Tales from the trenches, stories forged in the fires of experience.
This episode provided to you by Norman Van Johnson from the Atlanta Technical College.
Learn more about Atlanta Technical College at atlantatech.org.
All right, everyone, thank you for joining Did You Know?
The ESCO HVAC Podcast.
So I am hanging out with Norman Johnson, one of the top 25 educators.
How are you doing, sir?
I am doing well.
Thank you for asking.
How about yourself?
Man, I'm telling you what, I wish I would hit the record button like 20 minutes ago
when we first started talking.
So this is the first time Norman and I have actually had a chance to just sit and hang
out, you know, otherwise, like email and be messaging back and forth.
And man, I tell you what, I, man, I like you.
I like you too.
Man, that's like your stories is just like so, so impactful.
It's so much what I believe in.
And, you know, a lot of this stems from, you know, from the TrueTech tools, say competition,
but like recommendations, right?
You know, they're looking for people to nominate the top educators of the industry.
And you of course, one of the top 25 educators and we asked everyone to send in a video of,
you know, of you just kind of just saying, hey, hi, hi to the industry.
Man, you're just like, knock the socks out of everyone.
And I was like, man, that guy's got it going on.
He's got kids that just love what he's doing.
I mean, and so then when you and I sit and talk and they were like, okay, like, right,
you've got the passion.
Like you have like legit got the passion that, that I, I resonate with.
I mean, for me, there's so much to what this industry has to offer, but a lot of times
we don't always see what those things are.
Sometimes it takes a little, a little help.
And like, so one of the things that you talk about is like the, kind of the, the name of
this one is like figuring out your HVAC why, right?
Yeah.
So, so let's back up and we got to, we got to tell the world about this a little bit.
So let's just kind of set the stage of like, like what sparked you to get to this point
of your community?
Cause that's really what it comes down to is like helping people in your community find
that why in themselves.
And then just think about it for a little bit, search on it.
When I started helping people as far as just with my, just air conditioning abilities.
And like I tell my students today, I say, you know, there's no, there's no difference
between me and you.
I was not like a air conditioning Savan or anything.
You know, it's not like I just do this.
They were like, oh, you know, this stuff and it's easy.
It comes easy for you.
I was like, no, no, that's not, that's not how it happens.
The only difference between me and you is exposure.
You know, I've been exposed to it more times than you.
The only way, the only way a home run hitter can get a good average is getting up to the
plate.
Right.
You know, you don't get, you don't, your average doesn't change if you don't make the swings,
you know?
So as long, if you keep doing this, it's like a slot machine, you're investing in it and
it's eventually going to pay off.
I mean, I tell people with all kinds of problems, you know, from backgrounds to, you know, they've
had problems learning in school, you know, they don't feel like that they can do anything.
If you give it an opportunity, you know, it's gonna, it's gonna happen because this, the
hardest part about this industry is the people that you might have to come into contact with.
The air conditioning and heating systems, they're going to be the same, they're going
to be fundamentally the same.
So if you understand the fundamentals, you understand the equipment, you know?
So when I got into that and was able to express that to people and even before I started teaching
at a traditional school, because I was, I found myself teaching people on my job sites.
And like I said, I was on, I started doing air conditioning when I was 18 years old,
I enrolled at Atlanta Area Tech, that's what it was called back then, Atlanta Area Tech
in 1983 and finished in 85.
And when I finished in 85, you know, I went right out into the field and after a summer
and a winter, I felt comfortable because I pretty much looked at all the troubleshooting
systems for a heating and air conditioning system because I had done it all season.
And I seen so many guys doing things wrong or having issues with stuff where they really
shouldn't have had issues.
So I would say, look, this is how you would do it.
Now granted, I went back to the same company that I was the, I was a leasing consultant
for when I was 17 years old.
So you can imagine how people look.
So some people were good about it.
They were like, yeah, he knows something, but then those other guys who have been there
10 years, they were like, wait a minute now, the leasing consultant, y'all listen to him,
he just got out of school.
And it came with a lot of backlash.
So where in the beginning where I thought that I should have had like, where I should
have been like really happy, I really seen the backlash more.
You know, people were like, oh, you know, he's new out of school.
He doesn't know what he's talking about.
So it was a different types of thing.
So now I'm like, wait a minute, I think I'm doing this right.
I'm teaching these people, but some people aren't happy with my existence and helping.
But the ones who were happy about, cause I was taking grounds men and making them into
technicians.
