That change now, you look at changing A2L,
and I got to smile just a little bit because
like, wow, this feels a lot like back then when
everyone was worried about 410A. Right. And then
you get curious, you go through that change curve,
and then you get comfortable. Yeah. ESCO Learning
is now on the go with the HVACR Learning Network
app. Access your courses, learn on the go, chat
with community, get updates. and more. Keep your
HVACR learning journey moving. Visit hvacr .elearn
.network or scan the QR codes below. All right,
everyone. Thank you so much for joining us once
again on Did You Know? The ESCO Age Fact Podcast.
So we are spending some time at the National
HVACR Education Conference working with our industry
partners to improve education and training for
our entire industry. And I am just blown away
with how Daikin is supporting this effort, supporting
the conference, supporting training and all.
Sorts of new initiatives from Daikin. So today
we're going to introduce you to David Hutchison,
the new VP of Technical Services, North America
for Daikin. And David, thank you for joining
me today. Thank you for having me. You know,
we spent some time getting to know each other
a little bit in the expo the other day, and you've
got a very extensive background in the industries,
but also as that technician as well. Right. So
tell us a little bit about like. your history
and how you got into the industry and then we're
that way we can start diving into like what is
going to be the mission for like technical services
going forward sure uh so in 1988 i'm a curious
kid in a lawnmower shop and a part -time job
at sears there you go and a manager came up one
day and said if you like it you want to be a
technician yeah and so yeah so i worked myself
through college uh being a technician for sears
back when sears had 10 000 technicians yeah had
their own entire army yeah sears university was
huge i was immediately in atlanta for two weeks
yeah learning small engines but then cycled through
through many other products and so when you were
a sears technician in the early 90s your route
was not all HVAC. It could be lawnmowers, laundry,
refrigerators. And so you had to learn many of
the different products inside the home, in the
attic, outside, in the back 40, fixing a tractor.
That's true too. Yeah. So there are some fundamental
service practices that are across the industry
and across the product. And that was probably
the greatest learning as I worked myself through.
through the University of South Florida, where
once I graduated there, Sears gave me a unique
set of opportunities over 27 years. the end of
the story was vice president southeast region
but in between there was the normal progression
tech manager general manager rgm did some roles
in the home office from service quality one of
the first six people in the company selected
it through the six signal black belt program
trained as a master black belt and then one of
the hvac related opportunities is i ran the national
service organization for hvac where we integrated
the technical technical workforce and with the
sales workforce which is what the industry does
anyway yeah so the sears caught up uh decades
later sure and that's where we learned that that
service as a lead source is is the number one
way to drive a sales organization in the residential
arena. And then that's when I finished as the
regional vice president. But unfortunately, Sears
declined, was in the news over and over. Home
Depot had been calling for some time. And so
I went over to Home Depot, and what an experience
that was. I ran the entire exteriors and home
sales division. So if it was roofing, attic insulation.
front doors, windows, siding. I had a 2 ,100
% commission salespeople in the home. And that's
where I learned the sales side of home improvements.
And after a couple of years, I was having some
conversations with Kahn's Home Plus. If you don't
know Kahn's, they were a Southeast -based retailer
that was 137 years old, based out of Beaumont,
Texas, and then went over to Houston and to the
Woodlands. I was their vice president of... of
repairs and then also started a home improvement
division with them unfortunately they went bankrupt
yeah last july and i got a lead yeah through
uh some folks that are currently with it yeah
industry partners and then uh fast forward here
i am very cool so all the way from Technician
in school all the way through VPs of multiple
different aspects of industry, right? All the
components that make up, you know, the mechanics
of structures. And I'm very, what is the word
that I look for? I'm very passionate about understanding.
the mechanical engines as well as like anything
else, right? Anything mechanical. But I don't
know. It just seems like when we are drawn to
things like engines and you learn that process
of internal combustion, when you move into air
conditioning and refrigeration, that process
of internal compression stays really that whole
process, right? Because in internal combustion,
we are transferring gases. right we're using
liquid and vapor and and we're we're doing a
mechanical process and we're changing it elementally
wise but in refrigeration we're not changing
the element but that whole process of compression
we still work with and so i'm the same way right
so i spent 16 years part -time working at autozone
while i was a refrigeration technician because
one i absolutely loved engines and automobiles
and b i got a 20 discount on parts for all the
junk vehicles that i owned so i think they go
hand in hand like many of us in the trades are
when you when we say that we are a technician
that really kind of just means like we're a mechanic
and we have a curiosity and an interest in just
mechanics in general and so sometimes uh particularly
like with students they may not recognize that
if I already have an interest in mechanics, like
the industry might be right for me. Right. So
do you see, what do you see as like challenges
within our industry that we need to address and
face over this next few years? I would say there.
