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Tales from the trenches, stories forged in the fires of experience.

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This episode provided to you by Norman Van Johnson from the Atlanta Technical College.

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Learn more about Atlanta Technical College at atlantatech.org.

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All right, everyone, thank you for joining Did You Know?

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The ESCO HVAC Podcast.

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So I am hanging out with Norman Johnson, one of the top 25 educators.

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How are you doing, sir?

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I am doing well.

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Thank you for asking.

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How about yourself?

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Man, I'm telling you what, I wish I would hit the record button like 20 minutes ago

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when we first started talking.

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So this is the first time Norman and I have actually had a chance to just sit and hang

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out, you know, otherwise, like email and be messaging back and forth.

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And man, I tell you what, I, man, I like you.

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I like you too.

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Man, that's like your stories is just like so, so impactful.

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It's so much what I believe in.

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And, you know, a lot of this stems from, you know, from the TrueTech tools, say competition,

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but like recommendations, right?

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You know, they're looking for people to nominate the top educators of the industry.

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And you of course, one of the top 25 educators and we asked everyone to send in a video of,

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you know, of you just kind of just saying, hey, hi, hi to the industry.

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Man, you're just like, knock the socks out of everyone.

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And I was like, man, that guy's got it going on.

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He's got kids that just love what he's doing.

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I mean, and so then when you and I sit and talk and they were like, okay, like, right,

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you've got the passion.

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Like you have like legit got the passion that, that I, I resonate with.

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I mean, for me, there's so much to what this industry has to offer, but a lot of times

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we don't always see what those things are.

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Sometimes it takes a little, a little help.

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And like, so one of the things that you talk about is like the, kind of the, the name of

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this one is like figuring out your HVAC why, right?

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Yeah.

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So, so let's back up and we got to, we got to tell the world about this a little bit.

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So let's just kind of set the stage of like, like what sparked you to get to this point

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of your community?

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Cause that's really what it comes down to is like helping people in your community find

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that why in themselves.

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And then just think about it for a little bit, search on it.

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When I started helping people as far as just with my, just air conditioning abilities.

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And like I tell my students today, I say, you know, there's no, there's no difference

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between me and you.

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I was not like a air conditioning Savan or anything.

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You know, it's not like I just do this.

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They were like, oh, you know, this stuff and it's easy.

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It comes easy for you.

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I was like, no, no, that's not, that's not how it happens.

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The only difference between me and you is exposure.

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You know, I've been exposed to it more times than you.

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The only way, the only way a home run hitter can get a good average is getting up to the

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plate.

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Right.

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You know, you don't get, you don't, your average doesn't change if you don't make the swings,

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you know?

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So as long, if you keep doing this, it's like a slot machine, you're investing in it and

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it's eventually going to pay off.

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I mean, I tell people with all kinds of problems, you know, from backgrounds to, you know, they've

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had problems learning in school, you know, they don't feel like that they can do anything.

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If you give it an opportunity, you know, it's gonna, it's gonna happen because this, the

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hardest part about this industry is the people that you might have to come into contact with.

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The air conditioning and heating systems, they're going to be the same, they're going

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to be fundamentally the same.

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So if you understand the fundamentals, you understand the equipment, you know?

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So when I got into that and was able to express that to people and even before I started teaching

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at a traditional school, because I was, I found myself teaching people on my job sites.

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And like I said, I was on, I started doing air conditioning when I was 18 years old,

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I enrolled at Atlanta Area Tech, that's what it was called back then, Atlanta Area Tech

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in 1983 and finished in 85.

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And when I finished in 85, you know, I went right out into the field and after a summer

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and a winter, I felt comfortable because I pretty much looked at all the troubleshooting

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systems for a heating and air conditioning system because I had done it all season.

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And I seen so many guys doing things wrong or having issues with stuff where they really

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shouldn't have had issues.

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So I would say, look, this is how you would do it.

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Now granted, I went back to the same company that I was the, I was a leasing consultant

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for when I was 17 years old.

