1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,600 Tales from the trenches, stories forged in the fires of experience. 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:15,960 This episode recorded at the 2024 National HVACR Education Conference and proves that 3 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,400 education is a lifelong journey. 4 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,360 All right, everyone. 5 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:23,840 Thank you for joining us. 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:29,720 We are hanging out at the 2024 National HVACR Education Conference, and I'm spending time 7 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:31,680 with Ray Coker and Harvey Kaplan. 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:32,680 How are you gentlemen? 9 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:33,680 Oh, very good. 10 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:34,680 Real good. 11 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:39,640 So we are here to learn about things that are transitioning in the industry, and we're 12 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,520 here to continue our education. 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:47,280 And I think it's very important for people to understand that education, particularly 14 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,160 in our industry, is never ending. 15 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:56,760 As technicians, as educators, contractors, we constantly need to update our education 16 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,160 to know what's happening in the industry. 17 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:05,760 And I would love for the two of you to share your experiences, and most importantly, share 18 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:10,040 how long you've been in the industry and what you find at the conference. 19 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,520 I started out in the industry in about 1962. 20 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:20,040 I was in the Air Force at the time, and I decided I needed some extra money. 21 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:26,800 So I went over to Mobile, Alabama, and went to a York school and came back. 22 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:34,760 And the big uphill dude ranch out there by the Biloxi Air Force Base needed technician 23 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:40,880 to take care of all of their refrigeration, air conditioning equipment, kitchen equipment. 24 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,960 And so I worked there part time for them. 25 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:50,200 And then later on, I was teaching computers. 26 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,360 Air Force was lucky to me, or good to me. 27 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,640 They sent me to Kingston, New York to learn computers. 28 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:02,160 I came back, worked, taught computers for about three years. 29 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:07,160 And then lo and behold, IBM came in and offered me about three times my Air Force salary, 30 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,480 and it took about 10 seconds to decide what to do. 31 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:18,960 And so then I went to Huntsville, Alabama for a year, worked on the Apollo launch vehicle 32 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:20,920 computer. 33 00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:24,000 And then they said, hey, Rafe, you grew up in Texas. 34 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:25,480 How'd you like to go to Texas? 35 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,540 And I says, sounds good. 36 00:02:27,540 --> 00:02:33,120 So we moved down to Houston, and I was a flight controller on all of the Apollo missions. 37 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:34,120 Oh my goodness. 38 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:39,400 Well, we lost our astronauts to one of the fires. 39 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,520 As flight controllers, we had nothing to do. 40 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:46,840 We'd already had all of our mission training, all the simulations and everything else. 41 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:52,680 And so I got bored and I went back into the air conditioning business part time. 42 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,880 I still had to go to NASA every day for eight hours. 43 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:02,720 And I worked nights and weekends and became one of the largest York dealers in Galveston 44 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:03,720 County. 45 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:04,720 Nice. 46 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:12,840 Well, I went ahead and stayed with the IBM throughout all the Apollo missions and the 47 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:17,600 first shuttle mission, and then decided I'd retire. 48 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,200 And that lasted about three years. 49 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:26,600 And then I went back into a similar type air conditioning situation. 50 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:33,300 And now I own a refrigerator recovery and reclamation company in Lake City, Texas. 51 00:03:33,300 --> 00:03:40,040 And we deal with the large contractors, schools, hospitals, and chemical plants. 52 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:47,040 I attend these seminars up here to keep track of what the next chemical refrigerant is going 53 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:53,640 to be so that I'll know how to go ahead and redesign my equipment to handle the new refrigerants. 54 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:54,640 Absolutely. 55 00:03:54,640 --> 00:04:02,280 I've already went ahead and started getting some R32, one of the A2L refrigerants. 56 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:09,760 And I've already went ahead and explosion proofed my system that reclaims that refrigerant. 57 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:17,120 I'm glad it's a one chemical that way it's easy to reclaim and get it back to normal 58 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,720 specs of brand new refrigerant. 59 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,080 And so that's about what I've been doing. 60 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:29,680 And I enjoy coming to these seminars I started when they first started coming to Las Vegas 61 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:30,680 years and years ago. 62 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,440 And I think I've missed only two of them. 63 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,320 And so I sure appreciate Esco. 64 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,200 And we appreciate you being here. 65 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:40,200 Harvey? 