1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,000 Soften your senses. 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:10,720 Ways to become a better speaker, listener and follower. 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,120 This episode brought to you by The Contractor Consultants. 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,320 Made by contractors for contractors. 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:22,440 Learn more at TheContractorConsultants.com. 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,720 Alright everyone, thank you for joining us once again on Did You Know? 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,880 The Esco HVAC Podcast. 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,760 So we're going to kind of shift realms just a little bit today. 9 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,680 We're going to talk about the things that we talk about all the time. 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,760 How do you prepare students for the workforce? 11 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:47,080 As a new employee, how do I prepare myself and market myself to a good company? 12 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:52,000 And as a contractor, where do I even go to be able to look for the right recruits that 13 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,400 have the right skill sets that I can invest in and I can retain? 14 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,920 Because we're starting to see some shifts in that. 15 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:04,320 And we really do have some incredible talent, especially when we talk about GNZ and the 16 00:01:04,320 --> 00:01:06,520 up and coming alpha workforce. 17 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:11,200 We have people that are ready and willing to make changes to the world around us. 18 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,360 And so today we're being joined by Matt DeBarra. 19 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:14,360 Matt, how are you sir? 20 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:15,360 I'm great. 21 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:16,960 Thank you for having me. 22 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:18,080 Absolutely. 23 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,160 I love the opportunity to talk about other pieces of the trades. 24 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:26,080 And you represent a different trade than what most of this audience is. 25 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:27,480 Tell me a little bit about your trade. 26 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:28,480 Yeah. 27 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,320 So fourth generation contractor, my great grandfathers were home builders and then it 28 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:35,280 niched down into masonry and concrete, which is what they enjoyed. 29 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:40,440 And that's kind of where the family kind of core business has been for the last 80 years. 30 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:41,440 Wow. 31 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:42,440 Okay. 32 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,320 So fourth generation in construction, right? 33 00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:49,080 You have a variety of businesses that you're developing. 34 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,000 And one of those is the contractor consultants. 35 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,760 Now tell me a little bit about where that came from. 36 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:56,760 And necessity and pain. 37 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,400 I struggled to hire. 38 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,920 I thought, so I grew up, my peak in taking over the business was right around 2008. 39 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:06,320 So it was a very different time. 40 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:07,320 A lot of changes then. 41 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:08,320 A lot of changes. 42 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,600 And so that was when everyone was telling me not to join a trade, go to college. 43 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,880 It's the worst thing you can do. 44 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,960 And so I had this belief sales solved everything. 45 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,040 I thought if you sold enough work, you'd be fine. 46 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,200 And the last three years has taught us that you could sell as much work as you want, but 47 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,520 if you don't have the right team and enough of the right team and people to grow your 48 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:31,680 organization, you can work on the books, just sitting there and an inability to do it. 49 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:36,640 And that's where I found myself and became a problem that I eventually solved through 50 00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:40,400 a lot of different methods and traveling the country, mentors. 51 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,680 I took over all the hiring myself. 52 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:44,360 I did every interview, every phone call. 53 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,320 I just needed to understand it like a mad scientist. 54 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:52,760 And I left that with a formula for what worked for me and then took that to other people. 55 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,680 And it kind of grew into a lot of other things. 56 00:02:55,680 --> 00:03:00,320 So let's think about some of those things that we're looking for as a contractor, because 57 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,400 I think this is very helpful for an educator. 58 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:08,320 When we have students coming through a program, it's hard to determine if they're going to 59 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:12,880 be really good workers in the workforce or if not, because there's a lot of stipulations 60 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:14,420 that happen with generations. 61 00:03:14,420 --> 00:03:17,160 And sometimes they're like blindfolds. 62 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,480 Sometimes we don't look past those barriers. 63 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,700 A prime example is technology. 64 00:03:22,700 --> 00:03:27,520 You can have an educator that could look at a student and go, I don't know if they're 65 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:32,160 going to be really good working with their hands because they're constantly on their 66 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:33,840 phone. 