Definitely in labor. And I would go back to the
comment on the gasoline engine. It's still a
transfer of energy from a liquid state that's
atomized. You extract the energy and you expel
it through exhaust. So you look at the gas cycle
of HVAC. It's just contained in a sealed system.
So labor is the key. AI has the new frontier
that we'll all be a part of. the hem of in -home
experience but in the end it's still going to
be a person it's still going to be wrenches and
probably an ipad yeah we know an ipad there's
going to be some kind of technology there yeah
and and it's it's both diagnosing customers and
solving solving them and walking through that
that methodical approach of fixing the customer
first the brand second and the product third
yeah uh teaching those skills as well as the
building the labor in the workforce to make sure
that there's enough to meet the demand. AGVAC
is unique in many ways, and it's the current
labor shortages, but the manufacturers like Daikin,
we cannot train enough ourselves in the workforce
to meet the demand. I don't think any of us can.
But then together, maybe you look at you look
at who's here and you look at over a thousand
people, you look at those schools that are represented.
Yeah, this is the only path to be able to create
and fill that labor shortage. And to see the
the interest and the curiosity in the room and
the educators here is is. renews my optimism
for the industry as this is the path but the
technology challenges that are that are entering
into the industry around uh internet of things
uh connected homes uh inverter process new a2l
refrigerants is we as an industry need to look
at it as the funnel you've got Me in 1988 learning
how to fix gasoline engines, that's happening
every day in the schools. We need to make sure
that they're exposed to the new technologies,
the new products. So when they run their first
route and they're on their own, they're not looking
at something, I've never seen this before. I
think that's really been the theme. We tried
to intentionally make that part of the theme
of this year's conference. really sure how well
it was going to be received. We knew we're going
to have a pretty good turnout. And that's what
we were hoping for a thousand. That was like
our goal. We actually ended up having over 1200.
And so it's been a very busy conference and we
weren't sure because we've been preaching that
the programs have to be teaching this new technology.
We know that you're probably not comfortable
with it. You may not have even been exposed to
it yet, but that's what we want to do. We want
to bring you here, bring you. to meet personally
the manufacturers, the training, the tech services,
the software companies that are developing along
those lines that's making our job easier and
so that we can implement this training into the
classroom. Because like you'd mentioned, like
one of the important parts of being a technician
is trying to understand and evaluate that customer,
right? It's one thing to be able to diagnose
something, but it's another to be able to communicate
that diagnosis to the customer. I was talking
to one software company that is specializing
in a service that is using AI to analyze all
of their customer service calls so that when
they get a customer service call at the contractor
level, this service is now analyzing that call
to get a predetermined potential scenario for
what the problem is right it's not a solution
it's just okay so this is probably related to
the indoor airflow or something you know what
something of that nature so then it's using all
of the tech support replies so the the iPad that
that technician had been using for what the diagnosis
of these problems were, all that data has been
imported into that as potential things to look
at for that technician in case that's a new technician
and they're not 100 % sure where to start. They
are actually getting this artificial intelligence
that's saying, according to previous calls of
a similar issue, the technician found this type
of a problem and they started here and this was
the solution. And it's analyzing the vocal response
of the customer to build a profile of the customer
before you get to the job. And I went, whoa,
we're using artificial intelligence to help a
technician be prepared for a job. I think that's
critical because we can teach them to fix the
products and the diagnostic path. basics down
to this scientific method of how we diagnose
and repair what's wrong. Right. But when it comes
to building customer loyalty, it really gets
down to that tech in the home. Yeah. In the service
chain, there's only one face -to -face interaction.
That's right. It's not the call center. It's
not the text messages confirming. It's the tech
in the home. That shows up. And that first 15
seconds is critical. The call ahead. right where
you park uh how you build the relationship with
a customer is is the the table stakes of of the
in -home consumer services industry yeah and
the more we can prepare our technicians for that
yeah there's a stat that really puts things in
perspective for the average customer they'll
see a service professional in their home once
every three years but for that technician it
stops six of eight yeah and that perception if
not understood uh is is where the the uh the
customers uh uh don't have the relationship and
won't show that loyalty yeah in fact um there
are five principles that i've always operated
with uh with the in -home experiences there's
the operational operational items like give me
the dates i want don't reschedule me there you
go show up when you promise fix it right the
first time but then there's also put a tech in
my home that respects me as a customer yeah and
protects my home and product with care number
five is the most important operational disasters
happen but when that tech builds a relationship
with a customer and recovers that they'll score
them a 10 and they'll be more loyal than the
customer that had the perfect same day, fixed
right, never came back, but they didn't score
the experience a 10. And then you go back and
you call them and you find out there was something
that happened with that only face -to -face interaction
in the home. Man, that's really starting to make
more sense now from why they were so adamant
of how that style of AI technology could assist
that technician. You know, because what if Mrs.
