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Soften your senses, ways to become a better speaker, listener and follower.

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This episode brought to you by Roger Daviston and the Daviston Group, changing results by

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changing the behavior.

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Learn more at rogerdaviston.com.

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All right, everyone, thank you for joining us once again on Did You Know?

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The Esco HVAC Podcast.

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So today we're hanging out with Roger Daviston.

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Roger, how are you, sir?

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I'm doing really well.

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Thank you for having me.

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Roger is a author of a couple different books, The Service Call Blueprint and Passing the

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Baton and has a very catchy work phrase of change the behavior, change the results.

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And I see you doing a lot of education on this mentality and you were at our conference

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this year.

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You had a great turnout for that and I think it's very important for us to talk about that

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transition when especially a lot of us as technicians move into educators.

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There's a lot to learn and one aspect that is never really taught to us is boundaries

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and leadership.

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I think it's a very important thing for us to talk about and this is something that's

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a passion of yours.

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So let's dive a little bit into this and see if we can help some people that are transitioning

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into their education roles or into their business ownership and leadership roles to have a little

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better understanding of actually communication skills is kind of what it comes down to.

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It does.

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And I appreciate your introduction.

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It is a passion, but it's more than a passion.

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It's something that I had to change in my life.

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And I was a boundary-less person as a kid and as a young adult and in business that

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didn't work very well.

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I had a lot of problems in my personal relationships and in my business relationships because I

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didn't know how to tell people no.

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And it caused a lot of issues.

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So this is something that I had to grow in.

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I grew myself personally.

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And interestingly, I wrote the service called Blueprint.

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It's a process, field-tested strategies, how to run a service call.

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And if people follow the process, technicians, they do much better.

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Customers are satisfied.

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We do a better job.

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Average tickets go up two and three times.

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And I would notice that some cultures I would go in, the service called Blueprint process

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worked really fine.

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And then another culture I would go in and I'd tell them the same thing and it wouldn't

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work.

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And I have a mentor.

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His name is Dr. Michael Seaman.

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And he's a counseling psychologist.

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He does marriage and family therapy.

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And he's the person that influenced me in this area.

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Studied a lot of other people too since then.

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But I began to...

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He's my mentor.

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I said, you know, I got these issues in these cultures.

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What's going on?

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And it all boiled down to boundary-less cultures.

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And that's what I talked about in Las Vegas was boundaries for leadership.

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And there's a lot of toxicity that can be in a system.

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A company is a system of relationships.

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And relationships don't work very well if you don't have good boundaries.

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And so, you know, people come from their family system and they bring toxicity from that family

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system into the company system.

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And the culture can be worse than the family.

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And what I learned is that, of course, we all know this idiom.

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We know this idiom, the apple doesn't fall far from the apple tree.

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So if we can get the leadership, the owner, to grow, the culture changes and grows and

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becomes healthy.

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Absolutely.

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It all starts with the top of the hierarchy and trickles its way through.

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It does.

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It does.

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Absolutely.

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Correct.

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So what are some ways that we can at least step back and take a look at our own leadership

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design and ways to be able to analyze, you know, what am I doing right?

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What am I doing wrong?

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What do I need some help in?

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That is a great question.

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I like to answer that question this way.

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If you own a business, you're going to get a combination of two things.

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You're going to get a combination of what you built, what you wanted, and then you're

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going to get another combination of things that you allowed that you really don't want.

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So if you're an owner and you look at your business and there are things in your company

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culture that you don't like and you don't want, you've got to ask yourself a question.

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Why are they there?

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And the answer to the question is, is because you allowed them to be there.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So boundaries define four things.

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Who you are, who you are not, that's number one.

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What you're willing to do, what you're not willing to do, that's number two.

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Number three is what you are responsible for and what you're not responsible for.

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And number four is what you own and what you do not own.

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So boundaries defines really the screaming message in boundaries is responsibility and

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ownership.

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And what you'll find in the business culture is a lot of people don't own anything and

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aren't responsible for anything and things don't get done because we have not created

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clarity in the system as to who owns what, who's responsible for what, what we're willing

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to do, what we're not willing to do, and then really company identity.

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Who are we?

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What do we do?

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And, you know, strong sense of this is who we are, this is what we do.

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So just to give you an example, my company identity when I had my heating and air conditioning

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business was we were really just a, how do I say this, a direct selling company.

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We just happened to sell heating and air conditioning.

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What we really did is we were really good at the sales process.

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And so a boundary is an expectation that I had for the salespeople and the expectation

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was you will be proactive.

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This is what I expect.

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And then I held them accountable.

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I'm not going to allow you not to do that.

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So one day, you know, we have this executive function meeting.

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We had them every day so their brains would work.

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I had to help them with boundaries with their brain because we've got to work as one big

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brain.

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And so in this short meeting every day, I say, okay, Justin, how many doors did you

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knock on yesterday?

