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Welcome back to Teaching the Unteachables, where we dive into teaching and learning

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methodologies for professionals like you. This episode brought to you by

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Highside Chemicals, manufacturing the highest quality chemical products for the

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HVACR and plumbing industries. Learn more at HighsideChem.com.

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Alright everyone, thank you so much for joining us. We're hanging out with

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Fallon Dyle from Highside Chemicals. How are you today? I'm good, how are you doing?

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I'm having a wonderful time. It has been so exciting, so interesting, learning

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from different educators, from so many different technologies and refrigerants,

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and we've got a topic that is starting to become very, very commonly talked about

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and uncommonly understood. Alright, so let's dive a little deeper

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into, because it's got all sorts of names, which is very interesting. Let's talk about

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the slime that we're starting to see in air conditioning systems, particularly

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in like Florida, but other places in the south as well. Southeast. And also tropical, so

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this isn't just US based. Think about any country, anywhere that's almost kind of a

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peninsula or island that has high humidity. They're gonna end up having

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these same issues too. Okay, alright, alright. So we've seen people

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treating it different ways, right, using different chemicals. Highside Chemicals

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has really taken the scientific approach to this, right? Yes, because you have to.

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Yeah, alright, so let's talk about that. Let's get, I love the science behind

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things, right? I geek out on figuring out how things actually work, right? And

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that's what we're doing. Absolutely, you have to conceptualize this to really fight

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it. You have to know what it is. You have to know what it is. Yes. Alright, so let's

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dive deep. Tell me where we started. So basically I had actually gotten to the

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position that I'm in now, which is R&D Chemists for Highside, and I saw a

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lot of videos about people talking about this slime stuff. So I got in

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contact with a technician in Florida, and he basically sent me slime samples that

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we then extracted the DNA from, and then found out what it was. And once we found

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out what it was, we found that this stuff is actually very fascinating, and that we

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also found out that it's been here a lot longer than we have, and it's evolved

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over thousands and thousands of years to basically survive. Just like anything,

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like a human, we're surviving on a planet, so are these. Right. And we found out

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that they were just biofilms. So there's seven different biofilms that are all

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cohabitating together. In a community? Pretty much, so none of them are fighting

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for space. None of them are basically, you know, taking over the other or

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anything like that. They're just fine chilling in the drain pan. You know,

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they're not fighting for anything. So it's, but then diving deeper into it, we

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found out why they're able to even survive in these conditions, and it's

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because they were actually a part of why our trees grow, why the grass

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grows. It protects plants during extreme droughts. So a lot of them are UV

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resistant. Right. They're antibiotic resistant, detergent resistant, and it's

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because one day somebody put some detergent on one and probably killed it,

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and then it came back stronger. So that's what it's doing, so they'll evolve over

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time. Right, right. But we also did find that one of them, it's r-indiosa, and that

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biofilm is actually already linking to nosocomial infections in hospitals. So,

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and it also has genome plasticity. I know that's kind of a scary word, but basically

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I'm a technician, be careful there. But this actually allows it to evolve very

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quickly too. So this one was actually discovered in 2003 in that particular

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form that it is right now, but you got to think that's almost 21 years. So it

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could have already evolved into something else at this point. And see,

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that's another thing, the product that we came out with, it's not going to kill it,

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so that will also help. It's only creating a non-conducive environment for

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it to want to spread. See, if you go and try and kill it, that's when the

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evolution comes. But if you just respect it, which we have to, because without

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these biofilms we wouldn't be here. Interesting. So we have to maintain that

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respect with the planet that we live on, because that's what it is. Yeah,

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absolutely. And you know, we're starting to spend a lot of time understanding our

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impact to the world that we live in. Yeah. You know, we have done a lot of

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devastation to our planet, and we're starting to finally step back and go,

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all right, let's look at things. Yeah. Let's evaluate things. Let's see what we

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can do to better understand and to, in this case, better condition. We're not

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destroying, we're actually kind of conditioning the environment that it

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lives in. Because I've heard of technicians going, hey, I use this

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product, it was successful for a while, and then it came back. Yeah, and that's

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what's gonna happen, because you can't kill this stuff. There's really nothing

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that you could really do to kill it. And so that's kind of what it is. You're

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gonna, you're basically creating an environment, and then once that washes

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away, then that environment's gonna become more. So for instance, the product

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we developed, which is called Biofilm Remover, we've had it tested, we

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started seeing growth after eight months. So it exceeds any other product that's

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out there, and it's also specifically designed for this, you know, scientifically,

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if you want to get down to it. So I'm from the Midwest. I didn't really start

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hearing about this until reading it on technician forums here in the last year

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or two. Yes. So when did we really start noticing this particular scenario? So

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basically, like I said, when I did the lecture, a lot of people, you know, one of

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them was founded in 1942. So we have a concept, okay, all of these are very old.

