Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us once
again on Did You Know, the ESCO HVAC podcast.
So we are spending some time at the 2025 Allied
Air DSR Technical Training Conference. And Colin
Murphy from Famous Supplies, join us. What's
going on? How are you doing? I'm doing. Thanks
for having me. Absolutely, man. This has been
a great conference. This is my first time here.
And it's a really, it's a really intimate group
of. Educators, right? Like everyone that I've
talked to is like, I just, I look forward to
this every year. I get to hang out with my friends.
Everyone's going through the same, you know,
the same technical support calls, the same training.
We're all going through a bunch of stuff at the
same time. And everyone is really very, a lot
of camaraderie, very comfortable with each other.
Yeah, I think especially this year because of
the amount of change that we've had really over
the last two years. But especially this year
when you add in everything that's, you know,
with the new refrigerant and the transition and
RDS controls and on and on and on and not being
able to get refrigerants. So, you know, we've
all we're all kind of like on the same team right
now, especially tech guys in general. Yeah. You
know, we really, you know, I've never. seen it
really adversarial when it comes to tech guys
like we always want have pretty good relationships
you know what i mean even at competing distributors
right uh because you know at the end of the day
we're really trying to make sure that we have
the best dealer experience and homeowner experience
with the products so yeah but it's been a challenge
this year there's no doubt Yeah, well, I mean,
talk about some of these challenges because there
might be other DSRs out there that are listening
or even just members of, you know, the HVACR
industry going, all right, I hear like there's
lots of things going on, but like what's the
biggest struggles? Like I wouldn't say struggles.
What have been the things that we've needed to
learn the most about this year? Right. Well,
I think that we've really focused on as a distributor
at Famous. We focused on coil matchups, really
trying to communicate to our employees on a regular
basis what the transition is looking like with
the allied products. And it started with the
outdoor units, the heat pumps and the air conditioners,
coil changes. Obviously, we have RDS controls,
but now we have the new RDS furnaces coming.
So we're trying to integrate those into the business
now. And it's a challenge, but, you know, really.
At the beginning of the year, we said we can't
over -communicate anything this year. No, this
is the year of communication. And we really have,
on a regular basis, communicated with all of
our employees, especially on the tech side. We've
also done more training this year than we've
really ever done at Famous Supply. We've done
a ton with the new refrigerant, ranging from
installation all the way to just standard. our
454b classes etc so you know it's been and it's
been a challenge because we at one point we had
a lot of 410a products still um which we sold
out of a lot quicker than what we thought we
were going to yeah um and then you know had to
make that transition at a time when we couldn't
get the refrigerant itself so it was uh it was
really a difficult time but i feel like we're
around in third base right now um we're heading
towards the finish line um and i really feel
that next year we should be able to get off on
a good footing uh you know moving into the new
refrigerant and and really focusing on pushing
more of our higher end products that that we've
been uh you know We haven't had a lot of time
focusing on that this year. I agree. It's been
more of just how are we going to make sure we
make this transition as easy as possible for
our customers and for our associates. That's
been the biggest ones. A lot of people forget
the refrigerant transition is what we talk about
a lot, but the technology transition is just
as significant, if not more so. Almost all of
our calls today involve RDS controls as far as
wiring them. How do they get that to integrate
with somebody else's furnace? On and on and on
and on. But I really feel that our tech guys,
our guys, our DSRs at Famous, they've done a
really good job. We've all been working really
hard to navigate through this whole thing. I
really feel good about where we're at today.
You know, I wouldn't have said that about three
months ago. As soon as we ran out of R410A equipment,
it was a struggle. But I think everybody was
in the same boat. So I really do feel positive
at this point for next year. Yeah, I've seen
a lot with the R410A equipment because, you know,
as a distributor, you know that it really needs
to be gone by the end of the year. Right. Yes.
Everyone kind of understood that. Right. The
TTR technology transition rule kind of dictates
like how how how systems packages. Right. We
really got to look at what type of equipment
it is. But inevitably, like our split systems
really need to be out of inventory by the end
of the year. Unless it's things like warranty
replacement or individual components. Right.
You know, because we can't install those systems.