67 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:38,740 Without stopping for a minute and thinking, well, that could be the person that's doing 68 00:03:38,740 --> 00:03:40,600 installations and commissionings. 69 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,400 That could be the person that is doing estimates and is doing evaluations. 70 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,960 That's the person that could be using LIDAR on their camera to go out into a job site 71 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,880 and go, here's 3D animation, send it off to the shop. 72 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:57,920 So let's think about those characteristics that a contractor is looking for so that an 73 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:04,320 educator and that student can have an idea of what to prepare for once we get out into 74 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:05,320 the market. 75 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,700 Well, I think that's a beautiful part about today is different from when I was growing 76 00:04:09,700 --> 00:04:14,200 up is this kind of intersection of you have this huge need in the trades. 77 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:19,160 So a lot of these traditional paywalls that were time-based where it was like when so 78 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,960 and so retires, then you can be promoted. 79 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,960 Now greatness rises and it's independent of age or gender. 80 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:30,080 And so that's really cool for anybody, any students learning in the industry because 81 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,200 the way you can grow, you really set your own course. 82 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,200 I think there's also different tranches or buckets within the industry like you mentioned. 83 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:43,160 So you have the hands-on skill set that's needed for most companies. 84 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,560 There's a hands-on physical aspect to it. 85 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,600 For me, when I started, we used to print plans and we would mark them up and add different 86 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:51,600 color highlighters. 87 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:56,720 And so it wasn't like the hands-on skill set wasn't super different. 88 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,840 We use Word to type up our proposals. 89 00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:01,280 This was 15 years ago and we printed our plans. 90 00:05:01,280 --> 00:05:06,000 So the gap between me building a stone wall and me estimating our project management wasn't 91 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,000 too crazy. 92 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:08,960 You had whiteboards, you had Excel sheets. 93 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,840 There wasn't much happening and we had Polaroid pictures that we used to get developed. 94 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:15,400 We'd go to CVS and develop those once a week. 95 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:21,360 And so that was the gap from hands-on to the most technical side of the job. 96 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:26,920 Now it's like you have AI, you've got technology, you've got so many different skill sets within 97 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:32,360 an organization that I think one of the big things an educator can do is really look at 98 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:33,360 a company. 99 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:39,720 And I remember being in vocational high school and I competed in SkillsUSA like I mentioned 100 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:40,720 earlier. 101 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,200 There were certain kids that weren't great at laying brick but really enjoyed it and 102 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:45,200 wanted to be in the industry. 103 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,680 And I had a teacher that was like, you'll never make it in this industry. 104 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:50,200 And that is so not true now. 105 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:51,200 I'm thinking of Steve. 106 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:52,600 Steve was really funny. 107 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:53,600 Everybody loves Steve. 108 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,800 He would have made a great estimator, great product manager. 109 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,280 He was great at managing people. 110 00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:59,200 He just wasn't the best bricklayer. 111 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:04,760 And so thinking about the different buckets, hands-on, technology, people skills, whether 112 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:09,480 it's sales or maybe business development, graphic design and some of the things that 113 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,900 marketing skills set, you may like the industry and like the work. 114 00:06:12,900 --> 00:06:18,800 So I look back at almost every person in my classes when I was in high school and they 115 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:20,720 all have a place now. 116 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,000 Back then, I don't know that they did. 117 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,800 And I think that's the important piece for an educator is to look at a student and help 118 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,840 them understand that, you know what, just because maybe you're not the best at installing 119 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:33,400 something, doesn't mean you can't have a fantastic career in the industry. 120 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,840 That is such a good point because you're right. 121 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:41,760 If we looked at the labor force 10 years ago or 20 years ago, you might have been building 122 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,920 a program to focus on one particular thing. 123 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,480 Like say maybe it was installation, right? 124 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,080 Because we're doing a lot of construction. 125 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:49,080 We need installation. 126 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:50,160 We're going to focus on this. 127 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,000 We need a lot of this bucket. 128 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,080 Well, that has changed. 