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Why are we seeing it now? Yes. And it's because after 2020, manufacturers started

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changing to aluminum coils. So copper is antimicrobial. Oh my goodness, absolutely.

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Aluminum is not. So that's why we're starting to see an influx now, because all

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these new systems are coming. Oh my goodness. And it could be starting, because you got to

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think at the end of the day, these are all soil bacteria. Right. So they're

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coming in at the bottom of your shoe. So think of a huge manufacturing facility

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that has thousands of workers coming in there every day. This is starting from

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the very beginning. And just the moment that system's set up and that water

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starts, it's exploding. It's perfect conditions for bacteria. And then

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you got technicians that just because they're uneducated, they didn't know

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about it. But a lot of people are using bleach. I know. That's your home, you know,

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that's the big thing. Everybody knows the household name. That's the cleaner in the

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house. But nobody knows that it's sodium hypochlorite and that it's extremely

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corrosive to metal. Exactly. So you should not have it in an HVAC system at

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all. Bleach does not actually do what it says it does. It only bleaches the top. So

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it only makes it look nice. It doesn't actually go down to the root of, say, mold.

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Yeah. And it also is extremely dangerous vapors. So if you have a technician, so my

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big thing from when I was speaking earlier was technicians HVAC, bleach

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should not be an HVAC at all. It has no purpose here because it doesn't do

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anything it would do for someone in the field anyway and a drop of it gets on a

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piece of metal and then that just corroded. And then the biggest thing, the

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biggest takeaway is the dangerous vapors. So if you have a technician that's using

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bleach every day for 30 years, they're gonna have problems breathing in that

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vapor. The inhalation of it. Yes. So that really needs to change. So it's an

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educational. So you're here educating us on the chemistry of things. Yes. Yes. I

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just want everybody to be safe. Yeah. That's really the big thing. Alright. So

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let's talk about proper treatment of it, right? So I'm a technician. I'm a

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contractor. I have this environment and some of the videos that I watch are

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pretty crazy. Yeah. This growth can get pretty significant. Yeah. And they're

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very strong. Yeah. I mean it's very hard to even break them apart. Yeah. Absolutely.

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So what is an actual process for treating it? Walk me through what I

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should do to properly treat my scenario. Okay. So I guess it would be different

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situations depending. So my biggest thing that I've told everybody is prepare.

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Yeah. So if you are about to set up a new system and you and it's made of

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aluminum, you need to immediately, the moment that you open it up out of the

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box, you need to clean it. Okay. And not just with water. You need to use a type. I

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would use anything at all. A lot of these are pH resistance. So super

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acidic is not going to hurt it. Detergent resistant. So that's what I'm saying.

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They're really hard to deal with. But I would definitely use a product, any type

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of cool cleaner, anything. The moment you get it out of the box, clean it. And then

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also you can go even further to now if everything's gonna end up being aluminum

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and they're not gonna switch, then let's go, let's start as far as the design.

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Let's not do floor returns. If you got a new house, let's do a higher return, a

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wall return, ceiling return or something. That way you're not digging up the ground. Yeah.

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And then, so after that, then you got to find a treatment that works for you. So

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this is something that's not going away. This is something that you cannot kill

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and just eradicate. So you're gonna have to treat it. It's never gonna go away and

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you have to have a product. So ours is a very thick gel. Okay. And you spray it in

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the drain pan and pull it through the drain line and basically that water is

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gonna rush through it every day and it's slowly gonna wash away. So that's another

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thing that you have to kind of keep in mind. We have to maintain this. There is

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no getting rid of it. Okay. So how often are we going to be treating a typical, a

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common drain in the southeast? So right now that pretty much they've had new

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systems set up within two weeks or haven't clogged. And then every two weeks

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it's happening. So like I said, our product has been tested in the field for

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over a year and we got eight months before we started seeing regrowth. And

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that's because the product finally took enough gallons of water and it washed

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away. Yeah. So we're trying now that, and this isn't our only thing, this is a

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series that we started. We went ahead and got this product out now to help manage

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it. But we're definitely working to, I would like to do something to where, you

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know, it would, you would never have to bother with it. But we're gonna slowly at

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least try to do, you know, additions to kind of help the gel and make it last

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longer. We're trying to get to at least the normal PM of a year if we can. That's

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the goal. Yeah. Yeah. And then the biggest thing is just educating your customer.

