WEBVTT 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:13.320 The mic is hot and the game is on. You're listening 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:16.219 to News for the Nation podcast by Aces Nation, 00:00:16.539 --> 00:00:19.620 where we talk about nutrition, sports performance, 00:00:19.940 --> 00:00:22.960 the journey of a student athlete, and more. I'm 00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:28.359 Claire. I'm Zach. Time to level up. Welcome back 00:00:28.359 --> 00:00:31.679 sports fans. Today we're going over another documentary 00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:34.560 as it relates to sports. Today we're going over 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:38.200 Doping for Gold. It's a story about the East 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:43.079 German Women's Olympic teams during the 1970s, 00:00:43.100 --> 00:00:46.000 back when the Berlin Wall was still a thing. 00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:48.420 Claire, you've seen pictures of the Berlin Wall? 00:00:49.460 --> 00:00:52.880 Yes. Yeah. Have you seen video of them tearing 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:56.820 it down? Yes. Yeah, because it was in the documentary, 00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:59.280 for sure. I've seen it before, though. I saw 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:03.119 it probably in my history class. Nice. Claire, 00:01:03.259 --> 00:01:07.379 can you name? Any years and locations where the 00:01:07.379 --> 00:01:14.379 Olympics took place? Where were they? Look, I 00:01:14.379 --> 00:01:17.659 don't know where all the 1970s ones were, but 00:01:17.659 --> 00:01:20.579 are you just saying in general in general? Yeah, 00:01:20.579 --> 00:01:24.859 come on. Oh, Beijing. OK, what? Eighteen. Two 00:01:24.859 --> 00:01:27.099 thousand eight or two thousand eight. Oh, sorry. 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:33.700 London 2012. Hey, all right. That's all I got. 00:01:35.219 --> 00:01:37.700 Yeah, I know. I mean, there was the the weird 00:01:37.700 --> 00:01:40.819 covid year one that happened in like 2021. It 00:01:40.819 --> 00:01:44.480 was like off it by a year, you know. Yeah. But 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:47.680 anyway, so we're going to be going over just 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:52.019 to review after we watched it. Yeah, let's just 00:01:52.019 --> 00:01:55.480 jump right into it. So what the story is about 00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:59.379 doping for gold back in the 70s, like maybe the 00:01:59.379 --> 00:02:02.739 late 60s. uh, steroid use became like a really 00:02:02.739 --> 00:02:05.760 popular thing, especially in the, what do they 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:09.099 call it? The Eastern block or like Eastern part 00:02:09.099 --> 00:02:12.259 of the, the nation or the world, um, over in 00:02:12.259 --> 00:02:14.639 Russia and these other countries that were under 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:19.479 Soviet influence. So this is just a recollection 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:25.560 or just a documentary that explains how standardized 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:33.150 and secret it was. Um, kind of a amazing story 00:02:33.150 --> 00:02:35.129 that I've never heard of. I never heard of this 00:02:35.129 --> 00:02:38.990 before until we watched this documentary. So 00:02:38.990 --> 00:02:42.710 it was great. There was your first reaction to 00:02:42.710 --> 00:02:48.030 everything when you saw it. It was pretty eye 00:02:48.030 --> 00:02:51.009 opening and wild. I think most of the time when 00:02:51.009 --> 00:02:54.349 you think about performance enhancing drugs or 00:02:54.349 --> 00:02:57.930 steroid use, you think of somebody voluntarily. 00:02:58.460 --> 00:03:01.419 and knowingly taking those things to enhance 00:03:01.419 --> 00:03:05.759 their performance. But this was interesting because 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:09.659 these young female athletes, what were they? 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:14.400 Middle and high school age athletes were unknowingly 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:20.599 given these basically testosterone supplements 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:26.090 or drugs, a form of synthetic testosterone. unknowingly 00:03:26.090 --> 00:03:29.990 um trusting their coaches and their doctors for 00:03:29.990 --> 00:03:33.090 you know some pretty i don't want to say necessarily 00:03:33.090 --> 00:03:36.330 like sinister but were definitely ulterior motives 00:03:36.330 --> 00:03:40.830 and um it was very sad to see that it ruined 00:03:40.830 --> 00:03:45.009 some of their lives yeah so basically everything 00:03:45.009 --> 00:03:49.539 that happened was uh Athletes like youth athletes, 00:03:49.539 --> 00:03:52.319 these kids were identified at an early age as 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:54.580 being really good in their sports. Right. And 00:03:54.580 --> 00:03:58.599 so then the clubs that were somehow probably 00:03:58.599 --> 00:04:01.080 controlled by the government, I think, would 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:03.360 after they identified them, they would bring 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:07.500 them in to like these sports club training places 00:04:07.500 --> 00:04:09.580 that were basically like feeder systems to the 00:04:09.580 --> 00:04:13.379 Olympic national team. And they would just start. 