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Welcome back to Teaching the Unteachables, where we dive into teaching and learning methodologies

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for professionals like you.

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This episode brought to you by Universal Technical Institute.

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For over 55 years, UTI has been teaching students the skills needed to succeed.

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Learn more at uti.edu.

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We always try to do our best to bring you the highest quality presentation, the highest

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quality content, and the highest caliber of educators in the industry.

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So today we're going to be hanging out with Lou Vendrell from Universal Technical Institute.

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Lou, how are you doing, sir?

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Very good.

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Thank you for having me.

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Absolutely.

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It's our pleasure.

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So now we're going to dive a little bit deeper when we get into how do we actually set up

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our programs?

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Lou, I mean, we look back at the history of HVAC.

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We didn't really change a whole lot over, you know, probably 50 years.

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And so some of the technologies we had served their purpose, but that is all starting to

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change.

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Now, Lou has been traveling the country setting up programs.

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Now, if there is any person in the industry that has the experience with starting programs

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from scratch and building them or taking existing programs and developing them into completely

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new programs, Lou's the man.

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All right.

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Thanks, Lou.

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So, Lou, tell us what you're doing right now.

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Sure.

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So a little bit about me, just 20 plus years in the industry, skilled trades, originally

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an HVAC student graduate from a trade school.

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Very proud of that.

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Went out into the industry, worked, became an instructor and eventually worked my way

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into education.

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So what I've done and somehow worked my way into this niche is was able to develop new

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programs and just got a good knack for it and picking out kind of what's antiquated,

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what needs to be upgraded and building programs from really small spaces to building programs

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really large spaces.

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And so we just got really good at it.

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And it's been quite a riot over the last 20 years.

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Exactly.

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And that's really what we're going to be talking about is, you know, what does that look like?

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Where do you start?

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Whether I have an existing program or I am redeveloping a program that may have been

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idle for a while.

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We've had a lot of that.

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We've had a lot of programs that have been reaching out going, hey, we used to have an

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HVAC program and it kind of fizzled out.

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The instructor retired and didn't do anything for a while.

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Now we're wanting to reimplement our programs, but we need to know where to actually begin.

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And that's really kind of the heart of things.

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But we're going to see a lot of high performance heat pumps moving into the industry.

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And we are already seeing our low GWP refrigerants, R32 and R454B hitting our local distributors,

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which means our technicians moving into the industry are going to see a transitional industry.

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And so we want to make sure that we're preparing them for that.

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So Lou, I'm going to start handing this over and let's just think about this.

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Like where do we begin if we're going to either newly evaluate or reevaluate an HVAC program?

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Sure.

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So you know, you want to do what we call the initial due diligence or market feasibility.

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And what that means is essentially you want to test the market, pressure test the market

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to ensure that there's growth, that the financial stability of that market, if you're catering

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to a local employment market, that that market is growing, that there's construction going

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on.

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So for example, here in sunny Florida, we're launching a new program here in Orlando.

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And one of the rationale or reason behind that is you have, for instance, Universal

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Opening a brand new parks called Epic Universe.

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And they're putting millions and millions of dollars into this area.

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And there's opportunity there for additional trades.

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Obviously, HVAC is one of them.

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And so we look at, you want to look at market factors that will help you make the decision

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determination if a program is going to be viable there from a market standpoint, as

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well as employment standpoint, which is very important.

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One scenario I remember there was a market area we were researching and we didn't really

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could identify employers.

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And this wasn't in HVAC.

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It was in CNC machining, another skilled trade that I oversee.

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We couldn't type of employers wanting in that market.

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And so we told the association that was representing, because it's also important you identify

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proper associations that support the industry.

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We told the association of CNC said, if you bring us the employees, we will build it.

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And the employers rather, you bring us the employers, we will build it.

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And they showed up with over 100 employers.

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And at that moment, we realized, well, we can certainly employ our graduates.

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There's a market here.

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We just didn't see it.

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So the associations is also a big benefit and support avenue for a new program.

