1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,920 Welcome to the future, technologies and innovations that sculpt our industry. 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:13,480 This episode brought to you by Kysor- Warren, committed to reducing the carbon footprint 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,080 and helping businesses embrace eco-friendly practices. 4 00:00:17,080 --> 00:00:19,920 Learn more at Kysorwarren.com. 5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:24,560 All right, everyone, thank you for joining us. 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,600 We're hanging out at the 2024 National HVACR Education Conference. 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:30,960 We're spending some time with our friends from Kysor-Warren. 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:31,960 How are you guys doing? 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:32,960 Very good, thanks. 10 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,560 You want to introduce yourselves before we get hopping in here? 11 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:37,520 Yeah, I'm Dale Sizemore. 12 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,800 We're Kysor Warren, Director of Technical Services. 13 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,040 I've been there since my 30th year in June. 14 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:45,040 Wow, fantastic. 15 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,040 I am Ignacio Chaparro. 16 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,840 I am doing the new product development and new technologies, almost 18 years in May. 17 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,640 All right, so you guys have both seen a lot of changes in our industry, right? 18 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,520 So I'm a refrigeration geek at heart. 19 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:04,280 So, again, this is going to be a good conversation. 20 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:09,160 I started in the late 90s and I started in a commercial refrigeration, but I was working 21 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:10,620 on a lot of small products. 22 00:01:10,620 --> 00:01:13,100 So I was still working on a lot of CFC equipment, right? 23 00:01:13,100 --> 00:01:17,360 So I got to see that CFC phase out. 24 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,080 I got to see the HCFC phase out. 25 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,040 We're currently in this HFC phase down. 26 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,840 The thing that we really have to focus on is as educators, many of us have worked on 27 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,320 what we might call a traditional refrigerant, even though it's not really, you know, we've 28 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:35,360 seen a variety of changes in refrigerants, but we're actually starting to make a migration 29 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,680 back into our natural refrigerants. 30 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:44,520 So a long time, if we actually trace the history of refrigerants, CO2 was a very, very popular 31 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,240 refrigerant when we were talking about commercial ice manufacturing back into the turn of the 32 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,200 last century, not this one. 33 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:57,560 Right? CO2 is a fantastic refrigerant, but unfortunately we started working with some 34 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:03,680 refrigerants that were under less pressure that had environmental consequences. 35 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:09,040 And so as a world, we are transitioning away from our HFC refrigerants and there are other 36 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,080 refrigerants out there like HFOs. 37 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:19,160 But when we talk about long term, our natural refrigerants are most have no ozone depleting 38 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,360 potential, have very low global warming potential, and really is the way that we're going to 39 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,040 succeed going forward. 40 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:30,100 But many of us educators were technicians in the field. 41 00:02:30,100 --> 00:02:33,980 And so we may not have had a lot of experience with things like CO2. 42 00:02:33,980 --> 00:02:40,440 So let's talk a little bit about where Kaiser Warren is moving forward in the industry and 43 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,600 moving into our natural refrigerants. 44 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:49,680 Yes, our focus is on natural refrigerants at this point. 45 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,720 We still build the traditional equipment. 46 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:59,720 It's still the majority of what we build, but the natural refrigerants are growing. 47 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,400 They're doubling almost every year in percentage of our production. 48 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:10,080 Our direction is transcritical CO2, we call it DCO2 for short. 49 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,240 And that's the direction we pick. 50 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:23,180 There are many options out there with CO2 and liquid overfeed and combination racks 51 00:03:23,180 --> 00:03:25,400 and combinations of CO2 and glycol. 52 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,240 There's different customers going different ways. 53 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,880 One thing that causes is this separation of the training. 54 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,280 It makes the training and the technician... 55 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:37,280 Like almost two paths? 56 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,400 Yeah, well, multiple paths. 57 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:45,080 So the technicians, for us, we feel like if we can get going in the same direction, the 58 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,720 gap for those technicians is going to be smaller. 59 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:53,200 Because if you're doing transcritical with CO2, I'm sorry, if you're doing liquid overfeed 60 00:03:53,200 --> 00:04:00,080 and glycol and DX and top cycles and things, so you have to know all those things. 61 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:01,080 All the different components. 62 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,320 Got to know all the different components. 63 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,740 Transcritical CO2 is relatively simple. 