It's cited by a doctor, so I'm not smart enough
to figure something like that out. It's got more
brains than we've got. And it was on the internet,
so it's got to be true. Yeah, that internet thing.
It's such a fun place. ESCO Learning is now on
the go with the HVACR Learning Network app. Access
your courses, learn on the go, chat with the
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.network or scan the QR codes below. we've had
some great time getting to know each other in
a short time you know it's just some of the topics
that we come across it's just like we have we
have fun in our industry well yes and you have
to yeah yeah if if uh what was it a study here
recently that i came across that says if it takes
it takes 4 000 repetitions of something to develop
a new neural pathway wow but If it's fun or you
enjoy it, it's only 20. Wow. And I forget the
difference. Yes. I forget the doctor that did
it, but it's cited by a doctor. So I'm not smart
enough to figure something like that out. It's
got more, more brains than we've got. And it
was on the internet. So it's got to be true.
Yeah. that internet thing. It's such a fun place.
All right. So you're bringing up a very interesting
topic. I actually had a couple contractors bring
up to me earlier, right? So we've got a lot of
contractors here that we don't normally get.
These last couple of years, we've had a significant
growth in contractors that are looking at their
own training programs. And then they come to
ESCO, they're like, okay, we're going to do our
own training program, or we're at least going
to do supplemental training for our apprenticeship
programs. But What content do we give them and
when? Right. Because if we get things out of
sequence, it might not even pertain to what we're
trying to teach them. Like if I try to teach
somebody a heat pump on semester one and semester
two, I give them basic refrigeration. They're
going to go, what? Yeah. Well, I don't know.
Maybe the basic refrigeration might have an application
to it. But. If you're trying to, yeah, no, that
doesn't function correctly. And that was kind
of the genesis of a thought I've had all conference
long is that, you know, you come to a conference
like this and there are so many tracks and there
are so many great vendors and sponsors and such
fantastic information available. It's like trying
to drink from a fire hose as a hummingbird. It's
just, Literally, it's mind -blowing, the amount
of information that is coming at you. And I've
been really trying to figure out how does one
prioritize the amount of knowledge that's coming
in? I mean, yesterday morning, one of the big
things that came out was in my... news feed that
I read every day. It talked about an update to
the AIM Act and the AIM Act is going away. It's
there and there have been a lot of sessions that
go on and listeners, just so you know, no, not
for the majority of industries, at least that
I work with. Yes, there's a couple of pieces
that are under review, but it doesn't affect
anything in multifamily. And my guess is most
Residential and commercial air conditioning professionals.
The only thing under review is small pieces.
Supermarket. Yeah. That's it. That's all. Yeah.
But it's things like that that unless you're
paying attention to everything, it's hard to
keep track on what is relevant to you. Yeah,
exactly. But if you pay too much attention to
everything, then you lose. You lose what's happening
right now. I agree completely. So what do you
think? Where do we begin? What is a good beginning
place for an education program? I won't even
say for a beginning student of air conditioning.
Yeah. But for an education program, where do
you start at point one? I mean, do you go all
the way back to this is a screwdriver and this
is a pair of channel locks? Yes. So the reason
that I say that and the reason I believe that
is we're getting a lot of comments from schools
of students that cannot read a tape measure.
Oh, yeah. They've never been taught how to open
a tape measure. And I kept hearing that and I
kept hearing that and I thought, man, really?
Is it that bad? Okay, so get this. I'm going
to admit to something that I am. I'm ashamed
of. This is a safe space. It's just you and me.
It is. That's true. Okay. So my son buys his
first house last year. And we're over there this
winter and he's finishing the garage. Right.
And so I'm into woodworking and I've tried to
teach him woodworking over the years. He's picked
up some of it. Most of it he didn't because dad
was teaching him. Right. If it was, you know,
Uncle Bob, you know, he'd probably been a master
woodworker by now, but dad's teaching him. So
he's going to learn a few of the basics. That's
right. And same way with HVAC. Right. You know,
and so there's certain things I tried teaching
him and picked up on. quite a few things. So
we're doing woodworking, right? So I'm like,
okay, son, so what are you going to do? We're
going to put some metal on and then I want to
cut some wood to use for the trim on things.
I'm like, oh yeah, that's great. And he picked
up a whole bunch of cedar, really good looking
lumber that we're going to put for trim on the
very top between the metal walls and the ceiling.
And so we're getting all the cedar out and We're
in this place in the corner and around the window
and we're measuring. I'm like, all right, go
get me a measurement on that. And he says, it's
a little over 27. And I'm like, how much over?
