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Soften your senses.

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Ways to become a better speaker, listener and follower.

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This episode brought to you by Haven IAQ, your home's ultimate clean air solution for

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active air management.

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Learn more at HavenIAQ.com.

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All right, everyone.

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Thank you so much for joining Did You Know?

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The Esco HVAC Podcast.

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Once again, we're hanging out at the National HVACR Education Conference, and I am spending

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some time with my new good friend, Kevin Hart.

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How are you, sir?

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I'm good.

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Thanks for having me.

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And this is, by the way, Kevin Hart, the Canadian, not the comedian.

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That's right, not the comedian.

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Not to be confused.

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Yeah.

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And this is my first Esco show, and it's been fantastic.

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Isn't it a lot of fun?

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Yeah.

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And it's packed, yeah.

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It is packed to the hilt, and we are just absolutely ecstatic with the amount of people

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that are here just trying to improve their self, to have a better understanding of the

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environment around them, and to learn what it takes to be better in the role that they

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have.

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So we have educators that are here.

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We have contractors that are here.

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We have distributors.

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We have manufacturers.

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We have a presence of contractor trainers and distributor trainers that we don't typically

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get.

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And so for me, what it signifies is that our industry is very aware of the transitions

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that we're making in technologies, the innovations we're making in equipment.

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I mean, you yourself, you're right at the forefront of IAQ and understanding how technology

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can make our lives better, right?

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Yeah.

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So we can't be afraid of all of these transitions.

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And that's what this conference is, is reflecting to me personally, is that an industry is aware

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of the surroundings, and they're doing what it takes to move forward.

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And sometimes it's difficult.

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Sometimes there's a little work in making ourselves better, right?

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Yeah, I've been in this industry for 10 years.

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So not a long time, but I feel that there's so much change happening, and it's accelerating

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in the A2L and all this new changes that I do see.

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I don't know if it's opportunistic or if it's out of necessity, but I do see a lot of people

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starting to engage in like, oh, we probably should keep up with all these changes because

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they will impact our business.

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Yeah, it's to the point to where I've had, I had one interesting conversation.

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I had one educator come over to me and we were talking about A2L training, because that's

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one of the things we're promoting right now, getting everyone prepared for the A2L transition.

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And an educator come to me and he said, I gotta have the A2L training from ESCO.

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I'm like, okay, that's great.

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He's like, no, you don't understand.

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Like I gotta have it.

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I need to leave here with it because my administration came to our department and said we had 30

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days to get A2L certified or we didn't have a job.

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Wow.

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I was like, all right, you need A2L training.

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Wow.

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Crazy.

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Yeah, it is really crazy.

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So there's all of these different dynamics and we're going to see transitions.

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We're going to see rules and regulations at a federal level that is fantastic.

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But we are also seeing local jurisdictions and states that are going above and beyond

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that.

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And we're seeing opportunities for us to push the industry into a place that's needed for

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a long time, where we have a better understanding of our environment.

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We work harder at the professional development and we start becoming the industry that you're

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super proud of.

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I'm very, very proud of my industry.

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But if we can conquer all these transitions and come out on the other side being very

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advanced, then think about how much better we're serving the people around us.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I want to say I'm really proud of the industry.

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I love the industry.

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I love the people in the industry.

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And it makes me sad that I look at like other professions, you know, software developer,

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lawyer, doctor, and there's such highly regarded professions in society.

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And I look at the lack of young people getting into the trade.

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And it makes me a little bit sad because this trade is really cool.

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Like, it's highly technical.

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It's also very hands on.

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It's like, it's a lot of really cool things.

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And I used to be an electrician and I sort of capped out after the first four years and

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we're like, there's not a whole lot more to learn.

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There's so much breadth and depth to this industry.

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And I just hope to see this industry continue to evolve into the type of industry that attracts

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more people who want to do good work.

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Yes.

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Yep.

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I think part of that issue is that we have, we've kind of lacked in the certification

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side of our industry and the professional development.

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And there was a period of time in our industry where we didn't have a lot of change.

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We went decades without having a whole lot of change.

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And unfortunately in that we didn't push forward.

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We didn't dive into what should be standard practices.

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We actually called a lot of things best practices and they really should just be standard practices.

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And going into some of these new refrigerants and new technologies, we're going to be required

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to do things that in the past was kind of considered best practice, right?