64 00:04:05,740 --> 00:04:08,200 It's traditional refrigeration at a higher pressure. 65 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,920 So we like to teach it that way that it's a shorter putt for a technician that's already 66 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:17,960 proficient at parallel refrigeration. 67 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:19,200 Right, exactly. 68 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:23,680 So they have a base understanding of the refrigeration principles. 69 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,160 So what are we doing for training? 70 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,960 I know we see a lot of online training for CO2. 71 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,680 We've actually been working on some content for CO2. 72 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,280 But I'm a hands-on kind of guy. 73 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:38,720 So what opportunities are out there for educators to be able to work on some of this hands-on 74 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,920 stuff before it actually gets into the classrooms? 75 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:41,920 Yes. 76 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,160 We at Kaiser One, we have two different facility trainings. 77 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:51,840 One in Edwin Dale, California in Anaheim and another one in Columbus, Georgia. 78 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:54,880 And on those two facilities, we have full equipment in operation. 79 00:04:54,880 --> 00:05:00,240 We have a CO2 transcritical system with multiple display cases connected. 80 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,440 And we have also the new technologies that we are pushing into the industry to create 81 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,280 efficient high efficiency systems. 82 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:12,520 So those two facilities will have those technologies implemented that people will see, touch them 83 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,160 and understand how they do work. 84 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,880 And how long are the training classes themselves? 85 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:22,300 The training classes, if we go on site, that will be at least one full day. 86 00:05:22,300 --> 00:05:26,600 They will get the theory of how the system works, the different technologies. 87 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,200 Also they do get information about the installation of the system because that's another important 88 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:31,200 part for technicians. 89 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:32,200 Yes, absolutely. 90 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,920 To understand what are the safety measures that they need to take. 91 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,760 And also, as Dale was saying, this system is very similar to the HFC so they can understand 92 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,480 the differences and get more comfortable with that. 93 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,640 We really push hard on the safety of the CO2. 94 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,680 Because everybody's scared of that and we want to get that word out there that done 95 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:59,000 correctly with the proper safeties and installed correctly, it's stable, it's safe. 96 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,600 For the technician at least. 97 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:05,680 Yes, a lot of people get intimidated because of the pressures the system operates at. 98 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:06,680 That's the thing I hear the most. 99 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:07,680 Yes, exactly. 100 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,960 So we try to put the word there, what are the safeties that we consider and how the 101 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,200 systems are designed to overcome that issue, the pressures. 102 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:17,200 It's not an issue anymore. 103 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,960 It's just handling the system properly. 104 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:20,960 Absolutely. 105 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:27,000 When we think about moving forward with our refrigerants, we're going to have safety 106 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,360 concerns with any refrigerant that we work with. 107 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,600 We are seeing A2Ls that are a mildly flammable refrigerant. 108 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,400 We have our A3s that are highly flammable refrigerants. 109 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,240 So safety is going to be one of the most important things going forward with training. 110 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:46,000 And so understanding how those systems operate and how to safely work on those. 111 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:51,840 Another question that I get out in the industry is, well, these are just large tonnage systems, 112 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:52,840 aren't they? 113 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:55,840 And then just for the big stuff? 114 00:06:55,840 --> 00:07:01,000 Well, in the majority, yes, but there are some systems coming in like small condensing 115 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:02,000 units. 116 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,000 Yes. 117 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:07,320 We do have developed small condensing units for smaller applications like 5 tons, 6 tons. 118 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:08,320 Really? 119 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:09,320 Yes. 120 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:10,320 Wow. 121 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:11,320 Okay. 122 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:12,320 Yes. 123 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:13,320 Go ahead. 124 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,480 Yes, because we know in order to have that implementation in the industry for remodeling 125 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:21,880 or expansion, they cannot close down the full store to make the full retrofit. 126 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:23,600 So they need a way to make the change. 127 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:24,600 Yeah, have a bridge. 128 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:31,440 So if you're in a transition from HFC to CO2 and you have to do something in between, 129 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:37,560 but you're not ready to make the full transition, then you can do this small system. 