WEBVTT 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:07.320 Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining Did You 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:11.439 Know, the ESCO HVAC podcast. This episode brought 00:00:11.439 --> 00:00:14.660 to you by HeatCraft, the market leader in commercial 00:00:14.660 --> 00:00:19.579 refrigeration. Learn more at HeatCraftRPD .com. 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:24.280 Justin Bailey, technical trainer from HeatCraft. 00:00:24.300 --> 00:00:26.379 How are you doing today, sir? I'm doing wonderful. 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:29.660 Beautiful day here in Stone Mountain, Georgia, 00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:32.079 pouring rain all day, so I'm glad I'm inside. 00:00:32.420 --> 00:00:34.619 Exactly. Yeah, I think we're actually, we had 00:00:34.619 --> 00:00:36.060 some rain earlier today, and it's going to be 00:00:36.060 --> 00:00:38.799 hit and miss all day. You know, spring weather 00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:42.619 is part of it. But it's better to be here than... 00:00:43.229 --> 00:00:45.649 than out on a roof somewhere today. I agree. 00:00:45.869 --> 00:00:47.950 You know, and that's one of the fun things about 00:00:47.950 --> 00:00:50.850 regrouping and talking with experienced technicians 00:00:50.850 --> 00:00:54.530 like yourself, Justin. Before the podcast, we 00:00:54.530 --> 00:00:56.670 were talking about, you know, our experience 00:00:56.670 --> 00:00:59.609 in the industry. Both of us were refrigeration 00:00:59.609 --> 00:01:02.270 technicians. You know, I spent a majority of 00:01:02.270 --> 00:01:05.609 my life in the field. You as well were, you know, 00:01:05.609 --> 00:01:09.269 refrigeration technician. We've both seen some 00:01:09.269 --> 00:01:11.430 refrigerant transitions early in the industry 00:01:11.430 --> 00:01:13.870 when we were going away from things like CFCs 00:01:13.870 --> 00:01:17.250 and HCFCs. One of my biggest hiccups back in 00:01:17.250 --> 00:01:19.829 the day is when we were going away from R12. 00:01:20.290 --> 00:01:22.750 So when I got into the industry, I was still 00:01:22.750 --> 00:01:26.670 a young tech and I was working on a lot of mom 00:01:26.670 --> 00:01:29.109 and pop grocery stores and restaurants and every 00:01:29.109 --> 00:01:32.569 bar in about five counties. So everyone had old 00:01:32.569 --> 00:01:35.549 R12 coolers, right? And so we're going through 00:01:35.549 --> 00:01:38.230 the refrigerant transition. And some of them 00:01:38.230 --> 00:01:41.150 were easy to transition over to. So depending 00:01:41.150 --> 00:01:43.549 on what kind of control it had. So, you know, 00:01:43.549 --> 00:01:45.810 as a technician, I had to look at a system, determine 00:01:45.810 --> 00:01:47.590 what was the existing refrigerant, whether it 00:01:47.590 --> 00:01:49.269 had a temperature control or pressure control. 00:01:49.549 --> 00:01:52.290 Because if I was using R12 and I was going to 00:01:52.290 --> 00:01:55.370 use something like R414B, it might not work well 00:01:55.370 --> 00:01:57.269 on pressure control. And so I'd have to convert 00:01:57.269 --> 00:01:59.530 the temperature. Sometimes it was a headache. 00:02:00.170 --> 00:02:02.590 And a lot of technicians are concerned about 00:02:02.590 --> 00:02:04.269 this A2L transition that we're going through 00:02:04.269 --> 00:02:07.060 right now for commercial refrigeration. You know, 00:02:07.060 --> 00:02:10.400 there's been some hiccups with the R454B availability 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:13.219 in the residential light commercial sector. And 00:02:13.219 --> 00:02:14.800 so the refrigeration technicians are going, oh, 00:02:14.819 --> 00:02:17.800 is it going to be crazy for us? And not really. 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:22.340 I don't think so. Yeah. You know, when we talk 00:02:22.340 --> 00:02:25.240 about the solutions, yeah, we're going through 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:28.419 refrigerant transitions. But when we look at 00:02:28.419 --> 00:02:32.400 the big picture of what we're doing, we are just 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:35.909 using refrigerants to move heat. Many of our 00:02:35.909 --> 00:02:38.530 new refrigerants, if not most of our refrigerants, 00:02:38.550 --> 00:02:40.770 are going to operate in very similar pressures 00:02:40.770 --> 00:02:43.770 to what we're used to. And when you have forward 00:02:43.770 --> 00:02:46.669 -thinking companies like Heatcraft, it really 00:02:46.669 --> 00:02:49.289 makes it an easy transition whether you're working 00:02:49.289 --> 00:02:51.449 on a new system or retrofitting an existing. 