Sometimes. Sometimes. I've been standing out
my whole life, but you get a little nervous around
work colleagues. You do, don't you? Yeah. You
want to set a, um, you just, you want to, you
want to be fun and you don't want to forget that
it's fun. Yeah. Learning is supposed to be fun.
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Thank you for joining us once again on Did You
Know? The Esco HVAC Podcast. So today, dude,
we are having so much fun. Mac, that HVAC Mac,
if you don't already know from social media,
man, we've been kind of like chatting back and
forth, you know, just, I've just been watching
what you're doing. You're watching what I'm doing.
I'm like, dude, we got to get together sometime.
And then, you know, at the conference every year,
like we've had the Brian D Baker scholarship
for quite a few years. Right. And like his goal,
like. His goal was to leave a legacy to be able
to support educators in the industry. Right.
And to give them as much opportunity to get the
resources they need, especially coming to the
conference. And you're a recipient of that this
year. Yes, sir. And so we got to talk about this,
man, because I'm telling you, I think you and
I could like we can entertain this entire show.
It's listen, let me start off by saying it's
very exciting and it's very honorable for Fluke.
for Esco to send us out here. And do not forget
that it is Vegas after all. There's a lot of
strange things to see, including strange instructors.
Dressing up, come around the corner and see you
this morning. They're like, what? And I had a
small sliver of doubt on whether I was going
to wear this ridiculous hat. Isn't it crazy,
man, to stand out? Yeah, sometimes. Standing
out my whole life. You get a little nervous around
work colleagues. You do, don't you? Yeah, you
want to set a... You want to be fun and you don't
want to forget that it's fun. Learning is supposed
to be fun. It is supposed to be fun. We can still
be serious. We can still wear hats. We can still
talk, shoot the breeze and all that. But don't
forget to have fun. Yeah. And I think, unfortunately,
that happens so much in the industry. We get
stuck in this rut of, okay, this is what we're
supposed to look like. This is what we're supposed
to do, supposed to teach because we've done this
for 50 years and nothing's ever changed. And
all of a sudden, we all go. that don't work anymore
it doesn't and and from my perspective i'd argue
did it ever work for a guy like me you know i
went to four -year schools trying yeah until
i found my way in trade school and i just uh
i want to try it differently i want my students
to be engaged laugh have fun yeah dress up bring
bring your issues into the educational place
where it's safe to bring up these issues of all
kinds dude didn't that like you know it so when
we think about like what we do it took me a while
to understand exactly what we do like we're not
just like teachers we're we're mentors i agree
right we are educators of minds not just for
the technical stuff they need to know but like
how they're going to be successful how they're
going to communicate with people they may end
up in in our classes because they think it's
like shop class and they've had no other place
to go because they didn't fit in the regular
classes and then their counselor might go you
know what uh hvac you know those shop classes
those might be right for you and that might have
been like the most intelligent person the school
ever had but they didn't understand right because
Communication is not the same for everyone. I
communicate like my skills, like my love language
is acts of service. And I want to fix something
for you. Like when I go to my family's, I don't
care if it's vacation. If I can fix something
for you, man, I get something out of that. You
had said something in one of your most recent
podcasts. I want to say two of them ago that
really stuck with me. Do we teach HVAC? Absolutely.
Yes, we do. There's some stuff where we're kind
of teaching you how to progress into adulthood.
Nobody. Do you have a driver's license? Yeah.
When you have your driver's license, you probably
shouldn't get a reckless driving charge. Yeah.
Right. You should probably start showing up on
time. Yeah. Right. Things that we take for granted
being in this for so long. Absolutely. Right.
And we do a lot of that. Love it. But at its
core, fun. Yeah. Always fun. Man, you know, and
I think like once I started having fun doing
this work, because there's times this work ain't
fun, right? Agreed. You crawl in that crawl space
and you got a dead cat in the corner and you
got to go grab a stick or a shovel to move it
out of the way to get to that duck. ain't no
fun i mean big fellas uh trying to make sure
you stay on beans yeah big fellas yeah getting
up in an attic someplace dude i was in like two
years and i i i got i thought i was getting good
at going across rafters and they were all spaced
out about you know 24 inches and so we were running
all new duct and i'm just i'm running through
right running through running through because
they're all spaced the same running through running
through back and forth back and forth 10 times
probably until I got to the duck that was at
the one just past where I'd been running to that
ended up being 30 inches instead of 24. Right.
