WEBVTT 00:00:05.070 --> 00:00:06.769 All right, everyone. Thank you for joining us 00:00:06.769 --> 00:00:10.390 again on Did You Know, the ESCO HVAC podcast. 00:00:10.810 --> 00:00:13.949 This episode brought to you by Hudson Technologies. 00:00:14.470 --> 00:00:16.910 Joining us today, we have Kate Houghton from Hudson. 00:00:16.989 --> 00:00:19.289 How are you doing? Doing fabulous. Thank you 00:00:19.289 --> 00:00:21.730 so much for having me back once again. I absolutely 00:00:21.730 --> 00:00:23.789 love the conversations we get into because it's 00:00:23.789 --> 00:00:28.339 such a very fast changing industry. And when 00:00:28.339 --> 00:00:30.039 we start talking about like refrigerants and 00:00:30.039 --> 00:00:33.740 regulations in particular, man, it's like a whirlwind. 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:38.079 And if you're not partnered with the right professionals 00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:40.659 in the industry and getting that firsthand information, 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:43.039 you might think you know what's going on and 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:46.479 you could be months behind. Yeah, you're really 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:49.280 right. I mean, the pace at which things are changing 00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:52.219 and happening and legislation that starts to 00:00:52.219 --> 00:00:54.439 happen and gets changed and issued and gets pulled 00:00:54.439 --> 00:00:57.320 back, it's just kind of a full time. time job 00:00:57.320 --> 00:00:59.600 to really to pay attention to it and so that's 00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:00.880 one of the things that i love about our chats 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:02.960 is we try to help people with that that's exactly 00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:05.260 it so let's think about some things that have 00:01:05.260 --> 00:01:07.319 changed recently that people should be aware 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:10.859 of one that i've been getting a lot of and and 00:01:10.859 --> 00:01:13.780 it's it's like okay i got i'll be happy to talk 00:01:13.780 --> 00:01:15.140 to you about this one it's going to take a little 00:01:15.140 --> 00:01:16.879 bit because we got to look some different aspects 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:20.579 of it they go okay so we're going to like roll 00:01:20.579 --> 00:01:22.439 back the A.I.M. Act and we're going to start using 00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:25.680 r410a and r22 again and new equipment right I'm 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:29.109 like Yeah, no. It's not going to happen. No, 00:01:29.150 --> 00:01:32.989 that's not really on the cards. There's certainly 00:01:32.989 --> 00:01:37.549 been a lot of, I don't know, hyperbole, if you 00:01:37.549 --> 00:01:40.310 will, about looking at different elements. So 00:01:40.310 --> 00:01:42.430 there was a CRA, which is a Congressional Review 00:01:42.430 --> 00:01:46.189 Act on subsection H, which is a legal process 00:01:46.189 --> 00:01:49.439 and incoming information could do. It was put 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:52.060 on the list, but as of two weeks ago, it's not 00:01:52.060 --> 00:01:54.280 on the list for the House to even start looking 00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:56.219 at and reviewing it. And so there's probably 00:01:56.219 --> 00:02:00.260 40 or 50 CRAs that are actively being worked, 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:02.459 and the AIM Act is not one of them. Oh, that's 00:02:02.459 --> 00:02:04.659 fantastic. So that's great news from that perspective, 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:06.760 absolutely. Yeah, because I wasn't even aware 00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:09.580 of that. So that's really, really, really good 00:02:09.580 --> 00:02:10.860 to know because there's a lot of people concerned 00:02:10.860 --> 00:02:13.319 about it. And I also tell them, too, that even 00:02:13.319 --> 00:02:15.879 if they did, like in the AIM Act, we're really 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:18.719 talking about the whole regulatory side. side 00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:20.979 of refrigerant management and leak rates, right? 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:24.080 We're not talking about getting rid of the refrigerants. 