Well, hello, everyone. Thank you for joining
us once again on Did You Know, the ESCO HVAC
podcast. So we're spending some time today with
Rob Larson from General Plumbing Supply. How
are you doing? Good. How are you? I'm doing just
fine. Spending some time hanging out here at
the National HVACR Education Conference. And
I was going through the topic that you wanted
to cover, and it's one that's like near and dear
to my heart. Yeah, I figured it would be. You
know, when we... For those of you that are listening
that are technicians, which I'm sure there's
quite a few technicians listening to this. So
when you call in for tech support, we are who
you get. That's correct. Now, what we do is it's
a combination of two things. I always tried to
tell people that what we do is tech support is
80 percent. personal education and 20 % technical.
Yeah. Well, I don't call it tech support without
adding HVAC tech therapy support. Yeah, it's
therapy. It's like moral support for the job
site. And these guys know, they know their stuff.
They just get caught up in the moment. They really
do. Yeah, it's like getting up on that ledge,
right? Yeah. It's like we get stuck and then
all of a sudden the only thing we see is down.
That's it. Right? Instead of everything behind
us that's comfortable. And how do we turn around,
right? How do we look back and see the things
that we probably already know? I think training,
obviously, is the biggest thing, especially with
all the new technology that you see out there.
I mean, come on. I feel bad. I've been doing
this a long time. The technology today, from
when I started, you go back 40 years. And, you
know, I don't even tell people I have 40 years
anymore because the first 20 years, probably
in a museum somewhere, it's meaningless. It's
not even existence to teach on. Yeah, guys with
10 and 15 years experience have the same experience
as guys with 40 years. Man, that's a great point.
Yeah. I hadn't really thought of it from like
that. Yeah, 100 % because this last 15 or so
is really, that's the critical ones. Yeah. So,
I mean, this is what they're up against, right?
Yeah. But I found trying to just learn a sequence
of operation of anything. And we started with
just a simple furnace operation. The sequence
of operation for a gas -fired furnace. You recite
it, you memorize it, and then it starts helping
you with other equipment that you're working
on. Because at the end of the day, something
has to happen. If you connect these two wires,
something's going to happen. And to learn that
sequence and I use I have a little thing in my
training center about it. We do our training.
I have a plaque up there that says, learn the
sequence, rule the world. Oh, you know, and it's
you know, I try to push that a lot to get guys
to understand. That's a hot one right there.
Yeah. Because you're right. Everyone asks, where
did you go to learn all this stuff? You must
have went to 10 schools. I'm like, I don't have
a degree. I went to one year of college. I worked
on stuff because people showed me how it actually
worked. And just getting that down. I started
in the oil business. I went to school for air
conditioning and heat. My first job was with
an oil company. i didn't know anything about
oil right service manager took me out first couple
days i started yeah and he literally showed me
how to do a service call on an oil burner And
I took notes. I was that guy, right? I had to
take notes. I might have to come back to this
one day. Yeah. So I wrote down everything he
did. And it was like 10 or 12 items, I remember.
And I just, after writing them down, after doing
a couple of jobs, I memorized this list. And
every single service call I went on, I used that
list. you know i still remember today and it's
been a long time since i worked on oil but going
there getting the main oil filter taking that
apart making sure that's not clogged we always
dip the tank and we suspect that the oil is low
or there may be water in the tank yeah but after
that we're going we would find that in the water
filter or any in the oil filter if there was
any water or anything so we just start there
and then we go to the pump strainer right through
the whole thing and And for the most part, you
know, you find a problem, you correct it. And
I just remember doing that for months. And I
was called to do a call that a gentleman who's
been doing it for 15 years just came off a call.
It wound up being a callback. System failed after
he left. So they sent me, unknowing that they
sent me until after work when they brought me
in and talked to me about it. So I go to the
job and I went through my list. When they called
me into the office and said, hey, that call you
were on, what'd you find? You know, first thing
I'm thinking is, I don't remember what I found
because I found my list. And then I kind of thought
about the job and I said, I think the strainer
was a little clogged, you know, so I cleaned
out the strainer. And I go, why are you asking,
man? Like, what happened? Was it a callback?
