Welcome to Cultural Connections Lab. I'm your host Dr. Kelly Forbes. We are here to talk with educational professionals around the world to impact and influence the education system as we focus on cultural connections and the education of multilingual, diverse students.
We're excited to have you join us today. We sincerely hope that you enjoy the show.
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Hello, listeners, and thank you for coming back for another podcast with Cultural Connections Lab. I am here with a fantastic educator, Dr. Jose Viana.
Dr. Viana is a first-generation Cuban immigrant who started his primary years as an English language learner.
The magnificent teachers that he encountered in his early learning inspired him to become an educator.
Viana has devoted his life to improving educational opportunities for minority populations and is honored to serve our nation's English learners and their families.
Viana served for eight years as an administrator of the Migrant Education Program for North Carolina's Department of Public Instruction,
where he supported migrant students and youths to meet high academic standards by overcoming obstacles due to frequent moves, educational disruption, cultural and linguistic differences, and health-related problems.
Dr. Viana began his career in Miami-Dade County Public Schools as an elementary school teacher for emergent bilinguals and multilingual learners,
and later was a humanities instructor at an international baccalaureate world school, which aims to develop knowledgeable young people to help create a better and more peaceful world through intercultural understanding and respect.
Concurrently, Viana had prepared and delivered general teaching skills sessions to Florida International University's undergraduate students, receiving a bachelor's of science degree in education in all levels and content areas.
After acquiring a certification in educational leadership in 2006, Dr. Viana became an elementary school administrator for Durham in North Carolina for Durham Public Schools,
where he established the district-wide Title I Parent Advisement Committee for Hispanics to help ensure that Latino children from low-income families met challenging state academic standards.
Dr. Jose Viana was named Assistant Deputy Secretary and Director of the Office of English Language Acquisition on April 12, 2017.
He was the principal advisor to the Secretary of Education on all matters related to the education of English learners, now estimated to be about 10% of the total K-12 public school enrollment nationwide.
As head of OELA, Viana administered programs under Title III of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act, which supported high-quality instruction for linguistically and culturally diverse students.
The office also supported professional development programs for teachers of emergent bilingual and multilingual learners.
Dr. Viana is committed to ensuring improvement of English language education through the department's initiatives, and under his stewardship, Dr. Viana guided OELA toward realizing its mission and vision to,
quote, provide national leadership in EL education by advancing opportunities for educational excellence and equity for English learners and their families.
Most recently, in 2019, Lexia Learning, a Rosetta Stone company, announced that Dr. Jose Viana had joined their team as Senior Education Advisor.
Dr. Viana also serves as an advisor across Rosetta Stone and helps support emergent bilinguals and multilingual learners, educators, and families across the nation.
It is so exciting and fantastic to have someone of your knowledge, of your stature, of your intelligence, of your background to be a guest on Cultural Connections Lab. Thank you so much for being here.
Thank you, Kelly, and thank you for the introduction.
Well, you deserve a truly an amazing introduction for all the amazing things that you've really done in the field of education and also most specifically in the field of bilingual and multilingual education.
I appreciate you. Ever since the first time I was able to get to meet you, I was just inspired by our conversations.
A little side note to our listeners is that once you had emailed me back, your email was just so encouraging.
I felt like, you know, like this famous educator in the world that emailed me, little old me, and I printed off your email and I put it on my wall.
So I always had just good memories, good, good, good thoughts about encouraged by you.
I appreciate that. Thank you so much. But what makes me an expert, and I'm using air quotes, is that I was an English learner myself and still consider myself to be an emergent bilingual learner.
So I appreciate that.
Well, I, you know, I don't know about that.
You know, I think though that that I think it's our experiences and it's our own internal and external journeys that really help us put ourselves in the shoes of our students, which I know for me changes every single way that I consider any action that I take when it comes to providing an equal as well as equitable education for our multilingual families.
What are some of the experiences from from from your background, especially as a first generation Cuban immigrant coming here?
And how does that impacted what you've done in the field of education and most specifically when it comes to cultural connections?
Well, yes, I tell everybody when I started my first year in kindergarten, we only spoke Spanish at home, so I was very timid, very nervous to get started with the school.
I was a practically a newcomer, not sure what I was getting myself into. We were actually in an area that did not have many Latinos because my mother found work in a warehouse that was out in kind of a more secluded area where not many Latino communities were around.
So my my teacher, this was back in the 70s, Kelly, so my teacher didn't have resources and research to reach kids like me. I always say it was it was her will and her passion.
You know, the first things I learned from the first words I learned from her was you can do it right. And she promoted that.
And I go back to that and I think about those experiences and you know those influential educators and people in the community that played such a major role in helping me find my voice and being able to be who would have thought right?
I was a part of OElla before learners like myself nationally when I was a part of OElla. So yes, that always plays such a major role and I always like to bring it up because yeah, it's kind of I think back to those days, just like I always think back to my days as a teacher.