130 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:42,400 Like in California, if you have a traditional store already with the regulations there and 131 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,680 it's HFC, you can't add horsepower. 132 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,760 Now you could take one of these small units, add it as CO2 is natural. 133 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:50,760 It's a complementary system. 134 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:51,760 Yes. 135 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:56,680 So you can eventually remodel the store and everything's totally converted over CO2. 136 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,360 You can either keep that unit or you can take it off, put it on the right. 137 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:01,360 Okay. 138 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:06,400 And that is a big concern going forward is that we don't have unified legislation on 139 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,040 our refrigerants. 140 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:12,480 You would think that we would as a nation go, okay, this is where we are going. 141 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,000 And we're all doing it at the same time. 142 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:19,480 But we know that a lot of our states have more stringent regulations than what we may 143 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,160 set at national standards. 144 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,960 Do you see any states in particular that are going with CO2 faster than others? 145 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:27,440 California and New York. 146 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,120 Yes, California and New York. 147 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:34,000 California actually, they implemented their regulations in 2022. 148 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:39,720 So from 2022 to now, any new systems with more than 50 pounds have to have refrigerants 149 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,040 with less than 150 GWP number. 150 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:43,040 There's not a lot of them. 151 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:44,040 Not a lot of them. 152 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:48,960 New York is going that way and actually they are pushing even harder than that. 153 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,720 They are going to go 10 GWP number. 154 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:52,720 10. 155 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:53,720 10. 156 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:55,800 So that's even more difficult to do that. 157 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,920 Wow, that really is limiting your options. 158 00:08:57,920 --> 00:08:58,920 Yeah. 159 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,520 But also we also know that the EPA, they have a final rule. 160 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:03,520 Yes. 161 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,000 Trying to do the transition as well. 162 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,000 Yes. 163 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,920 So 2026 and 2027 will be coming across the country. 164 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:10,920 Yeah. 165 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,400 So we'll see the push of those natural refrigerants more and more. 166 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,120 Yeah, we've had a lot of conversations on our show talking about the technology transition 167 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,800 rule and people look at that as going, okay, this is what we have to prepare for and we 168 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:22,400 go, no, no. 169 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:27,080 You have to be aware of the technology transition rule, but you have to be aware of what states 170 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,560 are doing that are even more stringent than that. 171 00:09:29,560 --> 00:09:30,560 That's right. 172 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:35,460 And so if I'm an educator and I'm looking at what the future of refrigeration is, I absolutely 173 00:09:35,460 --> 00:09:40,480 need to be implementing CO2 into my curriculums now or at least being able to go out and go 174 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,280 to the training facilities at Kaiser Warren and learn how to work on these pieces of equipment 175 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,240 to be able to start implementing that into the classroom. 176 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,240 That's right. 177 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,000 That's something that we talk about a lot in our sessions and on-site sessions and our 178 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,560 tables at the shows and things like that. 179 00:09:54,560 --> 00:10:02,080 If you're not already planning that, you're not already working towards that, you're behind. 180 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,640 So it's coming down like a freight train. 181 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,080 We're not stopping it. 182 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:08,840 We have to get the... 183 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:15,160 For me as a technician by trade, I feel like we owe it to the trade not to let them sneak 184 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:19,480 up on them and catch them by surprise because it's going to be ugly if there's not enough 185 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,600 people out there to work on it and install them and build them. 186 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,440 We don't think there's enough manufacturing space for what's coming. 187 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:26,440 Yeah. 188 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:27,440 Yes. 189 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,680 And one of the benefits, as he's saying, is the good part of CO2 trans-critical systems 190 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:33,240 is that they are the same concept. 191 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:34,240 Right. 192 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:35,240 As a conventional... 193 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:36,240 Still refrigeration. 194 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:37,240 Yes, still. 195 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:38,240 Yes, exactly. 