1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,900 Welcome back to Teaching the Unteachables where we dive into teaching and learning 2 00:00:05,900 --> 00:00:12,500 methodologies for professionals like you. This episode brought to you by New Calgon 3 00:00:12,500 --> 00:00:15,960 providing quality chemicals and specialty products for the air 4 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:23,800 conditioning, refrigeration, and heating markets. Learn more at NewCalgon.com 5 00:00:24,500 --> 00:00:28,240 So we're hanging out with our good friends over at New Calgon, Dave Ferrone 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:33,460 and Doug Gildhaus. How are you guys doing? Good. Hey, Clefton. Well, we really appreciate you 7 00:00:33,460 --> 00:00:37,300 joining us. You know, there are a lot of things for us to talk about in the 8 00:00:37,300 --> 00:00:41,600 industry. A lot of things that are evolving and a lot of companies looking 9 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:46,420 at how can we contribute even more than we already have. And New Calgon is a 10 00:00:46,420 --> 00:00:50,200 prime example, right? If we think about New Calgon, what are most people familiar 11 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:55,900 with with New Calgon? Chemicals, right? A lot of great chemicals. It wasn't a 12 00:00:55,900 --> 00:01:00,160 tale just a few months ago and I'm going through looking at different assets for 13 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,080 the industry and different ways to help people be prepared for new refrigerants 14 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,440 and new technologies. And I found the EcoPure line from New Calgon in Atlanta. 15 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:15,100 Wait, what? R290 and R600 with our friends at New Calgon. I need to know 16 00:01:15,100 --> 00:01:20,560 more about this. So I reached out to Dave and here we are today. So, Dave, tell us 17 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:26,040 a little bit about how New Calgon got into the flammable refrigerant sector. 18 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,240 Well, yeah, thanks, Clefton. This is a little bit outside of our normal 19 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,040 wheelhouse. You know, we have a complete line of chemicals, but this is outside 20 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,160 of what we normally do. And, you know, we had some wholesalers and customers who 21 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,520 are, you know, wholesalers who are our primary customer here a couple of years 22 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,960 ago, sitting, meeting with our executives, and one of them brought up the challenges 23 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:52,280 they were having with sourcing R290. So that led us and our new product 24 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:57,720 development team, led by Doug, to go ahead and start researching and finding out, 25 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,320 you know, how to best support the industry. So work through our vendor 26 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:06,000 channels, our vendor partners to develop the EcoPure line. We've got the two 27 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,640 package gases, which we'll talk about here in a little bit, but also the two 28 00:02:09,640 --> 00:02:13,920 different tools, which are great options for technicians to use, you know, whether 29 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:18,920 they're, you know, experienced or they're a seasoned veteran or, you know, not 30 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:22,920 very seasoned veteran. You know, we've got a great option for each tech. 31 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:27,040 If you're not currently working on systems that have highly flammable 32 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,640 refrigerants, I would be prepared for that, because even the residential guys 33 00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:35,320 go, hey, really in residential? And I go, well, there are a lot of things you may 34 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:40,120 not be aware of. Like, if you follow the SNAP policy, the EPA significant new 35 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:46,160 alternatives program, we have the approval for using things like R290, 36 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,960 even in air conditioning systems. So residential and light commercial heat 37 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,960 pumps approved in 2015 for use in self-contained room air conditioning 38 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,880 systems with detailed conditions. So we don't have them. I haven't seen any 39 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,880 myself yet here in the United States. We've seen them abroad, but they were 40 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:07,880 actually approved in 2019. Now commercial refrigeration, they're everywhere. We had 41 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,800 Lear telling us that they're converting all their ice chest over to 290. Manitowoc 42 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,320 moving their ice machines into R290. Residential, we've seen R290 and 600 for 43 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:21,920 a decade, if we didn't already know that. So we are moving into some very new 44 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:26,480 refrigerants. So, all right, I'm pretty excited to learn more about this and the 45 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:31,280 resources. So that's enough of me yacking. Let's have some time with you guys. 46 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,720 So, you know, I think many people are familiar with us and New Calgon and what we do, but, you 47 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,800 know, we like to view ourselves as the value-added company. We've got factory 48 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:43,840 direct sales force. We've got, we provide wholesaler training, we do road shows 49 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,680 every year. We have trainings at our St. Louis facility here, three 50 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,880 typically per year. We've got a great online resource with New Calgon 51 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,000 University. And, you know, we feel like we have the most complete specialty 52 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,160 chemical product line. So, yeah, that New Calgon University, great 53 