1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,760 Tales from the trenches, stories forged in the fires of experience. 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:14,620 The foundations of a successful career always are surrounded by education and certification. 3 00:00:14,620 --> 00:00:20,080 Learn more about the progressive levels of certification at ESCO at escogroup.org. 4 00:00:20,080 --> 00:00:23,560 All right, everyone. 5 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:24,880 Thank you for joining Did You Know? 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,800 The ESCO HVAC Podcast. 7 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,440 So today we're going to we're going to look at things from a broader perspective. 8 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:32,440 We're hanging out with Aidan, Lucy. 9 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,440 Aidan, how are you today? 10 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:34,440 Not too bad. 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:35,440 How are you? 12 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:36,440 I'm doing really well, man. 13 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:42,240 Just trying to get comfortable with all the transitions that we have in our industries 14 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:47,540 between equipment and refrigerants and the demand for training, which is like really 15 00:00:47,540 --> 00:00:48,540 escalating here. 16 00:00:48,540 --> 00:00:54,680 And I thought it'd be a great opportunity for us to kind of talk about trades internationally. 17 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:56,000 So tell us where you're from, Aidan. 18 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,320 I'm from Ireland originally. 19 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:04,280 I started my refrigeration apprenticeship there in 2005. 20 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,240 And it's very different there because I was down in the country there. 21 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,760 So you know, there's no going to the wholesaler if you need parts. 22 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:15,360 You either have it in stock or you're you know, you're waiting a few days. 23 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:17,320 And the training is very different. 24 00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:19,580 It's a four year apprenticeship. 25 00:01:19,580 --> 00:01:22,220 You do seven phases, they call it. 26 00:01:22,220 --> 00:01:26,760 So you have three in training centers and then four with your employer. 27 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,320 Oh, OK. 28 00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:34,200 And your first time in school is actually usually away from home and it's six months. 29 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:35,200 Wow. 30 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:36,480 All right. 31 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:38,140 But it's an actual apprenticeship program. 32 00:01:38,140 --> 00:01:43,700 So here in the United States, we don't think a lot about how the apprenticeship structure 33 00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:45,640 is except for like in the UA. 34 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:51,200 So the UA is, you know, our traditional apprenticeship program where you're you're doing classes 35 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,280 at a training facility, but you're also getting your hands on training, which I think is the 36 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,800 best way to do any type of learning in the trades. 37 00:01:58,800 --> 00:01:59,800 Right. 38 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:04,400 You get a combination of the actual classroom experience and the hands on. 39 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:09,200 So in that four year apprenticeship, I mean, so you start out the fundamentals and I'm 40 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,120 sure you're taking assessments along the way. 41 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,080 How much of that like hands on are you doing per week? 42 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,640 Like how much are you actually with the contractor after you do that like six months and then 43 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:22,480 after getting that initial training? 44 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,280 Tell us a little bit about that experience. 45 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:29,760 Well, the way it works is you have to find an employer who'll take you on and then you 46 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,360 get indentured as an apprentice and then you're working. 47 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,720 You have to do six months before you're eligible to go for schooling. 48 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,520 So you're full time every day for six months. 49 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,440 And that's like your first phase, they call it. 50 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:43,440 Right. 51 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,760 So like the first job I ever did, I mean, it was it was pure fluke. 52 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,800 I'd originally signed up for plumbing, but a friend of mine got the job because he had 53 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:50,800 a car and I didn't. 54 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:55,320 So I said, well, I'm going to the beach for a couple of weeks. 55 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,400 I'll see you when I get back. 56 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:03,960 So I went down to country where we have family and my uncle, I mean, he had ladders on the 57 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:04,960 roof of his van. 58 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:06,600 He had a couple of snowflake symbols on his van. 59 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:07,600 I didn't know what he did. 60 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,720 I know he worked every day. 61 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,040 So he said, you want to work? 62 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:13,320 I was like, OK. 63 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:18,560 So my first ever job was a 60 unit split install for a car dealership. 64 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,800 Oh, wow. 65 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:21,800 And then I was lucky. 