The mic is hot and the game is on. You're listening
to News for the Nation podcast by Aces Nation,
where we talk about nutrition, sports performance,
the journey of a student athlete, and more. I'm
Claire. I'm Zach. Time to level up. Welcome back
sports fans. Today we're going over another documentary
as it relates to sports. Today we're going over
Doping for Gold. It's a story about the East
German Women's Olympic teams during the 1970s,
back when the Berlin Wall was still a thing.
Claire, you've seen pictures of the Berlin Wall?
Yes. Yeah. Have you seen video of them tearing
it down? Yes. Yeah, because it was in the documentary,
for sure. I've seen it before, though. I saw
it probably in my history class. Nice. Claire,
can you name? Any years and locations where the
Olympics took place? Where were they? Look, I
don't know where all the 1970s ones were, but
are you just saying in general in general? Yeah,
come on. Oh, Beijing. OK, what? Eighteen. Two
thousand eight or two thousand eight. Oh, sorry.
London 2012. Hey, all right. That's all I got.
Yeah, I know. I mean, there was the the weird
covid year one that happened in like 2021. It
was like off it by a year, you know. Yeah. But
anyway, so we're going to be going over just
to review after we watched it. Yeah, let's just
jump right into it. So what the story is about
doping for gold back in the 70s, like maybe the
late 60s. uh, steroid use became like a really
popular thing, especially in the, what do they
call it? The Eastern block or like Eastern part
of the, the nation or the world, um, over in
Russia and these other countries that were under
Soviet influence. So this is just a recollection
or just a documentary that explains how standardized
and secret it was. Um, kind of a amazing story
that I've never heard of. I never heard of this
before until we watched this documentary. So
it was great. There was your first reaction to
everything when you saw it. It was pretty eye
opening and wild. I think most of the time when
you think about performance enhancing drugs or
steroid use, you think of somebody voluntarily.
and knowingly taking those things to enhance
their performance. But this was interesting because
these young female athletes, what were they?
Middle and high school age athletes were unknowingly
given these basically testosterone supplements
or drugs, a form of synthetic testosterone. unknowingly
um trusting their coaches and their doctors for
you know some pretty i don't want to say necessarily
like sinister but were definitely ulterior motives
and um it was very sad to see that it ruined
some of their lives yeah so basically everything
that happened was uh Athletes like youth athletes,
these kids were identified at an early age as
being really good in their sports. Right. And
so then the clubs that were somehow probably
controlled by the government, I think, would
after they identified them, they would bring
them in to like these sports club training places
that were basically like feeder systems to the
Olympic national team. And they would just start.
putting them on this program where doctors were
involved in giving them these these drugs. I
think most of it was in pill form until later
when they started. So they were given these pills
and parents just outright trusted doctors. I
mean, pretty much as you should. Right. Are you
a thing? Yeah. You would hope that you could
just do that, that someone based on their ethical
oaths that you could trust them. Right. Yep.
Sport coaches were in on it too. And then a myriad
of politicians that were controlling the country
were definitely in on as well with heavy Soviet
influence. So East Germany being the side that
was really heavily influenced by the Soviet Union
at the time. So anyways, that's that's what it
was in this documentary kind of explained how
how they went about it. as far as the officials
and the people in the nation, coaches, politicians
and stuff, how they went about administering
this, keeping records about it, basically almost
perfecting how they did it, right? Yeah. And
then the consequences of that on the physical
consequences and the societal consequences that
the athletes had to face. because of something
they didn't know was going on. And they they
definitely didn't want to happen to them. Yeah,
exactly. Really fascinating and crazy story.