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:05,080 source of getting continuing education credits, really great tool for people to 54 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,040 learn all about the different products we offer. And like I said, this little bit 55 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,520 outside of our wheelhouse and what we normally do, but we are excited about it. 56 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,440 We think it's a great way for us to support the industry as it moves into 57 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:21,120 something that is new to many people. There's a lot of scared people out there going, 58 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,560 boy, this is really scary. This is really challenging. And we go, well, 59 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,600 everything is scary and challenging until we get educated about it. And then 60 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,800 it just becomes standard. We've been through these transitions before. It's not really new. 61 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:39,760 It's just we just got to be prepared. Yeah. So, you know, really, I think when we 62 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:44,600 always talk about this, we like to start with where we've been and what, you know, 63 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:49,320 why we're going through this period. So Doug will try to take us through a little bit of that. 64 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:54,440 I find it interesting to talk about where we've been while we're looking towards the future. 65 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:59,360 And what's interesting about hydrocarbons, R290, R600, they're not exactly new. 66 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:04,120 They've been around for 100 years or more. So if you look at the turn of the century, 67 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:09,040 we were using hydrocarbons. And the reason for that is they were simple molecules at the time. 68 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,800 And so we're kind of going back. Frankly, we're making a full circle. 69 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,960 And so I find that intriguing, really. If you look back to the 30s, you know, 70 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:24,760 R12 came along and R502 thereafter, R22. And early 90s, we got into HSCs, 71 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,640 been doing those, been selling obviously HSCs for 30 years. 72 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,160 And we're moving away from that. There's obviously a lot of industry 73 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,160 across going to new refrigerants. And it's going to be by committee. 74 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,560 There's not a single refrigerant that's going to do it. 75 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:38,240 That's exactly right. 76 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:45,720 For smaller systems, hydrocarbons, R290, R600 have a lot of plight for lots of reasons that they will get into. 77 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:50,360 You get into a little bit bigger systems. You're hearing a lot about the A2L refrigerants. 78 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,160 Absolutely, tons of them. 79 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:57,960 Larger CO2 and then ammonia. Again, ammonia has not been new, always been there in that regard. 80 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,360 So it's natural. So it's by committee. 81 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,160 So it's not a single refrigerant, but it's going to be by committee. 82 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,680 So I find that intriguing. You know, you look at all the press with the phase down, 83 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:17,960 that things are really going to hit the fan starting next year with another 30 percent reduction off 2015 baseline. 84 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,680 So each country has its own, you know, its own directory on how to do that. 85 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:27,640 But HSCs will be a little more scarce than they were this year because of the planned phase down. 86 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:34,400 So, with that said, R290, R600, where they can play, will continue to grow. 87 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,120 And so that's the reason for the discussion today. 88 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,120 You know, switching gears, we're not going to go through this chart. 89 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,920 What I like showing here is kind of the buckets of thought. 90 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,360 And so you look at refrigerants that we're leaving. 91 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:52,840 We're phasing down the HSCs, the R134A, 404A, 410A. 92 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:57,120 We're starting a planned phase out. And then you'll listen to the industry. 93 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,360 There's a lot of what we would call transitional refrigerants. 94 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:00,720 Yes. 95 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:06,400 R44A and R449 for refrigeration. 96 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,920 And even though it's new, it's kind of a transitional refrigerant. 97 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,520 R32, Dyken's going to be using that. 98 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:17,600 R54B, you know, Carrier and others are looking at that as an A2L refrigerant for air conditioning. 99 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,240 So they categorize that by DWP. 100 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:27,760 And so, you know, there are 600, 700, 500, you know, DWP values. 101 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,440 And so they're considered transitional. 102 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,520 Now we can use the word transitional. 103 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,760 It might be transitional for a long time. 104 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,240 Yeah, exactly. 105 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:40,840 So it's transitional, but long window for air conditioning. 106 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:47,880 But you look at refrigeration, you get into, and really the topic of discussion today is R290, R600. 