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All right, everyone.
Thank you for joining us again on Did You Know?
The Esco HVAC Podcast.
So we're hanging out with Angie Snow here at the National HVACR Education Conference.
We spent a lot of time learning about new technologies.
We've talked about refrigerant transitions.
We've talked about so many things that are just escalating in the industry, especially
even when we talk about technology and how fast technology is evolving around us.
But there are a lot of things that we sometimes forget when we're focusing on just the skill
sets that we know, because I know like for my personal self, when I came from the field
into the classroom, I thought, boy, I'm going to be a great educator.
I'm really good at teaching people how to fix things.
And then I got into the classroom and realized, wow, I really don't know how to speak to someone
that doesn't know anything about what I want to talk about.
And so sometimes it's a matter of learning how to communicate in different communication
styles and forming relationships.
And I think you're at the very forefront of this.
Right.
Yeah, this is, you're absolutely right.
It comes down to your ability to communicate, not just to give information, but actually
to connect because the best communicators are able to make that connection.
You think back to the people who have influenced you, and really that's what a leader is.
A leader is someone who has the ability to influence others and people want to follow
them because of their ability to influence.
And someone that I've been mentoring under is John Maxwell.
Oh my goodness.
One of the best.
There's someone to study by.
And so I have, the last couple of years, I've really been harnessing and learning from him
and something about him that he's taught for years is there are five levels of leadership.
And he has a book on this if anyone wants to dive deeper into this.
But with the five levels of leadership, the first level is really not even a level at
all.
It's the level of position.
You're a leader because that's your title.
That's what you've been given.
So if you think about educators, right, you're a teacher.
You are there and people are there just because you have that title and they have to be there.
So true.
And they show up and that works in any organization as well.
You probably can think of someone that was a level one leader that they didn't energize
you.
You didn't really want to follow them, but you had to because that was their title.
That was their position.
Yeah.
Right.
And the second level is the level of, it's a relationship level.
They're there because you give them permission to lead you because you like them.
You start to have a relationship with them.
A level two leader finds out about you.
They might know something about your family.
They start to connect with you a little bit and you start to learn a little bit more about
them.
They know your strengths.
They know your weaknesses and you really like your level two leaders.
A level three leader is the production level.
You follow them because of what they've actually produced.
You see it.
You see what they've done.
You can see the impact and the influence that they've made.
So you think about educators and what impact have they made?
What difference have they made?
And a lot of times, I don't know how many people know this.
I used to be a second grade teacher.
I've heard Howard's mentioned that before.
Before HVAC.
It wasn't until my second or third year teaching, I would have parents like, I can't wait to
get my student in your class because they've seen.
Yeah, they've seen the outcomes.
Seen what I've been able to do.
And so they're excited to have this year results.
A level four leader is someone who develops people.
They are, they are building their replacements, right?
They're investing in you.
So you think about these HVAC educators who train these students so well that they could
come back and teach them.
They can take their job.
Yeah, right.
They know you're doing a great job, right?
So they're developing people.
They're investing in them, giving them training, giving them direction so much so that they're,
you know, they could step into that role.
And then the fifth level of leadership is that pinnacle.
People follow you just because of who you are as a person.
You've done so much to develop people, to train them.
Like you stand on your own merits.
People just, you're kind of that icon, right?
And so when we think about what level of leader are we, and as educators, we are leaders because
we are influencing.
So what level of leader are you?
And think about some of the most impactful leaders you've had in your life.
I mean, I'm sure you can think of many.
I'm sitting here imagining them right now.
And I hadn't thought of that perspective before because we think of leadership as either you're
a leader or a follower, but that is not necessary.
That is not true at all.
When we think of leadership, we can actually look at it as what type of leader and then
start looking at what were those character traits of leadership that I admired and maybe
where am I?
What steps do I need to progress to a new level of leadership?
That self-awareness.
And you may be at different levels with different people in your organization, right?
There may be people that you're not as connected with.
You haven't had enough interactions with them to really be able to add value to them and
build and develop them.
So it's an ongoing journey.
You're sending me down a new rabbit hole.
You realize that.
I can't stay away from this one now.
That was it.
I'm thinking about, okay, where am I?
And that's going to turn out, okay, where am I?
Where's my friends?
Where's the people around me?
It's a fun thing to think about.
And honestly, in the quest for self-development and professional development, personal development,
it's thinking about how can I raise my value?
How can I raise my value by adding value to others?
Absolutely.
Become a more valuable asset when you're adding value to other people.
Sure.
If I think about why are educators at this conference, there's 1,200 people here all
for the same reason, because they want to have professional development so they can
pass that professional development on to someone else.
And so now we have the opportunity to go, okay, that's great.
We love that.
That's a great technical thing to do.
Now let's talk about some delivery.