Right. Right. January 26. Yeah. And so. there
was this whole okay i need to have some stock
to get through but i don't know how long yeah
and then maybe at some point you know i've seen
some distributors you know start discounting
their 410 recently trying to get rid of it but
like you said a lot of distributors actually
just flat out ran out of it right uh in the process
and so there were some compound things this year
but i'm with you we're really moving out of that
that initial phase that initial shock phase and
everyone's starting to get more comfortable supplies
are really starting to do well and so now we
can start focusing on the next topic of conversation
which i think is going to be the whole technology
transition because even here at the conference
like what we're seeing a lot of here is high
performing heat pumps right and trying to kind
of break that stigma of cold climate right you
know we end up getting those specifications from
energy star of you know what is a cold climate
specification well it's not really a piece of
equipment that's designed with a specific task
it's just a high performing piece of equipment
that meets that meets these criteria correct
right so we're going to see a lot of very high
performing heat pumps moving into pretty much
all sectors of the industry. Right. And it's
been transitioning that way over the last five
years. I will tell you, um, the, the one issue
that we have right now, you know, involving the
high end heat pumps is that, you know, we've
really focused on tax credits up till this point,
but those are going away January 1st. So that's,
that's not a good thing for us because we've
done, You know, we've really focused on that
part of it to help push that higher end product.
It really has been. So we're going to see what
that mix does. I would expect the mix is going
to go down, but we're going to continue to try
to push the high end products. But the markets
kind of dictate, you know, what happens. So I
definitely, you know, I'm disappointed. in that
part of the legislation. I agree. Especially
when I've spent a good part of my career, really
getting our customers comfortable with it, comfortable
and to be able to offer it and talk about it.
Yeah. So, and I understand a lot of people have
never talked about it. They didn't want to get
involved with it, but there was really an opportunity
to sell high end heat pumps. So I still think
that heat pumps are going to continue to be an
important, an important part. of everything moving
forward. But I think some of the higher end products,
because of the price tag, we were able to offset
some of that with tax credits in the past. We
may see a mix down next year, but we'll have
to wait and see at this point. We're going to
try to come up with some different ways to incentivize
the higher end products because they really do
make a difference when you install them. You
know, it's it's not like it's a bait and switch
at a car dealer or something. Absolutely not.
This is a legit thing that saves a ton of money
on a system, especially when you get a 10 year
warranty. Yeah. And you can talk about all those
things. So I think that's probably the direction
we're going to focus on is, you know, how much
money can you save? How much electric can you
save? Like and, you know, comfort, et cetera.
So. I've seen contractors in the Midwest actually
change their complete business model based on
the performance of heat pumps, today's heat pumps.
Contractors that have used it as a training opportunity
to teach their entire installation and service
team, this is the type of equipment we want to
be installing. We want to be known for doing
these performance systems and performance installations.
And they've already committed that no matter
what happens with rebates, their business model
is to stay. We are this professional company
because we can do this and we can do this right.
It's such a good thing for the customer. Yeah,
I don't disagree with that. I really feel that
the heat pumps today, and a lot of times you
run into what I call old school guys, new school
guys. Old school guys had a really bad taste
in their mouth from heat pumps from 34 years
ago. Oh, yeah. No, let's say late 90s, early
2000s. you know, the amount of heat production
you got out of a heat pump wasn't very good.
And literally there was tons of defrost issues,
all kinds of things were happening. Right. But
fast forward to today, like it's a different
machine than it was. And the people who have
an understanding of how these systems work really
are on the next level of technical acumen. And,
you know, I can tell you that. You know, it's
really an impressive thing when you can get a
dealer to buy into the heat pump story and then
they can start installing them and they start
understanding them, especially in dual fuel applications
and a lot of dual fuel. Now, where I'm from,
you know, I'm from the north. Right. So, you
know, we we get some colder temperatures for
sure in Ohio. Oh, yeah. In the winter. But now
with the cold climate. You know, if we're talking
100 % capacity down to 17 degrees, that's pretty
impressive. 70 % capacity down to 5, that's really
impressive. You know, because I'll be honest,
the amount of days we get below 10, there's not
a lot. But there's some, depending on the winter.