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:16.980 putting them on this program where doctors were 00:04:16.980 --> 00:04:20.639 involved in giving them these these drugs. I 00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:23.000 think most of it was in pill form until later 00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:26.259 when they started. So they were given these pills 00:04:26.259 --> 00:04:30.620 and parents just outright trusted doctors. I 00:04:30.620 --> 00:04:35.060 mean, pretty much as you should. Right. Are you 00:04:35.060 --> 00:04:37.240 a thing? Yeah. You would hope that you could 00:04:37.240 --> 00:04:41.339 just do that, that someone based on their ethical 00:04:41.339 --> 00:04:45.269 oaths that you could trust them. Right. Yep. 00:04:45.629 --> 00:04:49.750 Sport coaches were in on it too. And then a myriad 00:04:49.750 --> 00:04:52.750 of politicians that were controlling the country 00:04:52.750 --> 00:04:55.589 were definitely in on as well with heavy Soviet 00:04:55.589 --> 00:04:59.449 influence. So East Germany being the side that 00:04:59.449 --> 00:05:02.490 was really heavily influenced by the Soviet Union 00:05:02.490 --> 00:05:06.569 at the time. So anyways, that's that's what it 00:05:06.569 --> 00:05:09.649 was in this documentary kind of explained how 00:05:09.649 --> 00:05:13.329 how they went about it. as far as the officials 00:05:13.329 --> 00:05:18.009 and the people in the nation, coaches, politicians 00:05:18.009 --> 00:05:20.189 and stuff, how they went about administering 00:05:20.189 --> 00:05:24.990 this, keeping records about it, basically almost 00:05:24.990 --> 00:05:28.490 perfecting how they did it, right? Yeah. And 00:05:28.490 --> 00:05:33.610 then the consequences of that on the physical 00:05:33.610 --> 00:05:37.189 consequences and the societal consequences that 00:05:37.189 --> 00:05:40.000 the athletes had to face. because of something 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:42.600 they didn't know was going on. And they they 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:45.500 definitely didn't want to happen to them. Yeah, 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:49.560 exactly. Really fascinating and crazy story. 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:54.420 And definitely saddening for to hear some of 00:05:54.420 --> 00:05:56.959 the athletes continue to talk, you know, about 00:05:56.959 --> 00:05:58.819 where they are now and what they faced during 00:05:58.819 --> 00:06:05.259 that time. So let's kind of go through the beginning 00:06:05.259 --> 00:06:10.240 of it. Like what what was your reaction to how 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:13.259 much protocol was put into play for this, you 00:06:13.259 --> 00:06:16.579 know? Yeah, I mean, there was obviously a lot 00:06:16.579 --> 00:06:21.120 of thought put into how this strategy was going 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:28.300 to play out. I do think in a way, again, they 00:06:28.300 --> 00:06:30.240 were very strategic and they were giving these 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:32.639 things in pill form. They were giving them among 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:35.060 other things. So it wasn't like, here's this 00:06:35.060 --> 00:06:37.899 one pill, take it. They were giving them. other 00:06:37.899 --> 00:06:40.439 things as well. So probably other vitamins and 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:43.920 supplements to kind of shield the, you know, 00:06:44.060 --> 00:06:46.819 maybe suspicion of that they're getting something 00:06:46.819 --> 00:06:49.639 they shouldn't be getting. And even from like 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:51.519 a shot perspective, too, like when you think 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:55.800 about things that promote, again, a vitamin perspective, 00:06:56.139 --> 00:07:00.980 B12 shots are very common. It's, you know, people 00:07:00.980 --> 00:07:04.300 a lot of times prefer to get a B12 injection. 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:08.019 you know, like once a month or every couple of 00:07:08.019 --> 00:07:10.560 weeks versus taking pills every day, whatever 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:14.100 the case might be. So, you know, it's not necessarily 00:07:14.100 --> 00:07:16.399 something that was out of the ordinary. And I 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:21.519 think that the fact that those doctors and coaches 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:23.300 were kind of taking advantage of those young 00:07:23.300 --> 00:07:28.980 athletes is very saddening. But it was fascinating 00:07:28.980 --> 00:07:31.420 to kind of see, especially at that time, like 00:07:31.420 --> 00:07:37.290 how much precision was put into these protocols 00:07:37.290 --> 00:07:41.649 for these athletes of dosage and and maybe There 00:07:41.649 --> 00:07:43.550 could have been a little bit more from a dosage 00:07:43.550 --> 00:07:47.290 perspective Considering how many harmful side 00:07:47.290 --> 00:07:51.310 effects there were But yeah, it was just very 00:07:51.310 --> 00:07:53.730 interesting to see something that probably as 00:07:53.730 --> 00:07:56.029 a dietitian I would put time and consideration 00:07:56.029 --> 00:07:59.709 to into like a supplement protocol So it was 00:07:59.709 --> 00:08:01.889 very interesting. But at the same time it was 00:08:01.889 --> 00:08:05.920 kind of like that dark side of of what you would 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:08.819 want to do from maybe more of like a supplement 00:08:08.819 --> 00:08:12.600 or vitamin protocol. Yeah. You've seen Icarus, 00:08:12.740 --> 00:08:16.339 right? I have. Yeah. So I thought it was interesting 00:08:16.339 --> 00:08:19.360 to compare the two because I've seen Icarus and 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:24.699 definitely this system seemed more precise, as 00:08:24.699 --> 00:08:28.500 you said, than the other one. And also it seems 00:08:28.500 --> 00:08:31.319 like they were they had a better handle on keeping 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:34.480 it under wraps for a longer period of time. Right. 