He's like, one, two, three, four, five, six,
seven bars over. And I'm like, is that in eighths
or is that in sixteenths? Is that in 32nds? Is
that in 64ths? And he's like, I don't know. I'm
like, what? I'm like, let me see that. And it's
in eighths. And I'm going, did I fail you? Did
I never teach you how to read a tape measure?
And he's like, you probably did. I don't honestly
remember if you taught me how to use a tape measure.
And I'm like, and you've never used a ruler or
tape measure in school this entire time all the
way through your associate's degree? No. I went
to work for one of my first educational programs.
I taught myself how to use authoring software
to create some e -learning programs for a supplier.
And I am not gifted in that area, but it needed
to be done. And I was the only one. So I did.
And the supplier came to me. They did cabinets
and kitchens. And they came to me after I produced
the first one, which was on swimming pools. And
they said, Paul, we need you to create an e -learning
course for our salespeople. I said, OK. Sounds
interesting. Is it reading, you know, designs
or sales or whatever? And I said, no, a simple
one. Really, really easy. We need them to learn
how to read a ruler. OK, hold on. What? Did I
miss something? Yeah, the same look. And they
said, yeah, we're having too many cabinet doors,
fronts, faces, and drawers being returned because
they meant three -eighths instead of three -quarters.
And they need to know the difference between
the two of them because the drawers aren't fitting
in the holes that are cut in fabrication. Shouldn't
laugh. And literally I turned back to him and
I said, wait a second. You're talking about salespeople
who are in charge of millions of dollars in sales
for your company. And you hired them without
verifying that they can read fractions? Yeah.
And then the next thing is, wait, you're coming
to a guy who is, I plunge toilets for a living.
This is like a side gig. Yeah. And you want me
to teach them? Yeah. How much commission do I
get for every correct measurement that I do?
Let's put some factors in this thing. Measure
this. But it is. And I agree with you that when
we start an educational program of any type,
we have to start at ground zero. Yeah. I don't
know. what ground zero is or identifying it,
because at some point it becomes too elementary.
Yeah, you can't stay there too long either. Yeah,
so, you know, the running joke of what's the
difference between a Phillips and a flathead
screwdriver? One's a plus, one's a minus, and
you move on. And those foundational skills, I
believe, and I completely agree with you, it
has to start from a point of almost... when you're
later on in your career, almost absurdity. Yeah.
For what do you mean you don't understand? Exactly.
And the next piece is we have to be very, very
careful to do a learner's assessment. Yeah. Because
we can't assume almost anything. Yep. I was trying
to teach a couple of years ago, and this same
incidence has been repeated three times. I had
a student come up to me. We were teaching fan
motors and how to determine which direction the
blade is going to turn to where you got the yellow
and the purple wire coming out old capacitor
motor and you flip it around. And the way that
you look is with the rod in your nose and it's
counterclockwise or clockwise. And after we finished
that section, a guy came up to me and he says,
Paul, you talked about. Clockwise and counterclockwise.
What do you mean by that? Yeah. And I said, and
I held up my watch, analog watch, and I said,
this is the direction the hand goes over. He
held up his digital watch. He didn't know what
a moving mechanical hand was. No, no idea. Right.
So I think we definitely need to start with foundational.
Yeah. And we can't make an assumption as where
that starting place is. So as educators, we have
to be soft and use humor and make it a safe place
in the classroom so questions like that can be
asked. I think the challenge is also complicated
by just the environment we are in. And your audience.
Yeah. Because you don't know what it is. And
the technological changes are coming so fast
now. Yep. I attended a session this morning on
inverter technology. And I know the word. Yeah.
And I think I could fumble my way through a definition
until attending this session. Right. And the
more and more I thought about it, the buildings
that I'm working on, the technicians that I'm
training right now today. Are not working on
anything inverter. Yeah. So from a prioritization
standpoint, that's a topic that it. Now, I'm
going to say it's not even on my radar. It's
outside the realm of my radar. But I'm aware
that it could jump onto my radar. Should my management
company come up with a next next. Yeah. With
a product. Yes. That's on there. So I think.
I kind of think the answer is something along
that line. You started almost absurdly foundational,
absurdly simple and continually build skills.
The challenge is, is that continually build piece
of how long does it take to get from simple to
complex and how many steps is it going to take?
And from an educational standpoint. What's my
responsibility as the educator to provide and
what is the student's responsibility to pull?
Yeah. Absolutely. And that I think is the answer
I've come to. Is that anywhere reasonable? No,
you're right. So I approach it in two different
perspectives. And so the two things that have
worked very, very successful for me, it depends
on. Am I teaching someone from ground zero or
I'm teaching someone who has existing education
in this particular sector? So what I did is particularly
if I was working with a company, like let's just
say I was doing an interview for a company that
was I was doing dealer onboarding. Right. And
so I'm introducing a new brand of equipment to
a company's installation and service department.
