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softened your senses ways to become a better speaker listener and

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follower. This episode brought to you by Sauermann Group at a

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digital edge to your combustion analysis. Learn more at

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sauermanngroup.com. All right. Hello, everyone. Thank you for

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hanging out with us. Once again, we are still here at the

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National HVACR education conference. Tyler, I think I

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probably went through like 30 35. I'm sure you have and I'm

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surprised you actually have vocal cords left and brain

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matter for that matter. You know, that is the insane part

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about this conference is that yeah, the whole brain matter

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because it's, it's almost like that kid walking into the great

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big candy store. And then you're like, oh, it's all this visual.

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And then they say, oh, and by the way, it's all here for you.

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Take what you want. It's like it's like too much stimulation.

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And then you're having shiny objects in about the same time.

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You just pivot from one thing to the next one thing to the next

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you're like, I got to keep myself on a little bit of a path

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and get a little bit of a focus. Oh, it's yeah, that is a great

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way to present it. So you did that you did a class and I've

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heard so much about it already from people coming in here and

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I go, Oh, you don't know you don't know Tyler Nelson from

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sourman yet. And they're like, Oh, I had no idea. You're just

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one of the most passionate people I just love hanging out

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with you. Honestly, I love watching you like when when I

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sat in that class at AHR, it's like, oh, man, this is my kind

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of dude. He is he's 100% in.

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Well, thank you. I appreciate it. I enjoy my position in the

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industry. I enjoy my obviously my position with my company with

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sourman, and the opportunities that have been provided to me

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and to be able to pay back and give back to those that have

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helped me. Yeah. And to and to do it unlike fashion to pay

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forward has been a one of the highlights of my career for sure.

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And it's an opportunity that I savor. And it's a path that I'm

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on now. And that's the trajectory that I'm on. And I

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feel very confident with it and comfortable with it. And I feel

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very honored to be selected to do it.

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Now you're definitely the guy for it. So let's talk about your

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passion. Let's dive a little bit deeper. And let's help shed some

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light into some not always well educated topics.

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Sure. So for us and for me the way that I look at it, I look at

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training now differently than I did in the past. Training when I

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was a contractor was something that we barely made time for not

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had time for me time for we did not make it a priority. And we

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slowly watched our competition surpass us. And then when I get

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out of contracting and I went into this side of the business,

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and I visited other companies as I was training them, I got to

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see how important it was for them and to see where it took

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them in a standing in our industry and how the best

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companies out there trained. And they also had the best

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employees. And it got me to thinking, you know, the path, the

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path upward and the path onward for us as an industry going

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forward revolves around training. It needs to be a

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priority. You can see it in your conference here and how it's

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grown exponentially year by year. We topped out at 1200

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people this year this conference. And it's everybody

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going after the same educational thirst and hunger for everything.

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You know, it's become a movement into itself. So when we approach

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it now myself and the other trainers, we I think we're

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seeing that now it's a growing trend and it's a way to generate

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business if you're a if you're a manufacturer, you're an

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equipment manufacturer or tool manufacturer like myself to

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provide training. But it's also a way to educate but it's also

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a way if you're a contractor, if you're going to train it's a

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way for you to increase your bottom line because you're

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going to attract better employees that are going to want

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to work for you because you're providing them a proper

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platform for training.

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You know, that's such a good point when we talk about the the

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attraction of those, you know, high providing employees, those

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those hungry employees that are out there because there are a

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lot of them and some of them get in places where they don't feel

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like they're developing and it's such a shame that people are in

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those environments and then they realize that man, I'm just I'm

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not getting to where I feel like I should be because I know that

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there's more to learn. And so we have to be aware of you know,

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what that training looks like and high quality training,

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right?

