WEBVTT 00:00:00.780 --> 00:00:03.459 Hello, I'm James Cridland, the radio futurologist, 00:00:03.459 --> 00:00:07.059 and this is Radioland, my weekly radio industry 00:00:07.059 --> 00:00:10.900 trends newsletter, which is also a podcast. And 00:00:10.900 --> 00:00:12.679 it's a podcast that I don't edit. Sorry about 00:00:12.679 --> 00:00:16.120 that. And we're sponsored by RSS .com, podcast 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:19.179 hosting that's actually free. You can start your 00:00:19.179 --> 00:00:21.800 podcast for free with RSS .com with unlimited 00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:24.879 episodes, automatic distribution to popular listening 00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:28.250 apps. and detailed analytics from day one. You 00:00:28.250 --> 00:00:32.750 can learn more at rss .com. Now, one of Australia's 00:00:32.750 --> 00:00:35.990 biggest radio shows, Kyle and Jackie O, has ended. 00:00:36.630 --> 00:00:39.390 Tuesday's announcement to the ASX, the Australian 00:00:39.390 --> 00:00:42.770 stock market, makes it clear that this is no 00:00:42.770 --> 00:00:46.409 stunt. The show is now off the air. Kent Small 00:00:46.409 --> 00:00:48.950 is doing the breakfast show in both Sydney and 00:00:48.950 --> 00:00:50.909 Melbourne, although this is Australian radio, 00:00:51.009 --> 00:00:53.390 so he has to have a nickname, which is Smallsy, 00:00:53.490 --> 00:00:56.380 because of course it is. Employment lawyers will 00:00:56.380 --> 00:00:59.600 now be involved in two of the biggest media legal 00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:03.399 cases in the country as things begin to get messy. 00:01:03.899 --> 00:01:07.260 Jackie O. Henderson is now saying that she didn't 00:01:07.260 --> 00:01:10.480 quit or resign in a statement that perhaps pointedly 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:14.200 doesn't mention Kyle's name once. Kyle, who has 00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:17.700 also taken time away from TV duties, is also 00:01:17.700 --> 00:01:21.379 reported to be priming his lawyers for a reported 00:01:21.379 --> 00:01:25.299 $88 million. potentially arguing that a similar 00:01:25.299 --> 00:01:28.379 argument on air last year wasn't treated as serious 00:01:28.379 --> 00:01:31.640 by ARN. His whole show was based on controversy 00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:34.859 and a slightly misguided view, in my view, that 00:01:34.859 --> 00:01:38.019 ARN's censors should have prevented the argument 00:01:38.019 --> 00:01:40.659 going out. Well, there's plenty more informed 00:01:40.659 --> 00:01:43.719 coverage in the Game Changers radio podcast. 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:48.200 Now, this may look like a peculiarly Australian 00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:52.040 news story, but actually, I think it raises questions 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:55.280 for radio people everywhere. And here are just 00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:59.060 nine of them. Question one. Well, Kyle and Jackie 00:01:59.060 --> 00:02:02.760 O were on a massive pay packet reported to be 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:06.579 $200 million for 10 years, described by one radio 00:02:06.579 --> 00:02:09.900 executive as insanity. That was signed at the 00:02:09.900 --> 00:02:11.979 top of the commercial radio wave a few years 00:02:11.979 --> 00:02:14.159 ago, but the industry has since seen a decline 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:17.500 in revenue. And this contract seems entirely 00:02:17.500 --> 00:02:21.099 unrealistic now. You'd suspect that ARN are pleased 00:02:21.099 --> 00:02:24.439 to have an excuse to terminate the show. To sign 00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:27.520 up for a 10 -year contract in this media environment 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:31.360 seems careless. So question one, how long are 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:34.909 your contracts? That guaranteed income for Carl 00:02:34.909 --> 00:02:37.830 and Jackie O probably made them lazy and disinterested 00:02:37.830 --> 00:02:39.789 in staying at the top of their game, and there 00:02:39.789 --> 00:02:43.030 is considerable precedent for this in the UK. 00:02:43.129 --> 00:02:46.909 Chris Evans, both on BBC Radio 1 and again on 00:02:46.909 --> 00:02:49.689 the original Virgin Radio, clearly went through 00:02:49.689 --> 00:02:53.129 a period of laziness and disinterest, which cost 00:02:53.129 --> 00:02:56.689 him his job on both stations. Most creative people 00:02:56.689 --> 00:02:59.610 need to feel challenged to get the most out of 00:02:59.610 --> 00:03:02.719 them. So by offering them so much money, $50 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:06.639 ,000 per show, it also meant that they were less 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:09.500 hungry to perform well. They earned so much money, 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:12.219 they just needed to turn up, not to be successful. 