00:08:35.100 --> 00:08:39.159 So I think one of the doctors or someone in the 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:41.460 documentary that was speaking made a joke about 00:08:41.460 --> 00:08:47.120 like, that's how the only reason it was as documented 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:50.379 and specific as it was, was because they were 00:08:50.379 --> 00:08:53.259 Germans doing the work. And that's the reason 00:08:53.259 --> 00:08:56.159 why they wrote everything down and kept everything 00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:59.840 to protocol. So, but yeah, I thought it was. 00:09:02.259 --> 00:09:05.899 Amazing, not necessarily in an ethical way, but 00:09:05.899 --> 00:09:09.399 maybe like in a how well they kept it under the 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:14.159 radar. It's just incredible how they did that. 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:18.840 Yeah, just overall, like fascinating from a weirdly 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:22.200 curious perspective of mine of just like, wow, 00:09:22.220 --> 00:09:24.799 you guys really thought that through and like 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:27.120 didn't want anything to happen. But they also 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:30.679 had no regard for. these these kids, all they 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:34.679 cared about was getting the gold, winning money 00:09:34.679 --> 00:09:39.460 and, you know, like bringing fame to their nation 00:09:39.460 --> 00:09:42.480 for financial gain. And that was another that 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:45.860 was another joke they made was this was a socialist 00:09:45.860 --> 00:09:48.740 country at the time. And ironically, they were 00:09:48.740 --> 00:09:52.039 driven by capitalist goals to get more money 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:56.559 for themselves. You know? Yeah. So that was just 00:09:56.700 --> 00:09:58.820 interesting all around. Like sometimes I just 00:09:58.820 --> 00:10:00.440 can't even wrap my head around like what word 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.899 to use there. But they definitely had everything 00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:08.340 and they kept they kept tweaking the method. 00:10:08.340 --> 00:10:10.720 Right. To make sure that it was working, to make 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:13.440 sure that they didn't get caught. You know, they 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:15.720 have one. They had the one slip up that they 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:21.039 mentioned because it was a coach's misstep. I'm 00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:22.799 sure that coach got fired or something. I don't 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:25.700 know. Who knows what happened to them back then. 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:30.100 But They probably disappeared but yeah they um 00:10:30.100 --> 00:10:33.980 it was interesting of how it evolved and they 00:10:33.980 --> 00:10:36.700 learned when they needed to cycle off of the 00:10:36.700 --> 00:10:40.820 the drugs because there was no in competition 00:10:40.820 --> 00:10:43.659 or there was only in competition testing there 00:10:43.659 --> 00:10:46.620 was no like random testing which if you're an 00:10:46.620 --> 00:10:50.179 athlete now you know that the NCAA or other organ 00:10:50.179 --> 00:10:53.100 like governing bodies of sports will do random 00:10:53.100 --> 00:10:58.250 drug testing now for that reason. Yeah, it was 00:10:58.250 --> 00:11:03.690 crazy for sure. Just wild. Yeah, I do Sorry, 00:11:03.909 --> 00:11:06.389 I was gonna say I do think that these types of 00:11:06.389 --> 00:11:07.730 documentaries and I don't know if you noticed 00:11:07.730 --> 00:11:10.889 this but when I was watching it on YouTube Because 00:11:10.889 --> 00:11:14.149 it was what was it a PBS documentary series something 00:11:14.149 --> 00:11:15.889 like that. I think it was called secrets of the 00:11:15.889 --> 00:11:19.649 dead Yeah, something like that. It was wild to 00:11:19.649 --> 00:11:22.570 me how many other like docu series or videos 00:11:22.570 --> 00:11:26.820 came up about Doping in sports on there and then 00:11:26.820 --> 00:11:28.720 on YouTube But then also when you think about 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:30.600 just how many are out there in general there 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:33.600 are so many out there and it just all of them 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:36.220 kind of beg the question like will this will 00:11:36.220 --> 00:11:39.500 doping and the use of performance enhancing drugs 00:11:39.500 --> 00:11:43.019 and some substances and banned substances ever 00:11:43.019 --> 00:11:49.620 stop in sports I would argue no In an ideal world 00:11:49.620 --> 00:11:53.350 probably but I think it's important these you 00:11:53.350 --> 00:11:55.629 know documentaries and things coming out that 00:11:55.629 --> 00:11:58.269 athletes understand the consequences of taking 00:11:58.269 --> 00:12:01.889 them and while it may give you short -term results 00:12:01.889 --> 00:12:06.009 the stress that you're putting on your musculoskeletal 00:12:06.009 --> 00:12:09.370 system your hormones your endocrine system all 00:12:09.370 --> 00:12:12.789 of these things is going to really wreak havoc 00:12:12.789 --> 00:12:15.350 on your body later on like you could have such 00:12:15.350 --> 00:12:19.080 success in a short amount of time but Mean and 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:21.299 you can see this in like a lot of bodybuilders 00:12:21.299 --> 00:12:23.779 to like bodybuild that the bodybuilding world 00:12:23.779 --> 00:12:28.279 is very runs rampant with performance enhancing 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:31.460 drugs and there are a lot of them that struggle 00:12:31.460 --> 00:12:34.139 with really serious chronic health issues later 00:12:34.139 --> 00:12:37.379 on in life because Because of the use of those 00:12:37.379 --> 00:12:40.899 drugs, but also because what they put their body 00:12:40.899 --> 00:12:48.899 through while on those substances Yeah But let's 00:12:48.899 --> 00:12:54.740 let's Cover the Olympic, I don't know success. 