196 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:43,600 So technicians, if they are proficient with HFCs, going to CO2, let's say they have at 197 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,040 least 80% already over. 198 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:46,040 Yes. 199 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:47,040 Absolutely. 200 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,360 20% is the difference between HFCs and CO2 systems. 201 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:54,680 When we look at CO2 systems in general, I know like in my state of Indiana, some of 202 00:10:54,680 --> 00:11:00,360 my grocery stores were implementing CO2 systems almost a decade ago. 203 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:05,600 And so we're not talking about educating technicians for the future. 204 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,240 We're talking about educating technicians for systems that are already out there that 205 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,440 are now entering into their service age. 206 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:13,440 Right. 207 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,880 And we, I think as a generation, are very far behind. 208 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:22,320 Even myself, I'm fairly far behind on CO2, but I've been out of the industry for about 209 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:23,640 six years. 210 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,960 So even as an educator myself, I have a lot of brushing up to do. 211 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:32,180 So I know there's many educators out there that are needing these resources. 212 00:11:32,180 --> 00:11:34,880 So what are some good ways to connect with Kaiser Warren? 213 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,520 I come to the conference, obviously, when we have almost 1200 educators here that are 214 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,440 wanting to connect, but we have a lot of educators that are going to be joining us. 215 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:48,680 We also have technicians that are in their van right now going, you know what? 216 00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:52,920 I'd like to work on some of that bigger stuff, but I don't know where to begin. 217 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,000 So let's talk about some resources from Kaiser Warren that we can connect with. 218 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:01,240 Yes, definitely going to our website. 219 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,000 There is information for the CO2 systems in the website. 220 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:10,000 They can contact our marketing department and they can direct them to the people that 221 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,760 can work with them on the training sessions. 222 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,720 That will be the main way to do. 223 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:24,800 With our two competing hands-on facilities, one in Anaham and one in Columbus, Georgia, 224 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:29,140 we're also looking at tools to help us with that, putting online calendars. 225 00:12:29,140 --> 00:12:30,320 All that will start showing up. 226 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:35,160 We're still in the infant stages of getting that part of technology set up so that we 227 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:36,160 can get the word out. 228 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:41,760 Right now, word of mouth, we can't even support the demand we have. 229 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,000 So when we put it out to the public, we have to be prepared for it. 230 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,520 It's going to be this mad push because there's a lot of people out there. 231 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:50,800 And today, everybody's looking for a business card. 232 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,720 Everybody's like, hey, can you help us out with material and stuff? 233 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,360 Can we come to your place and learn how to do that? 234 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,080 Absolutely, you can do that. 235 00:12:58,080 --> 00:12:59,080 It's fun in that spot. 236 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,440 It's fun in that date when it works for everybody and getting them in there. 237 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,040 We, Nasir and I both have day jobs and we do the training. 238 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,200 This is what we love to do and we want to get the word out there. 239 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:14,720 But we're going to push as hard as we can for the years we got left in the business. 240 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,240 Isn't it fun though? 241 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:17,240 Yeah, it's great. 242 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,480 It's buying time for me. 243 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:24,580 I've been doing refrigeration for 42 years and I don't, you know, we've had more changes 244 00:13:24,580 --> 00:13:28,960 in the last 10 years than they did the whole first 32. 245 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:34,680 I think this year, I think 2024 is going to be almost a pivotal point for our industry. 246 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:35,680 Yeah, I agree. 247 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:36,680 I think this is a year. 248 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:38,240 Time to put up a shut up. 249 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:39,240 It is. 250 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:40,240 It is. 251 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:46,240 We've had so many conversations here in these podcasts of we've went too many years as industry 252 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,340 competitors and not been industry partners. 253 00:13:49,340 --> 00:13:54,760 And so now you're seeing industry competitors coming to the stage just like you are today 254 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:55,760 going in. 255 00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:00,480 I mean, at the end of the day, we all have things, we're all salespeople of something. 256 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:01,480 Absolutely. 257 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,040 You got to get paid. 258 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,120 But the important part is everyone is saying, but together we're going to push an industry 259 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:09,120 further. 260 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:13,520 And the light bulbs are just they're glowing so bright. 