WEBVTT 00:00:04.519 --> 00:00:07.219 Thank you so much for joining us on Did You Know, 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.300 the ESCO HVAC podcast. So today we're going to 00:00:11.300 --> 00:00:13.460 be spending some time with our friends at the 00:00:13.460 --> 00:00:17.920 newly organized Bosch Home Comfort Group. How 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:19.920 are you guys doing? Hey, doing great. Good morning. 00:00:19.960 --> 00:00:24.440 Great. Matt Schlegel and Jason Carter are joining 00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:27.480 us. We've had conversations before kind of based 00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:31.579 on the Johnson Controls platform. Now we have 00:00:31.579 --> 00:00:34.399 this amazing new organization that is going to 00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:38.979 be merging technologies. All of our friends from 00:00:38.979 --> 00:00:43.079 both sides are now going to be in one brand umbrella. 00:00:43.539 --> 00:00:45.859 And so there's so many things for us to talk 00:00:45.859 --> 00:00:47.799 about, so many products that are going to be 00:00:47.799 --> 00:00:53.619 coming to market. fact that we're really merging 00:00:53.619 --> 00:00:56.600 to bring technologies together. And one of the 00:00:56.600 --> 00:00:58.520 things that we've discussed quite a bit in the 00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:02.659 past is heat pumps and heat pumps, especially 00:01:02.659 --> 00:01:05.790 in rooftop units, commercial package units. And 00:01:05.790 --> 00:01:08.989 now we start looking at, well, what are some 00:01:08.989 --> 00:01:14.569 solutions to really merge markets, right? A big 00:01:14.569 --> 00:01:17.370 talk in the industry right now is dual fuel applications 00:01:17.370 --> 00:01:21.609 because it helps satisfy both sides of the aisle. 00:01:21.950 --> 00:01:25.430 Right. Because we've got a lot of I wouldn't 00:01:25.430 --> 00:01:27.730 call it controversy or debate. I just call it 00:01:27.730 --> 00:01:30.170 perspectives within the industry. Like we're 00:01:30.170 --> 00:01:34.489 all trying to get to a place where we can manage 00:01:34.489 --> 00:01:40.170 our energy consumption better. Right. And how 00:01:40.170 --> 00:01:42.230 do we do that? And I personally, I like the whole 00:01:42.230 --> 00:01:45.409 dual fuel applications. So let's talk about some 00:01:45.409 --> 00:01:48.109 solutions in the in the dual fuel market, especially 00:01:48.109 --> 00:01:52.689 when we get into the commercial side. Yeah, absolutely, 00:01:52.969 --> 00:01:55.349 Clifton. I think you hit the nail on the head. 00:01:55.870 --> 00:01:57.170 Controversial, maybe not the right decision, 00:01:57.310 --> 00:01:59.129 but everyone's got an opinion. Everyone's got 00:01:59.129 --> 00:02:01.189 kind of their viewpoint and what they want to 00:02:01.189 --> 00:02:04.069 see going forward. And I think one of the things 00:02:04.069 --> 00:02:07.209 we've really focused on is how can we provide 00:02:07.209 --> 00:02:09.750 solutions that we can give to our customers today 00:02:09.750 --> 00:02:13.349 instead of waiting for advanced development several 00:02:13.349 --> 00:02:15.210 years down the road? Obviously, that work is 00:02:15.210 --> 00:02:17.289 going to go on, too. But what can we get to our 00:02:17.289 --> 00:02:20.659 customers today? it may be more importantly what 00:02:20.659 --> 00:02:23.340 can we do that's going to be economically feasible 00:02:23.340 --> 00:02:25.340 so one of the things that's great with a dual 00:02:25.340 --> 00:02:27.039 fuel application is you're going to be seeing 00:02:27.790 --> 00:02:29.590 existing technology. You're going to be seeing 00:02:29.590 --> 00:02:31.409 the heat pumps that we use today, the furnaces 00:02:31.409 --> 00:02:34.449 that we use today just combined in a way that 00:02:34.449 --> 00:02:36.569 we haven't done before, which is going to be 00:02:36.569 --> 00:02:39.789 not just a solution to provide decarbonization, 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:42.990 provide better efficiency, provide more options 00:02:42.990 --> 00:02:45.050 in terms of how you're going to operate your 00:02:45.050 --> 00:02:47.409 unit, but it's going to do it, like I said, in 00:02:47.409 --> 00:02:50.349 an economically feasible way. That means that 00:02:50.349 --> 00:02:53.509 decarbonization is not going to be an expensive 00:02:53.509 --> 00:02:56.169 hurdle that even someone who's interested can't 00:02:56.169 --> 00:02:59.280 get over that hurdle. One of the really cool 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:01.879 things with dual fuel is when we start looking 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:05.360 at energy management, most people don't realize 00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:08.360 that in some locations, the electricity prices 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:12.080 fluctuates drastically throughout the day. And 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:15.659 so if we are actually looking at heating and 00:03:15.659 --> 00:03:18.060 cooling from an energy perspective, especially 00:03:18.060 --> 00:03:21.419 on the heating side, and we're trying to maximize 00:03:21.419 --> 00:03:23.500 our efficiency, a lot of times it's... looking 00:03:23.500 --> 00:03:25.699 at the utility cost for different times of the 00:03:25.699 --> 00:03:29.280 day. Especially if I'm way out west, I could 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:32.659 have gas that's more efficient during one part 00:03:32.659 --> 00:03:35.139 of the day and electricity that is more efficient 00:03:35.139 --> 00:03:37.400 at another part of the day. And having that flexibility 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:40.639 to go in between, it's a big move when we start 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:46.430 looking at energy management. Yeah, agreed, Clifton. 