00:02:51.650 --> 00:02:54.210 So let's talk about some of the changes in commercial 00:02:54.210 --> 00:02:56.669 refrigeration and solutions that Heatcraft is 00:02:56.669 --> 00:02:59.889 offering. Okay, well, the first thing that I 00:02:59.889 --> 00:03:02.770 want to say to everyone is... a refrigeration 00:03:02.770 --> 00:03:04.610 system is going to work the same way that it 00:03:04.610 --> 00:03:06.710 always has. You're dealing with heat transfer. 00:03:07.110 --> 00:03:10.370 You're using a refrigerant through it. So from 00:03:10.370 --> 00:03:12.590 that standpoint, you're not really looking at 00:03:12.590 --> 00:03:17.129 a drastic change. So keep it simple. The biggest 00:03:17.129 --> 00:03:20.370 thing that the biggest question that I've gotten 00:03:20.370 --> 00:03:23.889 asked is, can I retrofit an existing system to 00:03:23.889 --> 00:03:27.530 A2Ls? And the short answer to that is no, because 00:03:27.530 --> 00:03:30.530 they're mildly flammable. So you are looking 00:03:30.530 --> 00:03:34.740 at. potential equipment replacements. If you're 00:03:34.740 --> 00:03:38.139 going to go to an A2L, you know, we're going 00:03:38.139 --> 00:03:41.520 to have some transition time with it, you know, 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:43.900 because we're still seeing systems that, you 00:03:43.900 --> 00:03:45.180 know, in the air conditioning side, you're still 00:03:45.180 --> 00:03:48.039 seeing systems that have R22 in them. Oh, yeah. 00:03:49.020 --> 00:03:52.020 You know, so from that standpoint, I don't think 00:03:52.020 --> 00:03:55.520 it's going to be a radical change as far as the 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:58.229 way the systems are going to work. You know, 00:03:58.270 --> 00:04:01.389 as we move into this, don't let it intimidate 00:04:01.389 --> 00:04:03.530 you because it's not going to be, like I said, 00:04:03.610 --> 00:04:05.870 it's not going to be a radical change. Exactly. 00:04:05.870 --> 00:04:07.669 When we think about, you know, what are we doing? 00:04:08.210 --> 00:04:11.569 We're working with a refrigerant that looks much 00:04:11.569 --> 00:04:15.629 more similar to an A1 than it does an A3. You 00:04:15.629 --> 00:04:17.850 know, the potential for flammability is just 00:04:17.850 --> 00:04:20.870 near impossible. I've tried my darndest and was 00:04:20.870 --> 00:04:23.649 very disappointed. but we're adding some safety 00:04:23.649 --> 00:04:26.350 measures in that. So let's think about on the 00:04:26.350 --> 00:04:29.089 commercial refrigeration side and let's think 00:04:29.089 --> 00:04:32.930 about what obstacles we might be introducing, 00:04:33.149 --> 00:04:36.810 not even obstacles, what new perspectives are 00:04:36.810 --> 00:04:39.149 we gonna add with A12 refrigerants that might 00:04:39.149 --> 00:04:41.670 look different than we did with say an A1 refrigerant. 00:04:42.029 --> 00:04:44.189 Well, the biggest thing is first you've got to 00:04:44.189 --> 00:04:46.389 understand the classifications of refrigerant. 00:04:46.430 --> 00:04:50.290 We've been using A1s. A is the fact that it's 00:04:50.290 --> 00:04:53.129 non -toxic. When you're down in the A1 range, 00:04:53.329 --> 00:04:56.930 it's non -flammable. The B refrigerants are toxic, 00:04:57.050 --> 00:05:00.089 and the higher you go up on that number, they 00:05:00.089 --> 00:05:03.089 become anywhere from A1s, non -flammable, non 00:05:03.089 --> 00:05:06.290 -toxic, to the A2Ls are non -toxic, but only 00:05:06.290 --> 00:05:09.230 mildly flammable. Anybody that's ever used a 00:05:09.230 --> 00:05:12.689 torch on a line with existing R22 and oil in 00:05:12.689 --> 00:05:16.370 it or 410 and oil in it, it's not going to be 00:05:16.370 --> 00:05:18.649 any worse than that because it's only going to 00:05:18.649 --> 00:05:21.689 burn if there is an open ignition source. You 00:05:21.689 --> 00:05:24.370 get rid of the ignition source, the flame goes 00:05:24.370 --> 00:05:27.970 away. So the biggest thing is, is that when you 00:05:27.970 --> 00:05:30.430 service an equipment with A2Ls is use nitrogen. 00:05:30.730 --> 00:05:33.930 You should be doing that regularly anyway to 00:05:33.930 --> 00:05:37.490 eliminate the oxidation. The other thing is, 00:05:37.509 --> 00:05:40.410 if we move into the replacement and change out 00:05:40.410 --> 00:05:43.389 market, you're going to have to look at a couple 00:05:43.389 --> 00:05:48.029 of differences in piping. That's probably going 00:05:48.029 --> 00:05:50.870 to be, I think, the biggest changes. Because 00:05:50.870 --> 00:05:54.290 first of all, as I tell everyone, each refrigerant's 00:05:54.290 --> 00:05:57.769 got its own amount that it'll boil away into 00:05:57.769 --> 00:06:01.810 vapor. So I tell everybody, do yourself a favor. 