1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,000 Soften your senses. 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:10,280 Ways to become a better speaker, listener and follower. 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:15,400 This episode recorded as part of episode 76 of Did You Know? 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:22,600 The ESCO HVAC Show. 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:24,400 Howard Weiss, how are you, sir? 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:25,400 I'm good. 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:26,560 I'm not that scary, am I? 8 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,760 I'm ready for the future. 9 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,960 Oh yeah, look at that. 10 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:32,960 Love it. 11 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:33,960 I love the A's. 12 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:34,960 Future refrigerants are here. 13 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,800 We need to be ready. 14 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,720 And Greg, I'm so glad you pointed that out. 15 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,360 This really is a great class. 16 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:47,480 It's not an extremely big challenge to introduce into it. 17 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:52,480 Something that we have to introduce into our educational program because it's upon us and 18 00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:56,000 it's very important that we train our technicians. 19 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,240 Little things that Howard, I would like for you and I to discuss. 20 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,000 So we spent time with Jason talking about why. 21 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,480 We spent time talking to Renee about how. 22 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:12,320 But let's talk a little bit about the importance and the significance of why we think it's 23 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:18,240 a little bit different at Esco, the importance of the design that we have in our programs. 24 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:23,120 Well, first of all, I'll back up to something that you asked Jason. 25 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,760 You asked Jason, when did all this start? 26 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:26,760 Yes. 27 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:32,240 And something that's interesting is something called the Coalition of Like-Minded Organizations. 28 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:39,600 Back in 2016, Esco started working with leading manufacturers of refrigerants and associations, 29 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,280 manufacturers, understanding that all this was underway. 30 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:44,280 Yes. 31 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:45,280 And let me just share something. 32 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,680 I get probably the number one thing we get called on. 33 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,280 Why is this all happening right away? 34 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:52,280 Right. 35 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,800 And I remind people, I go, we actually brought this to your attention at our conference in 36 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:58,840 March of 2010. 37 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:00,440 14 years ago. 38 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:01,800 14 years ago. 39 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:06,120 So that, you know, we talk about the Safe Refrigerant Transition Task Force. 40 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:07,120 Yes. 41 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:12,840 Esco has been involved in committees for the last 14 years, trying to make certain that 42 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:19,800 whatever happens, we can easily break it down, make it attainable, give you information to 43 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,280 help you educate your students. 44 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:22,960 So let me just give you a quick idea. 45 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,080 We get an email. 46 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,360 Here's a proposed rule from the EPA or final rule that's coming out. 47 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:29,360 Yep. 48 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,480 And it could be several hundred pages. 49 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:32,640 Is that what you get from us? 50 00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:33,640 No. 51 00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:35,040 You usually get a one or two page summary. 52 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:36,040 You get the condensed version. 53 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:37,040 What you need to know. 54 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:38,040 Yeah. 55 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:39,040 So a lot of notes. 56 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:40,040 Right. 57 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,760 So a lot of what we're trying to do, we're trying to make it easy for you to do your 58 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,800 job by taking the time to read the... 59 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:53,920 Reading the government regulations is like reading a simplified version of the IRS tax 60 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:54,920 code. 61 00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:55,920 It just doesn't exist. 62 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:56,920 Okay. 63 00:02:56,920 --> 00:03:00,760 So a lot of what we're trying to do is break this down, understand their meaning, and then 64 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:05,880 tell you exactly what you need to know so you can be more productive in your job. 65 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,800 A lot of people aren't aware that part of that final rule that you were talking about 66 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:19,560 is the EPA's directive to potentially require new training requirements for A2L refrigerants. 67 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:25,320 And it doesn't really fall under section 608 of the Clean Air Act because it actually comes 68 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,600 out of the AIM Act and is a very different item. 69 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,800 And so the reason that we have this is having you prepared for what that is. 70 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:38,120 Now it's unknown exactly what that is going to look like, but if we look at training in 71 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,120 general, we do know that there... 