66 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:22,800 He just said, you want to apprentice? 67 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,680 And I was like, sure, why not? 68 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,480 And then it kind of took off from there. 69 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,600 So like for like Ireland, so you have an actual certification. 70 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,800 So when you go through that apprenticeship, what does that look like when you get to the 71 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:35,800 end? 72 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:36,800 Are you taking assessments? 73 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,080 Are you proving your skill sets? 74 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:39,080 Yep. 75 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,720 So school is a mixture of theory and practical. 76 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:46,720 So they start off, you know, the absolute basics, like they talk about, you know, valence 77 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,520 electrons, you know, electric motor force and amps. 78 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:54,960 And then they build you into, say, simple series circuits and they'll put in, you know, 79 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:55,960 a resistance. 80 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:57,560 They'll give you basic homes. 81 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,080 They'll give you volts and ohms. 82 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,160 You'd figure out the amps, that kind of thing. 83 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:07,360 And then they will build you all the way up to at the very end, you're making out three 84 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,320 phase wiring diagrams by yourself and finding faults. 85 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:12,320 Nice. 86 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,280 And you're practical for the first run of school. 87 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,000 They give you, you have a little alcove and it's like, if you need a receptacle or a light, 88 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,000 you've got to wire it. 89 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,560 You have to do the diagram and prove it. 90 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,400 And your first project is an undercounter cooler and you change the compressor. 91 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:32,440 Your last project is a walk-in freezer that you have to fully pipe, wire and commission, 92 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:37,040 but you do your piping diagrams, your wiring diagrams. 93 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,280 They want ladders and they want pictorials. 94 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:43,600 You have to do everything before you can even turn anything on. 95 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:48,360 That's the thing that I wish we had more of here in the US and we keep pushing for this 96 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:53,960 whole theory of better HVAC where we're like really getting serious about our trade because 97 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,840 a lot of people don't realize that in many parts of the world, our trade is very advanced. 98 00:04:57,840 --> 00:05:02,040 I mean, talk about this apprenticeship where you're doing plumbing diagrams and electrical 99 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:03,040 schematics. 100 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,440 You're building all this out beforehand. 101 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:11,400 You have to understand the design and the installation and the service side of it as 102 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:12,400 we should. 103 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,000 Right? 104 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:15,180 Absolutely. 105 00:05:15,180 --> 00:05:18,560 We don't really have that here in the United States unless we get into things like formal 106 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:24,920 apprenticeship programs like at our UA and we do have that developing here in the United 107 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,240 States where we're looking at the true apprenticeship programs, but there's a lot of hesitance to 108 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,140 that and I wish we could get beyond that barrier. 109 00:05:32,140 --> 00:05:34,560 So you're in Manitoba now, is that correct? 110 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,160 Yes, in Winnipeg. 111 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:37,160 Okay. 112 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,660 So when you came from Ireland into Winnipeg, tell me about the differences when we get 113 00:05:41,660 --> 00:05:44,940 to like the Canadian style of apprenticeships. 114 00:05:44,940 --> 00:05:46,960 What do they look like for training? 115 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:51,480 Well, here refrigeration is what they call a compulsory trade in Manitoba and it can 116 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,760 be slightly different province to province. 117 00:05:54,760 --> 00:06:00,860 So it means you cannot touch refrigeration and air conditioning equipment legally unless 118 00:06:00,860 --> 00:06:04,120 you are either an apprentice or a journey person. 119 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:05,120 Oh, really? 120 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:09,360 So it's not just like here in the U.S. where you have your 608 and you can actually touch 121 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,400 and handle refrigerants and work on the refrigeration cycle of equipment. 122 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:18,760 You actually have to be enrolled in an apprenticeship program or completed. 123 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:25,760 Yeah, you have to be signed up and then you can work on equipment and they have here as 124 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:30,920 well like they have ozone depletion courses you do for safe handling of refrigerants. 125 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,840 So you have to do those as well. 126 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:39,960 And then you would have to same idea, it's four years, you do four school four times, 127 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:40,960 you have to do a mask. 128 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,880 I think it's around 1100, 1200 hours and then you're eligible. 