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:04.740 Run your pipe sizing charts. Make sure, first 00:06:04.740 --> 00:06:07.120 of all, that the piping is the correct size because 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.459 oil return is a big issue. The oil is not going 00:06:10.459 --> 00:06:12.959 to be any different with the A2Ls than the POE 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:15.899 we've already been using. Exactly. That's not 00:06:15.899 --> 00:06:18.240 going to be a big, in my mind, that's not going 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:21.740 to be a big concern. The biggest concern is probably 00:06:21.740 --> 00:06:23.660 going to have to be that we're going to have 00:06:23.660 --> 00:06:27.379 to go to a refrigerant detection system to shut 00:06:27.379 --> 00:06:30.629 it down. and stop the refrigerant loss in the 00:06:30.629 --> 00:06:33.470 event that you have a leak. Because the difference 00:06:33.470 --> 00:06:36.470 with refrigeration is the fact that your walk 00:06:36.470 --> 00:06:38.750 -in coolers, walk -in freezers, you're in a contained 00:06:38.750 --> 00:06:42.910 area. So you're going to have to do some calculations. 00:06:43.790 --> 00:06:46.269 Fortunately, there's the ASHRAE information, 00:06:46.649 --> 00:06:50.649 ASHRAE 15 and ASHRAE 34 out there to help you 00:06:50.649 --> 00:06:53.149 calculate that. There's four or five different 00:06:53.149 --> 00:06:56.399 mitigation zones. so you just have to figure 00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:58.019 out which one you're in but i think it's going 00:06:58.019 --> 00:07:00.480 to be the piping that's going to be the biggest 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.420 difference in what you've been doing because 00:07:03.420 --> 00:07:05.600 we're going to have to have shut off valves and 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:09.959 check valves outside of the box in other words 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:12.160 if you have a leak in the evaporator and that 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:14.879 refrigerant leaks in that enclosed space you 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:17.959 want to be able to stop that and not lose any 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:22.319 more refrigerant and if you have multiple evaporators 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:24.750 you're going to have to have a piping is going 00:07:24.750 --> 00:07:26.750 to have to change to move the check valves outside 00:07:26.750 --> 00:07:29.970 of the box to each individual evaporator. That 00:07:29.970 --> 00:07:32.290 way you minimize your refrigerant leaks. So I 00:07:32.290 --> 00:07:34.750 think that's probably going to be the biggest 00:07:34.750 --> 00:07:36.670 challenge that we're going to face with this. 00:07:37.399 --> 00:07:39.040 Yeah, if we think about what are we doing with 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:41.439 mitigation, we've been using mitigation strategy 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:44.480 in gas -fired appliances since we came out with 00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:47.279 electronic ignition modules. A mitigation strategy 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:50.439 is if there is the potential for leaks, say I 00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:53.720 had a rollout limit or a pressure switch not 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:56.139 functioning on a gas appliance, what's it going 00:07:56.139 --> 00:07:57.639 to do? It's going to shut down the potential 00:07:57.639 --> 00:08:01.560 for fuel. And then it's going to run the fans 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:03.540 to dissipate and mitigate that so that there's 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:06.480 no potential for ignition. So if we think about 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:08.360 a box, right, think about a walk -in cooler or 00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:10.139 walk -in freezer, you know, we have a fairly 00:08:10.139 --> 00:08:14.000 small space. So if we were to have a release 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:15.959 of refrigerant, we just need to make sure that 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:19.709 we reduce that refrigerant. as quick as possible. 00:08:19.850 --> 00:08:22.290 And so I go back to thinking about pump down 00:08:22.290 --> 00:08:25.170 systems or anyone that's familiar with a pump 00:08:25.170 --> 00:08:27.410 down system is already familiar with what we're 00:08:27.410 --> 00:08:29.350 going to be doing with mitigation. It's just 00:08:29.350 --> 00:08:33.210 a different type of control that's going to operate 00:08:33.210 --> 00:08:36.389 that solenoid. So kind of walk us through what 00:08:36.389 --> 00:08:38.850 a mitigation would look like and say a walk -in 00:08:38.850 --> 00:08:41.649 cooler. Well, as I said, there's several different 00:08:41.649 --> 00:08:44.490 mitigation zones. The first one is if you have 00:08:44.490 --> 00:08:48.210 under the acceptable amount of releasable charge, 00:08:48.330 --> 00:08:51.730 which is usually about six to eight pounds, depending 00:08:51.730 --> 00:08:56.230 on the refrigerant. And you've got a certain 00:08:56.230 --> 