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You know, letting them know that you know what's going on. That way they don't

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think that you don't know what you're doing. Have an idea. Exactly. Because a

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lot of contractors and stuff in Florida are losing contracts because they can't

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answer the questions. So then someone's like, well I'm gonna call somebody else.

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And then that guy comes out and he doesn't know either. Yeah. Until a few

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weeks later back into the same scenario. Exactly. You're like, why am I doing this?

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So that's pretty much what it is. A lot of the products out there, unfortunately,

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they did, a lot of them did good. A lot of them did bad. Right. And you can, you

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just know that they didn't know what it was. And that's understandable. You know,

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I do, I kind of am a jack of all trades in a sense. I do know a lot of different

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things. I knew this was microbiology, 100%. And so, you know, we went in because a

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lot of these are enzyme-based. Problem with enzymes is a lot of them are not

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gonna work on these biofilms. But then that also gives you a shelf life. It

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gives you temperature restrictions, storage restrictions, all kinds of stuff.

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So if you're in South Florida during the summer, it's probably 110 degrees. Your

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truck's probably 120. You put a bottle of something in there that has enzymes in

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it, they're all done. Yeah. So nothing works. Indeed. Wow. All right. I didn't

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realize that it's become that significant of an issue. Yeah. And then

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the one, the N-Diosa, that's the one that is concerning for me once I really got

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to know it because it's evolved so much already and it's already linked to

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nosocomial infections already. And that's, just think one day when every system in

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the United States is aluminum. Right. What's gonna end up happening? What's the

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potential for other markets? If we can get on this now and do this now, that

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would be ideal. And understand what the actual implications are. Know about this,

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prepare for this, and stop using bleach. That's all I ask. That's actually pretty simple. It's very simple. Yeah, it's very simple. Yeah, because, you know, I think about some of the, you know, some of the videos

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that I watch where that the actual treatment is, you know, to clean out the

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lines. Yes. Clean them with bleach. And then now we're still, we're just

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reintroducing the chemicals back into the scenario that's not really doing any good for us.

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Yeah, and see that's the thing, bleach won't work and it's bad for you. Yeah, exactly. And it's

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dangerous for a homeowner too because let's just, a hypothetical situation,

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let's say, and then it doesn't stay. Right. So you put bleach in there, it's gonna

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drain out anyway. Exactly. But let's just say hypothetically that someone, a

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homeowner goes and Googles, you know, my drain lines clogging, what do I do? Because

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they're sick and tired of people not knowing. And someone says vinegar. So

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vinegar is extremely acidic. If you mix vinegar with bleach, it will create

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O2 gases, extremely dangerous. Absolutely it is. Very potent stuff. Yes. So I mean,

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you got to think of that too. Being preventative on all measures. You know,

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people don't know that. A lot of people don't know that. Man, oh man. So there's so many

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hypotheticals. Okay. So are we recommending a coil cleaning and a drain

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preventative as well or are we having success with just the drain preventative?

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So yeah, definitely cleaning before you even set up the system. I always

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recommend cleaning systems normally anyway because that helps you with the

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heat transfer and keeps everything lasting longer. But yeah, you

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wouldn't, I would say with the product that we do have because it's full of

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multiple different things. So it does have cleaners as well, but ours doesn't

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have any biological additives or anything. So it does not have a shelf

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life. And it also doesn't have any temperature restrictions. So you can

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throw that in a truck and nothing in there is going to just stop working.

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Yeah. You know, so we definitely, I feel we checked all the boxes off when we did

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this. We made sure that it was a good product and it's very cost-effective too.

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So I'm gonna have a lot of people going, hey, I've been struggling with this. I

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really need to learn more about it. How do we connect with Highside Chemicals to

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learn more about the product? So you can go on our website. It's highsidechem.com.