What happened? He goes, no, we sent, you know,
Tommy over there. He's got 15 years on you. You're
here three months. And you have the least amount
of callbacks. And we were just trying to figure
out how you get the least amount of callbacks.
I said, well, I go through this list and it works.
So it's not, you know, it's just getting, I know
it can be boring for some guys that want to just
find a problem, but you know, you can't just
stop at one thing. You have to go through everything
and create yourself a checklist and you'll get
through it. Yeah. What do you think about like
in that moment? Like, do you ever get that technician
and you go? Hey, why don't you tell me this process
and let's walk back and let's see where you're
at and let's see if you missed anything. Well,
I'll start from the beginning. I mean, I'll get
a call where a guy would say, listen, I don't
know what's wrong with this unit. I checked this
and I checked everything. Yeah, we checked everything.
Voltage is good. Everything's good. Air flow
is good. Static pressure is good. Everything's
good. And after he rattles all that off. And
you can tell he's frustrated because he's on
the job. He's thinking about the next job already.
And this is what I try to, this is where the
therapy kicks in, right? Right. Because I'm thinking,
hey, I got to let him talk to me. Like, I don't,
I'm not going to interrupt him and tell him,
hey, hey, hey, stop. Let's just start from the
beginning. Yep. So that's what I do. So I let
him finish. And then, you know, I try to lighten
it up a little bit because I can tell he's stressed
out. And I go, you tell me all these things that
are good. I'm like, well, if the voltage is good,
the pressure is good, everything's good. Why
are you calling me? You don't need me. And that's
right away. I called you because the problem,
it won't work. And I just, you know, we get a
little chuckle. I said, I'm only kidding with
you. It's all right. Break the ice. Yeah. And
then I start from the beginning. What's your
voltage? Oh, my voltage. I checked it already.
It's fine. just follow me just you know i'm taking
notes as we talk yeah i need you to just tell
me what the power what the voltage is and they'll
say well it's 208 230 i go oh well it can't be
bolts why don't you pick one and that's when
i know they're just you know what they're doing
and then they stop all right let me get my meter
i'll measure you know and i'll i may ask him
for that second oh yeah it's it's 239 .1 right
like give me that point number because i know
you used you truly measured it yeah so believe
it or not we start at that point and it starts
you know we follow that path down and i'm literally
just showing them how to troubleshoot how to
check from you know the voltage control wire
and go through the steps okay what's not happening
you know and then they'll trip over it You know,
they'll find it. Exactly. So it's like being
lost in a forest. And I'm just somehow, I'm like
that guy who's maybe, what's those little planes
called? Jeez, I've lost my thoughts. It's the
you're just flying overhead and you're able to
see this person lost in the woods. Yeah. Because
you've been there. You know what it looks like.
You know what they're looking at. Exactly. And
you walk them through it. And sometimes they'll
turn around and say, geez, you're scaring me.
I said, why is that? He goes, I feel like you're
over my shoulder right now looking because you
know what I'm looking at. Exactly. Because I
had the experience. I understand what you're
looking at. So, you know, you get to that point
with them and then you and then they'll find
it. They'll wind up saying, oh, I found the problem.
It was a loose wire or something, right? And
I go, well, congratulations. You did a good job.
You found the problem. And most of them will
say, no, no, no, no. You helped me find the problem.
I said, nah, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
You know, you're just trying to take the blinders
off and just focus on what they're trying to
do and not worry about the next job. You know,
it doesn't matter how long it takes you this
time to figure this out. But hopefully you learn
a technique that you become efficient at figuring
things out. Because the more you can figure out,
the more money you're going to make. Absolutely.
That's what it's about. That much more valuable.
Yeah. So that's what I try to encourage them.
And I say, listen, whatever you learn, you keep.
