Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining Did You
Know, the ESCO HVAC podcast. This episode brought
to you by HVAC ProBlog. Learn more at HVACProBlog
.com. All right, everyone. We appreciate you
joining us and spending some time today. We're
hanging out with Chris Morin. Chris, how are
you, sir? I'm doing great. Thank you so much
for having me, Clifton. You know, no, it's an
honor. I mean, I've been watching your stuff
for a long time. We just finally recently had
the opportunity to catch up and, you know, see
where each other's at in this whole like crazy
social media HVAC world that has kind of became
the norm in the last few years. You know, if
you look back like five years ago, there wasn't
a whole lot of quality content. There's a few
pretty big. big names out there, but it was kind
of focused, right? It was just honed in on certain
aspects of the industry. And I love it now because
we have all these different voices and these
different backgrounds and different perspectives.
So Chris, tell me a little bit about your background
because it sculpts who you are and what you offer
back to the industry. It does. Yeah. So obviously
a lot of the stuff that I offer is through my
own personal experience, whether good or bad,
right? So I started in HVAC when I was 16. I
got my first job. I actually... Went to vocational
school like a lot of people in the trade. I thought
I was going to be a cook. So I did one semester
of culinary arts. I got an A. It was awesome.
Except it was the most boring thing I ever did,
right? My uncle's a cook, so I got to be careful,
I'm sure. But my father was in the business and
so were my friends. They were in that particular
trade. So it was easy for me to transition, right?
So I got my first co -op job right around 16,
17. And I realized it was a lot of broken down
guys with bad knees and stuff. climbing around
attics. I thought, man, I got to get out of here
before I end up like that. Right. So I couldn't
afford college. So I thought I was going to go
in the military to pay for college. Right. My
grand plan was going to be an electrician. Right.
I was going to get the hours in the Marine Corps.
They're going to make my electrician. But unfortunately,
they made me a refrigeration mechanic. So at
that point, I just embraced it. You know, exactly.
Service tech, service manager. I worked for a
utility program implementer teaching quality
installation. And then most recently, before
I did this full time, I worked for 10 years at
Mitsubishi Electric. So I was a business development
manager there before I left in the Northeast.
Fantastic. So quite a bit of background. And
a lot of the background that you use comes from
the military experience, right? We're going to
spend a little bit of time talking about your
book and talking about how you're helping the
industry, especially from a lot of lessons learned.
And I know a lot of these are stories that really
kind of shape. like who we are as individuals,
right? Like life lessons. And one particular
story in your book about standing your guard
sets a narrative. Let's talk about that for just
a minute. Yeah, I think you must be talking about
Wayne. I interviewed Wayne Dvorak. He was on
guard. Boy, this was quite some time ago. I don't
want to give away Wayne's age. So a general pulled
up, didn't have the necessary pass to get into
his area. It was a high security area. And he
really had some struggle with non -negotiables,
right? So he, when it comes to standing his ground
and having integrity, really was a huge test
for Wayne. And I think that translates really
well to our industry. but uh basically he he
didn't let the general in uh the general didn't
have the credentials and it was and it was a
top secret area and uh it at the time it didn't
look well for wayne right uh but it worked out
in his favor because the general realized that's
the guy that we want on guard right so uh that
translates pretty well you know when it comes
to having integrity in our trade so it's really
easy to sell an oversized system because it's
easier to then having the conversation with the
homeowner right or selling an undersized system
because it's cheaper right there should be a
level of integrity that you're upholding right
things where you're not going to cut corners
and you're not going to compromise safety or
performance obviously right but if you want to
earn respect in the trade then integrity builds
that foundation for your business you know I
believe that just as people in general, you know,
you go through a variety of different words that
have lost meaning that used to be very impactful
words when you were, you know, becoming a man
or a young woman and, you know, becoming that
leader, right? It all kind of comes back into
a form of leadership. I hear a lot of words,
integrity, justice, tact. These are all important
words for me myself. I didn't go to the military.
I was supposed to. It's funny because I was supposed
to go to the Army for electrical. And I had a
friend of mine, a female friend of mine that
had encouraged me not to. So I didn't go. But
my father was a Marine. My brother is a Marine.
And I learned to speak. I get this question a
lot. It's like, where did I learn how to speak?
