1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,640 Welcome to the future technologies and innovations that sculpt our industry. 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:14,800 This episode recorded live at the 2024 AHR Expo with Nick Harbeck, manager of regulatory 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,040 affairs at Johnson Control, Ben Middleton, national sales training manager at Daikin, 4 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:23,000 and Derek Hall, director of commercial sales Fujitsu. 5 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,260 All right everyone, thank you for joining us once again on Did You Know? 6 00:00:26,260 --> 00:00:33,460 The Esco HVAC Show, broadcasting live from the 2024 AHR Expo here in Chicago, Illinois. 7 00:00:33,460 --> 00:00:37,320 So we're going to continue our conversation about workforce development and things that 8 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,560 are transitioning in our industry, especially with technology and refrigerants. 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,420 And we're joined by three of our major manufacturers. 10 00:00:43,420 --> 00:00:47,960 We have Johnson Controls, we have Daikin, we have Fujitsu, and it's an opportunity 11 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:53,000 for an entire industry to see that we are all evolving together. 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,880 So it's not just manufacturers that are making changes because they felt like it was 13 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:57,880 something new. 14 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,160 It's not chemical manufacturers changing the refrigerants because it's time to come 15 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:02,900 up with a new refrigerant, right? 16 00:01:02,900 --> 00:01:06,600 We're talking about international treaties, we're talking about acts of Congress, we 17 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:13,200 are making an effort to advance an entire industry in a relatively short period of time. 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,120 I always make the connection to like the automotive industry, right? 19 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,460 A lot of us grew up working on our own vehicles, we worked on carburetors, we adjusted distributors 20 00:01:21,460 --> 00:01:26,720 by using a timing light, and by the 1980s, 1990s, we wanted to make that internal combustion 21 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:27,760 engine more efficient. 22 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:32,120 So we just added solid state controls to measure temperatures and pressures, and we started 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,480 mapping them and we started making improvements to a relatively similar internal engine. 24 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,200 And that entire industry took a shift. 25 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:46,280 So I got to learn how to measure voltages on map sensors and measure resistance on temperature 26 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:51,800 sensors and EGR sensors as I was moving away from carburetors. 27 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:58,080 And by the time another decade came along, there wasn't any more carburetors, right? 28 00:01:58,080 --> 00:01:59,840 So the automotive industry made a shift. 29 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:04,800 And so we started seeing national certifications for technicians to be able to learn new technologies 30 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,780 because they had to, they had things to learn. 31 00:02:07,780 --> 00:02:11,660 And so we're seeing the exact same thing in the HVAC and refrigeration sectors. 32 00:02:11,660 --> 00:02:17,200 So we have a lot of new technologies that we're transitioning into that we have to 33 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:18,240 get comfortable with. 34 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,200 And so I'm so glad that we're all here talking about these things together. 35 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,840 So let's all introduce each other and a little bit of your background in the industry. 36 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:26,040 Let's go ahead and start with you, Nick. 37 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,040 Sure. 38 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:28,040 Thanks, Clifton. 39 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:29,040 Hi, my name is Nick Harbeck. 40 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,640 I'm a manager of regulatory and environmental affairs with Johnson Controls. 41 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:35,720 I've been in the industry for about seven years, mainly focused on the refrigerant transition, 42 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,800 like you mentioned, trying to see how we can kind of not only comply with regulations, 43 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,600 but push the envelope on what our company can do, what we can do as an industry and 44 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,360 kind of lead into the next generation of technologies that are coming out. 45 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:48,560 It's not just refrigerants alone. 46 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,800 It's not just training alone, it's not just pumps alone. 47 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:51,800 It's everything all together. 48 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:52,800 So looking forward to today's discussion. 49 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:53,800 Thank you. 50 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:54,800 Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. 51 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:55,800 My name is Ben Middleton. 52 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,840 I'm the national sales training manager for Daikin Comfort Technologies. 53 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,900 Been in the industry for a little bit over 25 years. 54 00:03:02,900 --> 00:03:06,000 And so I've seen a lot of changes that we've gone through. 55 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:12,040 Going from R22 to 410A, watching us go from a standing pilot in the furnaces and then 56 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,960 going into an intermittent and going in. 57 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:15,960 Yeah. 58 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:20,520 And so, you know, we've gone through a lot of transformative change within this industry 59 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,840 that we've seen over the last 25 years. 60 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,720 And it's exciting to see where the industry is going to be going in the next couple of 61 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:28,720 years. 62 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,120 I think change is only accelerating. 63 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,460 It's getting faster and faster and faster. 64 00:03:33,460 --> 00:03:36,960 But with all of that change comes a lot of opportunity for the contractors willing to 65 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,320 embrace that change and lead. 66 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,040 That's really what it comes down to is helping people understand the opportunities as a contractor, 67 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,820 as a distributor, as a training facility, as an educator, that there are lots of opportunities 68 00:03:47,820 --> 00:03:49,040 in all of this. 69 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:50,040 Absolutely. 70 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:51,040 Definitely. 71 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:52,040 And I'm Derrick Paul. 72 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,840 I'm the director of sales for commercial products for Fujitsu. 73 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,200 So I oversee the sales of the VRF products. 74 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,760 So if we talk about the transitions of refrigerants, we can make the change in the technology, 75 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:06,320 we can get it in the warehouse, but if the folks that I manage don't do what they do, 76 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,040 then it just stays in the warehouse. 77 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,980 So that implementation and getting it out in the field and understanding how to apply 78 00:04:10,980 --> 00:04:13,040 it is a critical component. 79 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,160 So I think it's great that you get kind of a wide range here between training, regulatory, 80 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:18,960 and understand the sales process. 81 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,880 Because we all know that in the absence of sales, there's no business here. 82 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:22,880 That is true. 83 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,480 We all need to sell something today. 84 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:30,040 And for me, I've been in the HVAC industry about 15 years, but you look at me and I'm 85 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,640 not that young of a guy, but my background is mechanical engineering. 86 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,240 I came out of school and I began my career working in manufacturing. 87 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,080 I started working in plants where we were going through and automating, taking out ladder 88 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:46,900 logic and relay driven logic in these plants to go into PLC logic. 89 00:04:46,900 --> 00:04:48,560 You mean another industry transition? 90 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:49,560 Oh my goodness. 91 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,200 But one of the valuable things is one of the things we were doing in that first manufacturing 92 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,840 plant I worked in was transitioning to variable speed drives. 93 00:04:57,840 --> 00:04:58,840 Yes. 94 00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:06,560 And my whole career was going from old DC based, real stat variable speed to solid state 95 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:11,960 VFD control of multiple devices within that manufacturing environment. 96 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:17,920 When I got into the HVAC industry and got into VRF, I read the data and I'm like, that's 97 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,320 exactly what I did when I got out of college. 98 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:21,520 It's the same stuff. 99 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,280 That's how VRF operates. 100 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:26,880 How you would operate a manufacturing facility. 101 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:27,880 It's all logic. 102 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,760 Walking into it with that background and that understanding has just been, it's a great 103 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,000 base to walk into the industry. 104 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,560 But we talk about moving to inverter driven equipment. 