Welcome back to Teaching the Unteachables where we dive into teaching and learning
methodologies for professionals like you. Learn more about John Ellis and the
Dynamic Care Consulting on Facebook or on the HVAC Learning Campus at
hvaclearningcampus.com
Alright everyone thank you for joining us once again this time we're hanging out
with John Ellis from Dynamic Air Consulting. John how you doing today?
Fantastic and thanks for having me. Absolutely. So one of the topics that we
talked about I think is very important for people to understand is how to turn
data into dollars. As we move forward as an industry we're starting to use
analytics a lot more. You know data is becoming our friend and in the past
we've always used data for business management but what about using data
just as a technician, as a contractor, you know as a business owner we have
resources for looking at data and utilizing that for our own personal
growth. So let's dive a little deeper into that and tell us a little bit about
your background, your experience in the industry John. Oh absolutely well you
know I've been in this wonderful industry HVAC and building science now
for 43 years. Oh my goodness I've seen some changes. Yes you have. Yeah so just
to start off a little background I owned a contracting business in California and
what that was is it didn't say it was a Sol Cal Air Dynamics I was in Southern
California and it didn't say heating and air conditioning it said performance
contracting. So early on I got into that mindset of being able to test, verify and
make informed decisions based on that information. I was an air balance and
commissioning agent commercial and a heavier commercial up to 50 tons. Sure.
And so that that's collecting data. Yeah I also commissioned commercial kitchen
hoods and then I got into doing hospitals and surgery centers and and it
just kept growing from there. I was also a HRS rater and so that allowed me to do
third-party testing on residential and so that's collecting data. Yeah and and
so early on I was I was a data collector you know in one form or another. Yeah and
and then I you know I also offered we kind of catered to high-end high design
HVAC you know the normal everyday service and installation and so been a
wonderful experience as that and in that in that time as a contractor I got to
kind of hone in on a niche market and that was creating clean healthy
environments for people who were severely respiratory compromised, immunal
and the likes and so my clients came to me with a wide variety of acute
conditions like cystic fibrosis, COPD, immune oncology, lung transplant
recipients, Lyme's disease, valley fever. People don't realize that those are very
Lyme's disease is very respiratory compromising at different stages and
debilitating asthma is all the way down to you know garden variety seasonal
allergies and so that that really helped me take my dive into the indoor air
quality journey. Makes complete sense. Now when did you start that journey? I mean
it sounds like it wasn't in the last few years of the last decade. No no no that I
really got deep into indoor air quality and the building science aspect of what
we do along with the mechanical about I'd say about 20 years ago. Yeah exactly
and so you know for founder of what we now are starting to recognize as what
residential HVAC should have always been is understanding air. I mean we're in the
business of moving heat but we're also in the business of treating air and a
lot of people forget about that when we start thinking about residential. Yeah and
you know also in the in the realm of indoor air quality yeah we're
conditioning and treating and cleaning air but we are absolutely changing
environments in the living spaces. So fast forward I ended up selling my
business in California and I moved and I kind of retired and I live in the
mountains of New Mexico right now and then some wonderful opportunities were
afforded me and it's just been such a blessing. So one of the things I get to
do is I teach indoor air quality for Dyken and Manna Goodman under the HVAC
learning campus and what a great organization and when they approached me
and they said John we want to create a curriculum I'm absolutely your guy but I
really don't want to stand in front of a classroom and sell products because
that's what everybody else is doing. I said it really needs to be the nuts and
bolts in science behind indoor air quality and so I use a blend of building
science, building forensics and mechanical and it's been well received.
I've taught it all over the United States and Canada and people are putting
to work the information that they get from my classes so that's been
wonderful. I am a business coach and field service trainer for a company
called the New Flat Rate and the reason it's called New Flat Rate is because
traditional flat rates been good, better, best. We are a full menu pricing system
and we are not a pricing company but we are a software and process
development company and so what that gives me the opportunity to do is go out
into the field, work with companies, get into their books, look at where they're
profitable, look at each technician at a macro level and say how are they
performing, are they profitable and then I get to put on a uniform and get in the
trucks and go around service calls. I absolutely love that and I get to go in homes all over the
United States and I see the whole gamut on how things are installed and oh my
goodness, yeah I see some doozies out there. You see everything from
one to ten and anything in between. Yes sir, but in that myself and the
founder Rodney Cope, we're able to create the very first and only in our
industry right now a building science and indoor air quality menu pricing
module and it is fantastic. It was a labor of love and to really spell that
out and create menus for that has been wonderful. We've beta tested it, it's out
there, people are using it with great success and so that's been a
fantastic experience to be able to do that. Yeah I bet. One last thing, I am a
a product ambassador for Dust Free. Oh yeah, absolutely. And in that we have a
new product that's launching at HR next week. I'll see you there next week. Yeah
and we are excited. It's a it's hospital grade air filtration for residential.