It was a learned skill set. I learned it in the
Masonic Lodge. So when I hear these terms, you
know, like justice and integrity, those are things
that have been. important in the sculpting of
who I am because it really it crafts us as individuals
and how we present ourself and how we deliver
ourselves whether it's individually or whether
it is as a company it really comes down to a
lot of those key principles like that concept
of justice right yeah let's dive into that yeah
yeah so justice one of the first uh traits that
i talk about in the book right so if you didn't
know in the marine corps they teach you the leadership
traits very early in training and there's an
acronym like everything else in the military
right and the acronym is uh jj did ty buckle
right so that acronym there's a there's a letter
for each trait so justice is the first one justice
judgment decisiveness right that's what the acronym
stands for and uh what's interesting is justice
it's not complicated right the problem with justice
is it's challenging and i think when it comes
to the hvac trade the best way to really make
sure that you're holding on to justice is really
starting with documentation of your policies
and not having ambiguity uh and and letting it
cause inconsistency if that makes sense i don't
want to use a lot of big words here right i want
to make sure that you guys know like You know,
I've seen a lot of crayons, buddy. This is a
paint. No, it's making sense completely to me.
Yeah. No worries. Yeah. Actually in the Marines,
we always joke Marines eat crayons. Right. So,
so anyway, so I've seen a lot of owners, they
make decisions based on their mood or their gut
feeling rather than principles. Right. And that,
that inconsistency is what really erodes trust.
Right. I think that's, that's really where justice.
can be a part of your leadership or it can be
a problem for your leadership right and i think
the hardest test there is when like your best
performer when they break one of those rules
right so how are you going to handle it is it
going to be different for your best performer
because you don't want to lose them that's true
or is it going to be consistent you know and
if you're consistent then you're going to shine
as a leader right and if you if you make exceptions
for your stars then it's one of those things
where It's just, you know, it's a rule that's
rarely enforced and it's only for these people,
right? It destroys morale, creates resentment.
It's a problem. It's not justice. It's inconsistency
at that point. Sure. You know, kind of leads
into like another word that you have an entire
chapter on called tact, right? Yeah. I left because
I was a service tech and a service manager. So
we struggle the most with tech, I think. Yeah.
And a lot of people don't understand exactly
what that is. So tell us, you know, as we're
talking about integrity and building things around
justice and that consistency, right? Having a
place where we truly feel like there's a process
and a procedure for things and I'm going to be
treated justfully. We also have to do it tactfully.
Yeah. Yeah. I think the key for tact is not like
avoiding the truth. That's not having tact, right?
It's delivering the message effectively. So like
if I train somebody about and I want to talk
about tact, I'm going to talk about the bridge
method. And really, when you start talking about
the bridge method, what you want to do with a
salesperson is like you want the salesperson
to acknowledge. what the customer knows right
and then bridge to additional considerations
and then guide them toward a better solution
because it's not like it's not about proving
them wrong or um you know showing your dominance
and that sort of thing it's about expanding their
perspective yeah right and that you can do that
with tact you can't do that if you're trying
to be the smartest person in the room right and
i think you know technicians unfortunately have
this label uh we tend to get a little too blunt
as far as what we see for the previous contractors
work or the previous person, even at my, my own
company. Right. And yeah. And if it, if you don't
deliver that message with tack, like even if
we mess something up, they, you know, customers
should know that, but if you say it the wrong
way, it totally erodes trust. And are they going
to trust somebody else to come back? And then
sure. You're the hero, but. You're the only hero
now. You're on your own. I learned that early
on, like where somebody will wait for the service
manager. They don't want anybody else to do maintenance
on their equipment or we'll find another company
because my guys didn't have tact, you know? So
and, you know, I think. residential it's it's
more common as far as the need for that because
you're in so many homes and you're dealing with
the homeowner i think you know if you ever shift
over to commercial i think that uh those guys
don't have to interact with the building owner
owners often you know so having a little less
tech probably isn't a big problem you can still
make it You know, residential, you've got to
have it if you want to make every job in residential.
Yeah. You know, in the commercial, that's where
I spent most of my time was in commercial refrigeration,
commercial building automations. And so as long
as you had a good rapport, you know, with the
manager of that property or, you know, the manager
of the store, it was pretty easy. But when you
talk about like residential, especially on the
service side, right, it is a. different manager
every time and that tact comes into play especially
now more than ever as we see so many you know
larger private equity companies buying up mid
-size you know family -owned companies and trying
to maintain that tact in the way that we serve
our customers. And it's a lot of lessons to learn
because it can be a big transition when you have
a corporate entity that purchases and goes, all
right, this is our product of the month. And
at the same time, you have to go, but I'm here
to deliver a solution for my consumer, my homeowner.