107 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,160 They have virtually zero DWP. 108 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:51,880 Three, and very low. 109 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:52,680 Down there. 110 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,040 So these are from an eco profile. 111 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:56,880 They're very good. 112 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:58,400 And from a performance profile. 113 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,400 Yeah, they're good refrigerants. 114 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:01,200 Great refrigerants. 115 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,360 So there's a lot of plus side to that. 116 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:11,960 So it's pockets of thought of, you know, there's where we are, some transitionals to be long and where they want to go. 117 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:17,880 It's all based on a DWP 150 to 300 being max, being more of a long term play there. 118 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,680 You hear a lot of terms out there. 119 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:28,400 Certainly in recent years, A1, A2L, A3, Asprey has safety classifications for refrigerants and how they're listed. 120 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:35,320 So the 134A, 410A, 404A, you know, those are considered A1 refrigerants. 121 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,840 So they are a low toxicity, no flame propagation. 122 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:44,640 They don't provide any flame propagation. 123 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,800 You will hear a lot about the A2Ls. 124 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:48,880 It's low flammability. 125 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:58,240 And so there's a lot that will come out of that in recent, in coming years with the R290, R600A. 126 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,120 We're talking about we call it A3. 127 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,720 So it has a low toxicity, but has a higher flammability. 128 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,360 And so we'll get into that here a little bit. 129 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:07,720 So that's the thing to be aware of. 130 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,400 And it's all can be tempered with education. 131 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:11,800 Just understand what we're dealing with. 132 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,760 So really the refrigerant segment is evolving, right? 133 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,000 It continues to change as we go. 134 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:22,560 So you'll see a lot of news with the HSC, HFO blends that are out there. 135 00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:29,920 And for refrigeration systems, you know, long term wise, you're looking at GWPs of 150 to 300, 136 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,880 depending on the size of the equipment and our application. 137 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:35,400 So those are long term values. 138 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,720 Those are targets we're wanting to hit. 139 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:44,120 So if you look from a long term perspective, planned mainstays, ones that are going to be here long term. 140 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,640 Systems that are here for a little while. 141 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,000 Exactly, exactly. 142 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:54,600 Ammonia, industrial process, cooling, large applications, industrial carbon dioxide, 143 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:59,240 CO2 refrigeration, trans subcritical CO2 applications. 144 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:04,120 We're talking R290 600A for smaller systems. 145 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:11,560 And there's some ones down the road, HSC, HFO blends that have low GWP for supermarket refrigeration. 146 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:12,600 We'll look at as well. 147 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,640 So those are all then there's some automotive applications. 148 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:23,280 So what's interesting with air conditioning, before we get back in refrigeration with R32 or R404AP, 149 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,520 those have higher than 300 GWP. 150 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,800 So technically they're a transition. 151 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,680 I'm not sure what that really means. 152 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:35,520 It's a long term transition, but they have a higher 500 to 700 GWP in that regard. 153 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,520 And there's going to be some areas that are already saying they're not even going to allow that. 154 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:44,320 You know, some states, some jurisdictions, you know, we've got the technology transition rule coming through at the EPA. 155 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,040 You know, all of these things could be expedited. 156 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:52,840 And so when we send out these reports and we send out these newsletters and we put out these blogs and posts and people go, 157 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:57,400 oh, well, yeah, yeah, I see where we're talking about doing that over the, you know, the next 13 years. 158 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:02,960 And we go, well, you know, that is like one of the pieces of legislation. 159 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,960 There are multiple layers in there, and especially depending on where you live. 160 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:12,920 So some of this may come much, much faster than you were anticipating, because some people go, well, we'll yeah, 161 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:14,840 we'll see this in the next year or the next five years. 162 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,840 And I'll go, when's the last time you actually went to Costco or Walmart and looked at a window air conditioner? 163 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,040 They're all already R32. When's the last time you looked at a pop cooler? 