Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining Did You
Know, the ESCO HVAC podcast. This episode brought
to you by Seitron Americas, creating products
that offer advantages and accessibility to all.
Learn more at seitronamericas .com. Well, hello,
everyone. We're spending some time today with
Jason Estevez. How are you, sir? Good. Very good.
How about yourself? I'm doing wonderful. I'm
actually on the road this week. I'm spending
time down at the Daikin Waller facility. We're
going to be doing some, yeah, a lot of factory
tours, behind the scenes video shoot. We've got
some director conversations about training and
ways that, you know, Esco and manufacturers are
going to be spending more time, you know, dedicated
to training and training resources, you know,
especially in this coming year. And so that's
one of the reasons we're hanging out with. Citron
today, not just Citron, Jason Estevez, general
manager, one of the top 25 most influential educators
for 2024, as well as the OESP. Tell me about
that one as well. So OESP, I was fortunate and
honored to be the instructor of the year last
year, 2024, as well as top 25 most influential.
So 2024 was a crazy year for actually being.
you know after 20 plus years uh really focusing
on training myself it was kind of really um touching
and and you know very cool to be recognized for
hey the hours you spend away from home and in
hotels like you and uh and just uh going out
there and being in front of the customer and
doing some some train that's what we do for a
living so i was very honored to do that and uh
oesp um It started off as Naotium many years
ago, very heavily in the oil industry here on
the East Coast. And I got into that industry
right out of college and became a member and
went to meetings. I remember doing my first trainings
and getting my butt chewed out from a lot of
guys until you kind of... You start learning
very quickly that if you're going to stand up
there and teach, you better know what you're
talking about. And so that was it was it was
one of the few times outside of my my, you know,
my wedding and my kids being born that like when
I it was a surprise. So when I won the award,
I actually did cry on my way up. So it was quite
touching. Yeah. A lot of people don't realize
the dedication that we do on this side of the
industry. You know, they think, oh boy, it'd
be fantastic to be a trainer and get to travel
around the country. And it is, I mean, it has
its perks. Absolutely. But, you know, at the
same time, it's a lot of time away from family,
but it's our passion. I mean, if I didn't love
it or my team is very good at that too, if we
didn't love what we did, it would be a sad existence.
But that's not what, you know, being a trainer
is incredibly rewarding and fulfilling because
guys come to your class, they ask questions.
You know, some of our trainers have different
personalities. So you kind of, you know, my way
is a little bit more blue collar, a little more
open and the guys just receive that. very well
i guess sometimes and uh but yeah i mean i i
my my wife and i have a joke we've been together
since we were teenagers so she's done my thank
you um she's known my life since i started in
this industry right and the heating season is
heating season so she's a teacher so we have
this joke every labor day which is by the way
our anniversary and we kiss each other goodbye
and we say i'll see you at thanksgiving so it's
kind of how it goes and you know i miss a lot
of uh games and and events and things like that
but i'm on the road and it but it's it's fun
we love i love what i do i love seeing guys learn
something new in the class or ask questions and
and i love to get stumped too going oh wow this
is this is new and it's not just teaching the
technicians it's also visiting and training with
like like you're doing now with manufacturers
and going what's the new technology what do techs
need to know in the field what's happening down
the pike whether it's with combustion or refrigerants
or there's so much changing um that if you're
teaching a class you need to know it so it's
uh but yeah there's a there's a there's very
big ups and downs being on the road and traveling
sounds fun but gets tiring after a bit as you
can imagine but on the flip side to that there's
this incredible um you know the feedback and
the and the feeling of accomplishment you get
when guys leave your class and instead of leaving
they keep coming to the front of the class and
asking questions and talking. And what should
be a couple hours turns into even longer because
you've built a relationship with them. So it's
incredibly rewarding. Yeah, I just did a podcast
recording earlier in the week that will be broadcast
at probably a very similar time to this one,
probably a week or so apart. And, you know, we
were talking about. education in general and
becoming an educator and how many times as technicians,
we don't think of ourselves as educators. And
then once we take that, it's kind of a leap of
faith into that new world of education, it really,
it opens up an entirely different avenue of reward.
I know for me, I enjoyed fixing broken things.
what I enjoy doing, making situations better.
