Welcome to the future technologies and innovations that sculpt our industry.
This episode brought to you by Interplay Learning, virtual reality training and education for
the skilled trades.
Learn more at interplaylearning.com.
All right, everyone, thank you so much for joining us once again on Did You Know?
The ESCO HVAC Podcast.
So this time we're hanging out with Dan Clapper, Marketing Director for Interplay Learning.
How are you, my friend?
I'm awesome.
How are you, Clifton?
I'm doing well.
You know, we keep talking about ways that we can help educators, ways that we can help
contractors, ways that we can help even our technical trainers from manufacturers, right?
There's a lot of ways that technology is changing the way we approach education.
And Interplay is right at the heart of doing technological advancements and technological
opportunities.
And we've recently done a partnership on that to make sure that we're preparing industries
and not just our own, but people who have came from other industries that's looking
for a fresh start and looking at HVAC and they're looking at refrigeration and electrical
and they're looking at all these different pieces of the trades going, I really would
like to have a piece of that.
And where do I begin?
So let's talk a little bit about Interplay and let's talk about things that are going
on in the digital education side.
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, I think, you know, one of the fun things that we do at Interplay that's kind of our
differentiator is simulations.
Yes.
Right?
So we create a 3D environment, just like a video game where you can go in and you can
practice.
You can practice using a multimeter, practice, you know, doing service or maintenance or
troubleshooting.
And we hear time and time again, like, it's actually fun.
This is a fun way to learn.
Yeah.
You know, we've got people that love doing it.
So, you know, that's the secret sauce of Interplay anyway.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because when we look at like digital technology and how much that's changed and how much the
whole 3D world is evolving, I mean, it's like evolving at a crazy fast speed, like so many
things in the industries.
But that piece of what we do and the way that we utilize that for training is a really,
really, really cool function.
Because if we say we're taking someone who is new into working with their hands, you
know, that could be a high schooler that's just now going into an HVAC program.
That could be an experienced person from another industry that's looking at the trades going,
man, you know what?
A lot of people lost their jobs and didn't have things to do during the pandemic.
But these people were like out busy making money.
And I want a piece of that.
So where do I begin?
And what can I do to make sure that I'm doing it safe?
Because if I've never touched electrical meter and a motor before, do I really want to get
my hands in there first or do I want to virtually do that?
Yeah.
And it's super fun.
We like even in a school setting or like in a contractor shop, if I can send someone through
a simulation five or 10 times before they play around with the equipment in my shop,
you know, number one, they're going to be safer.
Number two, they're going to actually kind of have a baseline knowledge of what they're
even looking at.
And three, there's less chance of them burning out the controls and stuff on the equipment
in your shop.
And that's a big plus.
You don't need to let the smoke out.
All right.
We can we can virtually do that so we can actually see what's going on.
And we're not talking about just HVAC, right?
We're talking about HVAC.
We're talking about the commercial side of HVAC.
We're talking about plumbing.
We're talking about electrical.
We're talking about multifamily maintenance.
We're talking about facilities maintenance.
We're talking about safety.
We're talking about solar.
And we're also talking about hospitality fundamentals.
Right.
Yeah, totally.
So and you guys have released a lot.
Yeah.
And I think again, to your point, like we're seeing a lot of career exploration, like people
are taking this to the, you know, to the job fairs or the are the high schools or the,
you know, the local community events and, you know, giving kids an option like, hey,
look at this.
This field is actually fun to get into.
You can you can play around in a simulation and you can go through a problem solving process
and actually figure things out.
Like, you know, it just gives a different perspective of what people might originally
think about the trades.
Absolutely.
And you're also working with even like some of the equipment manufacturers to be able
to put together the simulations on like real pieces of equipment, not just, you know, like
theoretical designs of things.
We're actually diving into functional pieces of equipment and functional components to
get an in-depth understanding of what that's actually going to look like once you get out
into the field.
Yeah.
We we partner with some of the major manufacturers out there.
I actually just spent a whole week down at Dykens corporate headquarters and we build
simulations for them.
Down at the learning center.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
I'll be anxious to see those.