I always play such a major role in all the decisions that I would make when we were when I was a part of OElla. It was all about finding solutions, right? We would have round tables and conversations with educators, parents, students, and in these conversations, we'd always find, you know, areas of need.
And when I bring the staff together, my impulse was let's find practical solutions for this. Teachers need to know how does that look like in my classroom, right? We have all this research, all these studies, all this incredible information and resources out there.
But how does that what does that look like in my classroom? So decisions and conversations that I have, I always take it back to that Kelly always because that's really the foundation to, you know, again, my expertise and with air quotes, I feel like I'm more of a.
What's the word about curator, right? There's so much great resources. There's studies and there's all this great stuff that sometimes I just find myself just sorting through all of it and keeping in mind what our teachers needs are, what students needs are and pulling from those and using those to help our educators reach our students and give them these opportunities to find academic success.
You know, I'm so glad that you mentioned the importance of our educators, our teachers that are in the classroom on the on the ground every day with our students. So just a special shout out to all of our educators out there. Thank you for your service. Thank you for what you do.
And thank you for seeing all students for for the greatness that they have internally. You know, it's it's everything that a student brings to the table is an asset, especially their their language. And so whenever our educators can really see that what they bring to the table, when they can build upon in their native language is what helps them become so successful, so successful in such a way that they can help be leading true change nationwide.
Right. I mean, your story to me is just such a huge success story. I'm waiting for it to be like the Netflix documentary and education. But it's just it's just so fantastic. But considering our teachers as well, that really connects also to our leadership. What advice do you have for leaders in helping supporting teachers to help students like you were?
Oh, listen to your teachers, right? You need to be actively engaged in conversations with those that are working with with our students that are there at the forefront with our students. I think one of the things we have to learn to do as educators, I'm saying we you know, those of you out there that are working with our students and being their educators, you're also their advocates.
So you have to find opportunities to be able to have conversations with your administrators with leadership so that they understand. Kelly, one thing I learned, you know, we always talk about background knowledge and being culturally responsive, you know, incorporating their name.
Excuse me, incorporate.
So no worries, you have your water, I'll have my coffee. The same thing incorporating. Let me let me start that over. So you guys. Yeah. So we always talk about, you know, the background knowledge. We talk about incorporating their heritage language, their culture, bringing all of that to our content in our curriculum.
But I say go even deeper. There's a there's a book out there about humanizing our immigrant and refugee students. So it's what are their what are their likes? What are their dreams? What do they hope to achieve? Let's talk to the parents. What are what are the what are the parents expectations of us as educators?
You know, it's it goes beyond just being culturally responsive. So I think humanizing our students for our leaders is just as important. They need to see that it's more than just a student that's learning English. This is a student that's on the journey to become bilingual, multilingual.
This is a student that's going to have incredible opportunities once they graduate and go out into the workforce, not only economic opportunities, right, and opportunities for to find work and careers and those kinds of things, but opportunities to build bridges around the world to connect with countries and people and bring folks together and solving global.
So, you know, coming up with global solutions. So, yeah, I think I think it's all about the messaging, going to your leadership and making sure that they see our students. You know, we talk about there's a Zulu greeting called Salvona, right, which is more than just a hello.
It's I see you. Such a powerful thing. And our kids need to be seen. They need to be heard, but they need to do that. They need us to to to be a part of that voice and to provide these opportunities. And I'd go even higher than than your school leadership, your district leadership.
I'm talking policy as well. You know, when people are trying to come up with policy out in the state capital, they need to hear from us. They need to know what the needs are and what are the best ways of meeting those needs.
So, you know, we got to go all the way with this. So that that even I have a question if you could take us back to, you know, as educators, I think it's important for us to do a better job of trying to understand the background of our students that are learning English.
Can you take us back to your memories? I know it was a long time ago for you, five years old, but what is it like? I think there are a lot of us out there that don't really understand what it what is it like to come from another country and be just thrown into the classroom without knowing the language.
It's, you know, it's hard to put into words, but I go back to my experience again back. This was back in the seventies, right? So literally my kindergarten teacher, Mrs. Larkin, had one of those English Spanish dictionaries that she would, you know, flip through and piece words together.
So she would be able to communicate with me in my in my native language. But I think the biggest thing she did for me was create a safe space, a safe environment for me to feel like, OK, I can take a chance and try to speak up and work through learning this language and take some chances.
And in, you know, a discussion and discourse, and she really helped me out with that. As a matter of fact, I tell this to people all the time. One of the things she did was connect me with Alvin, and I think I told you the story once, Taylor of Alvin Kelly. I don't think you've heard it.
So Alvin was a kindergartener that had a speech impairment. He would stutter and Mrs. Larkin again, no resources or research to reach kids like me and Alvin. She had to figure it out, and I know she didn't see my English, my limits in English as a disability.
