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Welcome to Cultural Connections Lab. I'm your host, Kelly Forbes. We are here to talk with

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educational professionals around the world to impact and influence the education system as we

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focus on cultural connections and the education of multilingual diverse students. We're excited

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to have you join us today and we sincerely hope you enjoy the show. Greetings and welcome to

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Cultural Connections Lab. My name is Kelly Forbes and I'm so excited to be with an incredible,

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wonderful guest today on our podcast. I was truly talking to her just a few minutes ago

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and expressing that I would love to be able to introduce her as a dear friend of mine. However,

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I am just now able to really get to know this amazing guest that we have and I'm excited to

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have a new friendship with her. She is someone that after being a stay-at-home mom to an award-winning

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activist filmmaker, top 100 podcaster, and sought after international speaker, I am here with the

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infamous Denise Soler Cox. She has her experience producing and inspiring content that sparks

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meaningful and transformative dialogue. In 2020, Denise was recognized as a featured host by Apple

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podcast North America for her podcast, The Selfish Latina, which has listeners in 32 countries.

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Denise has been invited to speak on over 300 stages, including two TEDx talks, and has worked

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with some of the world's most recognized brands like Progressive, Microsoft, AARP, Facebook,

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LinkedIn, JP Morgan Chase, Salesforce, Procter & Gamble, Dow Jones, Eli Lilly, KPMG, Starbucks,

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and VaynerMedia, Sony, just to name a few. Her work with Project Inye has been featured on NBC

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Nightly News, Forbes.com, CNN, NBC Latino, Chicago Tribune, Telemundo, Univision, Fox News Latino,

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and The Huffington Post. Denise is a distinguished member of the fourth cohort of the Stanford

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Latino Leaders Entrepreneur Program and was a National Association of Latino Independent

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Producers 2017 Fellow. She was honored to be selected as the 2018 recipient of the Bridge

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Builder Award in Education from the Virginia Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. Denise is currently

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in production with her second feature-length documentary. She just launched a brand new

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podcast called The Magic of Belonging podcast, and she's also working on the forthcoming book

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about belonging. I would like to also direct you to her website, which is denissoleirocox.com.

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Denise, welcome to this podcast. I'm so excited. Thank you so much. And I'd like to thank everyone

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who's still listening after that very long bio. It's important. That was very important. You come

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with just a huge, incredible background. I'm truly honored to get to be in this space with you. And

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I thank you for this space that you've created. I first got to meet you in 2018, I believe it was,

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2017 or 18. I'm not quite for sure. At the Oklahoma Association for Bilingual Education

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Conference. Whenever you shared the story. That was my 100th event. Did I share that that night?

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You did. You did. That just came to me. That was a great night. It was fantastic. And I just

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remember meeting you and Dr. Taylor Tribble, who was on our very first interview. But whenever he

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was able to introduce me to you, the work that you do just really inspired me and has actually

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changed my life in many ways. And I think of you often, and like I said, still wear the t-shirt

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all the time. That's awesome. Thank you so much for all that you do. Thank you for supporting it.

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And that makes me very happy to hear that it has made such a difference with you. Well,

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I'm incredibly, incredibly grateful to have you here and excited for all of our listeners to get

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to hear and learn from you just as well. But so this, tell us about this amazing journey

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that you've been on as you have accomplished just so much in your life, but also this mission-based

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business entrepreneur and motivational speaker turned film director. What has that impact been

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on not just you personally, but also the people that you inspire, motivate and serve?

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Well, so thanks for asking about that. First, I have to say that it feels really good to

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just like be in a space and thinking about all of these things, not from like a pat myself on my back

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feeling, but from a wow, like it feels good to look back and appreciate all the hard work and

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then appreciate these like moments in time where there was acknowledgement and recognition. So

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it's to answer your question, it's transformed me in all the ways that I'd hoped that it would

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transform others, which I think speaks to when we feel a pull to do something with our life,

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you know, to do something great, you know, something that maybe feels out of reach.

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It's happening for a reason that pull is there for a reason. And if you are able to answer the

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call or if you do answer the call, chances are you get lots of growth experiences that, you know,

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in hindsight were very difficult, you know, as I went through them. But in hindsight, has made me,

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I feel like an incredible benefactor, the best or the biggest benefactor, right? And then my hope is,

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is that I can help others feel the same, you know, in their life that I have, which is that they

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belong. That's incredibly important. And I appreciate your, your kind of tone in that, you

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know, I feel like, like, like, whenever you speak, it's like you said, it's not about, you know, I

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got my pat on the back or anything, but it's really the kind of those moments that whenever you're

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able to be recognized, it's much bigger than us as individuals, it's being recognized, we're doing

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this for service, for a community, for, for students in the education system, for entrepreneurs

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out in the world and for a culturally diverse world. And so it's just bringing that awareness.

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And so your work has done that in so many great ways. And again, I just want to say thank you for,

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for, for all of that. And so with that, though, like, this is kind of falls right into this,

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but what do you want to give back to the world? What, what is that legacy that you, that you want

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to leave? I mean, so I guess what I, what I want to, what I want to have been known for is someone

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who tried to make a difference in this area, you know, some, like, there's so many people doing so

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many, so many great things, especially in this space. And in this space called, I want to make

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sure that as many people as I possibly can reach know without a shadow of a doubt, which is very

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ambitious, because belonging is a feeling and it's there and it's gone, and then it's there and then

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it's gone, right? So it's not like I can, it's not like turning on a light, okay, this room's on,

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that room's on. It's not like that, you know, like you kind of have to make sure every, as many

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lights stay on as possible. But my mission is to really touch as many people as I can to remind

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them that they belong. And the reason why is because when we experience belonging, we then

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contribute, you know, and everyone's got something everyone, sometimes people I always say, my

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nephew from Oklahoma has the most incredible singing voice. And there's some gifts that

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I believe are obvious that I will put them in a God given gift category. Yeah, wow. And, and he

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has one of those and I believe everyone has one. And some are more noticeable than others will say,

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so when you have a great singing voice, it's like, wow, that's very obvious. He's exceptional. And

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so his job is to, in my opinion, make sure that he takes that gift and gives it away to as many

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people as he possibly can. But he'd have to own and embrace that he belongs in the world of

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professional singers, right? But if he doesn't do it, because he feels like someone like me

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could never be someone like that, then we like quote unquote, the world miss out on on being

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moved from hearing his voice, you know, like there's some art, there's some music, where it's

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music, where it makes people cry because it touches our hearts, right? Some people are meant to do

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that. And we all since we all have a gift like that to give. And since people will decide, I

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don't belong in a place, someone like me doesn't belong in a place like that doing that thing.

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Then I am here to disrupt that. I'm here to say, No, you actually are. But my saying that doesn't

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make as much of a difference as them believing that that is so powerful. Yeah. So the work that

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I do is basically trying to make you believe it. You know, that's such a great way to put it,

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because you're absolutely right, we have to be willing to assume our greatness. And then it's so

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crazy how we kind of have our own almost just sabotage ourselves in ways because we don't

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believe that we belong. And yet sometimes that's exactly the message that we're trying to share

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with others, but yet we don't internalize that ourselves. And then therefore we limit ourselves

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in ways that we can create greater impact in positive ways in the world. Thank you for reminding

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us to assume our greatness and to share it with everyone and to believe that we do belong. Yes.