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So you can imagine how people look.

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So some people were good about it.

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They were like, yeah, he knows something, but then those other guys who have been there

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10 years, they were like, wait a minute now, the leasing consultant, y'all listen to him,

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he just got out of school.

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And it came with a lot of backlash.

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So where in the beginning where I thought that I should have had like, where I should

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have been like really happy, I really seen the backlash more.

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You know, people were like, oh, you know, he's new out of school.

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He doesn't know what he's talking about.

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So it was a different types of thing.

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So now I'm like, wait a minute, I think I'm doing this right.

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I'm teaching these people, but some people aren't happy with my existence and helping.

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But the ones who were happy about, cause I was taking grounds men and making them into

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technicians.

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I got promoted to a supervisor and all the people on the job quit because they were like,

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wait a minute, I should have been supervisor before him.

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You're 10 years.

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Right.

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Exactly.

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So they quit.

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And we used to back then hiring was a thing.

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You know, you put in the Sunday paper and wait, you know, or you try to hire from different

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properties that your company owns.

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And I literally had to go out and hire two of my groundsmen.

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They were about my age back then.

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I think at that time I was like 23 years old.

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They were, one of them was older than me.

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I think he was 26 and he was a groundsman and the other one was like 18, you know, for

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a summer job and he was a groundsman, but they were being groundsmen at other properties.

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So since I couldn't hire anybody, since I couldn't find anybody, I went and asked them

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did they want to become technicians and that I would help them get to that level.

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And once the owner saw me train them to be technicians, next thing you know, I turned

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into a pipeline of training and with no extra money, they would take the people away from

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me who I would train and send them somewhere else and then send me some more people who

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didn't know what they were doing.

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I was like, wait, hold on.

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I don't think this is supposed to be working.

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But I was kind of like thrilled with it because they were giving me the opportunity to express

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myself in training.

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And then, you know, apartments kind of wore me out and I was like, it's time for me to

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move on.

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You know, I was like, you know, I've reached supervisor.

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I've only been doing this three or four years, you know, and I'm the supervisor.

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Instead of being a regional supervisor, you know, there was nothing but lateral movement

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for me.

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So I was like, I can't end my career here because I'm a progressive person.

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I like doing stuff and like seeing it grow and grow and grow and grow.

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So I mean, at that point, at the end of the apartments, you know, like I went into contracting

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and subcontract.

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You know, I had my own business and since I had my license that I got when I was 20,

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I think 22, I was like 22 years old, got my warm air license, which is a big deal in Georgia.

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You know, I got my warm air license and I was like, I need to apply this to, you know,

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business.

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And, you know, I like business, you know, but it has other things that aren't desirable.

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I don't like the paperwork.

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I don't even like the paperwork at school, you know, end of the semester work and things

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like that, but I don't like paperwork.

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So business was, you know, and wearing all the hats, it wasn't as fun as just doing it,

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you know, but it had, you know, I was making money, you know, and that was the main thing

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with me and my wife.

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Like I said, we got married at a young age.

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I was 24.

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She was 20.

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You know, we were, and she was in school, you know, working on her degrees at Georgia

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State.

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And, and she just encouraged me to like, just to keep pushing on and trying different, you

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know, trying, trying different things.

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And my mother and father, they were in, you know, my father, you know, he was an entertainer.

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And like I said, he didn't do much of anything outside of entertainment.

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And he was like fascinated, you know, you were like, oh, Reg, you know how to fix that.

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Right.

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You know, how you doing that?

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You know, your own vehicle, where'd you get this from?

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Exactly.

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So he's always known that I like fixing on things, even though me and him were music

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compadres, you know, anytime he was working on something in the studio and he would come

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home, you know, he would be like, Hey, you need to listen to this.

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And he was just as interested, you know, as my air conditioning stuff, you know, he would

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ask me about, you know, even though he didn't know anything about it, my mother would ask

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me about, you know, what's going on in air conditioning?

