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Welcome back to Teaching the Unteachables where we dive into teaching and learning

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methodologies for professionals like you. Learn more about John Ellis and the

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Dynamic Care Consulting on Facebook or on the HVAC Learning Campus at

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hvaclearningcampus.com

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Alright everyone thank you for joining us once again this time we're hanging out

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with John Ellis from Dynamic Air Consulting. John how you doing today?

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Fantastic and thanks for having me. Absolutely. So one of the topics that we

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talked about I think is very important for people to understand is how to turn

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data into dollars. As we move forward as an industry we're starting to use

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analytics a lot more. You know data is becoming our friend and in the past

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we've always used data for business management but what about using data

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just as a technician, as a contractor, you know as a business owner we have

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resources for looking at data and utilizing that for our own personal

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growth. So let's dive a little deeper into that and tell us a little bit about

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your background, your experience in the industry John. Oh absolutely well you

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know I've been in this wonderful industry HVAC and building science now

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for 43 years. Oh my goodness I've seen some changes. Yes you have. Yeah so just

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to start off a little background I owned a contracting business in California and

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what that was is it didn't say it was a Sol Cal Air Dynamics I was in Southern

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California and it didn't say heating and air conditioning it said performance

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contracting. So early on I got into that mindset of being able to test, verify and

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make informed decisions based on that information. I was an air balance and

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commissioning agent commercial and a heavier commercial up to 50 tons. Sure.

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And so that that's collecting data. Yeah I also commissioned commercial kitchen

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hoods and then I got into doing hospitals and surgery centers and and it

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just kept growing from there. I was also a HRS rater and so that allowed me to do

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third-party testing on residential and so that's collecting data. Yeah and and

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so early on I was I was a data collector you know in one form or another. Yeah and

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and then I you know I also offered we kind of catered to high-end high design

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HVAC you know the normal everyday service and installation and so been a

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wonderful experience as that and in that in that time as a contractor I got to

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kind of hone in on a niche market and that was creating clean healthy

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environments for people who were severely respiratory compromised, immunal

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and the likes and so my clients came to me with a wide variety of acute

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conditions like cystic fibrosis, COPD, immune oncology, lung transplant

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recipients, Lyme's disease, valley fever. People don't realize that those are very

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Lyme's disease is very respiratory compromising at different stages and

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debilitating asthma is all the way down to you know garden variety seasonal

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allergies and so that that really helped me take my dive into the indoor air

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quality journey. Makes complete sense. Now when did you start that journey? I mean

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it sounds like it wasn't in the last few years of the last decade. No no no that I

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really got deep into indoor air quality and the building science aspect of what

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we do along with the mechanical about I'd say about 20 years ago. Yeah exactly

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and so you know for founder of what we now are starting to recognize as what

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residential HVAC should have always been is understanding air. I mean we're in the

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business of moving heat but we're also in the business of treating air and a

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lot of people forget about that when we start thinking about residential. Yeah and

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you know also in the in the realm of indoor air quality yeah we're

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conditioning and treating and cleaning air but we are absolutely changing

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environments in the living spaces. So fast forward I ended up selling my

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business in California and I moved and I kind of retired and I live in the

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mountains of New Mexico right now and then some wonderful opportunities were

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afforded me and it's just been such a blessing. So one of the things I get to

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do is I teach indoor air quality for Dyken and Manna Goodman under the HVAC

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learning campus and what a great organization and when they approached me

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and they said John we want to create a curriculum I'm absolutely your guy but I

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really don't want to stand in front of a classroom and sell products because

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that's what everybody else is doing. I said it really needs to be the nuts and

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bolts in science behind indoor air quality and so I use a blend of building

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science, building forensics and mechanical and it's been well received.

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I've taught it all over the United States and Canada and people are putting

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to work the information that they get from my classes so that's been

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wonderful. I am a business coach and field service trainer for a company

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called the New Flat Rate and the reason it's called New Flat Rate is because

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traditional flat rates been good, better, best. We are a full menu pricing system

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and we are not a pricing company but we are a software and process

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development company and so what that gives me the opportunity to do is go out

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into the field, work with companies, get into their books, look at where they're

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profitable, look at each technician at a macro level and say how are they

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performing, are they profitable and then I get to put on a uniform and get in the

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trucks and go around service calls. I absolutely love that and I get to go in homes all over the

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United States and I see the whole gamut on how things are installed and oh my

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goodness, yeah I see some doozies out there. You see everything from

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one to ten and anything in between. Yes sir, but in that myself and the

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founder Rodney Cope, we're able to create the very first and only in our

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industry right now a building science and indoor air quality menu pricing

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module and it is fantastic. It was a labor of love and to really spell that

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out and create menus for that has been wonderful. We've beta tested it, it's out

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there, people are using it with great success and so that's been a

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fantastic experience to be able to do that. Yeah I bet. One last thing, I am a

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a product ambassador for Dust Free. Oh yeah, absolutely. And in that we have a

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new product that's launching at HR next week. I'll see you there next week. Yeah

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and we are excited. It's a it's hospital grade air filtration for residential.