But that 20, 15 to 35 degree temperature, we
definitely have, you know, a lot of. So we're
going to see how it goes. The technology in the
market today is really good. And I truly feel
that the techs, especially with the contractors
that have bought in with heat pumps and done
a lot of training, if you can learn how to troubleshoot
and work on a... high end heat pumps system in
today's market. It's definitely, you have a leg
up advantage, you know, on the, on the technical
side versus someone who is not offering them,
doesn't want to talk about them, doesn't, they're
going to do a 95 % single stage furnace and a
13 seer air. So, you know, and we've seen a shift
in dealer, you know, professionalism and technical
acumen over the last couple of years without
question. It's that time in our industry. I was
an automotive nerd by the same time I was an
HVAC nerd. I loved it because they were so similar.
I love using that analogy of being like an automotive
service shop in the early 1990s. You could be
really good at working on a carbureted engine
with a distributor, and you could work on just
about any manufacturer. It's like working on
a single stage or maybe even a two -stage piece
of equipment. You get to know one. and you know
all of them and you're comfortable. But then
something new comes along like fuel injection
and you go, it looks similar, but it's so different.
I don't want to work on that. Well, that's when
you had that separation. Either you're going
to be a successful company going forward or you're
not. So you end up learning two technologies
just to find that really the newer one is actually
a much more efficient, easier. version to work
on than what you used to you just have to be
willing to understand how that new one operates
and then fast forward a few years everything
yeah it's the ability to change and to understand
um you know it's it it really does remind i mean
you can definitely relate the car industry too
because you know my truck today has So many things
on it that are electronic. It's crazy, right?
It's no different than our HVAC system, especially
on the higher end products. Right. But, you know,
I really feel that, you know, the good thing
is that selling Armstrong Air, selling Concord,
you know, we've had really good success with
the quality over the years. That gives us even
more confidence. And we have a really good technical
team at Famous to help our customers. And we
feel that's really important now. We've actually
made investments on the tech side over the last
24 months. Wow. Significant investments because
we know all these things are coming. And the
equipment is going to continue to evolve into,
you know, high -end computerized systems. So
we really want to make sure that we're taking
care of our customer, you know, as good as possible
on the tech side. Yeah, because we don't know
what next month and next year is going to bring.
It's going to be something different. 100%. Yeah.
And, you know, even with the new refrigerants
moving forward, you know, we're going to have.
You know, there's still going to be a learning
curve. I went through the R22 to R410A. You know
what I mean? And there was all this stigma. All
this hype. Oh, it was hype. Like the refrigerants,
you know. Pressures, everything's going to blow
up. The pressures. Oh, yeah, all this stuff.
It's going to blow up in my van, blah, blah,
blah. So I think that, you know, but a lot of
it is just there was not a ton of knowledge on
it. You know what I mean? When that transition
happened. There wasn't the social media education
we have today. No, there wasn't. You didn't have
these podcasts to sit and listen to in between
jobs. Yeah, it's kind of funny. Like when I first
started selling heat pumps, I didn't even have
a cell phone. I had a pager and we'd stop at
a pay phone. But, you know, I think that I really
do feel that we're heading in the right direction,
in particular with Allied Products. you know
we and we get good support from them and and
i feel that they have a really good product which
which helps a lot you know and everything has
problems occasionally right but um you know we're
we're pretty lucky in the fact that that we do
sell the allied and that uh you know we really
do have pretty good luck with the equipment Yeah,
that's one thing that I've heard is a very common
theme here is everyone likes being a part of
Allied. They like the community. They love the
communication. They love that, you know, you're
here at a conference and you're working with
the people, you know, the design and engineer
and, you know, live with this equipment. And
they want to have feedback from their DSRs and
their contractors. There's this, like, you can
feel the continual evolution of products here.
And that's been a really cool thing to see. Yeah.
Yeah, it really is. You know, I have a lot of
good relationships with the people at Allied,
and it's really important, I feel, to have those
relationships as a distributor. Because there's
a lot of times when I need to make a phone call,
like, hey, we're having an issue with some of
this stuff. you know, to be able to call someone
and they react pretty quickly to what you're
trying to tell them. Right. Because, you know,
we try to, we don't report everything all the
time, you know what I mean? But when we see a
problem, you know, they know that, you know,
typically if we start reporting stuff that there's
an issue. So, but not only that, but the support
on the warranty side, everything, you know. It's
all relationships. So we have good relationships
with our dealers, and we also have good relationships
with Allied. And I think the whole chain is extremely
important. I really do. Because it trickles down,
you know what I mean? And, you know, we're able
to take care of our customers. I feel better
than our competitors because of our relationships
with them and with Allied. Very cool. So tell
me a little bit also about Famous and the training
and the tech support that you all do. Yeah, sure.
