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You've got the Clovis being the fluted points,

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Folsom being the deeper fluted points,

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and then Plano being these unfluted points.

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So like the like Jethro Tall without Ian Anderson.

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Basically.

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The listener can't see that Ken just checked his notes

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for that joke.

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I'm just gonna, yeah, I didn't want that.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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The New Brunswick Archeology Podcast featuring your hosts,

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Gabe Reineck and Ken Bleuk.

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Well, welcome back to the New Brunswick Archeology

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podcast.

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I'm Gabe Reineck, joining you from New Hampshire today.

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And I'm joined as always by Ken Bleuk,

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who is in Left Bridge, Alberta.

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How are you Ken?

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Not too bad.

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We're international tonight.

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We are international tonight.

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And in fact, that brings me to our first order

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of housekeeping business, which is that we still do not

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have a new name for this podcast, which means that the prize

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has rolled over.

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And in fact, much like Mega Millions,

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we've upped the ante on this.

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So I'm joining you.

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It's an iterative jackpot.

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It is an iterative jackpot.

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Are we allowed to say that and still maintain

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the non-explicit rating on this prize?

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I'm not sure.

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I'm not sure.

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Well, anyway, the iterative jackpot this week

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is that because I'm joining you from Manchester, New Hampshire,

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which listeners will have to regard as a bit of foreshadowing

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for next week when we talk about the Neville site

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in the Atlantic Slope tradition, I'm

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about a kilometer or a kilometer and a half maybe

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from where the bridge of Buttman that blasted out

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the Neville site now sits.

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And so the Neville site is one thing

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that Manchester, New Hampshire is known for.

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But Ken, do you know what food was

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invented in Manchester, New Hampshire?

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I don't.

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The chicken tender.

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No way.

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Manchester, New Hampshire, the Puritan Backroom,

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which is a well-regarded and I have to say quite excellent

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restaurant, nice cream parlor here in New Hampshire,

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invented the chicken tender.

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And so if we.

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Just a sec.

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Did you say the Puritan Backroom?

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That's what it's called.

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Speaking of the explicit rating, we've just sacrificed.

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What goes on in a Puritan Backroom?

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Well, it's essentially it's a large family restaurant

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run by a Greek family for a very long time.

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So it's sort of a if a Greek diner went and became very

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similar to a friendlies.

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I don't know if you ever were a friendlies in New England.

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Yeah.

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But it's a little it went a little bit more corporate.

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Like smitties or denies for Canadian listeners.

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Yeah, yeah.

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But but with a huge lofted ceiling and in a takeout window.

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And the food is pretty good, actually.

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And the the tendies are delicious.

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But so anyway, if someone comes up with the winning name

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this week, what we're going to offer is that you get the

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we're calling this the New England archaeology tour package.

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And the way this works, you get to join me, Ken will fly in

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for this.

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And we will get the complete set of chicken tenders.

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That means that you'll get the the spicy, the traditional

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and the ranch at the Puritan Backroom.

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Subsequent to that, we will go to where the bridge

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abutment sits on top of the Neville site.

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We will climb over the no trespassing sign.

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I'm sure I've never done this before.

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We will dodge the heroin needles that now litter the site.

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And then we will observe the site.

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But we'll do this for the full New England experience

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with it while clutching extra large

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Dunkin Donuts iced coffees.

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So this is this is the this is what we've got.

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So send those in as always.

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And Ken, what's our email address again?

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New Brunswick Archaeology at gmail.com.

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It's still fantastic that that wasn't taken.

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Yeah, it is.

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It is very surprising.

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So we'll call this one maybe the an evening on the Merrimack.

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Oh, that's a great name.

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Yeah, fantastic.

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Yeah, Merrimack River.

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It's it's just as lovely as it sounds, just as merry.

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And it's really everything you could possibly

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desire in our tourism down here in southern New England.

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We're sponsored this week, as always,

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by the Association of Professional Archaeologists

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of New Brunswick.

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They can be visited at APNB.ca.

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And I was actually talking to Trevor Dowd this morning.

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And president of the APNB.

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He is.

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He's not just a handsome man.

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He's a powerful man.

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And and Trevor, he said he gave, you know,

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that I appreciate the read you gave last time.

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But I'm concerned that you just don't have that that Canadian

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voice, that Canadian charisma.

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So maybe you can do it.

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And I said, no, no, no one.

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I take a backseat to absolutely no one in my love for the APNB.

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So what I'm going to do instead is I'm going to just insert

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an aspirated yes at some point in a subsequent podcast.

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And that aspirated yes will be fully paid for by the APNB

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and all of our listeners will know that.

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Ken and I realized that we made a slight error

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in the last podcast.

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And so this segment we're calling Hakuna Erata.

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And this will be a recurring segment, too.

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We're a fact based podcast.

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And and we're we're not above, you know,

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calling out ourselves for when we when we mix up the facts.

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That's exactly right.

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And so we were my understanding is several G's off in a in a

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factoid we shared with the listeners.

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Yes, several G's, incidentally, being the amount it costs

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to get a sponsorship on this podcast.

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13 G's, actually.

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So Canada in the last podcast, we're talking about federal

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heritage legislation.

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And I misspoke and said that Canada was the only G20 nation

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without federal heritage legislation.

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We are actually the only G we are the G7, the only G7 nation

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without federal heritage legislation.

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So we're 13 G's off.

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And I'm not sure the composition of those 13 G's.

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But that's that's, yeah, that's kind of the target for our

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fundraising appeal right now, isn't it?

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I think that's exactly the target.

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I think with 13 G's, we would we would we would have matching

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fleece vests at at this year's CA meeting.

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If one can only hope.

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Yeah, to say nothing if the lapel pins that we would

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undoubtedly have.

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What we're going to talk about this fortnight is paleo Indians.

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So these are the indigenous inhabitants of New Brunswick

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between about 13,000 and 9,000 years ago.

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And I think maybe a good place to start with our discussion is

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just with the term paleo Indian, which is going to sit

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gradingly on the listeners years, and it's going to sit

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gradingly with us when we say it.

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And so what I'm going to do is begin by saying why I still use

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the term paleo Indian and then Ken can chime in with why he

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does or does not.

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And so the reason that I'm still using this term is that

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even though the the second half of that word is one that we

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don't use describe indigenous people anymore because it

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refers to an error on the part of Columbus.

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There's this challenge in that that term achieved real

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acceptance on a continental scale.

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And so that term refers to collectively the first indigenous

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inhabitants of the Americas.

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And so you can think, well, there would be all sorts of really

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good alternative terms for that.

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But the problem is the terms like paleo and paleo American

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have both been kind of co-opted by these really like fringy

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groups that are very into this idea that Europeans came over

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the Atlantic and colonized North America or other much

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actually more conspiratorial ideas than that about the first

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people in North America.

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And so as a result, paleo Indian remains the kind of widespread

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term across North America.

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And we hope that despite it obviously seeming dated that

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what it does is it emphasizes continuity across the whole

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continent.

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And so that all these different places are really linked by

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this very impressive cultural phenomenon that is ancestral to

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the subsequent indigenous groups in North America.

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What is your take on all of this, Ken?

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So basically the way you describe it is sort of my

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thinking as well.

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And I think there's a couple things too.

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So first of all, to the listener, like we have the word

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spelled out in front of us, but when we talk about paleo Indians

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in North America, it's capital P-A-L-A-E-O-I-N-D-I-A-N-S.

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And so there's a couple things there.

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First is that instead of making it paleo with a dash Indian,

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you avoid the connotation of capitalizing Indian and kind

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of making it the root.

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It is old Indians.

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You make it kind of a new word, paleo Indian, which is all

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pushed together.

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I use the A-E as opposed to just E-O for paleo,

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because A-E by convention is a more North American reference.

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Paleo P-A-L-E-O sort of connotes paleolithic, so old world,

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so Europe and Asia and African subcontinents.

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And so basically all the same reasons for you as well,

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continuity with other regions, particularly in the Northeast

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and the Far Northeast where we work,

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it's important to kind of use cohesive terminology,

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because what we're viewing during the paleo Indian period

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that we'll be talking about today is one or many migrations

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of people making their way sort of into the continent

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and then across the continent very rapidly

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as part of the first settlers of this new continent.

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And I think that that terminology

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unites the first people of North America under one rubric,

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basically.

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And also, I think in modern parlance

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as we talked about in the first episode,

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it sort of encompasses both the first people,

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like the pre-Clovis, and then what

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we'll be talking about today more Clovis

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and other descendants of later paleo.

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Absolutely.

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And I think the other thing that we should mention,

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except I'm in total agreement with you on all of that,

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is that there are, in fact, localized indigenous terms

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for paleo Indian people.

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So for instance, the folks at DeBurt

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have come up with terminology.

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But because we're trying to focus on this integrative approach

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and we're trying to encompass different groups

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of indigenous people that now occupy the Wabaraki homeland,

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we're not trying to preference any particular terminology

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and trying to emphasize those continuities.

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But we are absolutely referring to the ancestors

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of the contemporary indigenous people who occupy this place.

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And we'll be including in the show notes

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reference to, for example, the MiGMA culture

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historical terminology for the eastern Maritimes region.

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Absolutely.

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And so we're going to take a kind of excuse here

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to not talk about pre-Clovis, which is complicated and fraught.

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And we're going to say that here in the Northeast,

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the first archaeological evidence for people being here

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are descendant and related to Clovis.

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And so we're going to sort of frame this show around the idea

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that we're going to focus first on a kind of broad outline

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of paleo Indians in North America, beginning with Clovis.

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Then we're going to look at the New England Maritimes region.

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And then we're going to look at New Brunswick.

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So we're going to kind of funnel this down

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and hope that we don't lose the thread as we do that.

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But one thing we should warn the listener about

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is that it's a fascinating thing about paleo Indians

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is that the study of paleo Indians

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routinely makes otherwise sane people,

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otherwise sane archaeologists, just lose their minds.

257
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:58,040
It's really fascinating.

258
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,000
It's called Olditis and the biz.

259
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,960
And Ken and I were talking before the show.

260
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:09,760
And in fact, I've had somewhat limited experience

261
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:10,920
on paleo Indian sites.

262
00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:16,840
I directed work one summer at the...

263
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,360
So if you're going to do one summer of paleo Indian research,

264
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,520
it should probably be at the Misho cluster.

265
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:23,360
That was my attitude.

266
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,200
It's this important cluster of paleo Indian sites in Maine.

267
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,000
I worked at the La Montaigne site.

268
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,120
But when I was doing this,

269
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,320
I was on this really sweet health insurance plan

270
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,560
through Bates College, an American college,

271
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:34,720
well-due college.

272
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,280
And so as a result, I actually, I was seeing my analysts

273
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,800
during this three days, three days a week.

274
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,680
I'd cranked my well butron prescription up.

275
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,200
I just threw the roof.

276
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,880
And I was also recording all sorts of information,

277
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,800
biometrics, just to make sure that I was firmly keeping

278
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:53,840
my boots on the ground during this.

279
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,160
Because what happens sometimes is your archaeologists

280
00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,560
get into these into paleo Indian studies.

281
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,480
And it's as if Captain Ahab had just nailed the silver dollar

282
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,080
to the mast.

283
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,560
And you are chasing that white whale

284
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:08,880
and come hell or high water,

285
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,320
you're going to find that white whale.

286
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,360
So that's my well-made...

287
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,200
And what is that white whale game?

288
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,720
That white whale can is a fluted point.

289
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,960
And a fluted point is a point which is,

290
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:27,960
has a flake, so a concoital fracture,

291
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,560
that as if you were to shoot a BB through glass,

292
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,640
but it starts at the bottom of the point

293
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,600
and goes towards the tip.

294
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,400
And it shears off what's called a channel flake.

295
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,680
And the result is a point that has usually on both sides,

296
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,840
a flute that's removed,

297
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:50,440
and it goes from base to tip,

298
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,560
rather than most lithic reduction,

299
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,080
which goes side to side.

300
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,840
And the flute is,

301
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,160
the fluted point is totally unique,

302
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,080
Ken, you're the lithics guy,

303
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,960
but I believe this is totally unique to North America, right?

304
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,000
So up until a few years ago, yeah.

305
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:11,000
So this is, so fluting is a uniquely North American technology.

306
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,880
And so fluting of paleo Indian points,

307
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:16,880
up until actually just a few years ago

308
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,760
was thought to be actually an exclusively

309
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,400
North American technology.

310
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,760
But there are only actually three places in the world

311
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,400
where that's been found.

312
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,400
And so there's the paleo Indian period in North America.

313
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:30,920
And then a couple of years ago,

314
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,120
they found evidence of fluting in Yemen and Oman

315
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:35,200
from Neolithic sites

316
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,200
between about eight and 7,000 years ago apparently.

317
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:39,160
No kidding.

318
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,800
And they don't look the same as Clovis points, right?

319
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,040
Like these aren't like collateraly flaked or parallel flaked.

320
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,880
And so what's unique about fluted points in North America

321
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,080
is that the projectile points, the byfaces

322
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,080
that they're made on are really elegantly made

323
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,720
and have a very distinctive flaking pattern

324
00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,560
where all of the flakes are taken from the sides,

325
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:00,920
meet almost at the middle,

326
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,800
and they're almost parallel the whole way down the point.

327
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,960
And then you strike this flute up the middle of them.

328
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,960
The photos I've seen of these fluted points,

329
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,600
these Neolithic fluted points from Oman

330
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,640
and from the Arab world,

331
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:18,280
basically are not as fancy as Clovis ones.

332
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,200
And there's obviously no relationship between the two of them.

333
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,080
This is sort of like an independent thing.

334
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,000
But certainly North America, it's unique to North America.

335
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,640
It's fairly unique in the world.

336
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:34,040
And it is the first indication of fluting in all of the world,

337
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,520
which is, which is,

338
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,840
and so I think really it is still kind of a uniquely

339
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,640
North American technology, which is cool

340
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,640
because it's among maybe the only technology

341
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,280
that was sort of developed here first, I guess,

342
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,200
like that wasn't sort of built on some other

343
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,240
or similar patterns elsewhere in the world.

344
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:54,080
Yeah, that's fascinating.

345
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,440
I had no idea that fluting ever occurred elsewhere.

346
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,800
I'm gonna have to change my lecture notes now actually.

347
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,920
So I had to actually correct myself during a class

348
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,320
because I had a student ask me,

349
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,600
is this the only place in the world where fluting has occurred?

350
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:07,640
And I said, yeah, I think so.

351
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,760
And I said, I think it's a uniquely North American thing.

352
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,160
And then I did some research that evening.

353
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,320
And I like the next class, I had to come back and say,

354
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,360
so I was wrong up until about 2020.

355
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:20,120
And there's this interesting article here.

356
00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:21,080
Let me just pull up.

357
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,360
And we'll throw this article in the show notes too

358
00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:25,880
because this is incredibly cool.