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And I would get a really long story and I'd listen with empathy and compassion.

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And after he finished, I say, that really sounds hard, but tell me how many was that?

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Because I just need a number.

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So what I'm doing is inhibiting his excuse making.

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Right.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I'm inhibiting his learned helplessness.

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I'm inhibiting his victim mentality.

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And so he's, you know, after five minutes of excuses and stories, I said, Justin Madison,

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the number, how many was it?

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And he said, well, I didn't knock on any doors yesterday.

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I said, okay, is that a zero?

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Yeah, that's a zero.

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And then I would hold him accountable and I'd say, hey, Justin, can you fix this today?

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Yes, I can fix it today.

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But if I didn't do that every day and I was gone on vacation for seven days or 10 days,

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that part of my business fell apart.

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Because people need to be, a good leader has to help the system's brains work properly,

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use executive functions, which we got to attend to what's important.

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We got to inhibit things that we need to inhibit so we don't get attention deficit disorder.

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And we have to do it frequently.

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So we build our memory.

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Those are three things in executive function that attend, inhibit and build our working

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memory.

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And a really strong culture that's really good at what they do, the leader creates those

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boundaries for the system to work as one brain.

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You can have a system with a lot of really smart people, but they're not attending the

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same thing.

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So it's like Apple computer company when they were not very successful.

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I'm sure they had a bunch of smart people there.

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Just not one together.

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But you got to have all these smart people got to attend to what's important.

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So we do these kinds of meetings in a service department for 15 minutes every day.

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There's a high level functioning meeting that we do with the owner and other high level

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people in the company.

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We got to know how much revenue was budgeted for yesterday.

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How much revenue did we do yesterday?

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How much revenue have we done month to date?

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Where's the variance?

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Okay.

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We see all this.

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What's wrong?

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We've had a change.

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How are we going to fix this?

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Maybe we don't need to fix anything.

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Maybe the numbers are great.

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But if you'll attend to what is important and inhibit what isn't and do it every day,

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the system gets better fast.

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Hmm.

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Yeah, that's very intriguing because it's easy to get off track and it's easy not to

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be focused on those things that can negatively impact the entire structure of your organization.

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Allow me to give you another example just from this morning.

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So I led an executive functions meeting this morning with some technicians from two different

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companies and we do this on Zoom.

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One technician is the way you do this, okay, somebody had a success, tell me your success

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story.

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We've got a technician telling his success story and he's giving details and while he's

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speaking the other technicians are learning.

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I'm not doing anything.

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This is attending to what's important.

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He's talking about process, what he did, challenges, how he overcame it.

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So basically the service call was a no air conditioning call and the technician left

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there with a $30,000 sale for two systems.

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That's a really great call.

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And so I asked the weak technician, do you have any questions?

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This is what you got to do.

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He needs to have a lot of questions because he's there.

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His mentor's in front of him.

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Right.

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And here's what he said.

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Well, I just don't get those kinds of opportunities.

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I just get these opportunities, da da da da da.

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And what he's doing is he's making excuses and being a victim.

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So we had to stop right there and inhibit, hang on just a second.

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Let's think through this.

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Let's don't wish that things would change for you.

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Let's don't wish your circumstances would change.

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Let's wish that you would get better.

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Because we can't do anything about your circumstances.

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So in that particular example, we've got to inhibit excuse making.

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Hmm.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I actually just had this conversation with one of my own mentors last night about setting

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personal boundaries pretty much for this exact same scenario.

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We often will have positive and negative events in our life, and in all actuality, it's things

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that we have allowed through our boundaries.

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Yeah, you said no to them.

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Exactly.

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And I hadn't thought about it from that perspective before, and I had to sit back for a minute

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and think about my own personal boundaries.

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So there are things that I've allowed through my own personal boundaries by not saying no

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that have had negative consequences, and it's understanding what those boundaries are and

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how to manage those.

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That's right.

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That's a bit of a challenge.

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It's very difficult.

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When you're not used to saying no, when you start saying no to people, they're not going

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to like you.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And they're going to gaslight you, and they're going to blame you, and they're going to be

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victim and you're the reason I'm this way.

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I can't believe you did this to me.

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I can't believe you.

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Because a lot of times, no is a really hard word.

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No represents disappointment.

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No represents rejection for some people.

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Some people think no means you don't love me, and no means none of those words.

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No is just the way that I protect myself.

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No is just a complete sentence.

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It's just a boundary word.

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No, I don't want to do that, or no, I'm not going to do that, or no, I'm not going to

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allow that, or no, we're not going to do that.

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But I guess the first place that I grew was learning how to hear no.

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Just listening to it and perceiving it?

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Got to be able to accept no.

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You got to learn how to hear and accept no as an answer.

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Because if I hear no, I'm going to be disappointed.

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I might feel rejection.

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I might feel like you don't love me, but I got to deal with that.

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That's my problem.

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That's one thing about boundaries.