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:25.840 We're not talking about the technology transition 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:27.699 rule. We're really talking about those things 00:02:27.699 --> 00:02:30.280 that happened in those last 60 days that they 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:32.000 have the opportunity to go back and look at. 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:33.879 And the ones that would have been or potentially 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:35.879 would have been the most threatened would have 00:02:35.879 --> 00:02:39.530 been leak rates. regulations tracking. Yeah, 00:02:39.550 --> 00:02:41.669 absolutely. So it was at subsection H, which 00:02:41.669 --> 00:02:43.750 was the last, and it was really in the CRA by 00:02:43.750 --> 00:02:46.229 a number, the CRA period by just a number of 00:02:46.229 --> 00:02:49.090 days. It was really very close. So yes, the allocation 00:02:49.090 --> 00:02:52.840 system. solid yeah not not being nothing can 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:54.960 happen there the technology transition rule also 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:57.680 very solid um so it really was the subsection 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:00.120 h refrigerant management rule as i said it's 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:02.900 not a priority it's way it's not even on the 00:03:02.900 --> 00:03:04.680 list at this point to actually go through reviews 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:07.020 oh wow so really when we look at the grand scheme 00:03:07.020 --> 00:03:10.919 of things um even if it was to go through It 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:12.979 would be some changes, but it wouldn't be like 00:03:12.979 --> 00:03:16.659 this industry changing, you know, actions that 00:03:16.659 --> 00:03:19.020 people have been worried about, which that's 00:03:19.020 --> 00:03:20.840 why we do these podcasts to help. break that 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:24.340 fiction. Absolutely. So, you know, 454B, 32, 00:03:24.979 --> 00:03:28.379 513, 514, all of those new refrigerants that 00:03:28.379 --> 00:03:31.159 were marching forward with that, sunsetting the 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:33.520 new 410A equipment, it can still be installed 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:36.819 for the rest of the year. And 410A is not sunsetting. 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:39.360 You know, you and I have talked about the incredibly 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:42.379 large installed base that's around the country. 00:03:42.500 --> 00:03:45.840 So 410A as a refrigerant isn't going away. How 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:48.879 you get it, what it... source of it might be 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:51.199 different, but the refrigerant itself will be 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:53.280 here for 20 plus years to come. Yeah, exactly. 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:55.599 And so getting that refrigerant back is like 00:03:55.599 --> 00:03:58.199 the most important thing. I mean, we have to 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:01.000 reclaim. We have to be very responsible in getting 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.060 that refrigerant back so you can turn it into 00:04:03.060 --> 00:04:04.580 new refrigerant for us so we can put back in 00:04:04.580 --> 00:04:06.699 service. Absolutely. I mean, as you start to 00:04:06.699 --> 00:04:08.740 think about not just the AIM Act and the requirements 00:04:08.740 --> 00:04:10.680 for reclaimed refrigerant in certain sectors, 00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:12.979 you look at what's happened in California and 00:04:12.979 --> 00:04:14.979 their regulations starting January 1, you have 00:04:14.979 --> 00:04:17.339 to have reclaimed refrigerants. All state -owned 00:04:17.339 --> 00:04:19.300 buildings have to be serviced with reclaimed 00:04:19.300 --> 00:04:22.060 refrigerant. What happened in New York wasn't 00:04:22.060 --> 00:04:25.500 well organized. Boy, that's a whole conversation. 