00:08:57.990 amount of square footage in the box, then you 00:08:57.990 --> 00:09:00.309 don't really have to do anything because the 00:09:00.309 --> 00:09:03.029 refrigerator is heavier than air. It's all to 00:09:03.029 --> 00:09:05.929 the floor and it's only going to build up so 00:09:05.929 --> 00:09:08.809 much. Then of course you have the next mitigation 00:09:08.809 --> 00:09:12.350 zone, which is circulation. If you have Either 00:09:12.350 --> 00:09:15.269 the refrigerant detection system fails, the sensors 00:09:15.269 --> 00:09:17.070 don't work, and it says, hey, you don't have 00:09:17.070 --> 00:09:20.629 a leak, but I can't tell. Then the circulation, 00:09:20.990 --> 00:09:23.549 the evaporator fans that are already there simply 00:09:23.549 --> 00:09:25.669 have to run to keep it from pulling. Just forced 00:09:25.669 --> 00:09:30.629 on. Forced on. And then in the next mitigation 00:09:30.629 --> 00:09:33.049 zone, that would be exactly what would happen. 00:09:33.090 --> 00:09:35.690 I've got enough in here. I don't have to do anything 00:09:35.690 --> 00:09:40.320 other than turn the fans on. from there you move 00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:42.440 to the next mitigation zone which is you're going 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:45.580 to have to do some shutdown and you're going 00:09:45.580 --> 00:09:48.320 to have to stop the refrigerant flow that's where 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:52.659 the solenoid valve and the check valve come in 00:09:52.659 --> 00:09:55.000 come into play now they have to be separate valves 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:56.919 from what you're already using they have to be 00:09:56.919 --> 00:09:59.620 rated to do that check valve goes in the suction 00:09:59.620 --> 00:10:02.600 line prevents anything from the condenser coming 00:10:02.600 --> 00:10:06.519 back the refrigerant detection system would simply 00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:10.720 shut off the that solenoid valve to stop the 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:12.779 refrigerant flow and the unit would pull the 00:10:12.779 --> 00:10:15.440 refrigerant out of the evaporator and shut down 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:18.240 and your refrigerant detection system would go 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.220 off and say hey you've got a leak yeah so then 00:10:22.220 --> 00:10:26.299 from there you move into you've also got a volume 00:10:26.299 --> 00:10:29.039 in between so there's an area where the volume 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:32.990 is sufficient to take care of it the Worst one 00:10:32.990 --> 00:10:35.210 is going to be if you move into the ventilation 00:10:35.210 --> 00:10:37.330 zone. At that point, you're going to have to 00:10:37.330 --> 00:10:41.570 introduce exhaust fans and fresh air coming in. 00:10:42.070 --> 00:10:46.190 But for the most part, that's where if you size 00:10:46.190 --> 00:10:49.149 your walk -ins and the evaporators correctly, 00:10:49.409 --> 00:10:52.610 it becomes a one -to -one, one evaporator to 00:10:52.610 --> 00:10:54.789 the cooler. If you have multiple evaporators, 00:10:54.830 --> 00:10:57.950 you have an individual check valve and shutdown 00:10:57.950 --> 00:11:01.840 outside the box for each evaporator. Because 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:04.080 the odds of having multiple evaporators leak 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:06.519 are not very likely. So then you would keep it 00:11:06.519 --> 00:11:10.200 out of that mitigation zone where you need the 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:14.139 exhaust and the fresh air coming in. So understanding 00:11:14.139 --> 00:11:17.820 the mitigation zones and how they apply to the 00:11:17.820 --> 00:11:20.259 square footage of the box you're in is probably 00:11:20.259 --> 00:11:22.940 the biggest challenge. Yeah, and it's just a 00:11:22.940 --> 00:11:25.259 little bit of a learning curve. And, you know, 00:11:25.259 --> 00:11:27.340 we're going to use calculations to quickly look 00:11:27.340 --> 00:11:29.740 at the capacity of the charge. We're going to 00:11:29.740 --> 00:11:32.000 look at the space that we're in, and then we're 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:33.700 going to be able to determine what needs to be 00:11:33.700 --> 00:11:37.600 done. I myself love the idea of installing, you 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:40.500 know, the solenoid per coil plus a check valve. 