72 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:46,800 Howard I could go to a class and I could sit through a class and when I'm done, somebody 73 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,400 could say, you went to that class. 74 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:50,880 Thank you. 75 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:55,680 Or I could go to a class and maybe I can have a requirement. 76 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,960 Maybe I have to be in this class for an X amount of time and I have to be there a whole 77 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:00,840 time and I can't be on my phone. 78 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:05,160 But there's another thing which is really what ESCO has always been focused on and it 79 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:06,600 was like that moth for me. 80 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:07,600 All right. 81 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,040 So you were the moth and ESCO was the light. 82 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:14,340 When I was a trainer and I was looking for a complete package to be able to test not 83 00:04:14,340 --> 00:04:20,080 only my retention of information, but my students' retention of information. 84 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:25,240 And you really pointed this out to me today and it makes so much sense of why we're different 85 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,760 and why we push the bar so high here at ESCO. 86 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,320 Could you explain a little bit? 87 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:32,320 Sure. 88 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,880 And unfortunately, I'm not like Bill Clinton where I could take a five part question and 89 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,440 go five, three, two, one. 90 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:39,880 But I'll try and cover everything you want. 91 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:46,400 So when you brought up the American Innovation and Manufacturing Act, the AIM Act, specifically 92 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:53,080 subsection H of the AIM Act, gave the EPA the authority to regulate the phase down 93 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,720 of HFCs and manage their substitutes. 94 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:57,720 Most people know that. 95 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:05,040 What they don't know is it also empowered the EPA to establish technician training and 96 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:11,700 certification requirements for the handling of ASHRAE 2, 2L, and three refrigerants. 97 00:05:11,700 --> 00:05:16,720 This process is currently in process and the final decision is uncertain. 98 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:22,480 But it's evident from the fact that they're going through all the procedures right now, 99 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:23,480 they're exploring their options. 100 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:31,440 So to just start phase one, phase one, the EPA put out a comment period to ask for industry 101 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,800 input as to what this would look like. 102 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,880 That comment period, I don't remember exactly when it closed, it was somewhere around, it 103 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:38,880 was in December. 104 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:39,880 Yeah. 105 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:40,880 Okay. 106 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:46,040 Then they're going to take their time anywhere from 90 days to a year, we're going to have 107 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:47,400 a proposed rule. 108 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:52,000 There will be the opportunity for the industry to give a little feedback on it. 109 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:53,880 And then we get a final rule. 110 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:58,240 Now not knowing what the rule will be, I know where you were going. 111 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,400 Our conversation earlier is why should someone take a close book exam? 112 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:03,400 Absolutely. 113 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,120 So here's the problem. 114 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:10,160 We have for the automotive exam, EPA section 609, it's an open book test. 115 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:11,160 Sure. 116 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,320 It really fails to assess someone's retained knowledge. 117 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:15,320 Right. 118 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:20,500 Did I learn anything or am I just good at taking a test or can I open the pages and 119 00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:23,960 find what I need to know to be able to satisfy somebody's expectation? 120 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:24,960 Right. 121 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:26,680 And just keep in mind, retain knowledge. 122 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,520 Because on what you just said, I bet I could pass the bar exam on an open book test. 123 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,560 I would write books and if I knew where to open the books, absolutely. 124 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,920 Well you definitely don't want me defending you. 125 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:36,920 Right. 126 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:43,400 So secondly, if the EPA does come out, they've talked about the idea of cloning or mimicking 127 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,200 the EPA section 608 program. 128 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:46,200 Why not? 129 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,680 There would be a multi-part test, close book, the idea that this training may require the 130 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,880 same elements, a card, all the same tools. 131 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:54,880 What they do then. 132 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:55,880 Right. 133 00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:01,520 So are they going to grandfather someone who just sat in a class and got a certificate 134 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:07,520 of attendance or someone who got a certificate of completion or someone who actually took 135 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,200 a close book exam? 136 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:10,720 The answer is probably the last. 137 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:11,720 Exactly. 