That was a fantastic feeling. And then once I
got into the classroom and started having that
new food, right? It's almost like it's that success
of those light bulbs going off. It's like this
new hunger that I had as an educator, and I absolutely
love it. And it's really, it's that driving force
that has... brought you to where you are in your
career. When we look at, we were talking about
the National HVACR Education Conference, we had
three esteemed members of your piece of the industry
as part of the top 25 this year, showing the
amount of investment that is being made in understanding
combustion and understanding analysis. That's
really at the heart of what Citron is. Tell us
a little bit about the evolution of Citron, and
then we'll dive deeper into the whole training
aspect of things. Sure, sure. No, I appreciate
that. So, yeah, so myself and my colleague, Dan,
who we kind of go hand in hand here, we pretty
much run Seitron Americas as a team. We both started
off at a company called E -Instruments. Many
guys, many technicians still know. know us from
the instruments and they'll show me hey you're
still on my phone as Jason E instruments
and it's just okay so it is what it is um but
i was there for 18 of my 22 years uh now in the
in the industry and uh at a certain point back
in 2018 fortunately uh or unfortunately uh you
know things change and the company was bought
out by a different manufacturer and my our predecessor
and kind of leader there for both Dan and I on
not only a work level as a boss or employer,
but almost like a father figure to both of us
because Ray, who was our previous owner and the
owner of E -Instruments. I mean, I had known
him since I was a kid. I was a first employee
at E -Instruments. became an HVAC product national
product manager at 21 and didn't know anything
really. So I had to really learn when it comes
to education now. And Dan had known Ray as a
soccer coach in his youth at one point. So we
had this real like personal relationship and
he unfortunately passed away very, very shortly
after the company was sold. So, but in all those
years, Citron, this. this company in Italy was
the actual manufacturer of all of our products
we were kind of just private labeling a lot of
the the instruments so um at that time uh the
ownership and who i'd known for many years because
we'd worked together approached dan and i and
some of our other service guys and and said hey
we're gonna you know the market you know the
tools you know the instruments We want to open
up a subsidiary in North and South America, Seitron
Americas, and want you guys to be at the helm.
And I said, good, as long as you let me put it
in the Philly area, because that's where I live,
I'm good with it. But it was a great opportunity
for Dan and I to kind of kickstart what we've
always wanted to do is kind of run our own show
over here. And so we opened up in January of
2021. and have been growing substantially every
year. And those two, a lot of what we'll talk
about, not just a product, but the customer service
and support and all that. And in the meantime,
while I was making my decision, Sauerrman was actually
the company that bought e -instruments back in
2018. So I was there as the vice president of
sales for about two years there. It's just one
of those things, right? company takes over some
things you like some things you don't and yeah
this opportunity just came up and um i had a
good relationship with the ownership and it's
a family -run business so i i just made the decision
to leave but as you mentioned i mean i was um
fortunate enough to um to hire staff at saurman
and some some are well known in our industry
and and and uh as well and is under my tutelage
and training for for years and it's really cool
even though they're a competitor uh it's very
cool to see um guys who have you have trained
or had some part in in in helping along the way
stand on the same stage together um so it's very
it's very cool and touching but uh but citron
is a manufacturer obviously combustion is is
kind of our main focus but uh we're just getting
into new things like uh refrigeration testing
tools and that manifolds and then things like
that personal gas detection we're not just in
the hvac market either we do a lot actually the
majority of our business more on the commercial
versus residential side um and and in and in
in the industrial market too so um but um you
know we we the three things that i always tell
my team here and that i've been you know um kind
of beaten down to is your customer i don't care
if you sell to distributors wholesalers reps
whatever the case may be at the end of the day
your customer is the technician right so i don't
think about anything else in the midst of that
line except for them when they call you they're
not calling you to tell you how awesome your
equipment is they're calling you to help solve
an issue that's what you know so when i do a
training i'll when I'm sitting in front of a
room full of technicians, I say the best thing
for you to become more valuable to your company,
to go on your own, to do whatever you want is
be the guy who always gets the test product.
It's kind of this funny thing. I go see a service
manager and I talk about my analyzer and he goes,
let me give it to my best tech and he uses it
and he'll give me my feedback. Be that guy. The
more you learn, the more you educate. that's
how these guys become trainers or guys like us
right you're the one you're the guinea pig for
a lot of things along the way but when you become
the point of education to other technicians to
other guys it really is uh what makes you valuable
you know i think that's a great lesson you know
really when we look at you know as technicians
you know what is the future What does your career
look like? We're going to have technicians listening
to this podcast, driving down the road. The reason
we keep these 20 or 25 minutes is that's the
average length in between calls. And so as a
technician, if you're not that technician at
your company. That's the place you want to be.