That's like one of my favorite products.
So when we start talking about these educational opportunities, let's talk about who the primary
market is for.
Yeah.
So, you know, I hear from we we have, I don't know, two thousand contractors we deal with
at least that, you know, they they struggle with hiring qualified technicians.
Right.
Absolutely.
A lot of a lot of people retiring.
There's just there's more coming through the trade schools, but there's still not enough.
So what's happening is a lot of these contractors are becoming trade schools themselves.
They have to keep people in house.
So these could be, you know, kids out of high school or people in their 20 or 30s, 40s that
are looking for a career change.
And a lot of times these are people that maybe don't have the best, you know, haven't had
the best opportunities in life.
They maybe had a tough home life or they immigrated to the country or they dropped out of college
or like we're talking people that are maybe making minimum wage or barely taking care
of their family.
And through having an in-house career development program, you're giving them a path, a career
and literally changing their lives.
And that's why we love to do it.
You know, I keep I keep going back to this conversation that I'm starting to believe
that every person in the HVAC and just in training in general, like have servant hearts,
like we all want to help people become better.
Right.
It's like we get a kick out of opening opportunities and doors for people to give them the tools
to be successful.
And you're right.
We don't have the capacity in our vocational programs to keep up with the demand that we
now have for people wanting to be in this industry.
Like we hear all the time from our schools, you know, I've got 15 seats available.
I typically will get, you know, 18 or 20 applications this year.
I've got 300.
Yeah, and it's insane.
It's absolutely insane.
So we're actually turning away people who want to be in the field.
And so even at our conference this year, we had a huge increase in the amount of contractor
technical trainers that are building their programs.
They're coming to HVAC excellence and ESCO going, OK, I want to put together a program
and I need the curriculum and I need to have an outline.
And we go, well, we really help with it, like the outline side of things.
And we talk about, you know, the the principles that you need to be teaching.
We talk about the competencies and the task list.
And then it's going to be up to you to decide what curriculum is going to work best for
your environment.
And so in the schools, we can use Interplay like for homework in particularly, man.
That is like so good, because if we're going to be doing a hands on class, we can go, all
right, we're going to be using a meter on a motor tomorrow.
Tonight, you're going to go home and you're going to do this for a few times on your own
before you get here.
When we get to the contractor, the contractor is trying to do on the job training as well.
So they're wanting to get that exact same educational concepts in there.
They want to make sure that you see this stuff before you actually sit down in class and
work with it or before you're in a customer's building and you're working on this going,
OK, I'm going to try not to burn this place down.
Exactly.
So you get to actually experiment with that.
And so what we've been doing is we've been helping make those connections.
And then now we also have coming back from our educators as well as our distributor educators
and our contractor educators going, OK.
So we're teaching this stuff.
We want to make sure that they're retaining that knowledge as they're going through these
courses and how can we do that?
And so you and I, you know, right, Interplay and HVAC excellence got together and we decided,
well, let's just attach certifications for that and let's see if they're retaining this
knowledge and that way we can start tracking that.
And so as someone's taking the courses, they're able to then go back and, all right, let's
see if I learned everything that I was supposed to learn.
If I did, sweet.
I'm going to walk away now with a certification showing that I've actually retained this knowledge.
That's powerful.
It's so powerful.
And, you know, I dropped out of college twice is the story I like to tell people.
I never complete them.
And I always had this thing like, man, I, you know, I wish I actually did complete.
I got something.
And just in the last year, I got a couple of certifications myself.
And I tell you what, it feels good.
It's rewarding.
I've been working hard for a long time and now I actually have proof that I can go to
people and say, by the way, I actually can back up what I say.
Yeah.
This is not just a bunch of good words.
This, you know, this is proof.
I actually do know what I'm talking about.
Yeah.
And it's a very, very powerful thing to help someone achieve that.
You know, one of the really cool podcasts I did a while back was with a contractor that
focuses on recruitment by building the resume for their employees.
And I was like, well, tell me about this.
What are you doing?
It's like, well, we're building a training path for our employees so that when someone
comes into the industry, no matter what role they're going to end up in our company, they
are all going to do the same training and they utilize interplay training for every
person coming into the company.