00:03:46.509 --> 00:03:49.550 You know, and so some of the things that us as 00:03:49.550 --> 00:03:53.370 manufacturers want to do is we want customers 00:03:53.370 --> 00:03:57.009 to feel comfortable with that and be able to 00:03:57.009 --> 00:04:02.409 switch as needed. So controls become a big piece 00:04:02.409 --> 00:04:06.789 of this so that you can switch seamlessly between 00:04:06.789 --> 00:04:12.009 heat pump. and gas when it makes sense so we 00:04:12.009 --> 00:04:15.509 set up the controls where you can do that and 00:04:15.509 --> 00:04:18.930 then also bringing in some tools that help you 00:04:18.930 --> 00:04:22.649 calculate that so you know so a customer can 00:04:22.649 --> 00:04:28.769 put in all right my utility is this much if it's 00:04:28.769 --> 00:04:31.569 natural gas or if it's electric, and you can 00:04:31.569 --> 00:04:35.149 kind of make those decisions so that you can 00:04:35.149 --> 00:04:38.750 run it the most efficiently as possible based 00:04:38.750 --> 00:04:42.129 on utilities. But then also, you know, you can 00:04:42.129 --> 00:04:45.089 look at, all right, if I have goals as far as 00:04:45.089 --> 00:04:48.290 decarbonization, I can look at that as well, 00:04:48.550 --> 00:04:52.410 which one makes the most sense. And then also 00:04:52.410 --> 00:04:55.389 from an efficiency standpoint, you definitely 00:04:55.389 --> 00:04:59.100 nailed it with. talking about the efficiencies 00:04:59.100 --> 00:05:01.000 there, because that's going to play a big role 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:05.620 too. As we make this transition into these heat 00:05:05.620 --> 00:05:09.779 pumps that can do colder climates, where are 00:05:09.779 --> 00:05:14.560 we running the most efficient? And that obviously 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:18.019 translates into how much it costs a customer 00:05:18.019 --> 00:05:22.379 to run that heat pump, or in this case, a dual 00:05:22.379 --> 00:05:25.980 fuel type of heat pump. Yeah, you know, when 00:05:25.980 --> 00:05:28.800 we look at like the driving forces behind these 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:31.240 transitions, there's a lot of things. You know, 00:05:31.259 --> 00:05:33.939 we've got refrigerant transitions. We've got 00:05:33.939 --> 00:05:36.779 regulatory transitions like through the technology 00:05:36.779 --> 00:05:41.920 transition rule. We've got compliance for, you 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:46.139 know, local codes and regulations. We have electric 00:05:46.139 --> 00:05:49.120 energy providers, the utilities that are looking 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:52.759 for better ways to manage, you know, energy utilization. 00:05:54.379 --> 00:05:57.560 and we start looking at that whole comfort thing, 00:05:57.779 --> 00:06:02.459 it really brings it into something that I've 00:06:02.459 --> 00:06:05.500 been trying to help our educators understand 00:06:05.500 --> 00:06:08.560 and especially contractors is that for a long 00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:12.040 time, we always use the word balance point as 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:17.000 that point at which the... The load on the structure 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:19.899 is not being met by the equipment, and so we'll 00:06:19.899 --> 00:06:22.519 change equipment to be able to meet that comfort. 00:06:22.779 --> 00:06:26.339 But as we move into a new age, there's another 00:06:26.339 --> 00:06:29.720 balance point that really needs to be discussed, 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.000 and it's that energy balance point. It's not 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:35.920 just about comfort anymore. It's about energy 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:39.360 consumption. Here in the United States, a lot 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:43.930 of homeowners struggle. with the algorithms and 00:06:43.930 --> 00:06:47.470 the calculations that are designed by equipment 00:06:47.470 --> 00:06:50.209 manufacturers abroad, because many of them are 00:06:50.209 --> 00:06:54.189 based on set points that can go a little bit 00:06:54.189 --> 00:06:56.879 more out of the... american comfort zone you 00:06:56.879 --> 00:06:58.579 know we like for things to be like one degree 00:06:58.579 --> 00:07:01.500 from set point right and a lot of places around 00:07:01.500 --> 00:07:03.860 the world will allow that to go you know two 00:07:03.860 --> 00:07:06.000 three four or five degrees away from set point 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:10.459 because of the energy right and so in america 00:07:10.459 --> 00:07:12.300 we haven't really looked at that but i think 00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:14.759 consumers are starting to be more aware of that 00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:18.139 and and i feel and i'm curious are you seeing 00:07:18.139 --> 00:07:20.720 more of a driving force for dual fuel coming 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:25.370 from the consumer as well So it's it's interesting. 