1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,200
Tales from the trenches, stories forged in the fires of experience.

2
00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:15,560
This episode brought to you by Yellowknife Safety, keeping workers safe for over 25 years.

3
00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:24,640
Learn more at yellowknifesafety.com.

4
00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,140
Alright everyone, thank you once again for joining us on Did You Know?

5
00:00:28,140 --> 00:00:32,640
This time we're hanging out with Terry Dussault of Yellowknife Consulting Services.

6
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:33,640
Terry, how are you today?

7
00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,200
Doing well, thank you.

8
00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:44,680
So we're here to talk about changes in regulations, changes in EPA expectations, and to help people

9
00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:50,160
understand that a lot of what we do in the industry actually falls under things like

10
00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:52,160
the Clean Air Act.

11
00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:57,600
So we always talk about here in the air conditioning and refrigeration industry, the Section 608

12
00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:58,600
certification.

13
00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,880
Well, what is Section 608?

14
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,000
Well, it's actually a piece of the Clean Air Act, right?

15
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,600
And we've had a lot of changes to the Clean Air Act over time.

16
00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:10,200
We've had a variety of amendments.

17
00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,120
We've had a lot of things that we've had to focus in on what's changing in the industry

18
00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,560
based on our 608 certification.

19
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,280
But it really comes down to the environment.

20
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:27,760
All right, we have Section 608 that covers our residential commercial air conditioning

21
00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:28,760
refrigeration.

22
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,080
We have Section 609 that covers automotive.

23
00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:37,200
But there are many industries that have sections of the Clean Air Act that we still focus on.

24
00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,040
And we'll come back to Section 608 here in a little bit.

25
00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:45,680
But Terry's got a great analogy of how an industry has to look at the environment and

26
00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,840
to look at the Clean Air Act.

27
00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:56,640
So one really cool one comes from Section 517, where we talk about the use of MTBE.

28
00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,040
And there's been a lot of regulations that change with that.

29
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:00,760
And it's a fascinating topic, Terry.

30
00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,640
So let's talk a little bit about your experiences with the Clean Air Act and evolution of the

31
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,000
Clean Air Act.

32
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,000
Yeah.

33
00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:15,720
So for me, it kind of goes way back to when I was a child, because I remember living here

34
00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,720
in Southern California, waking up going outside to play.

35
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:31,120
And you know, you play for a couple hours and the smog was so impactful that after just

36
00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,720
like two hours of playing, it was hard to breathe.

37
00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:35,720
That's hard.

38
00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:42,560
And so there was always this little brown layer of smog in Southern California.

39
00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:50,920
And as California grew and there was more vehicles on the road, the oversight agencies

40
00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:56,400
started to kind of like expand and they realized we have to do more.

41
00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:57,400
Right.

42
00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:58,400
That's a big change.

43
00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,320
Yeah, there had to be some kind of changes.

44
00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:08,920
And so with vehicles, they obviously tried to reduce emissions.

45
00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:16,160
And I remember way back when they were trying to get the hydrocarbon countdown on, you know,

46
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:21,360
so they could just, you know, improve the efficiency of the gasoline engine.

47
00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:22,360
Right.

48
00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:29,760
There was other ways that they were trying to improve air quality in this basin here,

49
00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:34,320
not just SoCal, but LA and other areas.

50
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:40,520
And so one of the things that they came up with, which was kind of genius in a way, but

51
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,160
it was probably not fully researched.

52
00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:50,260
And so, you know, here they decide we need to make a change in a change that's going

53
00:03:50,260 --> 00:03:53,840
to make a significant improvement with the air quality.

54
00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:54,840
Okay.

55
00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,760
But they didn't, they didn't really think it all the way through.

56
00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,580
Not enough research, not enough research.

57
00:04:00,580 --> 00:04:04,680
And they just didn't have enough knowledge, I think, at the time.

58
00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:05,680
Okay.

59
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:13,600
So one of the things they came up with was, well, everybody used to use these octane boosts

60
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:14,760
in the car, right?

61
00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,040
So they add that to their fuel.

62
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:26,680
And the main ingredient in that was a product called methyl tertiary butyl alcohol, or butyl

63
00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:27,680
ether.

64
00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,240
MTBE is the acronym.

65
00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:32,400
Okay.

66
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,600
And so what they did is they started testing it.

67
00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:43,920
And they realized that they could possibly start adding this into the fuel supply.