The very first thing that I do, they're anticipating
I'm coming there to teach them about this very
specific product and technology. And in fact,
the very first thing that I do is I administer
a 100 -question baseline assessment that has
questions going from the most simplest of things
like tape measure measurements all the way up
to questions that I can't answer, that I've sourced
from engineering. And so I do a 100 -question
assessment. And I start administering that. And
out of that, what you find is not what the people
know. It's the things that they need assistance
on. And then as long as the majority of the things
are falling into one sector, then I can. assume
that that should be the next thing that i'm teaching
in my class so this is you're an outside instructor
going into a contractor and testing these contractor
employees yes and okay my question this is where
it gets challenging because you're going into
somebody else's business yeah with their employees
oh yeah how do you get around the business problem
the true business problem of You're handing out
an evaluation. It's not a pass fail test. And
as a matter of fact, the more accurate and the
less intimidating for the student it is, the
better, more accurate the results are that lead
to a better program. The challenge, though, is
how do you handle the employer who is going to
come back and want to use that? As a performance
tool, a performance evaluation tool. Yep. How
do you handle that? Boy, I upset a handful of
experienced technicians along the way because
I actually encourage it. Oh, using the assessment.
Using the assessment as a performance management
tool. As a performance and evaluation. Wow. And
so I take a pretty hard stance on it, on that
perspective, because in that assessment, I do
learn what needs to be taught. And I also learn
who doesn't know what they were already supposed
to know because they told the employer they did.
And it's a difficult place to be. There's a lot
of people that don't like me at that minute.
But then I turn around and go, OK. What we're
actually doing here is we're looking at, because
you'll get the ones that there's no way this
is impossible to pass. And it's exactly like
you say it. You come back and go, there's actually
no passing on this. It's not a you failed or
you passed. This is what training do we need
the most to get to the next level? And the most
common deficiency in our entire group is this
electrical schematic reading. And so now everyone
is getting electrical schematic training. But
there were some technicians that really struggled
on the entire thing. And that's because I know
that they just started. So they're going to go
over and they're going to do an EPA 608 or they're
going to do a very, very fundamental class. And
so then I look at catering the training to the
deficiency of what we have. And it takes. It
takes a couple of times of doing that. But the
beauty of doing that repetitive is this. After
they whine for a little while, you can go, okay,
now we're going to compare yours to the average
for everyone that's taken these tests. And they're
going to look at it and they're going to go,
oh. everybody filled electrical wiring didn't
they and like yes they did and that's why we're
going to start right here this is a vault this
is going to start with that yes yeah that makes
sense though that is that is in today's environment
which is set up so rapidly yeah for our for employees
which is fascinating to me on one hand Our employers
and the business culture we're in are expecting
rapid change, rapid improvement. You know, here's
this e -learning class. Before you knew nothing
about electrical. Now you're a master. Go do
it. Two hours of training. Go. Be on your way
and God bless. Exactly. And yet the flip side
is a program like that, which is a really neat,
simple idea. I've heard it applied to other industries.
The challenge, I guess, is we're not dealing
with urgency, complicated issues. And by that,
I mean when a pipe breaks, the solution is fairly
simple. Find the valve and turn it off. And then
there's always the option of hiring a contractor
to get it done. So the urgency is reduced because
we can solve it by paying for the solution outside.
What that tells me is on the backside for our
employees, we can train them over time. Yeah,
on that specific application. Yes, by exposure,
by controlled challenges. Some by even allowing
learning opportunities for mistakes. Yep. So
it's also interesting that for students, I've
got to imagine that it becomes an incentive.
of last time we took this test i missed the electrical
section yeah here we are three months later and
now i'm three quarters the way i knew the answer
to three quarters of those questions yeah so
you have proof of progress yep so that is that
is really neat yeah and you want to fire up a
young technician oh man yes you show them what
they can do. You show them the things that they
need to learn to be successful. Now you've given
them a path. Yes. Especially if you can incorporate
with that some really cool tools, gadgets, and
gizmos. You're your little thing along the way.
That's exactly right. So that is how I typically
approach an established environment, an established
learning environment where it's a contractor,
whether it is a department, a maintenance department.
So an established working department. If I'm
looking at a program from ground zero or like
an apprenticeship program, then I follow things
that are very accepted within the industry, a
very rudimentary introductory into the refrigeration
cycle, into electrical, into refrigerants. But
along the way, at every step, on every type of
training, We're following that with an industry
accepted certification. Okay. So it becomes a
tiered training. And proven concrete levels.