She just figured that these two kids can probably help each other maneuver through the challenges they face. So I felt safe talking to Alvin because if I said things, you know, a little funny or differently, he knew what that was like to to be, you know, laughed at or to be looked at differently because you can't express yourself.
And of course, since he would stutter, his job was to slow down when he spoke to me. So I would see the shape of his mouth and his tongue and what he was saying. He would have to say it's so slow that I was able to pick up the language. So she put me in a safe space.
And I think that's key is giving them putting putting your students in a position where they can they can find this this success. So that was that was key number the first key that that welcoming environment, the ability to just let me give it a try and take the chance to speak. We got to make sure we put our kids there.
Outside the classroom, what what what are they kind of the stress or why did your family come to the United States? Why do some people come to the United States and how does that stress outside the classroom affect some students abilities within the classroom?
Yeah, I mean, we got to realize and again, it's humanizing our students. I think it's important and we got to keep in mind also Taylor and Kelly that most of our kids were born here. Right. Most of the students, I think it's over 80 percent are from here.
And that aside, yeah, you have to keep in mind these journeys because sometimes they can be traumatic. There's there's other other obstacles that you have to overcome. So in our case, it was almost like what you usually hear.
Right. It's the land of opportunity in talking about giving our students a voice in Cuba. That was the first thing they took from the population was the ability to express openly. As a matter of fact, my father was imprisoned because he spoke against the government.
So that's why we came to this country. He said, I don't want my son growing up in a country where he can't express himself and have a voice. So here I am in this country where I can't speak the language, but I did have the support, the support of the community, the support of our educators to put me on that path to become bilingual to to be successful.
And they always cherished the fact that I had another language and they didn't want me to lose it. So they involved my mom as much as possible in these in communications and reaching out to her and making sure that I'm still having conversations in Spanish and that I was holding on to that language.
Like for me, it wasn't, you know, when I think of heritage language, when I think of, you know, we refer to it as L one, right? Sometimes it feels like something in the past, right? Like, oh, that's the heritage. That's that's in the past. Let me learn this new language English.
But for them, it wasn't like that. It was all one language, you know, one repertoire, one system that they were creating inside of me. I wasn't going to be too monolingual. I was going to be fully bilingual student. This was back again back in the 70s. It's an incredible experience that I had.
But yeah, yeah, I mean, it varies from community to community and student to student. And that's why we need these deep dives and getting to know our students, getting to know our parents, getting to know what their dreams and hopes and what their future holds.
Well, well, so our co-host, Dr. Tribble, he has been really involved a lot with me in my dissertation and doctoral process, and it's been researching the role of cultural proficiency and what that looks like in our education system.
So whenever you talk about things like humanizing our students, I really appreciate you and fantasizing that because I try to do the same thing whenever I'm speaking to educators and refer to them as humans and actually call them like the humans that we have in our classroom.
So it always brings that back to the forefront that it doesn't matter who you are, from where you come, anything else. It's that you are a fellow human in this classroom with me.
So I just I really appreciate you talking about that because I think that that is something that that we miss. Students sometimes in subgroups on standardized tests become statistics that does impact the way that we view and consider policy that we have within our district.
It therefore impacts pedagogical practices and what that looks like. And I think it's important that teachers are able to have the understanding that there are all these humans in their classroom and that we can pair them up with other humans in the classroom to create safe spaces for our students to have the best educational experience.
Through that though, I feel like the teacher that you had had to have understood some sort of their own level of cultural proficiency. They had to start in some internal to outside journey, understanding who they were, are, and the goals that they wanted to be.
Considering that in all of your experiences, when do you remember starting your own personal, whenever you recognize like this is my internal culturally proficient journey as I'm in a in a new country with a new language and in a new education system that
then I can only imagine because currently now can be stifling for underrepresented populations. But what was your journey like? Maybe if you could give us some insight as a student like that inside journey and then what does that translate to now as you continue your journey as we all are as lifelong learners as an adult?
Yeah, absolutely everything that you said.
You mentioned being culturally responsive and I think that's that was something that was very important to my teachers growing up. I think I was kind of like new, like this shiny toy, right?
They didn't approach me as an oh my goodness or pobrecito, you know, this what are we going to do?
They really saw me as an opportunity, right? They were all monolingual teachers, but they all saw this as we can shape the future of this child. We can play a role in his journey, his destination.
So they were culturally responsive and I'm glad you're doing a dissertation that focuses on that because that's very important, Kelly, for teachers to realize what this means to be culturally responsive because everybody likes, you know, being multicultural is wonderful, right?
And putting things up in the classroom and others, but culturally responsive is responding to each child that's in your classroom. It's bringing their culture into the curriculum is bringing their experiences, what they know into discussions.