00:03:12.620 --> 00:03:15.879 So question two, how do you pay your creative 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:19.500 people? It's also reported that the $200 million 00:03:19.500 --> 00:03:23.439 contract gave all creative control... to Kyle. 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:27.460 So ARN were unable to control the content of 00:03:27.460 --> 00:03:30.199 the show. Now, again, this is similar to Chris 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:33.819 Evans, who, as detailed in the Breaking Breakfast 00:03:33.819 --> 00:03:37.520 podcast, insisted that he was in charge of the 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:40.860 content of his show. A radio licence holder needs 00:03:40.860 --> 00:03:44.340 control of its output. Now, ARN put two sensors 00:03:44.340 --> 00:03:47.319 on the show, ostensibly to stop anything bad 00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:50.039 going out, but quite what you can do with a 30 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:53.159 -second delay is anyone's guess. So question 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:57.280 three, who is in control? At the same time as 00:03:57.280 --> 00:03:59.919 Jackie Henderson signed her $200 million contract, 00:04:00.340 --> 00:04:03.500 she also started doing her own podcast called 00:04:03.500 --> 00:04:06.159 Her Best Life, co -hosted by her talent manager 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:09.340 since 2022, Gemma O 'Neill, as part of a new 00:04:09.340 --> 00:04:12.199 venture called Besties. She left that in January. 00:04:12.580 --> 00:04:15.000 Now, I think it's naive to claim that these shows 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:17.399 were competing for audience, as I've heard some 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:20.060 say this week, but the new project was certainly 00:04:20.060 --> 00:04:23.759 competing for Jackie and Gemma's attention. When 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:28.100 does a side project derail the main job, is my 00:04:28.100 --> 00:04:32.519 question four. The ACMA, Australia's media regulator, 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:35.899 is relatively toothless in what it can do. It 00:04:35.899 --> 00:04:38.459 spent the last year investigating the output 00:04:38.459 --> 00:04:41.470 from Kyle and Jackie O, but still, hasn't actually 00:04:41.470 --> 00:04:45.509 issued any licence changes or fines in spite 00:04:45.509 --> 00:04:48.730 of hearing from ARN more than three months ago. 00:04:49.269 --> 00:04:51.589 Now, in my view, there is a question over whether 00:04:51.589 --> 00:04:54.629 the ACMA is doing its legal duty under broadcast 00:04:54.629 --> 00:04:57.689 law. I've got a Freedom of Information request 00:04:57.689 --> 00:05:00.610 out for ARN's representation, which you would 00:05:00.610 --> 00:05:03.769 assume would be public. So my question five, 00:05:03.910 --> 00:05:06.850 what is ACMA doing and who should resign from 00:05:06.850 --> 00:05:10.970 there? The mad fudging witches. that's not their 00:05:10.970 --> 00:05:13.829 real name, have been campaigning for a long while 00:05:13.829 --> 00:05:17.350 against advertisers who fund the show in a campaign 00:05:17.350 --> 00:05:20.810 called Vile Kyle. And their website, I mean, 00:05:20.829 --> 00:05:22.810 if you're going to use the F word in the title, 00:05:22.930 --> 00:05:25.689 then really you don't have much of a leg to stand 00:05:25.689 --> 00:05:27.810 on in terms of calling other people vile. But 00:05:27.810 --> 00:05:30.990 anyway, their website lists 48 advertisers who 00:05:30.990 --> 00:05:33.430 they say they've successfully convinced to stop 00:05:33.430 --> 00:05:36.329 advertising in the show. There's no doubt that 00:05:36.329 --> 00:05:39.500 this has hurt ARN's revenue. Now, this group 00:05:39.500 --> 00:05:42.500 has been dismissed by many in the industry, but 00:05:42.500 --> 00:05:45.240 I don't think it should be. People, power matters. 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:49.939 So question six, how brand safe is your programming? 