00:07:26.089 --> 00:07:28.870 I think there are a couple of major driving forces 00:07:28.870 --> 00:07:30.730 when we put together a business case and we're 00:07:30.730 --> 00:07:32.110 trying to figure out who's going to use this, 00:07:32.149 --> 00:07:35.410 who wants it, who's really driving us. And in 00:07:35.410 --> 00:07:37.389 this case, really driving us from a date perspective 00:07:37.389 --> 00:07:40.769 to get it out as fast as possible. There are 00:07:40.769 --> 00:07:43.689 going to be two kind of mainstreams that pushed 00:07:43.689 --> 00:07:47.129 us. One is going to be in the consumer world. 00:07:48.449 --> 00:07:51.389 particular regions have specifically pushed us, 00:07:51.509 --> 00:07:54.350 and you alluded to it with utility companies, 00:07:54.649 --> 00:07:58.230 there are some rebates out there for heat pumps, 00:07:58.410 --> 00:08:01.930 for dual fuel heat pumps that are off the charts 00:08:01.930 --> 00:08:05.110 massive. In the Northeast, there's a couple of 00:08:05.110 --> 00:08:07.790 states that are going to have rebates, some going 00:08:07.790 --> 00:08:11.439 up to $2 ,500 per ton. of a rebate for this. 00:08:11.620 --> 00:08:14.439 So when you're looking at the unit and you're 00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:16.879 looking at a rebate of that size, it is very 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:18.680 large. And then if you go north of the border 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:21.360 into Canada as well, we have partners in Canada 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:23.279 that have been working with us very closely, 00:08:23.420 --> 00:08:26.860 really, really driving the need for dual fuel 00:08:26.860 --> 00:08:29.360 again, because of rebates and because of local 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:32.720 municipal requirements, pushing government buildings, 00:08:32.820 --> 00:08:36.139 pushing things to utilize heat pumps. And we 00:08:36.139 --> 00:08:38.000 know those climates today, the solution has to 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:40.240 be dual fuel because they're simply not a cold 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:42.600 climate rooftop today that can operate in the 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:44.440 northeast, that can operate north of the border 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:47.179 in Canada. And then the other driver, though, 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:49.259 which is very interesting and we're very active 00:08:49.259 --> 00:08:52.080 with is some of our national accounts. So we 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:54.320 have partners on the national account side. They 00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:57.039 have footprints across the country. They have 00:08:57.039 --> 00:08:59.480 their decarbonization goals, their energy goals. 00:08:59.860 --> 00:09:03.090 And we know the HVAC system overall. rooftop 00:09:03.090 --> 00:09:06.710 units play a big part in energy consumption and 00:09:06.710 --> 00:09:10.549 in emissions. And so for some of our national 00:09:10.549 --> 00:09:13.929 account partners, not necessarily the easiest 00:09:13.929 --> 00:09:16.970 way, but the biggest bang for their buck to reduce 00:09:16.970 --> 00:09:18.850 some of their carbon footprint, reduce their 00:09:18.850 --> 00:09:21.769 emissions, is to work with us, the manufacturer, 00:09:21.929 --> 00:09:24.470 the providers of HVAC, to make sure we give them 00:09:24.470 --> 00:09:26.730 solutions that are going to help decrease their 00:09:26.730 --> 00:09:29.950 footprint. So consumers are one part of it. Some 00:09:29.950 --> 00:09:33.889 of it is, again, the social side wanting to uh 00:09:33.889 --> 00:09:36.309 decrease their footprint some of it is the economics 00:09:36.309 --> 00:09:38.509 and just the rebates that are out there uh but 00:09:38.509 --> 00:09:40.610 then again a big push is from our national account 00:09:40.610 --> 00:09:43.330 partners and what they're looking for from corporate 00:09:43.330 --> 00:09:45.289 goals corporate synergy what they're looking 00:09:45.289 --> 00:09:49.899 at and how we play as partners with them Yes. 00:09:49.899 --> 00:09:51.720 On that corporate aspect, I guess I hadn't really 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:53.240 thought about that because, I mean, you have 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:56.179 some very, very large nationwide companies that 00:09:56.179 --> 00:09:59.220 are focusing on their carbon credits, their carbon 00:09:59.220 --> 00:10:04.200 footprint, goals as a company to reduce energy 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:08.100 consumption, to reduce their impact. And so they 00:10:08.100 --> 00:10:10.700 are starting to include that into their budget. 