66 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,000 Well, I have a similar experience. 67 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:52,740 I started back in 1961 as an electrician and I wound up with a reputation of being a good 68 00:04:52,740 --> 00:04:54,840 control guy. 69 00:04:54,840 --> 00:05:01,000 And air conditioning, particularly in the residential world, was a virgin industry back 70 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,560 in 1962, 63. 71 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:11,800 When I was offered a job in refrigeration and air conditioning. 72 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:18,360 And I would have stayed where I was as an electrician, except that I was making top 73 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:24,160 pay at that point, which was $2.50 an hour. 74 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,360 And I was offered $3.50 to go there. 75 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:35,320 And at that point I had a wife, a mortgage, a car payment and two children. 76 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,040 So that was a no brainer. 77 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:48,360 So on the first day at the job, the boss handed me a copy of here's a pump, modern refrigeration, 78 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,600 which was if you guys remember the old green book, you wouldn't remember. 79 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,200 No, I see them. 80 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:54,200 Yeah. 81 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,480 But anyway, so and it was about an inch thick or what have you. 82 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,160 And he said, you need to learn this stuff. 83 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,000 Well, I'm an anal guy, as most of you know. 84 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,360 And so I started studying that book and learning. 85 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:11,120 And then I got a reputation of being a pretty good service guy. 86 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,760 We didn't call him technicians back in those days. 87 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,800 You were a mechanic. 88 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:16,800 Yeah. 89 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,000 Nowadays, everybody's got to have a fancy title. 90 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,040 And not only that, they want a fancy paycheck. 91 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,160 But as it may. 92 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:27,840 So that's how I got to that. 93 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:32,080 And then eventually I went into business for myself. 94 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:38,800 And after my kids were grown, and I says, I don't really want to do this anymore because, 95 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:43,480 you know, I had already gone through all the colleges and all that sort of stuff for the 96 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:44,840 kids. 97 00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:51,200 So I started teaching and which was really, I mean, it's hard to believe that go to work 98 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:57,040 at a certain time in the morning and in the afternoon, you were on a set schedule. 99 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:01,080 And so and I went to work for Reem at that. 100 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,720 Well, no, I was teaching at Lincoln at that time. 101 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:06,920 Okay. 102 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:13,720 And Reem used to do some seminars at our school, use the school's facility, and they would 103 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:17,040 give the school a piece of training equipment or what have you. 104 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:22,240 So anyway, so the guy that was doing that training left the company. 105 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:27,160 And so I called the owner up, the boss, the owner, wasn't the owner. 106 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,840 But anyway, I called him up and said, Hey, what are you going to do for that position? 107 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,360 And he said, he says, Why are you interested? 108 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,560 I said, Yeah, I said, and show you the kind of guy. 109 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:44,200 So I said, Oh, what is what is your pay for that? 110 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,200 And he gave me a range. 111 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,760 And I said, I would only be interested near the top of that. 112 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:54,800 Okay, I said, I'm not interested in down down at the bottom of that range. 113 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,520 So he said, Okay, so we interviewed this and the other. 114 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,080 So when he finally made me a job offer, it was $500 less than the top. 115 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:09,840 So then after Rheem, I went to work for York and then I retired. 116 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:16,440 And I teach these seminars and I make these videos and I do all these things that, you 117 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,760 know, the industry was good to me. 118 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:19,760 So it's my payback. 119 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:20,760 It is. 120 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:22,400 It's about giving back, isn't it? 121 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,960 It is definitely about paying back. 122 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:30,540 So if we if we think about giving back to the industry, and the importance of staying 123 00:08:30,540 --> 00:08:33,920 connected in HVAC. 124 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:39,880 So how would you want to average how many hours a year do you think you participate 125 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,840 in events like this as continuing education? 126 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:50,080 Well, I teach probably between 15 and 20 seminars, which is one day. 127 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,720 But I spend my wife thinks I live on a computer. 128 00:08:54,720 --> 00:09:03,160 I do these videos and one video would probably take anywhere from 30 to 50 hours to put it 129 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:04,160 together. 