359
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,760
I did, this is, this could almost be a hit piece.

360
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:29,600
It's that new.

361
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:32,880
I don't know if it's a hit, I don't know if it's that new.

362
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,520
It's like 2020, I think was, you just keep rolling.

363
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:37,360
I'm gonna pull it up.

364
00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:38,800
I've got it in the wrong bookmark.

365
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,320
So, well, Ken is pulling this up though.

366
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,080
I should say that the,

367
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:43,760
what we're gonna then describe here

368
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,400
as we're fitting those through,

369
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:46,880
the reason we're talking about this

370
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,720
fluted point technology is that the first fluted points

371
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,480
in North America, the fluted points that people think about

372
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,240
when they think about fluted points are Clovis.

373
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:01,120
And we talked a little bit last to Fortnite

374
00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:04,920
about the importance of establishing time depth

375
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:06,080
in North America.

376
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,960
And we mentioned that there were particular kinds

377
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,560
of diagnostic projectile points

378
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,840
that were discovered in association

379
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,680
with old forms of fauna.

380
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,560
So, basically with Pleistocene megafauna.

381
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,000
And that was really crucial to saying,

382
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,680
well, humans were killing these ice age megafauna.

383
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,760
Therefore humans have been in North America

384
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:30,800
for a really long time

385
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,000
since the basically the end of the ice age.

386
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,760
Yeah, like a really important historical moment

387
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:36,600
in North America.

388
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,440
And the understanding of indigenous history

389
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,480
in North America was that,

390
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,960
you find a fulsome point embedded in a bison antiquus.

391
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,360
It's you're older than 4,000 years right there.

392
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:47,800
Absolutely, yeah.

393
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,400
And so when we're,

394
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,040
and this actually really speaks to the sort of,

395
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:53,840
we're gonna lay out a framework for you here,

396
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:55,680
a kind of temporal framework.

397
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,760
And we're gonna try to do this without pictures,

398
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,280
which is tricky, but we're gonna, throughout this,

399
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,960
everything is gonna be sort of hung on three

400
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,480
time periods, which are named basically

401
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,800
after forms of spear points.

402
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,680
Okay, so this is points that are attached to spears.

403
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,480
And probably at least at first,

404
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,800
very much used to hunt big mammals.

405
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,760
And the first of these is Clovis.

406
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:29,040
And Clovis is known for having a slightly shorter flute.

407
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,520
That's that flake driven from base tip.

408
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,720
And then we get a fulsome with that,

409
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,440
with a longer flute from base to tip.

410
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,080
And then we get at the very end of the Paleo-Indian period

411
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,840
around the continent, Lancelot points.

412
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,240
And these don't have those flutes,

413
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,680
although occasionally they've got a little bit of

414
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:51,880
playing around with the base.

415
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:53,720
Yeah, aggressively basely thinned,

416
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,880
I believe is Chris Ellis and David Black's terminology.

417
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,080
It's a fantastic term, I like it a lot.

418
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,400
And but as a result,

419
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,680
we're gonna give you some more terminology for time

420
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,320
related to these points as the show goes on

421
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:08,840
and we narrow this down.

422
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:10,680
But basically one of the fascinating things

423
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:15,680
of Paleo-Indians is that their mobility is in excess

424
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,440
of what we would know for almost any ethnographically

425
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,440
understood hunter-gatherer group.

426
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,240
So as a result, these are ancestors of indigenous people

427
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,000
that now inhabit the Wabanaki homeland,

428
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,920
who are basically colonizing all of North America

429
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,120
in a number of years that is in the hundreds,

430
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:37,640
rather than in the thousands.

431
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,960
So very, very quickly.

432
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,280
So as a result, we're gonna talk about the region we're in

433
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,320
as we're gonna use terms like Clovis derived

434
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,200
or Folsom derived.

435
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,360
Clovis like?

436
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:52,200
Clovis like, these sorts of things.

437
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,280
And what this just means is that we're using

438
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:57,800
a local terminology for these groups

439
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,800
that implies a slightly later occupation,

440
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:08,600
but later in very relative, you know, small terms,

441
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,760
basically that people are still moving from West to East,

442
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,800
colonizing North America,

443
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:17,760
and they're doing so very, very quickly.

444
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,960
Yeah, yeah, there's like a 300 year time lag

445
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,000
between classic, the beginning of classic Clovis

446
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,600
and the beginning of Clovis like

447
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,440
in the far Northeast basically.

448
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,920
Yeah, did you find that article Ken?

449
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:31,000
I did, yeah.

450
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,000
Fluted Point Technology in Neolithic Arabia,

451
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,160
an independent invention far from the Americas.

452
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,280
It's a plus one article by Remy Cressard,

453
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,960
Vincent Charpentier, Joy McCorston, Jeremy Wozke,

454
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,240
Sophia Bousid and Michael D. Petrelia.

455
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,040
Fantastic, and that far from the Americas,

456
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,040
I think says, you know, all you need to know

457
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,760
about where Clovis, where Fluted Points are known from.

458
00:22:58,760 --> 00:22:59,800
Yeah, exactly.

459
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,960
And so when we're talking about Peleum Indians,

460
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,320
we're talking about the first, you know,

461
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,080
well understood colonization of North America.

462
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,240
And so about 13,000 years ago,

463
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,680
moving very rapidly across the Americas from the Northwest,

464
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,280
and it's characterized by Clovis spear points,

465
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,120
these fluted spear points we've talked about,

466
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:30,120
and this hyperdiagnostic technology and hunting megafauna.

467
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,640
So this is kind of the classic basic frame

468
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,520
that we're gonna build all of this on.

469
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,400
These people have a classic toolkit,

470
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,040
and this includes big scrapers,

471
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,600
and it's got a variety of styles

472
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,040
made from really nice rock.

473
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,600
So, you know, Ken's a rock guy,

474
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,760
but I think it's actually better to hear this

475
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,520
from a non-rock guy,

476
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,240
which is that Peleum Indians seemed to really like nice rocks.

477
00:23:58,240 --> 00:23:59,400
Like they like the kind of rocks

478
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,960
that even I can make something that looks like a flake out of.

479
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,720
Is that your sense, too, Ken?

480
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,560
Yeah, they like pretty rocks.

481
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:07,920
And as we talked about the first week,

482
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,800
they seemed to like red rocks.

483
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,400
You know, Nathaniel Kitchell has a paper out on this,

484
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,360
but even Dean Snow in like 1980 was talking about

485
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:17,600
how red chirp might have been something to do with,

486
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,320
you know, the kind of connotations of blood

487
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,320
and an animal hunt, you know.

488
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,120
So there's some, these high quality materials

489
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:27,760
were attractive, probably because you need

490
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,520
very good material to make these elaborately flake fluted points,

491
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,000
but also there was something,

492
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:34,840
there was definitely,

493
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,800
I think there was probably an aesthetic element to it,

494
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,240
and there's definitely preferential materials

495
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:41,480
in different time periods.

496
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:42,640
So in Southern Ontario,

497
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,640
they really, Peleum Indians particularly fluted point,

498
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,000
and then up until basically sort of on the cusp of like

499
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,200
Lance O'Lake, but Peleum Indians in general,

500
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,400
like calling woodchirt, which is this site,

501
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,840
very beautiful white chert, very fine grained and everything,

502
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,320
but it's not used basically after the Peleum Indian period.

503
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,520
So it's almost diagnostic in Southern Ontario.

504
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,400
So if you find calling woodchirt, it's probably Peleo.

505
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:08,480
Well, that's very cool.

506
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:13,480
The, there's the real Peleum Indian enthusiasm though

507
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,360
for high quality cherts.

508
00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:19,360
It seems to be a thing like throughout the continent though.

509
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:20,760
I think that's fair to say.

510
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:21,600
Yeah.

511
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,080
And even like, you know,

512
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,960
homeland of Clovis, which, you know,

513
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,000
in New Mexico where the type site is,

514
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,840
all throughout North America, it's nice material.

515
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,960
Like, so this was a thing that a group of people

516
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,640
did have a real preference for.

517
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,400
And there's a possible fluted point made even on raw material

518
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,480
from Labrador that was found in Vermont, I believe.

519
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:44,360
Oh, really? Oh, wow.

520
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:45,400
Yeah. Okay, cool.

521
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,960
Yeah. It's a little dubious, you know, on the base,

522
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,520
but the, but it looks like a fluted point to me

523
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,680
and other people have suggested that as well.

524
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,040
So in addition to these fluted points,

525
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,560
it's the fluted point is the big diagnostic thing.

526
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,000
And we should say, we mentioned,

527
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,560
we mentioned that occasionally,

528
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,840
Paleo-Indian makes archaeologists lose their minds.

529
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,400
There's actually even a song about this.

530
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,120
There's a popular song about this.

531
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:16,280
That's a great song too.

532
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,520
But yeah, yeah, by Tyler Childers,

533
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,200
who's in a song called Banded Clovis.

534
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,040
And Tyler Childers, he's from Ohio,

535
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,920
but he sort of purports to be a West Virginian,

536
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,160
which is something you would do if you were from Ohio,

537
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,840
which is, you know, maybe Ohio's probably the worst state

538
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,560
in the United States, West Virginia is easily in the top five.

539
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:41,560
And so if we had any listeners from Ohio before this episode,

540
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,240
I think we've just lost them.

541
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:44,680
Yeah, we didn't have any listeners from Ohio.

542
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,200
We might have gained some West Virginians though.

543
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,640
Yeah, well, I should hope.

544
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:54,960
It's the West Virginia Archaeological Society

545
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,840
has welcomed the chime in to sponsor this

546
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,320
with a rigging endorsement from Tyler Childers.

547
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,160
But the, but Childers has a song called Banded Clovis

548
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,400
and it's about these looters who go out

549
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,440
and one of the looters finds a point

550
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,680
that I believe the quote is,

551
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,320
it's banded as hell, it was fluted in Clovis.

552
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,560
Yep. Is that the line?

553
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,440
Yeah, and then the other fellow that he's looting with

554
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:21,560
kills him and takes the point, I think.

555
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,360
This is the premise of the whole country song.

556
00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:25,000
Yeah.

557
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,640
Which is, that's a niche country song right there,

558
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,000
but it's got a certain ring to it.

559
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,880
It's great teaching material too.

560
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,320
It is, yeah, you can rag the puck

561
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,920
for a good three and a half minutes on a class with that.

562
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,200
But there are other things in the kind of classic

563
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,080
fluted point paleo Indian toolkit.

564
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,680
And so these include big scrapers,

565
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,680
which are also usually made on high quality stone.

566
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,160
And that's likely for handling the hides

567
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,280
from big mammals that people are killing

568
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:57,960
with the projectile points.

569
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,000
And there's also some other kind of interesting things.

570
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,560
You get on some of the scrapers, you get spurs.

571
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,080
And the reason that the spurs exist,

572
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,520
these are little basically protrusion

573
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,560
off the sides of the scrapers.

574
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:13,920
And that may exist.

575
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,480
There's all sorts of literature on this

576
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,360
because people may get tired as they're scraping.

577
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:19,440
And so as a result, the scrapers wear out

578
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,520
more on one side than the other.

579
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,640
Might relate to handedness.

580
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,640
We don't really know.

581
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,840
In addition to this, you get a material called limbises,

582
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,360
which Ken, you're bilingual.

583
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:32,520
I think means slug in French, doesn't it?

584
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,560
Yeah, this slug or a flake shaver

585
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,480
or I think a burr is another name for them.

586
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:39,320
Yeah.

587
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:44,320
But yeah, these sort of slug shaped flake shavers.

588
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,000
So they're basically a unifacial artifact

589
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,360
that was kind of humpbacked and probably used for

590
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,880
and hafted, I think is the idea behind them.

591
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,560
And so some of the, I think the large humpback,

592
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,360
like the big scrapers, the big unifaces,

593
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,560
I think were probably big enough to be used in hand.

594
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,920
And then the thinking is the limbises were probably hafted.

595
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,840
I think I've got that correct, don't I?

596
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,080
I think that's true.

597
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,480
I think with fairly new material though,

598
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,000
whether or not things were hafted is in the eye of the,

599
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,720
everything seems so large

600
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,280
that you sort of think, well, it must be hafted.

601
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,400
Yeah, kind of cool thing about scrapers too.

602
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:27,400
So in the Southeast, you have scrapers as part of this

603
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,480
sort of diagnostic paleo Indian toolkit,

604
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,480
and then they disappear for like the rest of history

605
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,480
until like the contact period in the Southeast.

606
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:39,800
Oh, that's totally bizarre.

607
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:40,640
Really?

608
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,400
You don't see like them as sort of a part of toolkits.

609
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,920
There's a line in like that Sassman and Papatat textbook

610
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,480
that basically they talk about that scrapers essentially

611
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,000
like the paleo style scrapers could disappear

612
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,440
basically until contact.

613
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:58,400
Huh, that's totally wild

614
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,360
because they remain a huge thing up here.

615
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,200
Yeah, yeah.

616
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,280
And changing shape and form and everything

617
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,120
as we'll talk about on the show.

618
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:11,120
But yeah, but don't disappear like they do there apparently.

619
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:11,960
So.

620
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,280
Yeah, that's really interesting.

621
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,520
And in fact, we'll talk more about Uniface technology

622
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,200
at length, either the show after next or next show,

623
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:22,600
we still haven't quite figured this out.

624
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,040
We'll even get back to spurred scrapers at some point.

625
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:25,880
We will, that's true.

626
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:26,720
Yeah.

627
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,280
So stay tuned, if you're still listening,

628
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,360
even you Ohio listeners, we'll be back.

629
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:36,520
In six to eight weeks,

630
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,200
we'll be talking about spurred scrapers again.

631
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,040
Precisely.

632
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,640
There are drills, drills appear sometimes

633
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,320
in paleo Indian toolkits.

634
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:46,880
And then, but one thing we should mention

635
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,840
that I feel obliged to mention is that even though

636
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,520
we associate and we mentioned that paleo Indian toolkits

637
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:57,520
with really high quality stone, really impressive tools.

638
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:04,040
They also in the Northeast use junky local material

639
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,520
to make choppers.

640
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,080
Basically junky tools out of junky material,

641
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,080
like heavy stuff for chopping down trees

642
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,320
or breaking bone and processing,

643
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:23,000
probably as you're initially tearing apart a large mammal,

644
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,720
you need a heavy tool for it.

645
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,320
So at the Lamontaine site,

646
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,560
the stuff was called Christian Hill Diabase.

647
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:37,120
And the source had been blown up to expand the airport.

648
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,920
But the material, it looked like,

649
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,400
I've got family from New Jersey,

650
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,200
and it looked like if you'd blown up their driveways.

651
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,880
Essentially, he created something out of the tar,

652
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,280
cement stuff that they use in that part of the world

653
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:53,320
to make driveways.