Jones made one positive comment that got reported
on that ticket and the next technician that comes,
that first introduction, oh, hi, Mrs. Jones,
I'm such and such. That was very impressionable
of you and you appreciated that. And I remember
Johnny was a great guy and it just completely
changes the interaction from point number one
so that in case there's potential catastrophes
down the road, you know, you've got a major expense,
major replacement. It's already softened that
conversation and created that relationship between
technician and customer. It really is about that
relationship. As human beings, we feed off of
the feedback that we give each other, both verbal
and nonverbal. And when you are able to recover
that customer, because they're in a panic loop.
Oh, absolutely. And if you can reassure them
and they know and you build that trust with them.
then that's worth a lifetime of repeat business.
So as a technician then, it's always important
to learn the fundamentals, to learn the equipment
-specific training, especially from our manufacturers.
What do you see as some of the most valuable
training and tools that a technician should acquire?
I think it's going to have to be with the technology
of understanding how we're going to go in the
home and diagnose in the future. Almost soft
skills? There are the soft skills with the customer.
And I mentioned the iPad. The modern toolbox
will have a cushion pad for an iPad. And so being
able to have that repair loop, customer first,
brand second, and product third, when we hit
specific with the product, we're going to have
to understand that the technology is going to
help us, but we have to be curious and seek out.
That education and learn. And that technology.
How we're going to use that technology for the
product servicing. Yeah, I completely agree with
that. When I was a technician, so I spent most
of my time commercial refrigeration building
automations. I was in residential when I got
into the industry, but I spent the majority of
mine commercial building automations refrigeration.
And when I was in the field, an iPad. was part
of my tool bag, just exactly like you said. So
my Klein backpack, I just give away two weeks
ago to a young man in high school because I got
a new one. And that Klein backpack was the one
that I used when I was in the field as a technician.
So it held all of my tools, but the very back
compartment was the laptop compartment, lockable
laptop compartment. And so on the commercial
side, that was expected of us to incorporate
that iPad. As part of my diagnostics, because
most of our testing was done invasively, temperature,
you know, refrigerant gauge. I didn't carry refrigerant
gauges. I had a set of testo smart probes in
my bag as a last resort. And so when we start
looking at what happened in residential technology,
that's actually the main reason I moved from
where I was to where I am. It's because I was
excited about what was happening in residential
because I was already comfortable with it in
the commercial side. It's like, you know, I knew
that if we're going to teach this stuff, you
know, I can assist in teaching this because I'm
already comfortable with it. And I know that
there's a lot of educators in residential that
haven't been introduced to that yet. And so that
is actually going to be more of a requirement,
I think, just like you said, of a technician
going forward. Well, you mentioned comfortable.
That's the output or the result of change and
going through that change. You were comfortable,
but then the residential guy was not. And I think
that's another. key aspect of of why we're here
and the the schools and and the learnings that
are out there is is getting them comfortable
comfortable with those new technologies we were
briefly talking earlier about the a2l transition
yeah exactly and i was a technician transitioning
from 22 to 410a that's right and there was a
a lot of that was a learning curve yeah not you
know huge pressure uh changes when you consider
different w's yeah yeah it was that change uh
Now you look at changing to A2L and I got a smile
just a little bit because like, wow, this feels
a lot like back then when everyone was worried
about 410A. Right. And, you know, then you get
curious, you go through that change curve and
then you get comfortable. Yeah. And then you
go, oh. That's not that bad. Right. Okay. Worst
case scenario, I ended up with two sets of manifold
gauges. One for 22 with mineral and one for 410
with poly. And then when we make this transition,
I actually feel, even though we've got things
like refrigerant detection sensors on systems
above four pounds and potentially on smaller
ones if they're in certain applications. I mean,
yeah, that is one aspect that we have to look
at. That's just calculations, right? That's just
a new component. But when I look at like refrigerant.