Are there ways that we can improve that so that you can take this technical, this knowledge
that you're comfortable with and maybe focus on some aspects that could be a little uncomfortable,
but yet if you focus on those, they can yield a better outcome because it's all really about
better outcomes.
It really is.
Yeah.
And understanding and knowing what that goal is, what is that outcome?
And then almost kind of like building it backwards, like, okay, that's the outcome that I want.
So what's the intention that I need to bring to get to that outcome?
And how can I build a path and use language and words and communicate to get there?
Oh yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I wish I would have said it in that class.
Because I can see it.
It's very, very clear of what you can do to improve that outcome.
We've done some classes before on how to analyze student assessments to improve outcomes.
Well, what about ourselves?
Are there things that we can do to self-evaluate, to recognize the things that we can improve
on to better deliver the content?
Because there's a lot of content to deliver in this transition of technology and this
transition of refrigerants.
And we all are really doing the same thing.
I think that's been the most interesting thing about all of these podcasts is everyone has
the same motivation to do good for others and to give to them and help pass that information
on and to see somebody be successful.
So what if we could just learn another little tool to be more successful at that?
I think everyone here would want that.
Yeah, it's improving your ability to impact others because you've done the work on yourself.
Yeah.
Another concept that John Maxwell teaches is 360 degree leadership.
And what that is is thinking about whatever position you're in.
Some people are like, well, I'm not a leader.
It's like, yes, you are.
Everyone is a leader.
Obviously, if you have people that report to you or your students, you lead down, right?
We spend time leading them, but we also can lead up.
Who do we report to?
Who can we help become better at what they do because of our leadership abilities?
How can we enhance that and help them do better at their job?
And then you lead sideways, right?
You lead your colleagues, your teamies.
I mean, half the beautiful thing about this conference is watching them teach each other
and network with each other and lead and learn from each other.
And what are you doing?
And so leading sideways is a beautiful concept.
But the one that people forget the most about is leading right in the middle.
And you really should spend 50% of your time leading yourself because you're the hardest
person to lead.
You don't call yourself one.
I've never heard that before in my life.
What are you talking about?
So learning to lead within and lead yourself and improve yourself will inspire and motivate
other people to develop themselves as well.
And you really can't give what you don't have.
Yes, exactly.
Man, and you just brought up a point that I guess I hadn't focused on enough.
So like leading up, you know, one of the struggles that educators always have is how do I effectively
communicate with my administration?
You know, how do I effectively communicate what I need in this program, but also enable
them for their goals?
And sometimes we forget that maybe it's actually on us to understand that path a little bit
better.
Absolutely.
And you said it earlier.
You said, you know, you got all these people that have different communication styles,
right?
If you're familiar with the disc assessments, disc are behavioral styles, D, I, S, C, you
realize that people are either outgoing or introverted.
And then people are either people focused and they love to talk to people and they love
to be in the interaction with people or they're more task focused.
Someone fits in one of these quadrants of, you know, a D would be someone who is very
direct, they're very task focused and they're very outgoing.
They get stuff done and really only 3% of the population is a D, which is really interesting.
Eyes are influential and they are very people focused and very outgoing.
Your S's are more steady, more supportive.
They're people focused and they're also, but they're introverted.
69% of the population.
I get that.
A lot of our technicians, a lot of our office staff, a lot of that, you know, a lot of our
instructors, frankly, your S's and then C's are very task focused and introverted.
So they're not as people focused and that's about 17% of the population.
Those are your accountants.
Those are your...
You're saying that's my wife.
That's my wife that controls the accountants.
You know, I can probably guess that that's your wife because you are totally an I and
eyes are opposite of C's.
And so they...
Oh my gosh.
Yes, they attract, which, you know, you think about people who have those qualities that
you admire that you don't have and you like...
You migrate to that.
Yeah.
You do.
And so understanding the communication style of the person that is leading you and knowing
how they like to be communicated.
If I was communicating to a C, I would go in with the facts, the details.
I would go in with a lot of the, you know, I would be...
Specifics and analytics.
The analytics be all the compliances and make sure that they...
I'm communicating that with them to help them do their job better.
And so you think about the people, regardless of you're leading up sideways down, understanding
their communication style is key so that you can communicate to them in their style.
I get that.
I've actually been working on that personally and that's not an easy thing to do sometimes
because then it becomes not just a self-evaluation, it becomes an evaluation of those around you
that you interact with regularly.
And so it's almost, it almost becomes math.
Because you start looking at someone going, I know what you are and I know what I need
to do to be able to talk to you better.
And it is intriguing because it's very systematical when you start looking at it.
And I always thought people were just people, everyone was just unusual and they had their
own eccentric qualities.
And then you start finding that actually there is a lot of systematic orientation to us.
And if we can understand that, we can remove barriers much easier.
Yeah, absolutely.
And just looking at your students and learning about them, really find a way to connect with
them.
What do you have in common?
You most likely have a lot.
Something, yeah, absolutely.