00:10:11.019 --> 00:10:14.620 You know, what can we do? And the HVAC system 00:10:14.620 --> 00:10:17.440 is such a large consumer that, you know, as that 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:20.779 when I was a contractor, a technician, you know, 00:10:20.779 --> 00:10:23.299 it always fathomed me that, you know, I would 00:10:23.299 --> 00:10:27.399 be on these large commercial projects and, you 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:30.120 know, some of these multifacility projects and 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:32.539 every package unit was, you know, gas heat with 00:10:32.539 --> 00:10:37.169 AC. Every one of them. And they do change out 00:10:37.169 --> 00:10:39.370 projects and they put in a gas heat with AC and 00:10:39.370 --> 00:10:42.409 you're looking at it going, you know, for not 00:10:42.409 --> 00:10:45.309 very much more money, this system could actually 00:10:45.309 --> 00:10:49.590 be running as a heat pump. And so it's nice to 00:10:49.590 --> 00:10:51.309 see that we're finally getting to that point 00:10:51.309 --> 00:10:54.710 where not just the consumer, but the corporate 00:10:54.710 --> 00:10:58.049 America is very comfortable with transitioning 00:10:58.049 --> 00:11:01.519 into heat pump technologies. And Clifton, I want 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:03.440 to mention, too, so you mentioned gas heat with 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:07.179 AC or AC with gas heat and change outs. And that's, 00:11:07.179 --> 00:11:10.559 I think, one area, too, where dual fuel is very 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:13.559 important, because when we start looking at replacements, 00:11:13.620 --> 00:11:15.879 we know the commercial rooftop market. I mean, 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:18.200 a vast majority of it is replacements. It's change 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:20.899 outs. And when you're replacing an AC with gas 00:11:20.899 --> 00:11:23.620 heat and you want to move to heat pumps, if you're 00:11:23.620 --> 00:11:25.259 in a climate where you need supplemental heating 00:11:25.259 --> 00:11:27.500 in the past, a heat pump with electric heat. 00:11:27.899 --> 00:11:29.799 you're looking at a pretty big infrastructure 00:11:29.799 --> 00:11:32.679 change on that building. You're looking at changing 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:36.059 out your wire sizes, changing out breakers, pretty 00:11:36.059 --> 00:11:38.519 much overhaul of the electrical because that 00:11:38.519 --> 00:11:42.039 heat pump with electric heat backup has such 00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:44.320 a higher requirement for your electrical load 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:47.139 that in the past, it really just wasn't feasible 00:11:47.139 --> 00:11:50.519 unless you wanted to. double or triple the cost 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:52.820 of your replacement because you're paying for 00:11:52.820 --> 00:11:54.419 upgrading all of your electrical systems and 00:11:54.419 --> 00:11:57.399 not just the rooftop unit itself. So I think 00:11:57.399 --> 00:11:59.399 that's one area, too, where some of our partners 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:01.879 have been very interested in dual fuel is it 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:04.600 allows them to bring heat pumps onto their roof 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:07.320 without having to go through those mass changes. 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:10.340 And when you look at some of the larger stores 00:12:10.340 --> 00:12:12.539 out there, I mean, the cost to change out your 00:12:12.539 --> 00:12:15.500 electric heat pump with electric heat backup 00:12:15.500 --> 00:12:20.490 and a double trip. the cost of your project, 00:12:20.789 --> 00:12:24.450 where with dual fuel, you can now not necessarily 00:12:24.450 --> 00:12:26.850 have to upgrade your electrical, but you get 00:12:26.850 --> 00:12:29.669 the benefits of the heat pump for, I'm not going 00:12:29.669 --> 00:12:32.210 to say a majority, but for a lot of the heating 00:12:32.210 --> 00:12:35.129 season where you're able to operate your heat 00:12:35.129 --> 00:12:38.929 pump. Yeah, I've seen that myself in the residential 00:12:38.929 --> 00:12:40.950 application. You know, just a couple of months 00:12:40.950 --> 00:12:43.730 back, I'd completed an installation for my own 00:12:43.730 --> 00:12:46.389 son, you know, purchased a purchased a home and 00:12:46.389 --> 00:12:49.350 had a older gas furnace with, you know, single 00:12:49.350 --> 00:12:52.570 stage gas furnace, single stage AC. And we actually 00:12:52.570 --> 00:12:56.590 went with a York two stage gas furnace, two stage 00:12:56.590 --> 00:13:00.470 heat pump. And what we're seeing on those analytics 00:13:00.470 --> 00:13:02.769 that both his, you know, of course, we're not 00:13:02.769 --> 00:13:04.990 into the gas season yet, but his electrical. 00:13:05.389 --> 00:13:08.889 assumption is fractional already. And, you know, 00:13:08.889 --> 00:13:10.590 it was a hundred amp service, you know, so it 00:13:10.590 --> 00:13:14.470 was a home built in the 1950s. And so we looked 00:13:14.470 --> 00:13:16.210 at, you know, what are your options? Can we go 00:13:16.210 --> 00:13:19.230 with a super high efficient heat pump with a 00:13:19.230 --> 00:13:21.730 little bit of electric resistance? Well, then 00:13:21.730 --> 00:13:23.090 we're going to have to upgrade the electrical 00:13:23.090 --> 00:13:25.549 panel as well as the electrical service to the 00:13:25.549 --> 00:13:29.269 structure versus our two stage that is really 00:13:29.269 --> 00:13:34.090 satisfied the demand for that. So I'm very anxious 00:13:34.090 --> 00:13:36.659 to see. what our two stage gas application does 00:13:36.659 --> 00:13:39.220 as we move into the winter. So we look at a commercial 00:13:39.220 --> 00:13:41.700 application. We're really doing the same thing, 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:44.440 right? We're looking at an existing single stage 00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:48.559 gas application and a single stage AC application. 