129 00:06:54,080 --> 00:07:00,080 And every department now needs people, right, that have the passion for the career that 130 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:01,400 they have chosen. 131 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:06,400 So if we look at a classroom and we've got 20 people in our classroom, and previously 132 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:13,400 we might say, okay, we're probably going to pass 75% of this classroom and we're probably 133 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:19,760 going to place 50% of this classroom because the other 50% just weren't cut out to be installers. 134 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,800 And the sad reality is there were probably some generations where that was acceptable 135 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:28,360 and that people wouldn't be placed in this career once they completed a program. 136 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,480 And now we have the opportunity to step back and go, wait a minute. 137 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:38,520 They were interested in this career, this field, which is why they chose the program. 138 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,920 So now it's up to us to help understand where are they going to be placed? 139 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:48,160 And now I need to look outside of my traditional buckets. 140 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,860 One of the driving forces for a program is the advisory committee. 141 00:07:51,860 --> 00:07:54,940 It's the contractors that feed the program, right? 142 00:07:54,940 --> 00:07:55,940 What do I need? 143 00:07:55,940 --> 00:08:00,400 Well, as a program and as an educator, maybe I need to be stepping outside of my traditional 144 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:07,800 box and going, okay, let's look at some contractors that are truly forward thinking and are looking 145 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,700 for more than just the installer. 146 00:08:10,700 --> 00:08:15,860 They're looking to have a successful business and they're going to need a variety of different 147 00:08:15,860 --> 00:08:18,480 types of people coming out of a program. 148 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:19,480 Absolutely. 149 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:26,960 I mean, just the ability to take a group of people that all have different hands-on skill 150 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:27,960 sets. 151 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,760 I think you could argue that if there's that core passion for the industry, I mean, that's 152 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:36,720 what I think drives a lot of success is just having a genuine passion for the industry. 153 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,480 And there's so many places you can go with it now. 154 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,440 And I think opening up that conversation, I think this is a newer conversation. 155 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,840 I haven't spoken much about this, but I think we're at the precipice of this being a more 156 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,960 common conversation. 157 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,800 We just hired another marketing person and they had no background in construction in 158 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:56,320 my personal business. 159 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,080 And they didn't have any background in construction, but they loved it. 160 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:00,520 They had a friend that did it. 161 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,800 And so here we are taking in all these marketing skills. 162 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:08,320 So it's the diversity within a growing organization and the needs that they have is very, very 163 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:09,320 different. 164 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:10,320 Yeah. 165 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:16,760 You know, there are three facts that you have on your website that is designed for your 166 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:22,000 trade of our industries, but it really relates to all trades, right? 167 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:28,720 Fact number one, 88% of contractors have difficulty finding skilled workers. 168 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,500 That's every HVAC contractor you will talk to. 169 00:09:32,500 --> 00:09:37,160 Fact number two, 77% of contractors believe that skilled labor costs will continue to 170 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:38,160 rise. 171 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:39,160 Absolutely. 172 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:43,680 Just like we were talking about as technology becomes more intertwined with what we do, we're 173 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:48,520 going to need a more technologically skilled workforce, right? 174 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:49,900 It's going to take more training. 175 00:09:49,900 --> 00:09:52,600 It's going to take more cost. 176 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:57,600 And fact number three, 35% of contractors are not able to take on more jobs because they're 177 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,960 not able to maintain a workforce. 178 00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:02,680 You're talking about that before we started, right? 179 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:06,600 Tell me a little bit about that side of it, that fact number three, because that really 180 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,880 pertains to all of our trades industries. 181 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:14,760 Well, when we ask business owners to...there's a test you can do. 182 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:19,500 And one of them is if I say, take the largest project that you've ever done or take your 183 00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:22,760 best month and imagine you had two of those in a row. 184 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:24,360 Are you excited or scared? 185 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:29,600 And most business owners go, well, I'm excited, but I'm actually scared now because how do 186 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:30,600 I do it? 187 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,000 And so that's the stress test. 188 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,760 That's the litmus test for, is your company set up? 189 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:41,500 Do you have a hiring pipeline and a system that allows you to take on more work? 190 00:10:41,500 --> 00:10:47,100 Because what a lot of companies do is, and I love this about business owners and business 191 00:10:47,100 --> 00:10:51,480 managers and people within companies, they set revenue goals. 