So there's a lot to be said. I'm glad you did
a whole chapter on that because there's a lot
of things you can dive into that. Go ahead, go
ahead. No, I was just gonna say, as we're building,
right? So we're talking about building, you know,
these are the foundation blocks for personality,
right? And so we start focusing on tact, well,
then we understand what it is. Now, how do we
deliver it? Yeah. How are we gonna take some
initiative to do this? Yeah, this is one of those
things where like, try to say this, you know.
The communication and making it a part of your
training and having a feedback loop is important,
right? So I hate to say it, but like, and every
technician is going to hate me for saying this,
but role play really helps you with tact because
it becomes part of your conversation and how
you're delivering it. And, you know, unless you
record yourself and hear it, you're not going
to have the same feedback or understand, you
know, because, you know, I might be. overly exaggerating
my, you know, roll my eyes or something like
that. I wouldn't even know because it's not coming
out of my mouth, but the other person picks it
up. Right. And, you know, I think if you're a
technician, technical experts, they try to, they
try to make the mistake or they often make the
mistake of switching into like a lecture mode.
Right. So instead of asking questions and helping
them, you know, discover limitations, they try
to. tell somebody what they need right instead
of helping them find that right and i think if
you're if you're asking questions and you're
genuinely actively listening then you can you
can actually have tact in that conversation if
not even if you're trying to deliver it with
tact it comes across very ingenuine because you're
not actively listening right so you're just thinking
about the next thing you're going to say and
uh and Try to be smart. Right. And unfortunately,
it comes back to haunt a lot of people. I think
a great example would be like, you know, every
customer right now thinks many splits are the
answer for their house. Right. And in some cases
they are. Right. Douglas, I sold it for 10 years.
Right. So I could I could force that into any
application you want. But instead of just saying,
yeah, maybe like you start. with like, you've
clearly done your research on efficiency, which
is fantastic. Let's see how we can achieve that
efficiency if we consider the layout of your
homes and the comfort pattern needs, right? And
then introduce all of the solutions because it's
possible, ductless is the answer for that particular
customer. And, you know, if they already have
an existing duct system, I think there's a way
of working that into the conversation to to help
them understand there's other options. And as
opposed to, no, you don't want to do ductless,
right? You have a ducted system. It's a waste
of money if you do ductless. Are you just going
to leave that? I mean, there's a lot of things
that come across that from a technician or a
salesperson that if you're not working on it,
can be viewed as untactful for sure. I believe
one of the best tools that any technician can
have is their smartphone. Yeah. Think about that
whole. Conversation. You know, you're sitting
here. How am I going to present this to the homeowner?
You're sitting in a van or a vehicle with closed
windows and you may have somebody with you. You
may not. The worst you can do is pick up your
phone, set it on the dash. Record yourself in
that conversation and play it back. We're only
talking a couple of minutes to be able to see
how you're going to be received to that homeowner.
I use it all the time. It's the first thing that
I tell people they need to do if they're going
to be on a podcast or a show of any type. Record
yourself first. Listen to how you present yourself
and then see if anything needs to be changed.
There's nothing more humbling than that. No,
we're our best critics. Yeah, when you start
doing your own video editing, oh my gosh. So
yeah, you really start to appreciate the editing
and the people that do that for you sometimes.
Yeah, and I know how so many technicians are
already TikTok -ing. Just use that time wisely.
Instead of putting up the TikTok, what you had
for lunch, do that presentation. How am I going
to go talk to Mrs. Jones about this system that
she has? You know, it's funny, on that, driving
around the car, obviously I... listen to a lot
of podcasts a lot of books things like that but
in the marine corps what's interesting is is
once you reach a certain rank you're expected
to lead physical training and you know uh march
platoons and stuff and the marine corps doesn't
teach anybody how to be a singer so uh what i
learned was you can actually set your windshield
wipers to a certain speed and you can learn cadence
that way so i'd be you know windows up driving
around North Carolina. It's not raining, but
the windshield wipers are going. I'm yelling
away, learning, you know, learning how to spin
cadence. So yeah, it's amazing what you can do
when those windows go up and nobody can hear
you. So it's a huge opportunity for yourself.
You know, we've talked about integrity. We've
talked about doing things tactfully. Let's also
talk about like having a bearing. I know one
of the stories you have is using a paperclip
to jumper a faulty switch. during Operation Iraqi
Freedom. But let's talk about, though, like how
bearing plays into the role of personal development.