If you are that technician at that company, now
we're talking to the person that's probably next
in line to become an educator. Yes. Even if it's
within your own company. We have a lot of contractors
that came to our conference this year looking
for resources to have their own technical training
departments in -house to be able to specialize
in training to do things right. And so part of
that. is having the resources, having the training
available to be the best that you can be. You
want to get really good with a Citron product.
You want to understand so well that you can teach
it to a fifth grader. You'll hear that all the
time around here. It's one of Eugene's things.
That's how well you need to know what you're
doing. You have to be able to break it down so
simple that... A grade schooler can understand
it, although it's meant for the professional.
So in doing that, it's about having the right
training resources. And so when we talk about
Citron, I don't want to just talk about the manufacturer.
I want to talk about your brand because you've
already said it. There's so much more than just
the product. It's that whole relationship and
training. So let's spend a little bit of time
talking about what you do in the world of training.
There are three pillars to our company, right?
Product is just one. And anybody can make a product.
That's a different set. The other two are the
most important. Like I said before, your end
user, your customer is the technician, right?
So customer support and training are the two
biggest aspects of what we do. And every salesperson,
every team member that I join, they're not –
I don't hire salespeople. I hire guys who have
done training before. because you have to be
comfortable enough to stand in front of the class
and you have to be, you know, you have to understand
what you're talking about. But education and
training, education and training is so important.
And it's honestly, it's so much fun. The sales
come from the training that if you, if you, if
you know, if you really, really, and it's really
funny when we go to a class and we stand up there
and this is going to be a combustion analysis
training and the faces that you see. And the
first thing I say, every class is don't worry
guys. It's not a sales presentation. It's a training.
In fact, a little thing that I learned early
on was don't hand out literature before class.
Only a card. I agree. As soon as you hand out
literature, it's here we go. Here we go. Here
we go. So I don't know. So I don't I don't in
our classes are Nate and Nora accredited. So,
you know, you can't just it brings guys in, of
course, but. You can't just go there and do a
sales presentation if you want accreditation.
You have to actually teach something. And we've
recently just partnered with NCI and the National
Comfort Institute as well. Great group. Yeah,
we've known them for a long time. we've taken
a lot of what we teach and train and put it actually
in the product part now right so it makes it
easier for guys because the easier you can make
it the better uh the more chances guys will actually
do it correctly the better things are done correctly
the better our equipment runs the better our
equipment runs the better our market is what
uh what a domino effect that you can that you
can have just by just by that little instinct
of let's train the guys right and if we do that
it'll it'll it'll kind of domino but um We really,
really focus on that. In fact, to give you an
example, Citron's not the biggest world name
when it comes to analyzers. We know who our competitors
are. And sometimes I'll sit with big companies
who are looking at a lot of analyzers and I will
sit with the service manager and I will tell
them, if you do not have us come in and do training
for your techs, buy another brand. That's how
important it is to us. Wow. How to use it, what
the readings mean, how to take care of it, how
to maintain them and go through everything. But
not just to train them. We want our guys to go
in and build a relationship. Everybody gets our
cell phone numbers, gets our card, put it in
the case. If you have a call, we have 24 hour,
seven day a week tech support. We will take any
phone call at any time. I've done it myself.
Friday nights, Christmas morning. My wife loves
that shit. Just loves it. But during. I've gotten
a little older, so during the off season, off
the heating season, my other guys take it now.
But like I said before, I mean, they're calling
you for an issue to help. I know the timing sometimes
stinks, but if you help and train and teach something,
even right there, not at a class, but right there
in the field, technicians remember that. And
the support that goes behind it, support and
training are linked. Even though they're two
pillars for us, they're completely linked. Very
similar. And you pick up a phone, it's incredible.
