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Welcome back to Teaching the Unteachables where we dive into teaching and learning

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methodologies for professionals like you. As instructors we have the responsibility

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to teach our students how to take care of themselves. Learn more about personal

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safety at OSHA.com.

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All right welcome everyone thank you for joining Did You Know? the ESCO HVAC

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podcast. So we are hanging out with JR Cock. JR how are you doing my friend? I'm

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doing good how are you? I'm doing extremely well and I know we're starting

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the school season back up and I know you're as busy as can be. So I really

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appreciate your time today. Absolutely. Now one of the things that we've been

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we've talked about before we wanted to dive into is safety and I would almost

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say the lack of safety training in many of our programs. Would you say that

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it's relatively consistent in the industry? This is true. And a lot of it is

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because we don't have the formal training or we don't have the curriculum

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for doing classes like say OSHA 10 and OSHA 30 in the classrooms. So let's dive

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a little bit into safety in the classrooms and tell us a little bit about

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your background especially in safety. Well I've been doing out of high school

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I went into a two-year technical program for HVAC and I didn't think

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about safety probably for the first three years or so that I was out. Until you hurt something.

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Until I hurt myself. And I got a finger here that doesn't string now. Oh okay so that was the thing that started it.

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Yeah yeah a little bit of a sawzall. Mine was a wire wheel strand in the eyeball.

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Yeah. People get on me all the time now because I'm like Mr. Safety and I'm like

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it's for a reason a very good reason. When you impale something onto your body

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you think twice about it the next time. Funny how pain does come with that too.

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I always say the best lessons are the ones we learn. Exactly. So I'm fairly young you know I'm

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just out of high school I go to your tech school. I worked three years in the

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industry and like residential and then I get hurt. The fact that I had gone to

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tech school when I the next job I went to I was able to walk into a place and

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they said hey what about supervising some installations. I've done that at the

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residential level. Sure. And so I started supervising on commercial sites just

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managing the job site and once it became someone you know other

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people were I was in charge of other people. You're reliable for other people's

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safety. Exactly. So I won't say that the first few years that it was you know

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that I even knew where they asked questions at you know. Exactly. It was

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something that okay well we started to have you know we have toolbox talks you

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know weekly talks and stuff and so I learned over time. Of course I'm working

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a lot of union jobs and I got the possibility of people showing up and

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people giving you bad advice like go out the back door if OSHA shows up. That

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doesn't work out really well. Right. And so it's much better to just do something.

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Be prepared. Right. What really got me involved is after I'd done the

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commercial installs I got to working at a college in facilities around when

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Virginia Tech happened and we we started doing you know active shooter training

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and other types of it just built our safety program up and then I've I've run

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into situations over the years where we needed some leadership in that area and

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I've always sat on safety committees since that day since those times. Okay

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so like from your experience if we're looking at our program and we're

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looking at the the safety topics that our students should be exposed to where

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would you start me what are the fundamentals that we need to embrace?

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Well we talked to you mentioned curriculum do we know do we know where

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to find curriculum? Yeah exactly where do you go for it? Um we can hit that as a

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separate topic but there's this thing called it's focus for the OSHA and the

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focus for is you can go right to OSHA's website and type in focus for into their

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into their search engine and it'll come up with focus for and they that is one

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area where they've already written a bunch of curriculum for you. Okay

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excellent. There is actual tests and everything that are on there if you type

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in focus for and the focus for are the areas where OSHA has identified the most

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incidents have taken place in the industry and those would be falls

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electrocution, caught in and caught between so trapped you know in

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some areas. The mention could fall into caught in. Yeah caught between you'd be

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like getting crushed between a piece of machinery or something you know a

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forklift or stake you could fall into those area. So those are those are

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definitely no-brainers those are you start with those and and then you know

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we spent time out in the field and we kind of learned that there's some other

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areas that maybe we were lacking in ourselves and I've built upon that. I've

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of course touch on PPE in class. Yeah exactly. Material handling. Yeah oh I got

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my sheet metal scars. Stitches even. Definitely lockout tag out which would

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fall into like an electrical area. Hascom you know SDS sheets. Yep.