Yeah, I think in that instance, you have to ask
yourself if that solution is creative or is it
just risky? Yeah, yeah. So that actually was
creative. I can tell you we were in the middle
of nowhere. That was actually the invasion of
Iraq. We had a generator fail and we had to risk.
either sending that thing back, which obviously
when you start sending something back from the
front line, introduces all these problems, right?
And I grabbed the wiring diagram, traced it out
and figured out, hey, it's that plastic switch
that wasn't designed for sandstorms. So I think
delivering that information and having the trust
in yourself. to know that it's a creative solution
and it wasn't a risky solution. The risky solution
was sending that generator back. So I think being
able to face that situation when there's no textbook
solution and being confident with it and delivering
it the right way is having bearing. You know,
I think the best HVAC companies kind of create
environments where technicians share these solutions.
and they don't keep them as like personal trade
secret secrets right like i would never go around
telling every generator mechanic how i jumped
out this switch right and actually it's funny
right above my desk i they gave me a navy achievement
medal for it um i don't i mean yeah i i guess
it's one of those things where we did what we
had to do right and um I still believe it was
the right solution until we can get a better
answer down the road. And I think that's the
difference, right? Professional bearing during
that creative problem solving is crucial in order
for it to be adopted. So yeah, I think bearing
is a tough one to teach, but I think it boils
down to comfort and trusting yourself. in order
to deliver that message right so otherwise if
i didn't have any bearing man to explain that
to to the to the troops yeah yeah here's the
paper clip good luck well i i think about you
know any business owner right now you know that
has Based on the product brand of choice that
they have, whatever their primarily brand dealership
is, they have to have bearing as they're having
hard discussions with their technicians right
now on product availability and refrigerant availability
and refrigerant detection sensors and proper
best practices and reviewing tools. So a lot
of that goes into having... You know, having
the ability to keep a bearing for your company,
knowing that there's going to be change, right?
Because it's one of the things you mentioned
is that, you know, like the HVAC industry is
never, never static, right? There's always things
that are changing and being a part of a team
where you have bearing and you know that there's
going to be problems and you're going to get
through it, you know, and you're going to have
a method for doing that is very crucial. Tell
us a little bit about that section of the book.
Yeah, I think what you're talking about is knowledge,
right? And, you know, knowledge in our industry
is it's never static. If you stop going to classes,
the industry just passes you by. We see that
with, you know, just efficiency changes or refrigerant
changes or code changes, you name it. It's a
very dynamic industry, which makes it very interesting
and lucrative, right? But knowledge development,
it needs structure. it's just not intent like
it has to be a priority for your company and
your technicians and they need to show up wanting
to learn right or it's just going to be a check
in the box and it's not going to make the difference
for you so it's really easy when things get busy
to you know knock off the Wednesday morning that
you used to have for knowledge right or whatever
meeting you want to call it um and you know there's
different levels of knowledge too which i talk
about in the book i usually have a three -layer
approach so there's a fundamental knowledge right
where it's like refrigeration principles and
building science yeah yeah and then there's the
current technology training right so equipment
specifics and control systems right and then
of course there's the emerging trends right and
i think that's the piece that i think a lot of
people don't keep up on until it's already there
and i think the businesses that do really well
with the latest and greatest are the ones that
make time and schedule time for that third piece
the emerging trend piece so heat pumps integration
with smart homes things like that right maybe
having a partner that does solar there's a lot
of things um that are coming down the road that
you know are really part of a big home services
company these days. So me personally, I block
out Friday mornings for new technology stuff.
Sometimes it's listening to a podcast, right?
If it's a new technology related, sometimes it's
reading articles, YouTube videos. I use some
AI stuff to help me do it fast. So there's some
things out there like Recall and a few other
AI tools to help the research. But AI is not
creating this. They're just... They're summarizing,
you know, so it's important to use those tools
out there for you, especially when it comes to
knowledge. Yeah, it's definitely for research
purposes. It's a tool in that. But, you know,
what you're saying really all comes down to,
especially when you're looking at, you know,
being prepared for new technologies and new innovations.
It's about having endurance as a company and
even as a technician. Right. You know, this this
serves not only that business owner, but that
technician that strives to be. you know, a high
end technician, you know, the best in their field.
You know, it's a matter of endurance, right?
It's because it's constantly going to change.
If we get stagnant, if we start getting to that
point where we accept that, you know, what are,
what is around me is all that there is ever going
to be. We're not going to be successful. And
so having endurance to get over it. Yeah. Yeah.