And if you think about it, what a rich discussion it is for everyone involved, the teacher, the native English speakers to hear this talk about what their life was like or, you know, the journey their parents took, the journey they took.
I mean, it creates some rich environments for conversation and discourse. And that's how that's where language happens, right? That's where we learn our language is when we speak and listen and are involved in discourse.
So I think Ms. Larkin and the rest of my teachers were truly culturally responsive. And they welcomed my mom to bring in some of the food and feed the kids and talk about, you know, the food and the memories that she has from her home country.
I know that one of the things that Mrs. Larkin tried to do, one of my safe spaces, Kelly, was, I don't know if the audience would know about these big record players where you would put this record and it would read to you and you would look at a book and you follow along.
I remember these.
A little velvet play, remember? Turn the page. And she would order books like on baseball, which Cuban out there does not like baseball, right? So she found these little things here and there that fit kind of my experience and my background and brought those in so that I would be engaged and I would be interested.
And she was responding to me and then made it special. As a matter of fact, she would use those to bring me into the class discussions. Jose, tell us about baseball.
And I would, you know, I'd do the Spanglish thing. You know, some things were in Spanish, some things were in English, and we'd sort it out together as a class, as a group of co-learners.
So I think that was the main thing was how she tapped into my background experience, reached in and brought that, included that in the classroom.
Again, I have to remind everyone this is the 70s in a school that had really no Latinos. One day I'll send you the picture of my class. I still have it.
And I'm the only one that has a little line on top of my E for Jose, you know, everybody else. It's Daisy and Alvin and all these.
And Jose.
There's Jose. There's Jose out there that looks like everyone else that was in the classroom, but just couldn't, you know, had to learn English.
You know, I would even want to add to that, that it also sounds like, like, like Miss Larkin went even beyond just being culturally responsive, but really to create an environment of cultural interconnectivity.
Like really creating this space where you were able to share your experiences in both of your languages, right? So using your entire linguistic repertoire.
And even apart from just advocacy, what I'm hearing is a whole lot of allyship. I mean, really, like bringing in your family, having your culture shared, having your language shared, having your interests shared, having you as the human being shared in the classroom along with everyone else.
And for back in the 70s, like you say, that is, it's really compelling to learn more about.
And I'm talking elementary school, right? Let's let's, you know, we got to remember those students at the secondary level.
I saw a classroom, it's out in Portland, Maine. I think it's called King's, King's Middle School, I want to say. Mrs. Sinclair.
She has a classroom full of English learners from Rwanda and the Congo. These are middle schoolers.
And they went through this complex text called The Long Walk to Water. I don't know if you've heard of it.
I've read it.
It takes place in southern Sudan. So these kids, complex text, but they were engaged and they were able to go through this rigorous content and have these incredible conversations, almost leading these conversations because the native English speakers were there, you know, hooked.
They would tell us more. So you know what it's like now to have fresh, clean water in your village and that you have to walk them out.
I mean, it was just this fascinating, incredible discourse. And this is middle school.
But they again, they were able to pull not just from their experiences, but that, you know, fumble through their language.
But the rest of the students think because they were they were all in. They wanted to learn more.
So, yeah, I would say, especially in the secondary levels, when you get these these kids that are, you know, trying to figure all of this out.
But yet giving them that opportunity for what did you call it, Kelly, the intercultural or? Yeah, intercultural connectivity.
Connectivity. Yeah. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing.
It's really a step just beyond like multiculturalism whenever we, you know, see, understand, you know, are involved in other cultures.
And I think that's interesting is that being interconnected in such a different way is really sharing and valuing and participating in those experiences with people that come from in different cultures, which is I love it.
You can call me a culture nerd or whatever you want, because I just love to learn about different cultures and languages and all of that.
And I think that's really, really interesting.
I want to bring it down to like the basic level.
We've heard about like the these teachers. I think you've mentioned two separate teachers now that have impacted your life yesterday.
Last night I was given a presentation. It was an informative presentation about the district.
I'm helping them with a dual language program.
I was given a chance to go into this informative presentation and actually was the student of my partner, Chris.
Forever ago, about 10 years ago.
And she ended up talking when talking about him started crying and said that he was one of those teachers in high school where she was in the ESL class pulled out.
She had injury saying that, you know, my teacher never left my side, depressed, didn't want to continue forward, was just motivated by him, was able to pass my end of the year test, able to graduate.
Now going to nursing school, helping her students become bilingual.
And this is also coming from someone over the years.
Maybe since we're together, he's acquired a little bit of a spaniel, just a little bit.
But at that time, though, truly, like we're talking about a monolingual, monocultural educator that changed the life of more than just this one student who's now an adult, but just kind of being in a situation like that where something comes full circle.
I mean, it brought just true emotions out of this, you know, human that he had in his classroom at that time.