261 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,440 It's just it's a beautiful time to be in this industry. 262 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:17,440 100%. 263 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:22,200 And I've never seen the collaboration in all the years with these events like NASRC or 264 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:27,800 100 Arms at Spurk last week, we got Erwindale coming up in three or four weeks. 265 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:29,360 We'll be out there again. 266 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,440 And those are free events for technicians, by the way. 267 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:36,600 So technicians, if they hook up with those folks, they can go there and they get similar 268 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,440 to what you get here for trainers. 269 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:43,640 They're getting technical training and we go into a lot more in depth stuff there. 270 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:51,760 For the technicians for install service and being specific about TCO2 equipment. 271 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:52,760 Yes. 272 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:56,280 And in those kind of sessions, you can have a little bit of everything. 273 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,600 We have OEMs going to do the trainings. 274 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:04,720 We have compressor manufacturers, controls manufacturers, component manufacturers. 275 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,080 Everybody's doing the training. 276 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:08,080 Joining in. 277 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:09,080 Yes. 278 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,480 Joining in and providing information to the technicians so that they know a little bit 279 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,720 of everything on those kind of sensors. 280 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,640 And as they say, it's free training. 281 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:16,640 It's free training. 282 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,560 They just need to stay agnostic. 283 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,280 We're not there trying to sell technicians. 284 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,040 They don't buy equipment for the most part. 285 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:23,040 And we're trying to help. 286 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,120 We're trying to get the industry and get the word out there and get it built up so that 287 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,480 there's more people available to do the work we need done. 288 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:31,600 We need good installers. 289 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,000 We need good service people as a manufacturer. 290 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,600 If you don't have that, then it causes you a lot more issues. 291 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:39,600 Warranty returns. 292 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:40,600 Everything. 293 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:41,600 Failed component. 294 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:42,600 Happy customers. 295 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:43,600 Happy customers. 296 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:44,680 Yeah, for sure. 297 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:45,680 You want that. 298 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:46,680 Absolutely. 299 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:47,680 Yes. 300 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,440 You want that but also we need technicians that they are able to install the systems 301 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,280 for the end users to buy the systems and start doing the transition. 302 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:59,840 They're like, none of my contractors want to do this. 303 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:00,840 Think about that. 304 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:06,760 If I'm an educator and one of my most important numbers is my placement. 305 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:12,120 Where am I placing my technicians and what type of salary are they making when they leave 306 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:13,440 this program? 307 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,240 We're not talking about entry-level jobs. 308 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:21,560 When we get into our refrigeration, we're talking about high demand, high paying careers 309 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,200 that are incredibly stable, that are not going away. 310 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:26,200 They're only growing. 311 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,000 It's only growing. 312 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:34,240 If I'm looking to implement CO2 training into my program, here's a great place to start. 313 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:35,720 Yes, absolutely. 314 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:36,720 Absolutely. 315 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,480 You were talking about regulations before. 316 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,720 We know that EPA, they put the regulation out for 2027. 317 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:44,720 Yeah. 318 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:49,240 So starting 2027, they will see more and more of the systems that we are seeing right now. 319 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:50,240 Absolutely. 320 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,720 It's going to multiply at a much faster rate. 321 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:53,720 I believe that. 322 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:58,680 I like to follow what's happening internationally and see the different product changes that 323 00:16:58,680 --> 00:16:59,680 are happening. 324 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,720 A lot of people don't even realize, we've got CO2 in automotive air conditioning systems 325 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:04,720 right now. 326 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:05,720 Yes. 327 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:06,720 And people go, what? 328 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:07,720 Wait a minute. 329 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,120 In vehicles and small tonnage systems? 