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Oh, it's a hot summer.

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You're doing really good this summer, right?

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You know, and they would see me all grimy sometimes and crawl.

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Where you been up under a house?

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What was the reason you were in there?

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Right.

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So that was like from going from the why from just getting into HVAC, you know, it really

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started changing after I got into the industry.

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You know, then I started looking for just different things that wasn't the normal thing.

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You know, I wanted to do something different.

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And when I got the first opportunity to teach at interactive learning systems before I went

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to Atlanta Tech, it was just interesting to be able to have a platform, a legitimate platform

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where you did your lesson plans and you got a chance to do your stand up, you know, here

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it goes, you know, is this thing on?

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Hello?

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Anybody out there?

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You know, I got a chance to stand up in front of an audience, you know, and talk and see

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to see if what I was saying would resonate with a whole group of people who didn't know

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anything, most of them didn't know anything about air conditioning.

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You know, so I'm taking them from the fundamentals of refrigeration to the fundamentals of electricity

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and boom, they're getting jobs.

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And I'm like, wow, this is, I love that part.

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I love the part of even one of my students came in today and was like, hey, Johnson,

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he's still in school, but he got hired.

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You know, he got hired.

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He's like, I'm about to switch to Knights, you know, I'm working for an air conditioning

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company started me off with what I wanted.

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You know, I'm gonna go out there and work for this, you know, for the summer.

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I was like, that's fine and good.

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I'm proud of you.

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Just make sure you finish school, you know, because it'll turn into a rat race real fast

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and you want to finish your goals and your goal was to finish, was to finish school so

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that you can get that certificate.

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So that if HR comes up and says that you need to be a graduate from a accredited technical

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school, you won't have to come back and see me again, you know, 10 years later, you know?

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So that's the only thing that, you know, that I, that I preach to them when they're out

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there looking for jobs when they're in school and he's only in second semester.

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He still has a whole nother semester to go.

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And I mean, that's my biggest why.

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My biggest why is I love hearing that success story.

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I mean, just the last year, my son who lived, you know, I got two sons, my youngest son,

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you know, he had some different opinions of what he wanted to do in life.

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You know, I was like, that's fine, you know, because my wife tells me I have to let them

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pick because she was like, you're a poster child for technical education.

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You know, you had the opportunity to go to college and, you know, but I look at her family,

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you know, they're all, they're all the greed down.

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You know, like I said, her brother is a 10 year professor at one of the top business schools

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in America, maybe even the world, you know, and he teaches also at Harvard.

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And my wife has two master's degree and my father-in-law was an economics major and my

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mother-in-law, she went to college, her, their whole family was just college.

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So my wife was teaching at a college and so my kids could go there for free.

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So I was like, no, no, you're going to college.

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But my youngest son and he played in the band and everything.

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I was like, you're going to get to see the whole world.

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You know, you're going to go to Morehouse and be a maroon tiger.

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Your brother's over at Morehouse.

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He's almost finished and you're going to be in the marching band.

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And he was like, I don't want to go.

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I was like, what?

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You know, I'm living through you, you know, going to all these different countries in

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the band and you're talking about, you don't want to go.

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Let me live it for a couple of years, kid.

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This is free.

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You don't have to watch you.

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Exactly.

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Yes, you're going or maybe and if not, why now granite?

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Exactly.

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Why granite?

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Now, before he wanted, at first he wanted to be a chef and granted, I have pictures

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of him cooking since he was nine years old.

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So I was like, ah, you know, I'm going to let him be a chef.

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So he enrolled in the school here with me for culinary arts.

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Went through the process, got halfway through the program, got a job cooking and realized

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he and still enjoy cooking, but not so much for other people.

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Sure.

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You know, standing on your feet.

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Yes, chef, no chef.

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But judge Ramsey, I mean, chef Ramsey attacking you and knocking your onions all over the

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place.

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Like, well, this may be not what I want to do.

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So I encouraged him during the pandemic just to start riding with me on calls.