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:27.480 That's a podcast, just New York. That's a podcast 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:30.579 in itself, exactly. But New York is doing that, 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:32.240 which California has done, and they're going 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:34.629 to clean that up. Washington is looking at the 00:04:34.629 --> 00:04:37.290 same thing. So all of these regulations are going 00:04:37.290 --> 00:04:39.850 to add and continue to build. And the most important 00:04:39.850 --> 00:04:43.290 thing any one of us can do is recover every pound 00:04:43.290 --> 00:04:45.610 of refrigerant because every pound is valuable 00:04:45.610 --> 00:04:48.189 at this point. And we really have to reach those 00:04:48.189 --> 00:04:51.490 folks who are unaware of that importance and 00:04:51.490 --> 00:04:54.350 grow not just the amount of pounds that the folks 00:04:54.350 --> 00:04:55.990 reclaiming now are doing, recovering now are 00:04:55.990 --> 00:04:58.350 doing, but really reaching a larger audience 00:04:58.350 --> 00:05:00.069 and getting more participation. It's becoming 00:05:00.069 --> 00:05:02.639 so much more critical. You know, I thought I 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:05.000 had an understanding of what reclamation looked 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:06.899 like at a distributor level because I spent them. 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:10.480 quite a few years in that level where I had all 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:13.040 my contractors bringing me refrigerant. We had 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:15.899 lots of these open conversations. And I did a 00:05:15.899 --> 00:05:18.680 training class for a distributor. It's been about 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:21.660 four or five months ago. And it was a really 00:05:21.660 --> 00:05:23.660 good distributor. And it was in a state that 00:05:23.660 --> 00:05:25.800 I'd not been in before. And I was having this 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:28.459 discussion as part of my A2L training, right? 00:05:28.620 --> 00:05:30.939 This is what we have to do. This is how you're 00:05:30.939 --> 00:05:33.160 going to have service gas. So get that refrigerant 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:35.000 back. And I had a contractor raise his hand and 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:39.540 he said, Who buys our gas? Wow. And I went, whoa. 00:05:40.779 --> 00:05:42.819 And then I looked over at my distributor. I said, 00:05:42.939 --> 00:05:45.860 aren't you involved in reclamation? No, we don't 00:05:45.860 --> 00:05:50.620 have a program here. And I went, what? Yeah. 00:05:50.660 --> 00:05:53.620 So I hate to hear that because it really takes 00:05:53.620 --> 00:05:57.680 every piece of the chain. It's not just reclaimers 00:05:57.680 --> 00:05:59.540 such as Hudson who are going to solve the problem. 00:05:59.740 --> 00:06:03.459 It's not just contractors or technicians. It's 00:06:03.459 --> 00:06:06.480 distributors. It's OEMs. It's everybody throughout 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:09.259 that chain all really has to participate. And 00:06:09.259 --> 00:06:12.399 it starts with education. And then it goes to 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:14.720 facilitating, making it as easy as possible. 00:06:14.980 --> 00:06:17.160 And we all have a role to play. Yeah, we really 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:19.040 did. And that was what really made me think that 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:22.920 even as much as we talk about this, I don't think 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:24.980 we're talking enough about it yet. Yeah, you 00:06:24.980 --> 00:06:26.519 know, it's funny. I was talking to somebody at 00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:28.939 breakfast this morning and said, you know, you 00:06:28.939 --> 00:06:30.819 could argue there's about 500 ,000 technicians 00:06:30.819 --> 00:06:33.829 in the country as a number. I feel like maybe 00:06:33.829 --> 00:06:37.810 I've spoken to 75 ,000, but the 425 still need 00:06:37.810 --> 00:06:39.410 to hear the message. And they don't know. And 00:06:39.410 --> 00:06:40.949 they don't know that they don't know. Yeah. And 00:06:40.949 --> 00:06:43.769 because like many of you that are listening to 00:06:43.769 --> 00:06:46.069 us today, you've probably heard one of our other 00:06:46.069 --> 00:06:48.290 podcasts. So you at least know that something 00:06:48.290 --> 00:06:51.269 is going on. You know that there's a buzz in 00:06:51.269 --> 00:06:52.670 the air. And so you've been paying attention. 