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Welcome back to Teaching the Unteachables, where we dive into teaching and learning methodologies

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for professionals like you.

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This episode brought to you by HVAC Consulting Services, LLC.

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Learn more about JoJo the HVAC Man on YouTube at JoeJoeTheHVACMan.

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Alright everyone, thank you for joining Did You Know? the ESCO HVAC Podcast.

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So we're spending some time at the National HVACR Education Conference.

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And right now we're hanging out with my good friend Joey Henderson.

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How are you, sir?

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Good, sir, thank you.

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Oh, this has been so much fun, hasn't it?

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Great.

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I had a great time.

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Excellent.

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So let's dive into some passions of JoJo the HVAC Man, right?

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We know that you love so many things about this industry.

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I do.

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And you bring a wonderful, unique training perspective.

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And I love that.

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I love when we present things in a different, digestible manner because not everyone learns

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the same.

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Nope.

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That's right.

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So we have to be able to give options and create options for delivering content.

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And I just love when we bring in new examples of that.

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And you do that all the time.

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Yeah, thanks.

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Let's spend a little bit of time talking about the, let's call this the yes and no of airflow.

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Yes, love it.

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Absolutely.

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Because you dive into airflow quite often in classes.

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And let's think about some of the things that we should be doing and think about some of

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the things that we shouldn't be doing when we're starting to talk about and diagnose

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airflow scenarios.

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Yeah, you know, so just a little quick why it's a passion of mine because I'm, you know,

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I've been in it 30 years and 15 of that was a tech rep for two different manufacturers.

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And a lot of the issues I went on was airflow.

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And even more important, it was air distribution.

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Oh yeah, definitely.

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And a lot of people didn't quite understand the difference between those two and the importance

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of it.

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Yeah.

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So I began to dig deeper and deeper into airflow and started becoming an airhead.

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I love that.

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That needs to be a sticker.

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Yeah.

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Airhead.

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I stole that from somebody else, but I'll take it.

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But yeah, so and I realized that most technicians, well-meaning and installers just didn't know

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any better.

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Yeah.

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They didn't understand it.

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So, you know, one of the, of course, the biggest issues in my industry down in my area was

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the ever, verb-er-ial, is that the right word?

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A traditional sheet metal box with the octopus coming out of it.

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And they couldn't understand why that was a problem, because air is getting somewhere.

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Right.

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They just think we're moving it.

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We're moving it.

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We're getting it out of here.

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The fan's turning, you know, the air, you know, and sometimes you wouldn't see it really

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be affected, not necessarily freezing up a coil.

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So, but what I was trying to get them to understand, like, so now we get into, okay, so we get

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into these scenarios now where more and more, I see a lot of companies, they have a good

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startup procedure.

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They use the static tips and they stick them in there.

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But what they don't understand is that if the air isn't moving around, isn't getting

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out of the box, then they'll get a low static pressure reading.

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And they think they're good, because the air is just pulling up inside that box like Eddie's

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over a river.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So true.

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So one of the things I've tried to help them understand is that you can't use static pressure

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readings in a sheet metal box like that.

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It's not effective.

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It's not going to be accurate.

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And you can take it in five different places and get five different readings.

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Oh, there you go.

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So what I began to try to explain to them is that, you know, use some other tools to

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see, to show it's a problem, like do an amp draw on the motor.

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Right, right, right, right.

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You know, see what kind of load it's under.

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Yeah, that'll tell you a lot.

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They didn't even think about that.

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And then, you know, so my, my, my no is don't do that no more.

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There you go.

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Don't do the box.

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And, you know, my yes is at bare minimum, take a square it around, which I'm amazed

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a lot of people don't even know what that is, which I just blows my mind.

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But I've had a lot of comments from my YouTube training.

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People ask me, what, what is a square it around?

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So square it around is basically a funnel.

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Yeah.

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Well, instead of being round at the top, it's square at the top.

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Yep.

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And square it around at the bottom.

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And so we're taking a square dimension and we're smoothly funneling that air flow down

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to the round.

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And then it gets to straighten out.

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Exactly.