129 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:50,440 You can go to school and you move on to your level two, your level three, your level four 130 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:55,480 and your level four you write your inter-provincial, your red seal exam to get your qualification. 131 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:56,760 No kidding. 132 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:57,760 Wow. 133 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,480 So it's really like completing a true four year training program. 134 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:06,240 Like here in the States we would think of a four year program as being like a bachelor's 135 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:07,360 degree. 136 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,520 But when we look at it from the trades, we don't ever really think about like if you 137 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:16,200 take a four year apprenticeship in the United States, you get done and it's like, okay, 138 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,000 I've done an apprenticeship program and hopefully I've ended up with like an associate's degree. 139 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,160 But when we look in places like in Canada and in Ireland, I mean, it really is the equivalent 140 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,200 of a four year college degree. 141 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,640 You're going through some pretty extensive training and certifications as well. 142 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,120 Oh, absolutely. 143 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,280 And it's very similar in the way, because I mean, the physics and the science are the 144 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:35,280 same country to country. 145 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:40,080 It's just laid out slightly different, but you're doing your commissioning sheets. 146 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:45,200 You know, they could do the same ladder diagrams and they do all those all the way up the series 147 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,520 parallel circuits till your last one when they actually dive into VFDs and capacitor 148 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,880 banks and all the different types of motors and part winding start. 149 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:58,080 Like they get really in depth and they just build your knowledge each time. 150 00:07:58,080 --> 00:07:59,080 Wow. 151 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:00,180 Yeah. 152 00:08:00,180 --> 00:08:04,640 So it helps us get the perspective that, I mean, here in the United States, we're actually 153 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,920 really behind the bar when it comes to the recognition and to the training and the apprenticeships 154 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,960 that our industry really needs to have. 155 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,080 And that was the big push they had here for Red Seal. 156 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:21,520 So when you can pass your inter-provincial exam, it's 125 questions. 157 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,520 It's 70 and above is a passing mark. 158 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:26,600 It's all multiple choice. 159 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,440 When you pass now, you can put the letters or S E Red Seal endorsed after your name, 160 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,440 just to bring some more legitimacy to it and make it stand out more. 161 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:36,440 Yeah. 162 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:37,440 Makes sense. 163 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:42,360 When we look at, say if you're like LinkedIn, someone who has a special certification, has 164 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:50,920 a degree, then it shows that you have accomplished that skill set. 165 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:51,920 And man. 166 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:52,920 Exactly. 167 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,000 It's recognition for your years of hard schooling. 168 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,640 And you're also working at the same time too, once you come out of school. 169 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:03,480 Because here it's nine weeks each time you go to school, except the nice thing they do 170 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:08,600 here since, I mean, refrigeration HVAC, you're working on gas fired equipment as well. 171 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:09,600 Yes. 172 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,880 So, I mean, you go to a rooftop unit. 173 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,240 If you don't get a ticket, you know, you could really, if you're looking at black and white, 174 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:16,600 you should only be looking at the air conditioning. 175 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,160 You shouldn't touch the heating. 176 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:24,920 So what they do here is each level of refrigeration, you do a week of gas and they credit you. 177 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,160 You're level one domestic gas fitter. 178 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,280 So then you go back when you're done your four years of refrigeration and you do a further 179 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,800 10 weeks and you can write your red seal for domestic gas fitter. 180 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:36,800 Oh yeah. 181 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:37,800 Absolutely. 182 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:38,800 It makes sense. 183 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:40,160 I mean, you'll only be working on a piece of equipment. 184 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,240 Say I've got a package unit that is air conditioning and it's heating. 185 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,880 Well, if I'm not properly trained in both of those, I can't work on both halves of that 186 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:48,880 piece of equipment. 