Welcome back to Teaching the Unteachables, where we dive into teaching and learning methodologies
for professionals like you.
This episode brought to you by Universal Technical Institute.
For over 55 years, UTI has been teaching students the skills needed to succeed.
Learn more at uti.edu.
We always try to do our best to bring you the highest quality presentation, the highest
quality content, and the highest caliber of educators in the industry.
So today we're going to be hanging out with Lou Vendrell from Universal Technical Institute.
Lou, how are you doing, sir?
Very good.
Thank you for having me.
Absolutely.
It's our pleasure.
So now we're going to dive a little bit deeper when we get into how do we actually set up
our programs?
Lou, I mean, we look back at the history of HVAC.
We didn't really change a whole lot over, you know, probably 50 years.
And so some of the technologies we had served their purpose, but that is all starting to
change.
Now, Lou has been traveling the country setting up programs.
Now, if there is any person in the industry that has the experience with starting programs
from scratch and building them or taking existing programs and developing them into completely
new programs, Lou's the man.
All right.
Thanks, Lou.
So, Lou, tell us what you're doing right now.
Sure.
So a little bit about me, just 20 plus years in the industry, skilled trades, originally
an HVAC student graduate from a trade school.
Very proud of that.
Went out into the industry, worked, became an instructor and eventually worked my way
into education.
So what I've done and somehow worked my way into this niche is was able to develop new
programs and just got a good knack for it and picking out kind of what's antiquated,
what needs to be upgraded and building programs from really small spaces to building programs
really large spaces.
And so we just got really good at it.
And it's been quite a riot over the last 20 years.
Exactly.
And that's really what we're going to be talking about is, you know, what does that look like?
Where do you start?
Whether I have an existing program or I am redeveloping a program that may have been
idle for a while.
We've had a lot of that.
We've had a lot of programs that have been reaching out going, hey, we used to have an
HVAC program and it kind of fizzled out.
The instructor retired and didn't do anything for a while.
Now we're wanting to reimplement our programs, but we need to know where to actually begin.
And that's really kind of the heart of things.
But we're going to see a lot of high performance heat pumps moving into the industry.
And we are already seeing our low GWP refrigerants, R32 and R454B hitting our local distributors,
which means our technicians moving into the industry are going to see a transitional industry.
And so we want to make sure that we're preparing them for that.
So Lou, I'm going to start handing this over and let's just think about this.
Like where do we begin if we're going to either newly evaluate or reevaluate an HVAC program?
Sure.
So you know, you want to do what we call the initial due diligence or market feasibility.
And what that means is essentially you want to test the market, pressure test the market
to ensure that there's growth, that the financial stability of that market, if you're catering
to a local employment market, that that market is growing, that there's construction going
on.
So for example, here in sunny Florida, we're launching a new program here in Orlando.
And one of the rationale or reason behind that is you have, for instance, Universal
Opening a brand new parks called Epic Universe.
And they're putting millions and millions of dollars into this area.
And there's opportunity there for additional trades.
Obviously, HVAC is one of them.
And so we look at, you want to look at market factors that will help you make the decision
determination if a program is going to be viable there from a market standpoint, as
well as employment standpoint, which is very important.
One scenario I remember there was a market area we were researching and we didn't really
could identify employers.
And this wasn't in HVAC.
It was in CNC machining, another skilled trade that I oversee.
We couldn't type of employers wanting in that market.
And so we told the association that was representing, because it's also important you identify
proper associations that support the industry.
We told the association of CNC said, if you bring us the employees, we will build it.
And the employers rather, you bring us the employers, we will build it.
And they showed up with over 100 employers.
And at that moment, we realized, well, we can certainly employ our graduates.
There's a market here.
We just didn't see it.
So the associations is also a big benefit and support avenue for a new program.
They can open doors that you might not see are there.
I think that's extremely important when we're looking at our program.
Because I think for too many decades, we've relied on a steady supply of a few contractors.
So if our program is functioning and we're placing students, but we're only placing them
with one type of employment, it limits the scope of our program.
So we talk a lot about installation, where so many of our vocational programs are focused
heavily on the installation and not on service because the companies that they are working
with tend to do lots of installation.
And so for an industry, we're going to have a lot of new technology that's going to require
new skill sets, especially for those that are heavily involved with IT.
And our younger generations are much more comfortable with IT than like you and I, we
have to kind of learn to grow with the changes in technology.
All right, let's talk about partnerships, alliances, and that inaugural PAC meeting.
Let's dive a little bit deeper into that because I know we've all probably got some different
aspects that we can chime in on this one.
So I've coined this inaugural PAC meeting name in the industry.
And it's funny because it's circulated and everybody now refers to at least in our little
niche industry, the inaugural PAC meeting.
And what I mean by that is, you know, a typical PAC meeting, professional advisory council,
will give you feedback on placements, right?
But the end, and so, and which is critical for accreditation purposes, right?
So they'll give you feedback on the placements of your students, are they doing well?
Can they turn a screwdriver?