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:59.059 Yeah, they had What they they won quite a bit 00:12:59.059 --> 00:13:01.899 the things that I remember were swimming they 00:13:01.899 --> 00:13:05.559 dominated I don't know what year it was all but 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:13.539 one gold they got Yeah, I think they got uh runner 00:13:13.539 --> 00:13:15.860 -up in volleyball but it was the farthest they've 00:13:15.860 --> 00:13:18.600 ever gone in the nation's history but i don't 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:25.559 know how and then uh there was javelin uh i believe 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:29.000 that yeah yeah i mean just like it was crazy 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:31.879 how many like events but it was mostly the the 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:34.080 female athletes like right that's what the whole 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:36.440 documentary was really about was the female athletes 00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:39.399 but also like the program in general um even 00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:43.029 though there were Males going through that through 00:13:43.029 --> 00:13:46.529 at the time and one that unfortunately passed 00:13:46.529 --> 00:13:51.049 away. Yeah while in training so Yeah, that was 00:13:51.049 --> 00:13:54.950 unfortunate as well. Yeah my question I guess 00:13:54.950 --> 00:13:57.970 would be is I would be curious to see where they 00:13:57.970 --> 00:14:00.970 were in the last Olympics or like in international 00:14:00.970 --> 00:14:04.110 competition leading up to those Olympics and 00:14:04.110 --> 00:14:07.309 If they like came out of nowhere why people weren't 00:14:07.309 --> 00:14:10.360 questioning that Yeah, I'm sure that once the 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:14.159 country was formed and they were competing in 00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:16.279 the Olympics, I'm sure something like that happened. 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.820 But they probably weren't at the top at the time. 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:25.379 I'm sure it was like, yeah, the U .S., Russia, 00:14:26.100 --> 00:14:28.840 somebody else. Right. Right. With Germany being 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:32.179 split at the time, I'm sure it was. not as great 00:14:32.179 --> 00:14:34.299 for both of those countries to have some of their 00:14:34.299 --> 00:14:36.019 athletes one place, some of their athletes in 00:14:36.019 --> 00:14:37.960 the other place. But yeah, I bet they did come 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:41.399 out of nowhere. We'll have to. Right. Look that 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:43.419 up. And I think you could tell, especially for 00:14:43.419 --> 00:14:46.019 the, you know, American, the female American 00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:48.059 swimmers, they were obviously very skeptical 00:14:48.059 --> 00:14:51.860 because, you know, in the documentary, they were 00:14:51.860 --> 00:14:54.440 saying here you have four on the U .S. team at 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:57.620 the time, four of the best female swimmers in 00:14:57.620 --> 00:15:01.070 the world on that Olympic team. and they're losing 00:15:01.070 --> 00:15:03.850 everything. The only thing they won was a relay 00:15:03.850 --> 00:15:07.570 because they were all together, but it's that 00:15:07.570 --> 00:15:12.169 red flags in my brain. So that was very interesting 00:15:12.169 --> 00:15:17.070 of them coming out of the woodwork and just dominating. 00:15:20.230 --> 00:15:23.169 So in the documentary, they had one volleyball 00:15:23.169 --> 00:15:27.409 player that they followed. The javelin throw 00:15:27.409 --> 00:15:33.299 was another one. Javelin? And then to the ladies. 00:15:34.059 --> 00:15:35.779 OK, the lady with the darker hair. She was a 00:15:35.779 --> 00:15:38.860 swimmer. She was a swimmer. OK. Yeah. So specifically. 00:15:39.019 --> 00:15:42.759 Yeah. Swimmer and whistleblower. Yeah. Yeah. 00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:45.259 She was probably the one that was a person that 00:15:45.259 --> 00:15:49.259 was one of the most skeptical and had a lot of 00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:52.100 questions, you know, as to what was happening 00:15:52.100 --> 00:15:54.500 to them and things like that as their body was 00:15:54.500 --> 00:15:58.940 changing. So. I'll just go through the volleyball 00:15:58.940 --> 00:16:01.700 player and like her experience. So one thing 00:16:01.700 --> 00:16:05.980 I remember they highlighted was during one Olympics 00:16:05.980 --> 00:16:10.940 or world games or something. She fractured her 00:16:10.940 --> 00:16:14.779 foot, correct? Yes. And they were like, play 00:16:14.779 --> 00:16:20.559 on it. Yeah. The their doctor, the Germany's 00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:24.419 doctor intervened with the like just overseeing 00:16:24.419 --> 00:16:28.139 hospital doctor. and said, don't do anything, 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:31.519 leave it. It's fine. And made her play on it. 00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:35.500 They overruled the hospital. Yeah, which crazy. 