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And there's like this beautiful tension with that. If I didn't feel the tension myself,

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my whole life, then I wouldn't have been so incredibly motivated by the time I decided

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I'm going to do this. I don't know what it's going to take. And if you watch the film, you'll know

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that I had to make some personal sacrifices to make the film. But if that tension didn't exist

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between where I thought I belonged and where I didn't, right, and what I thought my life was for,

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and what I believed I had the capacity to do, then I wouldn't have created such

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such like tension, right, until finally it snapped. And I just, I just allowed myself

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to take on like the assignment as they say, right? Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I don't,

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I still don't know how to do this. But I know that this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

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And then that guided me to my lessons and growth. And so now I can be hopefully relatable to people,

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which is why Stay at Home Mom is the first thing you'll read in my bio, because I relate to other

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Stay at Home Moms and moms in general, you know, like I'm a human being that did something

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extraordinary, because it was so out of my comfort zone. And you need to know that so that, and you

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meaning the collective view, that's you listening to this. Yeah, you need to know that because

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there's nothing different about me than any other ordinary person. It's just I decided to listen to

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that voice and to decide I was good enough every moment that I was challenged and believed that I

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wasn't. Wow. I often find myself sometimes in that same category that I can go out and try to help

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people and try to talk about communities of inclusion and things that we can do in this

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world to make it better. But then I feel like but as a gay man in Oklahoma, or as this or that,

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that maybe I don't belong and I have to, you know, like, I have to, you know, I'm a constant work

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in progress to I'm constantly trying to grow from that. But I remember that there was a time for me

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whenever I did feel that tension, like what you're explaining, I did feel that I had in. And it was

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that tension that allowed me to have the passion that I do have and also create more levels of

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empathy within myself to try to be more understanding. But it was that tension that made me just kind of

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break free where I had, you know, basically, so like enough is enough, I have to be me authentically

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100% to be the best version of me because I have a gift also to share with people, we all have a

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special something to share with people. But when was that moment for you? If you do you remember

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that moment where you were just like, I gotta go like, change the world right now, because that

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tension has broken me. Yeah, yeah. So I would like to talk about two moments. So the moment that I

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had the idea to make the film was very, and then the moment that I decided to actually make it,

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because they were 17 years apart. So the night that I decided to make the film, I was a single

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woman living in Miami, and I was out at a bar with a bunch of friends. And there was nothing,

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there was nothing different about this night that we weren't celebrating anything, we're just a bunch

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of friends, like, hey, we're all meeting at this time at this place. And we just were getting

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together, right. And so, so we're literally just talking and I make a joke, like we were doing what

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Latinos do, or first gens do. We were making fun of our parents accents. This is interesting.

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And if you're first gen, if you have a parent from another country, you're very good at imitating

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their accent, you know, just for entertainment, you know. And so anyway, we were doing that. And

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then the conversation started evolving. So we were having, you know, having fun joking and laughing

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about how our parents pronounce certain things. And then someone started saying, have you ever

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felt like you didn't belong like in Puerto Rico, like in my case, like you weren't Puerto Rican

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enough. And like with, you know, and living in New York, for me, like, I didn't feel accepted by like

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the mainstream culture that I grew up in. And people started agreeing like, yeah, I felt like

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that. Or my parents are from Cuba or Venezuela or whatever country. And when they went back to that

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homeland, they didn't feel that nationality enough. And it was one of those moments that it seemed to

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be like in slow motion. And because I was totally present, listening, and hearing other people put

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into words the way that I felt my entire life, which was, you know, that saying, ni de aqui,

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ni de allá. Like, I didn't hear that until much later. But that's how I felt. I am not from here,

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and I'm not from there. And I don't feel good enough here, or from there. And instead of those

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two places feeling like twice as good, which I think that a lot of people will say, and if you're

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listening, and you say that, I forgive you for saying it, but it really doesn't help. In many

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ways, it makes things worse. And here's why. Because the person, I'm going to speak for all

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people, right? I am right now. And there's always exceptions. And the reason why I can speak for

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all people is because I've spoken to quite a few people. And so I have a good sense for the

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community. And because I don't feel it, and that's not my experience, then being told you're

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actually twice as good made me feel like, well, then what's wrong with me? Because I'm supposed

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to feel twice as good as this. I feel twice as bad now for even hearing it at all. And so that night,

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my world went from I don't belong, no one understands me, no one, I couldn't possibly

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talk about this. I don't have words to talk about this. And there wasn't YouTube or TikTok,

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or Facebook or Instagram. There was no social media at that time. It was the 90s. And so I

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couldn't Google anything. I couldn't find any stories outside of literature. And even those

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places didn't really talk about it with the candor that was being spoken about it that night.

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And like this, I realized, I belong. I'm not alone. Are you kidding me? And this feeling

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rushed through my body. And I can't explain it more than I literally felt like 100%.

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I need to make as many other people feel the way I do. No matter what, this is what I'm here to do.

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And it has to be a movie. And I wasn't a filmmaker. I was a graphic designer, working in a room by

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myself, never had training. But I knew that I needed to make a movie about it. And then I

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got napkins out and I started writing on napkins and asking my friends, wait, what did you say?

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How did you just say that? And I walked home or back to my car with the napkins and drove back to

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Coconut Grove, knowing at 26 what my life was supposed to be about. It was the most amazing

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feeling. But the kicker is, is that by the time I got home, I had convinced myself I wasn't good

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enough. And I use the same, I call them the old reliable things, all the things that you know,

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the devil, the angel, right? So like the angel, that's like our besties. They're like the ones

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that are like, yes, go, you could do it. I could see it. Oh my gosh, right? That's the angel.

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And we all need, all of our friends need to be angels. The devil was like, what are you thinking?

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Like, you've never done this. Who do you think you are? You can't even speak Spanish fluently.

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You're not even a good Latino, right? Because of all the things that I didn't feel enough about.

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And then my joke is, if you're Latino, you also have your mother on your shoulder.

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See, I didn't put you to go through college for this. What do you want? You're going to go to film

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school now? But you know, why don't you just take a job of what you got your degree in, you know?

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And so by the time I got home, there was no way that I could do this. And the only reason why

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17 years later I decided was because it wouldn't leave me alone. The idea would not leave me alone.

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And I'm like getting chills on my arms just telling you all over my body, because I remember

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I only saw a world where this was needed. And so, but my fears were bigger than my dream.

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And it wasn't until the day that I decided, basta, I'm doing this, that I set myself off on the

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course. But the thing that is really important for people to hear is that I didn't go to film

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school. I didn't even pick up a book about filmmaking. I didn't, YouTube was out. I hadn't

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watched a single movie or any kind of education about filmmaking. So that knowledge, in my case,

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which is what I was putting between me and doing it, was of no consequence. I did it anyway.

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Yeah. It didn't matter. You didn't need that.

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I didn't need that. No, I didn't need that.

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That's just a skill that we, you know, to maybe that's just maybe a connector to something. But

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what you were doing though, I mean, that is that's mission work, for lack of a better word,

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that is really changing people's lives and letting them know that they do belong and that there is

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worth there. Yeah.

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17 years though of waiting. I mean, you all can't see me, but I got a little just teary eyed with

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this. I mean, it's like the work that you're doing. It's you know, like you wake up every day and you

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know what you're supposed to be doing. And you might not have known how, but the how didn't

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matter. You could figure out the how you can learn. Right? There are books, there are places to go to

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learn. Like this is not what's in the way. I had to get to the point though, where I also

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just had to say, I don't care if I lose everything. I get it. And that saying, I don't care if I lose

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everything is the biggest freedom you can have to be your everything. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

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Snap it out. Yes. I don't want to ruin the movie, but if you see the film, you know, yes, that I did

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lose some pretty significant things. Nothing important though. I didn't lose anything important.

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Exactly. And, and but the and there were choices I decided to, I decided to do some things so I

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could be more freer financially, we'll put it that way. And you could see, look, I'm wearing a ring

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now. So my husband and I just got new wedding rings. We had I'll just thank you. So my husband

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and I sold our wedding rings so I could afford to keep making the film. And that was years ago.

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And it was a big decision. It was a very fast decision. Now once I realized like, oh my gosh,

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we're not going to have enough. And I thought, what can we sell our rings? And that's what we

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did. And luckily, I married to somebody who was all in on this and on me and that knew that

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and believed in me, right. And so it was mortifying to sell the rings. However, I have a saying now,

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something that I say now, which was rings do not a good marriage make. And I had a chance to

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learn that for reals in the time between we sold them and the time that we bought the new ones,

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which was last late last summer, I think, and it was so meaningful to the both of us. And, and it

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wasn't like a financial decision, I partly thought maybe we shouldn't get them because I feel like

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things are going so well. You don't want to jinx anything. My marriage. But then like,

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then like, the rings is one thing, but by new one. Yeah, I don't know.