And do a ceiling. I go, right. You know, so those
kinds of things, those are out there, but then
the fun stuff, man, I think that's why I still
love doing this because like the fun stuff. I
agree. It makes it, it keeps you young at heart.
Yeah. Laughter really is the best medicine and
that is the most engaging medicine. All of our
students, if they are laughing, if they're standing
up, if they're moving around, if they're not
sitting at a computer doing study hall, those
are all wins for the day. Absolutely. And I think
it's important that we take that opportunity
to celebrate them. Anytime there's laughter in
the classroom, anytime there's a dress -up day,
we should probably lean into that stuff. Because
I look at this thing as I'm not a trained four
-year teacher of any kind. No. I'm a technician.
Yeah, absolutely. stumbled into teaching thing
by doing field tech training and so how did i
want my teachers to engage with me yeah fun yeah
make it real make a product that makes it worth
getting up and coming to school for dang especially
when the cost of education goes up yeah and so
You and I can't control that, but we can control
the product that we put out. It's our responsibility
to reach the price point. It is. Dang. When you
look at it from that perspective, that's 100
% what it is. Right. I can't control the price.
It goes up regardless whether I show up or not.
Yeah. I have to deliver to it, period. Yeah.
And if I'm delivering, my value is going up.
That's it. And it doesn't stop. And that's the
beauty of what we do. If we don't relay that
in our classrooms, that's a mistake. Because
we have so many students that come to us that
have potential. All of them. Every last one of
them. Yeah. And so if we can help show them their
potential and then also go, okay, I'm going to
help you with these tools. And you're going to
see that you are going to set your value. You're
going to set what you're worth in the future.
And the choices that you make are going to change
that. I just think, too, you gain a lot of cachet
from other students when you make them have fun.
Then they start listening to you. Then they start
believing in you. Then the key thing, after all
that, is they start believing in themselves.
Yeah. Because I noticed at our school, at our
trade school in Dallas, we have a lot of kids
who don't hear a lot of positive thoughts. I
know. So if they start out with the fun, they
start to listen to you, and then they start to
believe in themselves, and then you see the light
go off. That's gone. And if we can get that going
off real quick. Yeah. three, four, five, six
months. So we've got another six months to a
year where we can help fine tune them, put them
in the right direction. Yeah. And I feel like
dressing up does that. It does, man. It just,
it lets people get comfortable in their skin.
Right. Yeah. Right. And because sometimes like
we think about like someone who like acts out
in a classroom, there was a time where you got
punished for that. Yeah. You come to my class.
You get to run the chalkboard or whatever we're
doing, right? It's because we've never looked
at why, right? It's the why. Like, take equipment,
right? We learn how to work on equipment. You
know, that's one thing. If you understand how
that equipment operates, you can work on any
of them, right? So let's think about that like
in a classroom. Someone comes into our classroom.
If we only look at the problem and... not that
sequence of operation. Like, why is that problem,
right? What did that student encounter that threw
that sequence of operation out of whack? And
what can I do to help get that sequence of operation
back in? And if you can do that and you can help
guide someone back into their own sequence of
operation, it's gold. It is. It's gold. It's
fun. And it's challenging to have multiple students,
20, 30 plus, and they all have their own way
of looking at things. It's really, really, really,
really fun. And I encourage anybody who is still
a technician that wonders if they could dabble,
just jump. Stop wondering. Could I do it? I didn't.
Yeah, just jump. Just do it. Just come join us.
It took someone like you to encourage me to jump.
So I thought I'd be a technician my whole life.
Same. I thought I would turn wrenches the rest
of my life. Yeah. It was good money. I love fixing
stuff. I love that. Thank you. I'm grateful you're
here. I'm glad you're here. I love them paychecks.