654
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,720
So we've talked a little bit about the toolkit.

655
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,040
We've talked a little bit about the people.

656
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,120
We're going to narrow this down more.

657
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,440
So to quickly kind of recap,

658
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:10,520
we've got people who are probably big game specialists.

659
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,560
They're using a very diagnostic toolkit

660
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,520
using high quality stone.

661
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,320
And they are moving really, really rapidly

662
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,800
to colonize North America from West to East.

663
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,160
But we haven't talked much about the landscape.

664
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:33,800
And so this period in time is the end of the last Ice Age

665
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,040
or the Pleistocene.

666
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:37,560
So it's this transitional period.

667
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,000
And this is going to be important when we talk about

668
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,160
our more local region.

669
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,240
But it's also sort of important for understanding

670
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,440
broader trends in the region.

671
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,840
So what we're looking at, I think,

672
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,800
is and kind of correct me here as a nuance this can,

673
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,040
is that in a broad sense, we're going

674
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,000
to lump Clovis and Falsum, the first two fluted point

675
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:08,240
periods together, as being the end of the Ice Age.

676
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,120
And we can lump that together even more narrowly.

677
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,080
As being part of the Younger Dryas, which is basically

678
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:22,120
that as the Ice Age is ending, especially during Falsum,

679
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,440
things get a little bit colder again.

680
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,640
So you kind of get Paleoidium, then things get chilly,

681
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:30,960
and they get dry.

682
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:31,440
Yeah.

683
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,440
And there's a little bit more nuance in there,

684
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:39,720
in that traditional Clovis predates the Younger Dryas

685
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,080
in the Southwest and in other parts of the continent.

686
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,960
But when you get into the Northeast,

687
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,560
Clovis begins at the start of the Younger Dryas.

688
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:54,800
So I mentioned earlier this 300-year lag.

689
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:59,320
And so traditional Clovis starts around 13,200 years ago.

690
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,520
The Younger Dryas starts around 12,900 years ago.

691
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,800
And as we're talking now for the next few minutes

692
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,960
about the Northeast New England Maritimes region,

693
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,920
we're starting at around 12,900 years ago,

694
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,120
which is the start of the Younger Dryas

695
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,240
and which terminates at around 11,600 years ago

696
00:34:19,240 --> 00:34:22,120
at the end of the Pleistocene, basically.

697
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,640
And I should direct the listener to Ken and Dave Black.

698
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:31,200
So I just had a chapter out in a book from Nimbus Publishing

699
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,200
called The Last Billion Years.

700
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:35,440
The Last Billion Years.

701
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:35,920
Yep.

702
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,400
And it's fantastic.

703
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,400
And it deals with a lot of this because it considers humans

704
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,120
alongside the kind of geological information

705
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,360
and the kind of environmental information Ken's just

706
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:47,280
talking about.

707
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,120
And it's actually, it's a book that's really suitable

708
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:51,080
for everybody too.

709
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,160
So I think that's one of the many things.

710
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,760
And it's also the illustrations are fantastic.

711
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,720
And one thing I would say is absolutely get

712
00:34:57,720 --> 00:34:58,880
the most recent one.

713
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,640
You might be lured into some of the earlier ones,

714
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:01,520
which were fantastic.

715
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,360
But Ken and Dave's chapter really updates some of the stuff

716
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:05,600
he was just talking about.

717
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:06,080
Yeah.

718
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,280
Yeah, we're very, so it's The Last Billion Years,

719
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,400
a geological history of the maritime provinces of Canada.

720
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,080
So it's the second edition just came out last year.

721
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,280
Rob Fensom and Graham Williams are the editors.

722
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,120
And this is, Dave and I played a very small part

723
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,760
in two chapters toward the end of the book.

724
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:28,800
But if you want to learn basically where the Maritimes,

725
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,600
all of our rocks come from, how our part of the continent

726
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:38,960
was formed, the life that was here well before humans.

727
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,960
And then toward the end of it, they contextualized

728
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,280
the human history.

729
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:45,800
And so Dave and I had the opportunity

730
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,320
to contribute to a couple of chapters

731
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,520
toward the end, which is really great.

732
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,120
I mean, there was archaeology in the original version.

733
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,840
And so this is basically, we got a couple extra pages

734
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:59,280
to add this time to provide a little bit of extra context.

735
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:00,680
But yeah, fantastic book.

736
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,120
And I've told this story a few times to Gabe and others

737
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,080
that this was a book that I read when I was like,

738
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,320
I don't know, in early high school years.

739
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,000
And so it was in the first edition.

740
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,800
And so it's something that even for those of you in grade school,

741
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,400
it makes a fantastic Christmas gift or birthday

742
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,040
gift for the young rockhound among us.

743
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:24,360
I was just going to plug that in.

744
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,080
And the other thing is the illustrations are really, really

745
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:28,720
high quality in that book.

746
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:29,400
They are.

747
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,080
Including of one of New Brunswick's oldest

748
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:37,680
Pillionaire points, which we'll return to later in the show.

749
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:43,160
So what we've got then is a situation where we might as well

750
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:48,160
just sort of pivot local now to the New England Maritimes area.

751
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,440
And that's a clunky formulation, I realize.

752
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,720
But basically what that is denoting

753
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:59,800
is that it seems like the Rotten New England and Maritime

754
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,440
provinces of Canada, there's no evidence for Pillionians

755
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:09,840
in Newfoundland, that we've got this basically sort of shared

756
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,400
cultural formulation for the Pillionian period, where people

757
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,800
are interacting across this enormous distance.

758
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,080
It's this kind of shared cultural thing that's going on.

759
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,680
What the environment probably would have looked like during this period

760
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,800
is that it would have been really dynamic.

761
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,280
So it would have been changing a lot.

762
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,440
It's probably a sort of tundra-like environment.

763
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,440
And as people moved around, this is actually

764
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,360
why I left Fredrickton today, was that this region would

765
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,160
have had remnant ice caps, much like downtown Fredrickton has

766
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,640
in this wonderful day.

767
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,400
But the glaciers were retreating.

768
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,160
And can I feel bad putting you on the spot about this?

769
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,320
But would you like to explain isostatic rebound

770
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,360
to the listener?

771
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,160
Well, so basically at one point, probably, I think,

772
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:05,280
up to about 14,000 years ago, most of the Maritimes

773
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,560
was covered in what was it, like over a kilometer of ice

774
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:09,600
or something like that.

775
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,840
Yeah, the Wisconsin glaciation, right?

776
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:12,400
Yeah, yeah.

777
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:17,480
So the Wisconsin glaciation reached its peak.

778
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,400
Our part of the Wisconsin glaciation

779
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,080
is the Laurentide ice sheet, which

780
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,320
covered basically all of continental North America

781
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,920
from the Rockies east and covered south down

782
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:37,040
to about probably what, like Virginia, like West Virginia

783
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,480
area, or did it get that far down?

784
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,360
I'm squinting at the map in my mind.

785
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,760
Below the Great Lakes, certainly.

786
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,560
There's a fascinating tangent about this, which

787
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,600
at this year's ESAF meeting, I learned

788
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:57,920
that there are some extremely dubious, essentially

789
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:03,800
unbelievable ideas about when Pennsylvania and West Virginia

790
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,520
and Ohio were deglaciated.

791
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:12,800
Enough that made me basically not believe

792
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,640
the mid-Atlantic maps on this stuff.

793
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:17,480
Oh, really?

794
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:18,720
Yeah.

795
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:22,600
And I sort of remember this looking at the other archaeologists.

796
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,080
It was, don't hold me to this listener,

797
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:30,120
but this may be a Hakuna Orata next show.

798
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,360
But someone said something like that there were places

799
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,000
in, I think, Pennsylvania that weren't

800
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,960
de-ice until 4,000 years ago.

801
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,080
And that's impossible.

802
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:42,440
That can't be right.

803
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:43,520
That can't be right, no.

804
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,520
Yeah.

805
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,360
Like even in the Maritimes, which had the younger, driest ice

806
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,920
re-advance, I think all the ice was gone by 9,000 years ago.

807
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:54,920
Yeah, exactly right.

808
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:56,320
And so we questioned that.

809
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:57,080
Yeah.

810
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,200
And we questioned this during the session.

811
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:00,760
And it turns out that this is there actually

812
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,840
like legit geological and environmental models that

813
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:04,320
suggest this.

814
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,240
They must just be incorrect.

815
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:08,240
Huh.

816
00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:09,680
That is interesting.

817
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:10,240
Yeah.

818
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:11,640
So I'm actually looking at it.

819
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:12,720
But I'll shoot it, seems impossible.

820
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:16,080
I am looking at an ice margin map right now.

821
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,000
And it looks like actually that the max,

822
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,680
like so the peak glaciation would have covered down

823
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,600
to below the Great Lakes, but probably hovering right

824
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,480
around kind of like a straight line between like Pennsylvania

825
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:32,440
and sort of like Maryland.

826
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,240
So let's just say that the Potomac,

827
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:38,760
is that what drains out in Maryland?

828
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,320
Yeah.

829
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,240
I think this is what William Gardner,

830
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:47,000
who worked at the Thunderbird Paleo-Ine site in Virginia,

831
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,720
called the Biotic Mason-Dixon line.

832
00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:51,760
Oh, that would, there you go.

833
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,320
That's a little bit more eloquent than me kind of umming

834
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,920
and awing about what's going on.

835
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,560
I think it's a great phrase anyway.

836
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,000
I like the phrase.

837
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:00,440
Yeah.

838
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,560
So getting back to ice is that a rebound though.

839
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:09,040
So picture over a kilometer of ice sitting on rock.

840
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,360
And that rock is sitting on a plastic surface,

841
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:18,080
which is magma underneath the North American tectonic plate.

842
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,960
And so as that ice melts, it lets off water,

843
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,320
but it's also getting lighter.

844
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,880
And so over time, basically what happens

845
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:30,400
is that the more of the ice that melts,

846
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,920
there's more water going, streaming off of it.

847
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,360
But the weight that is pressing down

848
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,160
on the continental ice shelf releases.

849
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,680
And so you have basically a shift where for a time,

850
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:47,400
you have high levels of water because you have water melting

851
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:47,920
rapidly.

852
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,200
And so you have the formation of, you have what are called

853
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:52,320
marine incursions.

854
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:57,200
And so parts of central New Brunswick basically up into really

855
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,840
like past Fredericton would have been under,

856
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,640
and most of the Grand Lake region

857
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,800
would have been under a much larger marine incursions

858
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,280
as body of water that kind of came inland.

859
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,040
And then over time, what happens is

860
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,880
that that water comes down in a flash very quickly.

861
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,760
And then starting at around 12,000 or so years ago,

862
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,560
that water starts to drop down again.

863
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,880
And the continent springs back up basically

864
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,680
because the weight that has been sitting on it, all that ice,

865
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:29,720
has been let off.

866
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:31,520
And the continent starts to rise back up.

867
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,640
And so you have a really dramatic change

868
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,320
where you have ice melting and a huge influx

869
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:38,200
of water.

870
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,160
Basically, the ocean comes up very high.

871
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,200
And then that drops down.

872
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,680
And the land rises up again.

873
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:48,440
And the water levels drop very low again.

874
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,920
And so you have changing landscapes all around.

875
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,040
And in particular, this is pertinent to Paleo-Indians

876
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,000
because at the time that they were moving

877
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,360
into the Atlantic Northeast, there was basically more land

878
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,840
available for them to live in than we would see today.

879
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,080
And another reason that it's significant archaeologically

880
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:12,280
is that this means that it's something

881
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,440
on the order of a 50-meter difference about where

882
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,280
so that there would have been about.

883
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:19,120
Vertical difference.

884
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:20,000
Yeah, yeah, sorry.

885
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:20,520
Exactly.

886
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,120
So there would have been.

887
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,400
If there were coastal Paleo-Indian occupations,

888
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,760
they would be substantially underwater now.

889
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,680
Along with this, there's all sorts of things

890
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:33,720
that happen to water courses on the interior.

891
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:37,440
So one of the things that happens is many things that

892
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,480
are now swamps were glacial lakes.

893
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:45,880
So you get this sort of change from lake to swamp.

894
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:51,400
You get changes in the where water courses go in meander

895
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:52,920
and how big they are.

896
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:57,440
And so it's this period of really also rapid change.

897
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,720
That's, I think, another important point

898
00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:02,880
is that the landscape is changing really, really quickly

899
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:04,040
in this region.

900
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:04,680
Yeah.

901
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:09,680
And you have this original marine incursion.

902
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,320
And in the Maritimes, in Central New Brunswick,

903
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,280
for example, you have this kind of interesting situation

904
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:19,760
where you have an influx of ocean water at first.

905
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,320
But then you have, because of isostatic rebound,

906
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,000
the water that's sitting in central New Brunswick,

907
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,520
as the land rises up, gets trapped in there,

908
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,120
as the Bay of Fundy drops down.

909
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,840
And so you have the formation of what are called proglacial

910
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:38,160
lakes, or these sort of stranded meltwater bodies

911
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,640
that are a mix of marine water and freshwater runoff

912
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,640
from melting glaciers.

913
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,040
And so you have the formation of what's

914
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:47,720
called glacial lake Acadia, which

915
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:51,240
is sort of this ancestral lake for the string of lakes

916
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:55,840
that dot the lower reaches of Veloste River,

917
00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:00,880
forming for at least like probably 3,000 or so years,

918
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,720
coinciding with when paleo-union groups were in the region.

919
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:08,080
And so the knock-on effect of all this

920
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:09,640
is that the analogy everybody always

921
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,680
uses for thinking about paleo-union landscapes

922
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,960
is basically the subarctic.

923
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,280
And there's some problems with that

924
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,680
because you don't necessarily want

925
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,880
to think about the paleo-union period as being equivalent

926
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,720
to subarctic people because subarctic people have been,

927
00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:28,680
by the time we know them in the ethnostoric record,

928
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,440
Stephen Lawrence talked about this.

929
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,280
By the time we hear about subarctic people

930
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,200
in the ethnostoric record, they've

931
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:39,680
been forced off the coast because by Europeans, essentially.

932
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:41,920
So it's possibly a very different life way,

933
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,040
and it's not one that's directly applicable.

934
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,280
But in terms of just a kind of landscape,

935
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,600
if you're to imagine the landscape,

936
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,160
thinking about the subarctic, you're not

937
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,280
going to be far off in the sort of what

938
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,040
fluted point paleo-union we're living on.

939
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,480
And you'll be pretty close.

940
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,200
So it's colder.

941
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:04,240
You've got different kinds of low shrubs.

942
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:04,800
Scrubs?

943
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,280
Yeah, absolutely.

944
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:12,040
And so as this is all happening, one of the things

945
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:17,160
that the Maritimes is known for is this extremely important

946
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:18,960
paleo-union site.

