Welcome to Cultural Connections Lab. I'm your host, Kelly Forbes. We are here to talk with
educational professionals around the world to impact and influence the education system as we
focus on cultural connections and the education of multilingual diverse students. We're excited
to have you join us today and we sincerely hope you enjoy the show. Greetings and welcome to
Cultural Connections Lab. My name is Kelly Forbes and I'm so excited to be with an incredible,
wonderful guest today on our podcast. I was truly talking to her just a few minutes ago
and expressing that I would love to be able to introduce her as a dear friend of mine. However,
I am just now able to really get to know this amazing guest that we have and I'm excited to
have a new friendship with her. She is someone that after being a stay-at-home mom to an award-winning
activist filmmaker, top 100 podcaster, and sought after international speaker, I am here with the
infamous Denise Soler Cox. She has her experience producing and inspiring content that sparks
meaningful and transformative dialogue. In 2020, Denise was recognized as a featured host by Apple
podcast North America for her podcast, The Selfish Latina, which has listeners in 32 countries.
Denise has been invited to speak on over 300 stages, including two TEDx talks, and has worked
with some of the world's most recognized brands like Progressive, Microsoft, AARP, Facebook,
LinkedIn, JP Morgan Chase, Salesforce, Procter & Gamble, Dow Jones, Eli Lilly, KPMG, Starbucks,
and VaynerMedia, Sony, just to name a few. Her work with Project Inye has been featured on NBC
Nightly News, Forbes.com, CNN, NBC Latino, Chicago Tribune, Telemundo, Univision, Fox News Latino,
and The Huffington Post. Denise is a distinguished member of the fourth cohort of the Stanford
Latino Leaders Entrepreneur Program and was a National Association of Latino Independent
Producers 2017 Fellow. She was honored to be selected as the 2018 recipient of the Bridge
Builder Award in Education from the Virginia Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. Denise is currently
in production with her second feature-length documentary. She just launched a brand new
podcast called The Magic of Belonging podcast, and she's also working on the forthcoming book
about belonging. I would like to also direct you to her website, which is denissoleirocox.com.
Denise, welcome to this podcast. I'm so excited. Thank you so much. And I'd like to thank everyone
who's still listening after that very long bio. It's important. That was very important. You come
with just a huge, incredible background. I'm truly honored to get to be in this space with you. And
I thank you for this space that you've created. I first got to meet you in 2018, I believe it was,
2017 or 18. I'm not quite for sure. At the Oklahoma Association for Bilingual Education
Conference. Whenever you shared the story. That was my 100th event. Did I share that that night?
You did. You did. That just came to me. That was a great night. It was fantastic. And I just
remember meeting you and Dr. Taylor Tribble, who was on our very first interview. But whenever he
was able to introduce me to you, the work that you do just really inspired me and has actually
changed my life in many ways. And I think of you often, and like I said, still wear the t-shirt
all the time. That's awesome. Thank you so much for all that you do. Thank you for supporting it.
And that makes me very happy to hear that it has made such a difference with you. Well,
I'm incredibly, incredibly grateful to have you here and excited for all of our listeners to get
to hear and learn from you just as well. But so this, tell us about this amazing journey
that you've been on as you have accomplished just so much in your life, but also this mission-based
business entrepreneur and motivational speaker turned film director. What has that impact been
on not just you personally, but also the people that you inspire, motivate and serve?
Well, so thanks for asking about that. First, I have to say that it feels really good to
just like be in a space and thinking about all of these things, not from like a pat myself on my back
feeling, but from a wow, like it feels good to look back and appreciate all the hard work and
then appreciate these like moments in time where there was acknowledgement and recognition. So
it's to answer your question, it's transformed me in all the ways that I'd hoped that it would
transform others, which I think speaks to when we feel a pull to do something with our life,
you know, to do something great, you know, something that maybe feels out of reach.
It's happening for a reason that pull is there for a reason. And if you are able to answer the
call or if you do answer the call, chances are you get lots of growth experiences that, you know,
in hindsight were very difficult, you know, as I went through them. But in hindsight, has made me,
I feel like an incredible benefactor, the best or the biggest benefactor, right? And then my hope is,
is that I can help others feel the same, you know, in their life that I have, which is that they
belong. That's incredibly important. And I appreciate your, your kind of tone in that, you
know, I feel like, like, like, whenever you speak, it's like you said, it's not about, you know, I
got my pat on the back or anything, but it's really the kind of those moments that whenever you're
able to be recognized, it's much bigger than us as individuals, it's being recognized, we're doing
this for service, for a community, for, for students in the education system, for entrepreneurs
out in the world and for a culturally diverse world. And so it's just bringing that awareness.
And so your work has done that in so many great ways. And again, I just want to say thank you for,
for, for all of that. And so with that, though, like, this is kind of falls right into this,
but what do you want to give back to the world? What, what is that legacy that you, that you want
to leave? I mean, so I guess what I, what I want to, what I want to have been known for is someone
who tried to make a difference in this area, you know, some, like, there's so many people doing so
many, so many great things, especially in this space. And in this space called, I want to make
sure that as many people as I possibly can reach know without a shadow of a doubt, which is very
ambitious, because belonging is a feeling and it's there and it's gone, and then it's there and then
it's gone, right? So it's not like I can, it's not like turning on a light, okay, this room's on,
that room's on. It's not like that, you know, like you kind of have to make sure every, as many
lights stay on as possible. But my mission is to really touch as many people as I can to remind
them that they belong. And the reason why is because when we experience belonging, we then
contribute, you know, and everyone's got something everyone, sometimes people I always say, my
nephew from Oklahoma has the most incredible singing voice. And there's some gifts that
I believe are obvious that I will put them in a God given gift category. Yeah, wow. And, and he
has one of those and I believe everyone has one. And some are more noticeable than others will say,
so when you have a great singing voice, it's like, wow, that's very obvious. He's exceptional. And
so his job is to, in my opinion, make sure that he takes that gift and gives it away to as many
people as he possibly can. But he'd have to own and embrace that he belongs in the world of
professional singers, right? But if he doesn't do it, because he feels like someone like me
could never be someone like that, then we like quote unquote, the world miss out on on being
moved from hearing his voice, you know, like there's some art, there's some music, where it's
music, where it makes people cry because it touches our hearts, right? Some people are meant to do
that. And we all since we all have a gift like that to give. And since people will decide, I
don't belong in a place, someone like me doesn't belong in a place like that doing that thing.
Then I am here to disrupt that. I'm here to say, No, you actually are. But my saying that doesn't
make as much of a difference as them believing that that is so powerful. Yeah. So the work that
I do is basically trying to make you believe it. You know, that's such a great way to put it,
because you're absolutely right, we have to be willing to assume our greatness. And then it's so
crazy how we kind of have our own almost just sabotage ourselves in ways because we don't
believe that we belong. And yet sometimes that's exactly the message that we're trying to share
with others, but yet we don't internalize that ourselves. And then therefore we limit ourselves
in ways that we can create greater impact in positive ways in the world. Thank you for reminding
us to assume our greatness and to share it with everyone and to believe that we do belong. Yes.