And definitely saddening for to hear some of
the athletes continue to talk, you know, about
where they are now and what they faced during
that time. So let's kind of go through the beginning
of it. Like what what was your reaction to how
much protocol was put into play for this, you
know? Yeah, I mean, there was obviously a lot
of thought put into how this strategy was going
to play out. I do think in a way, again, they
were very strategic and they were giving these
things in pill form. They were giving them among
other things. So it wasn't like, here's this
one pill, take it. They were giving them. other
things as well. So probably other vitamins and
supplements to kind of shield the, you know,
maybe suspicion of that they're getting something
they shouldn't be getting. And even from like
a shot perspective, too, like when you think
about things that promote, again, a vitamin perspective,
B12 shots are very common. It's, you know, people
a lot of times prefer to get a B12 injection.
you know, like once a month or every couple of
weeks versus taking pills every day, whatever
the case might be. So, you know, it's not necessarily
something that was out of the ordinary. And I
think that the fact that those doctors and coaches
were kind of taking advantage of those young
athletes is very saddening. But it was fascinating
to kind of see, especially at that time, like
how much precision was put into these protocols
for these athletes of dosage and and maybe There
could have been a little bit more from a dosage
perspective Considering how many harmful side
effects there were But yeah, it was just very
interesting to see something that probably as
a dietitian I would put time and consideration
to into like a supplement protocol So it was
very interesting. But at the same time it was
kind of like that dark side of of what you would
want to do from maybe more of like a supplement
or vitamin protocol. Yeah. You've seen Icarus,
right? I have. Yeah. So I thought it was interesting
to compare the two because I've seen Icarus and
definitely this system seemed more precise, as
you said, than the other one. And also it seems
like they were they had a better handle on keeping
it under wraps for a longer period of time. Right.
So I think one of the doctors or someone in the
documentary that was speaking made a joke about
like, that's how the only reason it was as documented
and specific as it was, was because they were
Germans doing the work. And that's the reason
why they wrote everything down and kept everything
to protocol. So, but yeah, I thought it was.
Amazing, not necessarily in an ethical way, but
maybe like in a how well they kept it under the
radar. It's just incredible how they did that.
Yeah, just overall, like fascinating from a weirdly
curious perspective of mine of just like, wow,
you guys really thought that through and like
didn't want anything to happen. But they also
had no regard for. these these kids, all they
cared about was getting the gold, winning money
and, you know, like bringing fame to their nation
for financial gain. And that was another that
was another joke they made was this was a socialist
country at the time. And ironically, they were
driven by capitalist goals to get more money
for themselves. You know? Yeah. So that was just
interesting all around. Like sometimes I just
can't even wrap my head around like what word
to use there. But they definitely had everything
and they kept they kept tweaking the method.
Right. To make sure that it was working, to make
sure that they didn't get caught. You know, they
have one. They had the one slip up that they
mentioned because it was a coach's misstep. I'm
sure that coach got fired or something. I don't
know. Who knows what happened to them back then.
But They probably disappeared but yeah they um
it was interesting of how it evolved and they
learned when they needed to cycle off of the
the drugs because there was no in competition
or there was only in competition testing there
was no like random testing which if you're an
athlete now you know that the NCAA or other organ
like governing bodies of sports will do random
drug testing now for that reason. Yeah, it was
crazy for sure. Just wild. Yeah, I do Sorry,
I was gonna say I do think that these types of
documentaries and I don't know if you noticed
this but when I was watching it on YouTube Because
it was what was it a PBS documentary series something
like that. I think it was called secrets of the
dead Yeah, something like that. It was wild to
me how many other like docu series or videos
came up about Doping in sports on there and then
on YouTube But then also when you think about
just how many are out there in general there
are so many out there and it just all of them
kind of beg the question like will this will
doping and the use of performance enhancing drugs
and some substances and banned substances ever
stop in sports I would argue no In an ideal world
probably but I think it's important these you
know documentaries and things coming out that
athletes understand the consequences of taking
them and while it may give you short -term results
the stress that you're putting on your musculoskeletal
system your hormones your endocrine system all
of these things is going to really wreak havoc
on your body later on like you could have such
success in a short amount of time but Mean and
you can see this in like a lot of bodybuilders
to like bodybuild that the bodybuilding world
is very runs rampant with performance enhancing
drugs and there are a lot of them that struggle
with really serious chronic health issues later
on in life because Because of the use of those
drugs, but also because what they put their body
through while on those substances Yeah But let's
let's Cover the Olympic, I don't know success.