187 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,800 I need to be able to understand the theory and I need to understand the design, the troubleshooting 188 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:57,120 of a gas fired appliance as well as a refrigeration cycle. 189 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,320 And they are very completely different functions. 190 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:00,320 Yeah. 191 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,040 And it's, it's very well done. 192 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,600 Like all the instructors have passed the red seal. 193 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,080 They've all worked in the field. 194 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:10,760 Um, they all know the code books inside out and you know, you do like for gas, you a lot 195 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:12,320 of venting gas pipe sizing. 196 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,360 Then you do troubleshooting and it's cool. 197 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,280 They got like troubleshooting furnaces so they can flick a dip switch and you have to 198 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:18,280 find a fault. 199 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:19,280 Yes. 200 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,520 Or they'll give you a boiler and be like, here's a blank diagram with the components. 201 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:24,520 Here's the boiler. 202 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:25,520 Figure it out. 203 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:26,520 Yeah. 204 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:32,480 You know, I think about the, uh, the competency of, you know, doing something like the red 205 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,080 seal looks like here in the United States, you know, yeah, if you've went through UA 206 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,080 apprenticeship and you've actually got your journeyman license, you validated, you've 207 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,640 went through all these four years of training certifications. 208 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:46,320 If you didn't take that path and you have worked your way up to the industry like myself, 209 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,960 I, so I did not take the union approach. 210 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,680 I was non-union and I went back for classes and I took classes when I needed to learn 211 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:56,360 something new, but I never actually ended up with a degree out of that. 212 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:01,560 I have a lot of classes, but I don't have any certificate to show it except for like 213 00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:05,160 my, my six Oh eight and my master electrician license. 214 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:10,160 So it's difficult to be able to go to other jurisdictions and show what you've accomplished 215 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,600 versus a true four year apprenticeship like you, you know, you took your apprenticeship 216 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,280 in Ireland. 217 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:20,960 When you came to Canada, how did they look at that for your apprenticeship that you did 218 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:25,920 in Ireland in comparison to what the expectations were in Canada? 219 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,320 They will recognize your hours because you have to have around 12 to 13,000 hours and 220 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,320 you can challenge the red seal, but the exams are laid out very different. 221 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:35,320 Okay. 222 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:36,320 Sure. 223 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,440 The Irish exam is more, they'll ask you a question. 224 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,100 You have to know the answer and they give you the formulas, but the Canadian exam is 225 00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:43,600 a lot more. 226 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,280 There's a question and it's for multiple choices and they'll move words around or they'll have 227 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,720 one that is a hundred percent wrong when that's very likely wrong. 228 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:57,240 And then the part that can catch you out is you have two answers, but one is more correct 229 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:58,240 than the other one. 230 00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:59,240 I get that. 231 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,740 You know, we, we can tend with that a lot here at ESCO, you know, when we're building 232 00:12:03,740 --> 00:12:10,020 assessments is, you know, there's a whole design to building multiple choice questions. 233 00:12:10,020 --> 00:12:17,720 So when you look at the United States, do you see any equivalency in the United States 234 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:22,800 as that are comparable to like the red seal and to your Irish apprenticeship? 235 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,360 I think from what I saw, just looking online, a lot of the union ones seemed to have really 236 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:28,360 good setups. 237 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,520 Like they've, you know, they've got racks and they've got E2 for energy management, 238 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,080 all in their training centers. 239 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:37,640 And where I'm working now, Rack Services, like it's an opco, the Iricom group, they've 240 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:43,280 got a great training setup down in California where they have a full actual, you know, grocery 241 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:48,880 store piped and wired and got racks and cases and they can do all the training in house 242 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:53,200 and they have all their own trainers, like really know their stuff. 243 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:54,200 Yeah. 244 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:55,360 And that's how I grew up in it. 245 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,160 So I was a grocery refrigeration technician. 