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The thing is they were good before, right? Which is the only reason why he would be willing to

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of course, what a great partner to it was. Yeah, it was great. And so we went out to lunch,

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we picked up the rings, we went out to lunch, and I was like, wow, like, it just felt so good,

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you know, things work out. Yeah, it's really work out. And they're now just symbols of things

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having worked out. Selling material things like rings is nothing in comparison to selling your

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identity. Oh, my God. Giving up on that. Wow. Yes. Yes. I mean, and we do that so often and so many

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times. Yeah. Wow. I love that you just said that. It just came up in the moment, I guess. But wow,

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but I mean, as you're saying that I'm thinking about with my partner, not actually married right

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now, hopefully, maybe soon listeners. But I mean, we, to be completely honest, one of my friends had

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opened up a vape shop and we went for his grand opening and there was a little band and someone

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that was just making rings. They're on the side, they were like, five, $10. And so we made it.

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And then we're just wearing like these rings. People think, are you guys married? Those are

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your rings? I say, no, I mean, these are just little cheapo rings. But then you wear it forever.

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You're like, it's the symbol. It's what matters. It's that love. And so we don't have the piece of

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paper, but we have that love. You have the piece of paper, you have that love. You sell the ring,

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you have that love, whatever. But you really stop and you look back, at least myself, I can speak

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for myself and realize those are really just material things that like you said, so are,

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they're just symbols of something greater. But how just incredible that you have a partner

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that supports you that much. Congratulations on that. That is incredible. Thank you.

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Do you remember though, whenever you were, and this isn't on here at all, but just thinking about

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it, is there any specific comment that you remember from that night that you were with your

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your friends, your girlfriends, right? And you wrote down on the napkins, like,

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is there is one like one comment that just kind of stood out or anything in particular?

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Well, so the one where it was, have you ever felt like you're not Puerto Rican enough?

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You know, and I had never thought of, I mean, I've never said those words. It's funny, these

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feelings that I talk about so easily with you, and that I know you're familiar with because of the

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work that you do, are so internalized at one point in someone's experience, that, you know,

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without social media, it didn't enter my world until I was 26, where now it's getting into maybe

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a 10 year old's TikTok or 15 year olds TikTok or what have you, you know, people talk about that

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a lot now. But back then, there just wasn't any access to those kind of conversations.

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And so that her saying that stopped me in my tracks. Because when we believe, the thing is,

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we don't believe, or that when people say, what are your negative belief systems about money,

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let's say, you know, people say that, what are your negative belief systems about whatever?

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And it's an impossible task for me to tell you, because I still believe them. And they're not

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classified as negative. They're classified as beliefs, things I believe is true. So that I,

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how can I peel myself away from my own beliefs, right? Until someone says something so true,

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that all of a sudden, we slip out of reality, like a water flying out of the water, let's say,

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right? All of a sudden, the fish is out of water, the fish is out of water. And it's like, wow,

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I'm swimming in water. But before they know it, they're back in the water. So that's what that

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moment was for me. It was this moment of great insight. And then the feelings rushed in, like

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I'd never experienced, I'm not alone. And they were so profound, that I'd never experienced

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anything like it ever before or since. And here's the most fascinating thing is, and there's science

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and research that backs what I'm about to say, is the reason why I immediately wanted to make a movie

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is because when someone experiences belonging, like, like real belonging, they want to give it away,

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because they realize it's like having too much fruit. Take it, how about you want an apple? Take

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an apple. I have so many, I have more than I could possibly eat. Right? It's like that feeling, like

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I have so much, you need to enjoy this right now too. But we can't, that's not even intellectual.

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It happens automatically. Right. And that's why belonging is such a beautiful thing, because if

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people experience it, they immediately want to contribute. And so what would a world be like if

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those of us who didn't feel belonging felt it? What, how could we, I mean, like, the kind of

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quantum leaps that would happen in industry are amazing. So that's what I devote my life to. And

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I think it's extraordinarily worthwhile. And the thing that makes it and keeps it interesting is

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that, like I said, it's not like a light. It is like, it's like a light that's turning on and off

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all day long. Right? So how do we keep it on is the question. So that's what fascinates me.

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It's so powerful and making, you know, a true connection for myself in this is that, and for

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anyone out there listening who also identifies as part of the LGBTQIA plus community, you know,

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there are comments that are made sometimes about, for example, and there was, my partner was in a

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conversation discussing blood types. And, and he was like, I don't know my blood type. And I actually

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don't know my blood type either. Really? But the reason behind that is because we're not allowed

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to donate blood. What? Yeah. Openly gay men, not plasma, blood, anything like that, even though it

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goes through a ton of tests. And so, I mean, I could go back and look at my birth certificate

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and, you know, look at my records and figure out what that is. But it was in a moment that whenever

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he was having this conversation with me that we were both really identifying the fact that we,

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we don't even know our blood type necessarily, which is, was really crazy to just consider and

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think about because we don't, we can't donate at the Red Cross. We can't go to, you know,

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a plasma center and donate. And so it was, you know, you don't, you feel like othered, you know,

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like definitely othered, like really pushed out. Anyhow, but in that comment though, there was,

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and there was a great conversation around this. And so sometimes like, I love to have these

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conversations because they get to be real difficult sometimes, but there was a comment made because he

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just has like perfect amazing hair all the time. And so stereotypically gay, right? Like that was

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the thing. And so the comment was, well, maybe if you just, you know, mess up your hair a little bit,

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therefore stereotypically straight, you'd be able to donate. But it was said like jokingly until the

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person realized like, Ooh, like maybe that, so then there was a really good conversation about

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that. So the point being is that there were two amazing people that had very open minds that were

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able, that were found themselves in a moment to come together to, you know, talk about

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belonging, you know, culture and things like that. What you are experiencing or did experience,

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I think, well, maybe still, I think we're, I mean, maybe we're always kind of on this continuum

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experiencing these things. But it really goes into, like you said, belonging, tell us more about

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belonging and then the book belonging that you're writing and how all this kind of does connect

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together. Yeah. So right before the pandemic, I call it a phenomenon. And because I was pretty

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much only invited to educational events where people were focused on the EL community, English

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language learners, the teachers that were teaching those students, the administrators, that whole

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world really embraced that was like phase one of embracing my work. And then it was ERG groups. So

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employee resource groups, resource groups. So, you know, affinity groups within these companies,

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however big or small there are kind of like clubs, they were inviting me to come speak. And I was,

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I remember thinking for the first Hispanic Heritage Month that I was invited to, someone said,

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Hey, can you speak at our company over Hispanic Heritage Month? And I was like, yeah, when's

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Hispanic Heritage Month? It's funny that I had no idea. Oh, my goodness. And, but you know,

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things have changed, right? I wonder if I wasn't doing this. I didn't expect you to say that. So

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that got me off guard. I'm so ironic. But I really didn't know. Or iconic. There. I'll take that.

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I'll take that. But, but yeah, no, I didn't know when it was. And, and so why would oh, yeah, so,

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so before the pandemic, I started getting invitations to speak to broader audiences,

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and I call those broader audiences more diverse, because I was pretty much only talking before that

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to education, and then Latinos, right? And then people from outside the community started inviting

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me in. And they started appreciating nuanced stories. But more than that, they started appreciating

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stories of someone's lived experience. And they started realizing that even though, and this was

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a surprise to me, even though my film is very specifically about what it's like to be first

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gen in the United States, and it's not political, so very creative, right? It's really an identity

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piece about that. Because it was about something so specific, it felt like it was for a much bigger

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group. And that's and again, I had no idea that the best storytelling is about something uber

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specific, so that the group can connect to it had no idea that that would happen. And so,

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and then George Floyd happened. And then people were forced to pay attention in areas where they

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were just maybe moving their eyes away from now, the, you know, at large, people were having to

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look at my work, just as they were having to look at a lot of other people's work, right?