Yeah, they had What they they won quite a bit
the things that I remember were swimming they
dominated I don't know what year it was all but
one gold they got Yeah, I think they got uh runner
-up in volleyball but it was the farthest they've
ever gone in the nation's history but i don't
know how and then uh there was javelin uh i believe
that yeah yeah i mean just like it was crazy
how many like events but it was mostly the the
female athletes like right that's what the whole
documentary was really about was the female athletes
but also like the program in general um even
though there were Males going through that through
at the time and one that unfortunately passed
away. Yeah while in training so Yeah, that was
unfortunate as well. Yeah my question I guess
would be is I would be curious to see where they
were in the last Olympics or like in international
competition leading up to those Olympics and
If they like came out of nowhere why people weren't
questioning that Yeah, I'm sure that once the
country was formed and they were competing in
the Olympics, I'm sure something like that happened.
But they probably weren't at the top at the time.
I'm sure it was like, yeah, the U .S., Russia,
somebody else. Right. Right. With Germany being
split at the time, I'm sure it was. not as great
for both of those countries to have some of their
athletes one place, some of their athletes in
the other place. But yeah, I bet they did come
out of nowhere. We'll have to. Right. Look that
up. And I think you could tell, especially for
the, you know, American, the female American
swimmers, they were obviously very skeptical
because, you know, in the documentary, they were
saying here you have four on the U .S. team at
the time, four of the best female swimmers in
the world on that Olympic team. and they're losing
everything. The only thing they won was a relay
because they were all together, but it's that
red flags in my brain. So that was very interesting
of them coming out of the woodwork and just dominating.
So in the documentary, they had one volleyball
player that they followed. The javelin throw
was another one. Javelin? And then to the ladies.
OK, the lady with the darker hair. She was a
swimmer. She was a swimmer. OK. Yeah. So specifically.
Yeah. Swimmer and whistleblower. Yeah. Yeah.
She was probably the one that was a person that
was one of the most skeptical and had a lot of
questions, you know, as to what was happening
to them and things like that as their body was
changing. So. I'll just go through the volleyball
player and like her experience. So one thing
I remember they highlighted was during one Olympics
or world games or something. She fractured her
foot, correct? Yes. And they were like, play
on it. Yeah. The their doctor, the Germany's
doctor intervened with the like just overseeing
hospital doctor. and said, don't do anything,
leave it. It's fine. And made her play on it.
They overruled the hospital. Yeah, which crazy.
But she ended up later in life just having so
many different surgeries, I think, because her
body, the wear and tear that her body took. And
I can imagine all the benefits that she gained
from muscular standpoint. and force output, man.
And she gained weight too, right? She's going
to have added muscle mass. So now her body's
taking on a lot more force in landing, right?
And those things are already high, but I can
only imagine. So she ended up having some injuries
and stuff, not necessarily any other health effects
that I remember. Do you remember anything for
her? She went through 13 surgeries. I think she
had a lot of back issues. She was missing a kneecap.
And like hormonally, yeah, she had a lot of issues
because at that point she basically was not really,
she didn't have feminine features. She had very
masculine features, but she was obviously still
a woman. I remember her saying her hands grew
very large and she used to, her family maybe
or people made fun of her because her hands were
so big, her face shape changed, her voice changed.
uh it got deeper so physically yeah she had a
ton of issues i i don't know if you saw the way
that she walked but it was she could not move
well um and then hormonally she just there was
she it was a point in no return for her yeah
i think she was the one that mentioned uh she
couldn't wear jewelry anymore because uh people
in society just normal people would just make
fun of her because yeah They thought she was
like transgender or something. You know, they
didn't. Obviously, she had no control of it and
she was still trying to work through everything
that happened to her because she was given those
drugs at, you know, adolescent age, like at the
age of puberty. So once she starts having those
hormones, you're right, like everything's changing
for her and they continue to change because she
took them for years, you know. Yeah, unknowingly.