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:43.080 And if we look at some of the residential strategies, 00:11:43.139 --> 00:11:45.039 some of the manufacturers are recommending doing 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:47.759 that even if it is below the required charge, 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:51.330 just as a good practice. So there's ways that 00:11:51.330 --> 00:11:52.929 we can look at that, but there'll be calculations 00:11:52.929 --> 00:11:56.769 to use to determine which is required. And anytime 00:11:56.769 --> 00:11:59.730 the manufacturer, you know, we at Heatcraft, 00:11:59.769 --> 00:12:02.889 we put a lot of emphasis on the A2Ls and training 00:12:02.889 --> 00:12:06.789 for A2Ls because we don't want anybody to say, 00:12:06.830 --> 00:12:08.909 well, I'm afraid to use it or I don't want to 00:12:08.909 --> 00:12:10.990 use it because we're going to move that direction. 00:12:11.149 --> 00:12:14.230 The industry has already geared towards that. 00:12:14.289 --> 00:12:17.549 Everyone is going to be doing that. So, you know, 00:12:17.590 --> 00:12:21.250 we... I remember in the early 90s when we moved 00:12:21.250 --> 00:12:24.090 to recovery and moved to 410 and everything else, 00:12:24.129 --> 00:12:26.629 there was an intimidation factor out there because 00:12:26.629 --> 00:12:29.210 it was unknown. So the biggest thing with this 00:12:29.210 --> 00:12:31.950 is I think the more we learn about it, the more 00:12:31.950 --> 00:12:35.669 we understand it and what we have to do, we're 00:12:35.669 --> 00:12:39.169 hoping to take that intimidation factor away 00:12:39.169 --> 00:12:42.769 because knowledge is key. It sure is. One of 00:12:42.769 --> 00:12:44.730 the things that you had mentioned is we're actually... 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:47.940 at Heatcraft going above and beyond the required 00:12:47.940 --> 00:12:51.600 detection. Whereas, you know, there's a required 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:54.740 that if we hit that 25 % LFL that we're required 00:12:54.740 --> 00:12:57.399 to go into mitigation. But you're actually going 00:12:57.399 --> 00:13:01.519 into like a pre -mitigation, like a warning stage 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:04.179 beforehand, before you would ever get to that 00:13:04.179 --> 00:13:06.379 point. Knowing that we've got perishable products, 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:10.179 we're actually going to have some indicator beforehand. 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:13.389 Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, that's 00:13:13.389 --> 00:13:17.409 correct. Because first of all, I think at 25%, 00:13:17.409 --> 00:13:20.289 you have to go into the mitigation. You've got 00:13:20.289 --> 00:13:23.929 a leak. If you've hit 25 % of the LFL, okay, 00:13:23.990 --> 00:13:27.169 we have to go into mitigation. Of course, you 00:13:27.169 --> 00:13:29.409 know, you have sensors in the coil to tell you 00:13:29.409 --> 00:13:31.509 that it's leaking. You've got an RDS system. 00:13:31.649 --> 00:13:34.730 One of the things that we're doing is we're giving 00:13:34.730 --> 00:13:37.549 you a warning at about 6 % to 7 % that it goes 00:13:37.549 --> 00:13:40.809 off and says, hey, there's a leak. You're going 00:13:40.809 --> 00:13:42.909 to have to address this, but now you've got some 00:13:42.909 --> 00:13:46.690 time. Exactly. Between when you initiate that 00:13:46.690 --> 00:13:49.710 leak response, which is nothing but a warning 00:13:49.710 --> 00:13:52.529 to say the equipment's still working. You've 00:13:52.529 --> 00:13:54.730 got a refrigerant leak. Hey, go ahead and deal 00:13:54.730 --> 00:13:57.490 with this before you reach the shutdown. Because 00:13:57.490 --> 00:14:01.169 anybody that has dealt with critical refrigeration 00:14:01.169 --> 00:14:06.350 installation knows that anyone stands to lose 00:14:06.350 --> 00:14:08.970 a lot of product. or a lot of whatever it is 00:14:08.970 --> 00:14:11.990 that they've got in that walk -in that's critical 00:14:11.990 --> 00:14:14.889 you know it's nice to know that you're going 00:14:14.889 --> 00:14:17.090 to have a problem that you can deal with now 00:14:17.090 --> 00:14:20.009 before you lose that refrigeration so that the 00:14:20.009 --> 00:14:22.850 customer's got time to deal with it you know 00:14:22.850 --> 00:14:26.299 working in a lot of Grocery refrigeration. We've 00:14:26.299 --> 00:14:28.559 had refrigerant detection sensors in the compressor 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:32.440 rack rooms for decades. And I've always thought, 00:14:32.500 --> 00:14:34.639 boy, it'd sure be nice if we had these in our 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:39.259 evaporators as well to be able to look for refrigerant 00:14:39.259 --> 00:14:42.700 leaks before they become an emergency or a high 00:14:42.700 --> 00:14:45.820 priority. And so by doing that at that very low 00:14:45.820 --> 00:14:48.539 LFL, if there is a small leak, I mean, 6%, 7%, 00:14:48.539 --> 00:14:51.500 that's a very small leak in a contained space. 