Tales from the trenches, stories forged in the fires of experience.
This episode brought to you by Lennox, a leader in energy efficient climate control solutions
for the HVACR industry.
Learn more at Lennox.com.
Well hello everyone, thank you for joining Did You Know?
The ESCO HVAC Podcast.
So today we're spending time with Dave Nichols, the training manager for Lennox Learning Solutions.
How are you doing Dave?
I'm great, thank you very much.
How are you?
I'm doing wonderful.
We're trying to build a larger inventory of our Tales from the Trenches stories.
And you and I got onto a really good topic that I think we're going to call the evolution
of the HVAC contractor.
Okay.
So when I got into the industry, I got into the industry in the late 90s in a small family
owned refrigeration and HVAC company.
So a lot of mom and pop restaurants, I did a lot of school corporations as well, but
we also worked on all of our neighbors furnaces and air conditioners.
So we were a very small contractor and I had friends that worked at larger contracting
companies.
But when I first started, we were actually doing all of our invoices in DOS and all of
our customers were on a card catalog.
And it was until about 2005.
Then we went to Windows.
You got into the 20th century.
I got into the 20th century.
And as we start talking about how technology is changing and training is changing and equipment
and refrigerants are all changing.
I feel like I'm back in that stage when we were phasing out a lot of our CFC equipment
in the commercial side.
And there was, there was a lot of turmoil because there were a lot of contractors that
were just saying, I don't want to do this.
I think I'm just, I think I'll just retire.
But then you had other companies going, I think I'll take advantage of this.
And that's kind of what I did.
I created a little niche in my industry where I wanted to work on equipment that nobody
else would work on, whether it was refrigerant wise or whether it was on controls.
And it did well for me.
And I think we're there again.
I think as contractors, we're going through a large transition and you could tell me all
about that.
You've witnessed a variety of changes within our industry.
Oh gosh, yes.
I remember in the eighties when Lennox first came out with the, with the pulse furnace,
the first 90% furnace on the market.
And somebody then said, well, I guess, I guess this is the best we're going to get.
And you know, me being the smart aleck I am turned around and said, well, we are not at
a hundred percent yet.
Well, you know, Lennox is actually pretty darn close right now.
We're at 99.5% officially in some of our furnaces.
Yeah.
So it's, it's amazing how things change.
I don't think anybody expected that 90% efficient furnace.
Gosh, I remember my dad, who was a design engineer for a cooking equipment manufacturer,
he had his gas license.
So he always worked on our furnace.
Now our furnace back then, I mean, if it was 60% efficient, I would be surprised.
And I mean, the simplest thing you've ever seen, right?
Probably a heat anticipator, a fan and a burner and just fired up every now and then and heated
the house.
Big old clunky thing, big old machine and big, huge ductwork coming up out of it.
Yeah.
And, and now we take a look at the size of furnaces that are 90% efficient, so much more,
and you open it up and it's, it's a little scary with all the wiring and all the technology
that's in there.
It's kind of like my car.
You know, I remember back in the day I had little British sports cars and I would rip
the engine apart, put it all back together again, and it would run surprisingly because
I had a whole bunch of nuts and bolts left over.
But now I open up the hood of my car and look at it and go, yep, that's an engine and close
the hood back down again, cause I ain't touching it.
Yeah.
And I always make this analogy into that.
Cause I'm very much into automotive as well.
It's been a passion of mine for as long as I've been able to tinker with vehicles.
And I always relate to when we made the transitions from carburation and mechanical timing into
fuel injection and electronic timing and how we had to still work on that same internal
combustion engine.
We just had to learn the controls that were associated with it.
And we're kind of there again in our industry where we've gotten comfortable doing something
for so long, working on something for so long that we've kind of dug our own hole into a
comfortable place that we don't want to get out of.
Yeah.
We're going to have to.
I agree.
I, that's human nature though, isn't it?
I mean, when you get comfortable with something, you don't want to see it go away.
You want to, you want to hold on to it and stay there.
One of the things that I always thought of in my careers, I always have to look for the
next best thing and, and, and be willing to challenge myself on something new.