00:13:49.139 --> 00:13:51.740 So what are some of the solutions when we start 00:13:51.740 --> 00:13:54.159 looking at those traditional system replacements 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:56.279 that were single stage heat, single stage cool? 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:04.929 Yeah, so it is. We've upgraded. Right. So we're 00:14:04.929 --> 00:14:08.889 no longer having to do the single stage, everything. 00:14:08.970 --> 00:14:13.929 And a lot of regulatory things in the regulatory 00:14:13.929 --> 00:14:18.309 initiatives have started to influence that a 00:14:18.309 --> 00:14:22.730 bit as well. As Matt said, as you said, rebates, 00:14:22.730 --> 00:14:26.049 utilities drive some of that. But then also, 00:14:26.289 --> 00:14:29.389 you know, from a regulatory standpoint, we've 00:14:29.389 --> 00:14:35.360 had. We've had... requirements where we've had 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:39.220 to do more staging of cooling. And then along 00:14:39.220 --> 00:14:42.000 with that, we've had to do more staging with 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:45.379 heating. And one of the exciting things I think 00:14:45.379 --> 00:14:48.960 that we can do now with, you know, on the heat 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:53.480 side, talking about single stage is you can do 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:58.240 multiple stages on heating, on natural gas heating, 00:14:58.419 --> 00:15:03.190 but then you can also do modulating. So talking 00:15:03.190 --> 00:15:08.090 about comfort, talking about how we keep occupants 00:15:08.090 --> 00:15:12.110 comfortable as we shift to heat pumps, that is 00:15:12.110 --> 00:15:14.889 one of the things that we can do very easily, 00:15:15.070 --> 00:15:19.230 but probably even more easily than looking at 00:15:19.230 --> 00:15:21.610 an electric heater that you're trying to do some 00:15:21.610 --> 00:15:25.090 kind of turndown with. You're able to do that 00:15:25.090 --> 00:15:32.460 a lot easier with natural gas. again just being 00:15:32.460 --> 00:15:36.620 able to to use the heat pump when it makes sense 00:15:36.620 --> 00:15:39.019 using the mechanical heating when it makes sense 00:15:39.019 --> 00:15:43.120 and then using the the gas when it makes sense 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:46.500 so you can pair them together gives you more 00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:50.639 stages gives you more flexibility and really 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:53.799 is going to allow you to to not be stuck in that 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:58.399 world of single stage cooling single stage heating 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:01.480 you know now you're going to be able to stage 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:06.399 and and modulate in ways that you've never been 00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:08.980 able to in the past and it's going to keep everyone 00:16:08.980 --> 00:16:11.279 more comfortable it's going to save you money 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:15.720 and uh yeah i mean it's it really have a lot 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:18.220 of uh different options there when it when it 00:16:18.220 --> 00:16:21.960 comes to that as opposed to in the past and and 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:27.039 really with with uh packaged rooftops it i i 00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:30.419 think that it's even an easier uh you know you 00:16:30.419 --> 00:16:32.700 were talking about the on the residential side 00:16:32.700 --> 00:16:36.240 which thank you for buying york i appreciate 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:42.159 that uh and uh but it it is just such an easy 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:45.980 uh change out even compared to residential you 00:16:45.980 --> 00:16:49.279 know you're you're able to upgrade um but you 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:51.720 don't have to go back and and look at refrigerant 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:55.980 piping uh you know and all those pieces you really 00:16:56.590 --> 00:16:59.990 have a package that we've done all the engineering. 00:17:00.529 --> 00:17:05.150 We've got all of it in a nice, neat package for 00:17:05.150 --> 00:17:09.210 you to put on the roof. And a lot of times we 00:17:09.210 --> 00:17:13.359 don't even have to go about. really messing with 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:16.200 the structure of the roof. We've got options 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:22.400 that allow you to replace existing units without 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:25.339 having to go with an adapter curb or rip out 00:17:25.339 --> 00:17:29.259 the existing roof curb that is there. And you're 00:17:29.259 --> 00:17:33.920 able just to really plug that unit in and take 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:37.289 the existing one that's... that's there, take 00:17:37.289 --> 00:17:40.569 it off, put the new one on without having to 00:17:40.569 --> 00:17:44.509 disturb the roof. And that can get really expensive 00:17:44.509 --> 00:17:48.390 and then and then upgrade it. So now you've got 00:17:48.390 --> 00:17:53.839 upgraded heating, upgraded Cooling. And as you 