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:42.019 But she ended up later in life just having so 00:16:42.019 --> 00:16:44.080 many different surgeries, I think, because her 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:46.519 body, the wear and tear that her body took. And 00:16:46.519 --> 00:16:52.539 I can imagine all the benefits that she gained 00:16:52.539 --> 00:16:56.649 from muscular standpoint. and force output, man. 00:16:56.850 --> 00:16:58.929 And she gained weight too, right? She's going 00:16:58.929 --> 00:17:01.389 to have added muscle mass. So now her body's 00:17:01.389 --> 00:17:04.269 taking on a lot more force in landing, right? 00:17:04.569 --> 00:17:07.809 And those things are already high, but I can 00:17:07.809 --> 00:17:10.410 only imagine. So she ended up having some injuries 00:17:10.410 --> 00:17:13.210 and stuff, not necessarily any other health effects 00:17:13.210 --> 00:17:15.170 that I remember. Do you remember anything for 00:17:15.170 --> 00:17:20.009 her? She went through 13 surgeries. I think she 00:17:20.009 --> 00:17:22.849 had a lot of back issues. She was missing a kneecap. 00:17:23.770 --> 00:17:27.089 And like hormonally, yeah, she had a lot of issues 00:17:27.089 --> 00:17:32.650 because at that point she basically was not really, 00:17:32.950 --> 00:17:35.309 she didn't have feminine features. She had very 00:17:35.309 --> 00:17:38.509 masculine features, but she was obviously still 00:17:38.509 --> 00:17:40.789 a woman. I remember her saying her hands grew 00:17:40.789 --> 00:17:45.970 very large and she used to, her family maybe 00:17:45.970 --> 00:17:48.029 or people made fun of her because her hands were 00:17:48.029 --> 00:17:52.730 so big, her face shape changed, her voice changed. 00:17:52.910 --> 00:17:56.829 uh it got deeper so physically yeah she had a 00:17:56.829 --> 00:17:59.269 ton of issues i i don't know if you saw the way 00:17:59.269 --> 00:18:02.430 that she walked but it was she could not move 00:18:02.430 --> 00:18:07.210 well um and then hormonally she just there was 00:18:07.210 --> 00:18:10.849 she it was a point in no return for her yeah 00:18:10.849 --> 00:18:13.809 i think she was the one that mentioned uh she 00:18:13.809 --> 00:18:17.410 couldn't wear jewelry anymore because uh people 00:18:17.410 --> 00:18:19.750 in society just normal people would just make 00:18:19.750 --> 00:18:22.960 fun of her because yeah They thought she was 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.359 like transgender or something. You know, they 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:29.400 didn't. Obviously, she had no control of it and 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:31.240 she was still trying to work through everything 00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:32.940 that happened to her because she was given those 00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:36.240 drugs at, you know, adolescent age, like at the 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.400 age of puberty. So once she starts having those 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:40.240 hormones, you're right, like everything's changing 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:42.140 for her and they continue to change because she 00:18:42.140 --> 00:18:45.039 took them for years, you know. Yeah, unknowingly. 00:18:45.539 --> 00:18:48.119 Yeah, yeah, unknowingly. And so it's just very 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:52.019 tough. to manage your everyday life when people 00:18:52.019 --> 00:18:55.480 are just ridiculing you for the way that you 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:59.460 look. Right. And yeah, I can only imagine emotionally 00:18:59.460 --> 00:19:02.480 what she went through trying to manage how she 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:05.000 actually felt inside and how people thought she 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:09.839 looked on the outside. Yeah. Yeah. So I think 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:13.460 her and then the javelin thrower were the two 00:19:13.460 --> 00:19:17.029 that had the probably worst. two of the worst 00:19:17.029 --> 00:19:19.309 outcomes, at least the ones that they interviewed 00:19:19.309 --> 00:19:24.089 from a physical and hormonal perspective. Right, 00:19:24.170 --> 00:19:36.329 right. Andreas was was his name originally. Her 00:19:36.329 --> 00:19:39.349 name was Heidi at the time, right, when she was 00:19:39.349 --> 00:19:43.710 in there, Javelin Thor. But yeah, just like so 00:19:43.710 --> 00:19:48.839 far on the spectrum of things that happened to 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:51.019 her that the changes that happened in her body 00:19:51.019 --> 00:19:55.839 because of those those hormones and those drugs 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:59.640 just it was like irreversible for her and so 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:03.279 she became Andreas and went through the change 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:07.460 from a woman to a man so yeah and then had to 00:20:07.460 --> 00:20:10.880 deal with all that stuff as well you should definitely 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:14.390 check out the documentary to see this stuff that 00:20:14.390 --> 00:20:17.289 we're talking about. But it's just incredible. 