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:54.319 Carl and Jackie O started simulcasting the Sydney 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:56.980 show into Melbourne last year. Making the show 00:05:56.980 --> 00:05:59.720 national was the only real way that ARN could 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:03.139 ever hope to recoup some of the costs. But that 00:06:03.139 --> 00:06:06.560 has been an abject failure. Some industry pundits 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:08.620 will tell you that it shows that radio needs 00:06:08.620 --> 00:06:11.620 to be local to succeed. Others will tell you 00:06:11.620 --> 00:06:14.319 that it was just a bad show and audiences in 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:16.420 Melbourne were not familiar with the type of 00:06:16.420 --> 00:06:19.040 PURAL programming that Carl and Jackie O have 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:21.740 put out for years in Sydney. I think it was the 00:06:21.740 --> 00:06:25.100 latter. And I wonder, question seven, how important 00:06:25.100 --> 00:06:29.779 is local? The biggest radio star that ARN now 00:06:29.779 --> 00:06:32.800 has is, with all due respect to Kent Smallsy 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:35.560 Small, The breakfast host for Gold, Christian 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:38.500 O 'Connell. He's doing a breakfast show in Melbourne 00:06:38.500 --> 00:06:41.980 and now in Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth. 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:44.500 He's the number one in Melbourne and the exact 00:06:44.500 --> 00:06:47.680 opposite of the crassness and lewd output from 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:51.079 Kyle. He's a warm, professional presenter with 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:54.660 a strong work ethic and a real hunger to succeed. 00:06:55.470 --> 00:06:58.350 Its first numbers come out on March 19th, Survey 00:06:58.350 --> 00:07:00.990 1 always being an unusual one in Australia, being 00:07:00.990 --> 00:07:03.209 six weeks long rather than the last two surveys 00:07:03.209 --> 00:07:05.829 mushed together, as the rest of the year is. 00:07:06.389 --> 00:07:09.670 Sydney's numbers will be keenly watched. So will 00:07:09.670 --> 00:07:12.730 the Brit teach the Aussies a thing or two, is 00:07:12.730 --> 00:07:16.930 my question eight. And what is KISS if it isn't 00:07:16.930 --> 00:07:19.810 Kyle and Jackie O? Some industry pundits have 00:07:19.810 --> 00:07:22.470 suggested that the brand is so closely aligned 00:07:22.470 --> 00:07:25.079 with Kyle and Jackie O, that it needs an entire 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:28.600 reboot. What's clear... is that in most cities, 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:31.560 Kiss's top 40 format is a highly competitive 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:35.220 space, with Nova and SCA's hit stations also 00:07:35.220 --> 00:07:38.399 fighting for the audience, which is a much smaller 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:42.459 audience in radio these days. Gold operates in 00:07:42.459 --> 00:07:45.240 a space that's much easier to own, with many 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:47.980 more potential listeners. And I've long argued 00:07:47.980 --> 00:07:50.740 that in Brisbane, and who knows, perhaps in Adelaide 00:07:50.740 --> 00:07:53.660 and Perth as well, Kiss should move to digital 00:07:53.660 --> 00:07:58.160 only, and 97 .3 be used for gold. gold. ARN would 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:02.339 be fools not to do that. So my final question, 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:05.360 question nine, how closely aligned is your station 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:09.060 brand to your biggest star? And what would happen 00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:12.920 if they leave? It's a fascinating time in Australian 00:08:12.920 --> 00:08:14.959 radio, but there again, it's a fascinating time 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:18.120 in radio overall, and well worth keeping watch. 