138 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:12,720 We don't know that. 139 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:18,680 But the last thing, taking a close book exam is the only way you could truly reduce liability. 140 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:20,680 So what we were chatting about. 141 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:21,680 Yeah. 142 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,960 What we were chatting about earlier and just for everyone else, we have to distinguish 143 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:33,480 between someone getting a certificate of attendance, a certificate of completion, or an industry 144 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:34,600 certification. 145 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,120 They're not the same thing. 146 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:37,120 Okay. 147 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:43,040 It all drives to the difference between knowing about something and validating one's retained 148 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,040 knowledge of the subject. 149 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:50,920 Mere awareness of the existence of standards does not equate to a deep comprehension and 150 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,320 a commitment to these standards. 151 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,640 So I'd like to share a story that I think everyone will appreciate. 152 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:57,640 Okay. 153 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:58,640 Yeah. 154 00:07:58,640 --> 00:07:59,640 Yeah. 155 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:00,640 That's what I'm looking for. 156 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:05,200 I have a good friend who was a teacher who had a former student who had passed away, 157 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,040 died using an aluminum ladder near a power line. 158 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:10,040 Okay. 159 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:14,800 It appeared that the court was going to favor the plaintiff until the instructor was called 160 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,560 to give their deposition. 161 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,180 They asked questions of the school, the state, and the teacher. 162 00:08:20,180 --> 00:08:21,840 How did you know the student? 163 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:23,720 It was in your class when you covered the material. 164 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,020 Did you take attendance? 165 00:08:25,020 --> 00:08:27,120 How do you know they fully understood the material? 166 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:28,960 There was a plethora of questions. 167 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,320 Well, it appeared the plaintiff would win. 168 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,880 The case was ultimately dismissed on one single reason. 169 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:40,200 Documentation, the student understood the established safety standards from the exam 170 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:41,200 they took. 171 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:42,200 So- 172 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:47,480 That's a liability interest, significant liability interest there. 173 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:53,120 And that's the thing, Clifton, whether you're dealing with students, customers, or employees, 174 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:54,760 should one of them be injured on the job? 175 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:59,640 Do you have the documentation to validate they had to retain knowledge to adequately 176 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:00,880 perform said task? 177 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:05,160 So we all, if you're a teacher in a school, hey, here's your safety glasses, here's your 178 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:06,160 gloves. 179 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:07,160 We go through everything. 180 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,440 But do we give them some kind of safety exam to document? 181 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:11,440 Validate it. 182 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:12,440 Yeah, absolutely. 183 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:13,440 Did they? 184 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,600 You know, and I've had our distributors, and if you're a distributor trainer out there, 185 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,900 that's where I was before I joined the ESCO team. 186 00:09:19,900 --> 00:09:24,480 If you're a distributor, it brings up an entirely different perspective that is very important 187 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:25,480 to be aware of. 188 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,360 If you remember back when R410A came out, what was everyone afraid of with R410A, Howard? 189 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:30,360 High pressure. 190 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:31,360 Pressures, right? 191 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:32,360 So what did we do? 192 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:40,100 So we never had a nationally required R410A certification, but a lot of our distributors 193 00:09:40,100 --> 00:09:46,800 required an R410A training with a certification to validate that you were able to work with 194 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,800 this new equipment before they would sell you that equipment. 195 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,200 And we've already began to see this with many distributors here in the country that are 196 00:09:54,200 --> 00:10:00,240 requiring their contractors to go through a training class, not just go through a training 197 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:07,000 class, but take our certification, take our test to validate that they retain that knowledge. 198 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:13,560 Now the distributor actually has their version of that insurance policy in their hand showing, 199 00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:17,120 hey, my contractor went through this class, they retained the knowledge. 200 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:22,920 If they made the choice later to do something incorrectly, I taught them how to do it correctly. 201 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:24,400 They chose to do differently. 202 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:25,700 And that's a big factor. 203 00:10:25,700 --> 00:10:31,240 So even as a school, we have to look at that as a contractor, as a distributor, we all 204 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:36,420 have the opportunity to look at it as I'm providing training and making sure that my 205 00:10:36,420 --> 00:10:39,320 student is retaining the information that I delivered. 