WEBVTT 00:00:04.589 --> 00:00:06.549 All right, everyone. Thank you for joining us 00:00:06.549 --> 00:00:10.509 once again on Did You Know? The ESCO HVAC Podcast. 00:00:10.910 --> 00:00:13.710 So today we're spending some time with Russ King 00:00:13.710 --> 00:00:20.350 from Quick Model, Quick Model 3D. Russ, tell 00:00:20.350 --> 00:00:25.100 me, do you even load calc, bro? why yes i do 00:00:25.100 --> 00:00:28.339 thank you for asking that i do like that slogan 00:00:28.339 --> 00:00:30.679 yeah that's it that's a sticker we've been giving 00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:33.539 away for a long time and it's very popular every 00:00:33.539 --> 00:00:35.679 trade show i go to if someone comes up and grabs 00:00:35.679 --> 00:00:37.259 i need some more of these i need some more of 00:00:37.259 --> 00:00:39.390 these They put them on their trucks and everything. 00:00:39.689 --> 00:00:42.149 And the question I always ask them is, well, 00:00:42.250 --> 00:00:44.229 do you? Yeah, do you? Or do you just want my 00:00:44.229 --> 00:00:45.549 sticker? Yeah, exactly. Because we've got to 00:00:45.549 --> 00:00:48.090 talk here. Yes, yes. And a lot of us say, well, 00:00:48.210 --> 00:00:50.670 you know, we mean to and we want to. And I say, 00:00:50.710 --> 00:00:53.329 come on, man. We're going to fix this. You can't 00:00:53.329 --> 00:00:55.049 harass other people unless you actually do it 00:00:55.049 --> 00:00:57.130 yourself. Exactly. Which we have to. We have 00:00:57.130 --> 00:00:59.929 to fix this in our industry. You know, low calculation 00:00:59.929 --> 00:01:03.250 has always been important. But I feel like as 00:01:03.250 --> 00:01:05.010 we're making these transitions, especially into 00:01:05.010 --> 00:01:08.049 inverter heat pumps, right, we are. doing energy 00:01:08.049 --> 00:01:11.069 efficiency upgrades so now we're changing the 00:01:11.069 --> 00:01:14.310 load of our structure we're looking at heat pumps 00:01:14.310 --> 00:01:18.230 as primary heating sources it's never been as 00:01:18.230 --> 00:01:21.129 important i think as it is right now to load 00:01:21.129 --> 00:01:27.590 calc on every job absolutely yeah the only exception 00:01:27.590 --> 00:01:29.989 i might allow somebody is if they're doing like 00:01:29.989 --> 00:01:32.329 an emergency like for like oh yeah yeah you know 00:01:32.329 --> 00:01:35.049 this went down we got to be up exactly yeah no 00:01:35.049 --> 00:01:36.750 problem there i have no issue with that i agree 00:01:36.750 --> 00:01:39.950 but you know so many of the jobs that are happening 00:01:39.950 --> 00:01:42.709 now they're either uh putting it bigger or smaller 00:01:42.709 --> 00:01:45.209 equipment yeah they have to justify that you 00:01:45.209 --> 00:01:47.629 can't just guess or if they're going from like 00:01:47.629 --> 00:01:49.709 a gas furnace to a heat pump you absolutely have 00:01:49.709 --> 00:01:53.370 to do that heat pumps are It's imperative that 00:01:53.370 --> 00:01:55.349 you do a load calc on a heat pump because, you 00:01:55.349 --> 00:01:56.670 know, you've only got one piece of equipment 00:01:56.670 --> 00:01:59.810 that has a fixed heating capacity and fixed cooling 00:01:59.810 --> 00:02:01.750 capacity. And you have to figure out which one 00:02:01.750 --> 00:02:04.049 of those you're going to prioritize. And you 00:02:04.049 --> 00:02:06.629 have to know the house in order to do that. Well, 00:02:06.769 --> 00:02:09.110 you can't just wing it. You know, gas furnaces 00:02:09.110 --> 00:02:12.129 were a dumb beast. You know, they put out heat 00:02:12.129 --> 00:02:14.069 and off they go. And then you could pick a different 00:02:14.069 --> 00:02:15.770 size air conditioner to match your cooling load. 00:02:15.870 --> 00:02:17.750 yeah you just can't do that anymore and it's 00:02:17.750 --> 00:02:20.689 really it's it's a big challenge but um i think 00:02:20.689 --> 00:02:22.770 um i think it's come a long ways you know since 00:02:22.770 --> 00:02:26.229 i first started doing load counts it would take 00:02:26.229 --> 00:02:28.590 you a couple hours to go out to a house and sketch 00:02:28.590 --> 00:02:30.289 it and measure the windows and all that easy 00:02:30.289 --> 00:02:32.689 oh my gosh the technology that's out there today 00:02:32.689 --> 00:02:35.009 there's lidar there's all kinds of stuff that's 00:02:35.009 --> 00:02:37.870 just it just it it's taken away all the excuses 00:02:37.870 --> 00:02:40.370 it really is yeah i agree i don't even know if 00:02:40.370 --> 00:02:41.909 you know because we talked about this like it's 00:02:41.909 --> 00:02:43.370 probably been two years ago when i was talking 00:02:43.370 --> 00:02:45.400 about working on this high performance heat pump 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:46.780 book that I was putting together with the Department 00:02:46.780 --> 00:02:48.740 of Energy. Actually, there's a copy of it over 00:02:48.740 --> 00:02:50.719 here. There's a section in there where I bring 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:53.419 up quick model, right? Yeah. And like, you know, 00:02:53.419 --> 00:02:56.979 what you do to do things right. And it's a requirement. 00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:59.379 It's not an option when we're doing things right. 00:02:59.460 --> 00:03:01.400 And when we're doing these high performance upgrades. 