105 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,800 This is not a new move. 106 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,040 It's new move in HVAC for the last 15, 20 years, but this has been a move through all 107 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,920 industries for the last, it is 30 indeed. 108 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:49,920 So, yeah. 109 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,280 So every industry is making transitions right now. 110 00:05:52,280 --> 00:05:56,000 And I like to talk about these refrigerant transitions because our industry tends to 111 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,800 look at it going, well, why are we doing this? 112 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,240 No one else is not realizing everyone else is. 113 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:01,320 Right, right. 114 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,600 Everyone that uses a refrigerant is making a transition. 115 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,360 So it's understanding what that looks like and understanding that we are really doing 116 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:13,940 good in all of this and that we have the ability to impact the world that we live in by moving 117 00:06:13,940 --> 00:06:16,020 to modern technologies. 118 00:06:16,020 --> 00:06:19,440 Now the adapting to it is where we're struggling, right? 119 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,200 I always feel like we're ringing a bell and we're dragging an industry along because a 120 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,140 lot of people don't want to take the transition. 121 00:06:25,140 --> 00:06:30,200 One of the topics that kind of sparked this discussion is I had a podcast with a manufacturer 122 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:35,580 where we're talking about how in 2024, they were only going to have one model of contractor 123 00:06:35,580 --> 00:06:38,780 driven single stage outdoor units for residential. 124 00:06:38,780 --> 00:06:42,120 Everything else is going to be inverter or combination inverter and contactor on high 125 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:43,120 speed. 126 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,080 And then we had calls from educators, we had calls from contractors saying, I think I'll 127 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,040 just change brands this year. 128 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,380 And I went, you know what? 129 00:06:51,380 --> 00:06:55,840 I have some different manufacturers and different brands and I think we should all get together 130 00:06:55,840 --> 00:07:00,360 and paint the picture that we are all transitioning together. 131 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,620 You either make this transition or it's going to bypass you. 132 00:07:03,620 --> 00:07:07,840 For 12 years, we've been walking out to contractors and been having that communication. 133 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:10,040 This is the direction it's going. 134 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,280 The contactor is going to disappear and you're going to go to solid state electronics and 135 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:14,860 variable speed. 136 00:07:14,860 --> 00:07:15,860 It's coming. 137 00:07:15,860 --> 00:07:19,480 You need to make that transition earlier rather than later, or you'll watch your competitor 138 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:20,740 take your business. 139 00:07:20,740 --> 00:07:22,460 So let's talk about that a little bit. 140 00:07:22,460 --> 00:07:27,960 Let's talk about efforts that each of our manufacturers are doing to move towards inverter 141 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:28,960 technology. 142 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:33,220 So when we talk about inverter technology, yes, we're talking about a principle so we 143 00:07:33,220 --> 00:07:35,800 could all teach on inverter technology. 144 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,320 When we get to the equipment itself, then we start getting specifics, right? 145 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,840 And so that's where we have to make sure that, yes, we got to bring our inverters into the 146 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:45,840 classrooms. 147 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,720 We've got to understand how they're operating, but we also have to have the right resources 148 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,620 for the equipment that we're working on. 149 00:07:51,620 --> 00:07:53,860 So Nick, let's start with JCI. 150 00:07:53,860 --> 00:07:57,360 Let's talk about what you are seeing in the residential inverter sector. 151 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,080 Yeah, great question, Clifton. 152 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,480 And I think the main theme here is growth, right? 153 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:06,180 There's been a huge increase in uptake on folks wanting to use this new technology. 154 00:08:06,180 --> 00:08:11,660 And frankly, requires effort on both the manufacturer's side of things and the contractor and installer. 155 00:08:11,660 --> 00:08:16,080 We have a responsibility to provide training related to the actual products itself. 156 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,920 We've been recently revamping a lot of our training programs to that end, but we also 157 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:21,700 have to have the technology available. 158 00:08:21,700 --> 00:08:25,460 So when we're talking about transitions, we have, you know, you know, compressor specific 159 00:08:25,460 --> 00:08:29,900 transitions and refrigerant specific transitions and new product improvements that all are 160 00:08:29,900 --> 00:08:31,180 kind of happening in constant... 161 00:08:31,180 --> 00:08:32,180 Same time. 162 00:08:32,180 --> 00:08:34,400 Same time, which, you know, provides somewhat of an opportunity. 163 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:35,400 Oh, yeah. 164 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:36,960 Whereas if you can do all of this thing at the same time... 165 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,040 It's one class. 166 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,160 Getting the one training up now covers all these different things. 167 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,100 So we have obviously new product launches coming out that are featuring all of these 168 00:08:44,100 --> 00:08:47,840 new technologies simultaneously, and the training is commensurate with that. 169 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,320 So it's being able to take a look at, hey, new product X is coming out in July. 170 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,500 How can we get everybody up to speed to this and get it in people's homes to save energy 171 00:08:55,500 --> 00:08:56,960 and money at the end of the day? 172 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:57,960 Yeah. 173 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,400 One of the big challenges that we see is there are facets to this, right? 174 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,240 You've got your salespeople that need to be trained. 175 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,040 You've got your technicians that need to be trained. 176 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,440 And then even the people in the back office and in the office that need to understand 177 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:10,640 what to do. 178 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,800 The prices have been going up in equipment. 179 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,180 There's no secret. 180 00:09:14,180 --> 00:09:16,920 As we're looking at the technology improving. 181 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,520 So then comes in the question of affordability. 182 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,840 And so some of the pricing models, you have to look at how is a contractor going to be 183 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,880 profitable as they continue to offer inverters and they're still making them affordable for 184 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:27,880 the homeowner out there. 185 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,760 And so there has to be a lot of education on that side of the business. 186 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:36,480 There has to be a lot of education for the salespeople on how they talk to consumers. 187 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:41,900 So often, even today, there's a lot of contractors whose comfort advisors or selling technicians 188 00:09:41,900 --> 00:09:46,280 go out into the home or even into a business and they make assumptions that the homeowner 189 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,340 wants the lowest price. 190 00:09:48,340 --> 00:09:50,680 And so they don't even offer all of the options that are available. 191 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:53,200 And there's the application side. 192 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,720 As the equipment becomes more advanced, more technical, the tolerances become a lot more 193 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:58,720 tighter. 194 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:04,280 And so if you had a system that was, you know, that you had 10 or 12 years put in and it 195 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,280 was a single stage system, let's say it was a CSE driven running on an inch of static, 196 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,820 let's say it was a three ton system, you may not be able to go ahead and put in a three 197 00:10:12,820 --> 00:10:14,200 ton inverter there. 198 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,840 And so it's so important to do a heating and cooling load to make sure that you're matching 199 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:18,840 up the equipment. 200 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:24,800 You're looking at the AHRI data and then the airflow requirements are absolutely critical 201 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,380 when you get into inverter driven systems, making sure you're delivering the beat to 202 00:10:28,380 --> 00:10:32,420 use that you're, that you want to deliver and that the system is performing the way 203 00:10:32,420 --> 00:10:36,120 and getting the efficiency that you had promised with that inverter system. 204 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:40,320 And so the application side is really, really important as we start to educate contractors 205 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:41,480 on that side of it. 206 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,720 And then of course there's the commissioning. 207 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,680 When the technicians or the installers are going out, it used to be, okay, we're going 208 00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:48,640 to set it and forget it. 209 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,900 And the system, it worked, even if it wasn't set up absolutely perfectly. 210 00:10:52,900 --> 00:10:57,960 But now we're starting to see when the technicians are putting in that commissioning is so critical. 211 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:59,560 So it's all of those pieces. 