00:06:53.069 --> 00:06:55.829 And we're diving pretty deep into this. But think 00:06:55.829 --> 00:06:58.959 about all of your friends. that have never listened 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:01.040 to one of these podcasts that we've done. We've 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:02.980 done these for over a year, almost two years. 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:04.540 I think you and I have been podcasting for two 00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:06.839 years at least. Yeah, and then to think that 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:08.519 there's that many people who have never listened 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:12.259 to what we're helping you understand. So make 00:07:12.259 --> 00:07:15.279 sure when you're listening to this that you find 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:17.259 that one of your friends and go, did you know 00:07:17.259 --> 00:07:20.259 about this? Did you know? If not, we got a source. 00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:24.139 You can find out. No, I mean, absolutely, right? 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:26.279 Because, again, it comes back to it takes all 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:29.139 of us. We have to help educate everyone, and 00:07:29.139 --> 00:07:30.740 there's lots of ways to do that. There's lots 00:07:30.740 --> 00:07:33.620 of contracting networks. The folks that you know, 00:07:33.779 --> 00:07:38.660 as you say, do you know. Yeah. So for those that 00:07:38.660 --> 00:07:42.399 are listening, let's think of some maybe misperceptions 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:44.699 that they've heard within the industry. One. 00:07:45.539 --> 00:07:48.480 Definitely not going back to R410A. Nope. Not 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:50.600 going back to R22. Not at all. We're pushing 00:07:50.600 --> 00:07:55.259 forward. And so that being said, let's think 00:07:55.259 --> 00:07:58.100 about some of the misperceptions that maybe technicians 00:07:58.100 --> 00:08:04.660 have had in the past about the value, the importance 00:08:04.660 --> 00:08:09.639 of reclaiming. How it can affect service gas 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:12.120 long term. So when we look at things like the 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:14.600 HFC phase down that we're going through, right, 00:08:14.660 --> 00:08:17.560 that's for new refrigerants. And if we were to 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:20.519 look at that alone, we would say, well, we've 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:23.720 got about a decade of even our new refrigerants 00:08:23.720 --> 00:08:26.500 for residential, R32 and 454B, both being affected 00:08:26.500 --> 00:08:29.279 by the HFC phase down for newly manufactured 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:34.379 refrigerant. So on the service side, a technician. 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:38.720 could make all the difference in the world between 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:42.600 having service gas in 10 years and not. It's 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:45.440 absolutely right. So every single technician 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:48.460 out there holds the fate of every system owner 00:08:48.460 --> 00:08:50.539 in their hands. That's a really powerful way 00:08:50.539 --> 00:08:53.340 to think about it. Because if every individual 00:08:53.340 --> 00:08:56.500 technician standing at a unit doesn't make the 00:08:56.500 --> 00:08:59.649 choice to recover that refrigerant... and then 00:08:59.649 --> 00:09:02.470 send it through the reclamation process, then 00:09:02.470 --> 00:09:04.529 somewhere at some point there's going to be a 00:09:04.529 --> 00:09:06.830 system owner that needed that pound of refrigerant 00:09:06.830 --> 00:09:08.470 that can't get it. Yeah, that could have been 00:09:08.470 --> 00:09:11.980 their brother. My sister, grandma, aunt, uncle 00:09:11.980 --> 00:09:15.379 that is going to call them and go, hey, my contractor 00:09:15.379 --> 00:09:17.899 was out here and they said that they can't get 00:09:17.899 --> 00:09:20.120 any refrigerant to service my system. Do you 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:22.000 know anything about that or did you have anything 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:24.059 to do with that? Tell me about it because I'm 00:09:24.059 --> 00:09:25.480 going to bring you here to Christmas and we're 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:27.039 going to have a conversation about what you're 00:09:27.039 --> 00:09:28.960 doing. Yeah, and you're going to buy me a new 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:29.740 refrigeration system. And you're going to buy 00:09:29.740 --> 00:09:31.519 me something new because they wanted $1 ,000 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:33.500 a pound for this stuff. Why is it that high? 00:09:34.330 --> 00:09:37.769 Yeah. No, I mean, it really is that simple in 00:09:37.769 --> 00:09:40.169 some respects. I mean, if you think about, and 00:09:40.169 --> 00:09:43.330 I think we've talked before, there's still hundreds 00:09:43.330 --> 00:09:46.950 of thousands of pounds of CFCs circulating through 00:09:46.950 --> 00:09:50.110 the reclamation business to keep systems operating 00:09:50.110 --> 00:09:54.830 that haven't been manufactured since 1995. So 00:09:54.830 --> 00:09:58.309 contractors today are still able to install a 00:09:58.309 --> 00:10:01.429 residential 410A unit. That person buying the 00:10:01.429 --> 00:10:05.399 unit. wants to get 15 years from that unit's 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:08.360 lifetime. Oh, absolutely. And if we don't have 00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:10.860 that recovered gas and we're not doing the reclamation, 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:13.679 somewhere along the line, we will get to a point 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:18.019 where that practically brand new system may not 00:10:18.019 --> 00:10:19.539 be able to be serviced. Wouldn't that be a hard 00:10:19.539 --> 00:10:21.620 conversation to have? It would be a very hard 00:10:21.620 --> 00:10:24.419 conversation. And think forward, too. If you're 00:10:24.419 --> 00:10:27.039 a contractor or a technician that's not recovering, 00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:30.980 And all of these mandates for states or federal 00:10:30.980 --> 00:10:34.220 or lack of availability, and someone says, well... 00:10:34.900 --> 00:10:36.820 what refrigerant did you send me for recovery? 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:39.460 I can't sell you any reclaimed refrigerant because 00:10:39.460 --> 00:10:41.620 you didn't put it into the pool. So you can't 00:10:41.620 --> 00:10:43.899 take out of the pool. And I think it's something 00:10:43.899 --> 00:10:46.559 that it's in this phase down is very different 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:48.899 than previous. And I think it's probably going 00:10:48.899 --> 00:10:50.840 to be a reality for some folks if they don't 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:52.740 start to participate. It's already. So I've talked 00:10:52.740 --> 00:10:54.820 to one distributor that they are putting into 00:10:54.820 --> 00:10:58.039 plan their A2L disbursement to their contractors. 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:01.320 Those contractors are going to be required to 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:04.200 be reclaiming and returning refrigerant to be 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:07.419 on the supply list. Wow. Now that's a big statement. 00:11:07.740 --> 00:11:10.360 That's a huge statement, but props to them. Yeah. 00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:12.320 Right, of really tying the two things together. 00:11:12.580 --> 00:11:13.700 Yeah, because they're looking at it, they're 00:11:13.700 --> 00:11:16.480 going, okay, so we're going to have reduced supply 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:19.379 of this going forward. Who are we going to sell 00:11:19.379 --> 00:11:21.080 it to? It's not about we're going to have this 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:24.460 ample supply and we can sell all we want to everyone 00:11:24.460 --> 00:11:27.139 and continue making profit. No, it's about you're 00:11:27.139 --> 00:11:30.049 going to have an allocation. And it's going to 00:11:30.049 --> 00:11:32.529 have to be used appropriately. So what's the 00:11:32.529 --> 00:11:34.210 most appropriate use? Well, the most appropriate 00:11:34.210 --> 00:11:37.190 use is to get it in the hands of the most qualified 00:11:37.190 --> 00:11:40.370 contractors, the most responsible contractors 00:11:40.370 --> 00:11:43.149 that's going to be bringing reclaimed gas back 00:11:43.149 --> 00:11:46.970 so that I can work with Hudson to get it reclaimed. 