947
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,280
And it's called the DeBert site.

948
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,160
It's in Nova Scotia.

949
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,360
My connection to the DeBert site is that I almost wrecked

950
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,960
or was part of wrecking a minivan filled with column

951
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,880
samples of shell from a wooden period shell heap.

952
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,760
Essentially at the DeBert site, we pulled off to fuel up.

953
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,800
The van was somewhat overloaded.

954
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:41,160
I told the joke to the driver.

955
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,120
We very nearly rolled it.

956
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,160
It would have been interesting to have the two of us

957
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,040
in a shell midden and a minivan in this site.

958
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,480
Very grateful it didn't happen.

959
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,480
But the DeBert site is one of these.

960
00:46:54,480 --> 00:47:00,000
It's not the earliest period of site known from the region.

961
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,240
But it's among the earliest sites known from the region.

962
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:07,600
And it's one of these big clusters of sites.

963
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:11,720
And so we should talk for a minute here

964
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:16,320
about the phenomenon of site clustering.

965
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,480
So we mentioned that the environment.

966
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,360
And to give the listeners just a range,

967
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,880
DeBert was occupied around averages out to around 12,600.

968
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,880
That falls into a period between about 12,700 and 12,200

969
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:30,680
years ago.

970
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:31,200
Fantastic.

971
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,120
And those are real years too.

972
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:34,000
So we're using them.

973
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:34,920
Those are calendar years.

974
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:40,080
We're going to focus on using calendar years in our podcast

975
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:44,560
broadcast so that we do not lead the listener astray

976
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,080
by throwing out random radiocarbon dates that

977
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:48,640
aren't calibrated.

978
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,400
And so just while we're on the subject of dates, actually,

979
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,840
because we're about to go down this rabbit hole of dates

980
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:01,040
and naming these time periods in more narrow ways

981
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,400
than we probably should, we should

982
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,360
say that there's extreme difficulty in dating

983
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:08,680
palliative sites.

984
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,960
And that's for a variety of reasons.

985
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,960
But basically, you'll remember from the last episode

986
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,120
that radiocarbon dating works on things

987
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:19,280
that have died.

988
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,840
So the classic example is wood charcoal.

989
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,560
So you burn some wood.

990
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:25,920
It preserves.

991
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:30,000
It can date the death of the tree.

992
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,240
The palliative sites are old.

993
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:35,800
They're often in very sandy soil matrices.

994
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,680
I believe you explained your summer at Lamontang

995
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:40,760
is playing in the sandbox, actually.

996
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:41,400
It was.

997
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,960
It was really fantastic, actually.

998
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:48,240
Essentially, you throw the sand in the screen.

999
00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:49,600
You barely shake the screen.

1000
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:50,760
You kick the screen.

1001
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,200
You pull the artifacts out.

1002
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:53,440
And then you do it again.

1003
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,160
The only tricky part is that the walls keep

1004
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,520
caving in on your excavations if you're not careful.

1005
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,880
So you just keep an eye on that.

1006
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,000
But they're mostly in these fantastic soils.

1007
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,600
But there are very few features.

1008
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,680
And features are what archaeologists

1009
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:09,680
call immovable artifacts.

1010
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:15,400
So things like house floors, hearths, fire pits.

1011
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:16,920
A hearth is a fire pit.

1012
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:17,720
Exactly, yeah.

1013
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:21,560
Are pretty rare in palliative sites.

1014
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:28,600
So as a result, we have very few good radiocarbon absolute

1015
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,800
dates on palliative sites.

1016
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,560
We do have some, though.

1017
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:36,600
And many of these sites, so many of these dates,

1018
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,160
are from burned bone.

1019
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:40,960
We've got some burned bone.

1020
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,680
And then others are from some of these bigger sites,

1021
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,480
such as actually DeBurke, which had some fairly

1022
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,480
identifiable features.

1023
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:57,080
From these dates, what archaeologists have done,

1024
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,400
and especially, and we'll put a link to this in the show notes,

1025
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,600
but Bradley and colleagues in Archaeology of Eastern North

1026
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:12,520
America, use these absolute dates to devise a point typology

1027
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,600
for New England and the Maritime's Region.

1028
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:16,520
What this point typology does, it

1029
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:22,120
looks at what are actually pretty small nuances in the changes

1030
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,920
in Pellewindian points.

1031
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,280
So things like the length of the flute,

1032
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,520
the depth of the basal concavity,

1033
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,480
whether or not there is a flute or not,

1034
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,760
to try to put in approximate order a series of types.

1035
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,360
And these types are each named for sites.

1036
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,240
Most of them are named for two sites.

1037
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:41,880
Yeah.

1038
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,560
So we're going back to what Gabe was talking about before,

1039
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:49,000
where you've got the Clovis being the fluted points,

1040
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,600
Folsom being the deeper fluted points,

1041
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:55,080
and then Plano being these unfluted points.

1042
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:59,960
So like Jethro Tall without Ian Anderson basically.

1043
00:50:59,960 --> 00:51:02,840
So the listener can't see that Ken just

1044
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:04,120
checked his notes for that joke.

1045
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:05,960
I'm just going to put it out of the moment.

1046
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:06,960
Yeah.

1047
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:07,960
Yeah.

1048
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:09,240
Cue the tall note.

1049
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:17,160
And so these point types are in sequence, though.

1050
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,000
I'm going to name them, just because why not.

1051
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,920
The first one, Kings Road Whipple.

1052
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,360
The next one, Vale de Bert.

1053
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,560
The next one, Bullbrook West Athens Hill.

1054
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:29,880
And those are the earliest ones.

1055
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:30,760
Those are equivalent.

1056
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,280
If you hear those terms, those are your Clovis-like,

1057
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:35,880
or your Clovis-derived.

1058
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:36,360
Yeah.

1059
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:40,800
And that ranges from 12,900 to 12,200 years ago.

1060
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:41,440
Exactly.

1061
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,440
And then your next ones are your Michonne de Ponset.

1062
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,240
This one kind of cheats because it's just got the one site.

1063
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:49,880
Your Crowfield related.

1064
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,400
Which is the site in southern Ontario, actually.

1065
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:53,920
Yeah.

1066
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,360
The stupe listener will notice it's not in the Maritimes

1067
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:57,920
or in New England.

1068
00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:59,720
And then your Cormier, Nicholas.

1069
00:51:59,720 --> 00:52:02,000
And those are your Folsom-like points,

1070
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:03,320
your Middle Paleo-Indian points.

1071
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,600
And that is ranging from 12,200 to 11,600.

1072
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:11,000
So at the end of this, this is the end of the Middle Paleo-Indian

1073
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,600
period, which is the end of the Younger Dryas as well,

1074
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,880
and also the end of the Pleistocene.

1075
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:18,480
That's right.

1076
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:22,200
And so for, and then we switch to our landslut forms

1077
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:26,040
with no fluting, or occasionally aggressive base.

1078
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,440
Was it aggressively basally thinned?

1079
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:29,880
Fantastic, yep.

1080
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,680
And these are your agate basin related.

1081
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,800
And these refer to San Varni points, which

1082
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,200
are your unflooded or Plano-like points,

1083
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:42,200
if you're thinking about this in a broad, continental term.

1084
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:46,200
For my purposes, I tend to think about fluted point,

1085
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,880
Paleo-Indian, merging the middle and the late,

1086
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:50,120
at the middle and the early.

1087
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,240
And then I tend to think about late Paleo-Indian,

1088
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:55,200
referring to the landsluts.

1089
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,840
And so Gabe, the listener might be wondering,

1090
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,480
why fluted point?

1091
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:01,880
Ken, I thought you'd never ask.

1092
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:06,520
We just leave this here as a pause, right?

1093
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,680
The answer is nobody knows.

1094
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:10,040
This is this.

1095
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,440
So I'm glad you brought that up.

1096
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,280
Nobody knows why fluted point.

1097
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,040
In addition to that, we don't know how exactly

1098
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:20,280
Paleo-Indian's fluted points.

1099
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:25,360
We know that contemporary footnappers can flute points.

1100
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:29,400
They often do it through direct percussion,

1101
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,920
so basically hitting the base of the point hard.

1102
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:37,120
But they also have a variety of other complicated methods.

1103
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,720
I think you've looked into recently, Ken, am I right?

1104
00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:41,800
There's this chest punch method, where

1105
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:46,440
you basically put an anchor, a very long rod, basically,

1106
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:47,160
in your chest.

1107
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,120
And you kind of heave down and try to shove off a point.

1108
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,000
But yeah, for the most part, it basically

1109
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:57,240
takes a lot of prep work, sort of you prepare a very clean

1110
00:53:57,240 --> 00:54:00,280
platform, which is basically you're

1111
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:04,320
setting up a place to make contact between your percusser

1112
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:05,920
and your stone.

1113
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:07,800
Because essentially you have one.

1114
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:08,520
Your percusser.

1115
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:10,120
I'm going to walk you back just for a second.

1116
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:11,800
When you say percusser.

1117
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:13,720
So you're either you're probably

1118
00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:17,800
using a piece of antler in this case,

1119
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,280
or you could use rock as well.

1120
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,080
But in most demonstrations of this,

1121
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:24,520
and most of what I've read about,

1122
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:26,520
is that if you're going to try to flute a point,

1123
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:27,440
you'll probably use antler.

1124
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:33,600
So an antler billet, so a piece of moose or deer antler

1125
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:36,760
that you've carved into with a butt end.

1126
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,360
You'll prepare this platform.

1127
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:41,800
So you're going to prepare a place to strike.

1128
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,080
And you kind of have one go at this,

1129
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,240
which makes it kind of all the more interesting why people

1130
00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:49,400
did this.

1131
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,480
And I think we do we talk about bullbroken here,

1132
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:55,360
but like what they're doing in the circle?

1133
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,040
You know, it's not in our show outline.

1134
00:54:58,040 --> 00:54:59,640
As you can tell, listener, Ken and I

1135
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,760
have carefully prepared the notes for this.

1136
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:05,960
We scanned the same cocktail napkins

1137
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,600
to one another before this.

1138
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:09,800
But no, we don't.

1139
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,720
So you kind of raise this point that you said

1140
00:55:13,720 --> 00:55:14,880
you get one go at it.

1141
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:16,640
It's easy to screw this up, right?

1142
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:22,080
This is contemporary foot nappers report

1143
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,840
that frequently you get this beautiful point.

1144
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,280
And the last step you do is you go to drive this flake

1145
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,560
from base to tip off.

1146
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:34,640
And you snap the thing in two, because it's very hard to do.

1147
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,920
Even with a complicated rig, like the crotch described

1148
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:38,600
that you're going to hit with your chest,

1149
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:40,040
you know, when the point's in a vice,

1150
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,320
it's still pretty easy to break.

1151
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:46,600
And so at bullbrook, which is an important paleo-union

1152
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:50,280
site in Massachusetts, so in the New England Maritimes region.

1153
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,760
And this is, you'll recall, because I know you all

1154
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:54,080
were taking careful notes on this.

1155
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:58,280
This is one of the earlier paleo-union occupations.

1156
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,880
There's this really, really fascinating site.

1157
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:07,320
And this site has really precise spatial patterning.

1158
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,560
It was worked on by Brian Robinson and colleagues.

1159
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:14,120
And they identified that there were essentially

1160
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:19,280
tight areas at this site.

1161
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,440
So walk back one step here.

1162
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,520
First of all, this site was probably an aggregation site,

1163
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:26,360
where groups of families came together.

1164
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,840
And this is due to the large number of probably

1165
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,080
contemporaneously inhabited houses.

1166
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:35,800
And you may be like, well, OK, you just said,

1167
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:37,320
you don't have features.

1168
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:38,320
And that's true.

1169
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:42,120
But what you do get is you get artifact patterning

1170
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,320
in basically round patterns.

1171
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,960
That seems like there were structures around where people

1172
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:48,720
were working on these artifacts.

1173
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:51,680
And these artifact patterns are like, right

1174
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:56,280
in the size of what type of houses

1175
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,720
that you would expect people to live in even later in time.

1176
00:56:59,720 --> 00:57:02,560
So they're four to six meters and around there,

1177
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:04,960
they look like they're basically probably nuclear families

1178
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,360
or maybe a little bit bigger than that in some cases.

1179
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:10,800
And so yeah, it is really interesting

1180
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,080
that this particular site is really fascinating to look at,

1181
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,560
how they've mapped out all this patterning.

1182
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:18,680
Yeah.

1183
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:21,760
And Brian, in a series of articles,

1184
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:27,320
sort of explored why are the activities within this area,

1185
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:34,840
within this aggregation site so seemingly patterned, right?

1186
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,520
So for instance, you get spaces where it seems like people

1187
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:39,600
are fluting points.

1188
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:43,680
You get spaces where it seems like people are using scrapers.

1189
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,120
And so Brian's interpretation of this

1190
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:49,600
using a number of ethnographic analogies

1191
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,560
involve gender, that there were very tightly prescribed

1192
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:53,840
gendered spaces.

1193
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,040
But one of his other, I think, particularly interesting

1194
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,000
hypotheses about this kind of patterning

1195
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,160
was this idea of a fluting shaman.

1196
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:06,320
So that there might actually be, as part of this preparation

1197
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:09,800
for going out hunting, this sort of activity

1198
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:11,800
where the actual fluting of the point

1199
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,400
was an important, basically, ritual activity

1200
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,000
before going on a hunt.

1201
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,680
And I think one thing just about hunter-gatherers in general,

1202
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,680
that's, I find, very intriguing.

1203
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:24,320
And we've talked about this before, Ken,

1204
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:28,800
is that when we think about the hunt, right?

1205
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:30,040
If we think about, if you're going

1206
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:32,800
to just watch an ethnographic documentary,

1207
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,280
the temptation to treat the hunt as a thing in which,

1208
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,920
you know, a bunch of dudes with a spear go out and kill

1209
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:42,520
something is not how actually most hunter-gatherers conceive

1210
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:43,640
of hunting.

1211
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:44,200
Yeah.

1212
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,200
In the ethnographic literature, they mostly

1213
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,880
conceive of hunting as really this much more sort

1214
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:53,760
of ongoing process in which the animals are essentially

1215
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,400
often giving themselves up to the hunter.

1216
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:58,240
And so as a result, that's got all sorts

1217
00:58:58,240 --> 00:58:59,480
of interesting implications.

1218
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,600
And so for the Kree, which is the analogy everyone uses for this,

1219
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:04,400
and the reason that everyone uses this analogy

1220
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:06,600
is because Adrian Tanner wrote a brilliant book called

1221
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:10,200
Bring Home Animals that everybody should read.

1222
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,600
But basically, there are all sorts of things

1223
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:14,240
that happen just on day-to-day life

1224
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:16,280
that you need to worry about to make sure

1225
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,360
that the animals will continue to give themselves up

1226
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:19,040
to the hunter.