Right. And I had I actually had someone I had
a recruiter reach out. And he's like, so I'd
spent like 16 years working part time at AutoZone
while I was in the field. Did you really? Yeah,
I had kids. I had my own junk vehicles I had
to fix, right? That 20 % discount was awfully
good. It was. Yeah, right? Funny story. Yeah.
I worked at AutoZone, too, for a little bit.
Yeah. At one point, I was a commercial parts
delivery guy. Yeah, absolutely. I did. I had
fun. It's funny how every job you have kind of
prepares you for what you're doing now. It builds.
Right? Dude, you know how I got into this? How?
I had a mobile DJ business when I was a teenager.
Did you really? Cliff's Music on the Move. No
kidding. From like 14 to like 21. And then I
was like, all right. And so I went to college
for one year, right? Yeah. For TV, radio, film.
Realized that I had to sit in the class. I couldn't
work on anything. I was like, that's how I got
into the trades. Similar. Political science.
I was going to save the world. Yeah, absolutely.
That was one of them. I think at one point music
also. I mean, I must have went to community college
like four different times. Yeah, absolutely.
And just never really got engaged into it. Now,
granted, I wasn't giving it every bit that I
had. But in trade school, you walk through the
door and it kind of something clicks. And then
you start building your life at your hands. We
had a presenter here. That was my trade school
teacher in Waco, Texas. Really? David Brennan.
Oh, absolutely. Great dude. Oh, me and him got
in so much trouble a couple years ago. I'll tell
you about that. Oh, yeah, that was fun. Yeah,
that was my teacher at Texas State Technical
College in Waco. Yeah. So it's really cool. I
was also a DJ for a little bit, too. No way.
Isn't that crazy, man? It is. Right? It's like
those skills, those things that you enjoyed along
the way, it's like this field allows that, right?
If you're going to become, you know, a nine to
fiver, right? You're going to become a insurance
salesperson. You know what you're doing the rest
of your life? What are you doing? You're selling
insurance. There you go. Right. When you get
in these trades, you don't know day to day. I
mean, it can be every job every day can be a
different opportunity, different experience.
I mean, something that you've never seen before.
I mean, dude. Look at us. Look what we're doing
today. Dressed up. Shaking babies and kissing
hands. Somebody paid us to do this. Can you believe
that? We're out here learning and having fun.
It's great. To piggyback off what you're talking
about, you don't know day to day. You really
don't know day to day. Even in the teaching side,
you don't know what problems come up. I think
that speaks to the technician part of this where
You don't know what you're going to face, what
battles. All you have to do is be prepared to
deal with change as it comes. And by extension
of that, the way I view things is that because
there's so much change, I am the product. When
I'm a technician, I'm selling myself to the consumers
in their home, to the maintenance men on commercial
sites, even in education. You are coming to max
class. right and so for it's important to put
a positive spin on everything to be outgoing
to be energetic to be a very kind caring energy
because we're in a school it's supposed to be
a safe place for people to come in there and
express things and learn and close doors and
have adult conversations yeah in adult education
so to me that's that's part of the product not
not selling you an educational pipe dream whatever
i'm just selling you me And wherever that takes
you in your career, cool. I'm just glad I have
a small little piece in that story. You're an
awesome, wise dude, man. That's what education
is. It's awesome. Like one of the wisest men
that I know, Tom Tebby, he actually worked with
us, is now semi -retired. So he's helped coaching
me as I was starting to do this kind of thing.
Because this was a little uncomfortable for me.
It got me out of my skin doing these kind of
podcasts, being out in front of people. And we
were having a conversation one day, and he said,
So young man, how do you feel about sales and
selling things to people? And I was like, no,
I'm not into sales. He said, I want you to understand
that for the rest of your life and everything
previous in your life, you have been selling.
You've been selling yourself to everyone around
you. The first time that you met that person
that caught your eye, you're trying to sell yourself
to that person. Yeah. The first time that you
went to that job. You're trying to sell yourself
to that employer. And the rest of your life,
you are your own product that you're going to
be marketing to the world. And I went, I had
never thought about that. That was just like
two years ago. So with you saying that, that
means that you're right. Yeah. I mean, I had
an old -timer put his arm around me and kind
of feed me a version of that. And it never left,
ever. So when we talk about going into people's
homes or people's businesses, it's... It kind
of falls in line with integrity. Yeah, 100%.