246 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,600 So when you say E2, I'm like, yes, that's me. 247 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,560 I was a refrigeration HVAC and electrical management with E2s. 248 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:08,360 And it's very specialized and a lot of people in our industry don't even get to that point, 249 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,520 not recognizing that it is absolutely a thing that has to be learned in the industry when 250 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,360 you're getting into controls and automations and especially when you're getting into larger 251 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:18,360 refrigeration. 252 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,720 And it is difficult to find those trainings, I think here in the United States, there are 253 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:29,200 some, but they're not recognized and they're not set in an actual curriculum into an apprenticeship. 254 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:35,240 So that's one of the things we've been trying to promote here at ESCO and HVAC excellence 255 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:40,240 is that in the United States, we really need to start focusing on what that four-year apprenticeship 256 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,880 program would look like, especially for contractors. 257 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:49,960 We need to be able to elevate the proficiency here in the industry, not just in residential, 258 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,820 but in commercial and industrial applications so that we're getting the correct knowledge. 259 00:13:54,820 --> 00:13:58,840 Because it's one thing to be able to learn, to be able to work on specific equipment for 260 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,800 a specific contractor or for a specific facility. 261 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,920 But when we get out in the industry, it's not really that. 262 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,120 I mean, we're going to be working on a variety of different things, different designs, different 263 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:16,880 applications, and without having a broad education, you're going to be in some unknown territories 264 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:17,880 quite often. 265 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:18,880 Absolutely. 266 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:23,360 And I mean, when you're saying about the ESCO Institute too, like you'll find interesting, 267 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:28,160 the book we use every level to get us to the point of writing the Red Seal is Refrigeration 268 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,120 and Air Conditioning Technologies that Eugene Silverstein wrote. 269 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:32,120 Absolutely. 270 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:33,120 Yeah. 271 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:34,800 So the books and the education is there. 272 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,720 It's just like I said, you need to get it across the board and get it country and statewide 273 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:44,720 recognized and then people will find it easier to move around themselves as techs or be recognized. 274 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,880 Just make people's lives a lot easier and everyone's at the one standard. 275 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:48,880 Yeah. 276 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:53,280 Because I think about that from particularly our non-union contractors, which is a majority 277 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,240 of the United States. 278 00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:01,200 If a technician is moving across the country, United States, and they go to another contractor 279 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:06,720 and they're looking for a job, it's typically they're earning their merit based on experience, 280 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:07,720 right? 281 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,160 What the resume looks like, how many years of experience, but I always keep preaching, 282 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:18,320 well, how do you know that that 20 year in the field technician has been doing the right 283 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,880 thing for 20 years or they've been doing the wrong thing over and over and over for 20 284 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:22,880 years, right? 285 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:29,020 So you've got to be able to evaluate and you have to be able to know that that person has 286 00:15:29,020 --> 00:15:31,220 been continuing their education. 287 00:15:31,220 --> 00:15:37,040 So from an edgy, continuing educational stance for the red seal, are there requirements that 288 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:42,400 you continue education after you've acquired your red seal certification? 289 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:47,200 No, you don't have to let, yeah, there's nothing like Nate or hours you have to do to keep 290 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,000 your accreditation, but you can keep going back and doing more red seals if you wish 291 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,000 and doing more trades. 292 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,000 Sure, absolutely. 293 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,160 So it's not just like you get one certification and you're done. 294 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,400 You actually can go back and re-specialize in additional certifications. 295 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:04,000 Yeah, like now in Manitoba, there's a big surplus of electricians. 296 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,880 So there's a lot of electricians who are going back and doing four years and becoming refrigeration 297 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,840 techs, which is great because then they have the electrical and they have the refrigeration 298 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:12,840 side. 299 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:13,840 Exactly. 300 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:14,840 Yeah. 301 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,760 And that's what I'm hoping we end up attracting here in the United States. 302 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,960 You know, we're looking at around 130,000 technician shortage in the HVAC industry. 