And quite honestly, it happened to me early in my career.
I remember going to some fellow who had been with the company for quite a while and I said,
Hey, I just came up with this new way of doing this.
I think it might save you a lot of time, make it easier for you if you did it this, this
and this.
And he looked at me and he goes, Nope.
And I said, what do you mean?
And he said, no, I said, I've been doing it this way for 30 years.
Why would I change now?
And I walked away and thinking, if I ever get like that, just shoot me.
Right?
I mean, you've got, you've got to be open to new ways of doing things, new concepts,
new ideas.
Let's face it here.
You and I are, we're talking across computers.
We're actually looking at each other as if we're in the same room.
But you know, 10 years ago, I don't know that we could do this.
No, not, and definitely not have the quality that we have now.
Right.
And so even from the diagnostic side, you know, we have service tools that are allowing
this kind of capability.
We have, you know, installation and commissioning assistance from technology that is just changing
the way we look at our industry.
And I was, I was at a training class down at Oak Ridge national lab last week, Jason
Objute and I were down there.
And one of the contractors that was working on the facility, a union contractor came up
to me afterwards and said, you know, I've been listening to you guys's show.
I've been trying to tell my management that this refrigerant transition is coming and
they think it's like five years down the road.
And I'm afraid that they might fail.
Wow.
Yeah.
And I said, well, that's, that's really why we're doing this.
We're here to talk about being comfortable with changes and transitions and seeking the
education that you need if you don't have a comfortable or familiarness with it.
Yeah.
Well, you know, I think, you know, you and I both been through a refrigerant changes
in the past.
It's going to be like a falling off a cliff at the end of this year versus what it was
like when we went from our 22.
Yeah.
And you know, we look at 22 when we're talking in the nineties, it wasn't finishing its phase
out until 2020.
Yes, exactly.
Now with our HFC phase down, we're looking at 2036 and it's not even going to last that
long because we've already hit our 40% reduction.
We've got another 30 coming in a couple of years.
By time we hit that, there's not going to be much HFCs left.
And that's if we reclaim properly.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly right.
So we have to be prepared.
I mean, and I, I, I feared that we, the industry has sort of set itself up with the way we
did it in the past to the way it's going to happen this time.
And I think a lot of people are going to get some, some shock.
Yeah, I do too.
So let's think about this from like a contractor's perspective.
Sure.
You know, there were, there were processes that have changed.
Like one of the things that we had talked about is if we look at a contractor from 20
years ago, whatever service industry you were in, the focus was very much on that commitment
to your consumer.
And it was the relationship between your consumer.
And if you had an appointment for a particular time, he spent a lot of time making sure that
you were there at that appointment time.
And that has kind of changed.
And definitely since COVID.
Yeah, you know, I, I, I'm distressed that there are so many companies in, in, in the
industry, whether it's our industry or, or just in the service industry in general, that,
you know, when somebody calls looking for somebody to come to their home to perform
some level of service, they're given a window that is still, you know, maybe four hours.
And in one instance, I had somebody give me an eight hour window recently.
And that is so frustrating to the consumer.
So think about this, you know, you know, the cable companies get a bad rap, but I mean,
they give you a four hour window of when they're going to show up and you know, darn well,
that guy's not going to show up until the end of that window.
But as a consumer, you have to hang out on because you never know that guy might show
up at the beginning of the window.
So it's a crap shoot.
And then when that that person does show up, they don't communicate effectively.
They don't let you know that they're happy to be there.
It's kind of mundane job and they're, they're almost miserable.
And the homeowner is not happy because they're stressed out with the challenges.
And really and truly, you know, one of the things I used to tell my taxes when they get
to the door, the first thing they got to fix is the homeowner.
No, absolutely.
And then you go look at the equipment and then you communicate with the homeowner, let
them know what it is you found, what you're doing and all of that kind of stuff.
And you know, technicians tell me they hate to have a homeowner with them while they're
working.
Well, you know, show and tell is the best way to build value.
If you don't want somebody looking over your shoulder, you know, tell them what you're
doing because when they, when they have confidence that you, you know what you're doing and that
you're actually going to look after them, they might well go away.
