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Welcome to the future technologies and innovations that sculpt our industry.

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This podcast recorded live at the 2024 National HVACR Education Conference sponsored by Daikin

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Comfort.

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Learn more about Daikin at Daikincomfort.com and visit Daikincity.com.

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Alright everyone, thank you for joining Did You Know?, the ESCO HVAC podcast.

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So we're hanging out at the National HVACR Education Conference.

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We're learning about new technologies, new innovations.

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We just had a general session where we had our manufacturers and we had the US Department

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of Energy helping us direct towards new opportunities for our educational programs.

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So today we're hanging out with Ben Middleton.

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How you doing, sir?

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I'm doing great.

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I'm Ben Middleton, National Cells Training Manager for Deichen Comfort Technologies.

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Yeah, and thank you so much for having us here, Clifton.

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Oh man, this has been a wonderful conference that is sponsored by Deichen.

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We're so grateful to have you here.

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The biggest topic that we have been discussing and pondering over this entire conference

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is we know that the innovations are coming.

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We know that we're making transitions into inverter technologies and cold climate heat

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pumps as well as refrigerant transitions at the same time.

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And our educators are finally going, holy smokes, it's time to step up the game, right?

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Absolutely.

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I mean, there's just been so much change.

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And you think about it, I don't think the amount of change that we have in our industry

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is going to get any slower and any time in the near future.

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So I mean, from the regulatory changes that we had with the regional efficiency standards

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to refrigerants to safety standards that are in the equipment and the list just keeps going

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now this big push towards electrification, there are so many changes that are happening

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in the industry and it feels like it's everything all at once.

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Yeah, it really does.

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And sometimes it's overwhelming.

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But we've been helping everyone understand where their resources are and where they go

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to learn more about the technologies.

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And previously, we've always had, I wouldn't call it a stigma, it's just been a kind of

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an understanding that the high end brand specific training typically goes into distributors

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and into contractors, you know, to educate on those products.

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And our vocational programs haven't always been directly accessible to that.

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That's all changing.

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And Dyken is at the forefront of providing the opportunity for educators to learn about

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this stuff directly from the manufacturers.

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So tell us about all the training opportunities that Dyken has been focusing on.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So I mean, the task is monumental, if you will, with the number of people that need

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to be trained.

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You've got a lot of people that have been in the industry for, you know, 20 plus years,

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decades.

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And we do know that the average age within the industry is something that we're sitting

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at, you know, the average age is 55 right now within the trades within plumbing and

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within an HVAC.

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And so that's a big challenge that we have that we look at.

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And the problem with it is, is so you've got this group that needs to be retrained.

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And then we got this brand new group that's entering the workforce.

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There's a big push right now.

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A lot of people are talking about, you know, get into the trades, you don't need to take

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on all of the school debt, you don't need to take on all of this other information,

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all of this, you know, the four year college, getting into the trades is a great career

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for somebody to just starting out to get into and there's a ton of opportunity.

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But with that, as we look at inverter technology, as we look at electrification, there are skills

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that we need to make sure everybody is doing.

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In the past, when you talked about your inverter equipment, it was about two and a half percent

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of the industry, two and a half percent of the equipment went out with inverter technology.

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As we've had these regional efficiency standards change, now you start to see that get deeper

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down into the mid-tier segments.

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Now you're looking 30, 40 percent of the equipment as we move forward is probably going to have

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inverter technology in there.

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And we saw a big shift, you know, not too long ago, even with the blower motors inside

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of air handlers and furnaces, where we went from just a standard, you know, PSC motor

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that you have there.

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And then we went into a constant torque motor and then we went into, you know, full variable

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speed drives.

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But that was a learning curve that everybody had to go through.

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When people first looked at the first variable speed drive blower motors that went out, there

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was a lot of people that said, all right, I don't know if I can take all of this change,

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just give me the simple motor.

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But the fact of the matter is, is we drive for more efficiency as we look towards electrification.

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The other issue is heat pumps.

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There's a lot of guys that you can't just change a straight cool air conditioner out

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with a heat pump and expect it to deliver the heat capacity in all of the markets without

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doing the proper heating and cooling load, without doing without taking a look at the

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duct work and making sure you have enough airflow and all of those issues.

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So there's a lot of stuff that needs to happen when training.

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And you look at the number of trainers that are available in the industry and you start

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doing the math.