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And it was during that time, really right before the pandemic that I identified my work is about

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belonging. Because how I articulated it was, I'm here to make sure that every last person that I

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meet knows they're not alone. And another way of putting it is, you belong. And I made that jump,

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I don't know how, but I realized if I center my work around belonging, I can get on bigger stages,

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and I can talk about my findings in the first gen Latino community to a broad audience. And I

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can gift this conversation and really the the opportunity to spark other conversations, because

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I'm I show up, I talk, I hang, and then I go. And really, what my hope is, is that people will

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let contemplate, percolate, discuss, and change things as a result of new ideas and new thinking,

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new ideas and new thinking that they had while they were hearing me speak, right? And so,

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after the pandemic, the my focus, my branding, my positioning, I'm on speaking of continuums,

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I continue to sharpen which is why I launched my brand new podcast called the magic of belonging.

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Because I really want to center everything on let me teach you how let me teach you about

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belonging, let me teach you how to create it. And let me teach you like the elements and why

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it's good for business, right? It's good. And the thing is, education, it gives us a lot of

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information. There's a lot of research in education, which I talk about something called positive

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interdependence, which is literally like that's like education, you know, that's like, you know,

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people researching the best outcomes with kids. And if they can experience positive interdependence

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in the elementary school years, they will go on to live happy, awesome lives of contribution and

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awesomeness. So how come no one's taking that research and bringing it to the rest of the world?

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Yeah, that's what I am doing. I'm introducing that idea. And I call it like the ultimate,

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I got your back. That's fantastic. But like, that's what it looks like in corporate America,

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you know, when when when we all get that unless each of us are successful, none of us are successful.

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That's, that's the idea. And so I try to explain that. And, and hopefully inspire

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companies to think how can we create that here, you know,

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all of us are so incredibly unique, right. And so I always try to consider what like

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intercultural connectivity can look like in such a place where we get beyond just advocacy,

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but it's truly, of course, advocacy is a huge part of that, but the allyship part,

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yeah, you know, to understand like my success is your success, and your success is my success,

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and our success helps the student success, for example. And so understanding that and how we

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all belong in this fear, and there's a place for all of us. Yes. And a need and a need for all of

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us. Yeah, a need for people that don't think like me a need for someone that can push my thinking a

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little bit as well. That's why I love having these conversations, because it makes me continue to

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grow because I know I don't have all the answers. I appreciate you getting to be here so I can

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continue to learn more and you get to teach me more about belonging. But no, it's really,

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really important and really special, not just in the pre K through 12 sector, but like you said,

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in the business world, and we do have research that shows that whenever we have a multicultural

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or a multi diverse group or organization, that the outcomes are always higher. Right. So not only can

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it be beneficial for businesses, for, you know, economic financial purposes, but it also is just

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helping with like basic human rights. Right. I mean, just basic belonging. Yes. Like you are

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special, you are wonderful, exactly as you are. Yeah. Just be respectful and nice. Yeah. Well,

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you know, it's interesting when I really get like that idea. I'm only nice because I'm in touch with

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the only other emotion that's next, which is love. So how could someone that's in touch with their

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most loving self not be nice? And so that's what I just said this on a stage in Chicago.

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I was explaining all the stuff and I don't know, like I being on these stages, I have this bizarre

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feeling like I'm a total empath. And the only way that I am at my best is when I am the most open,

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which makes me extraordinarily vulnerable. And the gift is I can sometimes feel the audience. And I

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was like, wow, I feel like they're going to get this if I say this, right? This is the chatter

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that's going on in my head as I'm delivering my keynote. And I said, so if you're wondering,

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for those of you who are wondering in the audience, if I'm talking about love, I am right.

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The longing is about love. Belonging is what love is, what belonging feels like. And,

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and it landed, you know, and that's, that's what we're talking about. So like, you don't have to

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teach someone to be kind when they're in a space of love, they just will be kind. How do you

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best love yourself? Well, you know what, doing this work, it's a constant reminder. So the,

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I can't, you know, I'm just like everybody else being human, and, you know, having areas where

371
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I could do better. And so it's great to have a community of people around me that echo,

372
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:56,880
echo some of the things I say to them. So I actually have a, have a mastermind that I lead,

373
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:04,800
where I help ambitious Latinas just like boss up, get their dreams into reality. And I, and

374
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:15,840
they are like precious little gems in my life, constantly reflecting to me what it looks like

375
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:22,320
to embody this work. And so I, I feel like I have to be my best in a way in the best way possible,

376
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:28,080
like no pressure, but embody what you say, because they're watching you. Yeah. And what if you're

377
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,080
trying to coach them and you're not embodying this, then they're not going to believe you,

378
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:38,560
you know, you seriously, whenever you're in this line of work, you have got to practice exactly

379
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:44,080
what you preach, because you are the model, you are the exemplar for this. And that's a heavy

380
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:49,040
weight to carry sometimes, but it's one that we must assume, if we're truly going to try to impact

381
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:54,560
this world in a positive way through the understanding of how wonderful diversity is and

382
00:38:54,560 --> 00:39:01,520
how that diversity really brings us so much unity. Yes. 100%. I love it. Oh, I love it so much too.

383
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:08,560
So, but I think I can relate also to what you're saying in the aspect of like, whenever you're

384
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:13,360
kind of finished doing that speech, or you've talked to the audience, whenever I'm able to be

385
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:18,000
in a professional development or giving a training or just talking with someone on the street or

386
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:23,280
whatever that is, it's afterwards, like there's this moment where I just felt like this huge amount

387
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:28,320
of gratitude that I was able to, to one, learn from the other person, but two, to hopefully

388
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:34,560
be a positive impact for that person to remind them how special and unique they are. Yes. You

389
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:41,760
know, that's that belonging truly is so powerful. And I think it helps us be more belonging in our

390
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:47,840
own selves. I'm more aware of who we are, not just our cultures, but just, you know, truly who we are

391
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:55,120
deep inside of ourselves and how that can help impact the world in such a greater and better way

392
00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:00,240
whenever we can love ourselves more. Yes. If you don't love yourself, how are you going to love

393
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:04,640
anybody else? Yeah. You know, we've heard that before. And like practically speaking, like,

394
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,720
what does that look like? Right. So here's a practical example, because the way I see it

395
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:16,640
is belonging is a two-way street. In one way, it's my job in places and spaces that I want to be.

396
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:23,360
It's my job to get myself in a mental and emotional place to own that place at the table. Right? So I

397
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:31,200
went to pitch my second film idea to HBO. And when I, in New York City, and when I was interacting

398
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:36,400
with the gal, the executive assistant of the person we were going to pitch, she said, okay,

399
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:41,600
after you get your badge, come up to the whatever floor. And then you'll see the Wonder Woman costume

400
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:47,600
in the case and then make a right there. And then you'll see all the costumes from Chernobyl go down

401
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:53,840
that hallway. And I'm like, holy moly. You know, and I'm like, oh my gosh, there's a Wonder Woman

402
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:59,040
costume, like the Wonder Woman costume. And then there's all the stuff from Chernobyl and like,

403
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:04,240
and then the big room that we were in. And it's like, I had to do my breathing exercises, which is

404
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:10,560
really what I do. Like, it's a practical way that I connect and ground myself in my own belonging.

405
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,360
You know, it's there's that, you know, looking yourself in the mirror, repeating whatever

406
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:20,080
affirmations. And for me, it's the putting in my hand on my heart and really believing and like

407
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:27,920
centering myself in what I'm most grateful for in my life. That's what gets me centered. That's my job.

408
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:34,000
Right? Because there are places and spaces that listeners right now feel like they want to

409
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:40,560
exist in. And they don't realize that there's something that you can do. You know, there's

410
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:47,040
something you can do to believe that you belong there more and to quiet the crazy thoughts in your

411
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:53,680
mind. And the second is, how can we help people feel and experience belonging? How can I set the

412
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:58,080
table so that people will feel welcome? How can I greet people at the door? I have a joke about

413
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:04,000
my Oklahoma family, my in-laws. And my joke is because I'm Puerto Rican. So when Puerto Rican

414
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:11,440
knocks on the door at their family's house, everybody gets up. Yeah. And they greet you.