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They can open doors that you might not see are there.

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I think that's extremely important when we're looking at our program.

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Because I think for too many decades, we've relied on a steady supply of a few contractors.

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So if our program is functioning and we're placing students, but we're only placing them

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with one type of employment, it limits the scope of our program.

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So we talk a lot about installation, where so many of our vocational programs are focused

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heavily on the installation and not on service because the companies that they are working

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with tend to do lots of installation.

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And so for an industry, we're going to have a lot of new technology that's going to require

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new skill sets, especially for those that are heavily involved with IT.

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And our younger generations are much more comfortable with IT than like you and I, we

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have to kind of learn to grow with the changes in technology.

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All right, let's talk about partnerships, alliances, and that inaugural PAC meeting.

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Let's dive a little bit deeper into that because I know we've all probably got some different

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aspects that we can chime in on this one.

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So I've coined this inaugural PAC meeting name in the industry.

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And it's funny because it's circulated and everybody now refers to at least in our little

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niche industry, the inaugural PAC meeting.

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And what I mean by that is, you know, a typical PAC meeting, professional advisory council,

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will give you feedback on placements, right?

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But the end, and so, and which is critical for accreditation purposes, right?

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So they'll give you feedback on the placements of your students, are they doing well?

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Can they turn a screwdriver?

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Can they use a meter?

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And you get very critical feedback at that point.

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But the inaugural, you won't get the outcome information, right?

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And so you'll get just the initial introduction.

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So the inaugural for me is really a networking event for the contractors to get to know the

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school, to get to know the program, to get to know the curriculum that you're proposing.

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And so what I like to do is before we submit programs to the accrediting body or the state,

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whoever's going to approve the program, I like to have the contractors review the proposed

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curriculum and get their feedback.

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And I think it's important because, for example, one deciding factor that changes all the time

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is whether or not we teach sheet metal versus duck board.

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Absolutely.

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Right.

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And so it depends on the region.

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Yeah.

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So, but it's always a question I push back onto the contractors, like, well, what are

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you guys doing?

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Like, places in Texas, you know, Austin apparently is a duck board driven area, but apparently

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Dallas in our PAC meeting, like sheet metal, still the same state, you know.

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So very interesting feedback that we get.

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But I think the point is that that is the feedback you want to tailor the curriculum

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to the area that you're going to service, meaning the type of students you're placing

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into that area.

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So you want to tailor that curriculum to service the local market.

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I was on a virtual PAC meeting just probably a month ago in my local area for a local community

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college.

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And in that conversation, there was a contractor that was very involved with the curriculum,

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very involved with giving input on what was changing.

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They were aware that there was new types of equipment, new refrigerants.

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So they were asking for the curriculum to be updated to include that.

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And then they asked if they could come take a look at the program sometime.

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And the school said, yeah, you've never been here and said, no, I've been giving input

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for two years, but I've never actually seen the facility.

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I'd love to come check it out sometime.

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And then immediately I started thinking about that importance that you're saying, making

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that connection, getting those contractors, getting those distributors and equipment manufacturers

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in the actual facility ahead of time to understand what they're actually seeing.

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So we'll have an idea of what that potential outcome can be without knowing you're just

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asking for things and hoping that it's going to be accomplished.

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That's exactly it.

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You know, 100%.

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And you know, you also during that inaugural PAC meeting, you want to get into the wholesale

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partners.

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I think the wholesale partners are such a key partner in any HRAC program.

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One because they're helping you with discounts on consumables and capex, you know, when you're

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needing to replace new furnaces and condensers in the program, you're getting special pricing,

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in some cases donations.

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Right.

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And so I think those are critical.

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You know, you'd be surprised how many programs I've evaluated as a consultant just to help

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them grow that they don't have relationships with local wholesalers.

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And so that's I think that's a huge opportunity.

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And you know, you also want to be able to, you know, I'm a big proponent offering students

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toolkits, you know, giving them the a good starter set, you know, a good quality set

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that will last them a long time.