Can they use a meter?
And you get very critical feedback at that point.
But the inaugural, you won't get the outcome information, right?
And so you'll get just the initial introduction.
So the inaugural for me is really a networking event for the contractors to get to know the
school, to get to know the program, to get to know the curriculum that you're proposing.
And so what I like to do is before we submit programs to the accrediting body or the state,
whoever's going to approve the program, I like to have the contractors review the proposed
curriculum and get their feedback.
And I think it's important because, for example, one deciding factor that changes all the time
is whether or not we teach sheet metal versus duck board.
Absolutely.
Right.
And so it depends on the region.
Yeah.
So, but it's always a question I push back onto the contractors, like, well, what are
you guys doing?
Like, places in Texas, you know, Austin apparently is a duck board driven area, but apparently
Dallas in our PAC meeting, like sheet metal, still the same state, you know.
So very interesting feedback that we get.
But I think the point is that that is the feedback you want to tailor the curriculum
to the area that you're going to service, meaning the type of students you're placing
into that area.
So you want to tailor that curriculum to service the local market.
I was on a virtual PAC meeting just probably a month ago in my local area for a local community
college.
And in that conversation, there was a contractor that was very involved with the curriculum,
very involved with giving input on what was changing.
They were aware that there was new types of equipment, new refrigerants.
So they were asking for the curriculum to be updated to include that.
And then they asked if they could come take a look at the program sometime.
And the school said, yeah, you've never been here and said, no, I've been giving input
for two years, but I've never actually seen the facility.
I'd love to come check it out sometime.
And then immediately I started thinking about that importance that you're saying, making
that connection, getting those contractors, getting those distributors and equipment manufacturers
in the actual facility ahead of time to understand what they're actually seeing.
So we'll have an idea of what that potential outcome can be without knowing you're just
asking for things and hoping that it's going to be accomplished.
That's exactly it.
You know, 100%.
And you know, you also during that inaugural PAC meeting, you want to get into the wholesale
partners.
I think the wholesale partners are such a key partner in any HRAC program.
One because they're helping you with discounts on consumables and capex, you know, when you're
needing to replace new furnaces and condensers in the program, you're getting special pricing,
in some cases donations.
Right.
And so I think those are critical.
You know, you'd be surprised how many programs I've evaluated as a consultant just to help
them grow that they don't have relationships with local wholesalers.
And so that's I think that's a huge opportunity.
And you know, you also want to be able to, you know, I'm a big proponent offering students
toolkits, you know, giving them the a good starter set, you know, a good quality set
that will last them a long time.
You know, so I think that makes and breaks programs when you're able to offer students
good solid starting toolkit, have partnership with wholesalers.
I used to partner with the local Johnson.
They got to know me early on in my career in New Jersey because I used to show up and
I used to ask them to give me their banners off the wall all the time.
And the owners, you know, they were at that time, they started off really early on and
they used to work the counter.
So really great, great, great team there.
And they had no problem.
They would give me the banners off of their walls.
And so I think it's really important, you know, that you you partner with the wholesalers
for sure.
Yeah, I was actually a technical trainer for a local Johnstone supply for about four and
a half years, and I personally had a hard time getting rid of equipment.
I had a hard time finding enough schools to take my scratch and dent equipment at the
end of the year.
And so there's a lot of schools that don't realize the availability of parts, warranty
parts that get thrown away that, yeah, they're bad, but they're parts equipment that is scratch
and dent that is a good write off for the actual distributor.
And so I would I had one one technical school is actually a high school program.
And at least once a year, I'd give them a call and go, hey, bring a truck and a trailer
and they would haul off a couple tons of brand new equipment.
And I had other schools that I would make the offer to.
And you know, maybe they couldn't get through their request for it because there are there's
administrations that struggle with those free items.
And so I would just simply sell them for a dollar.
And so there's ways that you can work with your local distributors and the local distributors
would be happy to work with you and help prepare you.
Because remember, we're all in the role in the business of selling really when it comes
down to our heart and our passion is in doing things properly.
But inevitably, we're we're giving back to a community.
We're trying to prepare people for working in our industry.
And so for a distributor, if they can work with a local technical training facility to
help prepare students for their own contractors to recognize brands that they sell, then
they're going to be very interested in working with your school.
So incredibly important partnerships to have.
Hundred percent.
You know, I convinced a Johnstone supply in the same that those same folks in New Jersey
to give us at that time, they used to give out the big catalogs, remember the huge, thick
catalogs.
Now it's all digital, but they used to give them.
We used to get a pallet to the school, you know, just to give away to students.
And they were happy to give every student one catalog because they knew that was a future
customer, so they saw the you know, the investment opportunity there for them.
You know, lastly, on there, the UA.
And so that's a huge, huge opportunity there that I also see a lot of schools that don't
take advantage of and such an easy one to do so.
You just show up to the local UA, you know, chapter there and introduce yourself.
And in a lot of cases, they'll be happy to do articulation agreements with you as long
as the curriculum meets certain guides.