You own it. Your employee cannot take it away
from you. It's in your mind. That's so spot on,
man. When you're throwing these analogies, I'm
like, oh my gosh. How many times I've been in
that same scenario. So those of you that are
listening, you've had these conversations where
you've called us for tech support and you've
walked through and you found it. That's because
we were there for moral support and not the technical
support. And they are. They're smart guys, man.
There's a lot of smart guys out there. Like I
said, once they realize that they're just thinking
too hard about it. And we're not just looking
for one problem. We want to make sure it's not
even. It's not even trying to find the problem,
is what I explained to him. I said, why don't
we find out what's not the problem? Yeah. Why
don't we do that? Let's make sure we check what's
working. And you could bench test any component
in a system. You know, the one thing I like to
explain to them, the difference between a load
and a switch. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so you
look at the breakdown of the components in the
equipment you're working on, and just identify,
is it a load or a switch? And then just try to...
isolate each component and hey you're a load
so if i put power to you you should work right
if you're a switch well i have a bunch of jumpers
in my in my bag i'm going to jump around you
and if you work then then that kind of helps
me figure out where we're going with it but it's
it's a lot for for guys so that's one of the
things it is and but i also want to encourage
you know those that are listening that like when
you get to that point right it it's not that
you're failing to diagnose It's just you probably
just need a break. You need that minute to step
back. And sometimes tech support is the solution
for that moment. But if you think about that,
what you really needed was that break to step
away. And so I always try to encourage technicians,
right? If you get to that point, you immediately
want to call tech support. Go take a little bit
of a break. Take a few minutes. Step back. You
might even call one of your buddies. Vent for
a minute, right? Get rid of some of that steam
and then relook at things. Because that was most
of my experiences. Most of my calls, they knew
what was wrong. They just hadn't found it yet
or they hadn't got to that step on their own
yet. And they just needed that little bit of
assistance. It's so true. I mean, my own experience
of working on a rooftop unit, Clint, I could
not figure out what the problem was on this rooftop
unit. It was frustrating me. I just got so frustrated.
I walked away from it. I went downstairs, went
to my truck, just walked away, came back up and
still didn't know what the problem was when I
came back up through the hatch of the roof. But
I did something weird. I actually walked at the
unit. I went to the unit at a different angle.
I literally walked to the different approach,
right? So I got to it from a different angle,
looked at certain things, and I found the problem.
I was like, all of a sudden, like, I just. It
was here. Yeah. Just looking at it from different
angles. So it's crazy. It's crazy. I love this
because not everyone gets to see, like, what
does it look like on the other side of tech support,
right? What does it feel like for someone who
helps people all day long? Because that's really,
that's what we do. Well, you know, my experience
having been both in the field calling for tech
support and then being that tech support today,
one of the things I could appreciate with guys
that are out in the field is that the last thing
they want to do is get a guy. who's book smart,
like, you know, you can hear it. You call certain
tech support. You'll hear the pages slipping.
Like, what's your problem? Like they have a script
they're reading from, you know, they have no
idea why the guy's frustrated. Well, he's up
in an attic. It's 150 degrees. Sweat's dripping
in the eyeball, burning. Like for me to have
that experience when I'm talking to him, I feel
like I'm with him, like I'm there because I've
been there with him. So it is a benefit for me
to have the experience I have. compared to maybe
the school yeah tort guys that um you know that
went through and could read through a diagram
or book or something oh yeah it's this problem
or this or that problem where i'm i'm feeling
their pain i really am and and you know and and
i could relate to that and and that's how i wind
up having a better conversation with them compared
to maybe guys that are just cold and just give
me the pressure give me this well give me that
you know it's like To your point, even when you're
trying to figure out what the voltage should
be or what the pressure should be, when those
measurements come across, and I tell guys all
the time, all I need you to know is how to take
the measurements. I don't care if you don't know
what they mean. That's my job to tell you what.
Get them. Learn how to get the information. There's
apps now. You stick that information in there.