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:05.460 If you don't have a baseline, you're just throwing 00:03:05.460 --> 00:03:08.460 darts at a wall, hoping that you pick the right 00:03:08.460 --> 00:03:11.539 thing. Yeah, you may have heard me say this before, 00:03:11.620 --> 00:03:15.159 but I resorted to shaming contractors. You know, 00:03:15.180 --> 00:03:16.840 I've tried asking them, I've tried begging them, 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:18.520 I've tried bribing them. I'm going to point you 00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:20.860 out. Yes, and now I've resorted to shaming. What 00:03:20.860 --> 00:03:23.979 I say when I teach these load count classes is, 00:03:24.020 --> 00:03:26.979 you've heard the expression that carpenters use 00:03:26.979 --> 00:03:29.500 of measure twice, cut once, right? Yeah, well, 00:03:29.620 --> 00:03:31.439 they're professionals. That's what they have 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:33.379 to do. Well, I'm not a professional, so I'll 00:03:33.379 --> 00:03:35.599 measure once and I'll end up having to cut twice. 00:03:35.599 --> 00:03:37.400 I love chopped salt. I can just slide it down 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:40.039 and cut off another sliver. Exactly. And then 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:42.280 the short piece of wood goes into the pile for 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:44.020 later. That's a shim for the one I cut too short. 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:47.139 Exactly. But if you don't measure at all, if 00:03:47.139 --> 00:03:48.879 you're not measuring at all, which is exactly 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:50.379 what you're doing if you don't do a load calc, 00:03:50.379 --> 00:03:52.780 you're not measuring the house. Can you really 00:03:52.780 --> 00:03:57.590 call yourself a professional? It's just unprofessional 00:03:57.590 --> 00:04:00.289 to size a piece of equipment to a house without 00:04:00.289 --> 00:04:03.789 knowing the house. And I think contractors are 00:04:03.789 --> 00:04:06.430 just getting away with it too much. And I think 00:04:06.430 --> 00:04:09.229 it's going to come back and bite us all. We talk 00:04:09.229 --> 00:04:12.189 about the great heat pump revolt of 2027 when 00:04:12.189 --> 00:04:14.069 everyone's just pissed off and just starts throwing 00:04:14.069 --> 00:04:16.290 the heat pumps out in the garage. And the driveway 00:04:16.290 --> 00:04:18.649 wants their furnaces back. That makes us all 00:04:18.649 --> 00:04:21.500 look bad. And so we really need to nip it in 00:04:21.500 --> 00:04:23.500 the bud as much as we can. Yeah, I completely 00:04:23.500 --> 00:04:26.160 agree. I've actually been working on an initiative 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:31.500 that hasn't came to the industry yet in full 00:04:31.500 --> 00:04:35.980 opportunity, but it's very possible. So there's 00:04:35.980 --> 00:04:38.079 this project called Connected Commissioning that 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:40.699 I've been working with on. And it's a lot of 00:04:40.699 --> 00:04:42.300 manufacturers that are working with organizations 00:04:42.300 --> 00:04:46.379 like NEA and looking at ways to verify the actual 00:04:46.379 --> 00:04:48.420 performance of a heat pump once it's installed. 00:04:49.149 --> 00:04:51.910 And then in that conversation, we're like, hold 00:04:51.910 --> 00:04:55.990 on a second. Part of installation and connected 00:04:55.990 --> 00:04:58.709 commissioning really has to be, was it sized 00:04:58.709 --> 00:05:01.829 properly to begin with? Because you will never 00:05:01.829 --> 00:05:04.589 get the performance out of the system if it's 00:05:04.589 --> 00:05:08.209 not the right size and right application. It's 00:05:08.209 --> 00:05:12.250 crucial. Yes, absolutely. And then people say, 00:05:12.350 --> 00:05:15.399 well, why aren't you talking about ducts? I'm 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:18.279 a big fan of baby steps. Let's get him to do 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:21.300 load counts. But we can't not talk about ducts. 00:05:21.579 --> 00:05:24.519 If you put in a heat pump system, one of the 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:27.199 main things that affects the performance of the 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:29.300 evaporator coil and the whole refrigerant cycle 00:05:29.300 --> 00:05:32.980 is how much air and the humidity of the air and 00:05:32.980 --> 00:05:34.839 the latent remove and all the other stuff. So 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:36.639 there's really two big things that need to be 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:38.959 talked about. But if we can just get him to do 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:42.600 load counts first, we can deal with the ducts 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:46.899 eventually. You know, the worst statement I hear 00:05:46.899 --> 00:05:48.819 from contractors when we start talking about 00:05:48.819 --> 00:05:51.579 inverters, especially inverter heat pumps, is... 00:05:52.029 --> 00:05:54.269 I like an inverter because I can oversize it 00:05:54.269 --> 00:05:56.209 and it'll ramp down. Yes. And I hear that and 00:05:56.209 --> 00:05:59.589 I go, no, you're not the right person for this 00:05:59.589 --> 00:06:02.350 product. You're just not. A good friend of mine, 00:06:02.410 --> 00:06:05.069 Adam Muffich, his famous quote. Very good guy. 00:06:05.110 --> 00:06:08.149 His famous quote is that an oversized variable 00:06:08.149 --> 00:06:10.089 speed equipment is the world's most expensive 00:06:10.089 --> 00:06:12.569 single piece of equipment. You bet it is. Because 00:06:12.569 --> 00:06:14.550 it's always going to run on the bottom. It's 00:06:14.550 --> 00:06:16.250 always going to run on the low speed. It's crazy. 