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Right.

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Because we were essential workers.

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So I was able to go out on calls even when we weren't in school.

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So he did that.

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And when I started going back to school part time, I was like, instead of me having to

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come home and get you, I want you to come to school with me.

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And he started coming to school.

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He said, this is how you guys do class in here.

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You know, this is interesting.

250
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And he took it.

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And without any help from me, he's working in HVAC field now, working as an HVAC technician

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at a Swinkle complex downtown.

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And he's like five or six months in and he loves it.

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To where my oldest son, who's graduate from a esteemed HBCU college, he's talking about

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coming here in the fall to take air conditioning just because of what he's seen his brother

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do when he goes out.

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They would always go out and work with me.

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But they never looked at it as a job.

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But now, and like I said, they're like my biggest, my youngest son.

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To have your son go through your program.

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And the students in the beginning didn't even know he was my son because I didn't want to

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make it feel that way.

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I didn't want to make it feel like this is my son because then everybody, oh yeah, of

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course he's going to do good.

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Teacher's kid, coach's kid.

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So I didn't really let on, but after a while they found out that he was my son and he went

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through the same.

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And I would always tell them, even though when my son said, well, I want to do air conditioning,

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I said, you have to go to school.

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I don't want to train you on a job because that's not what I'm doing on a job.

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I'm trying to get finished.

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I want to, you have to go to school and go through the process like everybody else.

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And he did.

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And that's just one of thousands of thousands of stories that I have of people's success.

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I've taught people from all over the world, from Vietnamese students, Russian students,

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German students, French students, students from Africa.

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And I'm talking about when I say that, I'm not talking about they're here, they were

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in these countries and then came, they're literally, this is their first interaction

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with what's going on in the state of Georgia.

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And then I see them, we went to one time, we went to a little street in Atlanta called

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Beaufort highway, where a lot of the different foods are.

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I've been there.

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Exactly.

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We were there eating some Vietnamese food and me and my wife, because we're real foodies,

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we're down there eating food and this guy comes running out the back, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Johnson.

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And he was in the back fixing his uncle's, his name was Tron Duck or something like that.

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He was in the back fixing his uncle's freezer.

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And next thing I know, the whole family's around me and my wife's table.

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He was like, this is my daughter, this is paid for everything.

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And they were all bowing and I was like, this is a little overwhelming.

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But he took me outside, had his own van now, doing his own thing.

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And that's the thing for me.

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It's definitely the students.

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I can't say that the school kept me here, but the students, you always have little growing

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pains with your faculty, staff and stuff like that.

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And sometimes it might rub you the wrong way, but for me, it's all about the students.

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And I've had students, I had one student who was incarcerated, got out, had a bad outlook

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on life.

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Some days he would be attached, some days he wouldn't.

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And I asked him, and I was like, what's going on with you?

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He was like, nobody's going to hire me, I'm a felon.

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I said, let's deal with that when you get to the end of the road.

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Let's do good in school and then we'll figure it out once you finish.

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And he figured out I helped him get a job on everything.

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This man runs his own business now.

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That's the beauty of it.

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It's not- That's the beauty of it, to see somebody who's

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totally down on themselves and then they don't have a lot of student debt.

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They don't have to go back and say, well, I owe $40,000.

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I got to start paying that back before I can even say I'm making any money.

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Just their ability to come to a technical training.

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And like I said, I see, especially on LinkedIn, I see a couple of guys who do some stuff with

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some middle schoolers.

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And I'm like, I wish I remembered his name, but I'm like, this guy, this is unbelievable.

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I mean, he got him on ladders with torches.

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I'm like, wow, in middle school.

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And I'm like, this is interesting.

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And now to see all these posts about comparing technical training with a four year degree

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and just how it stacks up.

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It's like, this is eye opening.

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This should be eye opening for people.

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My counselor didn't even want me to go to technical school because yo, you can do better

323
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than that.

324
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I'm like, wow.

