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Welcome to the future, technologies and innovations that sculpt our industry.

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Stay up to date with EPA regulations at EPA.gov and stay tuned to Did You Know?

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The ESCO Age Fact Show.

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We're hanging out with our very own Jason Abjude.

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How are you buddy?

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I'm good.

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How are you Clifton?

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I'm doing great.

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After last week's show, we were hanging out talking about A3 equipment that was coming

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to the industry and A3 trainers for our classrooms.

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And I actually had some emails asking me when we thought we were going to see these new

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refrigerants out in the industry.

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And I went, oh boy.

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That's really where we are out here in no man's land trying to keep the industry aware

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of the changes that are happening all around us.

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Those R290 pieces of equipment we were talking about.

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I ran into my first one back in 2016 in a checkout lane at a Meijer grocery store.

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So they've been around a good while in some aspect or another, but we have a lot of new

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refrigerants coming as well.

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And you know, yeah, we've got our residential and our light commercial, which is going through

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some transitions.

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We'll talk about that.

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They're going to see a couple of different refrigerants.

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But when we start talking about commercial refrigeration, man, that's a whole nother

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animal in itself, isn't it, Jason?

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It is.

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Yeah, I was just going to say residentially, upstairs in my kitchen, I've got an R600A

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refrigerator.

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It's been there for about five years.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So nothing new to the industry.

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So what is new to the industry?

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Well, that's what we're here to talk about.

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What is changing?

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What can we be prepared for?

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And how soon is it going to get here?

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Because some of it's here, some of it's going to be here very, very fast.

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So let's talk a little bit about our refrigerant transitions before we get too deep into what

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the new refrigerants are.

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If we step way back, when we started on our R12, when we started making our descending

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changes in chemicals, it was to reduce our ozone depletion, right?

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So we started with our very high ozone depleting refrigerants.

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We started knocking those off.

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We came up with replacements for those.

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We went from our CFC refrigerants and we did have some of our HCFCs at the same time.

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So we started transitioning.

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We started walking our way into HFC refrigerants where we removed the chlorine that was in

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the refrigerants.

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And then we were now faced with a global warming due to the fluorine that was in the refrigerants,

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right?

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So as we started continuing down our transition of refrigerants, we made some changes.

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We're now making a lot of changes, okay?

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And so we need to be aware of what these look like.

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So we're now moving into a variety of refrigerants.

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For those refrigerants, or most of those refrigerants that we worked with in the past were A1 ashyrate

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classification.

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So they were very, very slightly or non-flammable refrigerants.

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They were non-toxic.

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So as we move into these new classes of like A2, A2L, and A3, we need to be prepared for

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where we're going to see those because they are going to be in some pieces of equipment

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that look similar to each other, but might be for very different applications.

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Some may not even be able to be allowed to be installed in the local building codes.

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So we may see two different classes of refrigerants in a very similar piece of equipment based

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on your location.

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Is that some of the things that you hear?

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Yeah.

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One of the things that we noticed like with the previous generations of refrigerants is

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that you would see one refrigerant used across seven, eight different applications.

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We used to use R12 everywhere.

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Everything.

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Cars, coolers, walk-ins, stationaries.

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Hook dispensers.

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I mean, you named it.

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So we're going to start to see more application specific type refrigerants where this refrigerant

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is used in this application.

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This refrigerant is used specifically here.

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We're going to see a lot more of that moving forward.

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Exactly.

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So let's dive into them.

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Let's see what we've got and let's break them apart a little bit.

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So we're going to see definitely our HFOs, very, very popular refrigerants out there.

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So they're at the very bottom of our scale, very low global warming potential.

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We're going to see a lot of hydrocarbons primarily in our smaller equipment.

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And I will show you and talk about a lot of what those are here really soon.

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And we also have some blends that are HFO and HFC blends.

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Remember we are on this transition away from HFC refrigerants.

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It is not a complete phase out like we've seen with CFCs and HCFCs.