00:06:17.410 --> 00:06:19.990 So let's talk about solutions, right? Let's talk 00:06:19.990 --> 00:06:23.129 about ways that. all right now we address a problem 00:06:23.129 --> 00:06:26.069 now we find solutions and let's give some easy 00:06:26.069 --> 00:06:28.410 buttons for these yeah well the first one is 00:06:28.410 --> 00:06:30.029 training training training training hit them 00:06:30.029 --> 00:06:32.649 early hit them young you know get them used to 00:06:32.649 --> 00:06:35.970 it i you know i'm probably on 10 at least 10 00:06:35.970 --> 00:06:39.129 facebook groups yeah and i see these texts making 00:06:39.129 --> 00:06:42.870 comments about stuff that this they really shouldn't 00:06:42.870 --> 00:06:45.649 be it's unfortunate you know they might be amazing 00:06:45.649 --> 00:06:48.670 at brazing they may be awesome at fabricating 00:06:48.670 --> 00:06:50.529 sheet metal ducks yeah but then they make these 00:06:50.529 --> 00:06:52.829 comments about airflow or sizing equipment saying 00:06:52.829 --> 00:06:58.089 no no no no no we really yeah and it makes them 00:06:58.089 --> 00:07:00.449 look bad because they don't realize that there's 00:07:00.449 --> 00:07:02.829 other parts of the country that do things differently 00:07:02.829 --> 00:07:05.389 yeah and so they'll see a video of somebody doing 00:07:05.389 --> 00:07:07.290 something differently oh that's garbage that's 00:07:07.290 --> 00:07:09.639 crap that guy must be a hack i was like That's 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:11.439 how they do it in that way. There, that works 00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:16.019 great. Yeah, so we need to expose students to 00:07:16.019 --> 00:07:21.259 more variety and get them more used to. One of 00:07:21.259 --> 00:07:23.579 the big things, and I'm really starting to see 00:07:23.579 --> 00:07:26.920 it this year at the conference, is instructors 00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:29.709 walking up to me going, we've got to get. design 00:07:29.709 --> 00:07:32.529 into our curriculum back into the curriculum 00:07:32.529 --> 00:07:35.430 yeah and it's and it's been missing for so long 00:07:35.430 --> 00:07:38.370 you know and and design is a tool design you 00:07:38.370 --> 00:07:41.649 don't have to design systems to make you know 00:07:41.649 --> 00:07:44.589 to use that skill yeah it's a tool for diagnosing 00:07:44.589 --> 00:07:48.129 problems and and you know it's a great tool for 00:07:48.129 --> 00:07:49.889 diagnosing problems probably the one of the main 00:07:49.889 --> 00:07:51.970 tools for diagnosing comfort problems in a house 00:07:51.970 --> 00:07:53.970 yeah whereas you know everyone's like oh well 00:07:53.970 --> 00:07:56.230 let's you know let's let's check the charge you 00:07:56.230 --> 00:07:57.529 know let's check the amps and all this other 00:07:57.529 --> 00:08:00.160 stuff It's a design problem. It's oversized. 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:02.500 The ducts are undersized. They need to understand 00:08:02.500 --> 00:08:06.300 that. And so, yeah, I teach a class at a community 00:08:06.300 --> 00:08:13.959 college. And the division of the college is a 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:18.000 construction management program. And so the people 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:20.310 in my class, most of them are like. future general 00:08:20.310 --> 00:08:23.250 contractors, future framers, future, you know, 00:08:23.250 --> 00:08:24.889 those kinds of folks, but it's an introduction 00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:27.790 to residential HVAC. To have an idea. Yeah. Yeah. 00:08:27.829 --> 00:08:30.629 And so we cover, you know, HVAC and the last 00:08:30.629 --> 00:08:34.509 four classes, I exposed them to our software, 00:08:34.629 --> 00:08:37.590 to quick model software. Yeah. And at the end 00:08:37.590 --> 00:08:40.049 of that, I say, you know, you guys now know more 00:08:40.049 --> 00:08:43.210 about HVAC design than 90 % of HVAC contractors 00:08:43.210 --> 00:08:46.409 in the country. Wait a minute, but this is an 00:08:46.409 --> 00:08:50.009 introductory? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So. yeah we really 00:08:50.009 --> 00:08:53.470 need to get that that out there and um yeah i 00:08:53.470 --> 00:08:55.450 think we've been focusing too much on the hands 00:08:55.450 --> 00:08:58.230 -on stuff yeah which is great and and and that's 00:08:58.230 --> 00:09:00.830 my weakness is the hands -on stuff but i think 00:09:00.830 --> 00:09:03.490 we really need to focus more on the on the theory 00:09:03.490 --> 00:09:06.730 and the design you know why a house is a system 00:09:06.730 --> 00:09:09.429 and then probably i think the one thing that 00:09:09.429 --> 00:09:13.320 that is missed the most is that HVC is a two 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:15.340 -part equation. You've got your capacity of your 00:09:15.340 --> 00:09:17.759 equipment, but then the stuff that's missing 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:20.779 is the load of the house. Look at the house. 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:23.759 You can change the performance of the system 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:25.759 by changing the house and not even touching the 00:09:25.759 --> 00:09:28.549 system. Yes. So, yeah, there's a lot to be learned. 00:09:28.590 --> 00:09:30.169 And I think we're getting there, I think, slowly 00:09:30.169 --> 00:09:32.789 but surely. You know, we see a lot of initiatives 00:09:32.789 --> 00:09:36.870 for performance installations. And I'm so excited. 