1227
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:23,240
So the way in which people organize their houses

1228
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:24,360
is really, really important.

1229
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,400
There's all sorts of gendered patterning about this.

1230
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:29,280
Like, Tanner's got that great diagram.

1231
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:30,800
You probably remember this.

1232
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,920
About you need to be a little bit careful,

1233
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:37,280
because there's all these gender prescriptions about bears.

1234
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,240
And you want to make sure that bears and women,

1235
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,600
because they're both precisely gendered,

1236
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,440
because bears are so gendered in the ethnographic literature,

1237
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,800
you just slide the bear under the tent flap rather than

1238
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,800
through the door, because you don't want women and bears

1239
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:52,960
in the same door.

1240
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:54,400
Once you get the bear in there, you've

1241
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:56,360
got to make sure that different parts of the bear,

1242
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:58,160
the male parts of the bear are aligned,

1243
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:02,160
and the male parts of the tent, the women's parts of the bear

1244
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:03,880
are aligned, the women's parts of the tent.

1245
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,040
You need to be careful not to step over them.

1246
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,000
So there's all this patterning going on.

1247
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,720
And so as a result, you can imagine the situation,

1248
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:14,000
and Brian really lays out this situation.

1249
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,160
Brian's the one who turned me on to Adrian Tanner's book,

1250
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:16,680
actually.

1251
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:19,840
So I've got a tremendous font spot for this whole thing.

1252
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,080
But basically saying that, well, it

1253
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:24,680
would make sense that there would be at a big aggregation site

1254
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:26,240
where everyone's on their best behavior,

1255
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:27,920
because all these families have come together,

1256
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:30,560
and we're hunting all these caribou that probably come

1257
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,880
to this place in a very predictable way.

1258
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:38,800
And so what we're doing is we've really precisely

1259
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:40,280
sorted out how we're going to act.

1260
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:41,880
And that means that this Fluting Shaman thing

1261
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:43,320
needs to be in a particular place,

1262
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:45,560
because we've got to do this right tonight

1263
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:48,680
so that the caribou will behave the way we want them to tomorrow.

1264
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:50,520
Yeah.

1265
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:56,080
You can tell Gabe is the domestic space archaeologist

1266
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:57,240
here on the podcast.

1267
01:00:57,240 --> 01:00:59,520
But that's great.

1268
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:02,200
And actually, it's really important to understand this context.

1269
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,200
And so this is one of the things that I've had a lot of questions

1270
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,000
from my students when they read this article,

1271
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:14,120
is how is it that he can make these interpretations about gender

1272
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:16,560
based on just patterning and stone tools?

1273
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:18,480
And then you have to kind of wind things back,

1274
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:20,000
and you get an opportunity to introduce

1275
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,960
this whole notion of ethnographic analogy

1276
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:24,600
that we use in archaeology that's

1277
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:27,720
sort of, as Gabe has mentioned a few times,

1278
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:31,280
that a lot of what we understand about Piliu Indians

1279
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:36,000
is derived from sort of contemporary and probably

1280
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:40,600
19th and early 20th century ethnographic studies of hunter

1281
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:46,400
gatherers living in cold environments, basically.

1282
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,720
And one place to actually, if you're

1283
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:51,240
thinking about these sorts of topic

1284
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:54,760
studies, a great ethnographic film was available online.

1285
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:56,800
It's from the National Film Board of Canada.

1286
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:00,360
And it's called The Cree Hunters of Mastassany.

1287
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:01,920
Fantastic film.

1288
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:04,280
And I completely recommend it for this.

1289
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:08,000
And actually, you can watch it online now.

1290
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,880
Almost all these NFB films are streamable online.

1291
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:12,400
Yeah.

1292
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,040
And it's just terrific about this stuff.

1293
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:16,640
It's got this great line in it.

1294
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:21,880
One of the things that's going on here is that it's

1295
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:26,040
the shared hunting territory in maybe the 60s and 70s.

1296
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:29,120
And there's all sorts of patterning

1297
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:30,760
about how they handle animal remains.

1298
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:34,800
And so there's this fellow tying up

1299
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:37,280
beaver remains in a tree.

1300
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,800
And the interviewer basically says,

1301
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:41,440
they're talking creeps.

1302
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,480
Why are you doing that?

1303
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:46,600
And he says something like, that's what we've always done.

1304
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:50,360
And I think that's this fantastic idea

1305
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:52,840
that there could be this time depth of this stuff,

1306
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:55,160
but also this fantastically human moment

1307
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:58,520
at which you're trying to reflect on why do we do it this way.

1308
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,200
And the answer is essentially culture.

1309
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:03,640
Jethic is kind of great.

1310
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:04,440
Happy to us?

1311
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:04,960
Yeah.

1312
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:05,680
Traditionally?

1313
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:06,560
Absolutely.

1314
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:07,080
Yeah.

1315
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:13,800
They fantastic.

1316
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,800
And so we should just kind of summarize them maybe quickly

1317
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:20,760
the way in which it seems like Peraevanians are living

1318
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:24,480
in the main Maritimes region before we move on specifically

1319
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:27,160
to New Brunswick, which we're leaving very little time

1320
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:31,400
for New Brunswick, but there's a reason for that.

1321
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:34,280
You'll notice that there's sort of diminishing information

1322
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:35,800
the further north we get.

1323
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:36,480
It's true.

1324
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:37,160
It's true.

1325
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:37,720
It's true.

1326
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:41,200
We've mentioned one site in Nova Scotia

1327
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:44,880
for the up and over effect.

1328
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:48,000
But so what's going on here is we mentioned

1329
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,600
that Peraevanians are probably big game specialists.

1330
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:55,840
So in the far northeast in the New England Maritimes region,

1331
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:58,560
big game equals caribou.

1332
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:01,840
And caribou are really, really fascinating.

1333
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:08,480
And I, Arthur Space, main state archaeologist, important

1334
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:12,680
and really, really interesting work on Peraevanians.

1335
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:15,520
But before that was a kind of caribou hunter

1336
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:18,040
guy in general interested in this.

1337
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:20,360
And I read his book and I thought to myself,

1338
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:24,440
I'd always thought the mystery about caribou hunters

1339
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:25,720
was the people.

1340
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:27,920
It turns out the mystery is also the caribou.

1341
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:31,520
There are all sorts of things we don't know about caribou,

1342
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:35,320
including how exactly they decide when to move,

1343
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:38,280
how they can detect hunters, all these kinds of things.

1344
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:40,560
Caribou herds are more complicated

1345
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:43,240
than I certainly would have thought.

1346
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,120
But one of the things that we know about caribou

1347
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:50,200
is that you can say, well, yeah, they're following caribou,

1348
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:52,240
but they're not really following caribou.

1349
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:53,520
Caribou move too quickly.

1350
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:58,160
So they're intercepting caribou at places they know caribou

1351
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:00,280
are going.

1352
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:02,120
And caribou, just to scale it back here,

1353
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:07,880
caribou are fundamentally migratory and large mammals.

1354
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:15,160
They sort of move in semi-predictable large aggregations

1355
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:19,000
between sort of they sort of have spring and fall movements

1356
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:23,200
to sort of favored patches of lichen, I'm guessing,

1357
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:25,280
and other resources.

1358
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:28,560
Yeah, and potentially to remnant ice caps

1359
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:29,720
where there are no bugs.

1360
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:30,680
Yeah.

1361
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:34,160
This is a place you maybe would intercept them.

1362
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:38,240
Brian Robinson and Bert Pelletier did some work on this

1363
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,480
and basically said, you know, and the premise would

1364
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:45,640
be that at a place like Fort Brook where we're talking about,

1365
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:48,040
the landscape is such that it would be easier

1366
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:50,040
to predict where they were there,

1367
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:52,760
but it would happen less often, whereas you could go further

1368
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:55,320
north and caribou are hanging out

1369
01:05:55,320 --> 01:06:00,840
on these relatively bug-free icy areas where you can have

1370
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:04,760
some degree of success hunting them.

1371
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:10,240
We know that one of the kinds of migrations

1372
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:12,560
that we're talking about for Northeast Pelletier

1373
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:17,080
and even we're about to caveat this are over 400 kilometers.

1374
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:20,240
So we're talking about people moving

1375
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:23,920
over these massive areas on a seasonal basis,

1376
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,480
but, intrepid listener, you may be about to ask,

1377
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:29,080
how do they know that?

1378
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:33,360
And the reason we know that is pegged extensively

1379
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:36,320
to one particular kind of rock.

1380
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:40,160
And that rock is called Monsungan Chirt,

1381
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,840
and it's from far northern Maine.

1382
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:45,680
Have you been to, I don't think?

1383
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:47,200
I haven't been up to Monsungan yet.

1384
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:50,760
I haven't had a chance to take in one of these field trips.

1385
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:54,960
So I went last summer and to give the listener some sense

1386
01:06:54,960 --> 01:07:00,840
of what it's like, you drive to Presgyle, Maine,

1387
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:04,920
the bustling metropolis that is Presgyle, Maine.

1388
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:06,800
Spend the night in Presgyle.

1389
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:10,440
And then you go on for a while and you end up

1390
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:12,120
in basically Ashland, Maine.

1391
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:15,640
You stop in at a mill and you speak to the fellow there

1392
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:17,440
that handles the woods road.

1393
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:20,000
And he then directs you to another person

1394
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:21,480
who handles the woods road.

1395
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:23,640
And then you drive for about six miles

1396
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:25,680
and your cell phone cuts out.

1397
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:29,440
And 50 miles later, you end up at the field camp

1398
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:32,760
where the archeologists are working.

1399
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:36,680
And so we stayed with the Salve Regina Field School, who

1400
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:41,480
were out there for a lot of time in a very rustic location.

1401
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:44,960
And the reason they're there is that Nathaniel Ketchel

1402
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:49,800
and Heather Rockwell just identified the quarry.

1403
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:57,600
A few years ago for the gourmet paleo-Indian shirt.

1404
01:07:57,600 --> 01:07:59,320
And not just paleo-Indian, like the stuff

1405
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:01,000
that you see in the late woodland as well,

1406
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:06,880
like the really nice red variant of this solidified mudstone

1407
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:08,080
that we call shirt.

1408
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:11,000
Yeah, even Ken calls it red and he can't see the color red,

1409
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:16,440
which is the Christmas trees, the phrase they use.

1410
01:08:16,440 --> 01:08:22,280
It's kind of a green, graying your red material often.

1411
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:30,680
And this stuff appears throughout the Maritimes, New England

1412
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:32,440
region.

1413
01:08:32,440 --> 01:08:34,920
So now we add two caveats.

1414
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,360
The first caveat is that Stony Speth at the University

1415
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:42,080
of Michigan has pointed out that the actual amount of shirt

1416
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:44,120
that appears at paleo-Indian sites

1417
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:47,040
is something like two backpacks worth.

1418
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:49,640
So it's not like we've got a huge amount of this stuff.

1419
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:52,080
So it's possible a couple of guys are hauling up

1420
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:53,840
to Monsungan every once in a while

1421
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:58,600
and returning with enough shirt for a generation.

1422
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:01,200
So that's one possibility rather than the whole group's

1423
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:01,680
moving.

1424
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:04,400
We might be having some sort of direct procurement going on.

1425
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:05,240
Yeah.

1426
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:08,240
The other problem is that it's become increasingly apparent

1427
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:10,960
that actually telling Monsungan shirt

1428
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:14,680
from a few varieties of New York shirt is really, really

1429
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:16,920
difficult.

1430
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,240
So there are kinds of Norman-skilled

1431
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:22,600
shirts that look an awful lot like Monsungan shirt.

1432
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:24,480
And you're looking concerned, Ken.

1433
01:09:24,480 --> 01:09:26,880
I hope this isn't too much for you to come out.

1434
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:30,080
This is the XRF study they did a couple of years ago, isn't it?

1435
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:31,520
Yeah, it is.

1436
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:32,240
It's XRF.

1437
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:36,640
It's also just visually the stuff is alarmingly similar.

1438
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:39,840
The mutual colleague and friend of ours,

1439
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:42,480
Zach Singer, who's a peyolianing guy.

1440
01:09:42,480 --> 01:09:43,440
He's not a peyolianing guy.

1441
01:09:43,440 --> 01:09:45,040
He's a peyolianing researcher.

1442
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:49,520
From, and he works in Maryland now,

1443
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:51,480
but did a lot of work in Connecticut.

1444
01:09:51,480 --> 01:09:53,120
Posted, I think, to his Instagram,

1445
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:56,000
a picture from the source Monsungan,

1446
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,160
beside from the source Norman-skill,

1447
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:02,160
and invited the viewer to try to tell which was which.

1448
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:05,400
And it was not comforting for any of us, I don't think.

1449
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:05,800
No.

1450
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:08,040
And this is, I mean, we have the same issues in New Brunswick.

1451
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:11,120
So there's carboniferous shirts from South Central New

1452
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:15,120
Brunswick, the stuff that I study that also occur in northern

1453
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,400
New Brunswick, and in small pieces

1454
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:22,360
look almost indistinguishable from material from Nova Scotia.

1455
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:24,320
Yeah.

1456
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:31,560
And so that's how we interpret this big, long range.

1457
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:35,640
And we've talked about some of the problems with peyolianing sites,

1458
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:37,320
and this continues to be a problem in this area

1459
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:39,640
where they are shallowly buried.

1460
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:43,320
They're often on soils that are deposited by glacial runoff.

1461
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:45,640
There's not many plants during the younger dryests.

1462
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:48,880
And so the soils are probably these like windblown dunes

1463
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:51,160
that made nice sheltered landforms.

1464
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:53,960
And then only later do these get secured by vegetation

1465
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:56,640
once the climate gets warmer.

1466
01:10:56,640 --> 01:10:59,920
And we find peyolianing sites generally

1467
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:01,520
a place where there are good views of what

1468
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:03,320
were water courses back then.

1469
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:07,400
So we've got this complicated model for understanding

1470
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:10,120
peyolianing sites, which is that you need to,

1471
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:12,120
if you're looking at, say, more recent sites,

1472
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:15,160
you can typically say, well, the landscape's about like it was.

1473
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:17,280
It's not really true for peyolianing sites.

1474
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:21,400
You need to think about them in terms of these other factors.

1475
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:21,900
Yeah.

1476
01:11:21,900 --> 01:11:27,400
You need to be sort of a more than casual geologist

1477
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:31,520
to really get at where peyolianing people were living

1478
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:34,000
and have more than just a cursory knowledge

1479
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:37,360
of surfacial geology because a quaternary geology

1480
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:40,320
in particular, so late Pleistocene, early Holocene,

1481
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:42,920
geological processes to really understand

1482
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:46,000
the kinds of landscapes and understand, first of all,

1483
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:46,720
the formation.