325
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I mean, I didn't think of it that much then as only it was only motivating.

326
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I'm very competitive.

327
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And when she was saying it wasn't going to work, I was like, yes, it is.

328
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Now, granted, sometimes in my life, I was like, okay, she got me.

329
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But that's with any job.

330
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With any job, you have to, there's levels to it.

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So it was just important for me, for my why.

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And anytime that I think about it, I can think about different times in my life and that

333
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:43,440
why might equal something differently.

334
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:49,280
But when you bring in students, their whys are pretty much there.

335
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I want to be able to do something so I can support my family, so I can contribute to

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the bills.

337
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:04,240
And if that's all that you're looking for, that's fine.

338
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,640
But there's more to it than that.

339
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Once you put yourself into it, it kind of guides you to where you want to go.

340
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,840
I used to always think everybody needed to be a licensed contractor.

341
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I would always tell my students, that's our PhD.

342
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You get that, that's the top level.

343
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I want all of y'all to get it.

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But I've had some students get into certain places and say, Johnson, I'm happy right here.

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Right now I'm really content.

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And if you're happy, then I'm happy for you.

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My goal is for you to reach whatever goal you had in your mind when you came to this

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school.

349
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If it changes, that's one thing.

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I would like to assist you in that, but it's very important for me to try to push you to

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whatever your goal was.

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00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:08,840
I think that's the important part of all of it is to look at that why, that HVACY.

353
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Why are you here?

354
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Start the conversation.

355
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What is your interest?

356
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Because everything that you have an interest in is probably attainable in this industry.

357
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:19,960
You want to be appreciated.

358
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You want to perform.

359
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,040
You want to sell.

360
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:24,040
You want to make lots of money.

361
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,840
You want to make a little bit of money and be comfortable.

362
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You want to travel.

363
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,040
There's so many different aspects of our industry that people don't recognize.

364
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,000
And I think you've hit it on the nail.

365
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It's a matter of asking the why.

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Right?

367
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:37,960
Why is it right?

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00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:44,840
My wife reminded me about, she was like, the podcast, they're looking for people.

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I was like, I want to do that.

370
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So I signed up.

371
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She was like, why don't you just call me?

372
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I said, no, I'm going to sign up like everybody else.

373
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He sees it, it'll go through, that'll be cool.

374
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:04,960
If they think it's cool and gave me a call right back, I was like, oh man.

375
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,560
So something else is working again.

376
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,560
Right, right.

377
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,800
And that's another one of my whys.

378
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,760
I like being progressive.

379
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:25,120
And I like using, especially when, like I said, I can't say enough about the HVAC Excellence

380
00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:32,880
Convention and the motivation and just what spaces put me in right now.

381
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,680
Because at first I was like, you know, been doing this 30 years, just going to kind of

382
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,620
coast around for a while here.

383
00:24:40,620 --> 00:24:46,840
But seeing so many other people doing and other people noticing things that I do, and

384
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:56,600
just different from Facebook or Instagram, it's a real good thing to watch people progress.

385
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,400
Yeah, I absolutely love it.

386
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:00,400
All right.

387
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,440
Norman Johnson, I sure appreciate you hanging out with me today.

388
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,120
I look forward to you and I getting to hang out sometime.

389
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:07,120
Yeah, you're in Indiana, right?

390
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:08,120
Yeah.

391
00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:09,120
I'm in Georgia.

392
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:13,160
If I ever make it to Indiana, if you ever make it to Georgia, or...

393
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:14,160
Likewise.

394
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:15,160
I can be in Georgia.

395
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,160
I'll be looking you up.

396
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:17,160
Yeah, look me up.

397
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,160
You know, I take you around, show you some of the HVAC stuff.

398
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,320
You have good places to eat and good things to do.

399
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:24,320
All right, man.

400
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:25,320
I appreciate your time.

401
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:26,320
Thank you, man.

402
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:27,320
I really appreciate it.

403
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:34,320
I'll see you later.