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Confined space okay here here's one that we often as HVAC people is being in a

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cooling tower a confined space. Oh man all right. Definitely addicts and crawl

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spaces. And then one that I like to throw in there is rigging. I spend some time

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students learning how to rig. I know as a commercial installer first time

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helicopters flew over my head and I've done that it's not like we did that all

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the time but I've written that and they walk you through it when you hire

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someone to do that for you but you know still very intimidating situation

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especially if you've never you know learned how to do any kind of rigging

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before. So we spent some time doing rigging in class. So when we think about

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like our students and preparing our students for for training what are some

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of the dangers that are faced by students when we start getting into you

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know safety education? Well there's definitely barriers to barriers to doing

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things that are safe. Like to think about the students some of the barriers

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are within ourselves. I mean I've gotten hurt and even teaching safety I

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continue to get hurt sometimes. Many of us are I'm a bull in a china shop and I

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mean that in that I have to get if there's a task that's at hand I have to

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power through and get that task in hand. I guess I'm not saying I'm bull in a

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china shop as far as clumsy or something like that but I've got to get a

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task done and sometimes very often. Yeah very often and that can that can get you

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in a lot of trouble. I mean if you're not willing to wait for the proper material

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lift to lift something in fact instead you're like oh I'm still strong I'll put

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that up there in that up in that attic or whatever you can get yourself hurt

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that way. So we create some of our own. Of course there's also employers pushing

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for the time getting things done in a certain amount of time.

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Sure. And there's ignorance just not knowing what question to ask and then

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I'd say the other thing is complacency. Once you know how to do something

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safely will you continue to do that or will you get comfortable enough where

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you're not paying attention. I see so many motorcycle riders out there right

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now and I think you know everyone's safe riding that motorcycle as

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they first get out on the road and then if you you know then it starts becoming

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like driving a car once they figured out all the controls and over time maybe

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they don't think about things the way they should and you know it's the same

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way and that I've worked you know on a job site for a lot of our students so so

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you know teaching them to identify those things is something that we need to do.

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And out of that many of those have become regulations that we are required

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to follow. Well yeah that's where OSHA comes into place. I mean that we you

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know regulation comes from the things that you know can hurt and kill us. Right.

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So we get into talking about well OSHA and how OSHA came about.

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And OSHA came about in the 1970 the OSHA was passed and the OSHA set up what we

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we see as OSHA now regulations have built from that. There's four main group

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classifications of that we can train in. There's general industry which you could

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think of as like a facility setting or you know an office setting. There's

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construction and the construction is slightly different than general

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industry because everything's set up in a temporary set setting. I mean some of

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the you know guardrails and things like that they're slightly different just

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because it's in a temporary setting or you or how you're going to assemble that

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structure could be. And then there's a maritime you can get authorized to train

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in a maritime and then our agriculture is its own little area of classifications.

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Now it can be a little bit different between states and regions in accordance

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to federal regulations is that right? This is true we have we have I think it's

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ten regions federally but many states before 1970 had regulations safety

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regulations okay safety offices and so when OSHA the OSHA came in OSHA came in

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the place and we started having federal jurisdiction a lot you were they allowed

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states to keep their own shoes yeah keep their if they were more stringent or was

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it a well it's gonna be like any code like the International Fuel Gas Code

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right those codes it's gonna be the minimum exactly exactly so so you're if

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you're gonna if you're a state entity and you're working on your own not only

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are you gonna have a federal office probably in your state or in your region

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and you're gonna be part of a federal region like Washington next door to us

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and Idaho they have their own OSHA offices but they also have federal

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offices okay so so they do their own thing but it's got to be more stringent

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than what OSHA OSHA is gonna be the minimum sure so OSHA is the the

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fundamental and we see that in our own you know HVAC regulations you know you

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can have certain requirements at a state level but you may have a city or a

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county that has more stringent requirements you still have to meet all

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the basics of the state but you dive a little bit deeper so it's kind of the

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same way with OSHA from the federal perspective you still have to meet this

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everywhere but you may be required to dive deeper into your own region or your

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own state so it's very important to know what those requirements are in your area

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especially if you're moving from one region or one state to another exactly

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awesome all right so let's talk about the classes right so where and how could

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one get authorized by OSHA to provide OSHA 10 and OSHA 30 training and the

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cards that go along with them okay well I'll tell you what I did and I had a

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background in safety because I ran I was on safety committees so so I went to my

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regional office OSHA office and that's in Washington and they have a training

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facility there Pacific Northwest OSHA yeah I'm looking up at my card right now

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Pacific Northwest OSHA Education Center of University of Washington gotcha that's

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the regional yeah and so so in the Pacific Northwest if you're in if you're

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listening and you're in Idaho Washington Oregon or Las Vegas and and actually you