68
00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:51,600
And they figured out that for every 10 gallons of fuel, if you add one gallon of MTBE, it

69
00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,840
would be optimum for making fuel burn cleaner.

70
00:04:55,840 --> 00:04:58,720
And the testing was a huge success.

71
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,280
And so they ended up implementing it.

72
00:05:01,280 --> 00:05:07,560
And of course, you know, they always have deadlines by when you have to have these formulations,

73
00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,400
you know, and when they have to be implemented.

74
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:20,120
And Chevron might have their version of what they call it, like they they're using MTBE,

75
00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,320
but they might call it, you know, give their own proprietary label.

76
00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:29,640
Or Tet clean, or you know, they have, they all have their different name for it.

77
00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,760
So they start using it.

78
00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:39,040
And one of the problems that they had that they didn't really think about is a lot of

79
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,280
the fuel ends up in underground fuel storage tanks.

80
00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:44,280
Sure.

81
00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:49,880
And underground fuel storage tanks in in the past were made of metal.

82
00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:50,940
Yeah, all steel.

83
00:05:50,940 --> 00:05:54,760
So now they're, they're double wall fiberglass.

84
00:05:54,760 --> 00:06:00,680
Okay, so the metal part of it was the problem, you think metal strong, but when you put it

85
00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:07,640
in the ground, and you could have groundwater at seven feet or 12 feet, sure, it starts

86
00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:09,640
to corrode the bottom of the tank.

87
00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:16,480
And then a lot of their retail operators were starting to realize that their fuel supply

88
00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,480
was leeching.

89
00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,600
They were losing fuel, right?

90
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,480
And it's going into the soil.

91
00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:31,720
And it might just be a little bit, but it ends up going in to the sandy soil, and it

92
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,720
goes deeper and deeper.

93
00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:40,820
And the problem with the MTBE additive is that it's highly toxic.

94
00:06:40,820 --> 00:06:43,680
And it's lighter than water.

95
00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,620
So it's very mobile in soil and groundwater.

96
00:06:47,620 --> 00:06:50,720
It finds its way into the shallow aquifers.

97
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:56,760
And the problem with it is if it ever ends up getting into the deep aquifers, that's

98
00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,560
where a lot of the counties get the water supplies.

99
00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:05,320
Yeah, and they, and they sell that water to the residents.

100
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:06,320
Right.

101
00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:13,480
And so it's, it's valuable, but they realized that all of a sudden, when they were sampling

102
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:21,520
or checking the water, they were, they were getting high levels of MTBE in it.

103
00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:27,360
So it became super concerning, like, how did this chemical get into the groundwater?

104
00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,600
And you know, how toxic is it?

105
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:36,240
And anyway, they started to realize when they studied it, that it only takes one small cup

106
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:45,000
full to contaminate a million gallons of water, drinking water.

107
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,480
So it's highly toxic.

108
00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:48,560
It causes cancer.

109
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:56,400
And the county started to pay attention to this because who wants to have free water

110
00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,880
that you can sell and make a ton of money on?

111
00:07:58,880 --> 00:07:59,880
Right.

112
00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:02,560
And now all of a sudden, you don't have that water.

113
00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,560
You have to get it somewhere else.

114
00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,640
And that's where they have to purchase it.

115
00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:07,640
Yeah.

116
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,160
And so it became a big problem and I could go on and on about that.

117
00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:19,400
But you know, I want to just emphasize that, you know, there was a, there was a huge positive

118
00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,000
in the, in the clean air.

119
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:28,480
The downside was the damage to our drinking water supplies.

120
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,600
And it wasn't just in California.

121
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,480
This went all across the U S.

122
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:33,480
Sure.

123
00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:41,480
So it created, it created a big problem, but you know, so the idea here is, you know, when

124
00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:48,800
these regulations come about, sometimes they're not always, you know, you can't think through

125
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,240
every scenario.

126
00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:56,320
And then, you know, sometimes you have these kinds of things come up and it was kind of

127
00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:01,560
like a crisis, you know, and then there was an, another regulation that came out that

128
00:09:01,560 --> 00:09:04,560
said we got to fix this problem.

129
00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:12,080
And all the people that were, had franchises to sell, you know, fuel from, from the oil

130
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,000
companies at their retail filling stations, they were given deadlines.

131
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:20,360
I think it was the year 2000 was the deadline.

132
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:29,100
I could be up, I could be wrong, but around 2000, the law said your underground fuel storage

133
00:09:29,100 --> 00:09:34,320
tanks have to be removed and replaced with double wall fiberglass.

