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Welcome to the future technologies and innovations that sculpt our industry.

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This episode brought to you by Interplay Learning, virtual reality training and education for

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the skilled trades.

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Learn more at interplaylearning.com.

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All right, everyone, thank you so much for joining us once again on Did You Know?

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The ESCO HVAC Podcast.

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So this time we're hanging out with Dan Clapper, Marketing Director for Interplay Learning.

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How are you, my friend?

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I'm awesome.

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How are you, Clifton?

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I'm doing well.

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You know, we keep talking about ways that we can help educators, ways that we can help

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contractors, ways that we can help even our technical trainers from manufacturers, right?

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There's a lot of ways that technology is changing the way we approach education.

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And Interplay is right at the heart of doing technological advancements and technological

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opportunities.

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And we've recently done a partnership on that to make sure that we're preparing industries

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and not just our own, but people who have came from other industries that's looking

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for a fresh start and looking at HVAC and they're looking at refrigeration and electrical

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and they're looking at all these different pieces of the trades going, I really would

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like to have a piece of that.

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And where do I begin?

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So let's talk a little bit about Interplay and let's talk about things that are going

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on in the digital education side.

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Yeah, that's great.

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Yeah, I think, you know, one of the fun things that we do at Interplay that's kind of our

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differentiator is simulations.

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Yes.

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Right?

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So we create a 3D environment, just like a video game where you can go in and you can

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practice.

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You can practice using a multimeter, practice, you know, doing service or maintenance or

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troubleshooting.

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And we hear time and time again, like, it's actually fun.

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This is a fun way to learn.

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Yeah.

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You know, we've got people that love doing it.

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So, you know, that's the secret sauce of Interplay anyway.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Because when we look at like digital technology and how much that's changed and how much the

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whole 3D world is evolving, I mean, it's like evolving at a crazy fast speed, like so many

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things in the industries.

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But that piece of what we do and the way that we utilize that for training is a really,

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really, really cool function.

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Because if we say we're taking someone who is new into working with their hands, you

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know, that could be a high schooler that's just now going into an HVAC program.

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That could be an experienced person from another industry that's looking at the trades going,

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man, you know what?

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A lot of people lost their jobs and didn't have things to do during the pandemic.

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But these people were like out busy making money.

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And I want a piece of that.

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So where do I begin?

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And what can I do to make sure that I'm doing it safe?

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Because if I've never touched electrical meter and a motor before, do I really want to get

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my hands in there first or do I want to virtually do that?

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Yeah.

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And it's super fun.

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We like even in a school setting or like in a contractor shop, if I can send someone through

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a simulation five or 10 times before they play around with the equipment in my shop,

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you know, number one, they're going to be safer.

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Number two, they're going to actually kind of have a baseline knowledge of what they're

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even looking at.

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And three, there's less chance of them burning out the controls and stuff on the equipment

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in your shop.

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And that's a big plus.

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You don't need to let the smoke out.

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All right.

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We can we can virtually do that so we can actually see what's going on.

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And we're not talking about just HVAC, right?

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We're talking about HVAC.

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We're talking about the commercial side of HVAC.

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We're talking about plumbing.

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We're talking about electrical.

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We're talking about multifamily maintenance.

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We're talking about facilities maintenance.

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We're talking about safety.

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We're talking about solar.

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And we're also talking about hospitality fundamentals.

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Right.

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Yeah, totally.

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So and you guys have released a lot.

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Yeah.

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And I think again, to your point, like we're seeing a lot of career exploration, like people

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are taking this to the, you know, to the job fairs or the are the high schools or the,

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you know, the local community events and, you know, giving kids an option like, hey,

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look at this.

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This field is actually fun to get into.

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You can you can play around in a simulation and you can go through a problem solving process

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and actually figure things out.

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Like, you know, it just gives a different perspective of what people might originally

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think about the trades.

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Absolutely.

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And you're also working with even like some of the equipment manufacturers to be able

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to put together the simulations on like real pieces of equipment, not just, you know, like

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theoretical designs of things.

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We're actually diving into functional pieces of equipment and functional components to

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get an in-depth understanding of what that's actually going to look like once you get out

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into the field.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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We we partner with some of the major manufacturers out there.

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I actually just spent a whole week down at Dykens corporate headquarters and we build

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simulations for them.

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Down at the learning center.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah.

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I'll be anxious to see those.

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That's like one of my favorite products.

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So when we start talking about these educational opportunities, let's talk about who the primary

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market is for.