00:20:17.630 --> 00:20:21.690 I think the people who made it through, I mean, 00:20:21.789 --> 00:20:24.170 so far, we're just mentioning two out of the, 00:20:24.170 --> 00:20:28.130 what, thousands of kids that went through this. 00:20:29.089 --> 00:20:33.509 But like how strong they have to be as people, 00:20:33.509 --> 00:20:38.069 you know, like through that situation and every 00:20:38.069 --> 00:20:42.299 day afterwards. to carry the physical burdens, 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:46.000 carry the emotional burdens that they have, the 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:50.440 scars they may have mentally. But yeah, it's 00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:54.539 incredible. So yeah, just the hormone change 00:20:54.539 --> 00:20:58.259 was just too much for her at that point. And 00:20:58.259 --> 00:21:03.420 so now, Andreas. And then there was... The swimmer, 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:05.859 what was her name? The dark -haired swimmer, 00:21:05.859 --> 00:21:09.990 I forget. It was sort of an R. I can't remember 00:21:09.990 --> 00:21:12.930 what it was though. Yeah, she luckily did not 00:21:12.930 --> 00:21:16.910 have a ton of physical issues. And I believe 00:21:16.910 --> 00:21:20.450 she got out of it rather early. She didn't take 00:21:20.450 --> 00:21:24.009 them for as long because she was one of the whistleblowers 00:21:24.009 --> 00:21:26.430 that told her parents of like, these are all 00:21:26.430 --> 00:21:28.309 the issues I'm having. I don't know what's going 00:21:28.309 --> 00:21:32.470 on. And they took her to an outside OBGYN or 00:21:32.470 --> 00:21:36.490 gynecologist who said, You need to stop swimming 00:21:36.490 --> 00:21:39.890 now or you're gonna have irreversible damage 00:21:39.890 --> 00:21:43.390 to your entire body all that stuff which Unknowingly, 00:21:43.630 --> 00:21:45.430 I don't think obviously it was not the swimming. 00:21:45.430 --> 00:21:49.569 It was the supplement. It was the the drugs but 00:21:49.569 --> 00:21:51.609 so she was pulled out and then I think her mom 00:21:51.609 --> 00:21:54.710 found out what was going on and went to the club 00:21:54.710 --> 00:21:57.589 and talked to you know yelled at the coaches 00:21:57.589 --> 00:22:01.009 and the director and all of that and While I 00:22:01.009 --> 00:22:03.650 do believe she had a couple miscarriages. She 00:22:03.650 --> 00:22:07.589 was able to eventually have children but the 00:22:07.589 --> 00:22:10.750 Obviously the mental load of all of that happening 00:22:10.750 --> 00:22:13.329 and kind of being taken advantage of and all 00:22:13.329 --> 00:22:15.369 of those things at a young age but also kind 00:22:15.369 --> 00:22:17.930 of the the mental battle you have to go through 00:22:17.930 --> 00:22:23.910 of because she and her mom Reprimanded the club 00:22:23.910 --> 00:22:27.859 and left all of her legacy was kind of quote 00:22:27.859 --> 00:22:30.880 unquote tarnished. Obviously, the drugs play 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.599 a part in that as well. But imagine that, you 00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:38.440 know, being one of a standout on your sport team 00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:43.099 before even having those things done to you. 00:22:43.960 --> 00:22:49.259 And, you know, having many, many records, you 00:22:49.259 --> 00:22:52.000 know, just being a big name in the club and essentially 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:55.079 being blacklisted because of calling something 00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:58.500 out that was morally Corrupt and wrong that somebody 00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:02.019 did to you. I just that I think in and of itself 00:23:02.019 --> 00:23:06.400 mentally and emotionally for a child For 15 year 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:09.559 olds is crazy. Um, but then to have to kind of 00:23:09.559 --> 00:23:11.440 like carry that and work through that your entire 00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:15.599 life on top of all of the other things is A testament, 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:18.460 I think like you said to their strength as you 00:23:18.460 --> 00:23:22.779 know, just human beings Yeah, I agree. It's it's 00:23:22.779 --> 00:23:25.299 crazy that she even In the documentary, she was 00:23:25.299 --> 00:23:28.000 able to go back into her old club, but they hadn't 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:30.460 moved her picture and maybe one of her friends 00:23:30.460 --> 00:23:32.680 pictures that was also not there anymore. But 00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:35.900 yeah, just, you know, at the time, even when 00:23:35.900 --> 00:23:38.359 she got out and everything was still going on, 00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:41.720 you know, before everything stopped, before the 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:45.619 wall came down and, you know, like all the the 00:23:45.619 --> 00:23:48.660 doping in East Germany dissolved. Can you imagine 00:23:48.660 --> 00:23:51.279 her old friend group and stuff? I mean, she's 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:54.420 probably ostracized by a lot of people. uh right 00:23:54.420 --> 00:23:57.400 community because some of it there were some 00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:00.279 athletes later on they were talking about um 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:03.339 that were kind of like not they didn't really 00:24:03.339 --> 00:24:05.440 see a huge issue with it you know they kind of 00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:07.779 like brushed it under the rug of like we were 00:24:07.779 --> 00:24:11.559 the best olympic team east germany has ever had 00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:14.099 blah blah blah blah and kind of like they were 00:24:14.099 --> 00:24:16.500 just supplements and things like that so that 00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:19.240 was also very dangerous of like the buy -in to 00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:22.660 that as well Yeah, it was like a belief that 00:24:22.660 --> 00:24:25.299 it was all their hard work that got them to that 00:24:25.299 --> 00:24:27.440 point. Yeah, I mean, there are people like that 00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:31.240 that exist, too. So. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, just 00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:32.900 just crazy to see that. But it definitely got 00:24:32.900 --> 00:24:36.380 my wheels turning of just the the supplement 00:24:36.380 --> 00:24:41.740 industry, all of these. Just all of substances 00:24:41.740 --> 00:24:45.279 that are available to athletes, like I said, 00:24:45.339 --> 00:24:48.420 in some arenas where these performance enhancing 00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:53.140 drugs are pretty common. um and just like the 00:24:53.140 --> 00:24:57.599 mass like unregulation of them is crazy so it 00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:01.200 just again opened my eyes to looking at it from 00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:04.240 like from a young athlete's perspective of just 00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:07.720 such night negativity and not understanding what 00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:10.519 these things are what they could be exposed to 00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:14.119 and what the signs and symptoms are if maybe 00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:16.019 they are exposed to something like that whether 00:25:16.019 --> 00:25:19.140 they know it or not Shows the importance of the 00:25:19.140 --> 00:25:22.140 third party testing for sure. Yeah, absolutely 00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:25.799 And also testing and not taking random supplements 00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:29.240 from anybody Regardless of your if they're your 00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:31.619 coach or not Yeah, you're not taking supplements 00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:34.859 that that aren't yours right that you have purchased 00:25:34.859 --> 00:25:37.359 or whatever yourself So yeah, I was just about 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:40.339 to say that so I think that puts light to it 00:25:40.339 --> 00:25:45.960 for me what I kind of was reminded of is the 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:50.380 the social pressures that are existing, you know, 00:25:50.420 --> 00:25:53.180 in sports when there's, there's expectations 00:25:53.180 --> 00:25:56.480 out there. And really just got me thinking a 00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:58.819 little bit more. I know we're not necessarily 00:25:58.819 --> 00:26:02.720 in the doping aspect, you know, in my setting 00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:07.160 in the D two setting, but still this day and 00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:09.240 age with athletes with all the social media and 00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:13.140 things like that and to feel an expectation, 00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:18.380 feel the pressure to be something you know, for 00:26:18.380 --> 00:26:22.240 the entertainment of other people, I think sometimes 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:27.059 is maybe not thought of as much by a strength 00:26:27.059 --> 00:26:29.819 coach or someone in my position. So I was definitely 00:26:29.819 --> 00:26:34.119 a reminder of you have to live with the results 00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:39.539 that you get after the buzzer goes off, you know, 00:26:39.539 --> 00:26:43.039 or whatever. And just know how that how that 00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:46.660 plays into. everyday life and the continuation 00:26:46.660 --> 00:26:49.220 of things like that. So there's a lot. Yeah, 00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:51.759 a lot of things, you know, and making sure that 00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:54.200 you're doing the best that you can in an ethical 00:26:54.200 --> 00:26:56.460 way for the athletes that you're working with. 00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:59.099 Those are the things that that kind of came to 00:26:59.099 --> 00:27:02.839 mind for me. Yeah. After I got over the initial 00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:05.539 shock that this thing existed and I had no idea 00:27:05.539 --> 00:27:08.920 about it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess it's something 00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:12.339 that well, one, we're we obviously don't live. 00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:16.039 There so maybe that's one reason why we're not 00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:19.759 super Exposed to it. But also, you know, it's 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:22.799 kind of like a tarnish obviously on there on 00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:25.059 that legacy of like look how good we are But 00:27:25.059 --> 00:27:29.619 we were only this good because we cheated So, 00:27:29.619 --> 00:27:35.019 I don't know that it's broadcasted Claire can 00:27:35.019 --> 00:27:40.500 I can I bring to light something based on Location 00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:44.519 and things that you didn't know about Sure. I 00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:47.480 grew up in Muskogee, Oklahoma. It's about 40 00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:50.980 minutes away from Tulsa, Oklahoma. In all of 00:27:50.980 --> 00:27:53.500 my years growing up and learning about the history 00:27:53.500 --> 00:27:56.619 of Oklahoma, not once in school did they teach 00:27:56.619 --> 00:28:01.319 us about the Tulsa race riots. Not once. I grew 00:28:01.319 --> 00:28:07.319 up 40 minutes away from there. Not once. That's 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:11.559 the travesty is that things even in your area 00:28:12.009 --> 00:28:15.470 can get swept under the rug if people don't allow 00:28:15.470 --> 00:28:17.970 it to be taught or don't allow it to be in books. 