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Really? All our testing is complete. We're coming at a 0.15 static drop. We're

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getting two to five years on a filter change. We're getting 98% filtration.

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We've got our Merge 16 credentials. Just our data that we've gathered

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from the lab is fantastic but we've got some units installed in real world and

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the expectations were so I used a existing 5-ton system. We put our

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filtration system on that and we came out at a 0.13 static drop. 98%

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filtration started off at a 0.87 static and we brought it in when it was all

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finished at a 0.57. Now we're getting there. And now and that's on an existing

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system. We only worked on the return air side. We did nothing to the other side.

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And of course we did some cleaning to make sure we're gonna get the best

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results. So that that's been very exciting. So absolutely. So that's the

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elevator version. Yeah no absolutely that's what we're looking for is you

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know let's get into the nuts and bolts of why we do what we do and for you it's

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very much about having that data to be able to drive results and we talk about

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this all the time even with the operation and performance of a system. You cannot

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make a determination until you have data to do analysis for and then we make

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corrections to that data to make improvements on systems. So that's really

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what we're talking about. We're talking about being able to validate inputs so

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that we can control favorable outputs. Absolutely and just to kind of to make

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it relatable we don't or I hope we don't as HVAC professionals arbitrarily just

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go and put put refrigerant in a system. Right. We need a set of data points to

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tell us whether we need to or not. Maybe we need to take some refrigerant out of

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a system to make it you know perform to manufacture specifications. And so we

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don't arbitrarily start changing components out of a system because they

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look old. We actually have to take a set of data points measurements to determine

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what's the best course of action or what's what's the next step in a

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procedure. And so we can we can take that concept and expand it all the way out

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into the home into the building into what's in the air. And so that just to

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kind of to make it relatable we are we are and should be data driven. Yeah I

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agree. We're gonna see a lot of technology in this next few years and

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next decade that allows technicians and contractors to be able to validate a

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system and be able to forecast what it could look like. In the past we've built

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our models around all right let's put some good equipment in here and you

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should get these results. Well now we're starting to build enough data that we

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can look at a system and go you know what we can actually forecast the

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performance of the system and even some filtration and static pressures based on

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what we have built and learned off from data. So that all that input is really

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creating much more favorable outputs than we've had to work with in the past.

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Absolutely and I'm looking back on my my air balance days and doing commercial

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kitchens and different things I really had to put fan laws to work into play.

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And a lot of residential technicians don't understand fan laws because

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everybody everything's direct drive and things but but what was really

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interesting is one one you have to learn the math behind it. But once I did that I

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just put it into Excel so yeah you know to make it easier on myself and to

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streamline the process. But using fan laws you can put in some a certain set

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of data points and then hit go and it'll forecast what your results would be.

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What your airflow what your fan watt draw will be what your amperage what

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your RPMs will be and it's like that is all made possible by gathering data.

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Absolutely. So when when we look at home performance system performance and even

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indoor air quality we want to gather a certain set of data points and so I've

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kind of broke those into three categories. Okay. And when you're when

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you're in what I like to call the discovery stage or the investigative

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stage we look at those three categories and and the first one would be more

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geared towards indoor air quality would be air safety. What's in the air? What are

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the properties of the air? What pollutants are there? And then once we

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understand what pollutants and what's in the air we can understand where they're

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coming from and then instead of addressing the symptom we can now look

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for the source and go after the source. I call that source control. Sure. And that

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gives us a better understanding on what direction and that it kind of paves the

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way on what where we should go when we're trying to figure out what a

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solution or a scope of work would be. And then the second part of that

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component would be the building safety. What's the building doing? And that's

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where we bring in our building science discipline. And so we have a certain set

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of data points that we like to look at. You know we run a blower door and we

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look at ACH 50 and our infiltration and then we can do a zonal pressuring and

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moisture mapping and all those things that that those data points will tell us.