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You know, so I think that makes and breaks programs when you're able to offer students

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good solid starting toolkit, have partnership with wholesalers.

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I used to partner with the local Johnson.

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They got to know me early on in my career in New Jersey because I used to show up and

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I used to ask them to give me their banners off the wall all the time.

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And the owners, you know, they were at that time, they started off really early on and

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they used to work the counter.

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So really great, great, great team there.

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And they had no problem.

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They would give me the banners off of their walls.

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And so I think it's really important, you know, that you you partner with the wholesalers

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for sure.

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Yeah, I was actually a technical trainer for a local Johnstone supply for about four and

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a half years, and I personally had a hard time getting rid of equipment.

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I had a hard time finding enough schools to take my scratch and dent equipment at the

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end of the year.

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And so there's a lot of schools that don't realize the availability of parts, warranty

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parts that get thrown away that, yeah, they're bad, but they're parts equipment that is scratch

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and dent that is a good write off for the actual distributor.

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And so I would I had one one technical school is actually a high school program.

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And at least once a year, I'd give them a call and go, hey, bring a truck and a trailer

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and they would haul off a couple tons of brand new equipment.

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And I had other schools that I would make the offer to.

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And you know, maybe they couldn't get through their request for it because there are there's

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administrations that struggle with those free items.

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And so I would just simply sell them for a dollar.

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And so there's ways that you can work with your local distributors and the local distributors

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would be happy to work with you and help prepare you.

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Because remember, we're all in the role in the business of selling really when it comes

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down to our heart and our passion is in doing things properly.

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But inevitably, we're we're giving back to a community.

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We're trying to prepare people for working in our industry.

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And so for a distributor, if they can work with a local technical training facility to

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help prepare students for their own contractors to recognize brands that they sell, then

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they're going to be very interested in working with your school.

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So incredibly important partnerships to have.

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Hundred percent.

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You know, I convinced a Johnstone supply in the same that those same folks in New Jersey

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to give us at that time, they used to give out the big catalogs, remember the huge, thick

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catalogs.

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Now it's all digital, but they used to give them.

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We used to get a pallet to the school, you know, just to give away to students.

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And they were happy to give every student one catalog because they knew that was a future

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customer, so they saw the you know, the investment opportunity there for them.

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You know, lastly, on there, the UA.

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And so that's a huge, huge opportunity there that I also see a lot of schools that don't

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take advantage of and such an easy one to do so.

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You just show up to the local UA, you know, chapter there and introduce yourself.

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And in a lot of cases, they'll be happy to do articulation agreements with you as long

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as the curriculum meets certain guides.

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But you know, obviously the you know, when you're credited by HVAC excellence, you automatically

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get that that that bonus feature.

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But I've seen schools also get articulation agreements outside of that, which is also

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a plus.

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So there's other avenues to take advantage of that.

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And so I think the local UA chapters are certainly a big deal to to include in your development

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of a new program.

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Yeah.

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And I have the open conversations about those opportunities because there's there are educators

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that don't understand the the consequences of encouraging students to leave a program

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to join, you know, like an apprenticeship and keeping those open conversations about

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you know, the the actual educational flow where you can get all those fundamentals through

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your program.

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The program can place students if I'm placing with a contractor, I'm placing them

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in a UA apprenticeship.

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It's the same type of placement.

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I'm getting them into a role that is preparing them for their future.

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And especially those, you know, students that have an interest in the more advanced pieces

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of equipment, they are very intrigued with IT and the way information flows.

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It helps prepare them for those next stages, because there's a lot of students that leave

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a vocational program, not knowing what those next steps are, they assume that they leave

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a program and they go to work for a contractor.

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And that contractor is going to get them anywhere they want to go in their future.

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And that's not always the case.

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So making those connections of where those avenues are, even other than just the contractor

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is extremely important.

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Okay, now now let's really dive into it, Lou.

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Let's get into curriculum.