134
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:35,320
Yeah.

135
00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,560
I remember that for good, for good reason.

136
00:09:37,560 --> 00:09:44,440
So if you ever, you know, think back to that time, you know, he probably drove by gas station,

137
00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,080
a lot of gas stations getting the parking lots to be straight.

138
00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:49,080
Yeah.

139
00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:54,320
So, uh, yeah, it's, it's interesting because, you know, a lot of the different industries

140
00:09:54,320 --> 00:10:02,120
have these, these, uh, mandates or updated, uh, regulations and things like that.

141
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:08,560
And you know, we're at the front end of it and like for HVAC, you know, uh, what does

142
00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:09,560
it mean?

143
00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:10,560
Right?

144
00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:11,560
Yeah.

145
00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:12,560
That's the main thing.

146
00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:14,840
That's the question we get is, you know, why are we making these changes?

147
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,880
Did someone's patent run out on a refrigerator?

148
00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:22,240
Do we have to make changes because it's a, it's a monopoly of the manufacturers and no,

149
00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,640
none of that actually, because it all comes back to this clean air act, right?

150
00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,800
We're trying to better our environment.

151
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,800
So like with refrigerants, when we first started studying our refrigerants, we recognize that

152
00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:38,880
when we introduced the synthetic chlorine into refrigerants that it depleted the ozone.

153
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:39,920
Right?

154
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:41,960
So we had to come up with solutions.

155
00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:42,960
So we did.

156
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:48,720
So we removed chlorine from the refrigerants, which left us with our HFCs.

157
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:53,440
And then later research found that, wow, we really have some problems with flooring in

158
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:58,520
the refrigerants contributing to greenhouse gases and global warming.

159
00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:04,280
So now we're going to have to reduce the consumption of HFC refrigerants and go to alternatives

160
00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,040
like HCs and HFOs.

161
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:13,200
And so we've made all these transitions based on acts like the clean air act.

162
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,800
And a lot of people don't recognize that there were many pieces to the clean air act.

163
00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:23,720
We were just section 608 in the HFAC and refrigeration industry.

164
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:28,720
So many different industries are governed by this clean air act that was established

165
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:34,040
to help reduce emissions, to help reduce greenhouse gases and global warming.

166
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:40,080
We don't always think about the other industries like the automotive and a lot of the smog

167
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,000
because here in the Midwest, we don't even really know much about smog except for what

168
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,520
people tell us and what we've seen on older videos.

169
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:52,320
So it's very interesting to see that we have made changes to the emissions off from vehicles

170
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,320
that weren't always the best choices long term.

171
00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,120
Yeah, for sure.

172
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:05,120
It's interesting and kind of going back to what I said about the smog and being a kid

173
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,520
and going out trying to play.

174
00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:13,320
And after a couple of hours, it was so hard to take a deep breath.

175
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:18,000
And there wasn't that many people in Southern California back then.

176
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:26,560
And so just to know that the smog factor, it was so high even back then.

177
00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:32,600
And now we have almost 50 million people in California, maybe a little more.

178
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,600
And the freeways are jam packed.

179
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:41,040
But if I go outside and do some kind of rigorous activity, I can breathe.

180
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:42,220
So it did work.

181
00:12:42,220 --> 00:12:43,560
It's effective.

182
00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:51,480
And a lot of times when these changes are occurring, there's some kind of other fallout

183
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,320
that may occur.

184
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,200
But it's all for the greater good.

185
00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:02,440
And as you know, my job is health and safety.

186
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:07,280
So I always try and say, look, it's OK.

187
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,260
Shoot for flawless execution.

188
00:13:10,260 --> 00:13:15,380
Whether you agree with global warming or you don't agree and all these different changes

189
00:13:15,380 --> 00:13:24,600
that they're making with refrigerants or like I think it was back in 2000 in California,

190
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:31,680
they had this thing where they changed the VOC standards, what was allowable in California.

191
00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:37,520
And a lot of contractors weren't allowed to use certain coatings and paints anymore.

192
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:45,760
The ones that were really good, that had high VOCs, they weren't allowed to use them.

193
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:52,600
And it was like overnight, they had to look for alternative products.

194
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,400
And so it creates a huge challenge.

195
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,460
And you kind of like hate it when you're going through it.

196
00:13:59,460 --> 00:14:03,280
But it's for the greater good of everybody.

197
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:11,240
And it's maybe not something we may not even see the full effect of it in our lifetime.