130 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:05,160 Yeah, sure. 131 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,600 And even though the longest one that I've done is 10 minutes. 132 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,240 Yeah, absolutely. 133 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:18,760 The people that I train are usually the ones that are in a technical school already like 134 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:25,560 the Galveston County has a tech school there and they will bring their people up or at 135 00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:30,960 least every class will come up and spend at least all day long. 136 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:38,720 And I will go ahead and give them all of the updates on the that EPA has on section 608 137 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:47,200 and then also the A2L refrigerants and then show them the big machinery that we use to 138 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:53,080 recover the large quantities of refrigerants in the chemical plants and then also show 139 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:59,160 them the reclamation machines, how they work, and then take them over to the hydrostatic 140 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:04,040 test station and show them how we re-certify all the cylinders and everything. 141 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:12,600 And so I spend as much time as I can with them because there's I think four colleges 142 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:20,320 in the area of Houston that teach air conditioning and so they all call and they want to take 143 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:29,760 a nice safe visit, get out of the classroom for a few hours and come down and we spend 144 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,560 a lot of time with them. 145 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:36,480 And then also and always are training the employees that we have. 146 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:46,200 We just got one new employee that came in and we put him on the OJT and then also if 147 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,480 he works out the first 90 days then I'll pay his tuition, buy his books and everything 148 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,720 else and allow him to go to air conditioning college. 149 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,600 Oh wow, that's fantastic. 150 00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:02,040 Yeah, well one of the things that I've done, I think most people know that at one point 151 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:08,240 I was on the NAE technical committee and I was on a committee that wrote the journeyman's 152 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,400 and master's test in the state of Maryland. 153 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:20,600 And now probably my biggest satisfaction is I teach a review course for licensing in Maryland 154 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:28,400 and the average of people that have not taken my class is about 40% pass. 155 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,480 The ones that take my class it's about 85%. 156 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:40,040 So that's a great pat on the shoulder for me as far as I'm concerned. 157 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:45,200 The thing I find most interesting about it is we talk about continuing education and 158 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:51,800 giving back to the industry and we have a lot of educators that are here for their first 159 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,080 time. 160 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:58,920 They're new to the program, they're trying to learn what things to expect and one of 161 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,880 the reasons I thought it would be wonderful for us to sit down and talk about the continuing 162 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:09,160 education side and that this is a constant evolution of learning. 163 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:14,920 Do Ray and Harvey, do you mind sharing with the audience how old each of you are? 164 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:16,480 Oh, I'm just a youngster. 165 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,400 I'll be 85 this year. 166 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:20,400 I'm only 91. 167 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,840 In fact, it was kind of comical. 168 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:28,400 They were asking me what my three sons are doing and I said, well, the oldest son was 169 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:34,040 66 and worked for IRS and so he retired about three years ago. 170 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,600 The youngest son retired about two years ago and he's only 62. 171 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:44,760 And then last year, my middle son that worked with me, he retired and he's only 64. 172 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:53,120 And here I am only 91 and still enjoying going to the office every day, working four to five 173 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:54,260 hours a day. 174 00:12:54,260 --> 00:12:59,800 But I've got good management people so that when I'm going up here and my wife and I are 175 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:07,360 together and so we're enjoying the seminar and I've got good people working for me. 176 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:12,000 They enjoy the jobs and they're doing a good job for me. 177 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:21,280 I'll tell you this, from the students that I've had here before previously, it's really 178 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:26,080 great when they come up and say, hey, I really enjoyed your class this year and I learned 179 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:27,080 something. 180 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,080 I said, well, you got to come to another one. 181 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:33,080 And I said, I'm doing it at such and such time. 182 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,640 And they say, I'll be there. 183 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,600 And occasionally one says, well, I won't be there on Wednesday or whatever day. 184 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,200 And it's great. 185 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:47,040 And you know, everybody likes an attaboy including us old times. 