192 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,060 Most companies, if I'm doing X, they're like, next year we're going to do Y. 193 00:10:54,060 --> 00:10:55,160 Almost every business does that. 194 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,120 I did that even when we were much smaller. 195 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:03,100 And what that translates to, if you want to grow the company, unless you can figure out 196 00:11:03,100 --> 00:11:08,080 how to grow 20, 30, 40, 50% without adding any people, which is near impossible in our 197 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,280 industry and any construction related industry. 198 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,960 So now what you're saying is, I need a different org structure. 199 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:16,840 I need different people. 200 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:22,380 And so really what you're saying is, in order to grow my revenue, I need to grow my team. 201 00:11:22,380 --> 00:11:27,800 And what we find with most companies is they don't feel, a lot of them tend to feel confident 202 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:29,560 that they can grow the revenue. 203 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:33,640 But then when we say, okay, you're doing a million dollars now, you want to go to 1.4 204 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:34,640 million next year. 205 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:35,640 Great. 206 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:36,640 You're confident you can do that. 207 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:37,640 Yeah, I have the leads. 208 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:38,640 Yeah, we can do it. 209 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:39,640 We turned down more work than that last year. 210 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:40,640 Okay. 211 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,200 But are you confident you can get the team? 212 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:44,200 Are you 100% certain? 213 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,120 And that's usually the weak point. 214 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:47,760 And I know this because I suffered from this. 215 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:52,980 Four and a half, five years ago, this was my big kryptonite in the business. 216 00:11:52,980 --> 00:11:55,120 So that's really what we're trying to help solve. 217 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,680 And I'm trying to do it on both sides. 218 00:11:56,680 --> 00:12:00,480 One is helping businesses become better at hiring. 219 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,200 We do a lot of that hands on for them. 220 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,000 So we own the process. 221 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:05,000 We're results driven. 222 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,240 We put qualified candidates on their calendar. 223 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,400 So we've got a model to do that. 224 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:14,040 But on the other side, because we have all this data, we also like to show educators 225 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,740 like what we're talking about now, hey, these are the candidates that rise to the top. 226 00:12:17,740 --> 00:12:23,600 This resume, this skill set, this type of person and this ability to be interviewed. 227 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,760 This is what our team is drooling over and saying, hey, you better talk to this person 228 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:28,760 today. 229 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,600 Make space on your calendar because they're going to go. 230 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:38,040 Man, that is really on point because you have to have that connection. 231 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:43,880 So if you've got a contractor that's looking for the talent and you've got educators that's 232 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,640 trying to supply talent, what happens if they don't cross? 233 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,920 And unfortunately, we see that a lot in our industry. 234 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:56,240 We see that path not happening because you'll have contractors going, I'm just not getting 235 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:57,880 the talent that I need. 236 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:02,460 And then we'll go, are you participating in advisory programs to help the educators know 237 00:13:02,460 --> 00:13:03,840 what you're actually looking for? 238 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,760 Because what you're looking for today is not the same as it was five years ago, not the 239 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:12,580 same as 10 years ago, absolutely not the same as it was 20 years ago. 240 00:13:12,580 --> 00:13:17,520 And so it's really important for the contractor to be able to understand what they need and 241 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,540 what the educator to understand what they should be preparing for. 242 00:13:20,540 --> 00:13:29,400 And you do in five basic steps, you really go through what it is that a contractor needs. 243 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,080 Like when they're looking at that, right? 244 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,840 Step one, a clear understanding. 245 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:35,840 Where do we begin? 246 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:36,840 Yeah, exactly. 247 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:41,640 It starts with with getting really clear on who they're looking for and who they truly 248 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:42,640 need. 249 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,940 The other thing we do is we really look at, we have this exercise called, would you work 250 00:13:45,940 --> 00:13:46,940 for you? 251 00:13:46,940 --> 00:13:50,880 If you knew nothing else about your company, and this is more what we do for them, but 252 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,640 online, what are you doing to attract great talent? 253 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,000 So what does your website look like? 254 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,760 Do you have a career page? 255 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:03,880 Does that page have a 60 second or 90 second career video that shows off your company and 256 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,600 where your office is and all the cool things that everyone that currently works there gets 257 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:08,960 to see every day? 258 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:10,800 And who are your hiring competitors? 