But you know, obviously the you know, when you're credited by HVAC excellence, you automatically
get that that that bonus feature.
But I've seen schools also get articulation agreements outside of that, which is also
a plus.
So there's other avenues to take advantage of that.
And so I think the local UA chapters are certainly a big deal to to include in your development
of a new program.
Yeah.
And I have the open conversations about those opportunities because there's there are educators
that don't understand the the consequences of encouraging students to leave a program
to join, you know, like an apprenticeship and keeping those open conversations about
you know, the the actual educational flow where you can get all those fundamentals through
your program.
The program can place students if I'm placing with a contractor, I'm placing them
in a UA apprenticeship.
It's the same type of placement.
I'm getting them into a role that is preparing them for their future.
And especially those, you know, students that have an interest in the more advanced pieces
of equipment, they are very intrigued with IT and the way information flows.
It helps prepare them for those next stages, because there's a lot of students that leave
a vocational program, not knowing what those next steps are, they assume that they leave
a program and they go to work for a contractor.
And that contractor is going to get them anywhere they want to go in their future.
And that's not always the case.
So making those connections of where those avenues are, even other than just the contractor
is extremely important.
Okay, now now let's really dive into it, Lou.
Let's get into curriculum.
And let's get into credentialing and understanding how those work hand in hand in a program.
Yes.
So it's a curriculum, very important topic.
It's one of the, you know, the most of the foundation really of your whole core program.
And so what you want to make sure that you have quality curriculum that's constantly
being updated.
And so one of the school one of the, you know, consistent issues I see with some schools
is that they'll they'll implement a curriculum, but then they don't update it and they don't
stay up to date with the latest trends and technologies that are taking place.
And then that's when you start seeing people using, you know, still having like R22, you
know, you know, it's important, but, you know, this is still out there, right.
But you know, they don't do the upgrades and then administration doesn't really understand
that the industry is changing in that, for example, 812s are critical and now you have
to make an investment in new equipment and certain tools.
And so that's that's where it becomes, you know, critical for the for the first successful
program is to ensure they have quality curriculum and that it's constantly being updated.
So I'm a big fan of turnkey curriculum.
And what I mean by that is just curriculum that's fully built out, you know, very little,
you know, development from a teacher's standpoint.
You know, I don't need to build lesson plans.
You know, lesson plans are already done.
PowerPoint's already done.
You know, exams already completed.
So and then the publisher, if the publisher is in charge of doing the update, and that's
super, right, because that's just one less thing I need to worry about.
But you know that that that that's just absolutely the curriculum developments is certainly a
critical element.
You want to give yourself at least six months if you're doing it from scratch to have a
good runway for for having a complete full curriculum.
Yeah, people don't realize how much work it takes to build a complete curriculum.
Take an example.
Jason Objutes low GWP program that we have here at ESCO.
We get calls often.
I got one yesterday from a local asking, hey, I think I think I need to build a low GWP
curriculum for my class.
And there is a lot of research that I need to do.
Where do I start?
Because I know that I'm going to have to invest probably a semester in putting this together.
And I said, oh, are you looking for like a book to talk about it?
He said, yeah, boy, that'd be great.
So are you looking for PowerPoint presentations to be able to instruct you through the entire
classroom with instructor notes?
He's like, man, now we're cooking.
I said, what about assessments and certifications that go along with that?
An e-learning course?
He's like, I'd be dreaming.
And I'm like, we'll take care of you because we understand that need.
That's why we're all here.
We're educators trying to help you as an educator be successful.
We're all here as a community to help you grow.
And you're right.
If you can invest more time with your students and less time building your curriculum.
No, I agree.
I applaud ESCO for its support for the industry and the instructors.
It's one thing to know, be a technician and know how to troubleshoot.
It's another thing to take your skills and teach.
Organizations like ESCO help that bridge that gap and helping people from technician to
instructor it's a big, big, big crossover.
So a lot of support.
Absolutely it is.
So once you get a solid curriculum that you know it's going to be updated and you have
the latest and greatest in there and you're maintaining that curriculum timeline, you
can move on to credentials.
And I think credentials is also an area that needs to give equal importance.
What type of credentials are you going to offer in the industry?
And so I say you look at there's so many credentials you can offer that you can include into a
curriculum other than throwing the whole kitchen sink at it and just offering everything.
But I think that strategically for a program it's important to again look at the market
that you're servicing and based on the market target those credentials and embed them into
your curriculum.
That's why it's important that you have that inaugural PAC meeting because this meeting
is taking place before you submit to your accreditation body.
And so you can make changes to the curriculum based on feedback you're getting from that
local market.
And then so you really cater the curriculum to what the industry is asking for in your
area.
We are so grateful to have you here with us.
It's been a wonderful topic, wonderful conversation.
A lot of people still out there hanging in going hey this is what we came here for is
to learn how to be better together.
Thank you for having me Cliffs.
It's certainly a pleasure to be with you guys and love talking about this stuff.
So I'm happy to do it next time.