So I just I'm just so thankful to hear stories like that, because I know that we can all name an educator that's that's changed our life and put us on a different trajectory in one way or another.
But I think whenever it comes to being truly included in the space that you're in and to feel like you belong.
So going to like that that concept of belonging is so wonderful.
How does belonging and understanding about cultures, how has that changed the way that you've led in the positions that you've occupied?
I think so.
I would say.
Complex. Yeah, no, there's a lot there.
So I think again, the key to that would be to embrace the child holistically, right?
To look at the child as a student on the road to becoming, you know, bilingual, multilingual.
And in order to do that, you do need to include their, you know, what they bring with them.
You know, we talk about that asset based, that asset model of education, and it's crucial for students who are learning English to make sure that we are tapping into all of that.
And we, as we've been talking about Kelly, you know, we're talking about we the whole community, right?
That whole takes the village model content, general ed teachers, you know, they need the resources they need to support the training to reach these students as well, because they all we all play an important role.
As a matter of fact, if you're learning language, what better way to learn language than to do it within the content areas that your teachers are offering you?
So yeah, I think it's definitely a very important mindset that we have to have.
And I think you mentioned it earlier, even as educators, we have our own biases, right?
And, you know, I experienced that where I had, you know, a student that was an English learner or multilingual learner, but also had, you know, a special need.
He was a student with an IEP and, you know, a lot.
Sometimes my reaction was, oh, my goodness, where do I start?
Right. Instead of, wow, what an incredible opportunity for this child.
You know, what an impact that we as educators in this school are going to have in his life.
So, yeah, just changing our own mindset, our own biases and digging into that.
One of the things that I talk a lot about, and I think it connects to this, Kelly, are accents.
So, as you know, I travel the nation.
I was in Boston recently. I went down to Edinburgh, Texas. I was in Marietta City, Georgia.
These are native English speakers with accents. Hello.
A person from Boston talks very different from a person in Edinburgh, Texas.
So, accents in the English language, it's a global language. It's universal.
We need to overlook that. Let's focus on, you know, not how they're saying it.
Let's focus on what they're saying. Is it grammatically correct?
What can we, you know, how can we scaffold and teach explicitly how to say something?
But not how you're saying it, right? It's beautiful to have these variations of accents.
I had, when I was the director of the Migrant Ed program in North Carolina, I'd go to a lot of rural areas.
And, you know, they'd come running out, maestro, maestro.
And you have these little kids from Guatemala and Mexico speaking with a Southern draw.
And it was this beautiful Spanish Southern draw mix that just makes our language and brings that diversity to light.
So I always tell teachers that, you know, don't worry about that, you know, embrace it.
It's a beautiful thing and make it a part of the thrill of learning in school.
So, you know, little things like that, being able to pronounce a student's name correctly.
That can be a challenge. But if you blow it off, it's kind of like saying your name is too difficult.
It's not normal, you know. But if you take the time to say the name, that kid's going to be engaged.
We talk about newcomers and that silent period. Add their name to the mix, saying it correctly.
They're going to talk. They're going to be a part of the conversation.
So those little things that are cultural, that we sometimes chalk up to an accent.
I don't know. Let's clean it up. No, no, no. Those are things we embrace, we bring in.
And again, we develop those safe environments for these kids to take a chance in speaking and developing their language and their repertoire.
So, yeah, a couple of examples there.
No, I love that. There was a gentleman, this was years ago, and he was from China.
And he was giving a speech and it was about language acquisition, language learning.
It was a session like that. But I'll never forget that whenever he said, and we were just all laughing, he said,
it doesn't matter about my accent, you understand everything I'm saying.
And I thought, that's so true. It doesn't matter about the accent. I mean, it's about communication.
Can we talk to each other? And so I love that you say that, but it kind of made everyone stop and pause for a minute.
And I was like, oh, good. I like it whenever we make people think just for a second.
You're going to have to listen to one of the other podcasts about Dr. Tribble and his accents and his travels.
Jose, you've referenced multiple times and kind of talked about stories that allude to the importance of the village and the family.
Do you mind? And you also apparently obviously had a lot of support from your family when you came here.
Can you highlight what are some important things that schools can do to help engage parents that, you know, oftentimes they're working,
both parents are working, it's hard to find time, but they obviously care about their kids and want them to be successful.
What can schools do to help better engage families of students learning English?
That's a great question. And that's a great question. And there's actually various approaches to this.
I think number one, and this was something that was surprising to me when I was with OL, I would have these roundtables
and I would meet with parents and we'd have these conversations.
And let me tell you, many times they would tell me for my child to be successful in this country, they need to learn English,
even if they have to sacrifice their native language. And it was shocking to me.
But, you know, they were just so focused on he needs to be successful, she needs to be successful.
And I think this is the road. Obviously, my OL side would kick in and I would talk to them about the benefits of multilingualism
and, you know, everything, all the doors that it opens, you know, all the cognitive benefits and, you know, and change your mind.