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Yeah.

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So, you know, I hear from we we have, I don't know, two thousand contractors we deal with

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at least that, you know, they they struggle with hiring qualified technicians.

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Right.

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Absolutely.

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A lot of a lot of people retiring.

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There's just there's more coming through the trade schools, but there's still not enough.

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So what's happening is a lot of these contractors are becoming trade schools themselves.

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They have to keep people in house.

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So these could be, you know, kids out of high school or people in their 20 or 30s, 40s that

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are looking for a career change.

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And a lot of times these are people that maybe don't have the best, you know, haven't had

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the best opportunities in life.

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They maybe had a tough home life or they immigrated to the country or they dropped out of college

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or like we're talking people that are maybe making minimum wage or barely taking care

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of their family.

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And through having an in-house career development program, you're giving them a path, a career

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and literally changing their lives.

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And that's why we love to do it.

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You know, I keep I keep going back to this conversation that I'm starting to believe

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that every person in the HVAC and just in training in general, like have servant hearts,

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like we all want to help people become better.

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Right.

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It's like we get a kick out of opening opportunities and doors for people to give them the tools

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to be successful.

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And you're right.

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We don't have the capacity in our vocational programs to keep up with the demand that we

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now have for people wanting to be in this industry.

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Like we hear all the time from our schools, you know, I've got 15 seats available.

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I typically will get, you know, 18 or 20 applications this year.

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I've got 300.

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Yeah, and it's insane.

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It's absolutely insane.

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So we're actually turning away people who want to be in the field.

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And so even at our conference this year, we had a huge increase in the amount of contractor

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technical trainers that are building their programs.

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They're coming to HVAC excellence and ESCO going, OK, I want to put together a program

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and I need the curriculum and I need to have an outline.

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And we go, well, we really help with it, like the outline side of things.

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And we talk about, you know, the the principles that you need to be teaching.

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We talk about the competencies and the task list.

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And then it's going to be up to you to decide what curriculum is going to work best for

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your environment.

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And so in the schools, we can use Interplay like for homework in particularly, man.

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That is like so good, because if we're going to be doing a hands on class, we can go, all

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right, we're going to be using a meter on a motor tomorrow.

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Tonight, you're going to go home and you're going to do this for a few times on your own

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before you get here.

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When we get to the contractor, the contractor is trying to do on the job training as well.

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So they're wanting to get that exact same educational concepts in there.

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They want to make sure that you see this stuff before you actually sit down in class and

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work with it or before you're in a customer's building and you're working on this going,

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OK, I'm going to try not to burn this place down.

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Exactly.

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So you get to actually experiment with that.

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And so what we've been doing is we've been helping make those connections.

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And then now we also have coming back from our educators as well as our distributor educators

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and our contractor educators going, OK.

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So we're teaching this stuff.

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We want to make sure that they're retaining that knowledge as they're going through these

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courses and how can we do that?

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And so you and I, you know, right, Interplay and HVAC excellence got together and we decided,

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well, let's just attach certifications for that and let's see if they're retaining this

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knowledge and that way we can start tracking that.

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And so as someone's taking the courses, they're able to then go back and, all right, let's

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see if I learned everything that I was supposed to learn.

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If I did, sweet.

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I'm going to walk away now with a certification showing that I've actually retained this knowledge.

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That's powerful.

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It's so powerful.

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And, you know, I dropped out of college twice is the story I like to tell people.

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I never complete them.

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And I always had this thing like, man, I, you know, I wish I actually did complete.

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I got something.

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And just in the last year, I got a couple of certifications myself.

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And I tell you what, it feels good.

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It's rewarding.

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I've been working hard for a long time and now I actually have proof that I can go to

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people and say, by the way, I actually can back up what I say.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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This is not just a bunch of good words.

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This, you know, this is proof.

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I actually do know what I'm talking about.

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Yeah.

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And it's a very, very powerful thing to help someone achieve that.

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You know, one of the really cool podcasts I did a while back was with a contractor that

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focuses on recruitment by building the resume for their employees.

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And I was like, well, tell me about this.

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What are you doing?

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It's like, well, we're building a training path for our employees so that when someone

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comes into the industry, no matter what role they're going to end up in our company, they

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are all going to do the same training and they utilize interplay training for every

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person coming into the company.

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It didn't matter if you're going to be driving a truck, you're going to be working in a warehouse,

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you're working in the office.

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You're actually going to become a technician.