You know, one of the things that you had just
mentioned on the literature side, that's such
a great thing to think about, like even in a
classroom, right? You know, the importance of
holding on to the information and building that
relationship. Can we dive into that a little
bit deeper? Because that really is a great nugget.
of information whether you're on the sales training
side whether you're on training or you're an
educator that can really benefit any classroom
experience it it's the we're always taught um
first impressions go a long way right yeah and
unfortunately or fortunately in this industry
the first impression is a lot of times we don't
get it as much anymore because it's accredited
but it's still important and uh guys just think
it's going to be another local sales rep coming
in to talk about their product for an hour and
that's really unfortunately what it sometimes
is and sometimes not you have to have the right
educator so i i know i travel all over the country
and i'm out with my local sales reps and my sales
reps are doing their job while i'm setting up
the class they're handing out the catalogs and
i'll tell them no don't do that take all the
literature and you put it at the table at the
end where the products are because there's a
i always set up Here's the products if you want
to touch. I start the class going, guys, this
is going to be an education thing. This is also
going to be interactive, which means I'm going
to ask you questions. I don't stand up here to
do this to myself and speak to nobody. I'm not
going to read off the bullet points in the PowerPoint.
This is what it's going to be. We're going to
have some fun, but this is how it's going to
go. I leave all that literature and all the product
and I start the class going, if you want literature
that And if you want product stuff, it's there.
We'll talk at the end. I have a product. I will
talk about it when it's relevant to what we're
talking about in combustion. Maybe there's a
feature or something that we do that's based
on what's happening in the process to make the
testing easier. I will not walk around with the
product. I will not, you know, hand out that
kind of stuff. The only thing I hand out, a pen,
a business card, a pad of paper, and sometimes
what we call a little quick guide cheat sheet.
which has to deal with combustion, which is educational
focused. Then we run the class and then at the
end of class, I have a little QR code that guys
sign into and I go, I will send you a booklet,
a copy of the presentation for you to reference,
steal from, I don't care. As long as you're using
it, that's what it's there for. But if you want
product, then right over there at the end of
the table, at the end of class. Then that's when,
if they trust you and learn something, they will
come up and talk to you about the product. That's
why I'm saying like in our, how we at Citron
do it is that way. It's education first, the
training first. The sales, you might not get
a sale tomorrow, but the next time they go to
buy a combustion analyzer or a leak detector
or something like that, they go, you know, that
guy, he gave me a cell phone. Let me call him.
Let me ask him questions. And the next time they
think about purchasing one, that's when they'll
reach out. you have to and sometimes in our industry
that happens man we get so focused on how many
guys are we're going to get in the class and
how do we get hand out as much literature and
talk about the product and you go that's not
that's you can do that it's just it's not going
to work if you really want to be um an educator
and not a sales rep right i mean it's a big difference
no i i completely believe in that philosophy
i mean if you think about our own conference
when we have presenters at our conference, we
typically have a couple hundred applications
for classes. That's the reason we have a hundred
classes is we've already sorted through half
of them and have that much content. And that
is always our prereq is that no matter what product
that you represent, the importance is the actual
education. We want you to represent your brand.
Absolutely. Of course. That's part of it. Try
to hold that if you can towards the end, because
if you can teach the concepts, the actual product
is like a byproduct of the conversation. Even
as technicians, you know, if we think about presenting
a solution to a homeowner, I'm a technician.
I found a problem. This system is. probably going
to have to be replaced. Do I go straight to the
consumer and go, okay, here's the products that
we carry. And by the way, your system is shot.
You're going to buy one of these. It's not a
successful approach. If we do the education upfront,
okay, here is the problem. This is what happened.
This is the most likely solution. And in that,
I'm going to present you some options. And here's
what I have to offer. It's a completely different
process for the same information. It's just the
way that we deliver it. It tends to be much better
received. I couldn't agree. Let's take what I
do for a living just as an example on the combustion
analyzer, right? I tell every technician in class,
we actually have a section of the class of how
they can use it as their own sales tool. It's
not just an education on how to use the instruments,
what the numbers mean and all that kind of stuff.
It's stop thinking of it as just some expensive
service tool that you might need when you do
a 90 percenter. No, it's actually like you said,
right? If I have an instance where I went to
this class, I learned how to check for a cracked
heat exchanger on my furnace using my analyzer.
I did the test and oh boy, I saw it. Now I'm
educating the homeowner. First of all, I'm covering
my self -reliability. But secondly, I'm showing
them, hey, this is what is happening. And now
let me talk to you about it. And I said, guys,
do me a favor. The next time you go to use your
analyzer, turn it on outside, right? Walk into
the home. You know, typically the first question
somebody's going to ask you is, what the hell
is that thing? What's that? I've not seen one
of those here before. No one's brought that before.