And there's like this beautiful tension with that. If I didn't feel the tension myself,
my whole life, then I wouldn't have been so incredibly motivated by the time I decided
I'm going to do this. I don't know what it's going to take. And if you watch the film, you'll know
that I had to make some personal sacrifices to make the film. But if that tension didn't exist
between where I thought I belonged and where I didn't, right, and what I thought my life was for,
and what I believed I had the capacity to do, then I wouldn't have created such
such like tension, right, until finally it snapped. And I just, I just allowed myself
to take on like the assignment as they say, right? Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I don't,
I still don't know how to do this. But I know that this is what I'm supposed to be doing.
And then that guided me to my lessons and growth. And so now I can be hopefully relatable to people,
which is why Stay at Home Mom is the first thing you'll read in my bio, because I relate to other
Stay at Home Moms and moms in general, you know, like I'm a human being that did something
extraordinary, because it was so out of my comfort zone. And you need to know that so that, and you
meaning the collective view, that's you listening to this. Yeah, you need to know that because
there's nothing different about me than any other ordinary person. It's just I decided to listen to
that voice and to decide I was good enough every moment that I was challenged and believed that I
wasn't. Wow. I often find myself sometimes in that same category that I can go out and try to help
people and try to talk about communities of inclusion and things that we can do in this
world to make it better. But then I feel like but as a gay man in Oklahoma, or as this or that,
that maybe I don't belong and I have to, you know, like, I have to, you know, I'm a constant work
in progress to I'm constantly trying to grow from that. But I remember that there was a time for me
whenever I did feel that tension, like what you're explaining, I did feel that I had in. And it was
that tension that allowed me to have the passion that I do have and also create more levels of
empathy within myself to try to be more understanding. But it was that tension that made me just kind of
break free where I had, you know, basically, so like enough is enough, I have to be me authentically
100% to be the best version of me because I have a gift also to share with people, we all have a
special something to share with people. But when was that moment for you? If you do you remember
that moment where you were just like, I gotta go like, change the world right now, because that
tension has broken me. Yeah, yeah. So I would like to talk about two moments. So the moment that I
had the idea to make the film was very, and then the moment that I decided to actually make it,
because they were 17 years apart. So the night that I decided to make the film, I was a single
woman living in Miami, and I was out at a bar with a bunch of friends. And there was nothing,
there was nothing different about this night that we weren't celebrating anything, we're just a bunch
of friends, like, hey, we're all meeting at this time at this place. And we just were getting
together, right. And so, so we're literally just talking and I make a joke, like we were doing what
Latinos do, or first gens do. We were making fun of our parents accents. This is interesting.
And if you're first gen, if you have a parent from another country, you're very good at imitating
their accent, you know, just for entertainment, you know. And so anyway, we were doing that. And
then the conversation started evolving. So we were having, you know, having fun joking and laughing
about how our parents pronounce certain things. And then someone started saying, have you ever
felt like you didn't belong like in Puerto Rico, like in my case, like you weren't Puerto Rican
enough. And like with, you know, and living in New York, for me, like, I didn't feel accepted by like
the mainstream culture that I grew up in. And people started agreeing like, yeah, I felt like
that. Or my parents are from Cuba or Venezuela or whatever country. And when they went back to that
homeland, they didn't feel that nationality enough. And it was one of those moments that it seemed to
be like in slow motion. And because I was totally present, listening, and hearing other people put
into words the way that I felt my entire life, which was, you know, that saying, ni de aqui,
ni de allá. Like, I didn't hear that until much later. But that's how I felt. I am not from here,
and I'm not from there. And I don't feel good enough here, or from there. And instead of those
two places feeling like twice as good, which I think that a lot of people will say, and if you're
listening, and you say that, I forgive you for saying it, but it really doesn't help. In many
ways, it makes things worse. And here's why. Because the person, I'm going to speak for all
people, right? I am right now. And there's always exceptions. And the reason why I can speak for
all people is because I've spoken to quite a few people. And so I have a good sense for the
community. And because I don't feel it, and that's not my experience, then being told you're
actually twice as good made me feel like, well, then what's wrong with me? Because I'm supposed
to feel twice as good as this. I feel twice as bad now for even hearing it at all. And so that night,
my world went from I don't belong, no one understands me, no one, I couldn't possibly
talk about this. I don't have words to talk about this. And there wasn't YouTube or TikTok,
or Facebook or Instagram. There was no social media at that time. It was the 90s. And so I
couldn't Google anything. I couldn't find any stories outside of literature. And even those
places didn't really talk about it with the candor that was being spoken about it that night.
And like this, I realized, I belong. I'm not alone. Are you kidding me? And this feeling
rushed through my body. And I can't explain it more than I literally felt like 100%.
I need to make as many other people feel the way I do. No matter what, this is what I'm here to do.
And it has to be a movie. And I wasn't a filmmaker. I was a graphic designer, working in a room by
myself, never had training. But I knew that I needed to make a movie about it. And then I
got napkins out and I started writing on napkins and asking my friends, wait, what did you say?
How did you just say that? And I walked home or back to my car with the napkins and drove back to
Coconut Grove, knowing at 26 what my life was supposed to be about. It was the most amazing
feeling. But the kicker is, is that by the time I got home, I had convinced myself I wasn't good
enough. And I use the same, I call them the old reliable things, all the things that you know,
the devil, the angel, right? So like the angel, that's like our besties. They're like the ones
that are like, yes, go, you could do it. I could see it. Oh my gosh, right? That's the angel.
And we all need, all of our friends need to be angels. The devil was like, what are you thinking?
Like, you've never done this. Who do you think you are? You can't even speak Spanish fluently.
You're not even a good Latino, right? Because of all the things that I didn't feel enough about.
And then my joke is, if you're Latino, you also have your mother on your shoulder.
See, I didn't put you to go through college for this. What do you want? You're going to go to film
school now? But you know, why don't you just take a job of what you got your degree in, you know?
And so by the time I got home, there was no way that I could do this. And the only reason why
17 years later I decided was because it wouldn't leave me alone. The idea would not leave me alone.
And I'm like getting chills on my arms just telling you all over my body, because I remember
I only saw a world where this was needed. And so, but my fears were bigger than my dream.
And it wasn't until the day that I decided, basta, I'm doing this, that I set myself off on the
course. But the thing that is really important for people to hear is that I didn't go to film
school. I didn't even pick up a book about filmmaking. I didn't, YouTube was out. I hadn't
watched a single movie or any kind of education about filmmaking. So that knowledge, in my case,
which is what I was putting between me and doing it, was of no consequence. I did it anyway.
Yeah. It didn't matter. You didn't need that.
I didn't need that. No, I didn't need that.