164 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,640 Thank you. I noticed one well ago, Keenan. I think it was Matt was saying all the cases at Kroger are 290. 165 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,840 You know, back when I was working, when I was a mobile engineer back at Meyer, so I was doing, you know, 166 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:36,840 new store startups and commissionings and working on older grocery stores and a lot of our checkout lanes, 167 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,520 10, almost 10 years ago, we're converting over to true R290 coolers. 168 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:46,320 So it's not like they're new. I mean, for the last 10 years, you've been walking by R290 coolers 169 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,880 and probably didn't even know it because they hadn't broke yet. 170 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:54,640 But, you know, we're getting a decade in. So now we have to be flexible enough to be able to work on this stuff. 171 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,320 Yep. Yeah, absolutely. 172 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,120 So that that leads us to really the question of, you know, about what about hydrocarbons, right? 173 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:09,320 You know, and where are we going with the new refrigerants that Doug talked about, those A3, R290, R600A? 174 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:14,080 You know, we've got propane or isobutane. And what about them as refrigerant? 175 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:19,280 So what, you know, what you think about when you think about a hydrocarbon as a refrigerant, 176 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:24,880 the important thing to consider is the efficiency. So they provide great heat transfer, which is, you know, 177 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:30,840 helps with the efficiency. So and that's specific when you compare them to the HFCs that they're replacing. 178 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:37,640 So units that are more efficient, need less refrigerant, they use less energy to run. 179 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:42,720 But, you know, that's really the whole name of the game here. All this place is green energy, climate change, 180 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:48,720 legislation, all those things driving towards greener refrigerants using less energy. 181 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,920 And that's that's where all this is coming from. So you mentioned that already, 182 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,640 true manufacturing, Lear, Mantwalk, you've got all these companies moving over. 183 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:05,640 So R290, R600A very commonly used as refrigerants by the OEMs out there in today's marketplace. 184 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:12,680 So, you know, as Doug mentioned, low environmental impact, low GWP, zero ozone depleting potential. 185 00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:18,240 Really, these are these are good eco-friendly refrigerants that are out there in the marketplace now. 186 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,640 Indeed. You know, but you got to consider what's different about them. As Doug mentioned, they're flammable. 187 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:29,320 That's the thing. They're not toxic, but they are highly flammable. So they fall into that A3 category. 188 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:34,120 You know, many of the procedures that a technician is going to use when working on a hydrocarbon system 189 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,640 are very similar to the procedures they're working on other systems. 190 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:42,920 It's that's the procedures and technical ability that they need to have is not that different. 191 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,440 However, the types of tools they have are going to be different. 192 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,240 OK, all right, they're going to have different types of tools with them, 193 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,600 you know, that are specifically for hydrocarbons or designed for that type of refrigerant. 194 00:13:54,600 --> 00:14:00,920 So that's something to keep in mind, the procedures and the skills they need, not really that that different. 195 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,880 The tools might be, though, depending on what they're doing. 196 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,560 So that's important to keep in mind. So in the current guidelines, 197 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:13,920 you know, newly produced units that are specifically designed for R290 or R600A 198 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,720 can contain 150 grams of refrigerant or less. 199 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,680 So that's 5.3 ounces or one third of a pound. 200 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:28,640 That's that's the current limit that you have is 150 grams or less of these. 201 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:34,440 Now, many systems hold significantly under that, but that's the maximum allowable charge. 202 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,040 You know, this is going to be household refrigerators, freezers, 203 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:44,840 vending machines, retail food refrigerators, freezers, ice chests, ice makers. 204 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:45,920 There's so many things out there. 205 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,440 We get on the pop station that you see at the checkout at Walgreens. 206 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,080 That's that's likely going to have R290 in it. 207 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,960 The little freezer cases in the middle of the aisle, all these, those might have 208 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,560 have a, you know, a small R290 system in there. 209 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,840 There's so many things, like you said, you walk by every day. 210 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:05,840 You know, it's already in people's lives. 211 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,000 They just don't know that they're encountering it. 212 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,240 So I've been looking at different manufacturers of commercial refrigeration 213 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:12,280 because that was my specialty. 