And I'll say, and then now I'll go, okay. tell
them exactly what it is. It's a testing instrument
to test not only the air in the room, but why
don't you come down with me to your furnace and
let's plug this in together and see how efficient
the equipment's running and see how safely it's
running. Before I touch anything, before I even
do anything, let's just see what it's doing together.
Then I'll ask everybody in the class, guys, what
did I just do? Everybody goes, you gained credibility.
Welcome to sales. i don't care if you're a technician
or not you just gained credibility that nobody
else has done so when you get to that point if
you do find a problem or if you get to that point
that we all want to sell equipment and you find
an issue or something like that the level of
trust that you've began with is higher but this
all comes and that's just a small portion of
what we teach in class that use this as a different
tool not just a not just a tool but use the tool
for other things so um you know those those little
things that whether everybody has a shirt with
the company name on it you represent the company
and how do you educate yourself to educate i
my job is to educate technicians technicians
job is to educate homeowners that's how we get
sales it's again another domino effect whether
we like it or not it is um so there's there's
You know, sometimes guys think of an education.
I'm going to go there. And yeah, combustion is
not the most sexiest thing to talk about for
a while because it's chemistry, right? It's oxygen
and CO and all these things. Yeah, I get that.
There's part of that. And I try to make it as
fun as we possibly can. But there are other things
that we teach on. Like, why is this happening?
Why is this going on? When you see these numbers,
what does it mean? And how do you use that to
better yourself and be better educated and to
cover your own behind when it comes to liability?
But if you don't know what to look for, that's
another problem. So there's a lot in there, but
it's kind of how you go about giving the information
to them. this thing on the crack tea exchanger
right the amount of times i teach guys in the
class and i don't care what brand they use every
analyzer pretty much does the same at the end
of the day but when i teach them how to check
for it the light that's my funnest part of the
class when i get to things like that because
i know i go i can't wait for the light bulb moment
man i've been talking for an hour here it comes
and and you just see guys faces and you see the
oh shit i didn't know that And I go, yeah, you
could do it with yours. And then we start implementing
things. So what we do as a company is, you know,
we go out and because you're spending so much
time in the field with manufacturers and technicians
and teaching, you go, okay, I know this is important.
How do we implement this stuff now into the instrument
for it to do? So now my guys can just go there,
click a button, hit Cracked Heat Exchanger. It
comes up and tells you. You're trying to make
it even user -friendlier for us to use it more.
Right. So that's that's kind of it's kind of
our philosophy. It all comes from being on the
field, seeing the guys, talking to them. And
whether we like it or not, for time immemorial,
this industry, I don't care about the amount
of technology we have, will and always will be
a personal relationship business. It's the brand
you trust. It's the people you trust, the sales
rep you trust, the distributor you trust. It's
all these different types of things. And it's
the trainers that you trust. And that's what
I try to hit my guys with all the time. Be the
trainer they'll trust. The sales will come later.
Man, that's the title of this podcast. Jason
Estevez, how do we learn more about the training
opportunities at Citron and how to connect with
Citron? Sure. So we're easy to find. We don't
have an answering service here. So call, ask
about any kind of training. You'll get myself,
Dan or Kevin. uh involved uh we travel all over
there's three of us full time doing this for
a living here um we're all over the country so
don't feel like oh well i'm in utah these guys
are in philadelphia no we we we're everywhere
all the time uh dan and i joke around that we'll
see each other at holidays in between um and
um you know so we have we have a lot of flexibility
here um you know you can go to our website which
is actually seitronamericas .com um and uh you
can you know, touch base with us, email us, call
us. You'll see the telephone number there and
just call and say, I want some training or how
do I talk to Jason, Dan or Kevin and Tara in
our office? They'll be happy to put you through.
Awesome. All right. Well, I sure appreciate you
hanging out with us today and I look forward
to hopping in one of these classes sometime.
Oh, anytime. And it's a pleasure. We do have
some different personalities. So if you like
more of a blue collar. north jersey effect that's
me uh and then we have some other guys who are
a little bit more professional so it really depends
on your personality but it's still fun as long
as you make it fun and guys are learning they'll
they'll they'll appreciate it you can't do this
for this long if guys don't like it that's exactly
right all right washer appreciate your time today
thank you for the time appreciate it