212 00:10:59,560 --> 00:11:05,840 It's the pricing, it's the promotion of, it's the marketing that you're doing. 213 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,520 It's the app sales at the end application. 214 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,480 And then it's the final install and commissioning. 215 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,820 You know, Derek, you can probably speak on this one. 216 00:11:13,820 --> 00:11:17,720 One of the things, it kind of goes hand in hand with this as we're talking about contractors 217 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,080 that are now working with technologies. 218 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:27,640 I personally think that the residential should start looking at a third job role. 219 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:32,560 When we talk traditionally in residential contracting, we talk about installation and 220 00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:34,080 we talk about service. 221 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,720 So when we're talking about commercial VRV, VRF systems, that's really not the case. 222 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:44,440 A lot of times we have a third person in there that is more of a commissioning technician. 223 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,080 And I'm sure you see a lot of that in the commercial side. 224 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:52,160 You see that as being a potential new job opportunity in the residential sector. 225 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:53,600 I think it could be. 226 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:58,480 Kind of going back to what some of the other guys were saying, if you really look at residentially, 227 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,940 we apply our single phase VRF products residentially on a consistent basis. 228 00:12:02,940 --> 00:12:08,180 One of the largest hurdles we face is the preconceived idea of what the product is. 229 00:12:08,180 --> 00:12:10,240 So everyone says, hey, we're going to go ductless. 230 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:17,720 I've got a 4,500 square foot house and I've got 22 rooms, so I need 22 wall mounts. 231 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,160 When you talk about price and applying the product, that's when you bump into that price. 232 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,720 That's really cost prohibitive. 233 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,360 We also make ducted systems. 234 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:31,960 And if you look at all of us, one of our largest growth points has been in the ducted side 235 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:32,960 of the business. 236 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,160 I always tell the folks on our team, we don't live like the Japanese. 237 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,140 We're not in a 300 square foot apartment. 238 00:12:39,140 --> 00:12:42,000 We typically have a, we spread out a little bit more. 239 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,680 So understand how to apply it. 240 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:49,960 But going back to that, the commissioning or that, I believe you will reach a point. 241 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,920 We've already seen this in some municipalities in some areas where you've always got that 242 00:12:54,920 --> 00:13:00,600 backside commissioning confirmation of the performance of the system. 243 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,320 We're seeing that really in the areas that are driven off of rebates. 244 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,400 In North America where a rebate's a deal, it's a deal. 245 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,620 And where it's not, they've never heard of it. 246 00:13:08,620 --> 00:13:11,360 But it's really dependent upon what area of the country you're in. 247 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,520 But I think that's where you'll see that is that confirmation for those rebates to go 248 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:15,520 back in. 249 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:20,280 I mean, we've seen some situations where maybe they needed three tons and they put 10 tons 250 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,720 in because they could get all the money for that. 251 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,080 So that's one of those things that I do. 252 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:29,200 Those rebates drive that confirmation on the backside. 253 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:33,000 The other big piece on that, when you take a look at commercial versus residential, you 254 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:38,200 have that also position of that designer engineer that designs the system. 255 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:42,560 And so when I take a look at residential, one of the things I've been saying, instead 256 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:46,600 of saying we have comfort advisors, we're almost kind of moving away from that into 257 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:51,800 a comfort engineer, somebody that's coming in there and is doing all of the calculations 258 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:53,960 with the homeowner. 259 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,800 And just imagine how that differentiates you. 260 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,560 And I talked about this, alluded to it before. 261 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:04,000 Those contractors that get on in the early leading edge of this and are part of that 262 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:09,560 early majority as far as adopters are going to be able to realize the most in terms of 263 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:11,880 margin and profitability. 264 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:16,200 Once you get on the back end of that and you're a late adopter or even a laggard with the 265 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,520 technology, that's when everything has become commoditized and the profit margins aren't 266 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:21,520 there. 267 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,800 And so you want to make sure that you're leading and moving forward instead of waiting and 268 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,920 seeing how everybody else does this and then trying to play catch up. 269 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,200 One quick point just on these rebates that we're talking about. 270 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,200 Ben, you mentioned affordability before as well. 271 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,320 We've seen a huge upswell in the amount of rebates that are available, whether it's federal, 272 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,160 state, local, et cetera. 273 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,840 And based on some analysis we've done, frankly, to get some of these rebates for heat pumps, 274 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:49,240 for example, it's going to require things that are CER2 17.2 and above and you have 275 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:50,600 to be an inverter to hit that. 276 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:51,600 Absolutely. 277 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,840 And that's where this new technology is really key and I mean, once again, bouncing back 278 00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:00,480 into heat pumps a little bit, how can we make sure that we're minimizing callbacks on customer 279 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:01,480 complaints? 280 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,040 Getting refrigerant charge dialed in on a heat pump is so important because of that 281 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,600 zero sum relationship between cooling and heating optimization. 282 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,440 So you want to make sure the customer is happy and they can save a lot of money, but to do 283 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,680 that you got to be properly trained in the new technology. 284 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,080 And that brings up a good question. 285 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,600 I ask a lot of contractors, I ask a lot of educators about this. 286 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:26,400 Now from a manufacturer perspective, do you think it's time that we really start focusing 287 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,960 on a nationally recognized certification for inverter commissioning installation? 288 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:35,520 You know, when we talk about that transition that happened in the automotive, ASE kind 289 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,680 of took a forefront and said, hey, we have new technologies. 290 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:44,060 Not only do you need to be trained, you have to be trained and the consumer is going to 291 00:15:44,060 --> 00:15:48,660 expect that you have had training for the products that you're going to be selling. 292 00:15:48,660 --> 00:15:51,880 I would love to see that happening in our industry. 293 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:56,240 If it doesn't, I still promote that we've got to get comfortable with this technology 294 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,200 because it really is the transition that we are seeing right now. 295 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:04,360 I mean, let's talk about how inverters have changed the product lines for residential. 296 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:09,680 What have each of you seen for the transition in residential based on inverts? 297 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,480 Because I know one manufacturer I talked to, they said that two years ago they were about 298 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,240 30% inverter and 70% single stage. 299 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,640 And they're anticipating for 2024 for that to be inverted and to be about 70% inverter 300 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,920 sales and 30% single stage sales. 301 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:30,000 Well, for me, it's almost, that's what we sell is inverter driven equipment. 302 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,720 So we've been forward with that equipment. 303 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,960 And as we look over our shoulder, we see the traditional unitary manufacturers in North 304 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,720 America, you see them coming into it. 305 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,680 And I think 10 years ago, there were a lot of struggles in that transition into the inverters. 306 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:50,040 If you look at everyone that was using a Copeland inverter scroll, there was a learning there 307 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,320 that there's a lot of firmware updates. 308 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,760 There was a lot of board changes because it was a new product. 