And all the stuff that comes with that. So I
take that very seriously, and it's something
I pride myself on and push out there to the students
I have. I may not be the smartest or the best
wrench turner or the most outgoing. but I am
the most genuine. Isn't that cool? Yeah. And
it doesn't feel great. It does. To just be yourself,
wear crazy hats and costumes. But bring knowledge
along with that. I mean, that's the ace up the
sleeve. You have to also be good at this a little
bit. You can't just go out and be a clown and
expect everyone's going to come enjoy your class.
They're going to enjoy it, but they may not come
back. But once they have that fun and then they
actually learn from it. And they walk away and
they go, oh, dang, I enjoyed that. I enjoyed
doing this stuff. One of the best compliments
that we ever get from our students on the product
that we deliver is that they are tired at the
end of our four hours. That's a great compliment
and a great pride that I get from them is that
they are tired. Not physically. Yeah. Because
they're in school. They don't turn wretched.
Right. Being mentally tired. You mentally force
-fed them. That's it. Yeah. It's like, here's
the garden hose. I'm going to crank the pressure
up. Hold on. Yeah, come on. Let's have fun. Let's
do some experiments, and then let's talk about
why we're doing them, what we're trying to get
you to understand. It can go a million different
ways, but why is this water boiling and we didn't
put any heat on it? You know? That kind of stuff.
Yeah, make them think outside of the box and
start going, okay. This is not what I thought
it was. This is like me in a career. I get to
use my brains to do something. It's really cool.
I mean, it really is. And field techs out there
that think they can, they should. Yeah. And just
give it a try. You can always go back to turning
wrenches. That's exactly right. They're going
to always need you doing that. That's what I
said about this job. People are like, so how
was this going to go, right? How far are you
taking this? I'm riding this sucker out until
I go back to turning wrenches. There you go.
I think you'll be okay because your heart's in
the right place, right? You know, all right.
So let me ask you this. So I have this like personal
belief in our industry that, and it's probably
other industries, but I like to talk about mine.
I think that those that have like servant hearts
are the ones that like excel in this industry,
like that truly enjoy serving other human beings,
doing good for other people. You just thrive
in this industry. I agree. But I just think for
me, that's, those are the people I tend to gravitate
to the most anyway. Just people who are kind
in their spirit and want to really kind of, I
know it's cliche, but like, customer service
but like actually being somebody's uh like what's
the phrase i'll say to the student like i'm yours
until we're done because you're you're paying
for the time yeah so to it it's multi -leveled
i'm not getting it out the right way but like
taking a consumer by the hand and guiding them
through all these processes not just throwing
them into a 16 seer equipment it's anything like
that but explaining to them how heat pumps are
supposed to function and why you're not supposed
to call us because you see ice outside. Yeah.
Not all the time. Right. Just little things like
that. The people part is the most important part.
I think so. Because I think at the end of everything
that we do, all the fun, the hats and the laughing
and the turning wrenches, what it boils down
to is it's not an air conditioning business,
not a refrigeration business. It's a people business.
It's a people business, isn't it? At the end
of the day, whether it's in education or... with
a customer service partner, residential, or with
maintenance men in commercial. It's all people.
Interacting and just being nice people. I think
that's one of the good things about the trade.
I do too. I think it is. It took me a long time
to figure that out. I thought it was just because
I like to fix stuff. But it wasn't. It was like
I like to fix stuff for people. Yeah. And just
be helpful. Yeah. And have a servant's heart
and kind of service over self. Yeah. There's
a lot of things in the trade that are positive
that it brings those out. And so any technicians
should dabble in the teaching part of it. And
you might find that you like it. Yeah, I agree.
You might find the feedback that you get from
students is invaluable. Or they come up to you
and they tell you things like, you know, thank
you for helping me with this or with that. And
you got to tell them, listen, I'm a small piece
in that. You got up and came to school every
day. Yeah. You study. So therefore, when it's.
Time for an employer to ask a question about
who's that person. Yeah. All I'm doing is directing
them to somebody who did what they were supposed
to do. Yeah, that's it. From the get -go. From
the beginning. Yeah. So the servant heart is
something that's in the best people in general.