That's just a skill that we, you know, to maybe that's just maybe a connector to something. But
what you were doing though, I mean, that is that's mission work, for lack of a better word,
that is really changing people's lives and letting them know that they do belong and that there is
worth there. Yeah.
17 years though of waiting. I mean, you all can't see me, but I got a little just teary eyed with
this. I mean, it's like the work that you're doing. It's you know, like you wake up every day and you
know what you're supposed to be doing. And you might not have known how, but the how didn't
matter. You could figure out the how you can learn. Right? There are books, there are places to go to
learn. Like this is not what's in the way. I had to get to the point though, where I also
just had to say, I don't care if I lose everything. I get it. And that saying, I don't care if I lose
everything is the biggest freedom you can have to be your everything. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Snap it out. Yes. I don't want to ruin the movie, but if you see the film, you know, yes, that I did
lose some pretty significant things. Nothing important though. I didn't lose anything important.
Exactly. And, and but the and there were choices I decided to, I decided to do some things so I
could be more freer financially, we'll put it that way. And you could see, look, I'm wearing a ring
now. So my husband and I just got new wedding rings. We had I'll just thank you. So my husband
and I sold our wedding rings so I could afford to keep making the film. And that was years ago.
And it was a big decision. It was a very fast decision. Now once I realized like, oh my gosh,
we're not going to have enough. And I thought, what can we sell our rings? And that's what we
did. And luckily, I married to somebody who was all in on this and on me and that knew that
and believed in me, right. And so it was mortifying to sell the rings. However, I have a saying now,
something that I say now, which was rings do not a good marriage make. And I had a chance to
learn that for reals in the time between we sold them and the time that we bought the new ones,
which was last late last summer, I think, and it was so meaningful to the both of us. And, and it
wasn't like a financial decision, I partly thought maybe we shouldn't get them because I feel like
things are going so well. You don't want to jinx anything. My marriage. But then like,
then like, the rings is one thing, but by new one. Yeah, I don't know.
The thing is they were good before, right? Which is the only reason why he would be willing to
of course, what a great partner to it was. Yeah, it was great. And so we went out to lunch,
we picked up the rings, we went out to lunch, and I was like, wow, like, it just felt so good,
you know, things work out. Yeah, it's really work out. And they're now just symbols of things
having worked out. Selling material things like rings is nothing in comparison to selling your
identity. Oh, my God. Giving up on that. Wow. Yes. Yes. I mean, and we do that so often and so many
times. Yeah. Wow. I love that you just said that. It just came up in the moment, I guess. But wow,
but I mean, as you're saying that I'm thinking about with my partner, not actually married right
now, hopefully, maybe soon listeners. But I mean, we, to be completely honest, one of my friends had
opened up a vape shop and we went for his grand opening and there was a little band and someone
that was just making rings. They're on the side, they were like, five, $10. And so we made it.
And then we're just wearing like these rings. People think, are you guys married? Those are
your rings? I say, no, I mean, these are just little cheapo rings. But then you wear it forever.
You're like, it's the symbol. It's what matters. It's that love. And so we don't have the piece of
paper, but we have that love. You have the piece of paper, you have that love. You sell the ring,
you have that love, whatever. But you really stop and you look back, at least myself, I can speak
for myself and realize those are really just material things that like you said, so are,
they're just symbols of something greater. But how just incredible that you have a partner
that supports you that much. Congratulations on that. That is incredible. Thank you.
Do you remember though, whenever you were, and this isn't on here at all, but just thinking about
it, is there any specific comment that you remember from that night that you were with your
your friends, your girlfriends, right? And you wrote down on the napkins, like,
is there is one like one comment that just kind of stood out or anything in particular?
Well, so the one where it was, have you ever felt like you're not Puerto Rican enough?
You know, and I had never thought of, I mean, I've never said those words. It's funny, these
feelings that I talk about so easily with you, and that I know you're familiar with because of the
work that you do, are so internalized at one point in someone's experience, that, you know,
without social media, it didn't enter my world until I was 26, where now it's getting into maybe
a 10 year old's TikTok or 15 year olds TikTok or what have you, you know, people talk about that
a lot now. But back then, there just wasn't any access to those kind of conversations.
And so that her saying that stopped me in my tracks. Because when we believe, the thing is,
we don't believe, or that when people say, what are your negative belief systems about money,
let's say, you know, people say that, what are your negative belief systems about whatever?
And it's an impossible task for me to tell you, because I still believe them. And they're not
classified as negative. They're classified as beliefs, things I believe is true. So that I,
how can I peel myself away from my own beliefs, right? Until someone says something so true,
that all of a sudden, we slip out of reality, like a water flying out of the water, let's say,
right? All of a sudden, the fish is out of water, the fish is out of water. And it's like, wow,
I'm swimming in water. But before they know it, they're back in the water. So that's what that
moment was for me. It was this moment of great insight. And then the feelings rushed in, like
I'd never experienced, I'm not alone. And they were so profound, that I'd never experienced
anything like it ever before or since. And here's the most fascinating thing is, and there's science
and research that backs what I'm about to say, is the reason why I immediately wanted to make a movie
is because when someone experiences belonging, like, like real belonging, they want to give it away,
because they realize it's like having too much fruit. Take it, how about you want an apple? Take
an apple. I have so many, I have more than I could possibly eat. Right? It's like that feeling, like
I have so much, you need to enjoy this right now too. But we can't, that's not even intellectual.
It happens automatically. Right. And that's why belonging is such a beautiful thing, because if
people experience it, they immediately want to contribute. And so what would a world be like if
those of us who didn't feel belonging felt it? What, how could we, I mean, like, the kind of
quantum leaps that would happen in industry are amazing. So that's what I devote my life to. And
I think it's extraordinarily worthwhile. And the thing that makes it and keeps it interesting is
that, like I said, it's not like a light. It is like, it's like a light that's turning on and off
all day long. Right? So how do we keep it on is the question. So that's what fascinates me.