Really? All our testing is complete. We're coming at a 0.15 static drop. We're
getting two to five years on a filter change. We're getting 98% filtration.
We've got our Merge 16 credentials. Just our data that we've gathered
from the lab is fantastic but we've got some units installed in real world and
the expectations were so I used a existing 5-ton system. We put our
filtration system on that and we came out at a 0.13 static drop. 98%
filtration started off at a 0.87 static and we brought it in when it was all
finished at a 0.57. Now we're getting there. And now and that's on an existing
system. We only worked on the return air side. We did nothing to the other side.
And of course we did some cleaning to make sure we're gonna get the best
results. So that that's been very exciting. So absolutely. So that's the
elevator version. Yeah no absolutely that's what we're looking for is you
know let's get into the nuts and bolts of why we do what we do and for you it's
very much about having that data to be able to drive results and we talk about
this all the time even with the operation and performance of a system. You cannot
make a determination until you have data to do analysis for and then we make
corrections to that data to make improvements on systems. So that's really
what we're talking about. We're talking about being able to validate inputs so
that we can control favorable outputs. Absolutely and just to kind of to make
it relatable we don't or I hope we don't as HVAC professionals arbitrarily just
go and put put refrigerant in a system. Right. We need a set of data points to
tell us whether we need to or not. Maybe we need to take some refrigerant out of
a system to make it you know perform to manufacture specifications. And so we
don't arbitrarily start changing components out of a system because they
look old. We actually have to take a set of data points measurements to determine
what's the best course of action or what's what's the next step in a
procedure. And so we can we can take that concept and expand it all the way out
into the home into the building into what's in the air. And so that just to
kind of to make it relatable we are we are and should be data driven. Yeah I
agree. We're gonna see a lot of technology in this next few years and
next decade that allows technicians and contractors to be able to validate a
system and be able to forecast what it could look like. In the past we've built
our models around all right let's put some good equipment in here and you
should get these results. Well now we're starting to build enough data that we
can look at a system and go you know what we can actually forecast the
performance of the system and even some filtration and static pressures based on
what we have built and learned off from data. So that all that input is really
creating much more favorable outputs than we've had to work with in the past.
Absolutely and I'm looking back on my my air balance days and doing commercial
kitchens and different things I really had to put fan laws to work into play.
And a lot of residential technicians don't understand fan laws because
everybody everything's direct drive and things but but what was really
interesting is one one you have to learn the math behind it. But once I did that I
just put it into Excel so yeah you know to make it easier on myself and to
streamline the process. But using fan laws you can put in some a certain set
of data points and then hit go and it'll forecast what your results would be.
What your airflow what your fan watt draw will be what your amperage what
your RPMs will be and it's like that is all made possible by gathering data.
Absolutely. So when when we look at home performance system performance and even
indoor air quality we want to gather a certain set of data points and so I've
kind of broke those into three categories. Okay. And when you're when
you're in what I like to call the discovery stage or the investigative
stage we look at those three categories and and the first one would be more
geared towards indoor air quality would be air safety. What's in the air? What are
the properties of the air? What pollutants are there? And then once we
understand what pollutants and what's in the air we can understand where they're
coming from and then instead of addressing the symptom we can now look
for the source and go after the source. I call that source control. Sure. And that
gives us a better understanding on what direction and that it kind of paves the
way on what where we should go when we're trying to figure out what a
solution or a scope of work would be. And then the second part of that
component would be the building safety. What's the building doing? And that's
where we bring in our building science discipline. And so we have a certain set
of data points that we like to look at. You know we run a blower door and we
look at ACH 50 and our infiltration and then we can do a zonal pressuring and
moisture mapping and all those things that that those data points will tell us.