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And so bare minimum, if you got a box and you're like, well, I don't have enough space

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and so understand I have tore out and installed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of jobs

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in tight attics and tight crawl spaces.

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Right.

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And where you would think, well, it's impossible to do, you know, a trunk line or whatever,

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you can do a square it around and around Y and split your trunk line left and right.

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And the distance between the square it around around Y is roughly about two, two and a half

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feet.

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Oh, sure.

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Well, if you've got that for a box, you've got that for a square it around and around

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Y.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And the return acts the same way, but we've got to oversize the return compared to supply

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to keep it quieter and to keep the velocity down.

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Definitely.

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And that's another thing too, is a lot of people don't realize that when they start

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putting in these high static boxes and bullhead tees, if you've got a constant CFM motor that's

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ramping up like a hurricane to overcome it.

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Exactly, to overcome, yeah.

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Well, now you kill your filtration.

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Yeah, sure.

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Because a lot of people know that air filters are designed off of velocity as well as CFM.

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And if it's going too fast, try to catch a, you know, tell people all the time, I said,

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you know, catch a baseball in your glove and a normal whatever, 80, 90 miles an hour

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pitch, right?

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Okay.

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And then you can use a cannon and try to catch it and blow a hole right through the glove.

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There you go.

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And if you're screaming air right through the darn filter, it's not going to catch all

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the particles it's supposed to catch.

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So it can't do what it's supposed to do.

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It can't do what it's supposed to do.

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And especially these really nice latronic air cleaners, well, they got a low pressure

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drop as long as you have the right velocity going through.

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Right?

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Indeed.

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And so that was, you know, so take off the boxes, do a square it around and around Y.

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The other, in just doing a lot of studying and looking at manual D and flexed uculators,

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we know that when they measure the airflow through flexed duct, it's put on the machine

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straight and tight.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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When those things can straight flex that.

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So, so I said, you know what, if you go up one size from your, what you would think

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of your design pipes.

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Yes.

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Your design metal round straight pipe size.

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Yeah.

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Just go up the next level.

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So I ran, I ate some, and I realized we could get real specific on sevens and nines and

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elevens and I'm just trying to keep it simple.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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Keep it big.

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So, you know, I never, I stopped running sixes.

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So I ran all eight inch flex supplies with a hard metal trunk line.

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And anytime you take a turn with flex, just put a hard elbow, you know, stay away from

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the kink flex.

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Right.

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Smooth it out.

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Right.

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So every run I would order two elbows.

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Right.

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Right.

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One for the takeoff.

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One horizontal, one vertical.

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Right.

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So if I came off my trunk line straight and tight, okay, I didn't need an elbow.

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Yeah.

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But I had an elbow on every single floor boot coming out or every ceiling register.

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Absolutely.

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Going in.

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Yep.

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And then we avoided the kink and then the, you know, the restrictions.

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Sure.

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If you do that, take your return flex and then remember return is supposed to be bigger

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anyway to keep that noise down and keep the velocity down.

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So a lot of guys would do a, they would come out with a 16 inch pipe and then they would

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wire it off to two 14 flexes.

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Well that'd be like reducing it down to two 12 inch hard pipe.

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I see.

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So I said keep the same size flex.

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So it goes 16 hard pipe to two 16 flexes.

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And now that's equivalent as if you did go to two 14 hard pipes.

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Okay.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I see where you're going with that.

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You know, a lot of people don't realize the restriction rate of flexed up in comparison

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to what we typically calculated with metal.

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And the bigger the flex, the less airflow capacity it has because of the ridges.

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Right.

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Absolutely.

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Even if you pull it straight and tight and I tried to pull it off the other side.

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Yeah.

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So tight, but still you stick your hand in there.

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Yeah.

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There's still turbulence.

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Big deep violence and it causes the valleys cause the turbulence and you got to account

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for that.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah.

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That's a great perspective to sit and look at is, you know, it's a good time to challenge

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some of the norms of the industry.

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Isn't it?

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I love to give this illustration and someday I'm going to create this in real world.