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might have there's a few more of them but that was one to me and and first off

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they're gonna they're gonna ask you to like document over your experience

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experience the in safety and you and so I don't know what the threshold level is

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there but I was able to document enough experience with my safety committees

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that I've been on and so forth that say this is a certain percentage of my job

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I had to present it to them as a certain percentage of my career job okay and

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once that's approved then you get to go in and take a train the trainer course

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I think it's OSHA 500 and 510 is occupational safety and standards one that

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kind of goes through the standards book and you got to have a standards book

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this primary source right right there's the code that you're you got to get you

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got to at least know how to look something up right at least be able how

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to find it yes so so you take the you take a train to train a course and you

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take that and then you and then you're authorized and that's the term terminologies

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that they use I have my cards that I'm authorized to provide training in

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construction you have to pick one of those four that we talked mentioned

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earlier oh okay so doesn't it's not a blanket coverage for all the different

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sectors exactly exactly I was just on a trip and I ran into someone from another

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state it was oh you're an OSHA trainer and I said yeah where you live and oh

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that's too far away to help them out but sure he's looking for somebody that's in

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that specific area right the train so okay so yeah so you get authorized to

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train in a certain area you've got a certain set of curriculum if I check for

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a 10-hour or 30-hour card there is gonna be a certain amount of curriculum that

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you have to teach according to OSHA standards and then you get some leeway

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in some other areas so I can kind of tailor the rest of the content of the

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content for my little bit more specific to the application right and there's

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nothing where that says that if we're talking about rigging I can't focus on

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rigging for HDAC yeah exactly you know so and so forth and what about testing

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then do you become like a proctor for testing no I hold all my own tests I can

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write my own tests okay so there's no standard OSHA tests that I have to

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include I have to teach the content right I do have to prove their their

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knowledge competency the big one is if this is the hardest for me as an

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instructor of a two if I do a 30-hour card that's almost two weeks content

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yeah exactly that's a lot to fit in yes definitely will the students show up

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every day right because OSHA makes you maintain a log of your time's there of

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who's there they have to sign it and if they're not there that day one day out

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of that two weeks then they don't qualify for their card okay so after

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after meeting the requirements of your say we're doing an OSHA 10 and we've

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met our 10 hours of physical classroom time what's the procedure for acquiring

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your card then at that point I submit in a report to the University of Washington

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in my case yeah University of Washington in my case I submitted a report that

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says that these people completed it and I pay a fee I think it just went up to

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like ten dollars a card for me so it's not super expensive so even you within

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my just pay for it out of my budget exactly but you can have your students

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pay for it I suppose and then then it's pretty quick I usually get the cards

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back in about a week or so and then you take I have to I have to take a picture

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of the front and back of each card and keep that for my records and I can hand

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them out to everybody they come with a test so I know it's a lot to add

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particularly for doing like that he said the 30 hour that's a lot of physical

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class time but now we're talking about you know introducing safety into our

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curriculum as well and I'm sure any school administration is going to look

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that go well yeah it's definitely an important curriculum to have within our

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portfolio but what if it's something that we're looking for what if our

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advisory board is asking for our students to acquire their OSHA 10 or

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their OSHA 30 before going into the field but we're not going to be

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equipped or maybe we don't have the additional hours to introduce that

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curriculum into our program what are other ways that the students can get

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their 10 and 30 hour training I try not to name drop but it's just something

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that I'm working with right now and I'm working with the interplay publishers

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and other terms have the same deal but you a lot of them have agreements to

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provide OSHA training virtual online style training yeah so you could make it

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you could have it as part of that those readings or whatever that you guys a

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requirement for home training or is home assignments nothing like the hands-on

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though we all know that well we should be doing hands-on when we're in the lab

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no matter what our curriculum is right so I mean you know they're gonna have

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their safety glasses on and maybe I have mine update SDA even if I wasn't doing

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OSHA cards they'd be up to it they know what an SDSG is and stuff

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I'm sort of that I mean we all have experience in the field we've all I mean

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we're HVAC people yeah oh we know what won't kill us I can tell you that and

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you know I found over the time that the students really respond well when you

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share those experiences life lessons are top curriculum content so no you know

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you don't need a you don't need to hand out cards that teach safety

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it's nice yeah fantastic well JR I really appreciate your time and we hope

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that anyone that is interested in adding OSHA 10 and OSHA 30 safety to their

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programs now have a little bit better direction we sure appreciate your time

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today absolutely