It's so powerful and making, you know, a true connection for myself in this is that, and for
anyone out there listening who also identifies as part of the LGBTQIA plus community, you know,
there are comments that are made sometimes about, for example, and there was, my partner was in a
conversation discussing blood types. And, and he was like, I don't know my blood type. And I actually
don't know my blood type either. Really? But the reason behind that is because we're not allowed
to donate blood. What? Yeah. Openly gay men, not plasma, blood, anything like that, even though it
goes through a ton of tests. And so, I mean, I could go back and look at my birth certificate
and, you know, look at my records and figure out what that is. But it was in a moment that whenever
he was having this conversation with me that we were both really identifying the fact that we,
we don't even know our blood type necessarily, which is, was really crazy to just consider and
think about because we don't, we can't donate at the Red Cross. We can't go to, you know,
a plasma center and donate. And so it was, you know, you don't, you feel like othered, you know,
like definitely othered, like really pushed out. Anyhow, but in that comment though, there was,
and there was a great conversation around this. And so sometimes like, I love to have these
conversations because they get to be real difficult sometimes, but there was a comment made because he
just has like perfect amazing hair all the time. And so stereotypically gay, right? Like that was
the thing. And so the comment was, well, maybe if you just, you know, mess up your hair a little bit,
therefore stereotypically straight, you'd be able to donate. But it was said like jokingly until the
person realized like, Ooh, like maybe that, so then there was a really good conversation about
that. So the point being is that there were two amazing people that had very open minds that were
able, that were found themselves in a moment to come together to, you know, talk about
belonging, you know, culture and things like that. What you are experiencing or did experience,
I think, well, maybe still, I think we're, I mean, maybe we're always kind of on this continuum
experiencing these things. But it really goes into, like you said, belonging, tell us more about
belonging and then the book belonging that you're writing and how all this kind of does connect
together. Yeah. So right before the pandemic, I call it a phenomenon. And because I was pretty
much only invited to educational events where people were focused on the EL community, English
language learners, the teachers that were teaching those students, the administrators, that whole
world really embraced that was like phase one of embracing my work. And then it was ERG groups. So
employee resource groups, resource groups. So, you know, affinity groups within these companies,
however big or small there are kind of like clubs, they were inviting me to come speak. And I was,
I remember thinking for the first Hispanic Heritage Month that I was invited to, someone said,
Hey, can you speak at our company over Hispanic Heritage Month? And I was like, yeah, when's
Hispanic Heritage Month? It's funny that I had no idea. Oh, my goodness. And, but you know,
things have changed, right? I wonder if I wasn't doing this. I didn't expect you to say that. So
that got me off guard. I'm so ironic. But I really didn't know. Or iconic. There. I'll take that.
I'll take that. But, but yeah, no, I didn't know when it was. And, and so why would oh, yeah, so,
so before the pandemic, I started getting invitations to speak to broader audiences,
and I call those broader audiences more diverse, because I was pretty much only talking before that
to education, and then Latinos, right? And then people from outside the community started inviting
me in. And they started appreciating nuanced stories. But more than that, they started appreciating
stories of someone's lived experience. And they started realizing that even though, and this was
a surprise to me, even though my film is very specifically about what it's like to be first
gen in the United States, and it's not political, so very creative, right? It's really an identity
piece about that. Because it was about something so specific, it felt like it was for a much bigger
group. And that's and again, I had no idea that the best storytelling is about something uber
specific, so that the group can connect to it had no idea that that would happen. And so,
and then George Floyd happened. And then people were forced to pay attention in areas where they
were just maybe moving their eyes away from now, the, you know, at large, people were having to
look at my work, just as they were having to look at a lot of other people's work, right?
And it was during that time, really right before the pandemic that I identified my work is about
belonging. Because how I articulated it was, I'm here to make sure that every last person that I
meet knows they're not alone. And another way of putting it is, you belong. And I made that jump,
I don't know how, but I realized if I center my work around belonging, I can get on bigger stages,
and I can talk about my findings in the first gen Latino community to a broad audience. And I
can gift this conversation and really the the opportunity to spark other conversations, because
I'm I show up, I talk, I hang, and then I go. And really, what my hope is, is that people will
let contemplate, percolate, discuss, and change things as a result of new ideas and new thinking,
new ideas and new thinking that they had while they were hearing me speak, right? And so,
after the pandemic, the my focus, my branding, my positioning, I'm on speaking of continuums,
I continue to sharpen which is why I launched my brand new podcast called the magic of belonging.
Because I really want to center everything on let me teach you how let me teach you about
belonging, let me teach you how to create it. And let me teach you like the elements and why
it's good for business, right? It's good. And the thing is, education, it gives us a lot of
information. There's a lot of research in education, which I talk about something called positive
interdependence, which is literally like that's like education, you know, that's like, you know,
people researching the best outcomes with kids. And if they can experience positive interdependence
in the elementary school years, they will go on to live happy, awesome lives of contribution and
awesomeness. So how come no one's taking that research and bringing it to the rest of the world?
Yeah, that's what I am doing. I'm introducing that idea. And I call it like the ultimate,
I got your back. That's fantastic. But like, that's what it looks like in corporate America,
you know, when when when we all get that unless each of us are successful, none of us are successful.
That's, that's the idea. And so I try to explain that. And, and hopefully inspire
companies to think how can we create that here, you know,
all of us are so incredibly unique, right. And so I always try to consider what like
intercultural connectivity can look like in such a place where we get beyond just advocacy,
but it's truly, of course, advocacy is a huge part of that, but the allyship part,
yeah, you know, to understand like my success is your success, and your success is my success,
and our success helps the student success, for example. And so understanding that and how we
all belong in this fear, and there's a place for all of us. Yes. And a need and a need for all of
us. Yeah, a need for people that don't think like me a need for someone that can push my thinking a
little bit as well. That's why I love having these conversations, because it makes me continue to
grow because I know I don't have all the answers. I appreciate you getting to be here so I can
continue to learn more and you get to teach me more about belonging. But no, it's really,
really important and really special, not just in the pre K through 12 sector, but like you said,
in the business world, and we do have research that shows that whenever we have a multicultural
or a multi diverse group or organization, that the outcomes are always higher. Right. So not only can
it be beneficial for businesses, for, you know, economic financial purposes, but it also is just
helping with like basic human rights. Right. I mean, just basic belonging. Yes. Like you are
special, you are wonderful, exactly as you are. Yeah. Just be respectful and nice. Yeah. Well,
you know, it's interesting when I really get like that idea. I'm only nice because I'm in touch with
the only other emotion that's next, which is love. So how could someone that's in touch with their
most loving self not be nice? And so that's what I just said this on a stage in Chicago.
I was explaining all the stuff and I don't know, like I being on these stages, I have this bizarre
feeling like I'm a total empath. And the only way that I am at my best is when I am the most open,
which makes me extraordinarily vulnerable. And the gift is I can sometimes feel the audience. And I
was like, wow, I feel like they're going to get this if I say this, right? This is the chatter
that's going on in my head as I'm delivering my keynote. And I said, so if you're wondering,
for those of you who are wondering in the audience, if I'm talking about love, I am right.
The longing is about love. Belonging is what love is, what belonging feels like. And,
and it landed, you know, and that's, that's what we're talking about. So like, you don't have to
teach someone to be kind when they're in a space of love, they just will be kind. How do you
best love yourself? Well, you know what, doing this work, it's a constant reminder. So the,
I can't, you know, I'm just like everybody else being human, and, you know, having areas where
I could do better. And so it's great to have a community of people around me that echo,
echo some of the things I say to them. So I actually have a, have a mastermind that I lead,
where I help ambitious Latinas just like boss up, get their dreams into reality. And I, and
they are like precious little gems in my life, constantly reflecting to me what it looks like
to embody this work. And so I, I feel like I have to be my best in a way in the best way possible,
like no pressure, but embody what you say, because they're watching you. Yeah. And what if you're
trying to coach them and you're not embodying this, then they're not going to believe you,
you know, you seriously, whenever you're in this line of work, you have got to practice exactly
what you preach, because you are the model, you are the exemplar for this. And that's a heavy
weight to carry sometimes, but it's one that we must assume, if we're truly going to try to impact
this world in a positive way through the understanding of how wonderful diversity is and
how that diversity really brings us so much unity. Yes. 100%. I love it. Oh, I love it so much too.