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:22.319 Elsewhere in radio this week, the BBC appears 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:25.060 to have pulled its Google Speaker Action, or 00:08:25.060 --> 00:08:27.170 whatever you call these things. making it impossible 00:08:27.170 --> 00:08:30.689 to listen to BBC World Service. From Australia, 00:08:30.870 --> 00:08:33.350 Hey Google, play BBC World Service now seems 00:08:33.350 --> 00:08:36.850 to default to a random American radio station's 00:08:36.850 --> 00:08:40.350 overnight feed. Now that always used to go via 00:08:40.350 --> 00:08:43.070 a thing branded on the screen with BBC Sounds, 00:08:43.169 --> 00:08:47.289 then a thing just branded BBC. I mean, you know, 00:08:47.370 --> 00:08:49.330 it's fine. It's not like there's a new world 00:08:49.330 --> 00:08:52.490 war or anything. In the US, one of the largest 00:08:52.490 --> 00:08:54.950 radio operators, Cumulus Media, has filed for 00:08:54.950 --> 00:08:57.029 bankruptcy. The company which owns the Cumulus 00:08:57.029 --> 00:08:59.909 podcast network and Westwood One is trying to 00:08:59.909 --> 00:09:03.169 eliminate around $600 million worth of debt. 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:06.580 It'll continue operating under Chapter 11 protection 00:09:06.580 --> 00:09:09.559 in the meantime. Competitors iHeartMedia filed 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:13.059 for bankruptcy in March 2018. Odyssey filed for 00:09:13.059 --> 00:09:16.360 bankruptcy in January 2024. And Cumulus itself 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:19.220 last filed for bankruptcy less than 10 years 00:09:19.220 --> 00:09:24.269 ago in November 2017. In pod news, I love writing 00:09:24.269 --> 00:09:26.669 about the history of podcasting. It's a 21 -year 00:09:26.669 --> 00:09:29.269 -old industry. It's got surprisingly little information 00:09:29.269 --> 00:09:32.049 about the more esoteric parts of its history. 00:09:32.210 --> 00:09:34.230 So I'm very proud of a new article that I've 00:09:34.230 --> 00:09:37.649 just been writing about Google Listen. Now, Google 00:09:37.649 --> 00:09:40.970 Listen predated Apple Podcasts by three years 00:09:40.970 --> 00:09:45.590 as a phone app, and by all accounts, did incredibly 00:09:45.590 --> 00:09:48.289 well as well. But of course, Google being Google, 00:09:48.309 --> 00:09:50.250 they had to... close the thing down. Anyway, 00:09:50.330 --> 00:09:52.889 you'll find that linked from my newsletter at 00:09:52.889 --> 00:09:56.509 radiolad .email. Something I missed in Brisbane 00:09:56.509 --> 00:09:59.250 until I was driving past their studios earlier 00:09:59.250 --> 00:10:02.610 on today, Christian broadcaster Family 96 .5 00:10:02.610 --> 00:10:08.870 or 965. Is it 965? 96 .5? Anyway, it's now called 00:10:08.870 --> 00:10:13.210 Rise 96 .5. So they've got rid of Family, which 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:15.850 is a pretty good thing, particularly Carl and 00:10:15.850 --> 00:10:19.850 Jackie O. And now they're calling it Rise, which 00:10:19.850 --> 00:10:22.309 I suppose is a little bit more obvious that you're 00:10:22.309 --> 00:10:24.690 going to hear Christian music on there. But yes, 00:10:24.830 --> 00:10:28.490 who knows? And finally, the BBC responded to 00:10:28.490 --> 00:10:31.250 a UK government consultation about the renewal 00:10:31.250 --> 00:10:33.769 of its royal charter and how the broadcaster 00:10:33.769 --> 00:10:36.490 will be funded in coming years. We will explore 00:10:36.490 --> 00:10:40.350 opening up BBC Sounds to UK third parties and 00:10:40.350 --> 00:10:43.470 creators, the response claims, which is a brilliant 00:10:43.470 --> 00:10:47.259 idea. won the BBC Trail before the launch of 00:10:47.259 --> 00:10:50.860 BBC Sounds in 2018, won the BBC Press Released 00:10:50.860 --> 00:10:54.419 at launch, promoted again in its 2021 annual 00:10:54.419 --> 00:10:56.779 report and has continued sporadically making 00:10:56.779 --> 00:10:59.059 piecemeal agreements like with Goldhanger in 00:10:59.059 --> 00:11:03.480 November 2024. As ever, Radio France shows the 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:06.740 way and as ever, the BBC appears to be pushing 00:11:06.740 --> 00:11:11.600 out new ideas or old ideas dressed as new. I 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:14.539 kind of wish they wouldn't. Now, where am I speaking 00:11:14.539 --> 00:11:16.899 next? I am really looking forward to Riga in 00:11:16.899 --> 00:11:20.240 Latvia. Two weeks. I'm going via Hong Kong. Don't 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:23.340 worry. I will be doing two things. I'm talking 00:11:23.340 --> 00:11:27.419 with Steve Jones of Stingray on TuneIn on Canadian 00:11:27.419 --> 00:11:31.860 radio and on more things like that. If you have 00:11:31.860 --> 00:11:34.799 questions for me to ask, I would love to ask 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:38.019 them. Please do send them. James at Crid .land 00:11:38.019 --> 00:11:40.879 is my email address. That would be fantastic 00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:43.679 because I'm very much looking forward to getting 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:46.519 