You won't need me in another five years' problem.
It really is AI. I know you guys talked about
AI a lot. uh you know prior to retirement i'm
gonna do what i can to help guys uh get past
some of the hurdles they get into and uh some
of the roadblocks and mental blocks they have
you know that that mental block is probably the
the thing that affected my career the most right
that mental block is when you when you think
about um you know when you're out there on a
job a lot of us are out there on our own All
right. We might be we might be lucky enough to
have, you know, apprentice with us that we're
actually working with trying to teach the ropes.
But then when we get that mental block, man,
the pressure is on now. Right. Because if you
got an apprentice with you, the apprentice is
looking at you. You know, if you got a customer,
the customer is looking at you. You got a supervisor,
supervisors are looking at you. So then like
that pressure just builds and it builds. And
then once that pressure and blood pressure. elevates
then the whole mental calculating the whole mental
capacity just goes right out the ears and it's
okay to call tech support and go man i don't
know what i'm doing i should be able to figure
this out can you help me out because it could
literally be a 20 second i got your back you
got this you've been on this before cool so you've
done this before let me just help you get back
there And that minute, few minutes to step back,
step away, and just be a tech with a tech. Right.
And that's really what it is. Just feel the pain,
man. You're in an office. I mean, I'm in an office.
It's cool. I'm 70 degrees. Where are you? An
attic? Where are you? Basement? Exactly. Crawl
space? I don't know where you are. But, you know,
once I find out, I could sympathize with you,
like you said. And I would hope some of the technical
support training guys get to. do that and get
to understand that part of it because it really
makes you appreciate what the what the technicians
are up against yeah really and you made a good
a great point about how you know things could
just you know with all the pressure of the customer
wanting to know what's going on and you know
you find your way but i'll tell you what you
get over that with experience because i i've
i've been in that position where i i customers
following me around in my early days and I'm
like, I don't know what's wrong, give me a chance.
There's many times I spark things and they go
like, that shouldn't have happened. I just eliminated
one thing though. I get all that too, but experience,
just building their confidence and getting them
up. yeah and uh that's why i have fun with it
i throw that little therapy in there but i i
don't mean much by it but these guys are great
like i said once they get past that and they
do they they're very smart people are you know
the techs out there today are very intelligent
guys so they are they're learning with technologies
and tools that you and i didn't grow up with
you know there was Back in my day, your day,
there wasn't digital medical gauges. I mean,
my phone flipped. I mean, that's about as good
as it got. I started with a flip. I started with
the pager. Yeah, exactly. And it didn't have
numbers. It just lit off. You knew you had to
call the office. Yeah, that was a lot of fun.
So things have changed. Technology has helped.
It's going to continue to push us forward. But
that moral support that we all need, all of us
need. Sometimes comes in the form of a technical
support call. Love it. All right. So tell us
a little bit more. How can we make contact and
what kind of training stuff are you doing? Well,
we do. So we're a distributor that has dealers
that deal with the Luxair product. And so what
we wind up doing is supporting our dealers through
training. We do have a... training facility in
piscataway new jersey that's built into our corporate
office into the branch that operates out of piscataway
oh very nice our company one of the reasons why
i went on board with them was because of the
investment they wanted to make into the training
and tech support because it's in hand and they're
they go together i mean my the tech calls i get
from our dealers and when i find out what they
know what they don't know it's kind of like hey
i just could build a training program just for
this particular topic i hear you yeah so we we
do a lot of that and then we do what we call
on -demand training which is allowing our customer
base to basically use this as an extension of
their training so for example guys wanted to
do rooftops commissioning startups so i'm like
great you know we have a facility we could get
the book and we do do a lot of hands -on stuff
Very cool. And the hands -on stuff we deal with
is products we stick on the wall. I mean, we
literally will take a rooftop unit that, you
know, take the guts out of it and slap it on
the wall, wire it up and make it work. Nice.