1484
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:50,360
And so when these sort of landscapes would be available

1485
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:53,840
and whether they persisted after peyolianing groups

1486
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:54,560
would have been there.

1487
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:56,920
So there are places, for example, where

1488
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:58,400
we talked about the younger dryests.

1489
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:00,960
And there are landscapes in New Brunswick

1490
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:05,040
that would have been ice free when the Paleoindians were

1491
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:06,560
in the region.

1492
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:08,720
But during the younger dryests, or when the Paleoindians

1493
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:11,320
were coming in, I guess, and then during the younger dryests,

1494
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:17,400
for 1,500 years or so, the area was recovered with ice.

1495
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:20,080
And so there's absolutely almost no chance

1496
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:23,760
of finding stuff from that time period in some areas

1497
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:26,320
because I had a geologist explain to me

1498
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:30,920
that if they were here, you'd find it in a fine paste.

1499
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:32,720
In this till layer, basically.

1500
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:37,720
So this stuff would be crushed and ground by a glacier.

1501
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:40,680
And so understanding these past landscapes

1502
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:42,840
is really important for understanding

1503
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:44,360
where Paleoindian people would have lived

1504
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:47,960
and doing the archaeology.

1505
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:50,760
And that massively changing landscape also

1506
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:53,160
creates, I think, one of the most interesting aspects

1507
01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:55,520
of Paleoindian summit, which is that it's

1508
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:58,800
this phenomenon of Paleoindian-like clustering.

1509
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:04,480
And so typically, Paleoindian sites occurring clusters,

1510
01:13:04,480 --> 01:13:08,800
where there are a bunch of sites around one landform,

1511
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:13,040
and the sites don't perfectly overlap.

1512
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:16,520
And so we've talked about one that I worked at, which

1513
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:18,040
is the Lomontaine site.

1514
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:21,280
The Lomontaine site is part of the Mishu cluster, which

1515
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:24,400
is around the Lewiston-Alburn Airport.

1516
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:26,760
This is actually, it turns out that Paleoindian site

1517
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:29,520
locations are also very good for municipal airports.

1518
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:33,440
This is a strange fluke of geology.

1519
01:13:33,440 --> 01:13:38,040
But so there are a series of sites located, basically,

1520
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:39,480
clustered around that airport.

1521
01:13:39,480 --> 01:13:42,960
And they're in the same approximate location,

1522
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,560
but they're a kilometer, half a kilometer apart

1523
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:46,640
from one another.

1524
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:49,480
What it seems like is probably happening

1525
01:13:49,480 --> 01:13:52,400
is that the landscape is changing so rapidly

1526
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:53,760
that there's a bunch of good reasons

1527
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:56,840
to keep coming back to that approximate area.

1528
01:13:56,840 --> 01:14:00,840
But the ideal place to camp will change slightly over time.

1529
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:05,360
And so you end up with these, through a few generations,

1530
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:09,800
you end up with a bunch of sites in approximately the same area.

1531
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:13,080
And because we have such difficulty

1532
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:16,960
with dating these sites, we also have really poor resolution

1533
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:21,360
about how we don't even have sort of generational overlap

1534
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:23,400
in a lot of these dates.

1535
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:28,360
We have ranges of a couple of hundred years in these clusters.

1536
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:30,520
And I guess maybe, me shows a little bit different.

1537
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:32,560
But I think like DeBurt Belmont, they overlap,

1538
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,200
but there's no clear contemporaneity

1539
01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:37,440
other than looking at the types of stone tools

1540
01:14:37,440 --> 01:14:38,280
that they were using.

1541
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:42,720
We can say, well, this fits into a broad period of five

1542
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:44,640
to 600 years when we know these groups were

1543
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:46,800
using this sort of tool.

1544
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:47,400
Yeah.

1545
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:48,880
And in general, I mean, contemporaneity

1546
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:51,800
is really difficult in archaeology

1547
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:54,720
because radio carbonates don't work at the same scale

1548
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:56,960
that hunter-gatherers lived.

1549
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:57,520
Yeah.

1550
01:14:57,520 --> 01:15:03,680
So that'll be a recurring theme in this podcast, I suppose,

1551
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:07,440
or this podcast series.

1552
01:15:07,440 --> 01:15:10,200
And it seems like there are probably also aggregation sites

1553
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:12,480
that occur at places where people would have intercepted

1554
01:15:12,480 --> 01:15:13,080
caribou.

1555
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:17,600
So different family bands coming together

1556
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:19,040
may be to intercept caribou.

1557
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:24,000
And this is in some part a riff on these big Pleistocene kill

1558
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:27,200
sites that we get out west, where groups of paleo-anions came

1559
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:31,640
together to kill a bunch of caribou and process them

1560
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:33,480
and eat a whole bunch of them.

1561
01:15:33,480 --> 01:15:38,000
We get like fulsomes known for this out west.

1562
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:39,880
Like bison kill sites.

1563
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:41,400
Yeah, exactly.

1564
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:43,440
So is this scaled down for caribou?

1565
01:15:43,440 --> 01:15:45,520
That's sort of the model that we have out here.

1566
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:54,760
And then, so that sort of talks about fluted point paleo-anion.

1567
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:58,320
And then there's the big problem that in a cultural historical

1568
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:03,160
term, late paleo-anion happens.

1569
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:06,960
There's the environmental change from the younger dryus

1570
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:09,040
to climate that starts to be much more

1571
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:12,240
similar to what we have now.

1572
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:16,000
And then things change.

1573
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:20,720
And then archaeologists don't know what happens.

1574
01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:22,160
Is that a fair summary?

1575
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:25,400
Yeah, I think it's pretty like people,

1576
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:27,480
they stop fluting their points.

1577
01:16:27,480 --> 01:16:29,520
And then for a while, they make things that sort of look

1578
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:31,320
like fluted points.

1579
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:33,760
And then they start notching their points.

1580
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:39,120
And this all kind of happens somewhere between 11,600

1581
01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:41,920
and 9,000 years ago.

1582
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:45,560
There aren't a ton of sites that we found for around that time

1583
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:47,720
period.

1584
01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:50,960
And yeah, there's a whole lot of ambiguity

1585
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:52,200
about what's happening.

1586
01:16:52,200 --> 01:16:55,120
Is it population change?

1587
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:56,360
Are there new people coming in?

1588
01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:58,520
Or is it just new ideas?

1589
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:04,760
Is it sort of a dramatic response to the fundamental changes

1590
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:05,800
going on around you?

1591
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:08,200
And so people are kind of negotiating

1592
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:10,520
changes in their worlds.

1593
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:17,120
It's a confusing time, archaeologically.

1594
01:17:17,120 --> 01:17:20,120
And for a time, I guess we'll get to this.

1595
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:23,760
We even thought people weren't here for a few thousand years.

1596
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:24,240
That's true.

1597
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:28,160
And that's going to be a big theme next fortnight, I think.

1598
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:30,760
It's going to be this kind of great hiatus,

1599
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:33,960
this idea that there was this big chunk of missing time

1600
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:36,280
in the region.

1601
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:39,320
One thing we do know about late Paleo-Ingian

1602
01:17:39,320 --> 01:17:44,040
is that it appears like things become much more local.

1603
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:46,040
So if the theme of Fluted Point Paleo-Ingian

1604
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:51,480
is a shared continental culture, these big kind of cultures,

1605
01:17:51,480 --> 01:17:54,080
it seems like we start to see more specialization

1606
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:55,080
in late Paleo-Ingian.

1607
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:56,400
Do you think that's fair?

1608
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:56,960
Yeah.

1609
01:17:56,960 --> 01:17:59,480
And I think it's the materials get to be,

1610
01:17:59,480 --> 01:18:02,160
like lithic material gets to be more localized.

1611
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:05,360
I mean, despite this, though, like you know,

1612
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:09,760
Agate Basin style Lancy-Ole points in Alberta look almost

1613
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:16,000
identical to, you know, Michonne or St. Anne Barney

1614
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:19,080
Lancy-Ole points in the New England Maritimes region.

1615
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:19,520
You know?

1616
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:20,280
Yeah.

1617
01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:23,080
We found a Lancy-Ole point in Southern Ontario

1618
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:27,440
that looks almost identical to what you'd see in like New

1619
01:18:27,440 --> 01:18:29,400
England.

1620
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:34,480
So there is still this shared idea of how you make your tools.

1621
01:18:34,480 --> 01:18:36,680
But I guess it's that we're not, you know,

1622
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:39,400
going 400 kilometers or so to get the rock.

1623
01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:39,880
Yeah.

1624
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:41,920
Or only sometimes doing that, I guess.

1625
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:42,760
Yeah.

1626
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:43,240
Yeah.

1627
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:47,960
So should we talk about New Brunswick?

1628
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:48,880
I think we should.

1629
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:49,440
Yeah.

1630
01:18:49,440 --> 01:18:51,360
All right.

1631
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:55,400
The code on late Paleo-Ingian is that the story continues.

1632
01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:56,880
Yeah, exactly.

1633
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,920
And the story continues and it overlap with next week.

1634
01:18:59,920 --> 01:19:02,880
I guess that we can foreshadow that.

1635
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:05,440
That's one of the problems.

1636
01:19:05,440 --> 01:19:10,200
And I'm going to just put a teaser out there.

1637
01:19:10,200 --> 01:19:11,280
People didn't leave.

1638
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:20,720
So we're going to now turn to New Brunswick, which is going

1639
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:23,120
to be a short part of this.

1640
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:27,600
A mutual friend and colleague of ours, Ken, the Emmy Fox,

1641
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:32,840
the great archaeologist from Toronto who works on a lot

1642
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:33,720
of mathematical stuff.

1643
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:35,800
She told me that her partner said

1644
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:39,520
that these are called SODS in the biz.

1645
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:43,640
Like apostrophe S-O-D-E-S.

1646
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:44,680
Rather than Fs.

1647
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:45,680
We've been calling them Fs.

1648
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:48,600
Yeah, but apparently they're SODS.

1649
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:52,720
This is like how I called Instagram the gram for a while.

1650
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:55,560
And I learned that it's actually supposed to be called Insta.

1651
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:57,520
Oh, I've still been doing that wrong, maybe.

1652
01:19:57,520 --> 01:19:58,160
Yeah.

1653
01:19:58,160 --> 01:19:58,800
Yeah.

1654
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:02,040
Anyway, this is the shorter part of the SOD

1655
01:20:02,040 --> 01:20:05,320
or the F or whatever this is.

1656
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:08,200
And so what we should say, I guess,

1657
01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:09,480
is where does New Brunswick fit in this?

1658
01:20:09,480 --> 01:20:15,560
And we basically suspect that New Brunswick is the same

1659
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:20,360
as the New England Maritah's model we've described in general.

1660
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:24,040
For a long time, most of what we knew about New Brunswick,

1661
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:26,960
Peleunions, and this fits with, if you were to say,

1662
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:32,000
what did we know about Maine Peleunions in the 1970s?

1663
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:34,720
We knew that Peleunions were there,

1664
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:36,640
but we knew that mostly from find spots,

1665
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:39,280
which is that people, mostly evocational,

1666
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:41,800
would occasionally find these incredibly diagnostic fluted

1667
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:43,760
points and deport them.

1668
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:48,560
And so this in New Brunswick...

1669
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:52,640
You have a line, actually, that I think we didn't actually

1670
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:53,480
mention at the start.

1671
01:20:53,480 --> 01:20:55,160
So Gabe said diagnostic.

1672
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:58,440
And so when you find a fluted point,

1673
01:20:58,440 --> 01:20:59,840
you have a really great note here

1674
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:04,240
that these are actually hyperdiagnostic.

1675
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:06,040
We talked at the start of the show

1676
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:09,120
that there might actually be another spot in the world where

1677
01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:10,280
people made fluted points.

1678
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:13,400
But if you find a fluted point in North America,

1679
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:17,680
there is no other time period in 13,000 plus years of history

1680
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:19,120
here.

1681
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:22,640
If you find one of these, you're talking very old stuff,

1682
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:25,400
which is really fascinating.

1683
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:27,800
Yeah, the hyperdiagnostic line, I think

1684
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:31,320
that's a Brian Robinson line from a review of archaeology

1685
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:32,160
article.

1686
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:32,640
Oh, nice.

1687
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:33,280
OK.

1688
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:36,360
Yeah, contrasting it with pre-Clovis,

1689
01:21:36,360 --> 01:21:38,040
with what you might expect for pre-Clovis.

1690
01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:39,640
And the premise of the article is

1691
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:43,840
that it's almost unfair to expect that pre-Clovis would

1692
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:46,760
be something equivalent to Clovis,

1693
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:49,680
because Clovis occurs once.

1694
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:54,200
You know, the old phrase, like people

1695
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:55,920
talk about projectile points, is there's only so many ways

1696
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:56,960
to skin a cat.

1697
01:21:56,960 --> 01:22:01,760
And it's true, but they really only skinned it that way

1698
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:04,680
for a little while.

1699
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:09,760
But so we strongly suspect from these fine spots,

1700
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:12,840
just like we did in Maine, that there's

1701
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:16,200
no reason to imagine that paleo-nibroids are

1702
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:17,760
any different than it is anywhere else.

1703
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:20,560
And these fine spots have been at places like Kingsclair,

1704
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:24,480
at Quacko Head, at New Norton Creek,

1705
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:27,120
at the Northwest Mirror Machine.

1706
01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:30,440
You pointed out there's probably a Holcombe-esque point

1707
01:22:30,440 --> 01:22:32,040
in the George Friedrich Cart collection.

1708
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:34,360
And is this maybe wash-demoic?

1709
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:36,520
Yeah, possibly made on carboniferous shirt that

1710
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:40,600
looks like wash-demoic shirt for various reasons, probably not

1711
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:42,680
coming from Belie's Cove.

1712
01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:44,840
Because as I talked about earlier,

1713
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:48,160
Belie's Cove was probably under water at around that time,

1714
01:22:48,160 --> 01:22:51,440
under Glacial Lake Acadia waters, basically.

1715
01:22:51,440 --> 01:22:54,520
But we do know some of my research has indicated

1716
01:22:54,520 --> 01:22:57,320
that there are other places where you could get

1717
01:22:57,320 --> 01:22:59,840
a shirt that looks almost identical to wash-demoic shirt

1718
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:02,200
that would have been above the water at that time.

1719
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:06,120
So maybe on a high point, overlooking a much bigger

1720
01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:07,720
lake at that time in the past.

1721
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:11,840
And yeah, and there's other places like in the Petticoatiac.

1722
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:13,240
What's interesting, too, is if you

1723
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:16,640
look at the patterning of where all these fine spots are found,

1724
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:19,880
they're mostly almost all in the southern part of the province.

1725
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:21,480
I don't think anything's been found

1726
01:23:21,480 --> 01:23:23,920
north of the Northwest Maramoshi,

1727
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:26,120
like the big clear water.