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It is a phase down, but it's a phase down by 85%.

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And that's a big chunk.

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That's a huge chunk.

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And it's most of the refrigerants that we all ready know.

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So to be able to meet the demand, we're going to have some blended refrigerants out there

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that will use still some of these HFCs.

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So they're not completely going away.

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We're just using less of them in new refrigerants and they're going to be blended with other

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like HFOs.

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So what ones are already available, what ones are coming.

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That's what we're here to talk about.

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So Jason, tell us a little bit about the entire SNAP side of EPA.

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So if we want to use a refrigerator and if I'm a manufacturer, a refrigerator manufacturer,

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equipment manufacturer, one of the requirements is that it is approved by EPA through the

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SNAP, the Significant New Alternatives Program.

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So there has to be an application submitted to SNAP.

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There's documentation that's required.

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And then the EPA will evaluate for a very specific application, whether or not this

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refrigerant is an acceptable substitute for that application.

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We have a lot of different, what they call end uses.

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These are all just different applications.

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And you can see the refrigerants that have been approved for those applications.

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That doesn't mean they can be used everywhere or anywhere.

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And there are what we call subject to use limitations.

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So there's going to be charge limitations.

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It doesn't mean that I can use R290 at 15 pounds or 30 pounds.

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There's a...

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It's very specific.

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It is very specific.

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Yes.

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So when we get into what you mentioned earlier, 2L, 2 and 3 refrigerants on the flammability

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scale, there are going to be charge limitations based on one, the flammability and two, the

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application.

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Is it a commercial occupancy?

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How big is it?

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Right.

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What's the free airspace around this piece of appliance?

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Is it in a closet?

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These are things that we didn't usually, again, in the past with the A1 refrigerants, with

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that I-RCLs, it wasn't something that concerned us or that we paid much attention to, especially

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with 410A because it has such a high RCL.

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It was something that we didn't really pay attention to, but it is something moving forward

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that we are going to have to pay a lot of attention to.

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Exactly.

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If you look at the EPA and the refrigerants that they had to work with in the past, they

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had a fair amount of work to decide what refrigerant is going to be utilized.

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Now they have a lot of continual work.

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So we're going to see these new updates.

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The current one right now that we're under is called the SNAP 26 proposal.

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I just want to point out this is SNAP 26.

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So there's 23, 24, 25, 26.

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All of these SNAP proposals are based on, again, new refrigerants that we're having

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to use across a wide variety of applications.

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So this is only a proposal.

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It should be finalized.

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I believe the comment period is closed and it should be finalized in the next few months.

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But SNAP 23 was one of the first ones that approved A2Ls for use.

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Then there was 24 and 25 and 26.

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And again, just expanding on the applications.

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And the different refrigerants that are going to be approved in those applications.

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And there'll probably be a few more within the next year or so, depending on who submits

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an application to SNAP to say, listen, we need to use this refrigerant in this application.

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Sure.

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So we could see this particular chart added onto.

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We could potentially see new refrigerants.

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I'm sure there are a lot of other refrigerants out there being tested.

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But right now, this is our most current.

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So if it is accepted as is, which is anticipated to happen, these will be the new refrigerants

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going into new pieces of equipment.

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New equipment, correct.

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Starting very, very soon.

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And this is where people get hung up.

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They think, oh, well, is this going to be alternative refrigerants that we're talking

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about in a few years?

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Or is this going to be an optional refrigerant?

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No, this is it.

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These are the new refrigerants that would be allowed in new pieces of equipment based

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on these.

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We're going to break them down.

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So we'll talk about them a little bit more in depth.

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Our commercial ice machines, which are remote condenser style.

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So these are split system commercial ice machines, particularly industrial process refrigeration.

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So that's industrial refrigeration devices, our cold storage warehouses, ice skating rinks,

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retail food refrigeration.

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So a lot of our commercial refrigeration equipment, whether it's standalone or it's grocery store,

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we're going to go through each of those and show you exactly what that looks like.