303 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,760 And we look at some of the other industries and go, well, hopefully we can attract other 304 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:25,760 people. 305 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:31,040 Hopefully we can start being, you know, recognized as a higher skilled job than what most people 306 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,520 realize that we really are. 307 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,160 Because, you know, when you start thinking about what we work on, you know, there's a 308 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,080 lot of critical environments that we work on. 309 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:43,400 We provide services that, you know, keep medicines alive. 310 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,960 We provide services that allow food to be transported over long distances. 311 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:53,540 We provide services that keeps the quality of air to a point where people can breathe. 312 00:16:53,540 --> 00:16:57,760 We have so many different aspects of our industry that are crucial, which we found, especially 313 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:02,880 during the COVID-19 pandemic, that we realized that, you know, we were declared essential 314 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:03,880 workers. 315 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:12,900 And so we really have this misperception in the United States of what our skill is. 316 00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:16,200 And it's nice to see that other countries have recognized that you really do need to 317 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,960 go through a formal training program and be recognized for your accomplishments along the 318 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:21,960 way. 319 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:22,960 Oh, absolutely. 320 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:28,160 And I think they need to push the people too, as it's not just a job and a career. 321 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:29,160 Like it's a lifestyle. 322 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:34,840 Like I've moved from, I went from Ireland to Vancouver, then I came from Vancouver to 323 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:35,840 Manitoba. 324 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,520 And like I've been driving on the ice roads and getting the service calls and driving 325 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,480 over frozen rivers in the middle of winter. 326 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:46,120 And, you know, I pull in the side of the road to make sure I got enough of everything. 327 00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:48,480 You know, bears popping out of trees beside me. 328 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,160 Like you're going to see and go places like... 329 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:52,160 It's amazing. 330 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:57,160 I had one Friday where I was fixing an ice cream machine and, you know, I was talking 331 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:58,160 to a lady while I was there. 332 00:17:58,160 --> 00:17:59,640 And then the next day I had the parts. 333 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,920 I'm like, you know, do I want to go back this late in the day? 334 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,000 And I'm like, well, maybe she'll be there and I'll talk to her. 335 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,000 And now we're married and have two kids. 336 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,000 Isn't it amazing? 337 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,280 And if I hadn't gone back that day, she wasn't working a day shift for six months. 338 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,280 So like the trades can really take you places if you, if you just invest in yourself and 339 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:16,280 just go for it. 340 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:17,280 Yeah. 341 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,600 That's what I always like to be able to point that out to new people who are looking at 342 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,320 our industry as, you know, potential career that, you know, take when you take that first 343 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:32,920 step into learning our industry, just be aware of all of the opportunities that there are. 344 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,080 It's not like you're just going to be working on residential air conditioners or residential 345 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:37,080 furnaces. 346 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:43,760 There's so many new opportunities and, you know, high end technology and places that 347 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:48,600 you'll go to that you've never dreamed as long as you push yourself, take those initiatives 348 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:55,080 to train and to get certified and be open to new experiences. 349 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,840 So let's think about from like the junior apprenticeship or, you know, going into the 350 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,720 trades net first year, what was it like in Ireland when you went in? 351 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:04,720 Was it nervous? 352 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:10,840 I mean, tell me what the atmosphere is like on that first year of learning. 353 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,800 Well you find out refrigeration is a trait because you'd no idea what it was before. 354 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,440 You just knew your fridge was cold. 355 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:17,440 Yeah, exactly. 356 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:18,440 It opens up your perception. 357 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:24,160 Yeah, you've no idea this is a thing and you know, you're so I'd say it's like, it's definitely 358 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,440 very daunting. 359 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,360 You know, you take a cover off a mini split and you want to make sure you're flaring a 360 00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:30,360 pipe right. 