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:54.159 So it's going to give us a lot of indication 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:57.980 beforehand so we have time to call, get on that 00:14:57.980 --> 00:15:00.360 schedule, get a technician out and determine 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:04.000 where that issue is. In many cases, we find flares 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:07.620 or things that are repairable with minimal downtime 00:15:07.620 --> 00:15:11.500 versus waiting until it's hit that 25 % LFL and 00:15:11.500 --> 00:15:14.179 it shuts down our refrigerant flow and goes into 00:15:14.179 --> 00:15:18.039 mitigation. Right. And of course, like you said, 00:15:18.100 --> 00:15:20.200 we've been using refrigerant detection systems 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:22.919 for years. If you've ever worked in any enclosed 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:25.820 environment, the basement of buildings, anything 00:15:25.820 --> 00:15:28.919 where there's been the possibility of accumulating 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:32.259 refrigerant, they're already out there. We're 00:15:32.259 --> 00:15:37.740 just simply adapting them to go into our unit 00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:41.519 coolers, into the evaporators. So it's not going 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:44.919 to be any great leap in technology. It's just... 00:15:45.179 --> 00:15:47.620 a few little things that we're going to have 00:15:47.620 --> 00:15:51.460 to do differently. Because one of the things 00:15:51.460 --> 00:15:54.419 that we're doing is dual compatibility with our 00:15:54.419 --> 00:16:01.659 girls. As we call it here, what we're doing is 00:16:01.659 --> 00:16:03.659 that we're making the evaporators where they're 00:16:03.659 --> 00:16:07.139 dual rated. You can buy an evaporator, do a change 00:16:07.139 --> 00:16:11.500 out, use it for your existing A1 refrigerants, 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.759 or you can buy that evaporator. set up for the 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:19.620 A2Ls. So with our intelligent control system, 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:23.659 we simply, you can get it either already installed 00:16:23.659 --> 00:16:27.100 for the A2Ls with an A2L evaporator, or you can 00:16:27.100 --> 00:16:30.100 then add the refrigerant detection kit, simply 00:16:30.100 --> 00:16:33.460 plug it into the intelligent control. If you 00:16:33.460 --> 00:16:35.879 fail to put the RDS on and you try to select 00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:38.000 an A2L refrigerant, it's going to say, hey, I 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:40.139 need the RDS kit. So it's going to tell you that 00:16:40.139 --> 00:16:42.580 you have to have it. So that's going to make 00:16:42.580 --> 00:16:46.350 it nice because Rather than buying a piece of 00:16:46.350 --> 00:16:48.710 equipment and say, well, it's already outdated. 00:16:49.490 --> 00:16:51.490 You know, we're going to be able to have that 00:16:51.490 --> 00:16:54.549 dual refrigerant capability with what we're making. 00:16:54.830 --> 00:16:57.149 I was fortunate enough to get a chance to take 00:16:57.149 --> 00:17:00.110 a look at that at AHR this year. And from a service 00:17:00.110 --> 00:17:02.629 technician, that is like, that's a dream come 00:17:02.629 --> 00:17:04.369 true for a product. You know, because if we look 00:17:04.369 --> 00:17:06.910 at, you know, previous refrigerant generations, 00:17:07.170 --> 00:17:08.730 you know, when we were making these refrigerant 00:17:08.730 --> 00:17:11.779 transitions. you know it was a significant change 00:17:11.779 --> 00:17:15.019 in on operating pressures so we would have one 00:17:15.019 --> 00:17:18.039 evaporator coil for the existing refrigerants 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:19.980 that we were using and one evaporator coil for 00:17:19.980 --> 00:17:21.759 the new refrigerants and new metering devices 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:25.119 and so like you'd mentioned this isn't as significant 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.539 as a change as we've seen in the past it's just 00:17:27.539 --> 00:17:30.200 a little bit different because of operating on 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:32.619 very similar pressures we can utilize a coil 00:17:32.619 --> 00:17:36.339 that would operate on either so whether i'm doing 00:17:36.339 --> 00:17:39.259 a new installation Or whether I'm doing a coil 00:17:39.259 --> 00:17:42.359 replacement on an A1 refrigerant or a coil replacement 00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:46.039 on an A2L, I have one product that will fit all 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:49.720 three categories. Correct. Now, you know, one 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:53.059 of the things that I tell a lot of the classes 00:17:53.059 --> 00:17:55.799 that I teach and technicians that I run into 