259 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:18,400 Like if I'm looking for an HVAC, if I just get out of a program and I'm a tech now, and 260 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:23,720 I type in HVAC tech jobs near blank, who are the competitors that are going to come up 261 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,480 and what do they look like? 262 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,520 And so going through this journey, I mean, we have a lot of different ways that we do 263 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,520 it, but a similar flip side for a candidate, right? 264 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,680 So if you're coming out of a program, what can you do to make yourself more marketable? 265 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,600 How do you get exposure? 266 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:40,760 Uploading your resume online. 267 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,200 Having a resume is certainly helpful. 268 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,000 LinkedIn, there's all these tools you can do as a candidate and what educators I think 269 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,920 can help people do to get into the workforce. 270 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:49,920 Yeah. 271 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:55,000 I think it's important that a contractor is showing that, a clear understanding. 272 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,600 What is your career path? 273 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,180 Are you going to be here and just be an installer the rest of your life or have I got some things 274 00:15:01,180 --> 00:15:06,840 of interest to you because our new generations of workers are looking for what can I do and 275 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,840 what can you offer for me, right? 276 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:14,680 So it's important that a contractor is very specific on what they can do for a career. 277 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:19,000 I was talking to a good friend of mine that has a very successful contracting company. 278 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,840 He said the most important thing that he does is he builds resumes for his employees. 279 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:30,020 I'm like, why isn't the, as an educator, why am I not starting that resume construction 280 00:15:30,020 --> 00:15:36,240 and showing my students what they have accomplished so they can see the different paths that they 281 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:43,040 can take and connect them with the right contractors that can fulfill the path that that student, 282 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:44,720 that employee would like to go to. 283 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:50,460 I mean, there's a lot of connections in there that if we're just very clear about our expectations 284 00:15:50,460 --> 00:15:52,820 upfront and it can go a long way. 285 00:15:52,820 --> 00:15:53,820 We taught that in the course. 286 00:15:53,820 --> 00:15:57,880 I mean, in the contractor hiring course, we literally taught where there's a section on 287 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:03,000 how to reach educators of different programs, how to reach out, what to say, how to be very 288 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:04,280 clear about where you're looking for. 289 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,480 I mean, that was a huge, for me personally with my masonry and concrete company, that 290 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:13,800 was a big growth opportunity for us was really getting embedded within local schools and 291 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:18,320 high schools with trade programs and looking at their alumni list because that's the other 292 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,960 thing is it's not just the students in the program right now. 293 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,000 If they're keeping in touch with the people who graduated five, six, seven years ago, 294 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,000 where did they end up? 295 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,680 And so there's a huge opportunity there, but you're right. 296 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:33,960 It's helping the candidate set themselves up in number one, a way to be discovered. 297 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,200 How do you get visibility in an online world? 298 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,840 And then number two, I mean, I guess in no order, how do you also understand the different 299 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,400 career paths within a company and know what you're going for? 300 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:53,520 Because if you're not the best with your hands, let's say, and how do you work that into your 301 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:54,520 presentation? 302 00:16:54,520 --> 00:17:00,560 Because there's tons of roles for people who are okay or good, maybe not the best, but 303 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,800 want to move into something else and they understand the work. 304 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,000 There's a huge need for that in construction. 305 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,000 Yeah, absolutely. 306 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,480 All of our trades are. 307 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,720 And that's step number two, find, right? 308 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,040 How do you even find the people? 309 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,800 How do you make those connections? 310 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,800 Even like you're saying, even if I'm trying to make connections with my schools, with 311 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:24,240 my programs, my apprenticeship programs, how do you actually work with that? 312 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,120 How do you work with referrals and digital listings? 313 00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:28,120 That's step two. 314 00:17:28,120 --> 00:17:32,720 That's diving into how do you actually go out and find the people that are going to 315 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,200 be a good fit. 316 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:41,040 Yeah, filling that pipeline, getting so many different opportunities for potential candidates. 317 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,400 I mean, it's multiples more than what you think, especially some markets are extremely 318 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:46,400 difficult. 