So, but I think I can relate also to what you're saying in the aspect of like, whenever you're
kind of finished doing that speech, or you've talked to the audience, whenever I'm able to be
in a professional development or giving a training or just talking with someone on the street or
whatever that is, it's afterwards, like there's this moment where I just felt like this huge amount
of gratitude that I was able to, to one, learn from the other person, but two, to hopefully
be a positive impact for that person to remind them how special and unique they are. Yes. You
know, that's that belonging truly is so powerful. And I think it helps us be more belonging in our
own selves. I'm more aware of who we are, not just our cultures, but just, you know, truly who we are
deep inside of ourselves and how that can help impact the world in such a greater and better way
whenever we can love ourselves more. Yes. If you don't love yourself, how are you going to love
anybody else? Yeah. You know, we've heard that before. And like practically speaking, like,
what does that look like? Right. So here's a practical example, because the way I see it
is belonging is a two-way street. In one way, it's my job in places and spaces that I want to be.
It's my job to get myself in a mental and emotional place to own that place at the table. Right? So I
went to pitch my second film idea to HBO. And when I, in New York City, and when I was interacting
with the gal, the executive assistant of the person we were going to pitch, she said, okay,
after you get your badge, come up to the whatever floor. And then you'll see the Wonder Woman costume
in the case and then make a right there. And then you'll see all the costumes from Chernobyl go down
that hallway. And I'm like, holy moly. You know, and I'm like, oh my gosh, there's a Wonder Woman
costume, like the Wonder Woman costume. And then there's all the stuff from Chernobyl and like,
and then the big room that we were in. And it's like, I had to do my breathing exercises, which is
really what I do. Like, it's a practical way that I connect and ground myself in my own belonging.
You know, it's there's that, you know, looking yourself in the mirror, repeating whatever
affirmations. And for me, it's the putting in my hand on my heart and really believing and like
centering myself in what I'm most grateful for in my life. That's what gets me centered. That's my job.
Right? Because there are places and spaces that listeners right now feel like they want to
exist in. And they don't realize that there's something that you can do. You know, there's
something you can do to believe that you belong there more and to quiet the crazy thoughts in your
mind. And the second is, how can we help people feel and experience belonging? How can I set the
table so that people will feel welcome? How can I greet people at the door? I have a joke about
my Oklahoma family, my in-laws. And my joke is because I'm Puerto Rican. So when Puerto Rican
knocks on the door at their family's house, everybody gets up. Yeah. And they greet you.
And they love it's like they love you. They smother you with the love, you know, and there's like
this expectation that every single person will be acknowledged. So growing up, I had to kiss on the
cheek every single person in the house before I went to the bathroom, and before I got myself
anything to eat or drink. It's just how it was done. And even though, you know, things probably
change for the better in that area, and some areas, it's, it's good. It's a good practice to
acknowledge each and every human being that's existing in the space, right? And how can we do
that for others? So how can we set the space for others? Because my Oklahoma family, my
Oklahoma family, they often don't get up when you go to the door. They often don't look away from the
television that's on. And that is, and I don't know if that's an Oklahoma thing, or if that's a
self-reliant thing, a non-Latino thing. But I remember telling my husband, like, we just drove
10 hours, and they didn't even get up, you know. And he realizes now, I call him the gringo cowboy,
he's my husband from Oklahoma. But like, he realizes now, like, yeah, it's nice when people
are greeted with love, right? And so how can you create that space? So what was your question?
Because I was answering a really good question. Do you remember?
I think you're answering it truly.
Yeah, wait, what was it?
Well, talking about how, I mean, coming back to this, you know, belonging in ourselves and loving
ourselves.
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, those two things have to be present, right? That's how you create
it. It's not just all my responsibility, and it's not just all your responsibility. Because
for 17 years, I made a decision, I don't belong in rooms like that. I have this great idea,
but someone like me doesn't belong in a place like that. So I self-selected myself out of that. And,
you know, there is, there are structural things. Yes, there are structural barriers. And the only
way we get through those of us who feel ready, okay, because some won't feel ready in this minute,
but one day you might. Taking responsibility for how you bring yourself into that space,
so that you own the space that you're occupying, and you're calm, and you're passionate, and you're
confident, right? That's your responsibility. And then it's my responsibility as a person that's
greeting you to make you feel amazing, so that you can do your best work. So it's really those two
things. And that I did say that to answer something, and I hope that makes a difference
for somebody, because I lost my space. You said exactly what you were supposed to say.
Truly, whatever you said. I mean, that's what someone needed to hear. That's what our
listeners need to hear. So whomever you are out there, there you go. But it's incredible to
consider that you felt that way, but yet you were in the same room as the Wonder Woman costume.
I mean, you are a Wonder Woman. You are a wonderful woman. And you, I mean, I want to just
encourage our listeners, though, at the same time, to understand that you too can be in that room at
HBO. It doesn't matter from where you come. It doesn't matter your background. It doesn't matter
what happened five minutes ago. It matters that you know that you belong, and love yourself,
and allow yourself to belong as we help others do that exact same thing. That is very powerful.
So this is from your website, I believe, or your LinkedIn. I don't remember for sure, but it says,
fueled by her own identity crisis as a first generation American Latina born to Puerto Rican
parents in New York, Denise struggled to fit in in her surroundings. Now we've explained that,
we've talked about that, but then you also discussed straddling two cultures. And this is just
like mind boggling to me. And I just can't wait to hear. Anyhow, it says in here, the Puerto Rican
lifestyle at home. So these are the straddling two cultures, the Puerto Rican lifestyle at home,
and the American dream beyond those four walls. Denise experienced firsthand the challenges,
compromises, and inequalities that many sons and daughters of Spanish speaking immigrants go through
every day. And so whenever you consider that many of us who are not part of a dominant culture,
whether that be based on language or geographical location or gender or identity or whatever that
culture may be, if you can just speak more to that. But what was so just like, I guess if I'm
being honest, it's like disturbing to me. And what just like really frustrates me about all of this
is that one, why would we ever treat anyone differently as being part of the human race?
But then whenever you consider the relationship that Puerto Rico and the United States have,
it's in to be the quote unquote immigrant. I mean, it just, what's going on? Right? Like that doesn't
make any sense to me personally. And so, but I also know that I don't have those experiences.