00:28:19.829 --> 00:28:22.390 Yeah. Aces Nation is a team of former college 00:28:22.390 --> 00:28:24.710 athletes and coaches on a mission to improve 00:28:24.710 --> 00:28:27.609 the sports culture experience and change today's 00:28:27.609 --> 00:28:30.710 expectations. We do this by helping every player 00:28:30.710 --> 00:28:33.589 maximize their athletic potential with professional 00:28:33.589 --> 00:28:36.589 programs to improve strength, speed, nutrition, 00:28:36.890 --> 00:28:39.630 and mental toughness and by using sports to create 00:28:39.630 --> 00:28:42.240 a direct pathway to college. with a guaranteed 00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:45.319 college scholarship program for all student athletes. 00:28:45.779 --> 00:28:48.720 Visit ACESNation .org to learn more and schedule 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.119 a demo. Let's go. So, yeah, you should check 00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:53.640 out the documentary. I mean, I think it's I think 00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:58.220 it's an interesting watch. Maybe it's maybe it's 00:28:58.220 --> 00:29:00.500 not your prime time watch, but I mean, you can 00:29:00.500 --> 00:29:02.160 find it on YouTube. You could just listen to 00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:04.460 it, you know, while you're at work or doing other 00:29:04.460 --> 00:29:08.019 things on your computer. So I don't know if it's 00:29:08.019 --> 00:29:12.079 streaming. We only found it on YouTube. So yeah, 00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:15.500 I doubt it because it was on PBS but yeah, just 00:29:15.500 --> 00:29:19.880 just good to look at and listen to and just be 00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:25.160 skeptical of things Yeah, I again we talked about 00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:29.079 the third -party testing But like you said with 00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:31.500 the pressures, I think that's important too of 00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:35.059 like, you know Obviously all athletes these days 00:29:35.059 --> 00:29:38.569 want to be the best and they don't you know maybe 00:29:38.569 --> 00:29:40.910 not all of them but a lot you know are looking 00:29:40.910 --> 00:29:44.470 to play in college play professionally um get 00:29:44.470 --> 00:29:48.230 to where they can be better than their competition 00:29:48.230 --> 00:29:51.089 and finding little ways to edge them out and 00:29:51.089 --> 00:29:55.309 I think that's where sometimes they're led astray 00:29:55.309 --> 00:29:58.549 and obviously where you can see firsthand in 00:29:58.549 --> 00:30:01.130 this documentary that these athletes were not 00:30:01.130 --> 00:30:03.109 these athletes but these coaches and doctors 00:30:03.109 --> 00:30:05.920 were looking for a quick fix to make them better 00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:09.099 and faster and stronger as quickly as possible. 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:13.400 So I would hope that this is a lesson that most 00:30:13.400 --> 00:30:15.859 of the time you're not going to find a magic 00:30:15.859 --> 00:30:18.779 pill that is going to do that other than hard 00:30:18.779 --> 00:30:21.539 work and doing the little things like eating 00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:25.259 right, sleeping, recovering, maybe supplementing 00:30:25.259 --> 00:30:28.559 or taking things if they fit in your routine. 00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:31.019 If you've talked to a dietitian and you know 00:30:31.019 --> 00:30:33.359 a doctor and figured out what's going to work 00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:36.250 best for you but you know, these quick fixes 00:30:36.250 --> 00:30:39.089 online and on social media of this supplement 00:30:39.089 --> 00:30:44.470 is jam -packed with XYZ and all this stuff that 00:30:44.470 --> 00:30:50.069 is either not good and too high amounts for you, 00:30:50.329 --> 00:30:52.190 filled with banned substances that you have no 00:30:52.190 --> 00:30:56.289 idea are or, you know, like I think some people 00:30:56.289 --> 00:30:58.230 don't understand that caffeine up to a certain 00:30:58.230 --> 00:31:02.470 extent is a banned substance in a lot of drug 00:31:02.470 --> 00:31:05.789 testing world. So if you have X amount of caffeine 00:31:05.789 --> 00:31:09.690 in your system, you can pop negative or positive, 00:31:09.690 --> 00:31:12.009 whatever you want to call it, on a drug test. 00:31:12.569 --> 00:31:15.650 So I think that's important. Also, like, you 00:31:15.650 --> 00:31:18.470 know, if you're too many poppy seeds, whatever, 00:31:18.569 --> 00:31:20.630 you could pop positive for opioids, you know? 00:31:20.630 --> 00:31:23.130 So there's all these things that could happen. 00:31:23.430 --> 00:31:26.730 And I think just these athletes nowadays need 00:31:26.730 --> 00:31:30.670 to be so, so, so careful, especially with the 00:31:30.670 --> 00:31:34.109 internet and social media. Yeah, I agree. I agree. 00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:38.400 I did have that happen to an athlete of Florida 00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:41.640 State. The poppy seeds. Mm -hmm. Man, didn't 00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:45.539 that happen to Elaine Binnis on Seinfeld? I don't 00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:48.059 know, probably. I think so, yeah, now that you 00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:50.339 mention it. That's the second thing today, it's 00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:52.700 reminding me of Seinfeld. Relax on the lemon 00:31:52.700 --> 00:31:56.519 poppy seed muffins, guys. Yeah, don't have five 00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:59.839 or twelve. Only too many. Yeah, only have one. 00:32:00.940 --> 00:32:04.990 No. Anyway, that's my spiel about supplements. 00:32:05.910 --> 00:32:07.569 Thanks for listening everybody. We will catch 00:32:07.569 --> 00:32:09.990 you on the next one. See ya.