415
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:16,000
And they love it's like they love you. They smother you with the love, you know, and there's like

416
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:23,360
this expectation that every single person will be acknowledged. So growing up, I had to kiss on the

417
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:30,720
cheek every single person in the house before I went to the bathroom, and before I got myself

418
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:35,840
anything to eat or drink. It's just how it was done. And even though, you know, things probably

419
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:41,840
change for the better in that area, and some areas, it's, it's good. It's a good practice to

420
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:46,320
acknowledge each and every human being that's existing in the space, right? And how can we do

421
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:52,320
that for others? So how can we set the space for others? Because my Oklahoma family, my

422
00:42:52,320 --> 00:43:02,320
Oklahoma family, they often don't get up when you go to the door. They often don't look away from the

423
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:07,760
television that's on. And that is, and I don't know if that's an Oklahoma thing, or if that's a

424
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:13,600
self-reliant thing, a non-Latino thing. But I remember telling my husband, like, we just drove

425
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:20,720
10 hours, and they didn't even get up, you know. And he realizes now, I call him the gringo cowboy,

426
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:26,400
he's my husband from Oklahoma. But like, he realizes now, like, yeah, it's nice when people

427
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,800
are greeted with love, right? And so how can you create that space? So what was your question?

428
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,880
Because I was answering a really good question. Do you remember?

429
00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:36,320
I think you're answering it truly.

430
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:37,680
Yeah, wait, what was it?

431
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:43,120
Well, talking about how, I mean, coming back to this, you know, belonging in ourselves and loving

432
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:43,360
ourselves.

433
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:49,200
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, those two things have to be present, right? That's how you create

434
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,360
it. It's not just all my responsibility, and it's not just all your responsibility. Because

435
00:43:54,720 --> 00:44:01,280
for 17 years, I made a decision, I don't belong in rooms like that. I have this great idea,

436
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:07,280
but someone like me doesn't belong in a place like that. So I self-selected myself out of that. And,

437
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:14,000
you know, there is, there are structural things. Yes, there are structural barriers. And the only

438
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:20,000
way we get through those of us who feel ready, okay, because some won't feel ready in this minute,

439
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:26,800
but one day you might. Taking responsibility for how you bring yourself into that space,

440
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:32,400
so that you own the space that you're occupying, and you're calm, and you're passionate, and you're

441
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:38,000
confident, right? That's your responsibility. And then it's my responsibility as a person that's

442
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:43,120
greeting you to make you feel amazing, so that you can do your best work. So it's really those two

443
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,280
things. And that I did say that to answer something, and I hope that makes a difference

444
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:51,280
for somebody, because I lost my space. You said exactly what you were supposed to say.

445
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,800
Truly, whatever you said. I mean, that's what someone needed to hear. That's what our

446
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:59,680
listeners need to hear. So whomever you are out there, there you go. But it's incredible to

447
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:04,720
consider that you felt that way, but yet you were in the same room as the Wonder Woman costume.

448
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:11,680
I mean, you are a Wonder Woman. You are a wonderful woman. And you, I mean, I want to just

449
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,760
encourage our listeners, though, at the same time, to understand that you too can be in that room at

450
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,720
HBO. It doesn't matter from where you come. It doesn't matter your background. It doesn't matter

451
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:25,600
what happened five minutes ago. It matters that you know that you belong, and love yourself,

452
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:31,120
and allow yourself to belong as we help others do that exact same thing. That is very powerful.

453
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:40,560
So this is from your website, I believe, or your LinkedIn. I don't remember for sure, but it says,

454
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:45,520
fueled by her own identity crisis as a first generation American Latina born to Puerto Rican

455
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:50,800
parents in New York, Denise struggled to fit in in her surroundings. Now we've explained that,

456
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:56,000
we've talked about that, but then you also discussed straddling two cultures. And this is just

457
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:02,720
like mind boggling to me. And I just can't wait to hear. Anyhow, it says in here, the Puerto Rican

458
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:07,120
lifestyle at home. So these are the straddling two cultures, the Puerto Rican lifestyle at home,

459
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:13,680
and the American dream beyond those four walls. Denise experienced firsthand the challenges,

460
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:19,440
compromises, and inequalities that many sons and daughters of Spanish speaking immigrants go through

461
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:26,160
every day. And so whenever you consider that many of us who are not part of a dominant culture,

462
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:32,800
whether that be based on language or geographical location or gender or identity or whatever that

463
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:41,360
culture may be, if you can just speak more to that. But what was so just like, I guess if I'm

464
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,680
being honest, it's like disturbing to me. And what just like really frustrates me about all of this

465
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:50,480
is that one, why would we ever treat anyone differently as being part of the human race?

466
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:57,440
But then whenever you consider the relationship that Puerto Rico and the United States have,

467
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:07,280
it's in to be the quote unquote immigrant. I mean, it just, what's going on? Right? Like that doesn't

468
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:14,080
make any sense to me personally. And so, but I also know that I don't have those experiences.

469
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:20,480
But you have your own variety of experiences. I would say, yeah, I'll never forget the first

470
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:30,000
person that was part of the LGBTQIA plus. Did I do it right? Yes, exactly. Okay. So I feel like if

471
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:35,440
I missed a letter, let me know when they said you're literally telling my story, like your movie

472
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:41,360
just told my story, you know, about of coming out. And I was like, tell me more, tell me,

473
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:46,160
start from the beginning and just plug it in from the different parts of the film, because

474
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:51,040
that made me feel really, really good that I could make something that would validate someone else's

475
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:59,040
lived experience too. Right? So, so when we live in justices, we're just surviving them.

476
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,280
You know, like there isn't like, hang on, can I push pause? Like, is there a pause button in my

477
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:11,120
life? Yeah, like I wish, but we all know like at 10, six or younger, like we're surviving those

478
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:17,680
moments and they don't make sense to us. Like, but I think because, and I think because they're not,

479
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,840
people aren't actively talking. So like in the eighties, that's when I grew up in New York,

480
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:30,240
no one was talking about this stuff. It wasn't until a bar when I was 26. So the fact that you

481
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:35,600
do the work that you do, and that the EL teachers are out there doing the work that they do, and

482
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:40,720
they're, Taylor's doing the work that he's doing the work, this work, I think, is the

483
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:46,080
work bringing it into classrooms, into teachers and administrators and bringing it into the

484
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:51,920
vernacular and bringing in the lived experience and sharing the art that has been made to reflect

485
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:57,600
this experience to use to inspire these conversations and point to the research.

486
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:04,160
That ha, that's super important because the injustices haven't changed. Nothing much,

487
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:11,040
unfortunately, has. However, more and more people, meaning people's humanity still show, right?