309 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:01,240 And anytime you're dealing with new technology, there's a learning process there that you 310 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,120 need to get the experience. 311 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,800 Experiences, I always say the hard thing, bad thing about experience is only one way 312 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:07,800 to get it. 313 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:08,800 Right. 314 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,960 So what we've seen is the unitary manufacturers with that 10, 12 years experience are going, 315 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,720 okay, now we know better how to design with this equipment. 316 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:21,560 And we're starting to see traditional unitary manufacturers transition more to that horizontal 317 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:26,560 draw through footprint so that you can actually get the unit in the backyard and not over 318 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:27,560 the fence. 319 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:28,560 Yeah, and get it through the gate. 320 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:29,560 Yeah. 321 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:30,560 Yeah. 322 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,600 When you look at that adoption curve that I was talking about on the very bleeding edge 323 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,040 is the innovator. 324 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,360 And so I think we've had the innovators that have been out there that to your point have 325 00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:44,080 been really helping us to learn how to put together what we need to do. 326 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:48,360 And that's why I talk about we're in this phase of this early adopter phase right now 327 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:53,480 where the innovators have kind of blazed the trail and really started to make it easier 328 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,440 for contractors to get into this early adopter phase. 329 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:58,760 And it's exciting. 330 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,960 There's so many tailwinds that are driving all this right now. 331 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:06,680 You talked about regulation, you take a look at the promise of what's happening with the 332 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,560 IRA and eventually that's going to be coming rolling out into the states. 333 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,000 And so I know we're going to see a lot of push for heat pumps and electrification with 334 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,000 that. 335 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:20,800 I think there's over 2700 different utility rebate programs right now across North America. 336 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:25,680 And so there's a lot of opportunity that we see with that as far as again, driving towards 337 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,640 inverter technology, driving towards heat pump. 338 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,080 And we're even starting to see builders that are really embracing this at a high level. 339 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:37,080 And you see even in New York and what you would typically think as cold weather climates 340 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,960 where there's whole entire subdivisions that don't even have gas that's run into it. 341 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:47,040 And so we're really seeing all of these tailwinds really starting to push towards this technology 342 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,720 creating a ton of opportunity. 343 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,600 I just agree and echo what everybody said. 344 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,600 I mean, Clifton, to your point earlier, it really is a switch in the way that it is. 345 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,880 The uptake of these new technologies as they're being born out. 346 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,280 And even more than just like the true performance benefits of this new inverter stuff, we see 347 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:04,280 other benefits too. 348 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,640 The sizing of the outdoor unit is changing, which makes it sometimes easier in some applications 349 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:13,920 and sound, for example, we've seen some states require really strict noise level restrictions. 350 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:14,920 And now you have a solution. 351 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:15,920 Yeah. 352 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:17,000 Oh, you want me to tune this? 353 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,000 No problem. 354 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,200 Let me tune this thing. 355 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:24,440 And that's why I'm talking about that transition that horizontal draw through footprint. 356 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,020 Traditional unitary manufacturer says an outdoor unit should look like this. 357 00:19:28,020 --> 00:19:32,280 So to get that efficiency, it gets a four foot by four foot and it's eight foot tall. 358 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:33,600 And you go, what size is that? 359 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,920 It was three tons. 360 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,280 It's bigger than the gate. 361 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:38,280 Right, right. 362 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:39,280 Absolutely. 363 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:43,880 You know, one of the things I like to bring to the awareness of young technicians coming 364 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,480 into the industry is the opportunity for them as well. 365 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:52,040 That's why I encourage our programs to really move into the technology because our young 366 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:58,000 technicians that grew up, you know, with electronics, they understand how to work with 367 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,160 communicating equipment, right? 368 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,280 May not be in the HVAC system, but they understand how communication devices work. 369 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,040 They're built on technology. 370 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:11,160 And then we have the young automotive technicians that learned that, oh, I can take a product 371 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,360 and I can become really good at tuning a product. 372 00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:19,040 And I tell our HVAC technicians, our up and coming technicians, did you know that you 373 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,080 could be that person in our industry? 374 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,160 Because with inverter technology, it's not a cookie cutter product like it has been in 375 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:26,160 the past. 376 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,480 In a single stage or two stage unit, I had limited capability with it. 377 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,120 I had to design my system around the BTUs that it would produce. 378 00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:35,280 Hopefully I could get my airflow set properly. 379 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,280 Hopefully I can get my charge set properly. 380 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,320 Hopefully I can do what that product was designed to do. 381 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,800 With inverters, now we can custom tune things. 382 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:48,480 I can take an inverter and I can set so many points within that piece of equipment that 383 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:56,640 I can now take a product and I can fine tune and I can custom tailor that and I can get 384 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:01,480 a product that can do so much more than the product selections that we have had in the 385 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:02,480 past. 386 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,960 And so I always encourage these technicians, think outside of the box as a contractor, 387 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,320 think outside of the box. 388 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,300 Think about what you can do with this piece of technology, not just what that technology 389 00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:13,520 has done for you. 390 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:18,600 Well, I think the big thing is also the combinations of hardware, right, if you will? 391 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:19,600 Yes. 392 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,840 I mean, you have so many choices of outdoor units, indoor units, and so many different 393 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:32,040 combinations of what you can do, which again, it gives these unlimited almost possibilities 394 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:33,120 as far as what you can do. 395 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:36,880 But the other thing is it really does have to be designed. 396 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:42,080 And so what I think is exciting, there's a lot of people that are saying, well, I don't 397 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,400 know if I want to get into the blue collar trades. 398 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,160 I mean, one of the biggest challenges we've had in our industry for a long time is the 399 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:50,160 skills gap, right? 400 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:51,160 Absolutely. 401 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:56,320 But now as you start to look at technology coming into it and you start to look at how 402 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:01,120 training is evolving and changing, I think there's a huge opportunity for us to get more 403 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:07,520 people excited about coming into the trades and into the field because it's not, there's 404 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,640 still the manual labor of working in crawl spaces and working in edX. 405 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:13,640 That's not going to go away. 406 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,320 That'll never go away in our career. 407 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:21,240 But there is so much opportunity to work with technology and with that is also going to 408 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:27,320 come higher wages and as the skill sets develop, which will be more attractive to people coming 409 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,880 into our industry. 