But you have your own variety of experiences. I would say, yeah, I'll never forget the first
person that was part of the LGBTQIA plus. Did I do it right? Yes, exactly. Okay. So I feel like if
I missed a letter, let me know when they said you're literally telling my story, like your movie
just told my story, you know, about of coming out. And I was like, tell me more, tell me,
start from the beginning and just plug it in from the different parts of the film, because
that made me feel really, really good that I could make something that would validate someone else's
lived experience too. Right? So, so when we live in justices, we're just surviving them.
You know, like there isn't like, hang on, can I push pause? Like, is there a pause button in my
life? Yeah, like I wish, but we all know like at 10, six or younger, like we're surviving those
moments and they don't make sense to us. Like, but I think because, and I think because they're not,
people aren't actively talking. So like in the eighties, that's when I grew up in New York,
no one was talking about this stuff. It wasn't until a bar when I was 26. So the fact that you
do the work that you do, and that the EL teachers are out there doing the work that they do, and
they're, Taylor's doing the work that he's doing the work, this work, I think, is the
work bringing it into classrooms, into teachers and administrators and bringing it into the
vernacular and bringing in the lived experience and sharing the art that has been made to reflect
this experience to use to inspire these conversations and point to the research.
That ha, that's super important because the injustices haven't changed. Nothing much,
unfortunately, has. However, more and more people, meaning people's humanity still show, right?
People are still being raised by people that will say, actually, no, you're not American,
or you are American. You know, that was the thing for me when I grew up. I would say, they would
say, what are you? Which is very insulting to a lot of people. I was gonna say already, I'm like,
what? Yeah. And like for me growing up, it was a pain point for me. But, but for a lot of people,
they just get very mad about it. I am, I am one of the only people out there that I have, I take
no offense to being asked that question. However, I remember the conversation and the comments
afterwards. Yeah. Those were always the hardest ones. And again, if someone brings them up now,
which no one does, of course, because I'm not triggered by them anymore. But I'm like, come on,
somebody, please bring this up so I can school you on what you just said, but no one will ever bring
it up. And that is, people would say, what are you? And I would say, I'm Puerto Rican. And then they
would say, you know, you're not, you're American. And then I would say, and instead of just bringing
up the sordid history that America has with Puerto Rico, I was, I was 10, you know, or younger, or
just a little bit older. I didn't have the intellectual capacity to bring up those arguments,
right? Like I was still figuring out who I was. And so we don't have those tools. And we don't
have the maturity. I mean, let's face it, people that are my age are still more pissed and get
triggered, which guess what, I get triggered too. So like, I'm not, I'm not hating on people that
get triggered. But an inordinate amount of people get triggered by the what are you question. I think,
I think that one is, is good to kind of put to bed. Like, let's, let's just answer it and be
willing to be in the conversation about it. Yeah, because it's like, because if we're triggered,
that means that we're still in pain. And that means that we still have some work to do. And the only
reason why I am okay with that question now is because I've done the work, right? Doesn't make
me better. It just means that there's one less thing that I get upset about easily. And as a,
I don't know, a culture and ethnicity, I feel we, you know, and maybe there are people listening,
like I loved her until she said that now I don't love her. But I think we, we could use some,
you know, like, let's stop, let's, let's stop for a minute and see what we where we can grow
in that area, mostly for ourselves. I'd like to not, you know, it's like the guy in the car
that's driving, you know, but beeping the horn, like right outside today, my husband stopped for
two minutes to let me out in front of the building, two minutes. And my 13 year old daughter had to
get out from the backseat to the front seat. But there was someone behind him that just, she just
was like on the horn. Boom, you know, I'm like, what are we in New York City at a light here, like
two minutes, that's it. But, but it's like that level of triggering, right, is what happened.
That's the level that some people get. They get so offended by being asked, what are you?
But the opportunity is, what do you think I am? Like, let's talk about this. Like, what are you?
Oh, let me tell you, Latino can look all different ways. Like the conversation that happens after,
if I don't get pissed at you and personally offended, is really magical, right? Yeah. So
let's have those. And even if you are personally offended, and if that does happen, try to,
you know, process it for a minute. So you, but to allow yourself to have that opportunity. Because
if we don't have these conversations, if we don't try to educate people and learn from other people
at the exact same time, and to listen for understanding, as opposed to, you know, to respond
and things of that nature, so we can actually have these conversations. And as you're talking
about this, I really can kind of compare it to, or I had this thought, I'm like, everyone kind of
has their coming out story, you know, and it may be coming out of the closet. It could be coming out
of 17 years of denying your space and your belonging to where that is. And that just really
was impactful for me right now to hear that and to think like, we all have a moment of coming out
in this realization. But then I think it's doing what you're talking about right now. It's one step
further. And that's really having the mindset where we can have open, hard conversations without
being triggered. And if we are to learn how to manage that, because that's going to be a natural
thing that'll happen. But the more that you process that and deal with that, it does go away more.
People can ask me very pointed questions. And I'm at the point now where I say, ask me any question
you have. I'm an open book. I'm going to make this like a, this is a total judgment free zone. I want
you to ask me because if I ask me anything right now, before you go out and do something else,
because I'll be your safe space. But I had to understand myself and be okay enough with who I
am for them to ask me very kind of sometimes very weird and inappropriate questions. But I also knew
that it was advancing their understanding of something deeper that was apart from me. It was
just community and communities overall. It was really important. Yeah. And it's really a gift
that you give to others. And exactly what you just said, you have to give it to yourself first. And
sometimes it does mean, oh, I'm going to feel bad throughout this whole conversation. But what's
weird is you don't have to feel bad in too many of them before you realize I'm okay. I didn't die.
And that was actually a really interesting conversation. You know, like I'm closer now
to my adversary, because immediately it feels so adversarial. Like I hate that person
for asking me that because it means this, this and this. But what about if it didn't mean that?
What about if that was all going on in your head? And I'm not saying that some of those people
weren't trying to be adversarial, because I recognize that that happens too. And that's why
I said it's a question of readiness. Some people are plain old aren't ready. But at some point,
you may be ready. Right. You know, and that's when you decide, I'm gonna I'm gonna look at this,
you know, look at this trigger today, I'm willing to, I'm willing to do that.
It can be very therapeutic. And it lets you learn so much more just about yourself,
which I think helps again, with the whole idea and the aspect of belonging to self and belonging
in this amazing world in which we live. And we have opportunity to always make it a greater
and better place without honking horns. Yeah, seriously, things like that. But when you said
we're all we all come out, like one of the things that I found super interesting was people, I don't
know, at some point, someone said, you probably have always embraced your Latina dad, you probably
have always been someone like that. And I was like, I was absolutely not one of those people. And a
lot because I didn't feel like I was enough. And so I totally like any job that I had before project
any any job I had before I made this film. Nobody knew that I was Latino. That is no one knew.