488
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:16,400
People are still being raised by people that will say, actually, no, you're not American,

489
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,640
or you are American. You know, that was the thing for me when I grew up. I would say, they would

490
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,720
say, what are you? Which is very insulting to a lot of people. I was gonna say already, I'm like,

491
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:31,760
what? Yeah. And like for me growing up, it was a pain point for me. But, but for a lot of people,

492
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:40,400
they just get very mad about it. I am, I am one of the only people out there that I have, I take

493
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:48,320
no offense to being asked that question. However, I remember the conversation and the comments

494
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:53,920
afterwards. Yeah. Those were always the hardest ones. And again, if someone brings them up now,

495
00:49:53,920 --> 00:50:00,160
which no one does, of course, because I'm not triggered by them anymore. But I'm like, come on,

496
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,240
somebody, please bring this up so I can school you on what you just said, but no one will ever bring

497
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:09,360
it up. And that is, people would say, what are you? And I would say, I'm Puerto Rican. And then they

498
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:13,120
would say, you know, you're not, you're American. And then I would say, and instead of just bringing

499
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:18,720
up the sordid history that America has with Puerto Rico, I was, I was 10, you know, or younger, or

500
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:23,920
just a little bit older. I didn't have the intellectual capacity to bring up those arguments,

501
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:29,600
right? Like I was still figuring out who I was. And so we don't have those tools. And we don't

502
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:35,520
have the maturity. I mean, let's face it, people that are my age are still more pissed and get

503
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:40,320
triggered, which guess what, I get triggered too. So like, I'm not, I'm not hating on people that

504
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:47,200
get triggered. But an inordinate amount of people get triggered by the what are you question. I think,

505
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:52,320
I think that one is, is good to kind of put to bed. Like, let's, let's just answer it and be

506
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:57,120
willing to be in the conversation about it. Yeah, because it's like, because if we're triggered,

507
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:01,040
that means that we're still in pain. And that means that we still have some work to do. And the only

508
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,600
reason why I am okay with that question now is because I've done the work, right? Doesn't make

509
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:11,360
me better. It just means that there's one less thing that I get upset about easily. And as a,

510
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:18,240
I don't know, a culture and ethnicity, I feel we, you know, and maybe there are people listening,

511
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:24,400
like I loved her until she said that now I don't love her. But I think we, we could use some,

512
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:32,000
you know, like, let's stop, let's, let's stop for a minute and see what we where we can grow

513
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:37,040
in that area, mostly for ourselves. I'd like to not, you know, it's like the guy in the car

514
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:43,760
that's driving, you know, but beeping the horn, like right outside today, my husband stopped for

515
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:49,040
two minutes to let me out in front of the building, two minutes. And my 13 year old daughter had to

516
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:54,720
get out from the backseat to the front seat. But there was someone behind him that just, she just

517
00:51:54,720 --> 00:52:00,720
was like on the horn. Boom, you know, I'm like, what are we in New York City at a light here, like

518
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:07,680
two minutes, that's it. But, but it's like that level of triggering, right, is what happened.

519
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:13,680
That's the level that some people get. They get so offended by being asked, what are you?

520
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:19,360
But the opportunity is, what do you think I am? Like, let's talk about this. Like, what are you?

521
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:24,400
Oh, let me tell you, Latino can look all different ways. Like the conversation that happens after,

522
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:30,000
if I don't get pissed at you and personally offended, is really magical, right? Yeah. So

523
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:34,720
let's have those. And even if you are personally offended, and if that does happen, try to,

524
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:39,920
you know, process it for a minute. So you, but to allow yourself to have that opportunity. Because

525
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:45,440
if we don't have these conversations, if we don't try to educate people and learn from other people

526
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:52,800
at the exact same time, and to listen for understanding, as opposed to, you know, to respond

527
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:57,520
and things of that nature, so we can actually have these conversations. And as you're talking

528
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:02,560
about this, I really can kind of compare it to, or I had this thought, I'm like, everyone kind of

529
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:10,320
has their coming out story, you know, and it may be coming out of the closet. It could be coming out

530
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:18,480
of 17 years of denying your space and your belonging to where that is. And that just really

531
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:24,320
was impactful for me right now to hear that and to think like, we all have a moment of coming out

532
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:29,520
in this realization. But then I think it's doing what you're talking about right now. It's one step

533
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:36,080
further. And that's really having the mindset where we can have open, hard conversations without

534
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,920
being triggered. And if we are to learn how to manage that, because that's going to be a natural

535
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:45,440
thing that'll happen. But the more that you process that and deal with that, it does go away more.

536
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:52,240
People can ask me very pointed questions. And I'm at the point now where I say, ask me any question

537
00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:58,080
you have. I'm an open book. I'm going to make this like a, this is a total judgment free zone. I want

538
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:02,000
you to ask me because if I ask me anything right now, before you go out and do something else,

539
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:08,000
because I'll be your safe space. But I had to understand myself and be okay enough with who I

540
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:15,280
am for them to ask me very kind of sometimes very weird and inappropriate questions. But I also knew

541
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:22,160
that it was advancing their understanding of something deeper that was apart from me. It was

542
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:28,640
just community and communities overall. It was really important. Yeah. And it's really a gift

543
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:34,080
that you give to others. And exactly what you just said, you have to give it to yourself first. And

544
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:38,560
sometimes it does mean, oh, I'm going to feel bad throughout this whole conversation. But what's

545
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:44,080
weird is you don't have to feel bad in too many of them before you realize I'm okay. I didn't die.

546
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:50,160
And that was actually a really interesting conversation. You know, like I'm closer now

547
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:54,960
to my adversary, because immediately it feels so adversarial. Like I hate that person

548
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:01,840
for asking me that because it means this, this and this. But what about if it didn't mean that?

549
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:06,240
What about if that was all going on in your head? And I'm not saying that some of those people

550
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:12,880
weren't trying to be adversarial, because I recognize that that happens too. And that's why

551
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:18,080
I said it's a question of readiness. Some people are plain old aren't ready. But at some point,

552
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:23,680
you may be ready. Right. You know, and that's when you decide, I'm gonna I'm gonna look at this,

553
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,480
you know, look at this trigger today, I'm willing to, I'm willing to do that.

554
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,720
It can be very therapeutic. And it lets you learn so much more just about yourself,

555
00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:35,840
which I think helps again, with the whole idea and the aspect of belonging to self and belonging

556
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:41,760
in this amazing world in which we live. And we have opportunity to always make it a greater

557
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:46,960
and better place without honking horns. Yeah, seriously, things like that. But when you said

558
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:53,200
we're all we all come out, like one of the things that I found super interesting was people, I don't

559
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:57,920
know, at some point, someone said, you probably have always embraced your Latina dad, you probably

560
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:05,040
have always been someone like that. And I was like, I was absolutely not one of those people. And a

561
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:12,400
lot because I didn't feel like I was enough. And so I totally like any job that I had before project

562
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:19,920
any any job I had before I made this film. Nobody knew that I was Latino. That is no one knew.

563
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:26,480
Yeah, no, we so we were talking before a little bit about how I mean, I guess that was the word,

564
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:30,960
obviously, yes, if you're if you are, will you will you discuss that a little bit again that

565
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:37,600
you're talking about, like how that came up? Yeah, so that this is something that in this work, so

566
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:45,840
free film, this never happened because I wasn't out yet. But then I was out when I came out

567
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:54,160
as Latina and as a filmmaker and as someone this crusader, right? Yeah, for people's identities and

568
00:56:54,160 --> 00:57:00,720
belonging and their identities. That's when people would begin to come up to me and tell me well,

569
00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:04,640
and it started happening at the education conferences. But honestly, it happened just

570
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:10,320
the other day at a consulting client. And it would that people would come up to me and say,

571
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:18,960
Well, I'm obviously not Latina. And I and I would, you know, like that always sounded like a weird

572
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:25,680
comment, like, like Latino, like I'm not stereotypical. Right? What is the connection?

573
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:32,080
Like even what is there? What? How do you define stereotypical? Right? You know? And so, you know,

574
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:38,000
and I remarked back to the gal that told me the other day, the only thing that isn't obvious is

575
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:43,600
that you don't have a Spanish accent. But if I were just to look at you, I would not know actually,

576
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:48,320
if you were and if you weren't. So just so you know, I wasn't offended or triggered. I'm like,

577
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:52,960
this is just for your information. Yeah, there's nothing obviously not let me know about you.

578
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:59,120
And in fact, most people have a darker skin tone than I do. Say that. It's so interesting,

579
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:03,360
you know, and I'm like, look at my skin tone, my family calls me pink. I'm not even white,

580
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:08,800
I'm pink, you know, because they're all super dark. And, and any case, I am or my immediate

581
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:15,440
family is but but yeah, these assumptions around around that are fascinating. They truly are.