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And then the third would be the existing mechanical because the mechanical

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our mechanical systems have the biggest impact on the structure. And so I've

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been using NCI, National Comfort Institute's testing methodology. I've

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been with that organization for my goodness 19 years now. So I've been using

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their methodology for a long time and with the the invention of now Measure

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Quick and you know TEC and TrueFlow and and all those disciplines now it just

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makes collecting that data real easy for us. Now sure it's an investment but I

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mean you've got to have those tools. And I tell people all the time hey you know

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what having a particle scanner or a multi gas meter or a TrueFlow grid or an

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airflow hood or a blower door is no different than having a nice you know

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cordless screwdriver you know drill. It's part of it. Think about the time that we

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waste not using tools. If people say oh it's gonna cost me a thousand dollars

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for this and I go what is your time worth? Is it worth a hundred dollars an

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hour? And have you wasted ten hours trying to come up with numbers that you

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could have had in minutes? And they go yeah yeah I'm sure I have I said well

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then you already wasted the cost of a tool that you could have been using the

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entire time. Sure it takes me back to you know high school and you know you take

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algebra or different things. You could quickly pull up that information on a

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calculator but they always wanted you to show the math. Right. So because I've

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been doing this so long I do know how to take those measurements you know with

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analog and do the math and come up with it. But man just to have technology just

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give you that answer. But I do think it's important to understand how and why that

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information is coming. So I try to share that in some of my classes. Kind of a

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long way to get there. So it's kind of important but yeah technology is a

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wonderful thing. You know most engineers will tell you you learn how to do

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something and then you find a way to do it better or faster. You don't not get

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the information you just try to do it in a more efficient way and as we try to

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combat this shortage of technicians that we have in an industry I keep preaching

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how do we do this? We use tools to gather the data that we're looking for faster.

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Yes absolutely. So going back so we've just looked at three categories for

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data collection. Whether we're doing a whole home assessment or we're just

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doing an error assessment or just the existing mechanical. Yeah. Once we gather

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that it's like okay now what? Now we got a bunch of data points. Well what do we

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do with it? One yeah you need to be able to discern the data. Analyze the data and

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this is where a little experience will come in. What's it

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telling me? What is that data telling me? And so from there that will allow you to

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okay so I've got high particulates. I've got high carbon dioxide in my home. So

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that tells me or high humidity that tells me well maybe I should bring in

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some ventilation. Maybe I should add some dehumidification. Maybe I should make

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sure that my sensible latent ratios on my equipment is in place. You know is

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do I have high particulates because I've got high infiltration. Is my filtration

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up to par to help combat that? And I always like to say all the filtration in

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the world is a wash if my infiltration is way too high. And so the data will

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point us that direction. And once we get there and then also I think what's

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important too is comparing the data to what the client is actually experiencing

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in the home. Sure. Does little Johnny have asthma? Does mom have multiple

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chemical sensitivities? Are we looking to just have an overall you know healthy

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home? You know are there infants? Are there older grandparents in the home?

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Those are all important on helping us make an informed decision for the

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client using the data. Absolutely. Yeah so we've just created a process. Yeah you

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know so many times we'll get a call from a homeowner. I'm having this scenario.

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Well is that a data point or is that an opinion? And so without data points we

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don't have a complete reference. We need those data points to be able to validate

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the opinion. And so it really comes down to understanding exactly what that data

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is and then be able to communicate with a homeowner. I do hear you. And now we

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actually have data that we can validate or contradict or be able to negotiate so

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we can understand what the data is actually telling us. And so it always

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comes back to quality data to be able to make any type of a true evaluation of a

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situation. Sure and you know that's an interesting statement that you made

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that a client has an opinion. And yes it's an opinion at that point but you

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know what? Our bodies are the best testing machines that we have. And when

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a client is experiencing something and then all of a sudden it's like hey

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you're experiencing this and we found that. And now we've just made a

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connection. And we can find a solution. And we can find a solution. It's a

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wonderful when the process when you get in that point of the process and all the

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light bulbs start going off and we've one validated the opinion with data

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that's a fantastic thing. Absolutely. We have so many technicians that will say I

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would like to sell this product but what does it really do? And I go whoa you're

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selling a product and you don't even know what you were treating in the

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beginning? Let's go backwards and reevaluate. And so this is how you do it.

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You simply measure. You collect data and then you create a result based on your

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findings. There's a couple phrases I use. One if you don't test it's just a guess.

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I love that. And the other one I coined from the medical community is

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prescription without diagnosis is malpractice. And you hit a key

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point that's kind of a hot topic and that is people are selling products

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without understanding what they're even trying to address. And that's where that

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prescription we're prescribing products without a proper diagnosis. And that is

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malpractice. And that's something I try to drive home in my classes as well. And

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it's now there are some fantastic products out there but it's not

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cookie-cutter one-size-fits-all. So that's a topic for another day. I love it.

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John Ellis thank you so much for joining us today. Yeah you're right this is a

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prelude into some other potential topics but it really does come down to we cannot

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create dollars unless we're using the data in the process. Yes sir. Thank you so

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much for joining us. Thanks for having me have a great day.