But if they don't know, if you don't give them that confidence, they're going to sit
there and watch you forever.
Yeah.
So, so true.
You know, I used to be in technical support and whenever I was working with someone getting
involved with technical support, I'd always taught them that, you know, the job is called
technical support, but it's really technician support.
And if you're talking to a homeowner, it's not necessarily customer service, it's customer
support.
Yes.
And then you gain the service.
And that has definitely escaped us, particularly since we were talking earlier, since, you
know, 2019 to 2020 was a transitional period in customer service, unlike any other.
And we can make a very clear definition between that.
And so as, as contractors, as technicians, if you're, especially if you're a very young
technician and you don't know what we're talking about, there was a time before 2020 where
people really focused on each other a lot more.
Would you say so?
Yeah, I think so.
I think our ability to communicate has deteriorated.
Yes.
I was talking with somebody the other day, we, we, we go, when, whenever we go out for
dinner, or even if we're eating dinner at home, we never have our phones near us.
Right.
We're, we're actually talking with one another, but how often do you go to a restaurant and
a family of four is sitting at a table and every one of them is looking, staring at their
phone.
Now, I mean, there's no companionship, there's no relationship being built.
Nobody, nobody talks anymore.
They text one another and it's all short forms.
And I, you know, the English language, any language, it doesn't have to be English that
you're speaking, but whatever language you're speaking, it can be such a vibrant language
and, and so much can be shared with one another just by talking and having great ideas.
And I, I, I feared that we get so tied up in technology that we have forgotten how to
communicate effectively.
I know when I was growing up as a contractor, that was one of the things that was pounded
into me was communication.
Even outside of work.
So my, my father-in-law at the time was at, you know, Freemason and was very active in
masonry and encouraged me to be a part of that, to learn proper communication.
And that's actually really where I learned communication skills, but I was able to take
those communication skills that I was learning and then bring them back to work.
And then I became an effective communicator with my customers and it changed my career
completely.
Sure.
Yeah.
I had a similar situation, not quite like that, but I was encouraged to get out and
speak to groups more.
When you're trying to get a point across to a group of people, you have to be able to
communicate effectively.
Otherwise that you lose them, the audience behind.
And so you, one of the things that I've learned is you have to connect the dots for people.
Yes.
You, you might understand from A to Z, you know, how you're going to get there, but unless
you actually take people along the journey with you, not everybody's going to make the
connection like you will.
Our very own Eugene Silverstein says, you don't know the topic until you can teach it
to a third grader.
And that really makes sense.
Three ago, good point.
And I love that the first time I thought about it, I was like, Oh, not really.
Not that well, maybe that makes sense because you have to be able to explain it in a way
that someone who has no knowledge that is similar to yours could comprehend what you
are saying.
And so breaking that communication barrier is, it can be a challenge, but it's well
worth investing yourself to learn that.
Because there was times where we spent a lot of time communicating to each other and communicating
to customers.
And I also feel like that has changed in the last few decades.
I think so.
Well, you know, I think if you're going to sell somebody anything, doesn't matter whether
it's product or service or whatever it is, you have to build value and there's only one
way to build value.
And that is to effectively explain to homeowner what it is they're going to get, how you
go to business, what you're going to do for them, what the benefit is that they're going
to get from whatever service you're providing.
And if they understand the value, then they're more than prepared to pay the price.
But if they don't understand the value and you haven't built the value and they don't
understand the benefits, it all comes down to price and you'd leave so much money on
the table at that point.
Yeah, that's a really good perspective.
I'm sitting here thinking about the exact same analogy to contractors looking at the
changes that are happening in our industry.
And if I'm a contractor that is not embracing change and talking and learning and using
communications to become better educated on their products, they could literally lose
out on a sale just because of a lack of communication.
And if they don't understand the transitions that are happening, they don't understand
the education that could potentially be needed with the new products, they may not be able
to build that confidence in the consumer.
Correct.
Well, think about this.
How many people who are talking to a homeowner can effectively tell the homeowner about their
business?
So I use this as an example.