So that's step number one, is making sure that our parents understand the power that they have at home.
You know, if you're cooking, bring the child over, cook with them, go talk about the recipe in your native language.
Tell them about, you know, this reminds me of this food reminds me of a time that, you know, I was outside playing
and turn it into a beautiful conversation. If you're watching TV, turn on the closed captions
so we can see the words on the screen so the parent can practice their English a little bit or vice versa.
They're watching something in Spanish. But definitely, I think that's step number one, letting our parents know you play a major role in this.
And one of the biggest roles you can do is keep that language happening at home, right?
Turn it into give them that opportunity that they can trans language later and pull from, you know,
the whole repertoire of language that they'll bring to the school and that they'll bring home, you know, play music in Spanish.
But, you know, they can watch TV in English and just have language happening all over.
So that's that would be step number one for me. And definitely just finding ways to to welcome your parents into the school community.
I have to say when I was a school principal, I was a school principal in Durham. It was a large Latino population.
I always made sure to take my parents on a tour of the school. Here they are entrusting their kids to us, dropping them off, right?
And probably nervous and not sure and wondering what happens when I do that. They trust us.
I would say the majority of our families, our parents and guardians of English learners trust that we are there to do what's best for our students.
But take them on a tour, walk them around the school. And while you're doing that, that's when you can ask.
So what are your dreams? Tell me a little bit about your son. You know, tell me a little bit about your daughter.
You know, I want to get to know them. And you find out all these incredible stories. Tell me what your hopes are.
What, you know, these types of conversations are crucial.
And then it brings them into the community. And all of a sudden, they're not as timid anymore to, you know, knock on your office door and say hi or or or go to that event that that, you know, the school is offering open house, whatever it may be.
And then, of course, there's there's, you know, I put my policy hat on. There's all the legal stuff as well.
You know, making sure that everything is translated into native languages so that everything that's going home is accessible to your to your parents and guardians so that they know what's going on.
If you all go to OELA, the Office of English Language Education, Google OELA, come up.
And I when I was there, I commissioned this toolkit on parents rights. There's I've got two chapters passed while I was there.
And now Montserrat, our current deputy assistant secretary of OELA, is trying to get the other units through.
But it's it's a very powerful document because it's looking at the parents rights, but at a federal level.
So they can see what are their rights. It comes with questions that they can ask in school.
It comes with just kind of almost like a checklist of these are questions you should be asking in school.
These are some of the resources that that you have. These are some of the rights that you have as a parent, because a lot of times they don't know it's translated into five different languages.
So obviously, there's many more languages out there, but we can always find staff to help with these translations as well.
So so there's that legal side as well. So those are just a few little nuggets of things that we could be doing to get our parents involved, to be a part of that.
I keep saying the journey, right? We're going through this journey of bilingualism.
And those parents are crucial in leading the way.
And a percent, I just want to highlight that because I think that is one area of growth and opportunity for many districts nationwide is to really have conversations in a language in which the parents understand about not only their rights, but the benefits of multilingualism.
Because it is so detrimental that they understand that because parents are coming, like you said, and the majority of they trust.
Right. And so if we're going to allow them to trust us, then we have to make sure that once we know better that we do better and that we can have those conversations to be able to educate our parents.
They still get to make the choice. They're the ones in charge. This is their child's education.
But I need to make sure that I have done everything to the best of my ability to let them know that the quality and the quantity of education in their child's native language will give them a higher level of language proficiency in English and give them more success overall.
And if we continue to hide that truth from them because of whatever reason that might be, if it's just lack of doing so or lack of maybe leadership understanding that as well, that conversation that people then understand this research and are able to be in those conversations.
I really want to encourage our listeners to go out and to have those conversations and to share the knowledge of the research and our experiences as bilingual or multilingual individuals about the benefits of that and the reality of that.
And I always tell people, you know, like we were all learning language, even if you're a monolingual English speaker, no one is a native born speaker of academic language.
We're all trying to learn. I say no one was born talking about onomatopoeia. You know, like nothing of that was ever happening. So we're all trying to learn language.
But the more that we can build upon the languages that we know, we elevate the languages that we have as our native language.
Just yesterday, I was even given an example that we were talking about a raincoat versus una chaqueta impermeable.
And so whenever you talk, we like we don't say an impermeable jacket. We say a raincoat.
And so whenever you start thinking about in Spanish, now you're adding in so many other, you know, cognitive academic language proficient words like our science words, you know, like things like that.
And so anyhow, point being, though, is having these conversations about the benefits of multiculturalism and multilingualism and the benefits of the brain.
I just want to really encourage our listeners and our leaders out there to have those conversations among each other. But most importantly, definitely with our parents, because they do trust us.
A hundred percent.