206 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:45,360 So about 20 years ago, there was a frivolous lawsuit that everyone thought was frivolous. 207 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:46,360 Okay. 208 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,720 Lee Bick versus McDonald's. 209 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,560 Lady spilled coffee in her own lap. 210 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:51,560 Yeah. 211 00:10:51,560 --> 00:10:54,760 You got about $2.8 million out of McDonald's. 212 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:55,760 Why? 213 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:00,880 Because restaurants, it's specified the temperature in which coffee is to be served. 214 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:05,760 And apparently McDonald's from reading the case was serving coffee at roughly 40 degrees 215 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,480 higher than the standards. 216 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:09,480 Okay. 217 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:14,400 Knowing standards exist and adhering to standards are two different things. 218 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:15,400 Yeah. 219 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:16,400 Yeah. 220 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,040 Clifton, you worked at a very large distributor. 221 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,480 So let's just take this. 222 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:28,000 If you had a bunch of customers, you trained in 410A, A2Ls, et cetera, and someone got 223 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:33,320 injured, even if you did all the training and covered everything, do you have the documentation 224 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:38,440 to demonstrate to authorities that you covered all those standards set forth by groups like 225 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:43,160 ASHRAE, UL, NFPA, SRTTF? 226 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:49,280 Do you have any documentation to show that not only they attended what you covered, but 227 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,440 that they understood it to fend yourself? 228 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,160 And well, I'm not trying to scare people. 229 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,080 I'm just saying we live in a crazy world. 230 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,080 Yeah. 231 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,560 If you're teaching safety, forget A2Ls for a second. 232 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:00,000 You're a teacher. 233 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,200 Any type of safety you teach, you should document. 234 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,520 You should have people take a test. 235 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,920 Once again, there's a major difference between a certificate of attendance, course completion 236 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,760 certificate, and a closed book exam. 237 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,200 In my world, I want to just, maybe I'm showing my age. 238 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:22,240 As President Reagan used to say, we should trust people, but we should also verify. 239 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,040 Man, isn't that a big statement. 240 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:32,200 So, you want to reduce warranties, or excuse me, liability. 241 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,120 Make certain that you're giving people a test. 242 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:36,120 Okay. 243 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:37,120 Big, big point. 244 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,400 A lot of people out there are probably rethinking right now going, wow, that does change the 245 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:41,880 way that I look at my training. 246 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:48,160 Because with A2L, we're not really focusing on global warming potential or ozone depleting 247 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,800 potential like we did with our EPA 608. 248 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,640 We're now actually talking about safety, which is the reason we implemented this in the AIM 249 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,620 Act is because we're not talking about the environmental side. 250 00:12:58,620 --> 00:13:03,440 We're talking about the safe handling for the technician and the consumer. 251 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,740 So there's a lot of information that needs to be validated, retained, and tested to make 252 00:13:07,740 --> 00:13:09,320 sure that we're retained. 253 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,600 Now let's talk about some additional resources while we have the opportunity. 254 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,280 So we've spent a lot of time talking about introducing the A2L training program into 255 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:22,800 your classroom, which we're highly encouraging all of our proctors to start introducing A2L 256 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,140 training into your classroom. 257 00:13:24,140 --> 00:13:26,320 But there's also a lot of continual facts. 258 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,720 Jason and I talked about some of our previous shows where we take deep dives into these. 259 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,300 We have a bunch of resources. 260 00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:36,800 Let's talk a little bit about our A2L fact check, the blog that is designed just for 261 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,320 facts about this transition. 262 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:46,000 Our customer service team and members of our team get calls and emails nonstop every day. 263 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:51,160 Jason had, when I talked to him this morning, 15 emails on A2Ls. 264 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:56,240 You and I were both discussing this morning all the comments on social media we're finding. 265 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:57,240 Yes. 266 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,160 And a lot of what we're finding on social media is inaccurate. 267 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:02,840 There's no nice way to say it. 268 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:03,840 Okay. 269 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,400 What we did with A2L fact check, we are taking frequently asked questions and we're putting 270 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:09,400 out answers. 271 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,360 So, no, we don't want everyone just emailing us. 272 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,120 We hope you take the time, go through the course. 