Yeah. So that you know you have to prove to our
point earlier of. finite progress. It's not just
a, well, I feel like you're doing better. I feel
like you know more. No, I can prove you know
more. Let me show you the numbers. The question
for you though, and I know you may be a little
bit biased. At what point in that educational
program do you introduce refrigerant into the
progress? And I ask this question because in
the apartment industry, you know, that Section
608 certification is held up as the, you are
the everything. Yep. Because you have that certification
when we know it doesn't teach how to do anything.
So the apprenticeship program that I put together,
I use that as bait. Okay. Oh, the 608 as bait.
The 608 is your bait. Okay. So the 608 gets introduced
as the very first course. Really? Very, very
first course, but not the complete 608 program.
I don't go through universal. I go through type
one and type two. Okay. All right. But they're
not testing. So you introduced the content first.
The concept. The concept of refrigeration and
carrying heat and movement. Answering questions
along the way. So the first two weeks, that's
what you get to see. You get to see that our
industry is based around refrigerants and regulations.
And then later we're going to explore what they
do and how they do it. Because in that first
couple of weeks, either they're in or they're
out. And I like that because it also defines
the why. Yes. From a technical level, why do
we have all the fan motors and relays and sensors
and switches and buttons? And why do I need to
study electrical so much? And this flashy. of
refrigerant and being able to do that and meet
that level is actually a minor part in the repair
scheme of things. But I like that. It's thinking
about it a little bit backwards. The programs
that I've done, we introduce it, it's out there,
but it's in the future. Because maintenance technicians
have got to get... all of the other stuff right
before I want them going to grab a jug. Absolutely.
So the thinking is that the training progression
reinforces that. That's exactly right. So you
tell them right up front, this is what you're
going to learn. This is a learning outcome of
this course. And at the end of this, you are
going to need to be comfortable with this information
that we're going to work on these first two weeks.
Because at the end of this course, we're going
to dive really deep into it. And you're going
to be required to pass a universal in this course.
The goal is your universal. It'll be fine if
you just get your type two. Right. But what we're
going to do is we're going to focus on getting
you the highest achievement we can out of this
program. It's okay if you don't get it, but that's
what we're going to do. And so now we're going
to start here at these fundamentals, and I want
you to be thinking about these as we go through
all of our refrigeration training. So I start
out with a very, very, very basic of 608. They
get their study manual, and they keep that through
the entire course. So they can read it the one
time that is needed to memorize all the information
that's in there, right? That's exactly right.
If you're listening, no, that's a joke. That
doesn't work. It's just a study guide. It's just
a piece. It's like the highlights. It definitely
is. So I start there, and then I actually move
into a what is air. Very fundamental. what is
the things around us and then i'll start moving
into the chemical then i'll start moving into
the refrigeration and actually refrigerants comes
after refrigeration so i would teach the refrigeration
cycle first that makes sense and then go into
what are refrigerants so that i can help them
understand that these refrigerants it could be
any of them because all of them do the thing
that happened before. So literally think of putting
your training together as your sequence of operation.
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. That way you
keep the most complicated piece of which number
refrigerant is this and why does it have a four
in front of it as opposed to just two numbers.
All of that complication gets stayed out till
later because you are building that why. Telling
why do we need to know this next thing? It's
because of this. Now, we're not going to worry
about this. We need to learn the next thing.
Oh, and by the way, now that we're learning this
next thing, this next thing is the why. We need
to learn the next thing. So it's almost like
you introduce it and then build up. Exactly.
And then by getting all the way to the end of
it, you've solved that first piece, that first
why. Yeah. It's kind of like. Throwing a joke
out or a riddle out and going, at the end, you're
going to solve it. Right. To where you will have
the answer. You will have this answer. And then
never talk about it again. That's some fun training.
So I approach them differently. Definitely. And
that makes a lot of sense. The challenge is getting
the time now. that's that's the challenge part
yeah because it all costs yeah it all costs and
the longer the longer the period of time is between
knowledge and application the faster the atrophy
of the knowledge that is gained yeah Man, this
is a good one. Yeah, I think so, too. Paul Rhodes,
how can we learn more about everything you're
doing in the industry? The best way to learn
more about what's going on is two locations.
One is LinkedIn. I'm active on LinkedIn, and
that is the best place to find out about me and
what's going on. The second place is actually
my podcast, The Maintenance Mindset. It's a podcast
on the Multifamily Media Network. And all the
episodes are found there and on YouTube. And
I speak at a lot of conferences around for the
apartment association. And I'm just happy to
continue to learn myself. this conference. And
if for those of you who are listening, if you
are interested in coming to one place to learn
something that you never, ever thought you needed
to know, this is a great place to come. Thank
you, sir. All right. I appreciate it. Everybody
needs to go check out everything Paul's doing
and spend some time on the Maintenance Mindset
Podcast. Everybody have a great day. We'll see
you.