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They're emotional boundaries.

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My disappointment is my disappointment.

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I need to own that.

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My boredom is my boredom.

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I need to own that, and I need to respond to that in a healthy manner.

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So when you hear the first place we grow as people is hear no as an answer.

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Persevere through the no.

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Understand that it didn't kill us.

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And when we get to the other side of the no, we've built a little bit of character.

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I was just sitting there thinking about the name of this podcast.

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And I think hearing no as an answer.

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Because that's a difficult thing, especially, and I don't want to stereotype, but I would

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say that especially for men, no is not an easy answer to accept.

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Tell me no.

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Tell me why.

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Tell me more about that.

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I don't know.

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I'm trying to study and learn that myself.

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I think many times, I think as a man, you try to understand leadership roles and you

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try to be a leader.

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And I think sometimes if you hear no, you hear that as almost like a defensive mechanism

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or is a noncompliance.

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Well, in the context of business, it can be, but let's talk about the context.

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So I believe that every one of us has the right and the responsibility to say no.

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We have the right and the responsibility to say no.

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And really without explaining our no and without feeling guilty.

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No just means no.

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It's just a complete sentence.

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However, in the context of business, there's an authority figure in the system.

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And the authority figure in the system asks you to do something.

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If you don't want to do it, you really need to assert yourself and say, no, I really don't

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want to do that.

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But you need to explain yourself there.

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The why.

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Yeah.

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You need to explain yourself to the authority figure.

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An authority figure has a responsibility to listen.

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And the way that you listen is to let go of your agenda and humble yourself.

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So a good leader will humble themselves, let go of their agenda and really listen to the

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person.

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But the authority figure has the final say.

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But the authority figure also has responsibility to really listen because we need to listen

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and understand the people.

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People need to feel heard so they'll feel understood.

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And that builds for lots of trust in a system of relationships.

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Now just because you were listened to and heard and understood doesn't mean you're going

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to get your way.

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Okay.

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And this happens in cultures.

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You're not going to get your way every time.

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So you've got to humble yourself, go out of the meeting in unity with everybody else in

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the system because unity must be more important than being correct.

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I completely understand that.

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Yeah.

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Unity is where we get the prosperity.

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It comes from unity being unified.

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I mean, you and I and three other people could have a problem and we could have five solutions.

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We can only pick one.

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True.

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And they may all five be good.

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So it doesn't really matter how you get to the solution or how you solve the problem

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or how you get to the outcomes.

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Not near as important as getting there.

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The only time for me it's important to really question how we get there is if it violates

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some of my values.

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You start pushing on my values and I get real obstinate.

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I ain't going to do it.

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That's just the way I'm wired.

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Yeah.

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I think I'm kind of wired that way too.

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But I'll be honest with you and say, you know, I can't do that.

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And here's why I can't do it.

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It goes against my values.

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These are my values and that's, you know, I can't want you.

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And that's another good rule about boundaries.

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When you do something that you don't want to do and you do it reluctantly and it violates

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boundaries makes you feel guilt and shame and all this other crazy, terrible emotions.

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That's a bad thing for you personally.

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You need to shut that door because when you let the bad in, boundaries have gates, doors

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and they're designed to let the good in, keep the bad out.

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So if you open that door and let that bad in, that's not good.

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Yeah, I completely get that.

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Okay.

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So it's understanding what those boundaries are, setting them, being aware of them.

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And then also when we utilize those boundaries, having a response as to why.

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Like if my response is no, what is the reasoning behind that?

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Well you can explain your reason, but like, I mean, I've had situations in my personal

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life where my explanation was not necessary in none of their business.

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True, true.

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Personally.

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Absolutely.

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But in a business context, if you've got somebody in authority that wants you to do something,

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you probably need to explain this is why I really don't want to do that.

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Let's talk through this.

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And I think you might have responsibility to the people in your system that are below

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you in authority to explain this is why I don't want to do that and this is why I want

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to do it this way.

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I think in that context it's very beneficial and needed.

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You can't just, no, not going to do that.

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Yeah, completely.

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All right.

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So I know you do a lot of business coaching for our audience.

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What are good ways to connect with Roger Davison to learn more about building a productive

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team inside of a business?

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Go to my website.

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It's rogerdaviston.com.

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D-A-V-I-S-T-O-N.

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There's tons of stuff to read, tons of stuff to watch.

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There's a place on the right hand corner pops up.

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You want to grab a time to talk to me.

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You can.

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If not, my phone number is there.

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Send me a text message.

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I'm really busy.

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I don't have any spots for about three weeks.

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That's a good problem.

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It is a good problem.

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I'm working a little harder than I want, but that doesn't mean I can't help you.

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It just means that I'll have to figure out where to work you in.

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I get that.

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All right.

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rogerdaviston.com.

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We thank you, sir, for joining us today.

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Thank you.

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I appreciate it.

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Thank you.