319 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:47,560 Yeah, absolutely. 320 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,560 Which comes into like step three, then comes down to vetting, right? 321 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,560 Because what if you get abundance of applications and then understanding, you know, what are 322 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,280 their skills? 323 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:03,040 And one of the things that was pointed out in your step three is the skills assessment. 324 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:04,280 And so I see that from both ways. 325 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,640 I see a contractor going, all right, let's look at this potential employee. 326 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:09,800 Let's do a skills assessment. 327 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,840 Let's do an evaluation of what they actually do. 328 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,240 But I also look back at the educator going, all right, if I've got contractors that are 329 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,240 stepping up the game and they're actually looking at this, maybe I should be providing 330 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:24,800 at least some general assessments of how these students did going through the program. 331 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:30,960 And as a new potential employee, as the student coming out of a program, I want to be able 332 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,680 to show what I have accomplished. 333 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,920 And it's okay to show the things that I struggled with because it might help make a better fit 334 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:39,520 for everyone long term. 335 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,400 Well, and the skills assessment is, I mean, we find that with most companies, we're across 336 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:49,360 the US and Canada right now and eventually will be in the Australian UK markets for what 337 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:51,160 we do in the hiring side. 338 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:56,600 And we find that the skills assessment is relatively new to a lot of companies. 339 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,960 And so what would be really interesting is if the candidate approached the company and 340 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:03,320 said, hey, look, instead of me chatting with you, what I'd love to do is go over to your 341 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:04,320 shop and do XYZ. 342 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:09,040 I mean, that would be a whole different level because every business owner that we've talked 343 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,520 to and brought this up and helped them build this out, they love it. 344 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,840 But now it's like, I think there's the educator side of building it out within the program 345 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,600 and having them master that. 346 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,840 But also, I think even the candidate, I mean, imagine an interview where you're like, hey, 347 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:23,400 look, I can explain these things. 348 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,840 Or if you want, I'm happy to go over and show you. 349 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,440 I mean, that's you want to talk about a candidate hack. 350 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,200 I mean, that puts you at the top of the game. 351 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:32,200 Yeah. 352 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:36,080 It moves into like that number four, like when you talk about hiring, right? 353 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:41,440 And how do you like show in those first couple of weeks, the whole process, right? 354 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,800 Showing them what that new role looks like. 355 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:52,120 You know, I can tell you just in a large overview of recruiters for professional positions nationwide, 356 00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:56,720 our recruiters are so much more specific about the placement today than they were just a 357 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,580 couple of years ago, right? 358 00:19:58,580 --> 00:20:05,240 They want to make sure that they're placing the right person with the right contractor. 359 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,080 And they're very, very, very tuned to unique skill sets. 360 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,440 So being able to bring someone in, bringing them in, right? 361 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:17,760 We've done some assessment, they're going to be a good fit, but let's show them in 362 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:22,480 a short period of time, you know, what that hiring process looks like and be very clear. 363 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:28,980 Set those paths out right up front so that we make sure that we're not losing that talent 364 00:20:28,980 --> 00:20:30,600 in a short period of time. 365 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:31,600 Yeah. 366 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,960 It's that clear, clear understanding of what things should look like and communicating 367 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:35,960 often. 368 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:40,180 I mean, that's the big one because not, especially if you're a smaller medium sized company, 369 00:20:40,180 --> 00:20:44,000 the expectation that you're going to get everything right all the time and have this perfect onboarding 370 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,260 plan that that's the dream. 371 00:20:46,260 --> 00:20:48,000 And I think everyone should strive for that. 372 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,320 But we have companies with 50, 80, 100 employees and they still don't have it, you know, and 373 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:53,320 more. 374 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:54,920 I mean, we have some with thousands, right? 375 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:55,920 Franchisees. 376 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:02,400 And so we find that the communication, having regularly scheduled upfront communication 377 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,800 intervals for as a candidate, you know, coming in as a new employee and also as a business 378 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:12,920 owner helps a lot because it creates room to discuss those little things that, you know, 379 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,380 might be a slight bother, but if they left, if they're left on, unaddressed can become 380 00:21:17,380 --> 00:21:18,880 a big issue. 