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It wasn't always required.

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So we have an opportunity to become an industry that's actually very advanced and highly technical

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and highly demanded from the consumers, which means anyone who takes advantage of that opportunity

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and elevates themselves, gets comfortable with new technologies, gets certified to work

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on products and actually becomes a very credible technician and contractor, there is a lot

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of opportunity.

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I agree.

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Actually, it was funny.

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I was just talking to Craig Migliaccio from AC Service Tech and he was talking about how

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his books that some people in the industry and even manufacturers have regarded his books

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as like the gold standard.

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And then he told me, you know, I kind of developed this for high school students, which is just

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kind of funny.

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It is when you think about it.

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And they are amazing books and the process and the amount of detail that they go through.

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But I think, yeah, we need to have the elevation across the whole industry and in particular,

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like I focus more on the indoor air quality side of the industry, where a lot of what

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we've been seeing is these solutions getting pushed that don't necessarily come from anything.

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They don't come from a need.

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They're not diagnosed.

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They're not measured.

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Just sort of like, well, the homeowner asked for it.

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I'm going to throw this thing at them.

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I don't really understand the fundamentals of indoor air quality.

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I don't understand the science.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And so that's kind of where I came into the industry and was like, okay, this needs to

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be improved.

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Yes.

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Because there's actual harm being done to consumers, to homeowners.

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And I think part of this is homeowner education.

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Absolutely.

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But I've just been seeing this trend now that I've stepped outside of just indoor air quality,

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starting to look at the rest of the industry.

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It's like, oh, well, this is there's a similar story in different areas of the industry.

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Yeah.

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I completely agree.

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I've spent a lot of time in residential service.

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I've spent some time in residential construction and installation.

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I spent a lot of time in commercial refrigeration.

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And when I step back and I look at it and I go, you know, all of those had things that

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were fairly advanced.

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And there were a time where we didn't have the educational tools that we have today.

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And so today's learning obstacles are much less than they were in the past.

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Yes, we have a lot of stuff to learn.

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But we have tools and technologies that can advance that very quickly.

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And so then we have to start looking at as an industry, we want to make sure that people

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that invest in their self to do better at the things that they are working on and working

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with are recognized for that.

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And that consumers as well can validate that they can look for those validated resources.

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And I hope that we all take advantage of the opportunity to go, you know what?

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We are like at this pivotal moment where we can elevate an industry, we can start being

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received at a higher caliber, which typically comes with higher pay.

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So we can elevate the worth that we should be actually investing into ourselves and into

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what we do.

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So we're starting to see some, I would say movement within the industry.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And actually, just in the past few weeks, I've seen popular YouTubers who have millions of

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viewers talking about like, why would you do a load calc?

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You know, why?

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How come most HVAC systems are oversized?

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They're actually starting to bring awareness to the general public.

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And I think that's something we need to do more of is educate homeowners that they're

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asking for these things.

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You know, and then another thing you said about technology, I think it used to be like,

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technology, no, we don't need that.

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Like we're good.

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Yeah.

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You know, the status quo, you know, but in the move to be better, I think there has been

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more of an acceptance that, okay, technology is going to be part of the strategy.

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I think we're still arguing on the tactics.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Right?

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Like a lot of people, there's debates right now, like, well, I want to get paid to open

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up this tool.

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I paid a lot for this tool and I'm not going to perform this test for free.

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Exactly.

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I know other people that are more of the camp of like, well, I'm specifically going to use

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this tool because it doesn't take a long time because it's technology and they've simplified

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it made it easy and they spit out a report and I'm going to use this as differentiation

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yes to be better so that I can actually give the customer what they need because I just

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don't accept selling things that people don't need that are size wrong.

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And all you know, I decided not to do static pressure testing, airflow testing because

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the homeowner wouldn't pay me to do it.

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So I definitely see debate and there's valid points on either side of the argument.

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But I think we've gotten to the point where we both agree that these tools are needed

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to be better at what we do.

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Yeah, 100%.

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100%.

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So when we start talking about getting past these stigmas of change, getting past the

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stigmas of innovations and technologies and refrigerants that we're uncomfortable with,

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and we start moving in the direction of, okay, we know that we have all of these new technologies

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and it's going to be more important than ever to install, commission and service these pieces

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of equipment because there's a lot of changes happening.