273 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,000 But if you have a legitimate question you don't know the answer to, let us know. 274 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,080 We have a series of videos, short articles, posts. 275 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:27,360 The whole purpose of this entire series is to help you have the tools, whether you're 276 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:32,000 trying to train yourself, students, customers, or employees. 277 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:37,320 One of my favorite videos in here is the one you mentioned earlier where you did the flame 278 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,480 test on four classifications of refrigerants. 279 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,920 I think it's about 15 minutes long. 280 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:43,140 It's a fairly short one. 281 00:14:43,140 --> 00:14:47,320 And what people will realize if you show that in your class, that's showing you that under 282 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,240 the right circumstances all refrigerants are flammable. 283 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:56,320 Then at the same token, I think that you're probably one of the biggest questions I get 284 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,480 emails for every day. 285 00:14:58,480 --> 00:14:59,920 Misinformation. 286 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:00,920 These things are flammable. 287 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:01,920 They're explosive. 288 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:03,720 We're going to die. 289 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:04,720 That type of stuff. 290 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:05,720 This scare stuff. 291 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,200 And I go, our 410A is made of what? 292 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,480 125 and 32. 293 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,040 So if you take away the 125, you have our 32. 294 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:20,200 So one of the new refrigerants you've been working with a form of for many years. 295 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:21,200 Seconds. 296 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:22,200 Absolutely. 297 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:23,480 And what's our 454B? 298 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:24,480 Yeah. 299 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,960 It's that blend of 32 and 1234YF. 300 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:27,960 Right. 301 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:33,080 So, you know, everyone's afraid of this stuff because they heard something on social media. 302 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:39,920 So what these resources are, they're really meant to help you separate back from fiction. 303 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:40,980 Okay. 304 00:15:40,980 --> 00:15:45,960 This is a good time for us to bust some myths. 305 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:46,960 Are you ready? 306 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:47,960 Sure. 307 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:49,200 So this one's for you, Howard. 308 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:53,440 This is an important one because all of our instructors out here right now are, have probably 309 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,000 been thinking about this. 310 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,760 Hopefully they're getting more informed about it. 311 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:04,600 But I got a good one for you. 312 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:13,960 Thank you, Tommy Brown. 313 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:19,840 And he just did that a couple hours ago on the fly for me. 314 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:20,840 He's so amazing. 315 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:21,840 I love working with him. 316 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,920 And he did that because that's probably one of the biggest posts that we see. 317 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:26,920 Yeah. 318 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:33,120 And first of all, going back to the AIM Act, which gave the EPA the authority under subsection 319 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,440 H to regulate training and certification. 320 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,600 The AIM Act is not the same thing as the Montreal Protocol. 321 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:42,600 Exactly. 322 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:43,600 Okay. 323 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,600 And so first of all, there's separate regulations. 324 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,480 So does your EPA card cover it? 325 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:50,480 No. 326 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,920 What will the AIM Act require? 327 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:54,080 We don't know yet. 328 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:59,700 What we do know is based on what the EPA is trying to set up, there will be some form 329 00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:02,480 of required training, certification, or both. 330 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,840 And when we do know the facts, we're going to share those with everybody. 331 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:07,840 Exactly. 332 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,840 And it's important to note, so there's the link for over to the atlfactcheck.blogspot 333 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:14,840 to be able to see where that is. 334 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:20,240 And it's important for people to know that the EPA as well as the DOE are going to be 335 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,920 hanging out with us at the National HVACR Education Conference. 336 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,760 So we encourage you to come join us. 337 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,760 We're hoping that they'll have more information. 338 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:29,760 They may or may not. 339 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:35,280 Remember, we're talking about a government agency that is bound by certain avenues of 340 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:39,160 information, and some they can't disclose until they actually get to that moment in 341 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:40,160 time. 342 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:41,840 But they will be there. 