381 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:19,880 Yeah. 382 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,420 And step number five, retaining, right? 383 00:21:22,420 --> 00:21:24,600 That whole retention factor. 384 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:31,000 There was a time decade ago, two decades ago, probably for the last five or six decades, 385 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:36,920 where when you got into a job as a business owner, you expected that person to work really 386 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:37,920 hard. 387 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,360 You might even treat them like crap just to see what they were made out of. 388 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:45,640 And you expected that they were coming back the next day because they wanted a paycheck. 389 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,800 And that has changed, right? 390 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:56,120 That has changed in the fact that people are much more respectful of individuals today 391 00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:57,120 than what they have in the past. 392 00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:58,120 And I love it. 393 00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:06,040 I think that our culture is making a shift and are a lot more open to in today's generations 394 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:07,720 to individuality. 395 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:14,240 And so as an educator, understanding the dynamics and the diversity in the classroom, but also 396 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:21,760 as a contractor, understanding that diversity as well and making sure that we're giving 397 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,580 access for careers because we all really want the same thing. 398 00:22:26,580 --> 00:22:31,580 If I'm an educator, I want to prepare a student for a long, successful career. 399 00:22:31,580 --> 00:22:37,280 If I'm a student, I want to be prepared for a long, successful career with the right company. 400 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:44,040 And if I'm a contractor, I want to be a long, successful company with the right people. 401 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:48,480 And how do you make sure that you retain that talent when you find it? 402 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:54,000 And I think as an educator, if I'm thinking about this as an educator, one thing that 403 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,200 I think is important is the different types of companies and helping students understand 404 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,440 that because there's really small businesses, five, six, seven, eight people in the company 405 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,400 and there's pros and cons to that. 406 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,380 There's very large companies and pros and cons to them having a really refined hiring 407 00:23:09,380 --> 00:23:12,560 process and maybe they'll take you in without as much experience. 408 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:19,720 And so I think really if there was an opportunity to kind of break down the archetype of a five 409 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:26,120 to 10 person company versus a 20 to 30 versus a 50 to 100 or 250 plus, what are the things 410 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:27,120 that you get? 411 00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:28,880 I've worked for all of those different companies. 412 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:34,040 I've worked for companies from small up to multi-billion dollars when I was in college 413 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:40,640 and internships and I think that also ties into the success of the student is getting 414 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,800 them to understand the diversity of different things they can do in the industry and that 415 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,520 it's not a one size fits all, right? 416 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:51,360 More technology leaning, more hands-on leaning if I were to kind of draw parallels or polarities 417 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:52,360 rather. 418 00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:55,760 And then the other is the different types of companies in the marketplace because there's, 419 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,760 I mean we look at clients and there's such a diversity of cultures and businesses and 420 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,200 I think if you help a student understand that, then they know who they should be applying 421 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:05,200 to when they go out. 422 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,580 They go, oh, I want to work for a company like this because I want to do these things 423 00:24:08,580 --> 00:24:12,620 or I want a bigger company that's got a really structured onboarding plan because I'm thinking 424 00:24:12,620 --> 00:24:16,320 five or 10 years out and I know they're going to be a business in five or 10 years. 425 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,480 I know that they've got a proven development plan. 426 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:23,880 I mean both have benefits but I don't know that that's something that's as talked about 427 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,680 as it could be and I think it's a huge success indicator. 428 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:27,680 Yeah, completely. 429 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,280 Well, man, I love the things that you're teaching. 430 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:39,400 They completely apply to all of our trades and how can people find contractor consultants? 431 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:40,400 Website's great. 432 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:46,080 Thecontractorconsultants with an S at the end there.com or shoot me an email if you 433 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,080 have any questions. 434 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,440 I love this stuff so I'm always here to help in any way I can. 435 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:54,120 It's MD and then at the company name, the contractor consultants. 436 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:55,120 All right. 437 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:58,880 Matt DeBaron, thank you so much for joining us and I really appreciate this conversation. 438 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:19,920 Thank you.