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So a lot happening in the refrigeration side of our industry.

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This is all based again on GWP, the global warming potential.

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And there's a lot of talk about what that is and what limitations are.

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And there's something called the technology transition rule that limits for new equipment

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what the GWP of the refrigerant can be.

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We anticipate this to be finalized in October, October 7 to be specific.

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But what this means is as if you look at a lot of the dates, January 1, 2025, what that

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means is a piece of equipment that's going to be put into the market by January 1, 2025

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has to have operate on a refrigerant that's at the proposed GWP limit or under exactly

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which we're probably going to see this pass as well.

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That's what we hear on the street.

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Yes, there might be some minor modifications to one or two of the dates or one or two of

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the subsectors, but it's going to look a lot like what you see on the screen.

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And I want to point out or highlight the residential light commercial air conditioning and heat

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pump systems at 700 GWP by January 1, 2025.

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So folks that are saying, listen, we got time.

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This isn't common.

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Listen, by January 1, 2025, new equipment has to operate on refrigerants that are at

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700 GWP or less.

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Okay.

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So we're talking January 21st, 25 for residential systems.

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We're talking about January 26 for our VRV, VRF systems.

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So that's a lot to think about what happens with the refrigerant.

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So we know.

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So let's think about that.

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So we've had like our 22 moving away.

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So we've seen replacements for our 22, like 407, 422, 17, a snap, a snap of who substitutes

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for our 22.

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Exactly.

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There's a lot of things out there.

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What about like our 410?

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We are comfortable 410, 404.

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I mean, there's a lot, 134A.

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These are all refrigerants that I've grown up with.

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And I'm very, very comfortable with.

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What about you?

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What's the ones that you like?

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Well, here's the interesting thing.

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There's a lot of refrigerants out there that are sweating bullets right now because they

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are not going to be able to meet any of these limits.

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So we have a lot going on in the industry.

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We can talk about CR2 a little bit if we need to.

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We can talk about the transition into A2Ls in the residential light commercial.

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The most important thing to be aware of is that we have things that are happening from

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different sides of the industry that are going to come together to affect what these refrigerants

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look like in the equipment.

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So you could have EPA saying, hey, you know, we're going to say that these are the only

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refrigerants that can be used.

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And then we're also going to go, and by the way, we're going to set these limits on equipment.

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And then you can also have local jurisdictions like we've already seen in California going,

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yeah.

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And I think I'm going to be a little bit even tighter than that.

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Right.

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Right.

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So we have to be very careful with understanding refrigerants.

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All right.

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So real quick, I want to point out that a lot of the refrigerants that we saw and the

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refrigerants that are going to meet these GWP limits are not necessarily new refrigerants.

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They might be new to us.

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Yeah, exactly.

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They've been on the mark.

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Like one, two, three, four YF has been in cars forever.

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I've got a 2016 Ram.

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It's in it.

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Yeah.

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2012 was first Cadillac that we've seen with it here.

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In 2015, we saw R32, which is an ethuel.

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Absolutely.

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And window units.

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00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:20,480
We've seen 290 and 600A, which are highly flammable A3s in the residential refrigerators

244
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,660
and freezers and commercial applications reaching coolers and freezers.

245
00:12:24,660 --> 00:12:29,280
So just because they're new to us doesn't mean they're new to the industry.

246
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,480
And propane goes way back to the 30s and 20s.

247
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:33,480
Yes.

248
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:34,480
Absolutely.

249
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,800
A hundred years, well over a hundred years for R290 propane that we know.

250
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:37,800
Right.

251
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:43,120
One of the reasons we came up with chlorofluorocarbons is because we were looking for a non-flammable,

252
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:44,560
non-toxic refrigerant.

253
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:45,560
Right?

254
00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:46,560
So we did.

255
00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:47,560
We came up with CFCs.

256
00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:48,560
So these aren't new.

257
00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:49,560
A lot of them.