My wife one time had somebody into the house and she said to the person, she did know what
I did for a living, so they didn't help much.
She sort of baited the guy, but she said, tell me about your business.
Tell me about your company.
And he said, well, it's a small company and I guess that's the way we like it.
So that's all there is.
Well, what did she learn?
What did he share?
Nothing.
What's the value proposition?
Exactly.
So I think you need to be able to explain to the homeowner a brief history of the company,
how long it's been in business.
It doesn't matter whether it's small or large, each one can bring a different value to the
homeowner.
Be able to explain that and how you go to business.
And when you're talking to somebody, talking about the training that is put on by the business
and the fact that they're licensed and have insurance and pull permits and things like
that, that's huge value.
And if you're able to do that, your competition isn't.
So you've already built something that the competition can't build, which means the competition
is going to gravitate to the price, the lowest possible denominator, right?
Whereas you're building value and you're going to generate better income, more profitable
business than the other guy.
We're talking about training and a conversation that we had, I think it's extremely important
to talk about because a lot of contractors may not understand the potential that there
is in that.
There was a time where manufacturer training was really just focused on specific equipment
changes.
If I was getting training from my manufacturer, I was going to learn what has changed since
the previous model of equipment that I have been working on.
And that has made a shift at Linux.
And I'd love for us to talk about that a little bit.
Well, in our small group, we're kind of a business within a business.
We provide skill-based training.
So as an example, we have two levels of build attacks.
So we are encouraging contractors to go out, hire somebody green, maybe some technical
capabilities, but hire somebody-
No industry experience.
No industry experience, somebody with the right attitude and give them to us for three
weeks.
And after three weeks, they'll come out of the class with an EPA certificate.
They'll have a chance to challenge their NAIT ready to work certificate.
And they will be ready to go get in a truck and start running maintenance calls all day
long and do tune-ups on furnaces and air conditioners very professionally.
After a period of time, and they're ready to move on into a service situation where
it will become a service tech, bring it back to build the tech level two.
And after three weeks of that, they will have an opportunity to challenge their NAIT certification
with specialties.
And they'll be ready then to start actually properly diagnosing problems with the furnace
or the air conditioner and knowing what they need to do in order to fix it.
And so purely a skill-based product.
Now in our labs, it's all Lennox products.
So we're teaching them on Lennox product, but let's face it, the heating cycle or the
air conditioning cycle, the cooling cycle is primarily the same no matter who makes
it.
So we're really teaching the skill.
And we do the same thing on the sales and business side.
We teach people how to properly sell in this industry, giving homeowners four options,
not just one.
Let the homeowner choose what works best for them, identifying what their wants and their
needs are, identifying what the house actually needs, and putting it all together, presenting
some options to the homeowner and let the homeowner choose.
And I think too many people in the industry take that off away from the homeowner.
And today's consumer doesn't want to be sold to.
They want to know what their choices are and they want to make choice.
And we have to remember that they're the people that are actually going to pay the money.
And as long as we build value and the consumer believes that the value that they're getting
is worth the price they're paying, they'll pay it.
It's not all about lowest possible price.
They want something that's going to work, that's going to make them comfortable in their
homes, and they're prepared to pay for that.
Yeah, indeed.
All comes down to just being prepared for our consumer and being willing to evolve.
Yes.
And we talked about that earlier and how this business has evolved since the 1980s through
to now.
I've been in the business a long time when I start talking about the 1980s, but as I
said to you earlier, I remember when Lennox came out with the first 90% efficient furnace
called The Pulse and everybody thought that we'd hit the maximum back then.
Now we're talking about 99% efficient furnaces.
Amazing.
New technologies, new transitions.
Yes.
Dave Nichols is wonderful talking to you.
I really look forward to the opportunity to get to meet you and hang out in a classroom.
And by the way, in the early 2000s in my area, I was one of two people, my mentor and I were
the only technicians in about three counties that could work on the Lennox Pulse.
There you go.
I've set pressures many a times and changed diagrams.
Well sir, it's wonderful talking to you and we'll be talking again soon.
I look forward to it.
Have a great rest of your day.