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And let's get into credentialing and understanding how those work hand in hand in a program.

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Yes.

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So it's a curriculum, very important topic.

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It's one of the, you know, the most of the foundation really of your whole core program.

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And so what you want to make sure that you have quality curriculum that's constantly

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being updated.

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And so one of the school one of the, you know, consistent issues I see with some schools

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is that they'll they'll implement a curriculum, but then they don't update it and they don't

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stay up to date with the latest trends and technologies that are taking place.

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And then that's when you start seeing people using, you know, still having like R22, you

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know, you know, it's important, but, you know, this is still out there, right.

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But you know, they don't do the upgrades and then administration doesn't really understand

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that the industry is changing in that, for example, 812s are critical and now you have

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to make an investment in new equipment and certain tools.

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And so that's that's where it becomes, you know, critical for the for the first successful

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program is to ensure they have quality curriculum and that it's constantly being updated.

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So I'm a big fan of turnkey curriculum.

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And what I mean by that is just curriculum that's fully built out, you know, very little,

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you know, development from a teacher's standpoint.

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You know, I don't need to build lesson plans.

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You know, lesson plans are already done.

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PowerPoint's already done.

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You know, exams already completed.

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So and then the publisher, if the publisher is in charge of doing the update, and that's

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super, right, because that's just one less thing I need to worry about.

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But you know that that that that's just absolutely the curriculum developments is certainly a

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critical element.

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You want to give yourself at least six months if you're doing it from scratch to have a

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good runway for for having a complete full curriculum.

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Yeah, people don't realize how much work it takes to build a complete curriculum.

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Take an example.

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Jason Objutes low GWP program that we have here at ESCO.

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We get calls often.

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I got one yesterday from a local asking, hey, I think I think I need to build a low GWP

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curriculum for my class.

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And there is a lot of research that I need to do.

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Where do I start?

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Because I know that I'm going to have to invest probably a semester in putting this together.

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And I said, oh, are you looking for like a book to talk about it?

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He said, yeah, boy, that'd be great.

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So are you looking for PowerPoint presentations to be able to instruct you through the entire

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classroom with instructor notes?

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He's like, man, now we're cooking.

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I said, what about assessments and certifications that go along with that?

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An e-learning course?

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He's like, I'd be dreaming.

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And I'm like, we'll take care of you because we understand that need.

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That's why we're all here.

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We're educators trying to help you as an educator be successful.

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We're all here as a community to help you grow.

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And you're right.

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If you can invest more time with your students and less time building your curriculum.

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No, I agree.

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I applaud ESCO for its support for the industry and the instructors.

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It's one thing to know, be a technician and know how to troubleshoot.

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It's another thing to take your skills and teach.

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Organizations like ESCO help that bridge that gap and helping people from technician to

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instructor it's a big, big, big crossover.

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So a lot of support.

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Absolutely it is.

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So once you get a solid curriculum that you know it's going to be updated and you have

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the latest and greatest in there and you're maintaining that curriculum timeline, you

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can move on to credentials.

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And I think credentials is also an area that needs to give equal importance.

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What type of credentials are you going to offer in the industry?

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And so I say you look at there's so many credentials you can offer that you can include into a

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curriculum other than throwing the whole kitchen sink at it and just offering everything.

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But I think that strategically for a program it's important to again look at the market

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that you're servicing and based on the market target those credentials and embed them into

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your curriculum.

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That's why it's important that you have that inaugural PAC meeting because this meeting

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is taking place before you submit to your accreditation body.

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And so you can make changes to the curriculum based on feedback you're getting from that

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local market.

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And then so you really cater the curriculum to what the industry is asking for in your

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area.

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We are so grateful to have you here with us.

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It's been a wonderful topic, wonderful conversation.

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A lot of people still out there hanging in going hey this is what we came here for is

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to learn how to be better together.

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Thank you for having me Cliffs.

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It's certainly a pleasure to be with you guys and love talking about this stuff.

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So I'm happy to do it next time.