00:17:55.799 --> 00:18:00.059 is do your homework. Because the contractors 00:18:00.059 --> 00:18:03.369 that do learn about this ahead of time. They 00:18:03.369 --> 00:18:05.569 educate their customers because it's the end 00:18:05.569 --> 00:18:08.009 user that's going to be turning to them to say, 00:18:08.089 --> 00:18:12.190 hey, I need help here. What do I do? And let's 00:18:12.190 --> 00:18:14.390 face it, that our technicians that are out there 00:18:14.390 --> 00:18:17.430 in the field are usually the first point of contact 00:18:17.430 --> 00:18:19.470 with the customer. They're the one telling them, 00:18:19.549 --> 00:18:22.650 you've got a problem. Here's what's wrong. And 00:18:22.650 --> 00:18:26.299 the sooner you offer them a solution. Because 00:18:26.299 --> 00:18:28.740 what we used to, one of the things that we did 00:18:28.740 --> 00:18:30.859 when I was in the field is we had what we called 00:18:30.859 --> 00:18:33.759 planned obsolescence. We knew how old the equipment 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:36.059 was. We kept a list of it with the customers. 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:38.819 As we would make recommendations, you do your 00:18:38.819 --> 00:18:41.079 maintenance, you say, here's the list of things 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:44.019 that could possibly go wrong with this. Here's 00:18:44.019 --> 00:18:46.559 what we're recommending doing. Because if they 00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:48.640 can budget for this ahead of time, it's going 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:50.579 to make it a lot easier. And when you become 00:18:50.579 --> 00:18:53.559 the expert that your customer can count on, it's 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:55.799 going to make your life and theirs a lot easier. 00:18:56.460 --> 00:18:59.880 So we try to provide as much information as we 00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:04.200 can. And that's kind of my job here is to present 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:07.059 the service tech's point of view, you know, to 00:19:07.059 --> 00:19:10.440 us as a manufacturer. Because I know what makes 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:12.680 my life easier in the field and what I prefer 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:16.029 to do and use. I love that. That's the whole 00:19:16.029 --> 00:19:19.990 reason I've chose to be in this role is from 00:19:19.990 --> 00:19:22.990 a technician perspective. How does these things 00:19:22.990 --> 00:19:24.849 look? How do these changes look? What do you 00:19:24.849 --> 00:19:28.029 need to know? So when we pair with equipment 00:19:28.029 --> 00:19:31.730 manufacturers like Heatcraft, who's trying to 00:19:31.730 --> 00:19:34.210 get the information out to the industry, all 00:19:34.210 --> 00:19:36.569 you need to do to be a successful contractor 00:19:36.569 --> 00:19:40.319 is to be educated. to understand the difference 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:42.980 and present it to your customer. That's all we've 00:19:42.980 --> 00:19:46.500 ever really done. So I worry about the contractors 00:19:46.500 --> 00:19:48.500 that are going to struggle with this transition 00:19:48.500 --> 00:19:50.740 when they go to buy that first new piece of equipment 00:19:50.740 --> 00:19:52.180 and go, wait a minute, this looks different. 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:54.259 What's going on here? Versus the one that goes, 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:56.519 I've been waiting for you and I know that you're 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:58.660 not that different. So come on, let's go do this 00:19:58.660 --> 00:20:01.940 installation. One of the things that we're doing 00:20:01.940 --> 00:20:06.400 is creating a series of almost did you know videos 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:08.720 that you will be able to access on our website 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.500 to get this information out there. They're going 00:20:11.500 --> 00:20:14.200 to be in quick, easy to see modules. That's something 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:16.619 that we're building. We're putting this out there 00:20:16.619 --> 00:20:20.019 to make the technician's life easier because 00:20:20.019 --> 00:20:23.200 information is golden. When you know going in 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:26.640 what I'm facing, what I have to do, the intimidation 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:30.140 factor goes away because there's always, I've 00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:33.019 always heard, oh, I'll retire before I have to. 00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:36.319 to face that change or do that. And technology 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:39.160 is changing at such a rapid pace right now. We 00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:42.319 have to keep up. And education is, you know, 00:20:42.339 --> 00:20:45.299 it's important to me. I've always been that guy 00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:47.200 that the technicians have come to that says, 00:20:47.299 --> 00:20:48.980 hey, what are we going to do? And it was my job 00:20:48.980 --> 00:20:51.740 to get the information and find it. So that fits 00:20:51.740 --> 00:20:55.329 in nicely with my role here at HeatCraft. Yeah, 00:20:55.329 --> 00:20:57.950 absolutely. I really look forward to those videos. 