00:09:36.929 --> 00:09:39.029 Right. You know, because we've had programs, 00:09:39.190 --> 00:09:42.169 you know, like NCI that has just been preaching, 00:09:42.409 --> 00:09:45.809 you know, proper procedures forever. And now 00:09:45.809 --> 00:09:47.210 all of a sudden people are going, hey, did you 00:09:47.210 --> 00:09:49.389 know that there's things like NCI and there's 00:09:49.389 --> 00:09:51.309 like all these things out there that are like 00:09:51.309 --> 00:09:54.730 helping make performance like pretty again? Yeah. 00:09:54.750 --> 00:09:57.259 And we're like. yeah yeah you know everyone's 00:09:57.259 --> 00:10:00.519 been ringing this bell for a long time and now 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:03.919 it it's really needs to be mainstream right this 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:08.000 needs to be part of our professional development 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:12.179 you know understanding that things things operated 00:10:12.179 --> 00:10:16.059 differently 50 years ago some things operated 00:10:16.059 --> 00:10:19.460 very differently 10 years ago and so understanding 00:10:19.460 --> 00:10:22.360 the way that we move air and the way that we 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:25.980 move heat is becoming much more customizable. 00:10:26.620 --> 00:10:29.899 And so part of that is understanding how do we 00:10:29.899 --> 00:10:33.279 actually customize this to work properly? Right, 00:10:33.299 --> 00:10:36.899 right. And so there's so much in that understanding 00:10:36.899 --> 00:10:42.240 of all right in this structure. Where do I need, 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:43.539 because we're in the business of moving heat. 00:10:44.220 --> 00:10:47.019 That's what we all do. And so when I look at 00:10:47.019 --> 00:10:48.600 a structure and go, okay, I need to add or I 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:50.799 need to remove, where do I need to do that? Are 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:53.740 there places that I can improve that? And in 00:10:53.740 --> 00:10:58.559 that. Where did it actually all start from? Because 00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:01.220 this is not one structure. It's a bunch of small 00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:05.100 structures within a structure. And without doing 00:11:05.100 --> 00:11:08.720 an actual load calculation for what those environments, 00:11:08.919 --> 00:11:10.960 little mini environments need, and then put them 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:13.940 all together and then showing it, well, we don't 00:11:13.940 --> 00:11:16.039 actually have an understanding of the space that 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:18.419 we're trying to condition. Exactly, yeah. That's 00:11:18.419 --> 00:11:21.379 a big thing. And the other thing, too, to realize 00:11:21.379 --> 00:11:25.230 is... Again, baby steps. Focus on doing a load 00:11:25.230 --> 00:11:27.450 calc and understanding what that means. But when 00:11:27.450 --> 00:11:28.750 you're doing a load calc, you're really only 00:11:28.750 --> 00:11:32.350 focusing on two hours out of the entire year. 00:11:32.490 --> 00:11:34.629 It's the one hour that it's the summer temperature 00:11:34.629 --> 00:11:36.250 and it's the one hour that it's the winter temperature. 00:11:37.549 --> 00:11:39.190 Temperatures change throughout the day. And you 00:11:39.190 --> 00:11:41.129 need to realize that things go up and down and 00:11:41.129 --> 00:11:42.570 up and down. And as soon as you think you've 00:11:42.570 --> 00:11:44.149 got it pinned down, guess what? The temperature 00:11:44.149 --> 00:11:46.190 is going to change on you, which changes the 00:11:46.190 --> 00:11:48.730 entire dynamic of the house. But in a way that 00:11:48.730 --> 00:11:53.539 makes it. because one of my sayings is don't 00:11:53.539 --> 00:11:55.919 waste time splitting hairs when your job is to 00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:59.679 shave heads. And you just can't focus on little 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:03.220 tiny things. And another analogy is it's trying 00:12:03.220 --> 00:12:07.039 to measure a cloud with a tape measure. How do 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:08.539 you measure the length of a cloud with a tape 00:12:08.539 --> 00:12:12.039 measure? It's a very nebulous thing. It's a very 00:12:12.039 --> 00:12:16.480 squishy target. and then you throw in the variable 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:20.720 of occupant behavior you can have two identical 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:23.620 houses right next to each other with two different 00:12:23.620 --> 00:12:25.700 families and they're going to behave very differently 00:12:25.700 --> 00:12:28.320 and the hvac system is going to have to compensate 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:31.639 for that difference so so don't i try to tell 00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:34.279 people don't stress out on the specifics on the 00:12:34.279 --> 00:12:38.429 details get it close you know Understand the 00:12:38.429 --> 00:12:41.090 bounds of what you're talking about and just 00:12:41.090 --> 00:12:43.190 get inside this big circle that you're trying. 00:12:43.490 --> 00:12:45.669 It's huge buckets that we're trying to land in. 00:12:45.750 --> 00:12:47.929 It's not these little teeny tiny cups. It's a 00:12:47.929 --> 00:12:49.610 big bucket, but you've got to be in the right 00:12:49.610 --> 00:12:51.070 bucket. If you're not in the right bucket, you're 00:12:51.070 --> 00:12:54.289 way off. And so just doing simple load calcs, 00:12:54.309 --> 00:12:56.690 getting good airflow, it's not that difficult. 