I got promoted to a supervisor and all the people on the job quit because they were like,
wait a minute, I should have been supervisor before him.
You're 10 years.
Right.
Exactly.
So they quit.
And we used to back then hiring was a thing.
You know, you put in the Sunday paper and wait, you know, or you try to hire from different
properties that your company owns.
And I literally had to go out and hire two of my groundsmen.
They were about my age back then.
I think at that time I was like 23 years old.
They were, one of them was older than me.
I think he was 26 and he was a groundsman and the other one was like 18, you know, for
a summer job and he was a groundsman, but they were being groundsmen at other properties.
So since I couldn't hire anybody, since I couldn't find anybody, I went and asked them
did they want to become technicians and that I would help them get to that level.
And once the owner saw me train them to be technicians, next thing you know, I turned
into a pipeline of training and with no extra money, they would take the people away from
me who I would train and send them somewhere else and then send me some more people who
didn't know what they were doing.
I was like, wait, hold on.
I don't think this is supposed to be working.
But I was kind of like thrilled with it because they were giving me the opportunity to express
myself in training.
And then, you know, apartments kind of wore me out and I was like, it's time for me to
move on.
You know, I was like, you know, I've reached supervisor.
I've only been doing this three or four years, you know, and I'm the supervisor.
Instead of being a regional supervisor, you know, there was nothing but lateral movement
for me.
So I was like, I can't end my career here because I'm a progressive person.
I like doing stuff and like seeing it grow and grow and grow and grow.
So I mean, at that point, at the end of the apartments, you know, like I went into contracting
and subcontract.
You know, I had my own business and since I had my license that I got when I was 20,
I think 22, I was like 22 years old, got my warm air license, which is a big deal in Georgia.
You know, I got my warm air license and I was like, I need to apply this to, you know,
business.
And, you know, I like business, you know, but it has other things that aren't desirable.
I don't like the paperwork.
I don't even like the paperwork at school, you know, end of the semester work and things
like that, but I don't like paperwork.
So business was, you know, and wearing all the hats, it wasn't as fun as just doing it,
you know, but it had, you know, I was making money, you know, and that was the main thing
with me and my wife.
Like I said, we got married at a young age.
I was 24.
She was 20.
You know, we were, and she was in school, you know, working on her degrees at Georgia
State.
And, and she just encouraged me to like, just to keep pushing on and trying different, you
know, trying, trying different things.
And my mother and father, they were in, you know, my father, you know, he was an entertainer.
And like I said, he didn't do much of anything outside of entertainment.
And he was like fascinated, you know, you were like, oh, Reg, you know how to fix that.
Right.
You know, how you doing that?
You know, your own vehicle, where'd you get this from?
Exactly.
So he's always known that I like fixing on things, even though me and him were music
compadres, you know, anytime he was working on something in the studio and he would come
home, you know, he would be like, Hey, you need to listen to this.
And he was just as interested, you know, as my air conditioning stuff, you know, he would
ask me about, you know, even though he didn't know anything about it, my mother would ask
me about, you know, what's going on in air conditioning?
Oh, it's a hot summer.
You're doing really good this summer, right?
You know, and they would see me all grimy sometimes and crawl.
Where you been up under a house?
What was the reason you were in there?
Right.
So that was like from going from the why from just getting into HVAC, you know, it really
started changing after I got into the industry.
You know, then I started looking for just different things that wasn't the normal thing.
You know, I wanted to do something different.
And when I got the first opportunity to teach at interactive learning systems before I went
to Atlanta Tech, it was just interesting to be able to have a platform, a legitimate platform
where you did your lesson plans and you got a chance to do your stand up, you know, here
it goes, you know, is this thing on?
Hello?
Anybody out there?
You know, I got a chance to stand up in front of an audience, you know, and talk and see
to see if what I was saying would resonate with a whole group of people who didn't know
anything, most of them didn't know anything about air conditioning.
You know, so I'm taking them from the fundamentals of refrigeration to the fundamentals of electricity
and boom, they're getting jobs.
And I'm like, wow, this is, I love that part.
I love the part of even one of my students came in today and was like, hey, Johnson,
he's still in school, but he got hired.
You know, he got hired.
He's like, I'm about to switch to Knights, you know, I'm working for an air conditioning
company started me off with what I wanted.
You know, I'm gonna go out there and work for this, you know, for the summer.
I was like, that's fine and good.
I'm proud of you.