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But you know, if you took, I always say like, you know, the difference between a bullhead

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T and a Y, an idea of how the air flows.

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I always think of air as a bunch of cars moving through the ductwork.

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Yeah, there you go.

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It's just a big old highway across the show.

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Yeah.

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You can visualize that very easily.

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Yeah.

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So go to your look, you know, I love putt putt.

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So you go to putt putt and you go to that one course and it's a straight shot down the

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middle and then you hit a wall and you got to go left or right.

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Yep.

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So if you hit that wall straight on the ball's coming right back at you.

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Right.

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Now you go to the next course and it's got the little V. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So the V zoom, you know, it's going to go somewhere.

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So now go to that same course, get you a 55 gallon bucket of golf balls.

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All right.

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And just pour them out down that straight one.

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And most of them are going to come bouncing right back at you.

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Beat on each other.

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Beat on each other and all that.

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Then if you go to the other course, which has got the V in it, pour out that same bucket

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of golf, those golf balls and they will smoothly go left and right.

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You know, there you go.

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And that's the way air moves through a duct work, you know, and just think about it.

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A box is nothing but a traffic jam.

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That's all it is.

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You know, but if you can do the straight run like a tree trunk, or you can do the splitter

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left and right, now you'll get smoother air, better readings, better performance.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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We think about that square box and all we're doing is just pushing pressure into a container

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and trying to give it a place to relieve its pressure.

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Right, right.

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I said, where does a plumber take a two inch water pipe and run it into a box under your

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house and then just do pecs everywhere, willy-nilly, you know, anywhere it goes?

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We know that won't work.

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Yeah, right.

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We know we need a straight main and you've got the hard turns coming off of it for your

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hot and cold.

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Air flows the same way.

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It's just another fluid.

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Yeah, it is.

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We're still moving an object.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, we don't realize it.

252
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,520
But I mean, there's that stuff.

253
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:39,520
Absolutely.

254
00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,280
Gases in there that have physical properties to it.

255
00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:43,280
Yeah, yeah.

256
00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:44,280
Like density.

257
00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:49,280
We just don't even power energy companies, I've had to explain to them that you may be

258
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,080
doing static pressure and thinking you get 0.5, you're perfect, but would you ever want

259
00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,320
to start out a system at its maximum radiostatic pressure?

260
00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:57,320
Exactly.

261
00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:58,600
That's a crazy thing to think about in our industry.

262
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,120
Yeah, there's no room for dirt.

263
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,000
Yeah, I get that all the time.

264
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,320
And unfortunately, it's become like the norm even for people who don't test.

265
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:06,320
Yeah, right.

266
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:07,320
I bought a new home.

267
00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:08,320
I bought a brand new home.

268
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,360
It's been for three years now.

269
00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,640
Had seven degree difference between first floor and second floor.

270
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:13,640
Oh boy.

271
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:14,640
Yeah.

272
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,520
So I raised my hand up and tried not to tell them what I do.

273
00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:22,120
Hey, can you guys come back and double check my duct work for me?

274
00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,240
I'd really love for you to.

275
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:25,240
Yeah.

276
00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,760
A few more calls.

277
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:28,760
Quite a few more.

278
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:29,760
Oh yeah.

279
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,840
They got it down a couple of degrees.

280
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:38,760
And I just happened to be walking by and I go, hey guys, I hate to be one of them homeowner

281
00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:43,480
YouTuber guys, but I heard that I ought to have my static pressure checked on a system

282
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:44,800
if I'm having problems like this.

283
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:45,800
Do you know what it is?

284
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:46,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

285
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:47,800
Yeah, no, you're good.

286
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:48,800
You're a half inch static.

287
00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:49,800
That's right.

288
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:50,800
Oh yeah.

289
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:51,800
Where's your manometer?

290
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,600
I wanted to call him out so bad.

291
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,200
I was like, you know what?

292
00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:58,360
I'm going to ride this sucker.

293
00:11:58,360 --> 00:11:59,360
That's right.

294
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,400
So 23 service calls later, we finally walked away to happy machine.

295
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:04,400
23.