00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:57.859 said, you know, being able to do more with it 00:17:57.859 --> 00:18:00.059 than you were in the past where you're just stuck 00:18:00.059 --> 00:18:03.180 with this single stage gas, single stage cooling 00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:07.900 and really be able to make a difference for the 00:18:07.900 --> 00:18:12.859 owner, the customer in the long run for doing 00:18:12.859 --> 00:18:16.380 them a service. Yeah. You know, you're talking 00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:19.799 about. the sizing and having multiple stages 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.859 and capacities. You know, one of the things that 00:18:22.859 --> 00:18:26.960 was always of concern as a contractor when we 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:29.559 were looking at system design as well as system 00:18:29.559 --> 00:18:33.140 replacement is, you know, the common starting 00:18:33.140 --> 00:18:35.440 point for a package unit was in the five ton 00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:38.279 range. and there were many applications where 00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:41.640 i might need five ton on the coldest day but 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:44.900 majority of the time i'm not and so there are 00:18:44.900 --> 00:18:49.059 so many oversized package units out in the world 00:18:49.059 --> 00:18:52.680 right now that could really benefit from a multi 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:56.119 -stage cooling capability. And we've all been 00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:58.079 into those, you know, those buildings, those 00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:00.319 restaurants, those stores, when you walk in and, 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:03.599 you know, the air is just devastatingly cold 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:07.200 and you can hear it over everything in the room. 00:19:07.259 --> 00:19:09.240 And many times it was just because of the application. 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:13.539 There might not have been a, say, three ton component 00:19:13.539 --> 00:19:16.019 that had the gas heat capability that they needed. 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:18.359 So they went with the five ton with 100 ,000 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:22.519 or 120 ,000 BTUs. gas heat and it was just blasting 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:26.039 all the time, summer and winter versus now that 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:30.099 that business owner can actually have a quieter, 00:19:30.099 --> 00:19:32.960 more comfortable space by adding some stages 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:39.039 to that. Absolutely. Very cool. What types of 00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:42.460 capacities are we talking about? Like what type 00:19:42.460 --> 00:19:46.420 of range of sizes are available with dual fuel 00:19:46.420 --> 00:19:51.160 systems? Yeah. So the first product we've released 00:19:51.160 --> 00:19:54.079 with dual fuel, it's our pro platform. Historically 00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:56.039 under the York channel was predator, but, but, 00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:57.420 you know, we had a name change a couple of years 00:19:57.420 --> 00:19:59.920 ago. It's the pro platform. So the heat pumps, 00:19:59.980 --> 00:20:01.579 they are going to run from six and a half to 00:20:01.579 --> 00:20:04.440 12 and a half tons. And one of the great things. 00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:06.690 So, like I said before. It's our current heat 00:20:06.690 --> 00:20:08.730 pump design matched with our current furnace 00:20:08.730 --> 00:20:10.970 design. So all of the gas heat options that you 00:20:10.970 --> 00:20:13.690 have on the AC models today are going to be available 00:20:13.690 --> 00:20:16.190 there. So stainless steel options, all of the 00:20:16.190 --> 00:20:19.509 heat sizes in that 6 .5 to 12 .5 ton heat pump. 00:20:19.990 --> 00:20:22.349 And the one other thing, just while we're talking 00:20:22.349 --> 00:20:24.710 options added in, the other thing that we've 00:20:24.710 --> 00:20:28.009 added alongside of dual fuel is our hot gas reheat 00:20:28.009 --> 00:20:30.609 option. In the past, that's been consolidated 00:20:30.609 --> 00:20:33.609 only to AC models. But we're really wanting to 00:20:33.609 --> 00:20:36.559 open the door with heat pumps. broader application 00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:40.220 we see hot gas reheat kind of pick up and dehumidification 00:20:40.220 --> 00:20:43.099 pick up so we've made sure to introduce hot gas 00:20:43.099 --> 00:20:45.700 reheat in this as well with this release. So 00:20:45.700 --> 00:20:47.740 the pro platform is going to be six and a half 00:20:47.740 --> 00:20:51.180 to 12 and a half tons. And we do have plans to 00:20:51.180 --> 00:20:54.460 work on smaller tonnage equipment. It's not released 00:20:54.460 --> 00:20:56.660 yet. So we'll have to kind of put an asterisk 00:20:56.660 --> 00:20:59.279 by that and say it's coming, wait for it. But 00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:01.259 today, six and a half to 12 and a half tons under 00:21:01.259 --> 00:21:03.460 my product. And I can let Jason talk a little 00:21:03.460 --> 00:21:05.700 bit more about choice in the larger tonnage. 