258
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:54,720
And if we want to talk a little bit about the blends on these, like the 454s, and we'll

259
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:55,720
talk about that here in a minute.

260
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,440
We'll come back to that because even a lot of these numbers that you're not familiar

261
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:03,880
with right now are blends of some of these other numbers like R32 and 1234YF.

262
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:04,880
A lot of them.

263
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:05,880
Yes.

264
00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:06,880
Yeah.

265
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,600
So that's a better understanding.

266
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,080
So what does that mean?

267
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,040
I know no one hopped in there on the chat.

268
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:14,040
I feel heartbroken.

269
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:18,840
410A and 407C were the two that got picked on the most there.

270
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:19,840
Yeah.

271
00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:20,840
Exactly.

272
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,400
So let's take a look real quick while we're here.

273
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:27,160
Now, if you want to learn more about all of our A2Ls and the low GWPs and exactly what

274
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:32,360
this looks like and the safety procedures, you need to head on over to Jason's low GWP

275
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:33,960
training program, right?

276
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,000
All available on escogroup.org.

277
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It's on our e-learning network.

278
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:43,560
If you're interested in diving deeper into low GWP refrigerants, whether they're A2Ls

279
00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:49,720
or A3s, we've got the deep diving resources for you to get better familiar with these.

280
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,720
If you haven't started, you should start now.

281
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:52,720
Yeah.

282
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:53,720
Well, we were talking about this before the show started.

283
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:58,000
You know, I feel like we're halfway down this slippery slope and the majority of our industry

284
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,160
is up at the top going, what are you doing down there?

285
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,360
What's going on over there?

286
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,880
And so we really have a lot to catch up with in our industry.

287
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:13,080
So what refrigerants are going to be going away, whether they get caught by the new refrigerants

288
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:18,400
and equipment or they get caught by the reduced GWP in equipment, it's going to be pretty

289
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,560
much everything you're already comfortable with, right?

290
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,120
And when we look at just the global warming potential of these refrigerants, we're going

291
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:27,840
to see very high GWPs.

292
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:33,400
Remember, when we went away from R22, we reduced our ozone depleting potential.

293
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:38,800
That was the goal, but we actually went up in global warming potential.

294
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,320
So now we are battling global warming potential in our refrigerants.

295
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,360
So everything that you work with now, whether you're in light commercial, whether you're

296
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,800
in residential, you're in industrial, you're in refrigeration, you're going to see your

297
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,720
most popular friends going away in a very, very, very quick.

298
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,880
Before you skip to this, I just want to throw this out there.

299
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,400
So we're looking at the GWP numbers on these cylinders.

300
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,040
Let's take, for example, 410A.

301
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,000
It says it has a GWP of 2,090.

302
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,000
Yeah.

303
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,000
What does that mean?

304
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,000
What does that mean?

305
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:11,280
What that means is if 410A were to be vented to the at least here, that means it can trap

306
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:16,560
2,090 times more heat than CO2 by itself.

307
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,800
So CO2 has a GWP of one.

308
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:26,800
So 410A, when released in the same amount as CO2, can trap 2,090 times as much heat

309
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,920
in the 100 year time period, right?

310
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:30,920
Then CO2 by itself.

311
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:31,920
Wow.

312
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:38,280
So if you look at those numbers, 4048, 3,920, I mean, it's huge.

313
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:39,280
Yeah.

314
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:40,280
Yeah.

315
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,320
And that is our primary low temp refrigerant in refrigeration systems, right?

316
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:48,760
You know, if we get into commercial refrigeration, we primarily right now are using 134A for medium

317
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,240
temp and 404 for low temp.

318
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,280
Both of those are going away very rapidly.

319
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,520
In some states, they've already gone.

320
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:57,520
They're already gone.

321
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,240
There's some local jurisdictions that said, listen, get this stuff out of here.

322
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:01,800
We don't want to sell it here no more.

323
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,680
I'm not going to mention any names and make anyone mad, but there are some states that

324
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:06,680
Limited liability.

325
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:07,680
Yes.