00:12:56.909 --> 00:13:00.590 It's not that difficult. Another pet peeve that 00:13:00.590 --> 00:13:02.289 I have found in the industry, only because I've 00:13:02.289 --> 00:13:05.509 experienced it myself. is our bulk manufacturing, 00:13:05.889 --> 00:13:09.970 right? And so during COVID, my wife and I, we 00:13:09.970 --> 00:13:12.610 bought a pretty nice house. It was very nice 00:13:12.610 --> 00:13:15.549 for us. You know, 3 ,200 square feet, random 00:13:15.549 --> 00:13:18.590 construction, reputable builder. And we move 00:13:18.590 --> 00:13:21.070 into it and we've got seven degrees difference 00:13:21.070 --> 00:13:23.029 between first floor and second floor, you know, 00:13:23.029 --> 00:13:26.809 summer and winter. I'm going, okay, so who designed? 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:32.120 And did you just use this shell design and through 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:34.340 your interior walls wherever you wanted it? And 00:13:34.340 --> 00:13:37.059 maybe you moved it up. Maybe you did not. And 00:13:37.059 --> 00:13:40.340 it ended up with a poorly operating system. Maybe 00:13:40.340 --> 00:13:43.330 in the right calculation. but it wasn't calculated 00:13:43.330 --> 00:13:46.870 in different sectors at all. It was just a shell 00:13:46.870 --> 00:13:50.629 calculation. And so as technicians and contractors, 00:13:50.809 --> 00:13:53.029 we may get called on this call and look at a 00:13:53.029 --> 00:13:55.230 new construction and go, oh, this should have 00:13:55.230 --> 00:13:58.730 been designed well, not realizing that maybe 00:13:58.730 --> 00:14:01.889 our biggest opportunity we have is to actually 00:14:01.889 --> 00:14:05.830 re -look at this structure to come up with our 00:14:05.830 --> 00:14:08.990 solution. Yeah. And the real challenge is, I'm 00:14:08.990 --> 00:14:10.570 guessing it's a two -story house. It's a two 00:14:10.570 --> 00:14:12.710 -story. Those ducts go into the first, where's 00:14:12.710 --> 00:14:14.690 the equipment? It's in the attic. Equipment's 00:14:14.690 --> 00:14:16.809 on the second floor. Of the attic, yeah. So you 00:14:16.809 --> 00:14:18.769 got to get - Ducted to the attic, yes. That was, 00:14:18.789 --> 00:14:21.690 what you're talking about was my world for, gosh, 00:14:21.830 --> 00:14:24.629 15 years. I ran two mechanical engineering departments 00:14:24.629 --> 00:14:27.759 that specialized in production homes. Yeah. And 00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:29.960 you can do an amazing design. In fact, the second 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:32.940 one that I worked for was a division of a structural 00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:35.820 engineering firm. And so they would give us the 00:14:35.820 --> 00:14:38.059 CAD files for the structural engineering that 00:14:38.059 --> 00:14:41.399 we could overlay our mechanical design to. Even 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:43.940 that did not solve all the problems. We still 00:14:43.940 --> 00:14:47.840 had. problems out in the field and so the whole 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:49.720 nature of production homes is we called it the 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:51.980 hair on fire design methodology is just like 00:14:51.980 --> 00:14:54.080 they're trying to cram these projects through 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:56.620 so fast and they're just there's so much coordination 00:14:56.620 --> 00:14:58.779 that's supposed to happen that doesn't right 00:14:58.779 --> 00:15:00.279 and then they get out into the field they're 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:03.230 just like well just There's a conflict. We needed 00:15:03.230 --> 00:15:04.809 an 8 -inch duct to go through here, but it won't 00:15:04.809 --> 00:15:07.450 fit. Let's put a 6. Yeah, exactly. Right into 00:15:07.450 --> 00:15:09.889 that. Yeah, and then you get your upstairs -downstairs 00:15:09.889 --> 00:15:13.269 balance issues. But if they would have taken, 00:15:13.350 --> 00:15:15.149 at least in our case, if they would have taken 00:15:15.149 --> 00:15:18.149 the engineer's duct layout. and they said okay 00:15:18.149 --> 00:15:22.350 let's make sure this duct fits to this room yeah 00:15:22.350 --> 00:15:23.929 you know you got to coordinate with their plumbing 00:15:23.929 --> 00:15:26.090 got to be electrical the framer's going to kill 00:15:26.090 --> 00:15:28.830 you no matter what yeah and and it's just it's 00:15:28.830 --> 00:15:32.009 a very difficult thing to do and and uh it's 00:15:32.009 --> 00:15:36.409 not the good news is the chances are your equipment 00:15:36.409 --> 00:15:39.570 is probably oversized And you could actually 00:15:39.570 --> 00:15:41.929 downsize the equipment, and then your ducts would 00:15:41.929 --> 00:15:45.110 be more appropriate to the size of the equipment. 00:15:45.149 --> 00:15:47.750 So there's ways you can fix those things. You 00:15:47.750 --> 00:15:49.570 can replace the registers on the first floor 00:15:49.570 --> 00:15:53.230 to get better airflow out of them. Yeah, that's 00:15:53.230 --> 00:15:56.830 just an ongoing problem. Even when they spend 00:15:56.830 --> 00:15:59.470 a lot of money to do a good design, there's no 00:15:59.470 --> 00:16:01.149 guarantee that's what's going to get installed. 