It didn't matter if you're going to be driving a truck, you're going to be working in a warehouse,
you're working in the office.
You're actually going to become a technician.
You all took these fundamentals so you could see what actually happens inside of the company
and why we all do what we do.
But the most important part was you're actually taking tests along the way.
And even if it was, if it was an interplay, they're taking a test for that.
If it was a word document, they were learning some type of word processing, they were actually
taking tests.
And so as a contractor, they were helping build the resume of the employees.
And the thing that came back out of that was, you know, Cliff, it's one thing to be able
to give someone a job.
It's another thing to be able to point someone in a career path and then show them their
accomplishments along the way.
He said, I'll be honest with you.
We don't do hardly any promoting for our jobs.
People come to us.
They happen to.
Yeah.
I mean, think about that.
I mean, can you imagine you and I when we were, you know, at that point in life, we're
like, I want education, but college just, I don't know.
It's just not doing it for me.
And somebody come by and say, how would you like to actually learn some skills?
And if you learn them appropriately and you learn them with some precision, you're actually
going to pass some industry certifications and you're going to start building your own
portfolio of accomplishments.
It's so powerful.
It really is.
And I think there's a, there's a, I have one core belief that is above all when it comes
to training and it's, it's really about building that self-confidence too.
That's it.
That the statistic I always references, 85% of adults have low self-confidence.
Yep.
And, and why is that?
And it's probably because they compare themselves to their peers.
I'm not smart enough.
I'm not good enough.
And when you're on a path of growth, when you're on a path of learning, that's how you build
that self-confidence.
That's how you like, I can now go to that job site and actually perform that task.
And I couldn't do that yesterday and I can do that today.
Like that feels good.
That makes me excited.
That is absolutely right.
Yeah.
So I really applaud what you guys are doing.
You know, it's bringing a new element to our industry that is so needed and there you might
have people that'll come to the industry and go, I think I want to be involved in this.
And they go through a course and then they realize, I don't know that I have that aptitude.
Isn't it a much better opportunity to do that first before getting into the job and six
months later, a year later going, I guess I didn't realize that this job actually involved
all of this because that happens sometimes.
Right?
Yeah, totally.
So now a person gets to be able to hop in and go, okay, let's see what this is.
Everyone tells me what HVAC is.
And then you've got people saying, well, that's actually not all that HVAC is.
There's so many opportunities that you can do.
And here are just some pieces of it.
And so they might want to explore this career.
So for people that are exploring the trades, I think this is an amazing way to hop in and
see if it sparks your interest and your creativity.
Yeah, it's so fun.
And I mean, we've heard stories that young adults, 18, 19, 20, 21 year olds, they go
home, they're playing their video games all night.
Well, in between their matches while they're waiting for the loading screen, they hop over
to Interplay Learning and they're like, I'm going to go fix a thermostat real quick.
I'm going to go change a capacitor.
And so it's just how they do it, how the younger generation is.
It's just the way that they learn and the way that they experience.
My son is 12 years old.
He knows how to do VR better than I do.
Absolutely.
It's in bed into their learning skills.
Exactly.
Part of the curriculum that we're seeing in all aspects of education is virtual training
classes.
I mean, just think about it.
When the COVID-19 pandemic happened, schools didn't shut down for very long.
They were back in action doing what they do just virtually and digitally.
And so we have to embrace these technologies and we have to promote these technologies
because they're an additional tool.
One of the biggest complaints we get from educators is I've got all this new stuff that
I got to teach, but I don't have any new hours and I don't have any new help.
So what do you want me to get rid of so that I can teach this new stuff?
And with tools like Interplay, you don't do that.
You keep teaching your curriculums.
You just give all of your prep for them to do at home exactly like you're talking about.
They're going to be playing on digital technology at home.
Why not use it for the betterment of their career?
Yeah.
I mean, we hear the term flipped classroom a lot.
How much can we get the foundational knowledge done when they're at home?
When they come into the classroom, I can give them the best stuff.