1728
01:23:26,120 --> 01:23:28,560
That's in central New Brunswick.

1729
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:30,040
Do you think that's real patterning,

1730
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:32,040
or do you think that's population?

1731
01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:32,560
I don't know.

1732
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:34,240
I guess it could be a population thing.

1733
01:23:34,240 --> 01:23:36,280
I just mean that if you look at it on a map,

1734
01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:39,040
you've got all the main Paleo-Indian sites,

1735
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:40,720
and then you get DeBurke, and then you've

1736
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:43,200
got a straight line of people finding points

1737
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:44,960
across southern New Brunswick.

1738
01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:47,640
And some of that may be an environmental thing.

1739
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:51,280
I don't know, you definitely had remnant ice

1740
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:53,680
in northern parts of the province,

1741
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:57,200
and certainly ice re-advancing during the Younger Dryas

1742
01:23:57,200 --> 01:24:01,160
down into places like even in Napa Dog and in Juniper area,

1743
01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:04,760
you'd have a nice margin around that area.

1744
01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:08,320
And so there may have been limited space for people

1745
01:24:08,320 --> 01:24:10,560
to be at that time, too.

1746
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:12,400
We just don't have a clear picture.

1747
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:14,800
The listener may have just caught my aspirated yes

1748
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:16,080
there, as promised earlier.

1749
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:18,880
I think that's the good thing.

1750
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:19,440
Take your way.

1751
01:24:19,440 --> 01:24:21,720
Want to practice that one again?

1752
01:24:21,720 --> 01:24:24,080
I think it's part of your residency requirements.

1753
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:35,600
And so when we were in graduate school, 2010 or so.

1754
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:37,880
2010, 2009 to 11.

1755
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:40,080
Is that when Darcy found the Pennfield site?

1756
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:41,480
It was while we were in grad school,

1757
01:24:41,480 --> 01:24:43,640
because I remember taking a road trip down there.

1758
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:44,800
Yes.

1759
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:51,320
And so we're now shifting into, so can I say that we're now

1760
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:57,400
shifting into pretty much the realm of stuff that's not

1761
01:24:57,400 --> 01:25:02,080
published, and we know only by impressions.

1762
01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:05,440
And you listener might wonder what your taxpayer dollars

1763
01:25:05,440 --> 01:25:06,720
are going for.

1764
01:25:06,720 --> 01:25:09,920
And Ken and I might say you would be correct to wonder

1765
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:10,720
about that.

1766
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:12,640
Yeah, there's been some conference papers

1767
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:15,680
and a couple of short reports.

1768
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:22,360
But we haven't seen a big publication on Pennfield

1769
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:23,400
or any of the other.

1770
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:24,760
There was another site, Marysville,

1771
01:25:24,760 --> 01:25:26,400
that was executed a few years ago as well.

1772
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:30,040
It has a short technical report that we can draw some inferences

1773
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:36,120
from, but the big picture is still out there to be said.

1774
01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:38,400
So Pennfield's in Charlotte County, New Brunswick.

1775
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:44,680
So basically, kind of coastal, it's near St. Andrews.

1776
01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:46,640
Excellent pie there, actually.

1777
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:47,120
Oh, is it?

1778
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:48,360
Mackay's pies.

1779
01:25:48,360 --> 01:25:51,680
They have a blueberry stand in Pennfield

1780
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:57,200
that has possibly the best blueberry pies I've ever eaten.

1781
01:25:57,200 --> 01:25:58,040
Holy cow.

1782
01:25:58,040 --> 01:26:00,320
And I've eaten an entire blueberry pie

1783
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:02,680
from Mackay's on the drive between Pennfield and Frederick

1784
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:03,560
Town.

1785
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:05,880
That's impressive.

1786
01:26:05,880 --> 01:26:09,200
I couldn't do that now.

1787
01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:12,240
I find myself more able to do that now than I used to be.

1788
01:26:12,240 --> 01:26:16,840
I'm just less able to fit into my sweater the next day.

1789
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:21,680
So what do we actually know at the Pennfield site?

1790
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:23,480
It's on a high point.

1791
01:26:23,480 --> 01:26:25,520
It's kind of an odd location.

1792
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:28,440
It's not even really all that nice of a location

1793
01:26:28,440 --> 01:26:31,280
for a characteristic site for a paleo-Indian site.

1794
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:36,120
It's not like a big well-drained outwash deposit.

1795
01:26:36,120 --> 01:26:38,520
But it is at a high point and probably would have been fairly

1796
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:43,720
close to the edge of the water at that time.

1797
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:47,800
It is located close to a stream that probably would have been

1798
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:48,760
running.

1799
01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:50,600
It's kind of a deeper gully now.

1800
01:26:53,720 --> 01:26:56,640
There's some local lithic material

1801
01:26:56,640 --> 01:26:59,720
that was available, but probably not used

1802
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:01,520
during paleo-Indian times.

1803
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:03,560
We know that there's a transitional archaic component

1804
01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:05,440
at the site that that local material.

1805
01:27:05,440 --> 01:27:07,560
Which fits with paleo-Indian actually.

1806
01:27:07,560 --> 01:27:08,400
Which does fit with.

1807
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:09,000
Yeah.

1808
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:10,000
Yeah.

1809
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:13,960
So by knowledge of the transitional archaic site,

1810
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:16,640
we know that there's also.

1811
01:27:16,640 --> 01:27:19,320
I don't know in terms of diagnostic tools.

1812
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:22,920
I know that the original Site Find Darcy, I think,

1813
01:27:22,920 --> 01:27:24,880
was walking through an area.

1814
01:27:24,880 --> 01:27:28,920
So this was during the Route 1 bypass.

1815
01:27:28,920 --> 01:27:30,880
So they were twinning the highway between St. John

1816
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:32,680
and St. Stephen.

1817
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:36,960
And basically, the developer had gone out

1818
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:40,200
and had prepped an area that had actually not been surveyed yet.

1819
01:27:40,200 --> 01:27:43,920
And so Darcy Dignum went out, was called up

1820
01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:46,440
to go and survey the area and was walking around.

1821
01:27:46,440 --> 01:27:49,200
And the story goes that he was on his phone.

1822
01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:50,680
With Jesse Webb, wasn't he?

1823
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:51,640
With Jesse Webb.

1824
01:27:51,640 --> 01:27:52,000
Yeah.

1825
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:55,640
And I think she had a curse word or something.

1826
01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:59,800
And under his boot or near his toe,

1827
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:01,360
just before he stepped on there, something

1828
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:03,520
was a Monsungan shirt, Spurred Scraper.

1829
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:04,400
I think that was.

1830
01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:05,360
Isn't that the history?

1831
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:05,960
That's my recollection.

1832
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:06,440
Yeah.

1833
01:28:06,440 --> 01:28:12,120
So like a very diagnostic paleo-Indian artifact

1834
01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:14,960
made on a distinctive fine grain

1835
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:17,320
shirt from northern Maine, which you find on a lot of paleo-Indian

1836
01:28:17,320 --> 01:28:20,360
sites in the Maine Maritimes region.

1837
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:22,680
And certainly a very interesting find.

1838
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:28,920
And there was a fairly large mitigation excavation project

1839
01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:33,880
done there in the subsequent summer put on by the New Brunswick

1840
01:28:33,880 --> 01:28:37,480
Archaeology Branch, the provincial archaeology branch.

1841
01:28:37,480 --> 01:28:39,840
I think that focused mostly on the transitional archaic

1842
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:41,640
component.

1843
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:44,040
The province actually shifted the highway design

1844
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:48,200
so that they were able to avoid the main occupation where

1845
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:50,480
the paleo-Indian site was.

1846
01:28:50,480 --> 01:28:52,840
They also found a Lake Woodland site there as well.

1847
01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:53,400
Oh, interesting.

1848
01:28:53,400 --> 01:28:53,920
I didn't know that.

1849
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:56,680
Ramachur and a small Lake Woodland campsite.

1850
01:28:56,680 --> 01:28:59,280
So an interesting landscape, but certainly one

1851
01:28:59,280 --> 01:29:03,240
that we'll hopefully find out more about in the coming years.

1852
01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:03,880
Yeah.

1853
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:08,560
And we should make clear that Darcy and Jesse and those folks

1854
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:10,440
were just involved in the initial finding of the site,

1855
01:29:10,440 --> 01:29:11,680
not actually the subsequent.

1856
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:13,320
Yeah, not the subsequent excavation.

1857
01:29:13,320 --> 01:29:13,600
Yeah.

1858
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:16,720
And to their credit presented on that at the CAA.

1859
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:20,440
So that is in some sense in the literature.

1860
01:29:20,440 --> 01:29:23,400
And then the only other intact site

1861
01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:26,360
would be the Marysville paleo-Indian site, which

1862
01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:31,160
was also found because of row construction during some work

1863
01:29:31,160 --> 01:29:37,200
route 8 just outside of Marysville a few years back now.

1864
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:38,920
Again, same thing.

1865
01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:41,560
There had been some ground prep work done.

1866
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:45,480
An archaeologist who works in the city was driving by

1867
01:29:45,480 --> 01:29:47,080
and took a look at some backdoor piles

1868
01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:49,400
and noticed some artifacts in them,

1869
01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:51,240
some subsequent work basically determined

1870
01:29:51,240 --> 01:29:56,080
that recovered some scrapers and a denticulate,

1871
01:29:56,080 --> 01:30:00,480
spurred scraper, probably a few other diagnostic artifacts.

1872
01:30:00,480 --> 01:30:03,840
I've looked at four pieces from that assemblage

1873
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:05,440
that appear to be carboniferous chert.

1874
01:30:05,440 --> 01:30:08,320
So another example of what a material that

1875
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:10,120
looks like washed and milk lake chert,

1876
01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:13,400
but in a paleo-Indian context.

1877
01:30:13,400 --> 01:30:16,480
There's some thinking that the site, it's really sandy there.

1878
01:30:16,480 --> 01:30:18,680
And so there's thinking this might have been

1879
01:30:18,680 --> 01:30:23,080
an old beach, probably well-drained beach area

1880
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:25,520
sort of on the margins of Glacier Lake, Acadia.

1881
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:27,240
That's based on local topography

1882
01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:29,920
and some of the geological work.

1883
01:30:29,920 --> 01:30:33,800
But we don't have a whole lot of other.

1884
01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:37,120
I don't know if there's any other excavation that's

1885
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:39,120
gone on in a paleo-Indian site in New Brunswick.

1886
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:39,880
Is there?

1887
01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:40,680
I'm not sure.

1888
01:30:40,680 --> 01:30:41,160
No.

1889
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:44,480
And am I correct that Marysville is not in the literature yet?

1890
01:30:44,480 --> 01:30:45,720
It's excavated by the.

1891
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:49,400
There's a short technical report that the province put out,

1892
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:51,480
but no publication says yet.

1893
01:30:51,480 --> 01:30:51,760
No.

1894
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:52,200
OK, right.

1895
01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:55,880
Yeah, no peer review publications.

1896
01:30:55,880 --> 01:31:00,320
I'm unaware of any others in the province.

1897
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:03,960
So but one of the things this may speak to you actually,

1898
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:08,680
though, is that in places like Maine and the rest of New

1899
01:31:08,680 --> 01:31:12,520
England, one of the real successes,

1900
01:31:12,520 --> 01:31:17,080
I think of government, academic, CRM, and even

1901
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:19,880
public collaboration around archaeological research

1902
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:23,000
has really been to find out much more

1903
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:24,680
about the Paleo-Indian period.

1904
01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:25,160
Yeah.

1905
01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:25,880
Yeah.

1906
01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:29,440
And you know, like the finds of Penfield, for example,

1907
01:31:29,440 --> 01:31:31,120
shifted the way the places that we

1908
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:33,360
were looking for for archaeological sites in CRM

1909
01:31:33,360 --> 01:31:37,560
and New Brunswick, it prompted a shift in the places

1910
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:40,880
that we were required to do meditory testing in,

1911
01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:42,400
or at least recommend testing in.

1912
01:31:42,400 --> 01:31:46,680
So I think having a better sense of where these sites might

1913
01:31:46,680 --> 01:31:50,040
be located and doing a better job of identifying

1914
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:52,960
those sorts of landscapes will certainly

1915
01:31:52,960 --> 01:31:55,520
give us a better sense of a better chance

1916
01:31:55,520 --> 01:31:58,640
to find another one of these sites intact.

1917
01:31:58,640 --> 01:32:00,200
I think that makes a lot of sense.

1918
01:32:00,200 --> 01:32:04,360
And we've mentioned the importance of cultural research

1919
01:32:04,360 --> 01:32:05,720
management for this.

1920
01:32:05,720 --> 01:32:11,880
And some of this is that just that a characteristic of Paleo-Indian

1921
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:14,040
sites is that they tend to be fairly what archaeologists

1922
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:19,240
call low density, which just means not necessarily

1923
01:32:19,240 --> 01:32:20,560
a ton of stuff.

1924
01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:24,000
And so the way you find them is by digging holes

1925
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:28,400
at pretty close intervals, typically at, say, five

1926
01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:31,120
or even less, actually, sometimes at 2 and 1 half meter

1927
01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:33,960
intervals in high probability areas for Paleo-Indians.

1928
01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:37,000
And so that is not if you're a cultural research management

1929
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:39,320
archaeologist, what you want to explain to your client

1930
01:32:39,320 --> 01:32:42,600
that you're going to dig at minute intervals

1931
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:45,400
across this landform.

1932
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:48,400
And so much of the work in Paleo-Indians and New England

1933
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:51,400
has been through those collaborations I just mentioned.

1934
01:32:51,400 --> 01:32:55,040
And some of that is actually then used

1935
01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:58,800
a vocational archaeologist as well, who are basically

1936
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:01,400
having an awareness of these things

1937
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:04,480
and who then have an opportunity to be engaged in mitigating

1938
01:33:04,480 --> 01:33:06,360
or even identifying Paleo-Indian sites.

1939
01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:09,320
And I just wanted to flag two programs that I think

1940
01:33:09,320 --> 01:33:11,240
are the kinds of things we should be thinking about here

1941
01:33:11,240 --> 01:33:12,680
in Canada.

1942
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:15,400
One of these is the Maryland Fluted Point Survey.

1943
01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:19,160
The other is the New York Paleo-Indian Database project.

1944
01:33:19,160 --> 01:33:22,440
These are projects that avocationalists report back,

1945
01:33:22,440 --> 01:33:25,920
especially from farmers fields, about Paleo-Indian artifacts

1946
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:27,920
they maybe have found.

1947
01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:30,600
And it's this great project in each case

1948
01:33:30,600 --> 01:33:34,600
from by government archaeologist John Lothrop in New York,

1949
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:36,760
Zach Singer in Maryland, who's the state archaeologist

1950
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:40,240
in Maryland, John Lothrop's the New York State Museum

1951
01:33:40,240 --> 01:33:40,960
archaeologist.