00:16:01.370 --> 00:16:03.809 Exactly. And that's kind of the scenario. I look 00:16:03.809 --> 00:16:09.370 at it as no if. So I can say that after 23 calls 00:16:09.370 --> 00:16:12.909 under warranty, a six inch duck got replaced 00:16:12.909 --> 00:16:17.610 with an eight inch. Yeah. What a concept. And 00:16:17.610 --> 00:16:20.269 so I think you're right that that design is absolutely 00:16:20.269 --> 00:16:22.450 critical because that one little change that 00:16:22.450 --> 00:16:25.590 came off from that design. created a lot of havoc 00:16:25.590 --> 00:16:28.649 yeah um and so it probably had a correct design 00:16:28.649 --> 00:16:31.529 it just you're exactly right in that installation 00:16:31.529 --> 00:16:34.090 scenario something may have been changed on that 00:16:34.090 --> 00:16:36.149 spec model wall may have been shifted a little 00:16:36.149 --> 00:16:38.370 bit could have been a plumbing it who knows but 00:16:38.370 --> 00:16:41.490 for some reason uh an eight got replaced with 00:16:41.490 --> 00:16:45.490 a six and just the right place yeah and now now 00:16:45.490 --> 00:16:48.610 we're off yeah okay that's good that's so funny 00:16:48.610 --> 00:16:51.809 so it all comes back to the right design right 00:16:51.809 --> 00:16:54.580 yeah if something is designed properly and the 00:16:54.580 --> 00:16:56.539 equipment is select to match properly and the 00:16:56.539 --> 00:16:59.539 duct work is designed for the capability of it, 00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:02.759 you can produce a very, very comfortable system 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.740 that you've used data to arrive with. You've 00:17:05.740 --> 00:17:07.579 got to have a target to shoot for. You've got 00:17:07.579 --> 00:17:11.480 to know what you're striving for. I used to love 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:13.859 when the Warn team... A guy from the builder 00:17:13.859 --> 00:17:15.359 would call me and say, Russ, we've got a problem 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:17.839 on lot 47. I go, okay, well, what plan is it? 00:17:17.859 --> 00:17:20.019 What's a plan two? And they say, are there any 00:17:20.019 --> 00:17:21.980 other plan twos having the same problem? He goes, 00:17:21.980 --> 00:17:24.079 no, just this one. It's not a design problem. 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:25.779 Why don't you hop up there and I'll tell you 00:17:25.779 --> 00:17:28.500 what's supposed to be there. Yeah, exactly. I 00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:32.059 always had sort of a bet with the builders. I'd 00:17:32.059 --> 00:17:35.980 say, I'll fly down there on our dime all my time. 00:17:36.339 --> 00:17:38.799 And if there's a problem, if it's a design problem, 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:40.759 we will fix it. No questions asked. We'll pay 00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:43.480 for it, everything. But if it turns out that 00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:45.759 they didn't follow the plans or they did something 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:48.480 wrong or the house wasn't built correctly, I'm 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:51.299 sending you a bill for my time. And, you know, 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:53.359 my hotel and my meals and everything else. I 00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:56.079 never paid for one of those trips. I never paid 00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:57.940 for one of those trips. It was always something. 00:17:58.670 --> 00:18:00.430 It was always something. Either they just didn't 00:18:00.430 --> 00:18:03.930 follow the plans. Back in the early 2000s when 00:18:03.930 --> 00:18:05.829 they first started putting low -e windows in 00:18:05.829 --> 00:18:08.789 all the houses, the low -e window manufacturers 00:18:08.789 --> 00:18:11.390 couldn't keep up. And so they would just throw 00:18:11.390 --> 00:18:13.390 a few clear windows in the truck. They'd go, 00:18:13.430 --> 00:18:15.660 oh, they'll never know. And so they would install 00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:18.039 two or three clear windows in a house that has 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:21.440 all low E. And we always said invariably it was 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:23.539 the baby's room got the clear window, you know, 00:18:23.539 --> 00:18:26.359 the nursery. And that room wouldn't, especially 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:30.319 in Vegas. I've probably designed 60 subdivisions 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:34.200 here in Las Vegas between 1998 and 2005. Yeah. 00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:38.660 When this area was going crazy. And so we'd come 00:18:38.660 --> 00:18:40.269 down here, we had this little. It looked like 00:18:40.269 --> 00:18:41.789 a stud finder. We could put it on the window 00:18:41.789 --> 00:18:43.549 and press the button. Yeah, and calculate value. 00:18:43.849 --> 00:18:46.349 But guess what? This is a clear window. We did 00:18:46.349 --> 00:18:48.450 our load calcs for low E, and this is a clear 00:18:48.450 --> 00:18:51.299 window. So just, you know, all kinds of stuff. 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:53.240 Think about how much difference that would have 00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:56.420 made. Yeah. Or another common one, you see a 00:18:56.420 --> 00:18:57.900 lot of one -story houses where there's like a 00:18:57.900 --> 00:19:00.660 wing coming off the front of the house. That's 00:19:00.660 --> 00:19:03.079 two bedrooms. Well, the way they frame the roof, 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:05.059 there's what we call California framing on the 00:19:05.059 --> 00:19:07.640 roof, comes down and the sheathing comes down 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:09.720 and then they build the front off of it. But 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:11.440 they have to cut a hole through that sheathing 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:14.539 to get to the ceiling. Guess how many times they 00:19:14.539 --> 00:19:17.380 did not insulate those front two bedrooms. Oh, 00:19:17.380 --> 00:19:20.009 my gosh. They'd just seen a solid wall when they 00:19:20.009 --> 00:19:22.269 