under the hood of TuneIn, which the company now 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:49.960 owns. But also talking about CanCon and all of 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:52.980 that kind of stuff and regulation. Anyway, very 00:11:52.980 --> 00:11:54.620 much looking forward to doing that. And also 00:11:54.620 --> 00:12:00.019 very much looking forward to a thing that I'm 00:12:00.019 --> 00:12:02.460 doing. I think first thing on the Tuesday morning, 00:12:02.659 --> 00:12:05.820 the future of audio is people powered. And I 00:12:05.820 --> 00:12:08.259 will be talking about what the future of radio 00:12:08.259 --> 00:12:12.960 really is. I can tell you now that I now have 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:18.720 one slide. So that's good. I've started. So looking 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:20.960 forward to putting that together and looking 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:23.940 forward to doing that in a couple of weeks time. 00:12:24.019 --> 00:12:27.340 It's not long now. I'm also speaking at the podcast 00:12:27.340 --> 00:12:31.519 show in London in May, keynoting at that event. 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:35.679 giving the, I'll tell you now, giving the results 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:39.259 of the Pod News report card, which is a piece 00:12:39.259 --> 00:12:42.120 of yearly research that Pod News puts together. 00:12:42.460 --> 00:12:44.799 So looking forward to that. That should be fun, 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:46.960 as well as recording a Pod News weekly review. 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:50.519 It'd be wonderful to see you there as well. And 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:52.779 I'm probably going to be speaking, as you might 00:12:52.779 --> 00:12:55.919 guess, at Podcast Movement in New York, although, 00:12:55.980 --> 00:13:00.080 you know, who knows? But all of the details for 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:02.919 that have come out. It looks really good event. 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:08.059 A week long, two days for Sounds Profitable folk 00:13:08.059 --> 00:13:10.659 talking about the business of podcasting. Then 00:13:10.659 --> 00:13:13.460 a day off when lots of people will be over at 00:13:13.460 --> 00:13:17.159 the IAB up front. Then two days with creators 00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:20.460 for Podcast Movement. Very much looking forward 00:13:20.460 --> 00:13:22.980 to that. More details on that at the Pod News 00:13:22.980 --> 00:13:27.610 website or indeed podcastmovement .com. And thank 00:13:27.610 --> 00:13:31.490 you to our many supporters, including Radio Today 00:13:31.490 --> 00:13:37.730 in the UK, Radio King. Thank you also to Clyde 00:13:37.730 --> 00:13:41.590 Broadcast and to Brunn Audio Consulting. And 00:13:41.590 --> 00:13:43.929 also thank you to Marty from New York, Gavin 00:13:43.929 --> 00:13:47.230 Watson, Greg Strassel. Sam Phelps, Richard Hilton, 00:13:47.389 --> 00:13:49.669 Emma Gibbs, Jocelyn Abbey and James Masterton 00:13:49.669 --> 00:13:52.669 for being regular supporters. If you would like 00:13:52.669 --> 00:13:54.750 to support this in any way, you can buy me a 00:13:54.750 --> 00:13:57.350 coffee, become a member to give regularly. That's 00:13:57.350 --> 00:13:59.309 always good. Or just give a one -off coffee or 00:13:59.309 --> 00:14:02.029 five. You can do that at buymeacoffee .com slash 00:14:02.029 --> 00:14:04.710 James Cridland. There's a podcast version of 00:14:04.710 --> 00:14:06.470 this newsletter. If you prefer that, it says 00:14:06.470 --> 00:14:08.730 here. I should probably have read ahead, shouldn't 00:14:08.730 --> 00:14:14.110 I? I'm also on Mastodon as, well, I should say 00:14:14.110 --> 00:14:16.720 then convert. Conversely, there is also a way 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:18.620 that you can get this podcast as a newsletter. 00:14:19.019 --> 00:14:21.360 Radioland .email is where you go there. There 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:26.000 you go. Salvaged. I'm on Mastodon, james at bne 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:29.159 .social if you're there as well. And my website 00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:31.659 has more detail about who I am and what I do 00:14:31.659 --> 00:14:33.559 and whether I can help you further. The full 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:37.179 website is james .crid .land. And until next 00:14:37.179 --> 00:14:38.480 time, keep listening.