582
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:22,800
There are, you know, people look all different. I mean, from all different countries, like,

583
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:28,320
similar and different in so many ways. And there really is no obvious and whenever you start using,

584
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:34,320
you know, semantics, like words like that, like, obvious, obviously you are or you aren't because

585
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:40,400
of how you look, or because of an accent. I think it's a really good moment for us to stop and say,

586
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:46,240
why did I say that? Right? What is the unconscious bias or whatever I have in my head,

587
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:53,760
that you didn't necessarily mean out of a place of negativity or angst or, you know, hate even or

588
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:58,560
anything like that. But whenever you start to recognize, like, those are words that I'm using

589
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:05,200
that are enforcing and elevating, like I said before, like stereotypes or assumptions of people.

590
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:11,120
I just thank you for bringing that up, because I think it's important for us to hear ourselves

591
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:16,640
and what we say. And I know for a fact, like I said before, I am a work in progress, I all the

592
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:21,840
time know that there are moments where I might say something that is culturally destructive, and I

593
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:29,040
need to be able to be aware enough and open enough to have other people help me be better in that as

594
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:34,240
well. Yeah, like, like when I asked you if you're a Latino, I have no idea.

595
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:40,640
No, but I think that I'm gonna get a hit. Oh, my gosh. No, I like sincerely have like a lot of

596
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:45,920
Latino my salsa partner. I can see she always says, okay, just a little towel in the community,

597
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:52,480
that you know, it's always felt so great. But um, but but so, and your accent is so you know,

598
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:57,440
a lot of people ask me whenever I'm speaking like on the phone, like, are you Puerto Rican?

599
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:03,840
Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, my God. But you know, gracias. Yeah. But truly,

600
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:07,360
though, you're like, because you don't know I had it. I had a professor once in Argentina,

601
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:13,760
blonde hair, blue eyes. There you go. Yes. People ask me how I could have a redhead. I'm like, well,

602
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:20,960
I have ants on both sides of my family with red hair and green eyes. That's how like I married

603
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:25,760
a redhead. But you know, you have to have it on both sides. Yeah, I'm like, it's not you know,

604
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:30,160
but it really is regional. Like there are, and we kind of talked about this a little bit, that

605
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:37,040
there's there's this conversation in to the depth that we're having it right this, this, this is a

606
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:45,120
super powerful, awesome, rare conversation that we're having. And it requires a lot of,

607
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:51,600
I don't know, like space in your mind for it, right. And so I think there's different parts

608
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:58,000
of the country that have a certain readiness level for it. And some places that aren't as

609
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:02,720
ready to have it. And that's sometimes when I'm interviewed, when I bring up these conversations,

610
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:07,440
I'm not often talking to somebody like you that, you know, I feel like we're playing a game of

611
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:12,640
tennis, and I keep throwing balls, and you keep throwing them back. This is really interesting.

612
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,000
This is why I adore you. And I did the first time I met you.

613
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:22,720
And it's really like, so this this, you know, hour or so of conversation, I hope that it helps

614
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:28,560
people. Because there's certain people that are ready for this kind of, and I don't mean if you

615
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:34,560
don't, I don't mean to insult anyone, I'm just saying the quality of this conversation is a is

616
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:44,960
really special to me. Because I and the work that I do is very much like, I feel like I'm in sometimes

617
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:51,680
like, it's like, it's obvious that I'm not Latino, you know, like you can, I have patients for days,

618
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:58,160
years, you know, and it's also really nice to be on the way other side of the pool on the deepest

619
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:04,720
end, which is where we're swimming. And to be able to reflect on that, but also be able to talk about

620
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:08,960
some of the things that I think about and talk about and that I'm working on in my book and

621
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:15,760
the things that are important to me now, because, you know, when you're steeped in this conversation

622
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:22,160
on a daily basis, constantly hearing from people constantly interacting, there's these things that

623
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:26,960
I've been able to put together that are helpful, but they're only helpful to the extent to which

624
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:32,640
they can be heard as helpful, right? And like, doing what we're doing right now. So, A, I

625
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:39,280
appreciate it. And, and B, I'd love to tell you a little bit about my book. So, so the idea for the

626
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:45,920
book came after these screenings after I would, I was on the road going to all kinds of different

627
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:52,000
places. And, and there would be this line that forms with people. So some there's, there's two

628
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:56,880
types of people, people that are free to ask questions in front of a group. They don't care,

629
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:01,440
or even if they do, they're like, I'm doing it anyway, right? They're going to raise their hand.

630
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:06,720
They're going to ask the question. And then there are people that just can't bear to ask their

631
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:13,680
question unless they're face to face with me. And I respect both types, right? And so those people

632
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:17,360
will wait online. And then there's just the people that want to selfie and they're like, I just want

633
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:22,560
to selfie and to give you a hug and love those people too. And so what would happen? I might be

634
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:28,240
all those people. I love it. I love it. You're the one that I would go out with afterwards because

635
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:33,120
there's always that crew also. You heard it. You heard it. You all are my witnesses for going out

636
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:41,760
after this. So, so two things emerged. So the people would wait, right? And then invariably,

637
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:46,960
they would, if I could classify the things they would tell me, I would be able to put them into

638
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:52,400
two buckets and one, and I call them secrets and dreams. The dreams would be of the people that

639
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:59,040
really saw. Cause if you watch the film, I know it's, you know, as someone who also watches movies

640
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:04,800
and puts people on pedestals, I've done that too, you know? And then you see someone that you've

641
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:09,920
seen in a movie and then, and especially if you identify with my story, like I seem maybe

642
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:15,280
inaccessible or whatever, like this person that isn't like you. But as soon as you meet me and

643
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:19,440
talks to me for 10 minutes, you know, like I'm like your next door neighbor. I'm like your bestie.

644
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:23,280
Let's go out for coffee or wine or whatever. Like it doesn't take that long for people to get

645
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:28,480
that I'm like friends level person. That's literally my experience today with you.

646
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:35,520
Like you're my bestie. Thank you. So, so a lot, what will happen is if someone has an idea

647
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:40,480
percolating, this would be you before you went to your doctorate, before you went for your doctorate.

648
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:47,200
This would be you before you decided I'm going for it no matter what. Right? But in just a few

649
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:54,160
weeks, you're going to be a doctor. So like, so perhaps for your next big dream, this would happen,

650
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:59,760
but I would hear people's dreams. They would say, cause if, if someone like me, someone that they

651
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:06,000
could relate to personally could do what I did, then for them, they feel like they could do it too,

652
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:11,440
which is really cool for me to hear. So they would, I would hear their dreams and then they

653
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:16,480
would tell me what held them back though. Like I can't do it because of whatever. Like there was

654
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:22,880
a woman who told me, I really want to write a book about my life, but I'm waiting for my mother to die.

655
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:26,080
Wow. And I was like, why does she have to die?

656
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:35,600
And she said, well, no, it's actually, it's like, it's nonfiction. It's because I want to write

657
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:42,160
about what it's like to be the daughter of an incarcerated mother. And, and she said, I don't

658
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:48,320
want to, you know, people worry that when they tell their story, they don't know where their story

659
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:52,480
ends and someone begins or where their story begins and someone ends. You know, it's like these

660
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:59,600
concentric circles and there's this middle area where we have a hard time owning the whole thing

661
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:05,760
and being able to say, no, this is my story and this is my perspective. Even if my sibling had a

662
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:12,240
different story, we can still stand in our own experience of the same events. Right. But I've

663
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:18,080
gone through that process. And so, and, and, and certainly going through it again with my book now,

664
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:23,200
like thinking about those questions because I'm telling different stories now. Right. But in any

665
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:28,320
case, I would hear their dreams. And then, and then the second group, the second bucket were people

666
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:32,960
that would just share their secrets with me. And when you see the film, you're going to know, I

667
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:36,960
didn't tell anybody any secrets. I might've shared some stuff that was hard to share,

668
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:42,480
but it didn't reveal any secrets, anything that would be classified as a secret. But for whatever

669
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:49,040
reason, people came up to me and they would share their secrets with me. And those people would say,

670
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:55,840
I've always wanted to whatever, but I can't because I just feel so weighted down because of this. And

671
01:06:55,840 --> 01:07:03,040
I've never told anyone this, by the way, but they decided to tell me in a line after watching a film

672
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:10,880
and after hearing me speak. And so it was very confusing for me to understand why this was

673
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:16,880
happening and especially reconciling it with this like narrative that I have, which is I was meant

674
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:26,880
to make this movie 17 years, made the movie, but now I've got something else to do. Right. And that

675
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:30,560
didn't make sense in the narrative. Like I thought I was done. I thought I would kind of just like,

676
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:35,920
you know, like to ride this one for as long as I could ride it until until people stopped calling

677
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:43,680
me to speak is how long I was, I guess I would do this. But the next thing happened and the next

678
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:48,960
thing feels actually like the more important thing. It felt like being any of the film and that work

679
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:55,440
seemed like what needed to it felt like and feels like the groundwork. It felt like what we needed

680
01:07:55,440 --> 01:08:01,040
to talk about before we could talk about this other stuff, which is what really holds people back,

681
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:07,040
which is the secrets that we keep about our bodies, about our family, about our relationship with our

682
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:15,280
parents, about our trauma, right? About money. And those are the secrets that people were telling me.