And then the third would be the existing mechanical because the mechanical
our mechanical systems have the biggest impact on the structure. And so I've
been using NCI, National Comfort Institute's testing methodology. I've
been with that organization for my goodness 19 years now. So I've been using
their methodology for a long time and with the the invention of now Measure
Quick and you know TEC and TrueFlow and and all those disciplines now it just
makes collecting that data real easy for us. Now sure it's an investment but I
mean you've got to have those tools. And I tell people all the time hey you know
what having a particle scanner or a multi gas meter or a TrueFlow grid or an
airflow hood or a blower door is no different than having a nice you know
cordless screwdriver you know drill. It's part of it. Think about the time that we
waste not using tools. If people say oh it's gonna cost me a thousand dollars
for this and I go what is your time worth? Is it worth a hundred dollars an
hour? And have you wasted ten hours trying to come up with numbers that you
could have had in minutes? And they go yeah yeah I'm sure I have I said well
then you already wasted the cost of a tool that you could have been using the
entire time. Sure it takes me back to you know high school and you know you take
algebra or different things. You could quickly pull up that information on a
calculator but they always wanted you to show the math. Right. So because I've
been doing this so long I do know how to take those measurements you know with
analog and do the math and come up with it. But man just to have technology just
give you that answer. But I do think it's important to understand how and why that
information is coming. So I try to share that in some of my classes. Kind of a
long way to get there. So it's kind of important but yeah technology is a
wonderful thing. You know most engineers will tell you you learn how to do
something and then you find a way to do it better or faster. You don't not get
the information you just try to do it in a more efficient way and as we try to
combat this shortage of technicians that we have in an industry I keep preaching
how do we do this? We use tools to gather the data that we're looking for faster.
Yes absolutely. So going back so we've just looked at three categories for
data collection. Whether we're doing a whole home assessment or we're just
doing an error assessment or just the existing mechanical. Yeah. Once we gather
that it's like okay now what? Now we got a bunch of data points. Well what do we
do with it? One yeah you need to be able to discern the data. Analyze the data and
this is where a little experience will come in. What's it
telling me? What is that data telling me? And so from there that will allow you to
okay so I've got high particulates. I've got high carbon dioxide in my home. So
that tells me or high humidity that tells me well maybe I should bring in
some ventilation. Maybe I should add some dehumidification. Maybe I should make
sure that my sensible latent ratios on my equipment is in place. You know is
do I have high particulates because I've got high infiltration. Is my filtration
up to par to help combat that? And I always like to say all the filtration in
the world is a wash if my infiltration is way too high. And so the data will
point us that direction. And once we get there and then also I think what's
important too is comparing the data to what the client is actually experiencing
in the home. Sure. Does little Johnny have asthma? Does mom have multiple
chemical sensitivities? Are we looking to just have an overall you know healthy
home? You know are there infants? Are there older grandparents in the home?
Those are all important on helping us make an informed decision for the
client using the data. Absolutely. Yeah so we've just created a process. Yeah you
know so many times we'll get a call from a homeowner. I'm having this scenario.
Well is that a data point or is that an opinion? And so without data points we
don't have a complete reference. We need those data points to be able to validate
the opinion. And so it really comes down to understanding exactly what that data
is and then be able to communicate with a homeowner. I do hear you. And now we
actually have data that we can validate or contradict or be able to negotiate so
we can understand what the data is actually telling us. And so it always
comes back to quality data to be able to make any type of a true evaluation of a
situation. Sure and you know that's an interesting statement that you made
that a client has an opinion. And yes it's an opinion at that point but you
know what? Our bodies are the best testing machines that we have. And when
a client is experiencing something and then all of a sudden it's like hey
you're experiencing this and we found that. And now we've just made a
connection. And we can find a solution. And we can find a solution. It's a
wonderful when the process when you get in that point of the process and all the
light bulbs start going off and we've one validated the opinion with data
that's a fantastic thing. Absolutely. We have so many technicians that will say I
would like to sell this product but what does it really do? And I go whoa you're
selling a product and you don't even know what you were treating in the
beginning? Let's go backwards and reevaluate. And so this is how you do it.
You simply measure. You collect data and then you create a result based on your
findings. There's a couple phrases I use. One if you don't test it's just a guess.
I love that. And the other one I coined from the medical community is
prescription without diagnosis is malpractice. And you hit a key
point that's kind of a hot topic and that is people are selling products
without understanding what they're even trying to address. And that's where that
prescription we're prescribing products without a proper diagnosis. And that is
malpractice. And that's something I try to drive home in my classes as well. And
it's now there are some fantastic products out there but it's not
cookie-cutter one-size-fits-all. So that's a topic for another day. I love it.
John Ellis thank you so much for joining us today. Yeah you're right this is a
prelude into some other potential topics but it really does come down to we cannot
create dollars unless we're using the data in the process. Yes sir. Thank you so
much for joining us. Thanks for having me have a great day.