It's a big part. Right. And actually that's the
last of the traits in my book. I think the most
resilient HVAC companies, they first build a
strong financial system. Right. So they have
cash reserves. They can handle seasonal fluctuations.
unexpected market shifts like we've seen recently
right depending on when you air this uh i think
you know they can do really well in the busy
seasons but they might burn through all of their
their cash in the in the winter because they
didn't um they didn't think about that right
they didn't have the endurance when it came to
that but if you have that built in place then
really the next piece there is cross training
if you want to be a good technician And actually,
this is far beyond just the HVAC trade. If you
want to be good at your job, no matter what you're
doing, by cross -training, you're making yourself
the most valuable employee, right? So they can't
let you go, right? It's your choice to leave
at that point, right? So it's really about operational
endurance then, right? So every critical function
in the business needs to have a backup person
that can step in. There's many times where the
lead technician... works himself into the ground
60, 70 hours that week, and you just can't come
in. He's on call. Yeah, I've been there, too,
you know, to the point. Actually, I was a pretty
good technician when I was younger, maybe because
I moved faster. I don't know. But I gave myself
mono senior year high school. Right. I was working
three jobs and I was on call. I thought I was
Superman. You know, so my mom said it was from
something different than working too hard. But
I. So but when I'm in service teams, we have
like systematic training. So no single person's
absence could cripple the operation, right? Like
we didn't shut down jobs because one person got
sick. Like if the whole team did. i mean that
happens right exactly um it shouldn't be the
norm though right um and then also to documentation
that i think that's a big thing that builds organizational
endurance right so if somebody leaves they don't
take that organization with them uh if you have
some sort of um you know, manual process when
it comes to how we do installations. It's written
down. This becomes a standard we teach to. This
is the standard we hold everybody to when it
comes to raises and that sort of thing. Right.
So it becomes a, you know, a way where knowledge
loss when someone's gone doesn't hurt your company,
you know, because there is going to be turnover.
Sometimes people leave for bigger and better
things. I felt. Sometimes I regretted leaving
places, but other times I felt like there was
no more there for me unless I was going to be
the owner. And it's a small business. I was never
going to be the owner. So it was time for me
to move on and give somebody else the opportunity,
you know? And hopefully I trained somebody well
enough to jump in because I documented all that
stuff, right? So that was the idea anyway. No,
all fantastic. you know, stories and, you know,
realistic business practices, all part of your
new book. Tell us about this book and other resources
and training opportunities that you have. Thanks,
Clifton. Yeah, so actually just released exclusively
on Amazon. It's Leadership in HVAC. uh applying
marine corps leadership traits to residential
contracting so um it's in the 175 page range
but it's a little larger print for those that
need the glasses i think it's a great resource
so it's one of those things where um if you really
want to work on being a good leader which you
know our trade makes really good technicians
really good installers even really good sales
people but uh being a leader you really have
to work on right and i think it's a good resource
to revisit all the time it's not one of those
things you just read and put it away because
i took the one thing away from it i want it to
be almost like a workbook for you right so in
the back there's actually a five -step process
for implementing leadership traits that i walk
through start with an assessment identify the
most common things right there's a five -step
process that after you understand what each one
is You can kind of grade yourself and see what
you need to work on and where to implement. So
I give you some good advice in there. You know,
that's not the only thing I teach, right? That's
what I wrote based on personal experience. I'm
actually an ACCA EPIC instructor. So locally,
I've known mostly for my system design trainings.
So I teach manuals J and S, manual D in duct
diagnostics. I have an online. virtual masterclass
that I tend to run. The last one this spring,
though, we just kicked off for this month. So
we won't be offering that again until the fall.
We obviously know that most technicians and salespeople
are a little busy in the summertime in the United
States. So we hold off during the summer for
those. But I do offer coaching and consulting
as well. So if somebody is interested in learning
to be a better leader or fixing some stuff in
their process or just starting to create processes,
I think you'll find that's one of my expertises.
I happen to be a certified professional coach
too. And where can we learn more? Oh, thank you.
Yeah. So if you go over to my website, hvacproblog
.com, there's a handful of items up on the top.
You can find there's a coaching tab, services.
I do actually offer support with system design
as well. So if you have a set of plans on a complex
house and you want to subcontract that out, I
have the ability of helping you with that as
well. But HVACProBlog .com or if you just want
to jump right to some video learning, I have
over 200 trainings on YouTube that you can check
out for free. Nice. All right, Chris, I sure
appreciate you hanging out with us. We look forward
to more trainings and opportunities in the future.
Just glad to have you here today. Thanks, Colton.
Same here. I appreciate the opportunity with
you and good luck to everybody this summer.