Just make sure you finish school, you know, because it'll turn into a rat race real fast
and you want to finish your goals and your goal was to finish, was to finish school so
that you can get that certificate.
So that if HR comes up and says that you need to be a graduate from a accredited technical
school, you won't have to come back and see me again, you know, 10 years later, you know?
So that's the only thing that, you know, that I, that I preach to them when they're out
there looking for jobs when they're in school and he's only in second semester.
He still has a whole nother semester to go.
And I mean, that's my biggest why.
My biggest why is I love hearing that success story.
I mean, just the last year, my son who lived, you know, I got two sons, my youngest son,
you know, he had some different opinions of what he wanted to do in life.
You know, I was like, that's fine, you know, because my wife tells me I have to let them
pick because she was like, you're a poster child for technical education.
You know, you had the opportunity to go to college and, you know, but I look at her family,
you know, they're all, they're all the greed down.
You know, like I said, her brother is a 10 year professor at one of the top business schools
in America, maybe even the world, you know, and he teaches also at Harvard.
And my wife has two master's degree and my father-in-law was an economics major and my
mother-in-law, she went to college, her, their whole family was just college.
So my wife was teaching at a college and so my kids could go there for free.
So I was like, no, no, you're going to college.
But my youngest son and he played in the band and everything.
I was like, you're going to get to see the whole world.
You know, you're going to go to Morehouse and be a maroon tiger.
Your brother's over at Morehouse.
He's almost finished and you're going to be in the marching band.
And he was like, I don't want to go.
I was like, what?
You know, I'm living through you, you know, going to all these different countries in
the band and you're talking about, you don't want to go.
Let me live it for a couple of years, kid.
This is free.
You don't have to watch you.
Exactly.
Yes, you're going or maybe and if not, why now granite?
Exactly.
Why granite?
Now, before he wanted, at first he wanted to be a chef and granted, I have pictures
of him cooking since he was nine years old.
So I was like, ah, you know, I'm going to let him be a chef.
So he enrolled in the school here with me for culinary arts.
Went through the process, got halfway through the program, got a job cooking and realized
he and still enjoy cooking, but not so much for other people.
Sure.
You know, standing on your feet.
Yes, chef, no chef.
But judge Ramsey, I mean, chef Ramsey attacking you and knocking your onions all over the
place.
Like, well, this may be not what I want to do.
So I encouraged him during the pandemic just to start riding with me on calls.
Right.
Because we were essential workers.
So I was able to go out on calls even when we weren't in school.
So he did that.
And when I started going back to school part time, I was like, instead of me having to
come home and get you, I want you to come to school with me.
And he started coming to school.
He said, this is how you guys do class in here.
You know, this is interesting.
And he took it.
And without any help from me, he's working in HVAC field now, working as an HVAC technician
at a Swinkle complex downtown.
And he's like five or six months in and he loves it.
To where my oldest son, who's graduate from a esteemed HBCU college, he's talking about
coming here in the fall to take air conditioning just because of what he's seen his brother
do when he goes out.
They would always go out and work with me.
But they never looked at it as a job.
But now, and like I said, they're like my biggest, my youngest son.
To have your son go through your program.
And the students in the beginning didn't even know he was my son because I didn't want to
make it feel that way.
I didn't want to make it feel like this is my son because then everybody, oh yeah, of
course he's going to do good.
Teacher's kid, coach's kid.
So I didn't really let on, but after a while they found out that he was my son and he went
through the same.
And I would always tell them, even though when my son said, well, I want to do air conditioning,
I said, you have to go to school.
I don't want to train you on a job because that's not what I'm doing on a job.
I'm trying to get finished.
I want to, you have to go to school and go through the process like everybody else.
And he did.
And that's just one of thousands of thousands of stories that I have of people's success.
I've taught people from all over the world, from Vietnamese students, Russian students,
German students, French students, students from Africa.
And I'm talking about when I say that, I'm not talking about they're here, they were
in these countries and then came, they're literally, this is their first interaction
with what's going on in the state of Georgia.
And then I see them, we went to one time, we went to a little street in Atlanta called
Beaufort highway, where a lot of the different foods are.
I've been there.
Exactly.
We were there eating some Vietnamese food and me and my wife, because we're real foodies,
we're down there eating food and this guy comes running out the back, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Johnson.
And he was in the back fixing his uncle's, his name was Tron Duck or something like that.
He was in the back fixing his uncle's freezer.
And next thing I know, the whole family's around me and my wife's table.
He was like, this is my daughter, this is paid for everything.