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The math does not add up.

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There's just I get it.

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And so trainers right now are more busy than they've ever been before.

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Classes are fuller than they've ever been before.

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Because I travel the industry and stop by at a lot of these different events.

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Your attendance is up here at this event.

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Right now we're just talking about that.

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And so there's a big demand for training.

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But the cool thing is there's a lot of new technology that's emerging and becoming available.

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So the three things that I look at is there's definitely VR.

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And so what role does that play in training?

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There's augmented reality.

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How does AR play in there?

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There's AI.

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How is AI going to start to help us?

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And so I'd love to talk a little bit about some of the things that we're looking at to

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be able to roll out that's going to help.

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So back in about 2018, we actually started working with a company called Interplay.

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And I'm sure you're familiar with Interplay.

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And so what I love that they're doing is they're making training available.

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It's on demand and it's an Omni device.

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And so those two things are really, really important.

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Number one, how many times have you signed your techs up for a class or instructors scheduling

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a class?

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You get all these registrations, but then the weather hits.

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And now you've got a whole bunch of people.

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It's really cold out.

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It's really hot out.

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And you got to say, I'm sorry, guys, you can't go to the class.

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We've got all kinds of calls that are coming in and we need to make sure that we take care

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of our customers.

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But then when do you do the training?

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And then the next week you have this lull and you're like, I really wish there was a

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workshop available right now because I don't have any calls for the guys.

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And so the nice thing about having on demand training is you can be flexible and you can

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say, OK, guys, today I want you to go ahead and complete all of those inverter heat pump

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modules that you needed to do.

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I really need you to understand about duck sizing and how you assess the duck system

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that they have.

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So I need you to complete this module right now.

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And so our partnership are working with Interplay.

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We've developed a lot of different simulators that guys can go in and they can do inverter

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installation and commissioning.

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They can do inverter troubleshooting and they can do this at their own pace.

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And you can access this from a tablet.

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So a technician out in the field, let's say that they just had a call cancel, they could

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jump on it with a tablet real quick because most technicians have tablets that they're

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using anyways and they can complete a couple of courses.

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The other thing that they can do is you can actually access the training in VR.

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And that's so, so important because what I have learned in the VR learning environment

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is that you get a lot of muscle memory.

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You're not just standing static or sitting looking at a flat screen.

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You're actually truly in a 3D environment.

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And you know, the one question Interplay brought this up to me a long time ago, and it makes

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a lot of sense.

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But just think about your brain and how it processes information.

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If I were to ask you, Clifton, what color is the carpet in your living room?

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And don't answer the question, but think about what happens to the process in your brain.

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What you do is your brain automatically transports you back to the living room and you literally

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look down at the carpet and you see the color.

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So that's what happens.

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And so the exact same thing happens.

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If I can have a technician go ahead and set and level a unit 10 times.

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So let's say I have a brand new technician, just new to our team, and they set and level

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the unit 10 times in VR.

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Now when the lead installer says, hey, go set and level that unit, they know exactly

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what to do.

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And so this reduces callbacks, it increases efficiency on the job site.

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It allows you to be able to do that one or two extra installs per month, which, you know,

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that can make a huge difference on the bottom line.

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And so those are the types of things that we're doing.

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And then you start to think about the troubleshooting side of things.

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If they're literally taking the voltage meter, OK, so I go ahead and put my probes here and

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here and this is the reading that I'm looking for.

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Again, they're moving their arms, they're doing it when they get out in the field.

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It's the exact same board that they've been working on.

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And technology is changing at a breakneck speed, right?

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Crazy.

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So the cool thing about doing this in VR is almost as soon as you create a training lab

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and you hard install all of the stuff into your training lab, the equipment's outdated.

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Yeah, it's ready for an update.

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And so that's this perpetual changing out.

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It's costly and it's something that you get to put time and resources to to continue doing

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those updates.

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Whereas in VR, we can just go ahead and push an update and everything is updated in our

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whole entire database for everybody that's out there.

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So VR, I think, is from that standpoint, the simulation side of VR is really, really important.

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But the other thing that we've really been working on.

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So we partnered up with a company called Chalk Bites.

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And what they do in VR is that we've actually literally built our own virtual campus.

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Oh, really?

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And so now I can have instructors that don't have to get on an airplane.