Before we come to a close, I do have a question for you, Jose, about just kind of thinking into the future.
Is there any is there any research out there or activity going on in the field that really excites you that you think we need to be paying attention to in reference to students learning English?
So I mentioned earlier that I'm more of a curator nowadays because there's so much out there and such great resources and people doing great work and studies.
But lately I've focused a lot of my energy on oral language development or or is right. The listening and speaking domains of English language acquisition.
Obviously, there's a reading and writing, and that's very important. But what's the foundation to reading and writing? And it's the listening and speaking this oral language development.
And it I've gone down a rabbit hole, as they say, which, by the way, the other day I'm terrible at idioms because I think of them like you were saying, Kelly, in Spanish, and then I translate them.
So I did. I said something about a rabbit hole and people were looking at me like, what are you talking about? And they corrected me. So now I'm using it all the time.
Anyway, that's a that's a different story.
So this oral language development piece is fascinating. You know, a lot of times, for example, like you'll hear about when kids are acquiring English, there's the BICS, right?
The basic interpersonal communication skills. And usually what do you hear? That's the playground language. That's they need to do that in the playground.
Right. And then there's the CALP, the cognitive academic language proficiency side of language acquisition. That's in the classroom. And I'm using air quotes. Right.
They need to do both everywhere all the time. Right. I mean, we're all talking now. And yeah, we have our academics. You know, we switch it to academic a little bit.
But in between, we're joking around. We're talking about life experiences and those kinds of things. And we can't separate those two anymore.
When it comes to oral language development, let them let them bring it all to the conversation, because that's I mean, that's just normal.
That's the way that's the way we talk. That's the way we communicate. So I want teachers to remember that.
There's no, you know, now we talk academically and focus on content. No, just like the whole trans languaging concept.
So that's the one that I ask your listeners to go down that rabbit hole and learn about trans languaging. You know, your students come with this repertoire of language right inside of them.
You know, it's all this language that they can pull from and they can mix it up and use it.
And both of you become co learners when it comes to language development, because, you know, they say it, you know, in their native language and they mix it up with a little bit of English.
That's a great teachable moment for for the two of you to go to talk about it and talk through it.
So trans languaging is something that I'm fascinated by. And I love this concept of, you know, pulling from that full repertoire makes just the comprehension of rigorous content.
A lot, a lot more easier to comprehend. Right. It really expands the thinking. It expands communication.
So, yeah, I'm all about right now this oral language development piece of listening and speaking.
Our kids are not doing that enough in classes and teachers. I was there. You know, I had my first year teaching was thirty five Nicaraguan students in my ESO class.
How in the world was I going to have a conversation with each one of them that, you know, spend enough time having conversations with?
But you got to find a way. Our teachers are talking for about 80 percent of the time. You can't you can't learn a language if the teacher is talking 80 percent of the time.
While in schools and classrooms where students are showing success, research shows the teachers talk only half of the time.
The kids are having the other half to have conversation. I'm not talking about answering a question. I'm talking about discourse and conversation in various groups, homogeneous groups, you know,
students that are at your level, your proficiency level, the students that don't speak your native language, you know, just mixing it up and having these these incredible conversations.
Are the other that's the path that's the path to learning language. That's the path to reading comprehension because we talk about decoding words and learning how to read words.
We got to attach the understanding and making meaning of these words that we're learning.
And kids can do that. But it happens through conversations and oral language development and talking about things.
If our listeners would like to join you in that rabbit hole, what are some like off the top you had any key like websites or places to go where they can start start jumping in the hole with you?
Yes. So I'm a big fan of I guess this is a shout out Dr. Jose Medina. So I'm sure if you Google him, you'll pop right up.
He one of the things he does a lot is go to dual language immersion programs and kind of help them figure this thing out. And I'm sure he'd say the same thing.
I'm a huge fan of dual language immersion programs, but I can't tell you how many times I've walked through the doors of a dual man.
Dual language immersion program where it feels like two separate schools. That's the English side. That's the Mandarin side. And they're not looking at the program holistically.
They're not. The kids are not given opportunities to trans language. They have to switch. They make a little switch in their head when they go on that side of the hall or go to the classroom where it's Mandarin.
So he talks a lot about this, about combining the two and giving them these opportunities to use their language.
So Dr. Jose Medina is definitely I would say that's one of the first places I would go to to really dig deeper into this concept and figure out what does that look like?
Again, going back to practical solutions, what does that look like in my classroom? How do I make that happen?
So that's step number one. I can't think of other links and things, but if you start there, I'm sure you'll find a lot of good stuff.
You'll definitely find plenty. Yeah, no, for sure. And Dr. Jose Medina, I had the privilege of meeting him whenever I was living in Bangkok, Thailand.
So it's fantastic. And so and my partner, Chris, was there and he won the book, The Guiding Principles for Dual Language Education. And so I went ahead and took that and said thank you so much for my win.