186 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:54,360 I'll tell you what really has been an enlighten for me. 187 00:13:54,360 --> 00:14:01,800 I've had three employees that went ahead and thought they had found better jobs. 188 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:07,120 And then after a couple of years would come and say, hey, can I have my old job back? 189 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,120 One of them even took a big pay cut. 190 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,400 He was working for one of the big school districts there and everything else. 191 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,600 And he came back over and he says, I just can't take the politics in the school system. 192 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,360 He says, let me come back to work for you. 193 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:31,560 And so that's a heartfelt thing for me to have people tell me that, hey, you've been 194 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,360 a big influence on my life and your company has. 195 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:40,000 And so I've, you know, treat them like family. 196 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:44,000 That's part of the reason I wanted the two of you to join me is I wanted both of you 197 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,600 to know how much I appreciate your dedication to the industry and to know that you've spent 198 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:57,880 your entire lives giving back to people way beyond the typical social expectation of when 199 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,040 we work and how long a career is. 200 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:07,360 Cause a lot of people look at work as I'm going to do this for a certain amount of time 201 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:08,960 and then I'm going to be done. 202 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,400 But our industry is not really like that. 203 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,160 It's very unique. 204 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:19,680 And I keep relating this to this, this career. 205 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,800 It's really not about fixing broken things. 206 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,040 It's about serving people. 207 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:33,020 And when you can help someone understand that they're, they're not just going into a career, 208 00:15:33,020 --> 00:15:42,480 they're going into a lifestyle and a constant evolution of themselves and a never ending 209 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:43,480 reward. 210 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,480 I don't know that I could ever stop doing this. 211 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,520 Well, I can tell you I've never stopped. 212 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,760 No, I haven't either. 213 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:57,880 And my one thing in the classes that I do, whether it's a seminar or here for a 45 minute 214 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:02,080 class or what have you, I honestly believe they've got to be fine. 215 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:03,080 They do. 216 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:04,080 They have to be fun. 217 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:09,840 If they're not fun, the students are going to have to get them involved. 218 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,160 I like two way streets. 219 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:18,480 I'll ask them questions and I don't care if the answer is right or wrong. 220 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:19,480 That doesn't matter. 221 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:24,440 If it's wrong, we're going to tell them. 222 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:30,640 My usual response is when a guy says it's an answer. 223 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:35,960 I'll say, I'll say it's a split second, not in say whether it was right or wrong. 224 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:36,960 And then I'll say wrong. 225 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:44,160 Give him a little time to think about it. 226 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:49,040 So, you know, it's that it's got to be fun for them. 227 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,160 It's going to be fun for me when it stops being fun. 228 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:53,160 I'll probably stop. 229 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,160 I hope that never happens. 230 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,120 I believe that that's the way I am. 231 00:16:58,120 --> 00:16:59,120 I love what I'm doing. 232 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:00,680 I love the people I work with. 233 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,280 I enjoy meeting our customers. 234 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:08,240 In fact, here at this seminar, I met several of our customers. 235 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,840 Dyken is one of our larger customers now. 236 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,760 Goodman used to be the customer and then Dyken bought them out. 237 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:21,320 And so now I'm bringing in the R32 that Dyken has and reclaiming that. 238 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:27,600 They don't know yet what they're going to do with the reclaimed refrigerator, but I 239 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,000 enjoy talking with them. 240 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,600 Agass is one of our customers. 241 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:37,760 We do a lot of mutual trading back and forth of refrigerants. 242 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,920 In other words, they'll need something we got. 243 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,280 I'll need something they have. 244 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:49,120 And so it's a pleasure meeting all these people face to face. 245 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:53,480 I'm here to tell you, both of you are an inspiration to our industry. 246 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,280 I applaud you and I appreciate you. 247 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,880 I'm so glad that you spent some time with us today. 248 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:06,560 And I look forward to many opportunities of learning and continuing to see people grow 249 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:07,560 in this industry. 250 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:08,560 Definitely my pleasure. 251 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:09,560 Thank you. 252 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:26,600 Thank you, gentlemen.