Something in common that you can connect with, whether it's family or hobbies or something.
And then bring that into your lesson and bring that into your communication with them.
It's going to make your lesson that much more engaging for them because you've applied
it and made it personal.
Using their name often, people love to hear their name.
The name that your name, the sound of your name is like the most magical sound and word
in any language.
People just love to hear their name.
So be recognized using their name, recognizing them.
That connection is the first key.
Being able to connect with them and then asking really good questions to learn more about
them and let them, you know, once they feel that connection with you, they'll start to
open up to you.
And then that gives you insights as to, okay, these are ways I can serve this person and
help this person because I see what they value and I can add more value to them in those
ways.
That's a pretty powerful word that you just used.
And I think that most people in education are of servant hearts, of servant nature.
And that's really what we're doing.
We may be doing it with technical information, but we truly are serving people and understanding
the best way to deliver the content, even understanding our own content delivery method
because sometimes it changes as we mature.
Sometimes we learn new ways to deliver the things that we're already comfortable with
that has a greater impact.
And so I think it's very important that we do that self-evaluation.
Do you have any good tools for doing that self-evaluation, even like the disk analysis?
What are some good resources that an educator could use if they're listening to this and
they go, okay, I know my wife has been hounding me for years.
I need to do this.
But now my podcast is telling me I need to do this too.
Where does somebody begin?
I think it's fascinating.
The disk assessment has been something that I've learned over the years and now I'm certified
in reading those and teaching all about that with the John Maxlow system.
And so it's been something that I think once you start to learn about it, it just like
things start to make sense.
Like you said, people aren't just people.
They are people that have certain behaviors and sometimes they're programmed that way,
but sometimes they just come that way.
Like I have four kids and all four of them are different.
And it's learning how to communicate differently and effectively with each of my four children.
And now I'm getting in-laws, a son-in-law and I have to learn his style too.
Yes, have to readapt a little bit.
Yeah.
And don't, you don't have to be perfect all the time.
That sometimes is something that I struggle with is like trying to have that perfect conversation
or fit the mold.
You're going to have failures.
You're going to mess it up, but just learn and take note.
It's that awareness factor.
What worked and what didn't work.
And we can do that in our classes too.
You know, what landed well with that class or what was just a total flop and then try
to either avoid the flops and recreate the good moments.
But you'll notice what resonates with each of your students.
If you take the time to pay attention to that and observe.
I've heard educators before and I've had this in some of my own classes, but it's definitely
something that, that has resonated before that I didn't particularly understand, but
I'm starting to understand more is I do a great job delivering this content and I do
the same content and some classes do great and some don't.
And I just don't know what I'm doing wrong.
I mean, could it be simply a matter of evaluating your students and having an understanding
going into the conversation?
What can work better for this group of students that might not have worked for others?
Absolutely.
And you're going to have a different set of students.
I mean, regularly, regularly.
And so it's, it's taking the time to figure out the best way to connect, ask questions,
listen, and then just really pay attention to words, to the words that they're using.
You know, I can't do this or I shouldn't do this.
And also pay attention to the words you use about this.
I was talking in my session earlier today about, you know, you're, you're getting ready
to teach a new concept.
And it's like, all right, everyone, this is going to be a tough one.
This one's going to be hard.
We've all got to really focus here.
And you're using this language of it's tough and it's hard and it's going to be a difficult
thing to do.
Right.
It's like, Ooh, I, they're like, that is a mind you're setting up their mindset to already
feel like it's going to be this hard.
Yeah.
Versus, Hey, I'm so excited to teach you about this new concept today.
This has been a challenging one that is really going to get you on your toes.
And once you get this down, you will, you know, it's the language you use as an educator.
It's all about the word choice, the delivery.
And so sometimes your, your class will re you know, they're going to feed off of that
energy.
Absolutely.
And so being aware of the words you use as an educator.
Yeah, definitely.
It's a hard topic, but do you need to paint all that language around it?
Or can you paint the, the beautiful language of this is such a cool concept that you guys
get to learn today.
Who's to say it's hard.
You're labeling it as a hard concept and they might pick it right up before it's even delivered.
Like you said, like this generation is the, this coming up, like stuff that might be really
hard for us might be a piece of cake.
It might be so simple to them.
And then we do it, we deliver it and they go, well, that wasn't hard.
And I go, Oh, did I waste those minutes prepping you?
Exactly.
And so being careful of the language that we use as educators and leaders and influencers
to, to, to make it, you know, the way we talk about our experiences, other people and ourselves,
it matters and it's heard.
And so those are all things within our control.
The words are in our control.
We've just got to wrangle in those thoughts and make sure the right words come out.
It takes practice.
I think that's the title of this podcast.
Angie Snow, thank you so much for joining us.
I hope you have a wonderful time here at the conference and I appreciate you hanging out
with me today.
Thanks.
It's been an honor.
I'm closer than ever before.