296
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,960
Well, and you know, another thing you mentioned too is that it's not just overall static.

297
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:09,960
It's where is the static?

298
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:10,960
Where's it hiding?

299
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:11,960
Yeah, where's the rest in that?

300
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:12,960
Like somebody says, well, I got 0.5.

301
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,160
I said, well, yeah, but what if 0.4 was on the return?

302
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:17,160
You don't want that.

303
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:18,640
You'll pull water off the coil.

304
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:19,640
Your filters won't work.

305
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:20,640
You drink.

306
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,240
Oh, don't get me started on drain lines and static pressure.

307
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:29,340
Because I went to a lot of terrible site visits and the big M word was all over the stuff

308
00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:35,280
and it was all because the drain wasn't working because the static was too high in return.

309
00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:36,280
Absolutely.

310
00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:41,200
I've seen too many air handlers with ruined motors and all you gotta do is take a cover

311
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,600
off and you look inside and go, well, I don't even have to get my tools out yet.

312
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,600
I can tell you what's going on in this duct system.

313
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:51,200
When you see splattered stuff all over the floor housing, trust me, it's been going on

314
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,200
all over.

315
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:54,200
Yeah.

316
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,200
Your drain is a pretty hefty return at that.

317
00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:57,200
Yes, it is.

318
00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:58,200
Yes, it is.

319
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,880
It's got enough velocity to pull water.

320
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:01,880
That's right.

321
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:02,880
Exactly.

322
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:03,880
Yeah.

323
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,160
And you can't, you know, and don't do the J traps anymore.

324
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:07,160
Yeah.

325
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:08,160
Those are too shallow.

326
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:09,160
I mean, not the J traps, the P traps.

327
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:10,160
The big P's.

328
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:11,160
Yeah.

329
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:12,160
Yeah.

330
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:13,560
Do the deep J's like the easy trap has got the perfect dimension.

331
00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:14,560
Yeah, those are really cool.

332
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:15,560
I want to have them.

333
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:16,560
Yeah.

334
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:17,560
I'm a big fan of those.

335
00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:18,560
Yeah.

336
00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:19,560
But you actually see what's going on.

337
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:20,560
They've got plenty of room.

338
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:22,120
It holds a nice deep pocket.

339
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:23,120
Yeah.

340
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,120
Yeah.

341
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:25,120
Yeah.

342
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:26,120
So a great training video, which I would like to recreate.

343
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:33,180
You know, it's an old quality, but a guy had, um, clear J traps, deep traps, and clear shallow

344
00:13:33,180 --> 00:13:34,180
traps.

345
00:13:34,180 --> 00:13:39,480
And he put different filters in the air handler, and he put food dye in the water so you can

346
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,360
watch the water literally suck itself back up in the air.

347
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:43,360
Absolutely.

348
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,900
And you can actually sit and watch the actual static pressures in the process.

349
00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:46,900
Yes.

350
00:13:46,900 --> 00:13:47,900
See who pulls from what.

351
00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:48,900
Yeah.

352
00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:49,900
Yeah.

353
00:13:49,900 --> 00:13:54,620
I have found a vendor of clear PVC that I saw in a couple of shows and I'm going to

354
00:13:54,620 --> 00:13:55,620
build it.

355
00:13:55,620 --> 00:13:58,320
and you can watch that order just back up,

356
00:13:58,320 --> 00:13:59,820
get stuff right back in there.

357
00:13:59,820 --> 00:14:01,420
That's some entertainment right there.

358
00:14:01,420 --> 00:14:02,600
Yeah, because I can, I visually,

359
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:03,940
I see exactly what you're going for,

360
00:14:03,940 --> 00:14:04,780
go to that, Matt.

361
00:14:04,780 --> 00:14:07,500
That's absolutely a perfect demonstration.

362
00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:08,860
And there's another, I'll do a shout out

363
00:14:08,860 --> 00:14:10,740
if somebody can help me.

364
00:14:10,740 --> 00:14:13,060
There is a, I've got a copy of it.

365
00:14:13,060 --> 00:14:17,520
It is a very, very old black and white smack in a video

366
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,940
where they built a Pixie class duck system.