683
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:20,880
And so then I had a major publisher reach out to me and ask me if I wanted to write a book.

684
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:26,880
And if I did, once I got on the phone with him, you know, he wanted to know what I would write it

685
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:32,640
about. And I'm like, I know exactly what I want to write it about. And it's about this. And so that

686
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:38,560
is a little departure from what I would say. My work is right now is teaching companies and

687
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:44,560
organizations and school districts how to create belonging, right? That's kind of part one. And

688
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:54,000
part two is this book where I talk about the stuff that this part, which we're balling over here.

689
01:08:54,000 --> 01:09:03,600
Sorry. And this is meaningful because we all have something that is like a 200 pound weight

690
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:08,320
around our ankle that we feel is pulling us down. And like no one else is experiencing and yet.

691
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:14,320
Right. I know that other people are. They are. Right. And I'm getting leg chills and all kind

692
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:19,760
of body chills as we're talking. And I'm seeing your response to this. And, you know, I can't

693
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:25,040
wait to read this book. Oh, thanks for saying that. And really it's for you. And it's for anyone that

694
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:32,240
ever felt like they had to hold on to something that wasn't theirs. Right. And that they can let

695
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:38,560
go of it. And I'm not, it's not to say you have to announce it to the world, but it is to say you are

696
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:46,240
not alone and I am going to be brave and share some of my biggest secrets to demonstrate that I'm okay

697
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:53,120
and invite people to share just with one person because that's what happened on those lines.

698
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:59,120
They just shared it with me and there was some relief there for them because for some reason I'm

699
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:06,560
not a therapist. I'm not anyone I would say qualified to hold the space for these. And often

700
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:12,480
when I share this, people are like, oh my gosh, you must feel so burdened. And I don't, I don't

701
01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:20,080
feel anything. All I feel is this incredible capacity to hold more. Yeah. I have no... It's almost

702
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:24,720
energizing in a way because you get to like, I feel like you're learning where you get to do more.

703
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:31,840
Like it fuels me more. Yes, it validates. I'm seeing a reflection of what people need and I,

704
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:38,960
and it didn't feel like that at first, but once I realized it, it felt like no, this is needed and

705
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:46,000
this is, this is God or the universe or however you define it. This is, I'm being told this and,

706
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:53,200
and this is now my next job. And so that's what I'm working on now. Thank you so much for listening

707
01:10:53,200 --> 01:11:00,160
to that because you've obviously you have me crying over here and connecting so much to what

708
01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:07,840
you're saying. I want you to hear this. I love you. We love you. I feel like we need to always live

709
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:13,520
with love. I love how in Spanish we're able to say things like te quiero and also te amo and how

710
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:19,440
there's some different meanings in that, that we don't necessarily have in English, but in any

711
01:11:19,440 --> 01:11:24,560
language, you know, just even through body language and a smile, just to show that love for each other

712
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:31,680
because I feel like that truly is what is going to build upon the conversations that we're having

713
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:38,800
now is to always do it with love. And so whenever we are in the deep end of the pool and we're really

714
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:43,920
the ones just swimming and having these conversations, I'll always be there to pick you

715
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:48,720
up. And I think that I believe that you would be there for me and I encourage everyone that is

716
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:53,760
having hard conversations like this to maintain those relationships that way we can always

717
01:11:54,320 --> 01:12:01,040
pick each other up whenever we are swimming so hard in that deep end for sure. Just to wrap this

718
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:06,960
up right now, we've been having such a great long conversation, but it's been so, so wonderful.

719
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:16,240
But is there anything that you would like to leave us with when it comes to just encouraging

720
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:23,280
others and helping honor who we are, our uniqueness, our identities, our languages,

721
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:29,760
our bodies, just everything about ourselves. Any last words of encouragement that we could

722
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:34,320
learn from you? Yeah, a few. I'm going to cover a few. Go for it. We're here for it.

723
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:40,080
I'm going to speak to different types of listeners. So if you were listening and you're like,

724
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:46,720
oh my gosh, that's me. I have an idea like that, but I wonder if it's the same as hers and it's

725
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:52,240
probably not. Like if you did that to yourself in the entire time of this conversation, I'm going

726
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:59,520
to tell you right now, you were right with your first thought. And so the angels are huge.

727
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:06,800
Having people in your life that think the world of you is your job. Find those people and be that

728
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:11,680
person. And if you don't have enough people in your life like that, be that person. And it's like

729
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:18,240
flies to light. They will find you. Hold on to those people. You will find a way. That is what

730
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:24,240
you're here to do. The second thing is if you're one of those people that are, I'm going to bounce

731
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:29,840
around a little bit. If you got value from the depth of this conversation and you just want to

732
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:33,920
let me know what your favorite part was, or if you want to tell me or teach me something,

733
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:40,880
please email me or follow me. Communicate with me. People find all the ways. LinkedIn, Instagram,

734
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:46,720
I'm findable. Please reach out to me and just let me know what that I said today made the most

735
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:51,360
impact so that I can get that feedback. And if you have something that you want me to know or book

736
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:58,880
you think I should read, I'm open to it. And then finally, if you have a stage or a place

737
01:13:59,440 --> 01:14:05,920
that you believe my message would resonate in, the only way to get this out outside of special

738
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:12,800
moments like this and at scale is to be live in person and having these conversations where

739
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:19,920
people can experience this. This is an experiential work that I do. And so if you think I might be

740
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:26,960
great for a stage that you go to a conference, please let me know. Recommend me for it and you

741
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:34,640
can find out all my information at deniseclercox.com and also projectenye.com and we can talk about that.

742
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:40,800
I definitely agree with everything that you said and I encourage everyone who's listening right

743
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:47,920
now to please invite Denise to your organization. She is absolutely so inspirational as you have

744
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:52,960
heard today. I was fortunate enough to hear her speak as well and she did change my life. And so

745
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:58,960
that's why I'm so humbled to be in your presence today. And thank you for just donating your time

746
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:05,760
and your energy for this whenever I know that your time is very, very valuable. Again, please

747
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:14,160
do visit her website. It is deniseclercox.com. I had mispronounced that before.

748
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:23,200
You spelled it and that was good. Yeah, deniseclercox.com. And her website is so,

749
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:29,440
first of all, incredible and wonderful. I sent it. I've seen it before, but I sent it specifically

750
01:15:29,440 --> 01:15:33,840
to my partner today to say, hey, there are some things I want to do to my website. It looks like

751
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:39,280
hers. Oh, no way. Which one? Projectenye or Denise Celler Cuffs? Denise. Yes. But I really

752
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:43,920
appreciate also how, so seriously go visit the website, go read everything about her. She's

753
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:49,760
absolutely amazing. And she does have easy access to phone calls, text, video I saw, so many awesome

754
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:55,360
things. And truly we're all in this together. So thank you so much for everyone who was listening

755
01:15:55,360 --> 01:16:02,160
today. Denise, thank you so much from the bottom of my heart. And thank you for helping us make

756
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:18,240
some awesome connections today. You're changing the world. Gracias. Of course. Thank you. All right. Bye.