Famous. So 1933 was started by Hyman Blauschild.
And then, you know, after I don't know how many
years he turned it over to his son, Jay. Jay,
everybody in the industry knew Jay. Jay was like
a character. He was he was a really cool guy,
man. He was awesome. He passed away, I think,
three years ago. He was pretty old, but he came
to work every day until he was like 85, 86, and
he was awesome. But it's family -owned, still
in the Blauschild family. We've grown a lot.
I think we're up to 52 locations, I believe,
right now, primarily in Ohio, western Pennsylvania,
and West Virginia right now. You know, we sell
the Allied product everywhere. We've been selling
the Allied product since the 60s. It was in Bellevue,
Ohio. And then Lennox purchased them in, I think
it was the early 90s. And then it was moved down
to South Carolina. But we've had that relationship
for pretty much, I think, 75 or 80 years, maybe.
Yeah. And, you know, it's always been a good
relationship. And, you know, we... So we're primarily
in a gas furnace market, but we are doing a lot
more heat pumps in the north, especially, you
know, with, you know, we used to have a ton of
fuel oil. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and a lot
of those have been converting to all electric
heat pump systems and all electric. We also still
have a ton of LP. So on a lot of those systems
we're adding heat pumps on because of the cost
of the fuel. You betcha. You know, it's been,
and we actually have done over the last couple
of years, we've done a tremendous job, which
with the 18LX heat pump, which was the 18 sear
inverter, and now it's the 19V. So, you know,
that heat pump really has fit into a good portion
of our business. We're hoping that with the tax
credit going away, we can continue on that trajectory,
at least on the all electric things, systems,
I think we will. So that's in a training as far
as training goes. We have Famous University,
which is our technical training. We call it,
it's our college, right? And Famous has, like
I said, been around for, we're coming up on,
we're going to be coming up on 100 years in 2033.
And it's funny, they have plans. But one of the
things we're doing right now is we're building
a new training center on the east side of Cleveland.
It's going to be, it's called J -Tech because
of Jay. Oh, cool. And he loved training. It's
going to be a 25 ,000 -square -foot facility
with labs, and it's going to be a tremendous,
tremendous training facility in our industry
for our region. And Allied's going to have a
big room there with all their equipment in it
to train all of our dealers, and we're really
excited about it, extremely excited about it.
I think we're looking at opening up. January
2026 as of right now. So they've been working
on it for a while. Yeah, that's a big project.
It's huge. But, you know, typically we've done
all of our technical training either at dealer
shops or at our branches. All of our branches
have small classrooms, et cetera. But this is
going to be put on another level, especially
with the interactive. labs where we can actually
go in and troubleshoot equipment and look at
installations. It's going to be, it's going to
be really good and we're really excited about
it. Yeah, I'd say so. Where can we learn more
about famous supply? Famous supply .com. It's
a, it's a cool website. Like it, you know, famous
is a, it's, it's, it's pretty interesting. Like
the culture of our company, like the family being
family owned and as old as it is. And. You know,
and all the relationships are old, you know what
I mean? With Allied and all of our, a lot of
our other manufacturers that we deal with. Sure.
So, you know, when you have long -term relationships
like that, it's, it's kind of nice to be able
to, you know, rely on that. And we don't switch
manufacturers very often. You know what I mean?
We really try to, you know. You know, especially
with Allied, though, their products are really
good and they do focus on quality, whereas some
may not focus as much. So I've heard that word
quality a lot while I'm here. Yeah. Well, you
can tell like when you're a service technician
or a tech guy, when you open a piece of equipment
and you look at it and you start going through
it, you can tell really quickly. Let me touch
it. Let me feel it. 100 percent. And the quality,
how they do things, it's noticeable and it does
make a difference. I really feel that, especially
in today's market. Very good. Cool, man. Well,
I really appreciate you hanging out with us today.
Yeah, it was good, man. I appreciate it. And
go Browns, right? No, I'm just kidding. We're
going to win a game this year, I think. So there
you go. All right. We'll appreciate that. All
right. Thanks.