367
00:14:20,940 --> 00:14:25,240
And they designed a bubble generator where the bubbles,

368
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,620
they literally had to create their own composition

369
00:14:27,620 --> 00:14:30,420
of bubbles, the bubbles have the density of the air

370
00:14:30,420 --> 00:14:32,500
so they float in the air stream

371
00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:34,820
and they elongate when the air is straight

372
00:14:34,820 --> 00:14:37,780
and they turbulence when there's turbulent air,

373
00:14:37,780 --> 00:14:40,180
they put a strobe light on it

374
00:14:40,180 --> 00:14:42,140
and you can see all the air, boom, boom.

375
00:14:42,140 --> 00:14:43,660
And then they change out different fittings

376
00:14:43,660 --> 00:14:44,500
on the duck work.

377
00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:46,980
Yeah, just to see the turbulence.

378
00:14:46,980 --> 00:14:49,820
And I've got an old copy of it.

379
00:14:49,820 --> 00:14:52,580
I called smack now, found an engineer who said,

380
00:14:52,580 --> 00:14:54,260
oh, that thing is in a closet somewhere.

381
00:14:54,260 --> 00:14:55,100
I said, I want it.

382
00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:55,940
Can I come on?

383
00:14:55,940 --> 00:14:56,760
I want it.

384
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:57,600
Let me sort through that closet for you.

385
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:58,420
I will buy it.

386
00:14:58,420 --> 00:14:59,260
I will build it.

387
00:14:59,260 --> 00:15:01,060
But apparently it's all gone now.

388
00:15:01,060 --> 00:15:03,700
I think if not, I want it back.

389
00:15:03,700 --> 00:15:05,700
And I would like to recreate that because-

390
00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:06,540
It's really cool.

391
00:15:06,540 --> 00:15:07,540
Seeing is believing.

392
00:15:07,540 --> 00:15:08,380
Absolutely.

393
00:15:08,380 --> 00:15:10,660
And people need to see what's happening

394
00:15:10,660 --> 00:15:11,500
inside that duck work.

395
00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:13,740
Yeah, I completely agree.

396
00:15:13,740 --> 00:15:14,580
Awesome.

397
00:15:14,580 --> 00:15:15,400
Oh man, I've had a lot of fun.

398
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:16,240
You had fun?

399
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:17,080
Oh, absolutely.

400
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:18,940
I love this event.

401
00:15:18,940 --> 00:15:21,240
It's great, you know, getting to know other guys

402
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:22,680
and connecting with everybody

403
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,340
and the amount of information that's available now is wonderful.

404
00:15:25,340 --> 00:15:26,180
It's amazing.

405
00:15:26,180 --> 00:15:27,420
I think we've got another class getting out.

406
00:15:27,420 --> 00:15:28,700
I see people and hear the voices.

407
00:15:28,700 --> 00:15:30,020
Oh yeah, oh yeah.

408
00:15:30,020 --> 00:15:31,260
We'll wrap it up.

409
00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:33,700
All right, so Joey, how can people connect with you

410
00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:35,420
if they're wanting to learn more about what you're doing

411
00:15:35,420 --> 00:15:36,740
out here in the training world?

412
00:15:36,740 --> 00:15:39,280
Well, if you just Google Joey Henderson,

413
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,720
Jojo the HVAC man, you'll come up with my YouTube link

414
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:43,940
and you'll come up with my website.

415
00:15:43,940 --> 00:15:48,300
And I got 15, 20 minute videos on YouTube channel

416
00:15:48,300 --> 00:15:51,140
and I'm gonna be adding some more content here pretty soon.

417
00:15:51,140 --> 00:15:51,980
Love it.

418
00:15:51,980 --> 00:15:52,820
Thank you, my friend.

419
00:15:52,820 --> 00:15:53,660
It's great hanging out.

420
00:15:53,660 --> 00:15:54,480
Thank you, nice talking to you.

421
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:55,320
See you later.

422
00:15:55,320 --> 00:16:22,420
You can watch hetaihito.com