214 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,560 I worked on a lot of little junk over the years. 215 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,920 And so I was very curious what the manufacturers were doing. 216 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,040 And I have found multiple manufacturers that go all the way up to three door 217 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,200 reach in freezers operating on R290. 218 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,400 So they have a pretty significant amount of capacity 219 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,760 because of the efficiency of the refrigerant. 220 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,040 But yeah, three door reach in freezers absolutely have the potential 221 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:34,880 of having R290 in them. 222 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,520 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Like you said, I mean, it's it's already out there. 223 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,880 And True Manufacturing, who's the St. Louis company that been in, you know, 224 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,720 they've been doing it for years and pretty much everything they have is R290. 225 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,520 It's all over the place already. 226 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,400 And it's just going to keep growing as the legislation keeps expanding. Sure. 227 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,080 A lot of people don't realize that we were talking about this 228 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,840 before the show, you know, this year in the UK, one of the most popular 229 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:03,720 residential systems were R290 powered mono block, basically 230 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,320 water source heat pumps so that you could produce hot water, 231 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,560 cold water off from a mono block outdoor unit running on R290. 232 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:16,960 So we are going to see that moving into the United States and being voted on. 233 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,280 But you have all the building code, you know, that's a long process, 234 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,400 just like we're struggling with A2Ls right now. 235 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,200 But we absolutely have the potential to see larger quantities of R290 236 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,200 going into equipment in the future, depending on its location, its installation. 237 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:30,680 Think about propane right now. 238 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:35,400 How many pounds of that's not technically R290 because it's got sulfur dioxide. 239 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:37,000 It's got odorants in it. 240 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,120 But how many pounds of propane do we have sitting, you know, 241 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,280 a couple of feet from our structure right now outside? 242 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:43,920 Typically 20 plus, right? Yeah. 243 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,240 In propane, because R290 is just a purified propane. 244 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,320 So, you know, there will be a lot of the R290 245 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,160 moving into locations that you may not have been prepared for. 246 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:58,840 Yeah. Well, and that like we've we talked about earlier and we've mentioned, 247 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:00,880 you know, we're we're just scratching the surface. 248 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:05,560 You know, as the laws change and as this push for green energy and, you know, climate 249 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,120 legislation, we're just scratching the surface. 250 00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:11,920 So, you know, where are we going, though? 251 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:13,040 That's important to consider. 252 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:17,320 You know, they have UL has approved increasing the charge limits. 253 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,440 So depending on the types of equipment that it's filling in. 254 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,760 So what we're at now is the 150 grams or less. 255 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,520 What we're eventually going to go to is a maximum of 300 to 500, 256 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,360 depending on the type of appliance that we're looking at. 257 00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:36,040 So you're going to have a maximum charge of 300 grams on closed appliances, 258 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:42,040 like a walk in or something like that, up to 500 grams on a open appliance. 259 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,720 So, you know, we're going to see that that charge limit dramatically increase, 260 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:51,120 which is going to open up more applications for different types of equipment to have this in it. 261 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:53,720 So those changes are in process. 262 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,200 We think, you know, here in the horizon, very near future, 263 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,920 we're going to have started to see more of that design out there. 264 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,760 Dave, Doug, thank you guys so much. 265 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:05,800 All right. Well, thanks, everyone. 266 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,040 Thank you. We'll see you all next week on Did You Know? 267 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:10,840 The ESCO Age Fact Show. 268 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,080 Everyone come back and watch these on YouTube and on the website. 269 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:14,840 Tell everyone about these. 270 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:16,280 It's education for you. 271 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:46,200 See you all.