Yeah, yeah, unknowingly. And so it's just very
tough. to manage your everyday life when people
are just ridiculing you for the way that you
look. Right. And yeah, I can only imagine emotionally
what she went through trying to manage how she
actually felt inside and how people thought she
looked on the outside. Yeah. Yeah. So I think
her and then the javelin thrower were the two
that had the probably worst. two of the worst
outcomes, at least the ones that they interviewed
from a physical and hormonal perspective. Right,
right. Andreas was was his name originally. Her
name was Heidi at the time, right, when she was
in there, Javelin Thor. But yeah, just like so
far on the spectrum of things that happened to
her that the changes that happened in her body
because of those those hormones and those drugs
just it was like irreversible for her and so
she became Andreas and went through the change
from a woman to a man so yeah and then had to
deal with all that stuff as well you should definitely
check out the documentary to see this stuff that
we're talking about. But it's just incredible.
I think the people who made it through, I mean,
so far, we're just mentioning two out of the,
what, thousands of kids that went through this.
But like how strong they have to be as people,
you know, like through that situation and every
day afterwards. to carry the physical burdens,
carry the emotional burdens that they have, the
scars they may have mentally. But yeah, it's
incredible. So yeah, just the hormone change
was just too much for her at that point. And
so now, Andreas. And then there was... The swimmer,
what was her name? The dark -haired swimmer,
I forget. It was sort of an R. I can't remember
what it was though. Yeah, she luckily did not
have a ton of physical issues. And I believe
she got out of it rather early. She didn't take
them for as long because she was one of the whistleblowers
that told her parents of like, these are all
the issues I'm having. I don't know what's going
on. And they took her to an outside OBGYN or
gynecologist who said, You need to stop swimming
now or you're gonna have irreversible damage
to your entire body all that stuff which Unknowingly,
I don't think obviously it was not the swimming.
It was the supplement. It was the the drugs but
so she was pulled out and then I think her mom
found out what was going on and went to the club
and talked to you know yelled at the coaches
and the director and all of that and While I
do believe she had a couple miscarriages. She
was able to eventually have children but the
Obviously the mental load of all of that happening
and kind of being taken advantage of and all
of those things at a young age but also kind
of the the mental battle you have to go through
of because she and her mom Reprimanded the club
and left all of her legacy was kind of quote
unquote tarnished. Obviously, the drugs play
a part in that as well. But imagine that, you
know, being one of a standout on your sport team
before even having those things done to you.
And, you know, having many, many records, you
know, just being a big name in the club and essentially
being blacklisted because of calling something
out that was morally Corrupt and wrong that somebody
did to you. I just that I think in and of itself
mentally and emotionally for a child For 15 year
olds is crazy. Um, but then to have to kind of
like carry that and work through that your entire
life on top of all of the other things is A testament,
I think like you said to their strength as you
know, just human beings Yeah, I agree. It's it's
crazy that she even In the documentary, she was
able to go back into her old club, but they hadn't
moved her picture and maybe one of her friends
pictures that was also not there anymore. But
yeah, just, you know, at the time, even when
she got out and everything was still going on,
you know, before everything stopped, before the
wall came down and, you know, like all the the
doping in East Germany dissolved. Can you imagine
her old friend group and stuff? I mean, she's
probably ostracized by a lot of people. uh right
community because some of it there were some
athletes later on they were talking about um
that were kind of like not they didn't really
see a huge issue with it you know they kind of
like brushed it under the rug of like we were
the best olympic team east germany has ever had
blah blah blah blah and kind of like they were
just supplements and things like that so that
was also very dangerous of like the buy -in to
that as well Yeah, it was like a belief that
it was all their hard work that got them to that
point. Yeah, I mean, there are people like that
that exist, too. So. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, just
just crazy to see that. But it definitely got
my wheels turning of just the the supplement
industry, all of these. Just all of substances
that are available to athletes, like I said,
in some arenas where these performance enhancing
drugs are pretty common. um and just like the
mass like unregulation of them is crazy so it
just again opened my eyes to looking at it from
like from a young athlete's perspective of just
such night negativity and not understanding what
these things are what they could be exposed to
and what the signs and symptoms are if maybe
they are exposed to something like that whether
they know it or not Shows the importance of the
third party testing for sure. Yeah, absolutely
And also testing and not taking random supplements
from anybody Regardless of your if they're your
coach or not Yeah, you're not taking supplements
that that aren't yours right that you have purchased
or whatever yourself So yeah, I was just about
to say that so I think that puts light to it
for me what I kind of was reminded of is the
the social pressures that are existing, you know,
in sports when there's, there's expectations
out there. And really just got me thinking a
little bit more. I know we're not necessarily
in the doping aspect, you know, in my setting
in the D two setting, but still this day and
age with athletes with all the social media and
things like that and to feel an expectation,
feel the pressure to be something you know, for
the entertainment of other people, I think sometimes
is maybe not thought of as much by a strength
coach or someone in my position. So I was definitely
a reminder of you have to live with the results
that you get after the buzzer goes off, you know,
or whatever. And just know how that how that
plays into. everyday life and the continuation
of things like that. So there's a lot. Yeah,
a lot of things, you know, and making sure that
you're doing the best that you can in an ethical
way for the athletes that you're working with.