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Right. And I think in the past with our industry, people looked

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at us a little bit differently because we would come home with

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the end of the day with our fingers a little bit dirty and

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they always thought that we're the ones that sat in the back of

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shop class and failed. Well now with the technology that we're

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utilizing and the technology that's in their homes for them

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to take advantage of and be comfortable with, I think

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they're slowly starting to realize that hey, these people

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are a lot smarter than we thought they pay because we pay

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our taxes just like they do. Our kids play sports next to their

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kids. So we're no different, but we're not the ones that sat in

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the back of shop class and failed and we're the ones that

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actually want to do well. The people in this industry have been

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fixing things since they were kids. They're a very humble

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group. They don't know that what they're doing is something that

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most people can't do, which is great because it keeps us humble.

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However, it is an interesting position to be in now, especially

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with technology. So now with the technology we're utilizing and

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using, we are meeting our customer base where they're at.

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So now the playing field has been leveled. There is

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significant sophistication in everything that we're

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installing and everything we're working with and the tools that

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we're using, as it is in our customers lives in their own

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vocations and in their own professional endeavors. And I

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think that that's kind of drawn, that's been the linchpin to

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kind of draw everybody together, where now the HVAC contractor is

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not looked upon as a necessary evil that lives under the steps

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that nobody wants to pay attention to and just call them

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out twice a year if you even call them out twice a year for

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meetings.

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You know, we've seen this year in particular at the conference,

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a very high amount of distributors and contractor

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trainers that are here. I've even seen the my one of the local

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contractor trainers from my own area. I'm like, wait a minute. I

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know you guys, you've got your own training program. Then I

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went, of course they're here. Because we have contractors that

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are elevating their professionalism. They're aware of

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the technological transitions, the refrigerant transitions,

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they're aware of the importance for high efficiency service,

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right, not just a clean and go a let's take a look at this

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system and get the maximum performance out of it. Like we

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probably should have been doing the entire time, but we really

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didn't and tools and technology have made that so much faster

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that it has become to the point where it is absolutely able to

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be common practice during a standard service.

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Absolutely. And the primary drivers of what we bring are

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simply this comfort and safety. Everybody wants to be

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comfortable. Clifton, they're they're spending more times in

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their houses than they've ever spent before. You know, COVID,

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notwithstanding, everybody wants to be comfortable. Everybody

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wants proper humidity, proper this, proper that, and they're

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googling, how do I get my house more efficient? All these things

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the HVAC contractor is able to do, but the contractor

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themselves has to look beyond the bridge of their nose and

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understand there is a three initial word, IAQ, indoor air

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quality, that they have to pay attention to. They have to

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understand the IAQ side of things. They have to understand

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the whole comfort. They have to understand the house as an

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envelope, as an ecosystem where things function in an ecosystem,

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not mutually exclusive unto themselves. They have to behave

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nice in the sandbox with the way that the house is designed. They

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can't have a house too tight. They can't have a house too

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loose. They have that proper, you know, duct sizing and

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everything else. We have to look at it that way. It can't just be

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as you had said, just a quick clean and check and get the heck

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out of there. It has to be a proper evaluation. And one of

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the things that these instructors here, and then when

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they were contractors and the contractors to be, or that are

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coming to these classes, they're inheriting new customers every

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day. When you're inheriting a new customer, you're inheriting

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that previous contractor's craftspersonship for better or

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for worse. If they're making a pitching change, it's usually

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for the worse. So I would encourage anybody taking on a

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new customer to do a full assessment of that equipment.

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Show them not to point the finger, but show them what was

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missed in the past. Show them what they can do to improve

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their system and become more comfortable. If you go onto the

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auspices of hands above the table and doing it the right way

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and showing how you can increase their comfort, I think you're

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going to have a long lasting relationship with your customer.

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Yeah, that is such a good point. And as we start seeing those

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migrations, as we start seeing those new opportunities, you

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know, let's think about just that the whole combustion

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analysis side of a gas furnace. You know, if that new customer

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has had a skill level that may not have been sufficient in the

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past, can you imagine taking that first opportunity with that

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new customer and go, by the way, because it's an uncomfortable

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transition sometimes. You know, we've seen a lot of private

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equity purchasing and investing into smaller contractors,

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bringing them into larger contractor groups. And many of

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those groups actually have incredibly high standards and

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practices. And so if we look at that as, okay, we got a homeowner

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that has been very comfortable with their contractor for a