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:10.440 Sure. Yeah, thanks, Matt. So with the Choice 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:15.480 product, it is a product that ranges from 12 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:21.180 .5 tons to 25 tons in the heat pump realm. And 00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:25.420 so when we release it, it will have all of those 00:21:25.420 --> 00:21:30.359 tonnages up to 25 tons. And we were one of the 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:33.559 first manufacturers to come out with a 25 -ton 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:37.539 heat pump. had them out in the market. They've 00:21:37.539 --> 00:21:41.500 been run through the paces. And so now adding 00:21:41.500 --> 00:21:46.359 the gas option to those heat pumps is just an 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:50.839 added plus. And then also with our product launch, 00:21:51.140 --> 00:21:56.200 we will also have a direct drive option, which 00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:59.099 is going to allow us to control even better, 00:21:59.220 --> 00:22:05.299 make it more serviceable. And really, we were 00:22:05.299 --> 00:22:07.700 talking earlier about kind of the plug and play 00:22:07.700 --> 00:22:11.680 of packaged products. Having that direct drive 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:15.359 ECM motor is going to make that even better. 00:22:15.740 --> 00:22:19.700 fan and motor is going to make that even an easier 00:22:19.700 --> 00:22:23.900 type of installation and adjustment out there 00:22:23.900 --> 00:22:28.000 in the field so we're we're very excited about 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:32.779 that and to have that offering available yeah 00:22:32.779 --> 00:22:35.599 absolutely i love that combination where can 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.440 we learn more about both of these product lines 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:44.980 Yeah, absolutely. So we do have our public website. 00:22:45.059 --> 00:22:47.019 So depending on the brand you're looking at, 00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:50.920 York .com, Luxair .com, all of those are out 00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:54.839 there. The other area for contractors or customers 00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:57.619 that are using our product today, we have the 00:22:57.619 --> 00:22:59.960 solution navigator web page. And that's where 00:22:59.960 --> 00:23:01.799 they'll be able to find kind of the most detail. 00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.039 And you'll get some great information out there. 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:05.740 We've updated all of our technical literature, 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.710 our technical guides, installation manuals. All 00:23:08.710 --> 00:23:11.289 of that is going to have the specifics for dual 00:23:11.289 --> 00:23:14.690 fuel added into the heat pump literature. And 00:23:14.690 --> 00:23:17.269 there's one other tool that's out there today. 00:23:17.450 --> 00:23:20.809 It is an Excel spreadsheet, but we're expanding 00:23:20.809 --> 00:23:22.930 how it operates. But Jason alluded to it a little 00:23:22.930 --> 00:23:25.390 bit earlier. We're kind of calling it our dual 00:23:25.390 --> 00:23:28.710 fuel estimator. And it's basically a tool that 00:23:28.710 --> 00:23:31.490 we have where a customer can go in, where a potential 00:23:31.490 --> 00:23:34.170 customer can go in even and select the tonnage 00:23:34.170 --> 00:23:36.700 equipment they're looking at. and put in a little 00:23:36.700 --> 00:23:39.640 bit of information about their location so that 00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:42.200 we can pull the right heating and cooling data 00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:44.960 for their area. And this tool is actually going 00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:48.539 to run a comparison for an AC with gas heat, 00:23:48.619 --> 00:23:51.380 a heat pump with electric heat, and then now 00:23:51.380 --> 00:23:54.519 the dual fuel heat pump with gas heat and allow 00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:56.240 customers to put in information. You know, we 00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:58.619 talked about utility rates earlier. If they know 00:23:58.619 --> 00:24:00.640 their rate for their electric and their gas, 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:03.140 they can put their utility rate in. They can 00:24:03.140 --> 00:24:06.440 even, if they know the emissions for how their 00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:09.240 electricity is generated, they can put in emissions 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:12.579 data for their electricity and their gas. And 00:24:12.579 --> 00:24:14.980 that system is going to go through and that estimator 00:24:14.980 --> 00:24:17.859 is going to give them information on basically 00:24:17.859 --> 00:24:21.000 an estimated annual cost of utilities and the 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.759 estimated annual emissions associated with those 00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:25.799 three types of products. So it'll give you basically 00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:28.960 those two numbers for an AC with gas heat, heat 00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:31.319 pump with electric heat backup. And then the 00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:33.619 dual fuel heat pump. So you can just see what 00:24:33.619 --> 00:24:35.559 you can expect to both save in terms of utility 00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:38.579 costs and the emission reductions that you can 00:24:38.579 --> 00:24:41.960 expect with that dual fuel heat pump. And there's 00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:44.019 one other thing that you can plug into that calculator. 