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You all took these fundamentals so you could see what actually happens inside of the company

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and why we all do what we do.

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But the most important part was you're actually taking tests along the way.

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And even if it was, if it was an interplay, they're taking a test for that.

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If it was a word document, they were learning some type of word processing, they were actually

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taking tests.

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And so as a contractor, they were helping build the resume of the employees.

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And the thing that came back out of that was, you know, Cliff, it's one thing to be able

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to give someone a job.

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It's another thing to be able to point someone in a career path and then show them their

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accomplishments along the way.

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He said, I'll be honest with you.

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We don't do hardly any promoting for our jobs.

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People come to us.

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They happen to.

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Yeah.

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I mean, think about that.

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I mean, can you imagine you and I when we were, you know, at that point in life, we're

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like, I want education, but college just, I don't know.

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It's just not doing it for me.

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And somebody come by and say, how would you like to actually learn some skills?

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And if you learn them appropriately and you learn them with some precision, you're actually

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going to pass some industry certifications and you're going to start building your own

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portfolio of accomplishments.

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It's so powerful.

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It really is.

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And I think there's a, there's a, I have one core belief that is above all when it comes

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to training and it's, it's really about building that self-confidence too.

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That's it.

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That the statistic I always references, 85% of adults have low self-confidence.

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Yep.

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And, and why is that?

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And it's probably because they compare themselves to their peers.

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I'm not smart enough.

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I'm not good enough.

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And when you're on a path of growth, when you're on a path of learning, that's how you build

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that self-confidence.

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That's how you like, I can now go to that job site and actually perform that task.

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And I couldn't do that yesterday and I can do that today.

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Like that feels good.

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That makes me excited.

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That is absolutely right.

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Yeah.

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So I really applaud what you guys are doing.

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You know, it's bringing a new element to our industry that is so needed and there you might

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have people that'll come to the industry and go, I think I want to be involved in this.

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And they go through a course and then they realize, I don't know that I have that aptitude.

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Isn't it a much better opportunity to do that first before getting into the job and six

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months later, a year later going, I guess I didn't realize that this job actually involved

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all of this because that happens sometimes.

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Right?

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Yeah, totally.

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So now a person gets to be able to hop in and go, okay, let's see what this is.

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Everyone tells me what HVAC is.

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And then you've got people saying, well, that's actually not all that HVAC is.

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There's so many opportunities that you can do.

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And here are just some pieces of it.

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And so they might want to explore this career.

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So for people that are exploring the trades, I think this is an amazing way to hop in and

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see if it sparks your interest and your creativity.

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Yeah, it's so fun.

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And I mean, we've heard stories that young adults, 18, 19, 20, 21 year olds, they go

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home, they're playing their video games all night.

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Well, in between their matches while they're waiting for the loading screen, they hop over

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to Interplay Learning and they're like, I'm going to go fix a thermostat real quick.

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I'm going to go change a capacitor.

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And so it's just how they do it, how the younger generation is.

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It's just the way that they learn and the way that they experience.

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My son is 12 years old.

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He knows how to do VR better than I do.

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Absolutely.

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It's in bed into their learning skills.

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Exactly.

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Part of the curriculum that we're seeing in all aspects of education is virtual training

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classes.

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I mean, just think about it.

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When the COVID-19 pandemic happened, schools didn't shut down for very long.

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They were back in action doing what they do just virtually and digitally.

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And so we have to embrace these technologies and we have to promote these technologies

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because they're an additional tool.

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One of the biggest complaints we get from educators is I've got all this new stuff that

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I got to teach, but I don't have any new hours and I don't have any new help.

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So what do you want me to get rid of so that I can teach this new stuff?

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And with tools like Interplay, you don't do that.

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You keep teaching your curriculums.

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You just give all of your prep for them to do at home exactly like you're talking about.

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They're going to be playing on digital technology at home.

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Why not use it for the betterment of their career?

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Yeah.

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I mean, we hear the term flipped classroom a lot.

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How much can we get the foundational knowledge done when they're at home?

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When they come into the classroom, I can give them the best stuff.

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Think about all the things that even us, like I consider myself a GenXer.

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I think of all the things that I learn at home, at night, on my phone or on my computer.

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It could be things for fun.

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It could be things just to pass time.

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But a lot of times it's educational stuff.

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It's things that I'm doing at home that ends up making my day job better, right?

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More efficient.