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We are very quickly shifting from a single stage to stage environment into an inverter

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driven environment.

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We're going to be working with a lot more technology even with your refrigerant detection

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sensors and our A2L residential split systems and light commercial equipment.

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So we have a lot of opportunity to focus in on these technologies and go to the proper

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training for them.

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And also in that, make sure that we're retaining the knowledge from the trainings and actually

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paying some attention to certifications.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Actually, and I listened to your podcast with Ben Reed and you talked a lot about very specifically

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like is the information being retained and that is something you can test for and ESCO

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is actually able to help certify.

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That's what we do.

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We focused all of these years, decades of making sure that we have these tools available

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for educators to be able to, all right, if I'm an educator and I'm teaching something

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and I have students that are learning this, I need to make sure that one, I'm delivering

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the content properly and two, that the students are retaining that information, they're learning

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it.

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So when doing certifications along the way, you take that data, you're all about data,

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right?

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Data is the only way we can actually validate what our inputs are and our outputs.

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So we have to measure things.

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We have to quantify what we're working with.

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So when we use certifications that actually use that data and put it into databases so

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that we can break those down and see our deficiencies, then it becomes a tool for ourselves.

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I don't want to take a test and be compared to the rest of the world to see how good or

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bad I was.

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I want to take a test so that I know the things that need improved.

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And that's really what it's about.

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It's about doing certifications, which are really more about self-certification of yourself,

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evaluating who you are, and then being recognized for the accomplishments of that.

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And so as our industry progresses, I really encourage everyone to start spending more

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time focusing on the certifications that are available to you in ways to make those available

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to consumers in particularly who are looking for those specific services, those specific

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quantities and qualities of people.

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So in that conversation with Ben, we dove into the movement that is starting to develop

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called Better HVAC, right?

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So when we talk about Better HVAC, we're really just talking about better practices for the

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HVAC industry and for ourselves.

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And so how are you involved and how are you seeing things develop like that?

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Yeah, so there was probably a fairly substantial group of people who wanted to see change and

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formed what we're now calling Better HVAC.

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And I think you were part of one of those early meetings.

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And I'd still think we're in this forming stage of what exactly we are, what we're going

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to do.

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But I think in general, we could just call it, hey, it's a mindset.

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Whatever this future state is that you and I are talking about right now that we want

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to get to that all these people are here to learn and to stay on top of things.

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But also moreover, that we want homeowners to start asking for better services.

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Yes, 100%.

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And because they ask for it, we'll be able to charge for it.

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And yeah, maybe ticket sizes will go up, but homeowners will be comfortable.

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They'll actually get the value of their investment.

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You know, and just generally, okay, we want to see this future where the industry is better,

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better practices are being done, education is being delivered.

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And there's people who want to get into the industry.

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Homeowners are asking for these things like that.

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That is the future state we want to get to.

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And so we're calling it Better HVAC.

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And how we get there, there's clearly organizations that are helping work towards that.

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And ESCO is definitely a big one of those.

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There's other ones.

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There's a lot of work that HVAC school is doing and they have their symposium and there's

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work that NCI are doing and there's work.

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There's a lot of people.

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ACC's, AIA, and there's so many organizations that are contributing.

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Yes, exactly.

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But I guess the thing that was missing, because we don't want to do something like again,

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I think this is about how do we collaborate to accelerate change, transformation?

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Really, that's what it's about.

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It's like, what is the gap that we can fill that's going to catalyze this change to happen

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quicker?

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And one of the things we can think of is let's take all of these groups that are already

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doing great work and just make them more easily accessible, discoverable, and push and bring

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awareness to those groups doing good work already.

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That's what it's all about.

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We keep saying that there's no one organization that can do it all, but all of us can do it

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together.

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Yeah.

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And that's really what I feel is happening.

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And even in this conference, I mean, you're already starting to hear people coming out

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of classes and you can see the energy, you can feel the energy, and you know that everyone

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is striving to be better.

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Whatever you're doing, they're striving to come to a common place where they can elevate

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themselves.

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They can elevate standards.

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They can elevate the services that they're providing.

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And I highly encourage everyone to start thinking about that.

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What could you do to be a little bit better than what you're doing today?

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And think about that.