00:11:46.970 --> 00:11:49.570 And I can bring that back into my own distribute 00:11:49.570 --> 00:11:52.850 network. And so the distributor is now looking 00:11:52.850 --> 00:11:56.450 at it as equity. That's an asset for them to 00:11:56.450 --> 00:11:58.450 make sure they're. getting that reclaimed gas 00:11:58.450 --> 00:12:02.370 through them yeah and and that concept of it 00:12:02.370 --> 00:12:04.789 being an asset applies all through the chain 00:12:04.789 --> 00:12:07.450 for the contractor for the technician for the 00:12:07.450 --> 00:12:09.889 wholesaler if everybody thinks about that pound 00:12:09.889 --> 00:12:12.269 of refrigerant as an asset we'll change the reclamation 00:12:12.269 --> 00:12:14.889 market overnight yeah No, I absolutely would. 00:12:15.009 --> 00:12:17.649 You know, I can reflect back on my days when 00:12:17.649 --> 00:12:21.049 I was in grocery refrigeration and we still had 00:12:21.049 --> 00:12:24.830 a lot of R22 medium temp racks, a lot of them. 00:12:25.070 --> 00:12:27.769 And then we had all of our R22 rooftop units 00:12:27.769 --> 00:12:30.690 that were coming down. And so it was required 00:12:30.690 --> 00:12:33.090 for us to document to the ounce the amount of 00:12:33.090 --> 00:12:35.350 refrigerant that was recovered out of those rooftops 00:12:35.350 --> 00:12:37.370 when they were repaired or when they went through 00:12:37.370 --> 00:12:39.029 the replacement. And then we would use companies 00:12:39.029 --> 00:12:42.549 that would come in. do the recovery for us but 00:12:42.549 --> 00:12:46.129 then we actually took that back and had it processed 00:12:46.129 --> 00:12:48.929 and brought it right back into our own internal 00:12:48.929 --> 00:12:52.070 storage and so we were actually creating our 00:12:52.070 --> 00:12:56.169 own circular environment of refrigerant and it 00:12:56.169 --> 00:12:58.570 didn't affect our supply very much because we 00:12:58.570 --> 00:13:01.350 had refrigerant around because we were repurposing 00:13:01.350 --> 00:13:03.710 it for all of the right reasons and so i started 00:13:03.710 --> 00:13:06.490 thinking about our industry and like if if we 00:13:06.490 --> 00:13:10.139 follow that model That's that's success. Absolutely. 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:13.120 Yeah. And absolutely. If we don't, it's failure. 00:13:13.340 --> 00:13:17.139 Yes. When could coal possibly, you know, a disaster 00:13:17.139 --> 00:13:21.679 as well? Yeah. All right. OK, so if we start 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:24.399 thinking about the technicians, we start thinking 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:26.399 about our contractors, our business owners and 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:29.740 our local distributors and in our equipment manufacturers, 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:34.120 we're all a part of this environment. And I think 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:37.820 it's important for everyone to know that there's 00:13:37.820 --> 00:13:42.320 going to be a time in the near future where reclaimed 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:45.639 gas is actually going to be going into new equipment 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:49.759 as requirements. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of an 00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:52.340 interesting new dynamic, right? A little bit 00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:54.700 of that happened with the California regulation 00:13:54.700 --> 00:14:00.039 for OEMs before the A2Ls came in. And so a number 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:02.860 of OEMs actually did put Reclaim into their brand 00:14:02.860 --> 00:14:06.100 new equipment. So the path has been forged already. 00:14:06.299 --> 00:14:11.919 But under subsection H, yes, fast forward a few 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:14.120 years and that's the path that we're heading 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:15.840 down is that Reclaim Refrigerant would actually 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:19.740 go into brand new equipment. before it gets commissioned. 