Think about all the things that even us, like I consider myself a GenXer.
I think of all the things that I learn at home, at night, on my phone or on my computer.
It could be things for fun.
It could be things just to pass time.
But a lot of times it's educational stuff.
It's things that I'm doing at home that ends up making my day job better, right?
More efficient.
And so if I'm in school and I have an opportunity to still be entertained, but also getting
that education, and now we're just compounding the curriculum that we're doing during the
day, whether we're at a school or we're at a wholesale or we're at a contractor, we're
prepped for that conversation that we're going to have with that real hands-on stuff.
Nothing will ever replace a hands-on experience.
But by golly, if you can build it into your brain before time, you can have your brain
prepped for the sequence of operation.
Then you get in front of it and you go, let's go.
It's funny too because a lot of times with this on-the-job training, when I grew up,
I worked for my dad, 15, 16 years old.
And I'd sit there and I'd ask him, why?
What's happening in this furnace box?
What's in here?
And my dad wasn't really a trainer.
He's like, ah, it just works.
And we hook this up here and hook this up here.
And there was a lot of times when I went to ask why, but I never got the answer.
So now the ability to learn some of that contextual and foundational knowledge.
So when I'm on the job, I'm like, oh yeah, I know why this does this.
I know how this works.
It just, again, increases that self-confidence.
Yeah.
I still love to work on vehicles.
There's a lot of things that's changed on vehicles.
It's not stuff that I learned.
It's not the stuff that I experienced.
So what do I do before I go put my hands on that stuff?
Yeah.
I Google it or YouTube it, or I use some type of digital education so that I can get comfortable
with it before I actually go physically do that.
Yeah.
And I think that's what's changed in education.
In the past, a lot of times we would learn about something.
We would see it first and then go study it.
I think that's changed.
We're very much in a design of modular education where we can get the pieces of information
that we need at different times and still come to the same conclusion.
A lot of people learn in different skill sets.
So by being able to make that accessible, making it modular, we now have the opportunity
to disperse our learning skills in a variety of different avenues.
Yeah.
And I love that too, because one of the concepts I always talk about too is kind of micro learning.
I always hear contractors, we're so busy in the summer.
I have no time to train.
And I'm like, guess when you make the most mistakes, people?
It's when you're busy.
So just a five minute video in the morning, a 10 minute refresher course.
Even if you kind of know, but maybe you remember something quick, you can be a little bit more
efficient and be a little bit more confident on the job.
Five to 10 minutes a day throughout the week, we're talking 30, 40, 50 minutes.
We're not talking a ton of time, but it increases that confidence, increases that skill level.
And back to your point, it feels more of like a career.
Not a job.
Exactly.
You know, when you're talking about hours and utilization of time, I've also talked
to contractors that will utilize resources like this, because you're running all this
through an LMS where you're tracking time and you're tracking how much the person is
actually interactive with that educational experience.
I've talked to contractors and I've talked to schools that utilize that as part of their
curriculum, right?
You're going to have five hours of homework this week.
Or you could have five hours of pay time.
It could be one, two hours pay time, whatever.
And all you have to do is show me the transcript of your completed class.
Yeah.
Boom.
Easy peasy.
Sign is done.
Easy peasy.
Absolutely.
All right.
So let's talk about the employment ready, job ready certificate programs.
Certificate programs you have.
So you got HVAC, you've got plumbing, electrical, construction, multifamily, building maintenance,
appliances.
How do people get in contact with Interplay to learn about integrating into their educational
programs?
Sure.
Interplaylearning.com.
We have a ton of information on there, depending on whether you're an educator or a contractor
or in any of those verticals.
We do free demonstrations.
We give trial access so you can kind of kick the tires and play around and see if it fits
for you.
There's a lot of really fun use cases, but that use case of thinking about just helping
someone in your community that maybe has not had a chance and giving them a chance for
a career.
There's a lot of feel good that can come from that use case too.
Then at the end of a series of courses, go to HVAC excellence, get that certification.
I mean, that's so powerful.
All right.
Dan Clapper, Interplay Learning.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Awesome.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Awesome.
Thanks for having me.