Yeah, no, we so we were talking before a little bit about how I mean, I guess that was the word,
obviously, yes, if you're if you are, will you will you discuss that a little bit again that
you're talking about, like how that came up? Yeah, so that this is something that in this work, so
free film, this never happened because I wasn't out yet. But then I was out when I came out
as Latina and as a filmmaker and as someone this crusader, right? Yeah, for people's identities and
belonging and their identities. That's when people would begin to come up to me and tell me well,
and it started happening at the education conferences. But honestly, it happened just
the other day at a consulting client. And it would that people would come up to me and say,
Well, I'm obviously not Latina. And I and I would, you know, like that always sounded like a weird
comment, like, like Latino, like I'm not stereotypical. Right? What is the connection?
Like even what is there? What? How do you define stereotypical? Right? You know? And so, you know,
and I remarked back to the gal that told me the other day, the only thing that isn't obvious is
that you don't have a Spanish accent. But if I were just to look at you, I would not know actually,
if you were and if you weren't. So just so you know, I wasn't offended or triggered. I'm like,
this is just for your information. Yeah, there's nothing obviously not let me know about you.
And in fact, most people have a darker skin tone than I do. Say that. It's so interesting,
you know, and I'm like, look at my skin tone, my family calls me pink. I'm not even white,
I'm pink, you know, because they're all super dark. And, and any case, I am or my immediate
family is but but yeah, these assumptions around around that are fascinating. They truly are.
There are, you know, people look all different. I mean, from all different countries, like,
similar and different in so many ways. And there really is no obvious and whenever you start using,
you know, semantics, like words like that, like, obvious, obviously you are or you aren't because
of how you look, or because of an accent. I think it's a really good moment for us to stop and say,
why did I say that? Right? What is the unconscious bias or whatever I have in my head,
that you didn't necessarily mean out of a place of negativity or angst or, you know, hate even or
anything like that. But whenever you start to recognize, like, those are words that I'm using
that are enforcing and elevating, like I said before, like stereotypes or assumptions of people.
I just thank you for bringing that up, because I think it's important for us to hear ourselves
and what we say. And I know for a fact, like I said before, I am a work in progress, I all the
time know that there are moments where I might say something that is culturally destructive, and I
need to be able to be aware enough and open enough to have other people help me be better in that as
well. Yeah, like, like when I asked you if you're a Latino, I have no idea.
No, but I think that I'm gonna get a hit. Oh, my gosh. No, I like sincerely have like a lot of
Latino my salsa partner. I can see she always says, okay, just a little towel in the community,
that you know, it's always felt so great. But um, but but so, and your accent is so you know,
a lot of people ask me whenever I'm speaking like on the phone, like, are you Puerto Rican?
Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, my God. But you know, gracias. Yeah. But truly,
though, you're like, because you don't know I had it. I had a professor once in Argentina,
blonde hair, blue eyes. There you go. Yes. People ask me how I could have a redhead. I'm like, well,
I have ants on both sides of my family with red hair and green eyes. That's how like I married
a redhead. But you know, you have to have it on both sides. Yeah, I'm like, it's not you know,
but it really is regional. Like there are, and we kind of talked about this a little bit, that
there's there's this conversation in to the depth that we're having it right this, this, this is a
super powerful, awesome, rare conversation that we're having. And it requires a lot of,
I don't know, like space in your mind for it, right. And so I think there's different parts
of the country that have a certain readiness level for it. And some places that aren't as
ready to have it. And that's sometimes when I'm interviewed, when I bring up these conversations,
I'm not often talking to somebody like you that, you know, I feel like we're playing a game of
tennis, and I keep throwing balls, and you keep throwing them back. This is really interesting.
This is why I adore you. And I did the first time I met you.
And it's really like, so this this, you know, hour or so of conversation, I hope that it helps
people. Because there's certain people that are ready for this kind of, and I don't mean if you
don't, I don't mean to insult anyone, I'm just saying the quality of this conversation is a is
really special to me. Because I and the work that I do is very much like, I feel like I'm in sometimes
like, it's like, it's obvious that I'm not Latino, you know, like you can, I have patients for days,
years, you know, and it's also really nice to be on the way other side of the pool on the deepest
end, which is where we're swimming. And to be able to reflect on that, but also be able to talk about
some of the things that I think about and talk about and that I'm working on in my book and
the things that are important to me now, because, you know, when you're steeped in this conversation
on a daily basis, constantly hearing from people constantly interacting, there's these things that
I've been able to put together that are helpful, but they're only helpful to the extent to which
they can be heard as helpful, right? And like, doing what we're doing right now. So, A, I
appreciate it. And, and B, I'd love to tell you a little bit about my book. So, so the idea for the
book came after these screenings after I would, I was on the road going to all kinds of different
places. And, and there would be this line that forms with people. So some there's, there's two
types of people, people that are free to ask questions in front of a group. They don't care,
or even if they do, they're like, I'm doing it anyway, right? They're going to raise their hand.
They're going to ask the question. And then there are people that just can't bear to ask their
question unless they're face to face with me. And I respect both types, right? And so those people
will wait online. And then there's just the people that want to selfie and they're like, I just want
to selfie and to give you a hug and love those people too. And so what would happen? I might be
all those people. I love it. I love it. You're the one that I would go out with afterwards because
there's always that crew also. You heard it. You heard it. You all are my witnesses for going out
after this. So, so two things emerged. So the people would wait, right? And then invariably,
they would, if I could classify the things they would tell me, I would be able to put them into
two buckets and one, and I call them secrets and dreams. The dreams would be of the people that
really saw. Cause if you watch the film, I know it's, you know, as someone who also watches movies
and puts people on pedestals, I've done that too, you know? And then you see someone that you've
seen in a movie and then, and especially if you identify with my story, like I seem maybe
inaccessible or whatever, like this person that isn't like you. But as soon as you meet me and
talks to me for 10 minutes, you know, like I'm like your next door neighbor. I'm like your bestie.
Let's go out for coffee or wine or whatever. Like it doesn't take that long for people to get
that I'm like friends level person. That's literally my experience today with you.
Like you're my bestie. Thank you. So, so a lot, what will happen is if someone has an idea
percolating, this would be you before you went to your doctorate, before you went for your doctorate.
This would be you before you decided I'm going for it no matter what. Right? But in just a few
weeks, you're going to be a doctor. So like, so perhaps for your next big dream, this would happen,
but I would hear people's dreams. They would say, cause if, if someone like me, someone that they
could relate to personally could do what I did, then for them, they feel like they could do it too,
which is really cool for me to hear. So they would, I would hear their dreams and then they
would tell me what held them back though. Like I can't do it because of whatever. Like there was
a woman who told me, I really want to write a book about my life, but I'm waiting for my mother to die.
Wow. And I was like, why does she have to die?