were insulating. Exactly, from the attic. Yeah, 00:19:22.349 --> 00:19:24.829 just stuff like that. So it's not always – you 00:19:24.829 --> 00:19:27.569 can have a good design, but if they don't build 00:19:27.569 --> 00:19:30.150 the house the way you assumed when you did the 00:19:30.150 --> 00:19:32.480 design, you can still have problems. was always 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:34.460 fun to find those kind of things i bet it is 00:19:34.460 --> 00:19:36.220 so let's talk about solutions like what's the 00:19:36.220 --> 00:19:39.220 easy button oh gosh yeah the easy button is is 00:19:39.220 --> 00:19:41.299 again training i always go back to training you 00:19:41.299 --> 00:19:44.680 just you have to expose the the noobs the new 00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:47.019 people coming into the industry that there are 00:19:47.019 --> 00:19:49.500 these things that they need to know about and 00:19:49.500 --> 00:19:51.759 sometimes you can just you know put it up to 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:54.119 them just yeah there's so much information on 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:56.380 youtube and stuff like that oh my gosh i've learned 00:19:56.380 --> 00:19:57.880 more from youtube than i learned from college 00:19:57.880 --> 00:20:00.940 i swear oh i i i learned how to build guitars 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:03.119 From watching YouTube videos for about a year 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:05.539 before I started building my guitar. I learned 00:20:05.539 --> 00:20:08.779 how to restore a sailboat. Exactly. Someone has 00:20:08.779 --> 00:20:10.259 figured some things out that I don't have to. 00:20:10.259 --> 00:20:12.700 Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, you could learn to 00:20:12.700 --> 00:20:15.420 do a really good load calc just by watching YouTube 00:20:15.420 --> 00:20:18.259 and some of the people that are donating their 00:20:18.259 --> 00:20:20.859 time, you know, and putting this stuff on YouTube 00:20:20.859 --> 00:20:23.740 and all these other opportunities. But yeah, 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:28.920 learn to do it. Practice it. For me, the biggest 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:31.420 feedback, and it's all about confidence too, 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:33.220 right? If you do a design, you want to have confidence 00:20:33.220 --> 00:20:36.099 in your design. If you're just like, if I did 00:20:36.099 --> 00:20:38.920 my taxes, I'm not quite sure if my taxes are 00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:40.619 correct. Did you hand those to the IRS? You're 00:20:40.619 --> 00:20:42.299 like, oh, that's okay. I hope that's right because 00:20:42.299 --> 00:20:43.799 I don't have any money in the bank if it's not. 00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:46.339 Right. But if you're really confident and you 00:20:46.339 --> 00:20:49.420 say, here's my taxes, I dare you to find something. 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:52.880 The same thing is with design. And the way you 00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:56.119 get that confidence. is by testing your designs 00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:59.220 after they've been installed. Because you make 00:20:59.220 --> 00:21:02.700 some assumptions. Static pressure, airflow, all 00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:07.079 these things, throw, noise, all these different 00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:10.000 things that you assume is going to happen. When 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:11.960 you actually go out and you measure that stuff 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:14.900 and it's dead on or even a little bit better 00:21:14.900 --> 00:21:17.339 than what you assumed, it's like, oh man, you 00:21:17.339 --> 00:21:19.819 start clicking and you start getting that confidence. 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:24.630 And then you start, you know, it just... It just 00:21:24.630 --> 00:21:27.069 makes you that much better of an HVAC person. 00:21:27.369 --> 00:21:30.130 You can help other people. You can teach other 00:21:30.130 --> 00:21:33.569 people. You become better at diagnosing other 00:21:33.569 --> 00:21:35.990 problems in homes and stuff like that. So it's 00:21:35.990 --> 00:21:38.369 good stuff. Yeah. So tell me how we introduce 00:21:38.369 --> 00:21:42.789 that in through QuickModel. Sure. So, yeah, QuickModel, 00:21:42.849 --> 00:21:46.750 I used the big two out there, RightSoft and Elite 00:21:46.750 --> 00:21:50.910 for my entire career, mostly RightSoft. And I 00:21:50.910 --> 00:21:53.930 taught on it. I taught a lot of classes. on rights 00:21:53.930 --> 00:21:56.690 and elite. And it was very frustrating to me 00:21:56.690 --> 00:21:58.789 to teach a three -day class. And then at the 00:21:58.789 --> 00:22:00.710 end of the class, you know, the contractors would 00:22:00.710 --> 00:22:02.029 go, Russ, that was a great class, but there's 00:22:02.029 --> 00:22:03.630 no way in heck I'm going to do this. It's too 00:22:03.630 --> 00:22:07.150 complicated. It takes so much time. So I've been 00:22:07.150 --> 00:22:09.809 trying for many, many years. I have a blog article 00:22:09.809 --> 00:22:13.170 from 2013 that I wrote that said, it's just too 00:22:13.170 --> 00:22:15.130 complicated. We've got to simplify the process. 