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They don't need to go to a hotel and they can go into our virtual campus and I can have

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40, 50 students that didn't have to get on an airplane, didn't have to go to a hotel,

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didn't have to drive.

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And so we can do more classes and again, making them more available.

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But now they're getting a live classroom instruction.

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And I will tell you, it just blows you away the first time you put on this VR headset.

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The instructors inside of there, there's a little bit of a God complex that happens with

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the instructor because I literally can tell everybody to sit and push a button makes everybody

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sit down in the chair.

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But I can mute everybody, which is kind of interesting and fun.

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But there's this thing called 3D sound.

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And so now I can say, okay, I want you guys to go work on this furnace over here.

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You guys go work on this air conditioner over here.

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You guys go work on this ductless unit over here.

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And they're getting in groups.

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But in Zoom, everybody's always talking over each other.

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And it's difficult here.

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This group's huddled over here.

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The instructor can walk over and hear the conversations they're having and talk with

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them.

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Then the instructor can walk over here and he can work with that group just like you

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would in a real classroom.

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Now VR physics don't apply.

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So the other thing that's really cool, I can blow a furnace up to 20 stories tall.

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I can literally walk into the furnace or walk into the air conditioner, walk into the heat

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pump.

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And so there's some things or I can shrink it down and put the unit in the palm of their

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hand and every student can have their own furnace or air conditioner and the instructor

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can point different things out.

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So there's some great advantages that are happening there.

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And all of this stuff, because you're in a 3D environment, the learning goes way up.

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The other thing is when you have a headset on, guess what you can't do?

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I can't check my text messages.

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I can't be distracted by emails.

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I can't be...

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Right, you're locked in.

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I am completely 100% focused.

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And so there's been studies that have been done in the military.

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In fact, one of the education institutions that really pioneered a lot of the VR learning

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has been the medical industry.

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Oh yeah, absolutely.

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And so what they have found is the retention is 80% higher in VR than it is in a live classroom.

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Now that's very interesting.

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And so it's really interesting as we start to look at this.

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So you start layering technology utilizing VR with live training.

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And then we get into things like augmented reality.

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I'm really excited about this.

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Oh my gosh, I love it.

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Yeah, I spent a lot of time with Zspace.

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They're really intriguing.

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You think about augmented reality and what they can do.

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Now literally, I can go ahead and bring up the unit on my phone and somebody can literally

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go in there and say, put your probes here and here.

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And so again, they're teaching, but you've got somebody that can either live through

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the augmented reality working in there.

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Also in augmented reality, now I can bring a huge rooftop unit into a conference room.

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Put it in your hands.

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Everybody can walk around it.

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Take a look at it.

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Take a look at it.

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Take panels off.

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And so there's just all these great things that are happening with technology as we see

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this emerging.

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But what I see this doing is it's increasing the bandwidth for the number of instructors

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we have and the challenge that we have to be able to get out in front and really prepare

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us for this as we continue to move forward and we see all the things that are happening.

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And so that's VR and AR.

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Now we got this thing called artificial intelligence.

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It seems to be like this super big buzzword that everybody's looking at.

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And so what can you do with it?

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So imagine if you took all of the podcasts that you've ever recorded and you ran it through

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a software program that did voice to text, took all of that text.

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Now I can upload all of that information into an AI engine.

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I can create an avatar and now somebody can ask any question and AI will search all of

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the data, all of the information that's ever been recorded on this podcast and it will

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give real plain English answers back to questions that people have.

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And so I really see AI being one of the things that's going to start leading as we continue

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to move forward because now a technician out in the field, what is the biggest challenge

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everybody has?

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I can't get a hold of tech support because everybody would like it instantaneously.

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I need tech support now.

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And so what this does is it allows you through the power of AI, I can take all of those conversations.

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So utilizing technology like what XOI has been doing out there.

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XOI is doing some great stuff, but imagine if all of those tech support calls that we're

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recording, we input those into this AI engine.

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Now instead of somebody trying to search through just all of this information, all of these

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calls, now I can leverage AI to get those answers back and to help the technician real

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time in the field.

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And so I just seen where AI is going and what it's doing.

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And again, this is going to help us be able to accomplish some of these big tasks that

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we have with all of these changes that are happening.

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So we talked about VR, we talked about AI, we talked about augmented reality.