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And so if I'm in school and I have an opportunity to still be entertained, but also getting

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that education, and now we're just compounding the curriculum that we're doing during the

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day, whether we're at a school or we're at a wholesale or we're at a contractor, we're

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prepped for that conversation that we're going to have with that real hands-on stuff.

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Nothing will ever replace a hands-on experience.

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But by golly, if you can build it into your brain before time, you can have your brain

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prepped for the sequence of operation.

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Then you get in front of it and you go, let's go.

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It's funny too because a lot of times with this on-the-job training, when I grew up,

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I worked for my dad, 15, 16 years old.

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And I'd sit there and I'd ask him, why?

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What's happening in this furnace box?

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What's in here?

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And my dad wasn't really a trainer.

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He's like, ah, it just works.

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And we hook this up here and hook this up here.

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And there was a lot of times when I went to ask why, but I never got the answer.

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So now the ability to learn some of that contextual and foundational knowledge.

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So when I'm on the job, I'm like, oh yeah, I know why this does this.

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I know how this works.

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It just, again, increases that self-confidence.

328
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Yeah.

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I still love to work on vehicles.

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There's a lot of things that's changed on vehicles.

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It's not stuff that I learned.

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It's not the stuff that I experienced.

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So what do I do before I go put my hands on that stuff?

334
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Yeah.

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I Google it or YouTube it, or I use some type of digital education so that I can get comfortable

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with it before I actually go physically do that.

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Yeah.

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And I think that's what's changed in education.

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In the past, a lot of times we would learn about something.

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We would see it first and then go study it.

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I think that's changed.

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We're very much in a design of modular education where we can get the pieces of information

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that we need at different times and still come to the same conclusion.

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A lot of people learn in different skill sets.

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So by being able to make that accessible, making it modular, we now have the opportunity

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to disperse our learning skills in a variety of different avenues.

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Yeah.

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And I love that too, because one of the concepts I always talk about too is kind of micro learning.

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I always hear contractors, we're so busy in the summer.

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I have no time to train.

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And I'm like, guess when you make the most mistakes, people?

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It's when you're busy.

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So just a five minute video in the morning, a 10 minute refresher course.

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Even if you kind of know, but maybe you remember something quick, you can be a little bit more

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efficient and be a little bit more confident on the job.

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Five to 10 minutes a day throughout the week, we're talking 30, 40, 50 minutes.

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We're not talking a ton of time, but it increases that confidence, increases that skill level.

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And back to your point, it feels more of like a career.

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Not a job.

360
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:41,320
Exactly.

361
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You know, when you're talking about hours and utilization of time, I've also talked

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to contractors that will utilize resources like this, because you're running all this

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through an LMS where you're tracking time and you're tracking how much the person is

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actually interactive with that educational experience.

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00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:03,040
I've talked to contractors and I've talked to schools that utilize that as part of their

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curriculum, right?

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You're going to have five hours of homework this week.

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00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,360
Or you could have five hours of pay time.

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It could be one, two hours pay time, whatever.

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And all you have to do is show me the transcript of your completed class.

371
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:18,520
Yeah.

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Boom.

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00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:20,520
Easy peasy.

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00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:21,520
Sign is done.

375
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:22,520
Easy peasy.

376
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:23,520
Absolutely.

377
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:24,520
All right.

378
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:30,520
So let's talk about the employment ready, job ready certificate programs.

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Certificate programs you have.

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00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:36,240
So you got HVAC, you've got plumbing, electrical, construction, multifamily, building maintenance,

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appliances.

382
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:42,840
How do people get in contact with Interplay to learn about integrating into their educational

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programs?

384
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:44,840
Sure.

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00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:45,840
Interplaylearning.com.

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We have a ton of information on there, depending on whether you're an educator or a contractor

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or in any of those verticals.

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We do free demonstrations.

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We give trial access so you can kind of kick the tires and play around and see if it fits

390
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:06,800
for you.

391
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:12,400
There's a lot of really fun use cases, but that use case of thinking about just helping

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someone in your community that maybe has not had a chance and giving them a chance for

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a career.

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There's a lot of feel good that can come from that use case too.

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Then at the end of a series of courses, go to HVAC excellence, get that certification.

396
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I mean, that's so powerful.

397
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All right.

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Dan Clapper, Interplay Learning.

399
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:32,760
Thank you so much for joining us today.

400
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:33,760
Awesome.

401
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:34,760
Thanks for having me.

402
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,960
Thank you so much for joining us today.

403
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:37,960
Awesome.

404
00:22:37,960 --> 00:23:04,960
Thanks for having me.