410 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,520 How are you investing in yourself? 411 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:33,520 Indeed. 412 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:38,440 Do you want a job, do you want to trade, do you want a skill? 413 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:43,360 If you're not investing in yourself long term, if you don't put money in the bank, your returns 414 00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:44,600 are probably very low. 415 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,400 So if you're not investing in yourself the same way, whether that's learning more about 416 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:54,320 the industry, learning more about the trade, even if from my standpoint being an engineer, 417 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,880 are you spending the time to expand your knowledge and understanding of the product? 418 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,760 Do you spend time going through the manuals? 419 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,880 One of the best documents we make is a service manual. 420 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:10,480 All the time we'll have a technician go, you won't really tell us how it works. 421 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:11,480 Read that book. 422 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:12,480 That's how I've got where I am. 423 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:13,480 It goes into great detail. 424 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:14,480 Right. 425 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:15,480 My manual. 426 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,120 If you'll read it, you'll be the most knowledgeable guy for about 15 miles. 427 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:19,120 Absolutely. 428 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:22,320 And the early movers get recognized and compensated. 429 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,320 Sure they will. 430 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:24,320 Appropriately. 431 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:25,320 I'm from Minnesota. 432 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,280 There's a program there called the Center for Energy and the Environment. 433 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,280 There's a whole dedicated section of the website that works with our state energy office to 434 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:38,040 make sure that the installers and contractors that can install and do this equipment are 435 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,760 listed there in the first ones that people call when they're trying to upgrade their 436 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:41,760 home. 437 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,940 I see a lot more of that going forward. 438 00:23:44,940 --> 00:23:46,720 Let's talk about training just for a minute. 439 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:51,740 One of the things that I think is very important for contractors and educators to understand 440 00:23:51,740 --> 00:23:54,480 is that there are resources for you. 441 00:23:54,480 --> 00:24:00,360 We do this kind of communication to help you know where you can go for resources. 442 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:05,960 If I am a school and I'm looking to bring inverters into my program, I should know that 443 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,480 I've got my manufacturers to help me along with this. 444 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:15,100 I'm sure you can all tell us how much training has escalated for you in this year. 445 00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:19,320 Let's talk about this for just a second so that people understand that the training from 446 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,840 the manufacturers is very much alive when you go to look for that. 447 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,320 Yeah, I mean I can maybe start here but I'm sure Ben and Derek have a lot more to say. 448 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,420 We've completely revamped our training programs. 449 00:24:30,420 --> 00:24:34,560 We have a Ducted Systems Academy and we've transformed it holistically. 450 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,800 So you can dive deep into working with residential systems whether it's inverter specific products, 451 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,680 furnaces, etc. but it's critical to getting this transition happening faster. 452 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,840 Yes, and so what's the connection for that? 453 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,720 Where would people go to look for that? 454 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,920 I mean there's a website not to shill. 455 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:51,920 You can check the website. 456 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,000 We apply it through some of our partnerships. 457 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,320 So we have a community college partnership program with a couple dozen colleges around 458 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,440 the United States and we're in the field working with our suppliers and distributors to make 459 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,280 sure that this information is getting out and getting out rapidly. 460 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:05,280 Excellent. 461 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:11,520 So I mean I run the HVAC Learning Campus so it's hvaclearningcampus.com and on there we 462 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,120 really look at a lot of different things. 463 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:17,400 People are looking for information in many different forms. 464 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,200 I think it's still very important to have the live in-person hands-on training and we're 465 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:28,120 building training classes all over North, or training locations all over North America 466 00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:31,040 to make sure that we help to lift the skills of heat pumps. 467 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,600 But then we live in a TikTok generation. 468 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:38,160 You look at a lot of the younger people that are out there right now and so we partner 469 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:43,480 up with people like XOI Technologies and are able when they're on the job site they can 470 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:48,360 just go ahead and click on the QR code that's on the unit and that will bring up all the 471 00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:51,600 installation manuals and everything else because we're finding, guess what, a lot of people 472 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:57,760 don't read the books but they want to have these quick little 15-20 second videos that 473 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,600 shows hey where do I put this wire, how do I do that and so makes it very simple, very 474 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:03,600 easy. 475 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,760 And then we also see that VR technology is becoming bigger and bigger. 476 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,320 A lot of VR in the last year. 477 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:16,520 We saw just all kinds of VR technologies that were happening out there at the CES show but 478 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:22,560 with VR you're able to still do that experiential learning where they're in there and they're 479 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,240 getting that muscle memory and building that as they're working with the thing. 480 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,800 So that reinforces what they learned in the classroom or how many times have you set up 481 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:36,000 a workshop and the person wants to come and it gets hot or cold that day and now they 482 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,000 can't show up to that live class. 483 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,600 Nice thing about VR, it's on demand and so it's something that they can do when they 484 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:46,780 are slow and they can continue to learn the skills that they need to learn to be effective 485 00:26:46,780 --> 00:26:47,780 out there. 486 00:26:47,780 --> 00:26:49,080 So I think it's expanding. 487 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,600 It's definitely leveraging technology as we continue to move forward. 488 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:54,600 Absolutely it is. 489 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,760 Well, my dad's 80 years old. 490 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,440 Anytime anything breaks, what's his resource for the repair? 491 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:01,440 YouTube probably. 492 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:02,440 YouTube. 493 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,360 So you go well that's not really a resource to go to. 494 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:08,840 We're in that crowd-sourced environment. 495 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:14,120 That's where we're getting a lot of that transfer of data. 496 00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:18,260 Doesn't mean you always get the best data but there's enough volume out of it out there 497 00:27:18,260 --> 00:27:20,600 and we're starting to see more on the contracting side. 498 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,600 You say the TikTok generation. 499 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:27,960 We have people that do great jobs that they want to build the community. 500 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,560 They want to build the trade. 501 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:35,120 So they like to demonstrate the ability to do projects and a lot of times they're giving 502 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:38,440 that kind of feedback on your systems. 503 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:43,480 In this environment, the way the world is today, if you're not utilizing those resources 504 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:49,080 then you're bypassing that helpful guy that wants to share his knowledge with you. 505 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:50,080 I think that's a positive. 506 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:55,200 Like the type ran of the world ties out here somewhere with us. 507 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,080 We were at Hardy recently and Hardy was talking about the A2L transition. 508 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,240 They've actually got a chat bot that they're going to promote to the members to where that 509 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:09,640 you can go to the chat bot and have it explain to you everything you need to know about A2Ls 510 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,640 in a conversational format. 