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If I can do things, if I can go to trainings, if I can improve what I am doing today and

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I can tomorrow step back and go, wow, look how much better I am today.

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And in 30 days down the road, you're like, and you do that consecutively, right?

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30 days down the road, you're like, I am so much more proficient and efficient than I

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was in the past.

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And this is what it's about.

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It's about taking minds and sparking a little bit of curiosity.

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I had a really good conversation on one of the earlier podcasts on a completely separate

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topic, but we both came to the same conclusion that generationally, I think Gen Z and now

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we're starting to see Alpha are growing up with concepts about change and not challenging

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standards but just asking that they be evaluated to see if we can improve things, if we can

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do things better.

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And so now even us older generations like X, we're actually looking at going, you know

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what?

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We have been doing the same thing over and over and over.

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And is it correct?

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Because the world has changed around us.

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Our equipment has changed.

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Our practices have changed.

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The tools and techniques could have actually changed.

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And so is it time for us to step back and go, hmm, what can I do to make things better?

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Yeah.

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And I think people want to belong to something and know that there's other people out there

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who think like them, be able to find each other, be able to find these resources.

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And I think like a lot of this is about training the trainers.

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And while the trainers are out there, and I think even just like you on this podcast,

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you meet people where you're talking and you go, oh, this person also cares about making

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the industry better.

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Better A-Fac is something that we both kind of belong to whether we know it or not.

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Exactly.

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It's not an association.

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You know, I wonder.

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I just had an epiphany.

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I was speaking to an, I won't call him an older, I'll call him an experienced educator

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earlier.

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And he said, are you hunting the juice?

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And I'm like, the juice, tell me about the juice.

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He's like, you know, the juice.

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That's why you do what you do.

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And I went, oh, is the juice what we're all talking about?

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When we talk about Better H-Fac, we're all wanting that same thing.

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We're all wanting to make a difference.

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You know, in really kind of in reality, I find that most people that are involved in

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the service industry have servant hearts.

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So it's like we're all in the business to do things for other people to make their lives

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better.

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Well, look, we're essential workers here, right?

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Like the economy got shut down.

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We're like, well, we still need air conditioning and heating, right?

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Like it's such an essential service.

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Absolutely.

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I mean, even on the, I mean, there's safety, there's health, there's comfort, there's efficiency.

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And these things like in different rankings matter to different people, but they matter

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enormously because we're talking about homes in a lot of cases where we spend a lot of

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our life and raise our children.

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And I mean, to be comfortable, to be efficient in terms of what we're spending every month

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to have that, but also to make sure that we're safe and we're healthy.

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I mean, these are important, critical things.

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This isn't like I was in the airport and some of the family inside of me, they were all

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wearing like, they had just come from a Pokemon tournament.

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They look like professional Pokemon players.

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And I was like, that's cool.

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But like, I'm going to sit back here and be like, we do something really like critical

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and essential and important.

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And there's something to that.

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Yeah.

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You know, Howard Weiss made this really cool thumbnail for a social post that we did a

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few months back and it was, are you an HVAC superhero?

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And it was really about, yes, you are an HVAC superhero, whether you realize it or not.

357
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Yeah.

358
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Yeah.

359
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And so it's like, we're all part of something so special and we're all finally talking about

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it.

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It's such a roller coaster because some days it's like, oh my God, look at this group that

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just got, you know, I don't know, consolidated.

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Now they've put in these bad sales practices and they're taking older homeowners for a

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ride through rental, like whatever it is, like you can wake up one day and be totally

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demotivated and then the next day, like have a great conversation like we're having and

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be totally inspiring.

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Yeah.

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And you realize, oh yeah, this is what we do.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Oh, that's such an important topic.

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And so I really want everyone to be thinking about how to make yourself better in ways

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to do that.

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And I want you to know that there are resources out there.

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There are people that have you back.

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There's an entire community that is gathering and growing.

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00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:10,360
And we would like for you to be better at HVAC.

378
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:11,360
Yeah.

379
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BetterHVAC.com.

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You can read the declaration, sign the pledge, become a champion.

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There's a map.

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There's I think close to 200 members.

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I mean, we just got going this year.

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So I think, yeah, we're onto something.

385
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,880
Kevin Hart, the Canadian.

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00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:26,880
Clifton.

387
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,880
I appreciate you, my friend.

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Thank you for having me.