Because we want to show them what it looks like
without all the metal on it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Plus, you're in a training center and there's
only so much room you have. You betcha. Get it
down to the bones so you can see what's in it.
We do that with the rooftops with an 80 % furnace.
I mean, I have... I have an 80 % furnace on my
wall that I literally screwed to the wall. It
doesn't have a blow wheel. It doesn't have a
heat exchanger. But everything else is there.
Right through the sequence of operation. And
you can do everything but fire it up because
we don't allow gas in them. But we simulate.
We'll simulate a flame sensor through simulation
and we'll make it work. gas valve should be doing
through the sequence we use we use uh nitrogen
to do gas pressure testing oh yeah there you
go so just you know we're being creative yeah
uh we use a lot of resistors and you know little
uh adjustments to change things up change things
up change temperatures on our probes and show
them different environments so we have fun with
it in fact i'll have to show you some pictures
of it some afterwards but we have up the top
of my training center it is a big sign we put
up there it says hvac playground oh yes and that's
it's funny people walk in and they're like what
do you do i get paid to play diamond plate at
wall really yeah we yeah let me check that out
so you know uh myself and another guy we we went
we got together to put this together when we
first moved in a building about three years ago
and as we're building it you know he says well
what do you expect what type of build and what
do you think, what kind of reaction are you looking
to have when you build this training center?
I said, well, I want people to walk in and the
first thing I want them to say is, wow. Yeah,
right off the bat. This is where I want to be.
Yeah, it was great to be able to do that. And
we were just about finished with the displays.
And one of our workers came in, one of the employees
came in. Believe it or not, first words out of
his mouth was, wow. There you go. Me and the
guy, Jeff, we looked at each other and we're
like, we got it. We got the wow factor. What's
the website for that so people can check that
out? It's generalplumbingsupply .net. Yep. And
they just look under the event tab. You'll see
training. We have a whole training section in
there. We're also looking to put together some.
youtube videos and you know we're big on on in
fact you've helped me uh start going in that
direction yeah i'm old timer i'm gonna you know
still getting used to the iphone that's right
yeah we're gonna do a little bit more of this
because you you can reach it get more big audience
bigger audience get more people so we do that
nice it's all good well man i sure appreciate
you joining us today yeah well thanks for having
me and i'm Sure, we'll find some other topics
moving forward. I know commission is your big
thing. That's a big one. Yeah, I can't wait to
get onto that one. Yeah, so we got a whole thing
about commissioning birth certificates and creating
mechanical birth, I call it, or bringing mechanical
life into the world when you take a piece of
equipment and you start putting power to it.
You start putting electric to a furnace, gas,
flue pipe. You do your refrigeration, and when
you flip that switch on, you know you bring life
into the world mechanical life into the world
and uh i try to remind guys that's no different
to me because being very passionate about this
field it's no different to me than having a a
child born you know you look at how a child's
born and the the list that that doctor has to
check off before they say hey that child's ready
to go time yeah so you know even checking the
debate you know when you compare it to a child
You know, when you're checking the lungs and
the capacity of the lungs, that's no different
than static pressure. Absolutely. So there's
a lot of relationship that I use or analogy between
a human birth and a mechanical birth. You know,
just take pride in what you do, because at the
end of the day, you can't just it's not just
plug it in play. Right. I heard all day at this,
you know, conferences. There's no plug and play
anymore, guys. You have to. Do the commissioning.
You have to put the work into it afterwards after
you put everything together, you know, through
testing, combustion, analyzing, testing, gas
pressure and stuff like that. So we get very
deep in that. And most of my training is based
on that commissioning. Because why teach you
how to use a meter if it doesn't apply to anything?
It doesn't have a result. Yeah. We need you to
apply it and then write it down, put it somewhere.
Man. All right. Y 'all heard that, right? Yeah.
Episode number two. Birthing HVAC. Birthing.
We all became doctors. That's great stuff. Well,
thank you, sir. Appreciate your time today. Thanks
for having me and have a great show.