511 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,800 We have to understand that that's the future of our industry too. 512 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:19,240 I know there's some discussions of you think about traditional scheduling techniques for 513 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,640 commercial buildings. 514 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,000 That's always been kind of graphical. 515 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:29,840 It's been like trying to solve a three-dimensional puzzle. 516 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,560 We're going to move to the point where you'll just ask it to go, this is how I work. 517 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,640 Could you make sure I'm comfortable? 518 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,480 That technology is going to be on the backside of it. 519 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:44,720 We're working on cloud-based controls technologies to where we can have that sort of edge computing 520 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,680 model to where we bring the data in and we can have on the backside through resources 521 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:57,440 like on AWS to where you've got those machine learning AI models that drive that. 522 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,920 We're not really there yet, but that's the direction we're going to. 523 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,920 That's another transition that we will see as an industry. 524 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,680 Everybody wanted a Nest thermostat because they supposedly learned how to live. 525 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,560 They get it and the backside of it wasn't that great. 526 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:17,560 It was confused when you wanted to be warm and when you wanted to be cold. 527 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:18,560 People get mad at them. 528 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,320 I think as that technology advances, that's what you're going to see. 529 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:23,320 Absolutely. 530 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,680 You just mentioned another thing too that we should probably talk about. 531 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,400 When we're talking about transitions, we spend a lot of time talking about equipment transitions, 532 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,720 but we are all going through refrigerant transitions as well. 533 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:39,120 As technicians and as educators, we have to understand that it's not like when we went 534 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:46,360 through our R22 phase out where we had a product in place, a singular product to replace R22 535 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,160 as a primary new refrigerant. 536 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:53,080 As we make these transitions, we're going to see a variety of refrigerants being used 537 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,080 in equipment. 538 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,520 We're going to see some manufacturers using multiple refrigerants. 539 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:01,920 Can we talk just a little bit about what we're seeing for A2O refrigerants going into residential 540 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,040 and maybe even commercial products for this next year? 541 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:10,440 For us, for our residential products, we're taking that tack towards more of the R32. 542 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:18,680 If you look at it, it's a technology that we have long-term knowledge of. 543 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,360 This is not the first time we've built R32 equipment. 544 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,080 We've sold this equipment worldwide for multiple years. 545 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,760 I know every manufacturer has done that, especially the ones for the Asian manufacturers. 546 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,560 For us, it's a natural transition. 547 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:39,240 The big thing for us in North America is our building codes don't necessarily play very 548 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:40,720 well with that A2O refrigerant. 549 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:41,720 I know. 550 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:42,720 We're all struggling with it. 551 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,480 You think in this transition, I think that's what you're going to see is we're going to 552 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:46,480 make the transition. 553 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,040 Then we're going to have to work on the building codes to understand what is really safe and 554 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,960 how do we protect the consumer? 555 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,880 How do we make a safe building? 556 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,080 Right now, the codes aren't very friendly to it. 557 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,400 We'll see a lot of R32 in Fujitsu. 558 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,080 Deichen, of course. 559 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,160 We should see probably 32. 560 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,520 We looked at all of the options that were out there and we wanted to figure out what 561 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,760 we figured would be the best as we looked at the North American market. 562 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,240 Like Fujitsu, we have a lot of experience with R32. 563 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:22,880 It's been out in the market since 2012 and so it's been there for a long time. 564 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:28,040 We looked at, and what I would say the biggest challenge right now with the refrigerants 565 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:29,960 is making sure contractors know the facts. 566 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:30,960 Oh, absolutely. 567 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:35,720 There's a ton of misinformation that has been floating around. 568 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,440 I still hear contractors say, we're going to Propane. 569 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:40,440 Wait a second. 570 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,000 Well, we're not going to Propane. 571 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,600 It's an A2L. 572 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,160 So there's a difference. 573 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,920 It's not an A3. 574 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,360 Just helping contractors understand what an A2L is, I'm sure there's going to be consumers 575 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,000 that may have some concern. 576 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,760 What's this fine little sticker on my equipment? 577 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,640 Somebody get me a different box. 578 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:06,000 That education process to consumers, I think there's a lot of scare tactics out there as 579 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,760 far as when are things going to be phased down and what's happening there. 580 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:16,160 So again, just being very factual I think is the most important thing that everybody 581 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:23,040 can do out there in laying out the facts that the reason we're going to an A2L is because 582 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,040 we're trying to get the global warming potential down. 583 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,440 We're trying to look at the environment. 584 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,240 Dyken looked at it and we said there's two sides to the equation. 585 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:37,600 There's the direct impact from the chemical and there's also the indirect impact from 586 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,760 the overall life cycle of the system. 587 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:44,000 So we like to look at the life cycle climate performance and really where are we going 588 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,800 to get the most efficiency? 589 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,120 Where are we going to be able to use the least amount of refrigerant? 590 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:54,800 Where are we going to be able to maybe make smaller units use less commodities in the 591 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,160 building and the manufacturing of the product? 592 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:02,380 And when we put all of those pieces together, we decided R32 seemed to be the best choice 593 00:33:02,380 --> 00:33:06,000 for us even though it's not the easiest transition. 594 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:13,200 From 410A to R32, there's a lot of engineering and design work that needs to go on. 595 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:20,360 When you're going from 410A to 454B, that almost can work like a drop in and can be 596 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:21,760 easier for a manufacturer. 597 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:27,400 But we kind of decided we wanted to take the hard path because we believe long term that's 598 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,080 the right solution to move to. 599 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,480 And what about Johnson Controls, Nick? 600 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,880 Yeah, likewise we're also going to be using R32 in some applications but then you did 601 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,120 touch on it a little bit, R454B is primarily going to be the solution you'll probably see 602 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:44,680 for most residential and light commercial products for a couple of reasons. 603 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,920 Like you mentioned, Ben, it's very similar to R410A which is nice from an application 604 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:49,920 perspective. 605 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:50,920 Yeah, absolutely. 606 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,600 Now, it's like a drop in, it's not a drop in because of that A2L characteristic but 607 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,120 being able to use a similar operating pressures, having similar experience with the compressor 608 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,920 itself is we think going to be useful and handy. 609 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,760 And back to the ultimate goal of what this transition is trying to do is lower GWP. 610 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,840 Having that lower global wiring potential threshold on R454B we think is going to be 611 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,760 advantageous for the US as a whole. 