343 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,880 They may be able to answer some questions for us. 344 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,420 But we have this continual interest, this continual conversation with the EPA. 345 00:17:48,420 --> 00:17:57,620 And we promise to you, as we build this community, this entire HVAC and building sciences community, 346 00:17:57,620 --> 00:18:02,500 that we will be here to update you when things change as quick as they change. 347 00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:06,520 Like Howard, I think I mentioned before, and Jason talks about it. 348 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,200 Howard and Jason are on the Federal Registry every day looking to see when the changes 349 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:11,200 are. 350 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,640 And if they come from us, it's because it probably happened that morning. 351 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,560 And that's why we want you to continue to join us and just participate and stay ahead 352 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,440 of the bar and not get behind. 353 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,640 What do you think? 354 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:31,280 At the conference, you're going to have the EPA, Honeywell, Chemours, Hudson Technologies, 355 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:32,280 ESCO. 356 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:37,640 You've got all the leading organizations in refrigerants and refrigerant regulations 357 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,520 in a singular place. 358 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:44,280 You've got our weekly show, our podcast, H2L fact check. 359 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,280 A lot of people will say, oh, you're just trying to sell certification. 360 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:53,360 No, we're a standards organization that is trying to move the industry forward. 361 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:59,080 And if you're not staying up to date with all of our communications, hop on board. 362 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:00,080 Grab that QR. 363 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,080 It'll grab your information. 364 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:06,480 It'll let us know what your piece of the industry, are you a distributor, a manufacturer, a contractor? 365 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:12,600 And that way, as we have pertinent information that is specific for your sector of the industry, 366 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,080 we'll get notifications to you. 367 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,860 And so we try to keep it very segmented so that we're not sending everybody the same 368 00:19:18,860 --> 00:19:20,160 thing all the time. 369 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:25,360 But if it's important for your portion of the industry, we're going to have you covered. 370 00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:26,840 And I'd like to say two last things. 371 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:32,320 If you're on LinkedIn, we have a group called HVAC Educators, which if you're a teacher, 372 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,920 I don't care if you teach at a school, supply house, manufacturer, join it. 373 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:36,920 It's a great way to be connected. 374 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,160 And here's the real quick thing. 375 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,520 Steps to training and certification. 376 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:47,720 If you have students, customers, employees, have them go through the online course. 377 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,760 The online course really covers everything you need to know. 378 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,340 Have them come on in, go through the PowerPoint with speaker notes. 379 00:19:55,340 --> 00:19:58,280 It's going to review what they've already learned. 380 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,120 And then lastly, have them take the test. 381 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:04,780 If you're just a technician out there watching our show, you're important too. 382 00:20:04,780 --> 00:20:07,920 But the same resources are available to you. 383 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,040 Take the online course and call us and we'll give you a location to take the test. 384 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,600 Love it. 385 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,360 All right, Mr. Tebbe, thank you so much. 386 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:17,880 It has been a fantastic triple header. 387 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:18,880 I'm honored. 388 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,640 This is great to have so many different perspectives of the same topic. 389 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,800 And we'd love having you all with us. 390 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,400 Is there any last questions that anybody has before we get out of here? 391 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,960 I told you we try to keep it around an hour and that's pretty close. 392 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:32,240 Went over a little bit, but. 393 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,400 Well, we just need to make certain, are you ready? 394 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:36,400 Are you ready? 395 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,200 That's all it comes down to. 396 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,840 All right. 397 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,360 Well, I think we're going to wrap it up for the day. 398 00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:44,520 We appreciate everybody joining us so much. 399 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,960 And next week, we're going to spend a little bit of time talking about 608 resources. 400 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,640 So if you're new to training, you're not an ESCO proctor, you're not familiar with the 401 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:53,640 resources. 402 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,680 We introduced you to the low GWP. 403 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,720 Next week, we'll talk about 608 and where all those resources are and the things that 404 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,840 have changed in the last few years and the last couple of decades to be able to stay 405 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,840 up to date with all that. 406 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,200 So Howard, thank you once again. 407 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:09,200 Thank you. 408 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,320 We'll see you all next week on Did You Know? 409 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:31,720 The ESCO H-Fact Show.