And so I carry that around with me and have it in my backpack in this office with me actually right now.
And so I would I would I would agree. Dr. Jose Medina is an excellent person to seek out on Twitter, on Instagram, Facebook, everywhere.
Yeah, and definitely the guiding principles for sure. And thanks for bringing up, though, the fact about mixing the cap and having that be together.
That was a conversation I was having in the car on the way over here. And the person with whom I was speaking, Dr.
Popo, well, she was saying, you know, if we if we use the academic language, the students will understand academic language.
There's no reason to not be having that being part of every type of conversation.
You know, there's teaching content, but there's also teaching language of content and also us going back and forth between our monolingual,
even linguistic repertoire between the basic English and the academic language, because it is all interconnected at the same time.
That's a fantastic point. In closing, I want to just ask this one last question.
And I think it's good because it deals with honor. How can we encourage people to honor the uniqueness and the individualities of others?
And how do we continue to honor our own uniqueness and all the special things that we have in ourselves?
What are the best ways that we can continue to honor ourselves, our students in the field of multilingual education?
Again, I think. The way I see this is.
By giving our students a voice, I mentioned that earlier, Mrs. Larkin gave me a voice, you know, she it changed my life, right?
It changed the trajectory of my life, my future.
So I think you honor them by seeing them, by listening to them, by giving them the opportunity to share their life, their experiences,
to get invested in who they are and what they bring to the table.
And I think on the educator side, I think we all have to realize that we're a part of this journey.
It doesn't matter what role you are in this child's community.
You do play a role in providing them the opportunity to become bilingual, multilingual, to be successful in their future and in their academic journey.
So it's about finding these opportunities to unlock their enormous potential.
And we all play a role in that. And I think that's the way to look at it.
We're honoring them when we see them, when we listen to them, when we give them the opportunity.
And we bring it as well when we realize the crucial role, the important role we play in this journey that the students are taking.
Well, I just want to say personally, thank you for everything that you have been in my educational career just recently.
As of recent, whenever I was able to meet you, I know you laugh, but truly I just admire you.
I respect you. I look up to you so much.
And so I just want to say thank you on a personal note because it just allows me to be a better version of who I am to hopefully do the same thing that you're talking about,
which is honoring our students and the communities that we serve and just to continue to be a servant leader.
And so I want to say thank you so much.
Are there any final thoughts that you would like to share with us on this awesome podcast?
Thank you, Kelly. And I think with Kelly, and I hope everyone has an opportunity at some point to spend time with Kelly and with Taylor,
because with them, and I hope you got that vibe from us, it's almost a celebration when we talk about this topic and our students and unlocking their potential,
because it's a celebration of bilingualism, multilingualism, and Kelly, you always and then Taylor, you guys always bring that, you know, Taylor, with this focus on data and finding ways to analyze all this important data and information that's out there
so we can target the needs of our students and help them meet those needs and achieve success.
And then Kelly, with you, you know, the same thing, it's it's this passion and attitude and an energy that you bring that I think it's crucial and that we all need.
There's something I always usually when I have conversations with folks, I always bring up someone that was that special to me, someone that I looked up to.
I had him speak to my migrant students back when I was in North Carolina. And when I was in Oella, you know, I had a lot of, it wasn't easy, you know, you're fighting for the rights of your students, you're fighting for funding for your students, you're fighting,
fighting to get grants and resources out there for your students. So it was an exhausting experience.
And then I'd look across the street and if you've ever been at the US Department of Ed, it's across the street from the Air and Space Museum. And it always reminded me of Jose Hernandez.
Jose Hernandez was a migrant student. He moved from Mexico to California. He was a farm worker. He didn't know English till he was about in middle school.
But he was great at science and technology and math and teachers were able to tap into that. And eventually he became a mission specialist on the Discovery shuttle. I think it was 2009.
He, you know, got on the space shuttle. As a matter of fact, talk about giving someone a voice. He's the first person to tweet in Spanish from outer space.
That's really so cool.
But what I always tell everyone is we tell our students to aim for the stars and this guy literally went up there to the stars. Farm worker, English learner, you know, immigrant.
And look at his accomplishment, an astronaut out in space tweeting in Spanish. So if he can do it and he if he was here, he'd say the same thing. We all can do it, right?
And so this asset model approach, Kelly, that we were talking about today and being culturally responsive, our students will know that we hear them and we see them and that they can they can reach the stars.
Well, you are incredible listeners. I hope that you enjoyed today's conversation. I want to say a special thank you to our producer, Mike Overholt, who's right here. And then also to Dr. Taylor Tribble.
Thank you so much for being our co-host today. And of course, a big thank you so much for your time today, Dr. Jose Villana. I hope that you all enjoyed making some cultural connections today and I wish you all the very best.
Adios.