612 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:17,240 I mean, Clifton, you mentioned there's a phase down happening with this refrigerant transition. 613 00:34:17,240 --> 00:34:22,840 So finding ways to get the GWP as low as possible while still maintaining the serviceability 614 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,560 of existing equipment and future equipment that gets installed is going to be critically 615 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,320 important whether that's through the technology transitions that we have manufacturers are 616 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,680 making or within the recovery of refrigerant within the field. 617 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,480 And so the more we can do everything all at the same time, the better served will be going 618 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,720 into 2036, 2040, et cetera. 619 00:34:39,720 --> 00:34:40,720 Yeah, absolutely. 620 00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:42,040 We're actually going to be spending some time. 621 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,720 Jason Objute from our team is going to be doing a podcast on Wednesday and we're going 622 00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:47,840 to be specifically talking about just refrigerant. 623 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:48,840 Perfect. 624 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,240 So a lot to talk about in the industry. 625 00:34:51,240 --> 00:34:56,160 While we've got a little bit of time left, one topic that I like to bring up and people 626 00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:01,960 think I'm crazy, but I love monoblock air to water heat pumps. 627 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:02,960 So exciting. 628 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,880 So the technology is being used internationally. 629 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:12,240 We even see A3 applications of it because now we don't have refrigerant in the structure 630 00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:16,160 at all, which changes the entire building code perspective. 631 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,780 I got to see quite a few last year at AHR. 632 00:35:19,780 --> 00:35:22,840 Am I going to see more of them this year? 633 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,560 I think the answer is yes, yes, and yes from all of us. 634 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,880 Yeah, I mean, we're also very excited. 635 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,120 This is a huge opportunity for the United States. 636 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:36,020 We'll be launching a product this year, probably likely around March and being able to address 637 00:35:36,020 --> 00:35:39,800 a entirely, I guess, unaddressed market in the past. 638 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,800 New England, anybody living in New England, there's a solution. 639 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,200 And now we're on your radiators off. 640 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,200 Right. 641 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:47,200 You have a boiler. 642 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:48,200 We have a drop in solution for you. 643 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:49,200 It's amazing. 644 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:50,200 Let's talk about this. 645 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:56,440 Okay, so we will be seeing some air to water monoblock, probably heat pump technology coming 646 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:57,480 from Johnson Controls. 647 00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:58,480 What about Dyken? 648 00:35:58,480 --> 00:35:59,960 Yeah, we've got the product here. 649 00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:00,960 It's in the booth. 650 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,680 So I encourage everybody to stop by and take a look. 651 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,160 We've got our L-Therma product. 652 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,520 We're very excited about that. 653 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:13,120 You know, it's a technology we've been using in Europe for a long time and it definitely 654 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,560 has worked well in that market. 655 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:20,160 And to your point, very excited about New England and what we can do in that market. 656 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:25,800 Also, in the upper Midwest, there's a ton of influradian systems and other systems that 657 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,880 people are going to be able to take advantage, not only of the efficiency, but also the space 658 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:31,880 savings. 659 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:32,880 Oh, absolutely. 660 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:33,880 Yeah. 661 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:34,880 The capabilities of it. 662 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:35,880 Yes. 663 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,200 It just opens up a whole new opportunity for system designing that we're talking about 664 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:40,200 before. 665 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:41,200 What about in Fujitsu? 666 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,640 Well, Fujitsu globally sells air to water systems. 667 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:48,120 I'm looking at what, you know, on the commercial side of the business that I support, it's 668 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:53,280 really interesting because when you get out in the field, what gets asked for varies depending 669 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,280 upon where you're at. 670 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:55,280 Oh, yeah. 671 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:56,280 Absolutely. 672 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,440 Some place they want residential, you know, domestic hot water and some place they want 673 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:04,260 to be able to use it for, you know, for other heating, you know, domestic heating. 674 00:37:04,260 --> 00:37:08,520 When you look on the commercial side, there's, I think we're in Cooling here, there's a 675 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,000 lot of BTUs we can grab and use in the facility. 676 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,000 So I think we're looking at the multiple different ways in which we could get into a platform 677 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,960 to be able to support that. 678 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,680 But like you said, if you go into an environment where they say we're going to decarbonize, 679 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,800 you can't put in gas. 680 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,920 So now I've got to heat my water with electric resistance and, you know, that really low 681 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:29,920 COP there. 682 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:30,920 Yes. 683 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:31,920 Right. 684 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:32,920 Sure. 685 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,360 Well, I personally see that as being a technology for us to be prepared for. 686 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,520 I think it's going to come faster than most people anticipate. 687 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:44,740 I anticipate that all of them will be inverter because those are very high performing systems. 688 00:37:44,740 --> 00:37:49,280 So it just pushes that drive to understand what inverter technology is, to get comfortable 689 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:54,000 with it now, introduce it into the classroom, get our technicians, bring our existing technicians 690 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,520 into this new understanding of a technology. 691 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,960 Because I can be the best technician in the field, but if I've never walked up to an 692 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,280 inverter, I've got a lot of training and a lot of catch up to do because it's a different 693 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:08,280 animal. 694 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:09,520 It operates differently. 695 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:17,640 It runs at a internal control that is much like an automobile where it's measuring temperatures, 696 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,720 it's measuring pressures, it's trying to optimize itself. 697 00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:26,520 And so it will run characteristically different than a traditional single stage or two stage, 698 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,040 you know, non-variable capacity system. 699 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,640 So a lot of new opportunities in our industry. 700 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:33,640 Absolutely. 701 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,480 We talk about contractors. 702 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,740 Contractors take advantage of these new opportunities. 703 00:38:37,740 --> 00:38:38,740 What about a school? 704 00:38:38,740 --> 00:38:43,240 If I'm a school, why wouldn't I be taking advantage of new opportunities to prepare 705 00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:46,760 students to be able to have them ready for placement in the industry? 706 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,880 So as an entire industry, we have a lot of education to do. 707 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:55,800 We have a lot of new technologies. 708 00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:01,120 Let's talk about ways that an industry can move forward together. 709 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,440 I know we're going to see Fujitsu, we're going to see Johnson Controls, we're going to see 710 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,200 Daikin moving into this. 711 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,840 Let's talk about continuing resources. 712 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:18,120 So I know within each of our training departments, with each of our manufacturers, we have training 713 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:19,400 that's available digitally. 714 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,640 We kind of talked about some of these resources. 715 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:29,860 Do you see manufacturers doing more training this year than in previously for contractors 716 00:39:29,860 --> 00:39:31,440 on new equipment? 