And she said, well, no, it's actually, it's like, it's nonfiction. It's because I want to write
about what it's like to be the daughter of an incarcerated mother. And, and she said, I don't
want to, you know, people worry that when they tell their story, they don't know where their story
ends and someone begins or where their story begins and someone ends. You know, it's like these
concentric circles and there's this middle area where we have a hard time owning the whole thing
and being able to say, no, this is my story and this is my perspective. Even if my sibling had a
different story, we can still stand in our own experience of the same events. Right. But I've
gone through that process. And so, and, and, and certainly going through it again with my book now,
like thinking about those questions because I'm telling different stories now. Right. But in any
case, I would hear their dreams. And then, and then the second group, the second bucket were people
that would just share their secrets with me. And when you see the film, you're going to know, I
didn't tell anybody any secrets. I might've shared some stuff that was hard to share,
but it didn't reveal any secrets, anything that would be classified as a secret. But for whatever
reason, people came up to me and they would share their secrets with me. And those people would say,
I've always wanted to whatever, but I can't because I just feel so weighted down because of this. And
I've never told anyone this, by the way, but they decided to tell me in a line after watching a film
and after hearing me speak. And so it was very confusing for me to understand why this was
happening and especially reconciling it with this like narrative that I have, which is I was meant
to make this movie 17 years, made the movie, but now I've got something else to do. Right. And that
didn't make sense in the narrative. Like I thought I was done. I thought I would kind of just like,
you know, like to ride this one for as long as I could ride it until until people stopped calling
me to speak is how long I was, I guess I would do this. But the next thing happened and the next
thing feels actually like the more important thing. It felt like being any of the film and that work
seemed like what needed to it felt like and feels like the groundwork. It felt like what we needed
to talk about before we could talk about this other stuff, which is what really holds people back,
which is the secrets that we keep about our bodies, about our family, about our relationship with our
parents, about our trauma, right? About money. And those are the secrets that people were telling me.
And so then I had a major publisher reach out to me and ask me if I wanted to write a book.
And if I did, once I got on the phone with him, you know, he wanted to know what I would write it
about. And I'm like, I know exactly what I want to write it about. And it's about this. And so that
is a little departure from what I would say. My work is right now is teaching companies and
organizations and school districts how to create belonging, right? That's kind of part one. And
part two is this book where I talk about the stuff that this part, which we're balling over here.
Sorry. And this is meaningful because we all have something that is like a 200 pound weight
around our ankle that we feel is pulling us down. And like no one else is experiencing and yet.
Right. I know that other people are. They are. Right. And I'm getting leg chills and all kind
of body chills as we're talking. And I'm seeing your response to this. And, you know, I can't
wait to read this book. Oh, thanks for saying that. And really it's for you. And it's for anyone that
ever felt like they had to hold on to something that wasn't theirs. Right. And that they can let
go of it. And I'm not, it's not to say you have to announce it to the world, but it is to say you are
not alone and I am going to be brave and share some of my biggest secrets to demonstrate that I'm okay
and invite people to share just with one person because that's what happened on those lines.
They just shared it with me and there was some relief there for them because for some reason I'm
not a therapist. I'm not anyone I would say qualified to hold the space for these. And often
when I share this, people are like, oh my gosh, you must feel so burdened. And I don't, I don't
feel anything. All I feel is this incredible capacity to hold more. Yeah. I have no... It's almost
energizing in a way because you get to like, I feel like you're learning where you get to do more.
Like it fuels me more. Yes, it validates. I'm seeing a reflection of what people need and I,
and it didn't feel like that at first, but once I realized it, it felt like no, this is needed and
this is, this is God or the universe or however you define it. This is, I'm being told this and,
and this is now my next job. And so that's what I'm working on now. Thank you so much for listening
to that because you've obviously you have me crying over here and connecting so much to what
you're saying. I want you to hear this. I love you. We love you. I feel like we need to always live
with love. I love how in Spanish we're able to say things like te quiero and also te amo and how
there's some different meanings in that, that we don't necessarily have in English, but in any
language, you know, just even through body language and a smile, just to show that love for each other
because I feel like that truly is what is going to build upon the conversations that we're having
now is to always do it with love. And so whenever we are in the deep end of the pool and we're really
the ones just swimming and having these conversations, I'll always be there to pick you
up. And I think that I believe that you would be there for me and I encourage everyone that is
having hard conversations like this to maintain those relationships that way we can always
pick each other up whenever we are swimming so hard in that deep end for sure. Just to wrap this
up right now, we've been having such a great long conversation, but it's been so, so wonderful.
But is there anything that you would like to leave us with when it comes to just encouraging
others and helping honor who we are, our uniqueness, our identities, our languages,
our bodies, just everything about ourselves. Any last words of encouragement that we could
learn from you? Yeah, a few. I'm going to cover a few. Go for it. We're here for it.
I'm going to speak to different types of listeners. So if you were listening and you're like,
oh my gosh, that's me. I have an idea like that, but I wonder if it's the same as hers and it's
probably not. Like if you did that to yourself in the entire time of this conversation, I'm going
to tell you right now, you were right with your first thought. And so the angels are huge.
Having people in your life that think the world of you is your job. Find those people and be that
person. And if you don't have enough people in your life like that, be that person. And it's like
flies to light. They will find you. Hold on to those people. You will find a way. That is what
you're here to do. The second thing is if you're one of those people that are, I'm going to bounce
around a little bit. If you got value from the depth of this conversation and you just want to
let me know what your favorite part was, or if you want to tell me or teach me something,
please email me or follow me. Communicate with me. People find all the ways. LinkedIn, Instagram,
I'm findable. Please reach out to me and just let me know what that I said today made the most
impact so that I can get that feedback. And if you have something that you want me to know or book
you think I should read, I'm open to it. And then finally, if you have a stage or a place
that you believe my message would resonate in, the only way to get this out outside of special
moments like this and at scale is to be live in person and having these conversations where
people can experience this. This is an experiential work that I do. And so if you think I might be
great for a stage that you go to a conference, please let me know. Recommend me for it and you
can find out all my information at deniseclercox.com and also projectenye.com and we can talk about that.
I definitely agree with everything that you said and I encourage everyone who's listening right
now to please invite Denise to your organization. She is absolutely so inspirational as you have
heard today. I was fortunate enough to hear her speak as well and she did change my life. And so
that's why I'm so humbled to be in your presence today. And thank you for just donating your time
and your energy for this whenever I know that your time is very, very valuable. Again, please
do visit her website. It is deniseclercox.com. I had mispronounced that before.
You spelled it and that was good. Yeah, deniseclercox.com. And her website is so,
first of all, incredible and wonderful. I sent it. I've seen it before, but I sent it specifically
to my partner today to say, hey, there are some things I want to do to my website. It looks like
hers. Oh, no way. Which one? Projectenye or Denise Celler Cuffs? Denise. Yes. But I really
appreciate also how, so seriously go visit the website, go read everything about her. She's
absolutely amazing. And she does have easy access to phone calls, text, video I saw, so many awesome
things. And truly we're all in this together. So thank you so much for everyone who was listening
today. Denise, thank you so much from the bottom of my heart. And thank you for helping us make
some awesome connections today. You're changing the world. Gracias. Of course. Thank you. All right. Bye.