1952
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:44,880
And they go out when one of these artifacts is reported,

1953
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:47,400
and they go out with a high resolution GPS

1954
01:33:47,400 --> 01:33:50,200
and work with the avocational archaeologists

1955
01:33:50,200 --> 01:33:52,120
to record the location.

1956
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:54,360
The avocational archaeologists access to those data.

1957
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:58,040
And to my mind, they're really fantastic ways

1958
01:33:58,040 --> 01:34:03,360
to include the avocational community as peers

1959
01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:04,600
in this research.

1960
01:34:04,600 --> 01:34:06,080
And as a result, these two states

1961
01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:10,680
have got really good management of that time period

1962
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:13,560
and are getting really great resolution on that time period.

1963
01:34:13,560 --> 01:34:14,320
Yeah.

1964
01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:16,480
And if you look at, if you scale a little bit further,

1965
01:34:16,480 --> 01:34:18,600
there's PIDBA, which is the Paleo-Indian Database

1966
01:34:18,600 --> 01:34:19,640
of the Americas.

1967
01:34:19,640 --> 01:34:21,640
Which so like, it's funny because we

1968
01:34:21,640 --> 01:34:23,480
talked about Paleo-Indian research kind

1969
01:34:23,480 --> 01:34:24,720
of being the succession, right?

1970
01:34:24,720 --> 01:34:28,120
It's also one of the very few kind of big data enterprises

1971
01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:30,880
in North American archaeology.

1972
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:37,200
And so PIDBA, which I'm at a loss to remember who's

1973
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:38,640
the spearhead behind this.

1974
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:39,640
I can't die.

1975
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:40,760
Is it Meltzer?

1976
01:34:40,760 --> 01:34:41,720
It sounds like a Meltzer.

1977
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:44,200
Oh, it's David Anderson, University Tennessee.

1978
01:34:44,200 --> 01:34:44,680
Yeah.

1979
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:47,800
So he's a fairly famous Southeast archaeologist

1980
01:34:47,800 --> 01:34:51,280
and a true georchaeologist in every sense of the word.

1981
01:34:51,280 --> 01:34:55,200
But basically, PIDBA aggregates Paleo-Indian data

1982
01:34:55,200 --> 01:34:56,320
from across the continent.

1983
01:34:56,320 --> 01:34:57,800
And in particular, it has like tracked,

1984
01:34:57,800 --> 01:35:01,600
you can pull up this great map that they have of fluted points

1985
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:05,200
across North America 13,000 years ago, whatever, right?

1986
01:35:05,200 --> 01:35:07,160
And a testament to the work that's

1987
01:35:07,160 --> 01:35:09,440
going on in Eastern North America and in places

1988
01:35:09,440 --> 01:35:13,920
like Maryland and New York is the incredibly dense clustering

1989
01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:16,560
of fluted points in Eastern North America, which

1990
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:19,120
has prompted people as early as the 50s

1991
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:23,320
to speculate that Clovis maybe has this Eastern origin as opposed

1992
01:35:23,320 --> 01:35:26,080
to origins in the West.

1993
01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:28,440
But I think when you look at this,

1994
01:35:28,440 --> 01:35:31,440
it's maybe a function more of like there's

1995
01:35:31,440 --> 01:35:35,520
a lot more people and a lot more densely occupied landscapes

1996
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:36,840
in the Eastern part of the continent.

1997
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:41,800
But it is fascinating to see how it

1998
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:44,840
maps out on a continental scale.

1999
01:35:44,840 --> 01:35:47,800
We're kind of scaling up thinking about the scale of Clovis,

2000
01:35:47,800 --> 01:35:50,440
for example, when you're looking at.

2001
01:35:50,440 --> 01:35:53,880
You can see little dots of Debert up in the Northeast tip

2002
01:35:53,880 --> 01:35:56,800
of this, and then you see these clusters all around the rest

2003
01:35:56,800 --> 01:35:57,520
of the continent.

2004
01:35:57,520 --> 01:35:58,400
So pretty neat.

2005
01:35:58,400 --> 01:35:58,900
Yeah.

2006
01:35:58,900 --> 01:35:59,400
[?].

2007
01:35:59,400 --> 01:35:59,900
[?].

2008
01:35:59,900 --> 01:36:00,400
[?].

2009
01:36:00,400 --> 01:36:00,900
[?].

2010
01:36:00,900 --> 01:36:01,400
[?].

2011
01:36:01,400 --> 01:36:01,900
[?].

2012
01:36:01,900 --> 01:36:02,400
[?].

2013
01:36:02,400 --> 01:36:02,900
[?].

2014
01:36:02,900 --> 01:36:03,400
[?].

2015
01:36:03,400 --> 01:36:03,900
[?].

2016
01:36:03,900 --> 01:36:04,400
[?].

2017
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:04,900
[?].

2018
01:36:04,900 --> 01:36:05,400
[?].

2019
01:36:05,400 --> 01:36:05,900
[?].

2020
01:36:05,900 --> 01:36:06,400
[?].

2021
01:36:06,400 --> 01:36:24,080
So are we looking at a half-finished part of Corva-Ciel, Ken, and are we on to hit pieces?

2022
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:25,080
I think we are.

2023
01:36:25,080 --> 01:36:26,080
Yeah.

2024
01:36:26,080 --> 01:36:30,360
Well, and we should also say, so we invite the listener to email in if they have helpful

2025
01:36:30,360 --> 01:36:35,200
suggestions on quality control on this podcast.

2026
01:36:35,200 --> 01:36:39,400
We are happy to respond to the listener.

2027
01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:40,400
Yeah.

2028
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:41,800
Happy to have listener mail.

2029
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:49,440
You might even win the evening on the Merrimack just by becoming our first listener mail.

2030
01:36:49,440 --> 01:36:50,440
It's true.

2031
01:36:50,440 --> 01:36:55,440
You could be having an iced-dunk at donuts in 15 degrees centigrade weather while we

2032
01:36:55,440 --> 01:36:57,560
overlook a bridge apartment.

2033
01:36:57,560 --> 01:37:05,920
But the hit piece I've got this week is the main archaeology newsletter, and that is the

2034
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:08,720
newsletter of the main archaeological society.

2035
01:37:08,720 --> 01:37:18,320
And the main archaeology society is probably one of the best bargains in memberships that

2036
01:37:18,320 --> 01:37:20,000
you could possibly have.

2037
01:37:20,000 --> 01:37:24,800
If you're interested in New Brunswick archaeology, that may sound counterintuitive, but it's nearby.

2038
01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:33,520
They do presentations twice a year, and sometimes actually in collaboration with the Association

2039
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:36,080
of Professional Archaeologists in New Brunswick.

2040
01:37:36,080 --> 01:37:37,840
Membership is extremely inexpensive.

2041
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:40,720
I can't remember how inexpensive it is on top of my head.

2042
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:42,920
It's something like $10 for a student.

2043
01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:43,920
Yeah.

2044
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:44,920
American dollars.

2045
01:37:44,920 --> 01:37:46,880
And it's not much more for professionals either.

2046
01:37:46,880 --> 01:37:48,240
No, it really isn't.

2047
01:37:48,240 --> 01:37:50,440
A very professionally done journal.

2048
01:37:50,440 --> 01:37:52,440
I really can't recommend it enough.

2049
01:37:52,440 --> 01:37:55,400
I also have a publication series.

2050
01:37:55,400 --> 01:37:58,920
I'm showing actually the cover of this, and then I realized after I was doing that that

2051
01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:02,920
we don't actually show our listeners the video of these podcasts.

2052
01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:04,360
No, not yet.

2053
01:38:04,360 --> 01:38:05,360
We might something.

2054
01:38:05,360 --> 01:38:06,360
Not yet.

2055
01:38:06,360 --> 01:38:07,360
We record these for posterity.

2056
01:38:07,360 --> 01:38:08,360
We do.

2057
01:38:08,360 --> 01:38:09,360
We do.

2058
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:14,640
But I wanted to draw in addition to the bulletin, which is the journal that they do, they do

2059
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:16,720
a newsletter.

2060
01:38:16,720 --> 01:38:24,640
There's an interesting section of the newsletter called the Odd Artifact with Dr. Arthur Spiece.

2061
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:29,320
Arts the State Archaeologist in Maine.

2062
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:35,120
Just one of these kind of model old guard New England State Archaeologists, super high

2063
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:39,800
productivity, super engaged with the discipline.

2064
01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:45,440
And as we mentioned, I think earlier, a very important Pedro Indian researcher.

2065
01:38:45,440 --> 01:38:51,480
But this is an interesting article about, or it's interesting blurb really, about incised

2066
01:38:51,480 --> 01:38:56,680
pebbles from a site at the Waterville Winslow Bridge.

2067
01:38:56,680 --> 01:39:04,400
And in re-boxing these artifacts from a previous project, I came across this and thought it

2068
01:39:04,400 --> 01:39:05,400
was worthy of a blurb.

2069
01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:10,240
There's some analog to these actually in New Brunswick at the Holtz Point site in coastal

2070
01:39:10,240 --> 01:39:11,240
New Brunswick.

2071
01:39:11,240 --> 01:39:16,720
So you and Arthur Anderson were looking into these not too long ago, right?

2072
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:18,280
We were looking at the region.

2073
01:39:18,280 --> 01:39:21,400
And so there's, we photograph them.

2074
01:39:21,400 --> 01:39:22,800
But yeah, they're super cool.

2075
01:39:22,800 --> 01:39:25,400
They're these incised pebbles.

2076
01:39:25,400 --> 01:39:30,280
And then the other article in here to check out is Sarah Loftus at the Northeast Archaeological

2077
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:34,280
Research Center in Farmington.

2078
01:39:34,280 --> 01:39:38,920
Has written a short piece on construction monitoring in downtown Portland, Maine.

2079
01:39:38,920 --> 01:39:46,360
Yeah, and it's even got the obligatory, every archaeological monitoring project involves

2080
01:39:46,360 --> 01:39:50,320
finding one creepy looking doll and or figurine.

2081
01:39:50,320 --> 01:39:52,480
And this has a one.

2082
01:39:52,480 --> 01:39:53,480
Not far off the mark.

2083
01:39:53,480 --> 01:39:56,840
Yeah, yeah, no, this one's called Frozen Charlotte.

2084
01:39:56,840 --> 01:40:03,280
And so I encourage the listener to check out this, the most recent newsletter of the Maine

2085
01:40:03,280 --> 01:40:04,920
Arc Society.

2086
01:40:04,920 --> 01:40:06,360
That's excellent.

2087
01:40:06,360 --> 01:40:11,200
And I think the only the only hit piece I have to highlight is that for those of you

2088
01:40:11,200 --> 01:40:17,160
in New Brunswick who are interested in archaeology and are interested in taking in a full weekend

2089
01:40:17,160 --> 01:40:23,640
of archaeology and experience, member two First Nation is going to be co-hosting the

2090
01:40:23,640 --> 01:40:28,200
Canadian Archaeological Association annual meeting this year.

2091
01:40:28,200 --> 01:40:30,520
This will be hosted in member two Nova Scotia.

2092
01:40:30,520 --> 01:40:35,760
So member two First Nation is sort of embedded within the municipal limits of Sydney, Nova

2093
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:37,280
Scotia.

2094
01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:40,280
That conference runs from May 3 to 7.

2095
01:40:40,280 --> 01:40:46,560
You can find out more information about the conference itself on Canadianarchaeology.com

2096
01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:51,480
slash CAA slash annual dash meeting.

2097
01:40:51,480 --> 01:40:56,720
And there's information in there about if you have a paper you might want to submit a

2098
01:40:56,720 --> 01:40:58,640
session you might want to host.

2099
01:40:58,640 --> 01:41:02,840
Or if you are just a member of the public looking to attend for a day or two.

2100
01:41:02,840 --> 01:41:16,240
It looks like they have daily rates starting at as little as $50 for students or non archaeologists

2101
01:41:16,240 --> 01:41:20,720
as low as $15 or less dollars.

2102
01:41:20,720 --> 01:41:24,120
So come join us and member two Gabe and I will be there.

2103
01:41:24,120 --> 01:41:27,880
We might even be hosting our first live podcast.

2104
01:41:27,880 --> 01:41:29,640
Would that be a?

2105
01:41:29,640 --> 01:41:34,160
I think we were going to try to do some kind of live soad.

2106
01:41:34,160 --> 01:41:35,160
Yes.

2107
01:41:35,160 --> 01:41:36,160
From member two.

2108
01:41:36,160 --> 01:41:38,920
I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with that terminology.

2109
01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:42,280
It makes me a little uncomfortable as well.

2110
01:41:42,280 --> 01:41:47,160
But actually since you mentioned the live podcast we should say we're also we're going to start

2111
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:51,160
trying to plug in some special apps perhaps the fill in the in between.

2112
01:41:51,160 --> 01:41:54,280
So we've got some some ideas for that.

2113
01:41:54,280 --> 01:41:55,280
Yeah.

2114
01:41:55,280 --> 01:42:00,360
So what you might find in this episode is by the time we do all the editing you might

2115
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:04,480
get a first glimpse at this this week and you might get the part two next week because

2116
01:42:04,480 --> 01:42:09,640
we're we're clocking it at close to two hours tonight and and I'm not sure if I'm not sure

2117
01:42:09,640 --> 01:42:11,720
if the listeners are ready for that yet.

2118
01:42:11,720 --> 01:42:18,960
So well the I feel like this my my partner in when she was in medical school would listen

2119
01:42:18,960 --> 01:42:23,200
to some of the recordings of the lectures and there were probably some lectures that

2120
01:42:23,200 --> 01:42:28,920
just sounded a little better at 1.5 speed that might be us.

2121
01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:30,640
That's how I listen when I'm editing actually.

2122
01:42:30,640 --> 01:42:31,640
Oh fantastic.

2123
01:42:31,640 --> 01:42:35,040
I got a fast forward to the parts where I know we need to we need to clip.

2124
01:42:35,040 --> 01:42:36,040
Yeah.

2125
01:42:36,040 --> 01:42:40,360
Well speaking of clipping can I think we're at a half a half finished bottle of Corvacea

2126
01:42:40,360 --> 01:42:45,760
and I think we should say goodbye to listener until our next fortnight is passed.

2127
01:42:45,760 --> 01:42:46,760
Yeah.

2128
01:42:46,760 --> 01:42:49,120
And so thank you all for listening again.

2129
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:55,240
Please don't forget to subscribe or follow us on whichever your favorite podcasting platform

2130
01:42:55,240 --> 01:43:01,760
is and we look forward to hearing from you our first listener mail.

2131
01:43:01,760 --> 01:43:06,560
We'll talk to you soon listener.

2132
01:43:06,560 --> 01:43:20,800
OK.

2133
01:43:20,800 --> 01:43:28,700
I