00:20:58.009 --> 00:21:00.190 I'll be sharing them like crazy when we get to 00:21:00.190 --> 00:21:03.410 that point. So, Justin, tell us a little bit 00:21:03.410 --> 00:21:06.210 about the training that HeatCraft offers and 00:21:06.210 --> 00:21:08.049 how people can learn more about the training 00:21:08.049 --> 00:21:10.450 opportunities. Well, first of all, you can visit 00:21:10.450 --> 00:21:12.609 our website and you can look at our training 00:21:12.609 --> 00:21:15.170 schedule. We do several things. First of all, 00:21:15.170 --> 00:21:18.829 we have training that... Well, let me say this 00:21:18.829 --> 00:21:21.609 first. We're putting a big emphasis on training. 00:21:21.750 --> 00:21:24.130 Over the course of the next year, we're going 00:21:24.130 --> 00:21:26.710 to be building a new training facility here to 00:21:26.710 --> 00:21:31.009 greatly expand what we do. So we offer classes 00:21:31.009 --> 00:21:35.009 here at Stone Mountain, classes on our intelligent 00:21:35.009 --> 00:21:38.930 controls, our electronic defrost controls. We 00:21:38.930 --> 00:21:44.519 also offer basic education. After being in the 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:46.960 field, I realized that even students coming out 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:48.680 of a tech school that are getting ready to break 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:50.799 into the industry, they haven't really learned 00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:52.960 how to read diagrams and troubleshoot to the 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:55.299 point that's really going to benefit them. So 00:21:55.299 --> 00:21:59.059 we offer everything from a basic refrigeration 00:21:59.059 --> 00:22:01.519 and installation to a troubleshooting course 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:05.960 to specifics. all the way up to CO2 and we're 00:22:05.960 --> 00:22:08.200 going to be developing classes for racks and 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:11.019 as time moves forward I think we'll really be 00:22:11.019 --> 00:22:14.599 able to offer some some nice in -house training 00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:17.440 but we also take it remotely. I'll be traveling 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:20.880 to Texas next week to do a two -day training 00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.980 for some technicians. through one of our distributors 00:22:23.980 --> 00:22:26.519 there we've been traveling all over the country 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:29.579 to put these classes on as we've had the request 00:22:29.579 --> 00:22:32.619 and now what we're doing is we've got a new development 00:22:32.619 --> 00:22:35.720 coordinator that's taking our courses breaking 00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:38.880 them down into smaller sections putting them 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:42.039 on our website so that people can go in and say 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:44.220 well i got 20 or 30 minutes i want to find out 00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:48.250 about this and so That's really the direction 00:22:48.250 --> 00:22:50.529 that we're heading is trying to get that information 00:22:50.529 --> 00:22:54.329 out there, make it easier for people to take 00:22:54.329 --> 00:22:56.450 it in small chunks and just not get overwhelmed 00:22:56.450 --> 00:22:58.869 with it. Yeah, you're right. That's it. A little 00:22:58.869 --> 00:23:00.890 modular training. Take it in small chunks and 00:23:00.890 --> 00:23:04.490 take it as often as you need and as comfortable 00:23:04.490 --> 00:23:06.170 as you need when you have that time available. 00:23:06.329 --> 00:23:08.309 No, it's absolutely what we need in the industry. 00:23:09.289 --> 00:23:11.710 Well, Justin Bailey, technical trainer for HeatCraft, 00:23:11.789 --> 00:23:14.130 I sure appreciate you joining us. And for those 00:23:14.130 --> 00:23:16.250 that want to learn more, I encourage you to go 00:23:16.250 --> 00:23:22.009 over to the website, HeatCraftRPD .com. Thank 00:23:22.009 --> 00:23:24.390 you, sir, for your time. You're absolutely welcome. 00:23:24.549 --> 00:23:25.190 It's been a pleasure.