Those are the things that that kind of came to
mind for me. Yeah. After I got over the initial
shock that this thing existed and I had no idea
about it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess it's something
that well, one, we're we obviously don't live.
There so maybe that's one reason why we're not
super Exposed to it. But also, you know, it's
kind of like a tarnish obviously on there on
that legacy of like look how good we are But
we were only this good because we cheated So,
I don't know that it's broadcasted Claire can
I can I bring to light something based on Location
and things that you didn't know about Sure. I
grew up in Muskogee, Oklahoma. It's about 40
minutes away from Tulsa, Oklahoma. In all of
my years growing up and learning about the history
of Oklahoma, not once in school did they teach
us about the Tulsa race riots. Not once. I grew
up 40 minutes away from there. Not once. That's
the travesty is that things even in your area
can get swept under the rug if people don't allow
it to be taught or don't allow it to be in books.
Yeah. Aces Nation is a team of former college
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a demo. Let's go. So, yeah, you should check
out the documentary. I mean, I think it's I think
it's an interesting watch. Maybe it's maybe it's
not your prime time watch, but I mean, you can
find it on YouTube. You could just listen to
it, you know, while you're at work or doing other
things on your computer. So I don't know if it's
streaming. We only found it on YouTube. So yeah,
I doubt it because it was on PBS but yeah, just
just good to look at and listen to and just be
skeptical of things Yeah, I again we talked about
the third -party testing But like you said with
the pressures, I think that's important too of
like, you know Obviously all athletes these days
want to be the best and they don't you know maybe
not all of them but a lot you know are looking
to play in college play professionally um get
to where they can be better than their competition
and finding little ways to edge them out and
I think that's where sometimes they're led astray
and obviously where you can see firsthand in
this documentary that these athletes were not
these athletes but these coaches and doctors
were looking for a quick fix to make them better
and faster and stronger as quickly as possible.
So I would hope that this is a lesson that most
of the time you're not going to find a magic
pill that is going to do that other than hard
work and doing the little things like eating
right, sleeping, recovering, maybe supplementing
or taking things if they fit in your routine.
If you've talked to a dietitian and you know
a doctor and figured out what's going to work
best for you but you know, these quick fixes
online and on social media of this supplement
is jam -packed with XYZ and all this stuff that
is either not good and too high amounts for you,
filled with banned substances that you have no
idea are or, you know, like I think some people
don't understand that caffeine up to a certain
extent is a banned substance in a lot of drug
testing world. So if you have X amount of caffeine
in your system, you can pop negative or positive,
whatever you want to call it, on a drug test.
So I think that's important. Also, like, you
know, if you're too many poppy seeds, whatever,
you could pop positive for opioids, you know?
So there's all these things that could happen.
And I think just these athletes nowadays need
to be so, so, so careful, especially with the
internet and social media. Yeah, I agree. I agree.
I did have that happen to an athlete of Florida
State. The poppy seeds. Mm -hmm. Man, didn't
that happen to Elaine Binnis on Seinfeld? I don't
know, probably. I think so, yeah, now that you
mention it. That's the second thing today, it's
reminding me of Seinfeld. Relax on the lemon
poppy seed muffins, guys. Yeah, don't have five
or twelve. Only too many. Yeah, only have one.
No. Anyway, that's my spiel about supplements.
Thanks for listening everybody. We will catch
you on the next one. See ya.