326
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:09,240
They said, listen, we're done with this.

327
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:10,240
Move on.

328
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,040
Move on to something new.

329
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:26,040
So if you're already working with 410A, 404A, 134A, 422B, 407C and 458A, so those last

330
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:31,080
three are just our 22 replacements, all on that chopping block, which we don't really

331
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:32,080
see in new equipment anyhow.

332
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:36,160
There are more of a service gas, but just to be aware of how they align up with the

333
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:37,800
rest of these refrigerants, right?

334
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,520
The higher down is going to affect these refrigerants just because of their GWP.

335
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,560
So let's talk about that phased down.

336
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,160
All right.

337
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:50,420
So what is this phase down?

338
00:16:50,420 --> 00:16:51,560
We keep preaching this phase down.

339
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:57,440
Well, the phase down means that we have already started the reduction of the amount of HFC

340
00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:58,440
refridgerator.

341
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,280
Did anybody who said that we've already started a lot of people say, when is this going to

342
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,400
start or when is this going to happen here at all the time?

343
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,760
It started last year, January 1 of last year.

344
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:15,600
Did anyone see the prices of R410A, R404, R134A?

345
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,720
Did you see the prices of any of those go up this last year by chance?

346
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,040
Just out of curiosity.

347
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,700
I see it on forums all the time and every once in a while I'll hop in and I'll put

348
00:17:24,700 --> 00:17:28,400
a reply and people will just treat me like I'm some maniac and I'm just coming up with

349
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,360
this stuff out of my ear, but this is the truth.

350
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:36,440
So last year we started a 10%, January 1st of 2022, we started a 10% reduction down our

351
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:46,160
slide, which means if we made a million pounds of a HFC refrigerant in 2021, we made 900,000

352
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,120
pounds of it the following 2022.

353
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:51,640
So what's that do for if our demand?

354
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,520
So let's think about basic economics.

355
00:17:53,520 --> 00:18:01,640
If our demand goes up and our production goes down, what's going to happen to the price?

356
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:02,640
Or stock.

357
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:03,640
Right.

358
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:04,920
It's going to increase.

359
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:10,360
So for anyone that questions why the price of refrigerants went up in 2022 more than

360
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:14,400
any other year, here's the slippery slope that we began.

361
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,960
Here's the interesting thing and make sure you pay attention to this.

362
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:29,400
January 1st, 2024, we're going to add an additional three times that 30%, an additional

363
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:30,400
30% reduction.

364
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:31,400
We've already came down 10.

365
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:39,080
We're not going to step down to a 40% reduction in the amount of HFCs that are newly manufactured.

366
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,520
So that is going to be a huge driving force on the cost of refrigerants, which is in turn

367
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,560
causing our manufacturers to utilize these new refrigerants, sometimes maybe ahead of

368
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,440
schedule just because of the prices of refrigerants.

369
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:55,960
So when we say these are our deadlines, when snap 26 is approved, which probably going

370
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,680
to in our equipment, GWP is approved.

371
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,380
We're not going to start then we're going to start before then.

372
00:19:01,380 --> 00:19:03,920
So that we're prepared for when we get there.

373
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:09,560
So this equipment is going to be out and be ready when those before those dates come before

374
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:14,840
you get off the slide, I want to kind of explain how this how the aim act here works.

375
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,240
The aim act was passed by Congress, signed by the president.

376
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:19,240
So it's not going to go away.

377
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,240
Not going away for the naysayers.

378
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,600
The next president's not going to remove it.

379
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,140
It's not just an overall reduction of all HFCs.

380
00:19:28,140 --> 00:19:32,080
It works like a bank account where there's an allotment every year.

381
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:33,080
Okay.

382
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:34,080
And look at me.

383
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,040
Oh, like a wallet.

384
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:37,040
Let's say a bank account.

385
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,040
That's right.