717 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:32,440 Yeah. 718 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,200 I mean, I think the answer is yes, it has to be. 719 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,240 Mainly because of all these transitions taking place, the technology is changing and as these 720 00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:45,640 new products roll out, whether it's from JCI, Daikin, Fujitsu, whoever else, being able 721 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:50,440 to master that new technology and implement it in the field is ultimately going to make 722 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,960 you a lot of money. 723 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,680 That's a gap right now, but as we roll out some new programs, again, through us, through 724 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,720 our inductive systems academy and through others, through schools, et cetera, and the 725 00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:04,920 partnerships that we have, that's going to fix that gap and get us ready for essentially 726 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,600 January 1st, 2025 and everything officially. 727 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:08,600 It's over. 728 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:09,600 Yeah. 729 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:10,600 That's what I was looking for. 730 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:11,600 What are we doing to prepare? 731 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:12,600 Yeah. 732 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:18,000 So we've already started, we've had a couple of big road shows where we've gone out regionally 733 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,200 and have done big classes. 734 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,960 Like I said, there's many things. 735 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:28,240 So it's sales and application, it's pricing, and then it's the installation and commissioning. 736 00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:33,880 If you just kind of take those three buckets, we have a big transition to do as we're getting 737 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,680 the industry ready as we transition and move into it. 738 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:43,040 I think back, you took a look in the 1980s, there was a big push for heat pumps in the 739 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,680 1980s as well. 740 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:45,680 Guess what? 741 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:46,680 The technicians weren't ready. 742 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:47,680 Nope. 743 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,800 And what ended up happening was a lot of heat pumps were put in wrong. 744 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,840 And so then everybody said, guess what? 745 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:54,840 Heat pumps don't work. 746 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:59,800 I'm going back to the old safe space where I need to go. 747 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:04,520 And we can't as an industry afford to do that as we're trying to solve all of these different 748 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:05,520 challenges. 749 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,800 So we need to make sure that we're offering the training classes, but then also that we're 750 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,000 filling up these training classes. 751 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:17,560 And so that's the big challenge I have to every distributor, every territory sales manager 752 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:22,180 that's out there, making sure that they get their customers to attend as many of these 753 00:41:22,180 --> 00:41:27,240 training events as possible because that's how we really move the needle in our industry. 754 00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:28,240 Absolutely. 755 00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:32,920 And I think even beyond the classroom is making sure that you're in the field with the contractors 756 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,720 so that they know they're supported, that as we introduce new products, that they know 757 00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:42,560 that the manufacturer is there to support them and see through the transition. 758 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,280 The first steps to not be afraid of it. 759 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:45,280 That's it. 760 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:46,280 Right? 761 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:47,880 So at the end of the day, it's refrigeration. 762 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:53,360 So it's understand that maybe change and maybe some differences, maybe some things you have 763 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:54,360 to learn. 764 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,520 But at the end of the day, it's still air conditioning and the fear of it is the worst 765 00:41:58,520 --> 00:41:59,520 thing you can have. 766 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,280 So we need to make sure that they're supported. 767 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,280 I had a contractor one time I was working with him and he's like, oh, this isn't like 768 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:06,280 regular air conditioning. 769 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,000 I said, that's all it is, is air conditioning. 770 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:17,160 A 20 sear inverter unitary system commissions and starts up different than a 13 sear straight 771 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:18,160 cool. 772 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,520 I said, they're different, but doesn't mean that that more difficult. 773 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,760 Your fear is what keeps you from wanting to invest the time and effort to learn. 774 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,840 So we've got to make sure we're hand in hand with our contractors to get past that fear 775 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,520 aspect of it so they can move forward with it. 776 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:34,520 Excellent. 777 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:35,520 All right. 778 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,520 Well, gentlemen, that's a lot of great stuff, a lot of inverter technology, a lot of refrigerant 779 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:40,800 technology. 780 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,200 So I encourage all of you to join us every week. 781 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:48,520 We bring different trainers from the industry on our, did you know the ESPO HVAC show where 782 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,000 we talk about this firsthand because so many things are happening. 783 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,400 We have a presence from all of our manufacturers at the National HVAC, our education conference. 784 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,040 We have trained the trainer events by the manufacturers at the conference. 785 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,520 We look forward to growing together as an industry. 786 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:09,120 We all have our parts to do in this industry and it's so great to be able to sit down with 787 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,400 manufacturers at the AHR Expo. 788 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:17,680 I'm looking forward to stopping by everybody's booth and see some new technologies and any 789 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,000 last parting thoughts before we hop out of here? 790 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,840 Yeah, I mean, thank you, Clifton, again, for having us. 791 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,920 This topic is so important and it's so timely. 792 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:27,920 It is. 793 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,360 We have essentially one year runway to make the best of this time period and get ready 794 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:33,680 for the future. 795 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:38,720 And as manufacturers, I think we have a responsibility in both the training aspect and Derek, you 796 00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:41,800 mentioned this earlier, making sure we're reducing those regulatory barriers, getting 797 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:46,240 those building codes in place so that we're positioned for a transition where we're on 798 00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:49,320 the leading edge rather than trying to follow and stay behind. 799 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:50,320 Love it. 800 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:51,320 Yep. 801 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:52,760 The biggest thing I can say is embrace the change. 802 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,080 I mean, all of the early adopters, that's where you're going to find the most profitability. 803 00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,880 That's where you're going to find the biggest opportunities for your business to grow. 804 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,360 That's where you're going to attract the best talent as they see that you truly are that 805 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,040 innovator in your space. 806 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,320 So make sure that you're embracing this change. 807 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,080 You're not resisting it. 808 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,160 Lean into it as hard as you possibly can. 809 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:16,880 And like I said, appreciate you giving us this opportunity to come and be a part of 810 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:17,880 this today. 811 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:24,240 And to that point, let's move forward without fear and understand that we've got the knowledge 812 00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:27,880 and the ability and we can handle this. 813 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:28,880 Absolutely, we can. 814 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:29,880 All right. 815 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,600 Well, thank you all so much for joining us this year at the 2024 AHR Expo. 816 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:38,400 I encourage all of you to stop by each of our manufacturers. 817 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:39,400 Form a partnership. 818 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,520 Say, hey, I want to learn more about what you're doing. 819 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:42,520 How can we work together? 820 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,320 How can we move this industry forward together? 821 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,200 And let me catch you all again sometime soon on one of my shows. 822 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:50,200 Thank you so much. 823 00:44:50,200 --> 00:45:10,600 It's been a pleasure.