198
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:19,260
But these are the subtle changes that we need to make to make major improvements overall.

199
00:14:19,260 --> 00:14:22,200
So I think it's important.

200
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:28,360
And so like I said, whether you agree with the global warming thing or you don't, any

201
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:38,720
way you can improve your industry, it's important, I think, to just keep that in mind.

202
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,620
It makes it better for everybody.

203
00:14:41,620 --> 00:14:42,840
And that's what we encounter a lot.

204
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:48,360
We do hear a lot of resistance for changes in refrigerants, for changes in chemicals

205
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:49,760
and products that we use.

206
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:54,120
But it really does come down to the better good of the environment and for the future

207
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,600
generations that will be coming along after us.

208
00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:02,680
Now, there are a lot of things that we have created to make life easier or more comfortable,

209
00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,040
but may not have been the correct long term solutions.

210
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,400
And we're going to see a lot of that going forward.

211
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:14,420
This is just one step in our transformation of an HVAC and refrigeration industry.

212
00:15:14,420 --> 00:15:19,080
We are going to see all of our HFC refrigerants going away in this next decade.

213
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:20,080
Well, it's 2036.

214
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:25,660
We'll have a by 2036, we'll have an 85% reduction of all HFC refrigerants, which means we'll

215
00:15:25,660 --> 00:15:31,440
have to use things like HFOs, hydrofluorolyphans, hydrocarbons, HCs, but we'll also be looking

216
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:39,640
at different refrigerants like our natural fridges of CO2, H2O, ammonia.

217
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,840
There are a lot of refrigerants out there that we can use.

218
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:50,600
They may just not be as convenient as our CFC and HCFC and HFC predecessors.

219
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,040
So change is not easy, but we have to embrace it.

220
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,080
We have to look at the alternatives.

221
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,760
We have to understand why we are changing products.

222
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:04,320
A lot of people don't know that the EPA is currently looking at polyvinyl chlorides and

223
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,000
the phase out of polyvinyl chlorides.

224
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,320
And we go, wait a minute, what is that?

225
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:08,680
And we go, well, that's PVC.

226
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:14,520
And we go, whoa, what are we going to do if we phase down or phase out PVC?

227
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:19,680
Well, we will find better solutions for the environment and for the generations that come

228
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:20,680
after us.

229
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:27,640
And what it comes down to is trying to provide a clean environment for our future inhabitants.

230
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,200
Yeah, that's a good point.

231
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:37,600
One of the other things I'll share is that I spent a lot of my career cleaning up contaminated

232
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,520
waste sites, so doing environmental work.

233
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:51,200
And I am at the forefront of these former sites where either manufacturing occurred

234
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:57,800
or sites where they dumped chemicals from the oil drilling industry.

235
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,520
And there's different types of sludge.

236
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:05,680
And there's a lot of byproducts to the different things.

237
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,520
I call it like those are sins of the past.

238
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:10,520
Okay.

239
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:19,880
And when this country was growing and developing, they did a lot of different types of processes,

240
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,840
plating for aerospace.

241
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:30,000
A lot of the plating products and stuff are super toxic like cadmium, chromium.

242
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:36,120
And I've been at projects where we had to clean that stuff out of the soil.

243
00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:46,360
And in some cases, the sites were former aerospace places like let's say Lockheed or some of

244
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:47,360
these old places.

245
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:50,600
And they had a lot of buildings on these sites.

246
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,720
The sites were big.

247
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:59,520
And a lot of the processes that they used were, back then, they weren't doing anything

248
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,280
illegal.

249
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,480
But let's just say their processes weren't sound.

250
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:06,480
Okay.

251
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:11,720
And then they end up leaking a lot of these chemicals into the soil.

252
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,760
It gets into the groundwater.

253
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,960
And now you have a huge problem.

254
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:22,040
Now fast forward to, let's say, today, we send a construction crew out to a job site.

255
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:26,160
They start using an excavator to dig soil.

256
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:31,400
And they call me and say, Terry, we just dug up some soil.

257
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,840
And now the soil's turning green.

258
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,840
And that's one of the things that happens a lot.

259
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,760
If you can get into Chrome 6, they'd start digging it.

260
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,600
And the air hits the chemical that's been buried for 30 years.

261
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,640
And it actually starts to change color.

262
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,280
And this is like a multimillion dollar project for IKEA.

263
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,560
They're going to build the world's biggest IKEA out here in California.