386
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,520
If I'm a refrigerant manufacturer and I get my allotment from the government, the EPA

387
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:47,920
says, get my little child, I can make a million pounds based on pounds or based on carbon

388
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,960
emissions based on the GWP.

389
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,520
So me as the manufacturer, I get to decide what I'm going to make.

390
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,200
But each tank of refrigerant I make is going to draw from those credits.

391
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,640
It's going to deduct from my bank account.

392
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:05,200
So if I'm a manufacturer and I want to make enough refrigerant to sell all year, I'm going

393
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,120
to probably pick and choose the lower GWP ones.

394
00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:10,120
I can make more tanks of it.

395
00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:11,120
Correct.

396
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:12,120
Yeah, absolutely.

397
00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:13,760
Some manufacturers are just going to look at them high ones.

398
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:18,360
I don't want to point fingers, but let's say 4048, 3920.

399
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:19,360
That's a big chunk.

400
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:20,360
All right.

401
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:22,520
That's a big withdrawal from my allotment.

402
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,720
What if as an HFO at like seven, right?

403
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,520
Or our our 32 at 676.

404
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:29,520
Exactly.

405
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:30,520
So three and a half.

406
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:31,520
Yeah.

407
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:32,520
Yeah.

408
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,000
This is going to affect some refrigerants more than others.

409
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,000
Exactly.

410
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,840
Based on again, the manufacturer and based on the GWP of the refrigerant.

411
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:44,280
So when you ask what's going to happen to say 407C, well, it does have a pretty high

412
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:45,560
GWP.

413
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:46,800
Some people will still make it.

414
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,200
We'll see it reduced.

415
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:49,200
Right.

416
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,640
It's not going to be as if it's high GWP, but we're going to see the higher GWP refrigerants

417
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:54,640
affected the most.

418
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,560
The yeah, the the soonest.

419
00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:02,520
It's based on credits that or allotments that the EPA hands out to the manufacturers and

420
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,880
each tank pulls from that allotment.

421
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,880
And once they've reached their limit, they're done for the year on that.

422
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:08,880
And the carbon emissions.

423
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:09,880
Wow.

424
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,880
So when we think about how this is affecting us and we go, oh, this is just the industry,

425
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,600
this is just the government.

426
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:16,760
Everyone is being affected by this.

427
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,600
Remember, this is all based on international treaties, not just local jurisdictions.

428
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,640
You know, we talk about the Kigali Amendment.

429
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,960
You know, that was an amendment to the Montreal Protocol.

430
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:31,600
It was an international treaty to reduce our effect to the world that we live on with the

431
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:37,080
refrigerants that we use in air conditioning, refrigeration, foam blowing aerosols, Friday,

432
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,080
different things.

433
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,760
Europe's gas regulations are the same.

434
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,040
They're very in line with us.

435
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:42,040
Yeah.

436
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,880
So we're not the only ones doing it.

437
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,680
No, we just need to understand it and understand it.

438
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,520
And how it affects us.

439
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,560
So yes, big changes in all of those HFC refrigerants.

440
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,960
You know, and a big reason that we're here to do this is to help understand if we're

441
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:02,480
not educated, we end up having byproducts of a lack of education.

442
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:03,480
All right.

443
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,480
Well, I think we'll wrap it up.

444
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,280
Jason, thank you so much for hanging out, man.

445
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:09,280
Thanks for having me on, dude.

446
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:14,240
I'd love to see you on here more, you know, and it's just a crazy time in the industry.

447
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,240
And right now, yes, there's a lot.

448
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,000
There's so much going on.

449
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,120
We need to let everybody know what's going on.

450
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:22,120
We're doing our best.

451
00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:28,440
We're reaching out via these shows, podcasts, webcasts, emails, flyers, classes in person

452
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:29,440
online.

453
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:34,160
I mean, it's a big tall order to fill, but we're doing our best.

454
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:35,640
Yeah, we do.

455
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:36,640
All right.

456
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,440
Well, everyone have a wonderful rest of your day and we look forward to hanging out with

457
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:46,440
you again the next time.