You could have left HVAC off of that. That is
true too, isn't it though? You know, Eugene Silverstein,
I think he kind of sums that up for me the best.
He said there's really, there's two. There's
two types of educators, but it's really like
there's two types of people. There's two types.
Get it out. He said it last night. I know. Income
and outcome. Yeah. So, you know, it's you teach
for the income or you teach for the outcome.
It's just like life. You do life for the income
or you do life for the outcome, right? I say
a version of that to my students. I do. I say
at the end of the day, all these jobs pay the
same, not enough. Dang. Right. Not enough. Not
enough. So what's going to get you out of bed?
Right. Whether you have fun and you love what
you do. Yeah, and that does. It gets you up.
I mean, it truly does. And what makes the conference
so thrilling is that most everybody here kind
of feels the same way. They do. That's why they're
here, right? That's the best part about this.
So it's being around a bunch of people who love
what they do or are passionate about what they
do. Teachers that are putting presentations together
that are... Pushing the industry forward. It's
exciting. It's very exciting. It's one of the
coolest things. I can't throw enough appreciation
on you guys for that. For coming out here and
being a part of this and seeing everybody in
action do their thing. Seeing you dressed up,
realizing I'm not the only one that does stuff
like that. This conference is what made me. When
I got asked if I'd be interested in teaching,
I came out of the field, took a huge pay cut.
got in that class for the first time and i was
lost so they sent me here and i came here after
that first year and it was like oh my gosh like
when i was in the field i knew my tools i had
my tool bag right i knew every tool in that sucker
and i knew how to use it and it was going to
make me money and i was going to make a good
life and i was going to change people's lives
when i got in the classroom i was like Where
my tools go. Yeah. And so I had to relearn all
them tools, and that's what this conference did
for me. So, yeah, dude, I am so grateful that
you're here. Yeah, appreciate it. This is where
I think it all begins for us as educators, like
finding those new tools. And I highly encourage
every tech that's out there. You've been in the
field for a while. You're getting comfortable
in your skin. You might be starting to get a
little bit bored with what you're doing. It might
be time to give back. Yeah, it might be time
for the next challenge. Yep. The next challenge,
because I can guarantee you one thing for certain.
No two days are the same. No two questions are
the same. And it is a much different animal to
understand it and to be able to redeliver it
to somebody on their level. Yeah. It's easy to
talk to techs, right? Right. We talk the same
language. Same language. Two choices. You're
going to take this information or you're going
to get out of my van. Oh, yeah. Remember those
days? Yeah, I do. You can't do that in the schoolroom.
No. You can't do that. That's not an option.
You have to be successful. You have to. so you
have to deliver it water it down you know filter
it whatever it takes so that that student which
is our customer gets out of that chair and leaves
with something more than they came with huge
challenge right but that's part of uh i don't
know how you are in the field but Not backing
down from any challenges at all. I will stay
at this unit for 12 hours. There will be a solution.
Something. Hammer maintenance is going to get
it done. Whatever it is, right? So it's kind
of that same mentality. The same mentality where
you just figure it out on the job. And if you're
that person that's genuine about it, you're not
going to put a product out there that's bad.
So because of that, you will find yourself in
places like this. Where you can get the industry
standard information. Keep going. Keep pushing.
Keep going. Keep pushing. That's the latest podcast.
Pull another young fella up. Young lady up. And
keep the craft going. Because it's been good
to all of us, right? It has been good. It's been
good. Thank you, sir. Mac. It's been a pleasure.
It's been a pleasure, my friend. I've been waiting
to meet you for a while. Dude, we're going to
be yakking all the time after this. You know
that. I've been watching online what you've been
doing for a long time. A long time. We'll be
doing more of this stuff together, I guarantee
it. I hope so. All right, everyone. Hang in.
Check out what's going on. Where can they find
you on social media? That HVAC Mac. That's it.
One word like Prince. It's not as handsome or
as talented. Fire, buddy. You can also find me
in Dallas, Texas at a local trade school. Local
trade school. All right, everyone. Thanks for
joining us today.