You know, whether we're going to 32 or 454B,
we're only going up or down a few PSI in comparison
to 410. It's operating on the same refrigerant
oil. I took my, they're now probably eight years
old, nine years old Testo smart probes, right?
I did a firmware update and boom, there's all
my refrigerants. And so when I look at it, I
go, wow, this is really not a hard transition.
I would encourage everyone. to go do their first
one and then go do their second one. And then
they're going to find themselves just as comfortable.
To your point, this is not a learning curve that's
steep with this transition. So like anything
else, we're tactile learners. We go and do one,
then do the second one, and you'll be extremely
comfortable with it. But it also gets down to
the schools as well. We need that technology
in every learning lab. We need not only the A2L
stuff, but we need the technology, the inverter
technology. We need to understand the communicating
units and networks of the thermostats, air handler,
and the condenser. Those are the technologies
that we have to prepare our students for. And
then when they run their first route, they're...
They've seen it before and they know it. And
when you look at the powerful nature of all the
schools and all the educators that are here,
you also flip the coin and you see the opportunity
of all the equipment that's in those labs. How
many are single stage 410? We've got to, as manufacturers
and what Daikin is committed to, is being a part
of those labs of the future. But there's a lot
out there. There's a lot of schools, a lot of
labs and classes that are going on right now.
And that's our approach and our dedication to
this group and this industry is we're going to
have our equipment and we're going to help. Wow.
And that's so important. You know, here at ESCO,
particularly on the HVAC excellence side, who
works with the accreditation and works with their
schools and making sure that they're properly
equipped. That has been the most interesting
conversation that we've had in this last 12 months
in particularly is the educators that are just
now starting to look at systems going, okay,
I get to update my classroom equipment periodically.
I've got some funds. Here just recently, Howard
Weiss had the phone call of, hey, I've got a
$200 ,000 grant to update my labs. And here's
the list of equipment that I was looking at.
And I just thought. I would like a professional
review of what I was thinking about putting into
my lab. And he went through the whole list and
he went, every single piece on here is R410A.
Don't you realize that if you go buy the equipment
that you're looking at, if you can even still
find it in your local warehouse, your local distributor
warehouse, it's on its last leg. The manufacturing
of it is already over. The only things that are
left is what's in the warehouse. And so this
next 12 months, these things are going to be
obsolete. Don't you want to prepare your students
for what they're going to see? Because by the
time they leave your program, there's going to
be an entire new generation. Every piece of equipment
a year from now that they're going to go out
and install, when they leave here, it's not going
to be the equipment that you were getting ready
to plan to teach them on. And they went, that
changes things. And on the accreditation side
as well. The curriculum needs to be quickly adapted.
What are we teaching? And that's where we can
be strong partners with them is working with
the accreditations to make sure that the curriculum
matches the equipment in the lab. And to your
point, we don't need to... uh create a fleet
of 410a experts yeah we need to uh have them
come out with uh the curious nature that is required
of a technician yep and understanding the the
new technologies that are entering uh you know
there's i've seen the universe across multiple
appliances and right you can put into a concept
or perspective the tv the tv technician used
to be you know kind of top of the hierarchy you
bet they did they had to know solid state they
had to know so many aspects of how uh a cathode
ray tube worked yeah and how to test one right
now we we finished with cons using appliance
technicians and in an eight hour day training
course and they were fixing tvs so technology
and how it enters it goes at an exponential rate
yeah and and this is where HVAC is at. When you
look at inverters, you look at communicating,
it's going to change. And that rate of change
with technology is not going to stop with HUL
or fraternities and inverter technology, communicating
stuff. It's going to take the next step and the
next step. So we need to prepare our students
for... adapting to that change. Yeah. And that's
really what Daikin has been focusing on in every
aspect. We're so grateful to have Daikin here.
Well, David, I'm thankful to have met you. I
look forward to how you're going to impact this
industry. And I know that we're going to be spending
time having more of these conversations, talking
about training and support. And are there ways
that anyone can reach out to Daikin to learn
more about how Daikin is working with the industry?
Well, there is Daikin University and HVAC Learning
Campus. Those are your places that you want to
go. A vast library of curriculum is available
for those in the industry that can learn from
basics and anything specific to Daikin. So, be
curious, go look and see what's out there. You
will be surprised. It's a An amazing learning
tool that's available for folks. Free learning
tools. Yes. Yes. All right. Well, thank you for
joining us. And I encourage everyone to go check
out Daikin University. Check out the entire Daikin
arsenal of training. And we will see you all
again on the next episode. Thank you, Clifton.
Thank you, sir.