330 00:17:10,120 --> 00:17:11,120 Yeah, absolutely. 331 00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:16,160 CO2 is a very, very useful, very environmentally friendly refrigerant. 332 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:23,560 As we make this HFC slide, I call it a slide, we're at right now a 40% reduced consumption 333 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:31,360 or production of HFCs based on GWP, which means all of our HFCs are going to see a significant 334 00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:34,240 increase in price and a lack of availability. 335 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,600 We've already seen transitions in our distributors that are making agreements and arrangements 336 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:43,320 with their contractors that if you're not reclaiming and bringing back refrigerant, 337 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,520 we're not even selling you because we're not going to have access to it. 338 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:52,080 And let's think about the, just for a minute, let's talk about the access of CO2 as a refrigerant. 339 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:57,740 There's really not a life expectancy of CO2 because it doesn't qualify on any of that. 340 00:17:57,740 --> 00:18:00,200 We call it future proof. 341 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:06,520 So if you put in CO2, there's very low probability unless some magical thing comes out of the 342 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,920 blue that's not there yet. 343 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,720 Yeah, none of our chemical manufacturers. 344 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:13,720 You can use it forever. 345 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:14,720 Exactly. 346 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,680 All of our systems never going to be obsolete again. 347 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:17,680 Exactly. 348 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,240 You're always going to have access to refrigerant. 349 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:20,240 That's right. 350 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:21,240 I mean, we look at like... 351 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,080 And they can make as much CO2 as we want and you can vent it. 352 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:26,080 There's no law. 353 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,560 What about the change of regulations if we would do something natural? 354 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:35,080 In some ways it's easier to service because they're not confined in there with laws where 355 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,760 they're worried about getting in trouble for accidentally venturing. 356 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:39,760 Because there's no... 357 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:40,760 Great requirements. 358 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,160 There's no commercially available... 359 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:44,160 That needs to be ironed out. 360 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,160 That's a whole other... 361 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,560 There's no requirement for when you service a piece of equipment that you have to reclaim 362 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:52,560 it. 363 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,480 There's no commercially available reclaimer for CO2. 364 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:56,480 Yeah. 365 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:57,480 Wow. 366 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,960 That does make you think a little bit differently about that because we're going to see, like 367 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,680 even with when we talk about what we call in a residential or new refrigerants, they're 368 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:05,680 really not new refrigerants. 369 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:06,680 They're just HFCs, right? 370 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:07,680 And HFC blends. 371 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:14,000 We've got a shelf life of no more than 12 years. 372 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,000 That's the reality. 373 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:20,360 When we look at the HFC phase down and realize that both R32 and 454B are in that shelf life 374 00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:25,840 of the HFC phase down, they're going to become scarce just like the others as we continue 375 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,960 the HFC phase down. 376 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:34,600 And the reintroduction of natural refrigerants into every aspect of HVAC and refrigeration, 377 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,040 I think will be here faster than people realize. 378 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,040 Oh yeah. 379 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:39,040 I agree. 380 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:40,680 It's coming like a steamroller. 381 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:41,680 Yes it is. 382 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,480 Well, I'm glad we have this conversation. 383 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:49,160 It really brings some light into where we're going because I feel it and now that we see 384 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:54,000 it from our manufacturers and know that our manufacturers are amping up the educational 385 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,680 opportunity and educational outreach, that's a big statement. 386 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:58,680 That's the right thing to do. 387 00:19:58,680 --> 00:19:59,680 It is. 388 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:00,680 It is. 389 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:01,680 All right. 390 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:02,680 Anything else you guys like to cover while we're here? 391 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:03,680 Appreciate you having us. 392 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,360 Yeah, this is so cool. 393 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:07,360 So the website is once again? 394 00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:08,360 www.casagrande.com 395 00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:09,360 Okay. 396 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:10,360 Thanks guys. 397 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:11,360 Have a great day. 398 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:33,840 Enjoy the rest of the spring.