361 00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:31,800 And you're like, well, I can't even spell flaring yet. 362 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,800 So, you know, this should be interesting. 363 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:35,400 Exactly. 364 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:36,680 Definitely a lot of learning. 365 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:42,040 You know, you're being introduced to, okay, I got to get pipe from A to B. How do I do 366 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,040 it? 367 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,200 And they're like, well, go grab some rod, go grab some hangers and some cable tray. 368 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,680 And you're like, okay, what is all of that? 369 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:49,680 Right. 370 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:54,520 And then what can be daunting for people is like, I was lucky, you know, I had very good 371 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:55,520 journey people at the time. 372 00:19:55,520 --> 00:20:01,480 You know, I never had one who was, I came up and I was treated, you know, not great. 373 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,560 And I'm going to pass that on instead of breaking the cycle. 374 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:04,560 Like I was lucky. 375 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:09,240 Because things are explained and, you know, it's kind of show you once and let you run. 376 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:10,440 Yeah. 377 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,560 But there's definitely, because it's a smaller country and a smaller market, like, because 378 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,360 I never worked in Dublin in the capital much. 379 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:17,360 So I can't speak to that. 380 00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:19,460 It was more down the country. 381 00:20:19,460 --> 00:20:23,800 So I could be working on a beer line cooler, then you could be on a walk-in box and then 382 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,320 you could be fixing a soup hand blender in the afternoon. 383 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:27,720 Yeah, exactly. 384 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:32,120 So it's very, very broad, but the training is very good. 385 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:35,240 And the industry is definitely growing over there a lot, they're starting to do a lot 386 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:40,480 more trade shows and conferences and bring it on, kind of get like the AHR level. 387 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:41,480 Yes. 388 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:42,480 Yeah, absolutely. 389 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,720 But it is, it's definitely, yeah, very different. 390 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:50,280 Like here, you know, if you need something, you just run to the wholesaler in town, one 391 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,080 of the five or six that are there, right? 392 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:53,880 You don't have that option. 393 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:54,880 Yep. 394 00:20:54,880 --> 00:21:00,160 I find it very interesting when we start talking about, you know, our industry in different 395 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,760 countries and the similarities and the differences. 396 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:07,440 So this is really interesting to see the different side of, you know, the expectations. 397 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:13,280 I mean, think about that, a smaller country that has more requirements in training than 398 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,280 what we would have here in the United States. 399 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:20,640 And I think that says a lot about how much more we need to push our industry and progress 400 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,280 our industry to make it more appealing for the younger generations and to help break 401 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:31,760 that stigma, that it's not just a dirty career, that it is absolutely an opportunity to work 402 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:38,160 with your hands and to change the world around you and provide services to your community. 403 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,240 And it's a great place to be. 404 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:41,880 I've absolutely enjoyed my journey. 405 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:42,880 Oh, yeah. 406 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:47,440 Like you said, like I've been in so many, you know, crazy old buildings downtown and 407 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,560 crawl spaces under government buildings. 408 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:55,200 And like you really go and see some cool stuff or, you know, into the football stadium before 409 00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:00,080 it's open for opening day and you're you and two or three other people in there and you're 410 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,200 getting to see all the places no one gets to go. 411 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,360 Like you'll see some great stuff. 412 00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:05,360 Yeah. 413 00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:09,560 In my younger days, I had all the free ice cream and beer a young man could ever want. 414 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:10,560 Oh, exactly. 415 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:11,560 It lived a dream, right? 416 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:12,560 Well, it's there. 417 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:13,560 That's right. 418 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:14,560 All right. 419 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,200 Aidan, Lucy, I sure appreciate you hanging out with us, giving us perspective of what 420 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,360 training and apprenticeship looks like in Ireland as well as Canada. 421 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,280 I look forward to diving deeper into these conversations. 422 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:27,280 Thanks a lot, Chris. 423 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:54,280 Appreciate it.