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The other big challenges that I see just in technology as we continue to build this stuff

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out is going with a platform like XOI.

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So what sort of apps are going to be available that are going to provide that real, you know,

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those workflows and that tech enablement out in the field to enable technicians to be able

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to solve all of the challenges that we have.

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What I'm excited about, we've never been at a point where we've had all of this technology

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available.

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So we're going to be able to allow the end user to experience comfort like they've never

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experienced it before.

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I truly agree with that.

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I've worked with all of the software that you were just now discussing.

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And when you actually witness it and you feel it, you go, wow, think about the possibility.

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We were just experimenting with some text to voice and text to video animation.

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And so we built a profile actually used about an hour worth of my audio complex and then

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actually did a audio repeat of content that we were creating off directly from Word content.

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And I had to delete my profile because when I heard myself talking to me, I couldn't tell

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it was not me.

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So then it gets to a point, well, who would you like to give you the answer?

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Now it doesn't have to be just some generated computer voice.

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It could actually be your service manager.

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It could actually be a trainer.

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So there's so many interesting opportunities moving forward.

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And that's going to aid in the education.

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So my friend educators come and they say, I know, I see that.

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It's really cool.

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But I don't have time to integrate that in my program now.

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And we go, don't do it during the day.

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That's what we call homework, isn't it?

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And they go, oh, I said, you know, if we think about Gen Z and we think about alpha, both

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of them spend hours and upon hours every night into the digital immersed media right now.

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So why would we not want to give them the opportunity to take that as a new interest

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for them to go, oh, by the way, you know, you love doing this environment.

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How about I assign you a project and let you run through this tonight, get yourself comfortable

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with it.

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And then tomorrow in class, when we do our hands on, you've probably already done it

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10 times.

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I'm only going to assign it to you to look at once, but you're probably going to do it

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five times, 10 times, because you're going to challenge yourself to get better at it

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every time.

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And then when you come to class, you're going to be more than prepared for this assignment.

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Absolutely.

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You know, a couple of things that I found very interesting.

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So go back to the VR.

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We've had VR stations set up, you know, for the last five, six years.

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We had all of the trade shows that we've done in just kind of my non scientific observation

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that I've made.

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And it's been very interesting is it seems to be the age range of 50 and over.

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They're very excited about being involved in virtual reality and and putting all of

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those things together.

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You know, there's a lot of excitement there.

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Then we get into the age range of 30 and under.

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They've been playing in VR for a long, long time.

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And so they're real comfortable with it.

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But there's this group in between 30 and 50.

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They're very hesitant to getting involved with this technology.

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And so that's been fascinating to me as I make those observations and see that I also

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see for all of the instructors that out there, some look at this technology almost as a threat.

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Yeah, you know, is this is this technology going to replace me?

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I am never.

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And the answer is no.

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What it's going to do is it's going to help you be on a bigger stage, if you will, a bigger

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platform to be in front of more people and just be more accessible.

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So for so long in training, I think what everybody has always been thinking about is I'm trading

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time for money.

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Well, you only have so much time that you can trade for that money that's out there.

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And so if you kind of flip the script and you say instead of trading that time for money,

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what I'm actually doing is we're finding a way to monetize on the knowledge that we're

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putting out there to everybody.

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And there's a lot of different ways to look at that.

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But everybody needs to start thinking differently about the way we're doing it.

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We talk about all of the technicians are going to have to change all of the HVAC businesses

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are going to have to change as this technology changes.

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Well, it's the same with the instructors.

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And you know, the funny thing about human beings is we all know we need to change, but

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nobody likes to change.

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We're all very reluctant to change, unfortunately.

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It's just human nature, like you said.

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Yeah.

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And the big message I've been saying is we all have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

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We just have to go out there and try new things, have fun.

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And that's where we're going to see, you know, the biggest advances happen as we're putting

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all of this stuff together.

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Getting comfortable with the uncomfortable.

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That is the podcast name, my friend.

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I'm so glad you joined us.

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These are just great conversations.

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We all have our part to do.

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We all have things that are going to require a little bit of discomfort, maybe.

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And it's okay.

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Absolutely.

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What's at the end of discomfort?

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Growth.

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That's what we're looking for.

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Thank you so much.

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All right.

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Ben Middleton, Dyken Comfort Technologies.

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So glad you joined us today.

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Let's listen to some of those questions.

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Okay.