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long period of time. Now, all of a sudden, they're going to be

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making a transition into a larger company, and they may

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feel like they're not getting, you know, the service that they

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had in the past. But in reality, they actually have a potential

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to have a higher level of service. Well, certainly

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agreed. And it's and they get the ability to have their the

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actual needs analysis done on all their equipment. And that's

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one of the things that's been lacking is that we're not

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properly assessing equipment. A unique take on this I heard

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yesterday, and when you're talking about educating home

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owners, Donald Baker, who's a very supportive person, he's

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actually here at the convention or conference and right and

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he's up based up in Canada. And I just saw him last week at the

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CMPX as well. So last week, he had said to interesting

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concept would be for us as trainers to go to some of these

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home shows like for me for combustion and instructor put

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on a class for homeowners, they listen, if your contractor

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isn't doing this, you're missing the boat, they're

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contract are doing that if you want, we can give you a list or

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we can put you a point in the right direction. So that when

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they come when the contractor comes out the house, and they're

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not doing combustion, the homeowners like, are you aren't

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you missing a tool? Are you supposed to have an analyzer

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with you? Why are you not doing that? I went to an educational

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presentation that they told me that that's what should be done

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in my system. It's going to be properly diagnosed because

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the bushing analysis is like doing the blood work on a body.

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The blood work doesn't lie. It tells you the state and health

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of you when the blood work is done in you, but despite outward

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appearances, standing with combustion analysis, you cannot

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deny that it shows the state of the health of that piece of

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equipment, despite outward appearances and despite how it

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sounds. Man, think about that. If, if we actually took a

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moment to start focusing towards the contractors, and

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start focusing towards the consumers about the benefits of

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it, it changes the whole structure. It does. It does. And

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that was a great when he brought that up. That was like an

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aha moment for me. Yeah, I see that. And I've had a lot of

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them. But for me to bring it up on a podcast like this, it

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that's how big it was. So kudos to Donald for bringing that

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up. It was it was interesting. And so it, I think that that's

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something that we can that we can look to run with and it

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might be it might open doors for everybody. I think it's

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supposed to happen because I keep getting this from

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different perspectives. I'm sitting down with Chris

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Halshields yesterday when we're talking about carbon

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monoxide safety. And she said, you know, we have a canary suit

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that we do for educational outreach. I could see you doing

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a consumer based video on the importance of utilizing it. And

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I went, my my son's a firefighter. And he actually

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wore their own costume to the football games, you know,

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trying to promote fire safety. Right. Is it time we start

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focusing towards the consumer, consumer awareness from our own

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industry perspective? Yeah, for sure. And in carbon monoxide

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safety is a very important topic nowadays, but everybody

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spending more time indoors, you know, and I am I'm part of the

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National Coalition for carbon monoxide awareness now. And I

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had asked them because years ago, my stepfather passed away

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in 2003 from glioblastoma, which is brain cancer. And he

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worked in the Navy, in the in the boiler rooms and

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everything else got all those licenses and then did that as

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a professional and we were free utility when he got out. And

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when he passed away, some people had approached my mother

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saying, you know, he worked in areas where he didn't have the

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proper PPE. We think there might have been an issue there

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with the things that he was taking into his body. And she

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goes, Listen, I just want to bury my husband, the whole nine

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yards. So fast forward to December of this year, I asked

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the coalition I said, any relationship to this and their

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jaws dropped because we're on a team score, their jaws dropped.

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They said we just had data combat that said out of when

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when people that have been in the service industry like this

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like yours, or HVAC, if they have brain cancer, it's

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glioblastoma and the leading cause of which which has been

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ascertained is from exposure to carbon monoxide that they were

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not aware of. No way. So it was very, very spooky to me to hear

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that because when they looked at me, it's as if I was

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eavesdropping on their meeting that they had just had. They're

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like, what's that? And they told me they said that whatever

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they told your mother back in 2003 has a lot of weight to it.