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:22.100 Yeah. And you know, I had a conversation, which 00:14:22.100 --> 00:14:24.200 I thought was really intriguing when we were 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:26.860 talking about refrigerant. So when we're manufacturing 00:14:26.860 --> 00:14:30.360 something new, we know the ingredients that are 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:32.539 going into it. And so we put those ingredients 00:14:32.539 --> 00:14:34.899 into it and we package it up and we send it off, 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:37.539 right? That's how manufacturing works for, if 00:14:37.539 --> 00:14:40.019 I go buy a box of cereal, I know the ingredients 00:14:40.019 --> 00:14:42.220 that goes into that cereal, it gets packaged 00:14:42.220 --> 00:14:43.960 and it gets sent out. It doesn't mean that every 00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:48.240 box is sampled. right right yep exactly so when 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:51.820 we start talking about reclaimed refrigerant 00:14:51.820 --> 00:14:55.659 that's a whole different story it absolutely 00:14:55.659 --> 00:15:00.460 is and every every pound of every um reclaimed 00:15:00.460 --> 00:15:03.000 refrigerant is part of a batch and every batch 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:06.840 is tested against a hri 700 so every single element 00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:11.730 of that process is documented, is tested, is 00:15:11.730 --> 00:15:14.509 certified, has to be certified by an AHRI 700 00:15:14.509 --> 00:15:17.929 lab to be able to call it reclaimed refrigerant, 00:15:17.929 --> 00:15:21.590 and it has to meet AHRI 700. So as Hudson, we've 00:15:21.590 --> 00:15:24.769 invested in AHRI lab certification. We're not 00:15:24.769 --> 00:15:26.529 the only ones. There's a few companies that are 00:15:26.529 --> 00:15:29.970 out there. But as you're kind of saying, brand 00:15:29.970 --> 00:15:32.149 new production doesn't have to be AHRI certified. 00:15:33.049 --> 00:15:35.590 reclaimed does and you get that surety that you 00:15:35.590 --> 00:15:37.769 know exactly what you're getting for the purity 00:15:37.769 --> 00:15:41.730 the components and the acidity the moisture all 00:15:41.730 --> 00:15:44.149 of that is very well documented so when folks 00:15:44.149 --> 00:15:45.909 say well we're not really sure if we could use 00:15:45.909 --> 00:15:49.269 it in new equipment if you put a pound of reclaimed 00:15:49.269 --> 00:15:52.029 refrigerant next to a pound of virgin you couldn't 00:15:52.029 --> 00:15:53.830 tell the difference unless i told you which one 00:15:53.830 --> 00:15:56.509 was which yeah that's that's super important 00:15:56.509 --> 00:15:59.309 because then we started thinking okay Well, if 00:15:59.309 --> 00:16:00.629 it gets to the point where we're going to need 00:16:00.629 --> 00:16:02.830 some of our service gas for new equipment, that 00:16:02.830 --> 00:16:05.090 means our service gas gets even more scarce, 00:16:05.309 --> 00:16:08.950 which amplifies the importance for us to recover. 00:16:09.309 --> 00:16:13.730 Yeah. All roads are leading to recovery through 00:16:13.730 --> 00:16:16.129 reclamation will be critical for our industry. 00:16:18.149 --> 00:16:20.090 There's a lot of change going on right now. There 00:16:20.090 --> 00:16:22.690 really is. There really is. Keeps me up at night 00:16:22.690 --> 00:16:25.690 sometimes. I know it does. People are like, wow, 00:16:25.830 --> 00:16:27.960 what's changing this week? I'm like. Let's talk 00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:29.620 about what changed today. We'll start there. 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:33.480 Well, Kate, this is wonderful. I just, I always 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:35.820 love our conversations because it's so stimulating 00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:38.419 to see what's happening in our industry. And 00:16:38.419 --> 00:16:40.500 you're always bringing like the freshest perspective 00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:42.940 of what's going on in your side of the industry. 00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:46.759 And I encourage everyone to learn more about 00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:49.159 Hudson. Where can we learn about Hudson? So visit 00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:53.980 us on www .hudsontech .com. H -U -D -S -O -N 00:16:53.980 --> 00:16:57.250 -T -E -C -H. And my Australian accent comes right 00:16:57.250 --> 00:17:00.610 through on the HSA. Yeah, we've got a lot of 00:17:00.610 --> 00:17:03.470 information. And so sign up for our newsletter. 00:17:03.629 --> 00:17:05.390 We send a lot of information about regulation, 00:17:05.509 --> 00:17:07.410 how it's going to affect what's happening in 00:17:07.410 --> 00:17:10.430 the industry, talking about reclamation, talking 00:17:10.430 --> 00:17:13.509 about service and things like that. So a lot 00:17:13.509 --> 00:17:16.349 of stuff there. And thank you as always for having 00:17:16.349 --> 00:17:18.369 me on. I really enjoy it. I appreciate your time. 00:17:18.509 --> 00:17:18.930 Absolutely.