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So it's H-I-G-H-S-I-D-E-C-H-E-M.com. And there's a contact us form that we have. I

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see everything that goes through Highside. So I do, like I said, I'm a bit of a jack

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of all trades when it comes to the job. So I don't just do the chemistry part. I'm

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involved with all of it. So if you have questions specifically on this, you're

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gonna get directed to me. And then you can always give us a call. We always

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answer Monday through Friday. We're on Central Time. Good point. Yeah. But yeah, you call and

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you know, sometimes I might even answer if I'm not in a lab or out back

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or anything like that. So we're definitely different than I say certain

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people too. We do answer the phone. So if anybody has a question, yeah. And we also

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do have a lot of different media channels now. Okay. So we have

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Facebook, we have YouTube, we have Instagram, we have LinkedIn, we have

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Twitter. You know, we're on all the things. So you know, you can message

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directly on there. I'm gonna be the one that gets it and I can answer your

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questions. So yeah, we've definitely opened ourselves up to the world a

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little bit because we are a specialty chemical manufacturer. Absolutely. And we

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are an older company. We developed Leeklog back in 1936. So we've been around

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for a long time. 36, that's crazy. I didn't realize they've been around that long. Yeah.

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Me either sometimes. What is the day again? Yeah, because it was developed in 36 and I think we became an LLC in 37. Wow. Yeah. So we've been around for a long time and it took some time and some convincing to get some people on board with, hey, we got to move with the times. People need to be able to contact us. So actually our entire website's revamped. Yeah. And we're definitely, we have our presence out there in different channels now too to help because we, I feel like that's what we do. We make good,

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good products. We put it out there and we don't do it too quick. It's not about making money. It's about making good products for people. Exactly. Making people's lives easier. And putting the science behind it. Exactly. That's the really cool part. I'm so glad we had the conversation about that because so many people are looking at products going, okay, let's try this. Yeah. Okay. That doesn't work. All right. Let's try this. Let's try that. All right. None of this crap works. Yeah. And so now we're actually stepping back going, well, what are we actually trying to treat? Yeah.

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Exactly. And see, I always say you fear what you don't know. Yeah. Figure out what it is. And I always joke to people. I'm like, yeah, I dated these biofilms for about a year. I got to know everything about them. Yeah. I mean, so they were, they were very fascinating at the same time, but we just, we don't want them in HVAC. That's the only thing. Do your thing. Just do it over there. Yeah. All right. So we're not going to be getting rid of it. It's not going away. The only way it would change is if we reverted back to copper. Everything would go back to the way it was before.

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No. Because you would still have this. And see, that's the thing I would tell people, even with the copper, you would still have this issue, but you would be cleaning it five years. You would be doing like every five years you'd get a clog. Exactly. And that's easy. No, everyone's cool with, oh, every five years. Yeah, it's understandable.

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Every two weeks that becomes unaffordable. Annoying. Yeah. Oh, the callbacks and loss profits are just insane. Wow. Okay. I'm glad that you give us that perspective because it answers a lot of the, the unknowns that have been out there in the industry right now.

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Yeah, it took some time, but like I said, we do take our time. But we have one product out that we had it in the field for 10 years before we put it out in the market. Doing test runs. Yeah. I mean, we, they're rigorously tested, you know, quality control is a big thing.

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Yeah. Customer service tech supports our big thing too. So we have a lot of good products that really work. And that's why I always say we have the chemical tools that work. Yeah. And do what they say they're going to do. Right. Very much the specialty chemical company. Yeah. Pretty much. That's what we do.

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I always joke because people are like, what do you do for a living? I'm like, I just create solutions to problems. That's what I feel like. Bring me a problem and I'll, I'll fix it and figure out how. Yeah. Let me solve this for you. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun. It's very, it's very, I can't think of the word. Ratify. Yes. There we go. Absolutely. I've seen it. I've seen it. It's the word, the bubbles popping right up. I'm like, what's this word? Yeah. It's getting late in the day. We've all been very busy. Words are getting hard. They are. Yeah. And we still got them. Yeah.

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And we still got a little bit longer to go. Oh my goodness. I know. It's really been a fun time. And I'm glad we had the chance to sit down and hang out. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on here. I appreciate it. Appreciate you. Thanks.