And they were all bowing and I was like, this is a little overwhelming.
But he took me outside, had his own van now, doing his own thing.
And that's the thing for me.
It's definitely the students.
I can't say that the school kept me here, but the students, you always have little growing
pains with your faculty, staff and stuff like that.
And sometimes it might rub you the wrong way, but for me, it's all about the students.
And I've had students, I had one student who was incarcerated, got out, had a bad outlook
on life.
Some days he would be attached, some days he wouldn't.
And I asked him, and I was like, what's going on with you?
He was like, nobody's going to hire me, I'm a felon.
I said, let's deal with that when you get to the end of the road.
Let's do good in school and then we'll figure it out once you finish.
And he figured out I helped him get a job on everything.
This man runs his own business now.
That's the beauty of it.
It's not- That's the beauty of it, to see somebody who's
totally down on themselves and then they don't have a lot of student debt.
They don't have to go back and say, well, I owe $40,000.
I got to start paying that back before I can even say I'm making any money.
Just their ability to come to a technical training.
And like I said, I see, especially on LinkedIn, I see a couple of guys who do some stuff with
some middle schoolers.
And I'm like, I wish I remembered his name, but I'm like, this guy, this is unbelievable.
I mean, he got him on ladders with torches.
I'm like, wow, in middle school.
And I'm like, this is interesting.
And now to see all these posts about comparing technical training with a four year degree
and just how it stacks up.
It's like, this is eye opening.
This should be eye opening for people.
My counselor didn't even want me to go to technical school because yo, you can do better
than that.
I'm like, wow.
I mean, I didn't think of it that much then as only it was only motivating.
I'm very competitive.
And when she was saying it wasn't going to work, I was like, yes, it is.
Now, granted, sometimes in my life, I was like, okay, she got me.
But that's with any job.
With any job, you have to, there's levels to it.
So it was just important for me, for my why.
And anytime that I think about it, I can think about different times in my life and that
why might equal something differently.
But when you bring in students, their whys are pretty much there.
I want to be able to do something so I can support my family, so I can contribute to
the bills.
And if that's all that you're looking for, that's fine.
But there's more to it than that.
Once you put yourself into it, it kind of guides you to where you want to go.
I used to always think everybody needed to be a licensed contractor.
I would always tell my students, that's our PhD.
You get that, that's the top level.
I want all of y'all to get it.
But I've had some students get into certain places and say, Johnson, I'm happy right here.
Right now I'm really content.
And if you're happy, then I'm happy for you.
My goal is for you to reach whatever goal you had in your mind when you came to this
school.
If it changes, that's one thing.
I would like to assist you in that, but it's very important for me to try to push you to
whatever your goal was.
I think that's the important part of all of it is to look at that why, that HVACY.
Why are you here?
Start the conversation.
What is your interest?
Because everything that you have an interest in is probably attainable in this industry.
You want to be appreciated.
You want to perform.
You want to sell.
You want to make lots of money.
You want to make a little bit of money and be comfortable.
You want to travel.
There's so many different aspects of our industry that people don't recognize.
And I think you've hit it on the nail.
It's a matter of asking the why.
Right?
Why is it right?
My wife reminded me about, she was like, the podcast, they're looking for people.
I was like, I want to do that.
So I signed up.
She was like, why don't you just call me?
I said, no, I'm going to sign up like everybody else.
He sees it, it'll go through, that'll be cool.
If they think it's cool and gave me a call right back, I was like, oh man.
So something else is working again.
Right, right.
And that's another one of my whys.
I like being progressive.
And I like using, especially when, like I said, I can't say enough about the HVAC Excellence
Convention and the motivation and just what spaces put me in right now.
Because at first I was like, you know, been doing this 30 years, just going to kind of
coast around for a while here.
But seeing so many other people doing and other people noticing things that I do, and
just different from Facebook or Instagram, it's a real good thing to watch people progress.
Yeah, I absolutely love it.
All right.
Norman Johnson, I sure appreciate you hanging out with me today.
I look forward to you and I getting to hang out sometime.
Yeah, you're in Indiana, right?
Yeah.
I'm in Georgia.
If I ever make it to Indiana, if you ever make it to Georgia, or...
Likewise.
I can be in Georgia.
I'll be looking you up.
Yeah, look me up.
You know, I take you around, show you some of the HVAC stuff.
You have good places to eat and good things to do.
All right, man.
I appreciate your time.
Thank you, man.
I really appreciate it.
I'll see you later.