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And we would basically agree the fact that that is a high

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potential that that's what happened to him and contracting

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firms need to understand that they have to provide the proper

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PPE. If a technician gets sick, OSHA standards and legal

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proceedings state that they can actually pursue the contractor

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because you did not give your staff member the proper

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protective gear, whether it's an analyzer or a personal CEO

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monitor, because you're supposed to provide them with

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proper protective gear to actually do their job. That's a

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whole other show. It's a whole other show. Wow. And and and

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the folks at NCI had alerted me to that. I was not aware of

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that. I was either. So compliments to David Holt for

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mentioning that to me that that is with OSHA standards, they

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have to provide the proper PPE to the employee and to their

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technicians to be able to do their job. You know, we now

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lead the field in carbon monoxide, poisons in all the

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service industries, it with issues with it, and it used to

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be oil and gas. Oil and gas is very much open air now. So it's

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not as prevalent than oil and gas as it was before. And a lot

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of those people already have to have a personal protective

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monitor on their person when they do when they do their job.

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But in here, it's like passe and everybody is reliant often on

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the customer's carbon monoxide detector to keep them safe. Not

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crazy. People are going to choose the cheapest one always

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because they get no social mileage out of it. It's not a

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nice car. It's not a nice lawn. It's not something they can

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show to their friends. It's Starbucks. It's on their wrist

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or on their finger. It's the dirty secret, as I said before,

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with maintenance that lives under the steps. They're going

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to pick the cheapest thing out there. They're going to get out

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of the big box store and it's going to be ineffective. And

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the customer technicians are reliant on that to keep them

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safe. And they're going after the wrong breast ring if

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they're doing that. They need to protect themselves, take

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personal responsibility as do the contracting firms. I think

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we could just sit and talk for hours. We can. We've had these

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conversations before and that's why I guess you could say

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vibe well together. Oh my gosh. Because there's so many layers

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to what we do. And that's the other thing. When we talk about

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how our industry has evolved. Just look at the layers of the

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conversation that we've started this morning. That's nothing

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compared to the other conversations that are being had

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by everybody that's out there in front of us and going into

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these different conference rooms. And there's a lot to it.

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It's like we're all speaking the same language and we're

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finally sitting around together going oh my goodness. We've all

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been speaking the same language. We need to speak this

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together. Right. Yeah. It's like we didn't know it. Yeah. We

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didn't know it. And it was interesting to hear or see

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somebody from Dyken on stage this morning and somebody from

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Fujitsu on stage this morning which are competitors of one

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another. Yeah. Absolutely. But playing very well. Very nicely

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in the sandboxing having fun together. Yeah. You know I've had

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fun with my fellow competitors that have been here. They've

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been very gracious to me and I've been very gracious to them

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and we all realize there's a very large pie out there and

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there's enough pie for everybody. And as long as we

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spill no blood and speak you know kindly and gently of one

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another that that's how we should conduct ourselves as

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as professionals out there that you know the whole industry

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will be a better place because it starts with us and then it

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trickles its way down to how people see us behave. And you

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know it's like leading the charge you know and they say to

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themselves I'm sure the contractors see it and they say

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you know if if if I'm talking to Louise from from UEI or I'm

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talking to the folks at Crocon you know if these two can talk

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together and have nice conversations and have smiles

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on their faces then we can actually get along as

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contractors in competitive firms better. Yeah. And we can you

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know be nicer to one another kinder to one another. Tyler

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Nilsen, Saruman. How do people connect with Saruman? We have

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well we connect with Saruman. We have our Saruman.com I should

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believe. Saruman I think it's Ford slash US caught me off

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guard there for a second. So on online and then we have my

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LinkedIn. We also have our own LinkedIn, Saruman Americas.

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We're on LinkedIn as well and then my LinkedIn profile as

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well to connect with me. So we have that and then we have you

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know the trainings that we do so there's information on our

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site for different trainings and feel free to to reach out to

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me on LinkedIn to to set up a training for your for your

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company. My territory is all the Americas. So depending where

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you're listening to this at where wherever you're listening

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to this I could probably travel to you and and I also do this

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virtually for other people around the world as well. So

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globally awesome. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank

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you Clifton. I appreciate the opportunity.