00:22:15.269 --> 00:22:20.670 Well, in 20... In 2018, 2019, my son graduated 00:22:20.670 --> 00:22:23.130 from college with a computer science degree and 00:22:23.130 --> 00:22:25.769 he wanted to design video games. I said, wait, 00:22:25.809 --> 00:22:28.150 I got an idea. If you can help me with this idea. 00:22:28.250 --> 00:22:30.430 I got a project. I got a project for you. And 00:22:30.430 --> 00:22:33.569 I wanted him to do a demo for me so that I could 00:22:33.569 --> 00:22:35.950 show it to some of the big software companies. 00:22:36.109 --> 00:22:37.650 And the demo turned out so good. I was like, 00:22:37.710 --> 00:22:39.589 I think I have something. Dude, let's run with 00:22:39.589 --> 00:22:41.089 this. I don't want to sell this. I think I might 00:22:41.089 --> 00:22:43.589 keep this thing. Exactly. So I hijacked my son's 00:22:43.589 --> 00:22:49.029 career. He's done a wonderful job. We have a 00:22:49.029 --> 00:22:52.609 design tool that looks like a video game. We 00:22:52.609 --> 00:22:55.750 were hoping that that would really bring in the 00:22:55.750 --> 00:22:58.890 younger generation. But if no one's telling them 00:22:58.890 --> 00:23:00.869 to do it, if no one's forcing them to do it, 00:23:00.950 --> 00:23:03.480 if it's not being enforced by code. You can't 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:05.980 get them on your own. It's not a requirement. 00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:08.579 It's not a if you build it, they will come. If 00:23:08.579 --> 00:23:10.619 you build it and force them to come, then they 00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:14.339 will come. But anyways, it's there. And the people 00:23:14.339 --> 00:23:17.259 who use it absolutely love it and just swear 00:23:17.259 --> 00:23:19.920 by it. It's just getting people to realize it's 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:22.059 important. And I think we're finally, finally 00:23:22.059 --> 00:23:24.240 starting to see a trend where people are like, 00:23:24.299 --> 00:23:27.420 yeah, I guess I better start doing this. And 00:23:27.420 --> 00:23:29.049 I think it's been the heat pump. That's been 00:23:29.049 --> 00:23:30.809 the whole heat pump thing that's been driving 00:23:30.809 --> 00:23:33.369 a lot of that. It's made people rethink and relook 00:23:33.369 --> 00:23:37.349 at it, and especially energy incentives. If you're 00:23:37.349 --> 00:23:41.009 going to give away money to have a product installed, 00:23:41.490 --> 00:23:43.470 you better make sure that you're doing it right. 00:23:43.529 --> 00:23:45.789 You're doing your job. You're sizing this thing, 00:23:45.809 --> 00:23:47.289 and then you're laying everything out properly. 00:23:47.529 --> 00:23:52.769 Yes, exactly. trying really, really hard to keep 00:23:52.769 --> 00:23:55.289 it as simple as possible. My goal is to make 00:23:55.289 --> 00:23:59.289 our software fun to use. And that's a tall order 00:23:59.289 --> 00:24:03.490 for something that's not super exciting. My son's 00:24:03.490 --> 00:24:07.410 very proud of what he's accomplished. Every single 00:24:07.410 --> 00:24:09.950 line of code in our software, he wrote. My son's 00:24:09.950 --> 00:24:12.630 a programmer. And he just thinks it's like the 00:24:12.630 --> 00:24:15.200 world's most boring video game. But people come 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:17.019 up at the shows and tell him what an amazing 00:24:17.019 --> 00:24:19.700 software it is, and it's good for him to get 00:24:19.700 --> 00:24:22.319 that feedback, too. I'm sure it is. So that's 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:24.700 it, that whole gamification, right? Yeah, it 00:24:24.700 --> 00:24:27.039 really is. It really is. And the visualization, 00:24:27.740 --> 00:24:30.660 you know, the 3D aspect. When I show homeowners, 00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:34.440 we walk through their house, and they're like, 00:24:34.579 --> 00:24:36.779 this is why. There's no air getting in this bedroom 00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:38.319 because there's no way to get it tucked over 00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:40.619 there. It's physically impossible. They can't 00:24:40.619 --> 00:24:42.759 see that unless it's in 3D. You put it right 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:44.640 in front of you and you take away all of the 00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:47.240 things that they actually see. Let's get rid 00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:49.680 of these walls. We can leave the framing so you 00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:51.039 see where things are, but let's get rid of them. 00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:53.519 Oh, by the way, if we took the ceiling out, we 00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:55.680 took that insulation out, this is what your house 00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:57.160 would look like. And these are the obstacles 00:24:57.160 --> 00:24:59.599 that everyone has had to work with. during this 00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:02.539 process. Yeah, exactly. Very cool. So tell us, 00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:05.099 where can we learn more about Quickmodel? Sure. 00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:08.539 Just go to our website. It's spelled K -W -I 00:25:08.539 --> 00:25:12.259 -K, model, Quickmodel. Go to YouTube, just search 00:25:12.259 --> 00:25:16.759 for Quickmodel. But our website is www .quickmodel 00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:19.519 .com. That's it. Fantastic. I appreciate your 00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:21.220 time today. Oh, it's great to be here. It's always 00:25:21.220 --> 00:25:24.559 fun to do these with you. All right. Everyone 00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:25.119 have a great day.