264
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:03,840
And so they've got hundreds of workers out there, different trades, and people are driving

265
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,720
through it, cross contaminating one part of the site with the other.

266
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,800
And they have no idea how toxic it is.

267
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:16,220
So we have to go to the, you know, like the main superintendent, we got to shut this whole

268
00:19:16,220 --> 00:19:19,840
job down because people are being exposed.

269
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:24,600
And just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there.

270
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:31,360
And, you know, it could people, some people were complaining of respiratory problems and

271
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:32,360
things like that.

272
00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:38,480
And some of these contaminants in the industrial hygiene world, we'll say, when you have people

273
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:44,720
working on projects and things like that, they measure some of these contaminants in

274
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,200
parts per billion.

275
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:47,200
Wow.

276
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:48,200
In air.

277
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,200
Right.

278
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:57,760
So it doesn't have to be like a lot like a high number because it's so toxic and potent,

279
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:03,320
you know, so these are all the things like from an environmental standpoint that a lot

280
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,000
of people may not be aware of.

281
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:13,580
But you know, when you're making changes in these industries, it's important to remember,

282
00:20:13,580 --> 00:20:21,800
you know, that the greater good of what you're doing and, you know, complying is important.

283
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,140
And just understanding like what it takes to get there.

284
00:20:25,140 --> 00:20:30,580
The regulatory agencies are here to help us not really hinder us.

285
00:20:30,580 --> 00:20:34,480
But sometimes we look at it and, ah, man, what do we got to do now?

286
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:39,000
You know, what are they asking us to do?

287
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:44,640
But, you know, they're like, you know, you got to have that.

288
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,440
Look at look at countries like China.

289
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:55,000
A friend of mine owns a winter sport, you know, type company where they make winter

290
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,520
clothes and whatnot.

291
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:57,520
Sure.

292
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,440
About 10 years ago, he tells me, man, the craziest thing happened.

293
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:08,640
I went to China and I had an interpreter and I went to one of the factories where they

294
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,000
make the clothes, you know, my winter clothes.

295
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:16,720
And they were they had some workers and they were they were standing in this giant pond

296
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,820
and they have these large sticks.

297
00:21:18,820 --> 00:21:22,840
They look like paddles or oars like for a little boat.

298
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:23,840
Right.

299
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,840
And he says there's fumes.

300
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:35,160
There's literal fumes like coming off this product that they're using to dye a lot of

301
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:36,600
the clothing.

302
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:42,240
And they have like two workers in there and they're stirring all this and they're standing

303
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:48,480
in it up to their knees with their with their pants rolled up.

304
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:54,160
And he asks the interpreter he was concerned about their safety because they're basically

305
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,560
breathing some kind of toxic fumes.

306
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:57,560
Sure.

307
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:04,560
And he says to his interpreter to ask the the other guy, what about the workers?

308
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:11,600
Like he didn't like seeing them in that position, you know, in there working like that.

309
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:17,920
And the guy's response was, oh, we have more workers.

310
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:18,920
Wow.

311
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:25,660
And that's so it's like there's little to no concern for human safety.

312
00:22:25,660 --> 00:22:31,200
There's little to no concern for the environment.

313
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:39,400
And the thing that people need to understand also is when we go to a place like Target

314
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:45,240
or we go do our products and stuff off of the shelves, you don't really know even though

315
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,720
it's it looks packaged nice and everything.

316
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,640
You don't know like the backstory on it.

317
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,360
Where did it come from?

318
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:58,840
And what did it take to get that product from China to the US?

319
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:05,720
But you know, the environmental standards don't exist over there like they do here.

320
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:06,720
Exactly.

321
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,120
So, you know, it is important.

322
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:10,120
There's there's a bigger picture.

323
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:11,120
Absolutely.

324
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:16,680
And so we will see we'll continue to see changes to our industry based on things like the Clean

325
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:22,400
Air Act and amendments that we have to the Clean Air Act and even international treaties.

326
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:27,340
So as we continue in this HFC phase down, it's important to know that we are doing this

327
00:23:27,340 --> 00:23:28,920
for the right reasons.

328
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:34,960
And yes, it can be uncomfortable at times, but inevitably it's for the good of our own

329
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:35,960
society.

330
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,800
All right, Terry, thank you so much for joining us.

331
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,240
And we appreciate you being here.

332
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:42,240
We'll talk to you soon.

333
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:43,240
Yeah, thank you so much.

334
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:57,920
I appreciate it.