00:24:44.980 --> 00:24:47.980 You mentioned it earlier, the kind of buzzword 00:24:47.980 --> 00:24:50.279 around it. But the one thing that's new with 00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:52.779 our product with dual fuel in terms of the controls 00:24:52.779 --> 00:24:55.640 and setup is inputting the balance point. So 00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:57.980 a customer will go in when they install that 00:24:57.980 --> 00:25:00.619 unit. The one thing that's new is inserting that 00:25:00.619 --> 00:25:03.900 balance point. So it's basically the outdoor 00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:06.259 air temperature at which you want the unit to 00:25:06.259 --> 00:25:09.619 switch from heat pump heating to gas heat. It 00:25:09.619 --> 00:25:11.900 defaults to 40 degrees, but we allow a range. 00:25:12.019 --> 00:25:15.319 You talked about, you know, especially from foreign 00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:17.700 manufactured products here in the U .S., we may 00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:19.799 be a little uncomfortable with the range because 00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:22.500 they allow a little more discomfort than we might 00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:24.740 typically see here. We've opened up the range 00:25:24.740 --> 00:25:26.859 here. So that balance point can be set anywhere 00:25:26.859 --> 00:25:30.180 from zero degrees Fahrenheit to 65 degrees Fahrenheit. 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:34.180 Obviously, the cooler you set it, the longer 00:25:34.180 --> 00:25:36.059 you're going to operate your heat pump. But again, 00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:37.619 that's just the temperature. Let's say you set 00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:39.599 it to 32 degrees. Nice, easy number to pick. 00:25:39.940 --> 00:25:42.400 If the outdoor air is above 32 degrees, you're 00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:44.519 running your heat pump as a heat pump. Once you 00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:47.819 hit 32 degrees or below, it switches to gas heat. 00:25:48.619 --> 00:25:50.500 The reason I bring that up when talking about 00:25:50.500 --> 00:25:53.380 the tool. So in the tool, you can set the balance 00:25:53.380 --> 00:25:55.829 point that you want to use. And that will actually 00:25:55.829 --> 00:25:57.809 give you the calculations based on that balance 00:25:57.809 --> 00:26:01.009 point. So our customers can use it both to compare 00:26:01.009 --> 00:26:03.210 the three different categories of units, but 00:26:03.210 --> 00:26:04.670 they can also use it if they've already made 00:26:04.670 --> 00:26:06.289 the decision they're going to purchase a dual 00:26:06.289 --> 00:26:08.650 fuel unit, but they want to look at the impact 00:26:08.650 --> 00:26:11.130 of that balance point. They can use the tool 00:26:11.130 --> 00:26:13.650 to test different balance points, see what it 00:26:13.650 --> 00:26:15.410 does for their emissions, see what it does for 00:26:15.410 --> 00:26:18.069 the utility costs, and hopefully help to drive 00:26:18.069 --> 00:26:20.420 the decision a little bit. the one piece it doesn't 00:26:20.420 --> 00:26:21.799 do is it doesn't tell you how comfortable you're 00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:23.500 going to be in the space obviously so that's 00:26:23.500 --> 00:26:25.599 the the kind of human factor they have to decide 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:28.019 for themselves but it will give them kind of 00:26:28.019 --> 00:26:30.059 the hard numbers the utility cost associated 00:26:30.059 --> 00:26:32.579 with it and the emissions associated with it 00:26:32.579 --> 00:26:34.200 at those different temperatures. Yeah. And that's 00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:35.839 a lot of great information that I know is going 00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:37.759 to be going into the design of buildings going 00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:40.660 forward because so many building engineers are 00:26:40.660 --> 00:26:43.079 looking for those specifications. It's going 00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:46.960 to be a more common requirement going forward 00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:48.339 is understanding what those emissions levels 00:26:48.339 --> 00:26:51.990 are. Awesome. Well, gentlemen, I really appreciate 00:26:51.990 --> 00:26:53.730 you joining us today. I'm grateful that you're 00:26:53.730 --> 00:26:56.349 keeping us up to date with the changes in dual 00:26:56.349 --> 00:26:59.089 fuel RTUs, and I look forward to catching one 00:26:59.089 --> 00:27:01.750 out in the wild in the near future. Absolutely, 00:27:01.910 --> 00:27:03.509 Clifton. Great to talk to you. Thank you so much 00:27:03.509 --> 00:27:04.069 for having us on.