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Welcome to Cultural Connections Lab. I'm your host Dr. Kelly Forbes. We are here to talk with educational professionals around the world to impact and influence the education system as we focus on cultural connections and the education of multilingual, diverse students.

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We're excited to have you join us today. We sincerely hope that you enjoy the show.

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Welcome back for another podcast episode with myself, Dr. Kelly Forbes. I am excited to be with today's guest, Miguel E. Briones. Miguel Briones is an award-winning educator, community organizer, public speaker, and author.

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Miguel is also the founder of No Culture Publishing, established in 2023 with the mission to empower marginalized communities impacted by generational trauma, systemic inequities, and cultural displacement.

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Through its work, No Culture Publishing creates opportunities to share diverse stories, provide access to critical resources, and preserve local history, fostering a stronger sense of belonging through literature, performances, and heritage preservation.

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The organization also offers tailored content that addresses the social, emotional needs of individuals and families, providing practical strategies for building resilience and confidence while navigating life's challenges.

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One of its upcoming projects, Por Que Hoy, Lube Garcia in the East Austin I-Moms, documents and honors the history and advocacy of grassroots changemakers, preserving their legacy for future generations.

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Miguel Briones was born and raised in Centro El Paso, Texas, credits his early life as a travieso. I'm one of those two, a travieso, was shaping the stories and cultural experiences that now inform his work.

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As the self-published author and illustrator of the bilingual children's book Como Mi Padrino, Miguel has received the Honorable Mention Award for Best Latino-Themed Young Adult Book of 2023 from the International Latino Book Awards.

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His follow-up book, Macho No Machismo, has been widely acclaimed and added to over 30 public schools and libraries across Texas.

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Through his writing and illustrations, Miguel's hope is to inspire and empower future generations by uplifting their lived experiences, voices, and stories of Chicanos, Hispanics, Latinos, and all members of the Spanish-speaking community.

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When he's not writing or illustrating, Miguel enjoys writing music, volunteering with local and national organizations, and writing about himself in third person.

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Whether through storytelling, publishing, or advocacy, Miguel is committed to amplifying voices, preserving culture, and helping communities heal and thrive.

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So with that, I give a bienvenido a Miguel Briones. Gracias por estar aquí con nosotros, amigo.

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A usted, doctor. Muchas gracias, Dr. Forbes. It is an honor to be here with you.

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I am so excited. So listeners, just so you know the little background to this is that back in 2024 November, I had the honor and privilege of meeting Miguel at an event that was hosted and sponsored by our sponsor for this podcast, Edge of Skills.

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And so we got to meet at La Cosecha in Santa Fe, New Mexico and had a fantastic time. It was a great conference. Got to meet a lot of people and I'm so glad Miguel that you were one of those individuals that I was able to meet.

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So sinceramente, thank you for being here. Claro que sí. And we have amazing friends in common. Veronica with Huepa Libros, which is so amazing to introduce us.

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I know she's a great friend of yours and it's just great to see so many amazing Latine, Chicano, Hispanic gente, you know, doing amazing things like Veronica and like yourself, Dr. Forbes.

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So, yeah, gracias. But yeah, that's true. And we also had Veronica was on our podcast as well. So listeners, you can go back and listen to her episode.

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But it's so true, isn't it, how we get to be in these spaces and we get to meet so many other people and create these new friendships and these types of families that we have.

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I feel like it's a very unique space where we get to thrive and get to share our passion about education, our passion about our multiculturalism, all of our diversity.

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And to be honest, our diversity, our all the equity that we need and to be inclusive of everybody. So I am all 100% for that and I will always uplift that and I'm just thankful to be surrounded by other advocates and people like you that are doing the same thing, not just in your every single

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lived experiences and daily lives, but also in the work that you do to help support and educate our students and also uplift the voices of them and our families as well.

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Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Forbes. Yeah, it's an honor to be able to serve my community, but to serve various communities, right? And then in that work, because of Latinidad, being Latine, being Chicano, like our vast variety of languages and cultures, right?

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That tapestry, when we get to come together, I think when we met that event was a perfect example of that, right? Because it was just this Pachanga feel with all the energy and the passion that we have, right?

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And just everybody getting along and just connecting along those lines, but also along those equity lines, right? What we're fighting for for each other, for our future gente, for our future children.

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So, yeah, it's beautiful to find your people, but then it's even better to celebrate your diversity together.

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Exactly. And I remember by the end of that Pachanga that we were celebrating with some salsa and some dancing.

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It always ends in dancing. We always end up dancing, singing or crying.

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Bailando todos al vida, right? Whenever you're dancing, you just forget about everything else. Exactly. See, it's those things that bring us together. It's so much fun.

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I would like to get in though a little bit, just more about like the personal side of you. I feel like it's always important to start with the beginning.

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Our past experiences, our lived experiences, really create that constructivist point of view of kind of like how we've gone through our trajectory in life and how those experiences have had implications to how we respond.

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And you talk about service, and so I really believe it's so much about servant leadership. I really believe in servant leadership and really being side by side and walking alongside others, not doing anything too.

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But anyhow, with that, do you mind going ahead and just starting giving us a little bit of a background and just about who is Miguel Briones, just as the amazing human who you are?

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Thank you. Thank you. So who is Miguel Briones? Well, the way I like to introduce myself whenever I do events or if I have a workshop is, first and foremost, before anything, my name is Miguel Briones and I'm the son of Emma Yolanda Carion Briones.

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I am the son of David Marrufo. I am brother to Adam David Briones, grandson to Emma Manuel David Consueldo and Teresa.

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I am Theo to three amazing nieces, Valentina, Catalina, and Ana Lucia. I am the husband and partner of Marilyn Ayala. And only after those things, right, am I then, then do I name my title

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because I feel like too often in our society, we become beholden to titles, we become beholden to positions, and we lose sight of who we actually are.

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And I think that's why we start to dehumanize people in positions of power, because we forget who we are and who we're connected to. And so, first and foremost, that's who I am.

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And I come from El Paso, El Paso del Norte, the El Paso region, the Frontera, which is right on the border of El Paso. One of my good friends, David Romo, has said that we should start calling ourselves descendants of El Gran Chichimeca,

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which is the indigenous descendants from that area. Pero I'm a proud Chicano from the borderland. I grew up in central El Paso, 79930.

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I'm proud of my zip code because it was a tough neighborhood to come out of, to grow up in, in the 90s. My neighborhood, there was a lot of gang violence, a lot of drug use, just a lot of influences that I struggled to push away and that I actually internalized and accepted.

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You know, I had a cousin pass away from gang violence. I have a couple of cousins who have passed away from gang violence.

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And so, you know, these lived experiences, having been surrounded by poverty, by drugs, by violence, really shaped my outlook on life. It caused a lot of trauma too, though, right? But from that trauma, I found myself in a place of needing to heal.

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And so, when I write books and when I create anything, you know, I really think about where I was as a child, where I was as a young person in my community.

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And so, but along with that, like, I never want to just highlight the negative parts, right? And the things that made me really hard as an individual. There was a lot of beauty in my community, right? We had some beautiful neighbors that really supported me. Mr. James, who taught me how to do things with my hands, how to work, right?

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On things around the house, my mama did her best raising my brother and I, working, you know, long hours going to college to provide for my brother and I to make sure that we weren't susceptible to a lot of the things that my friends and people in our community were susceptible to.

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I still felt victim to it. But, you know, I had a mother who was very much willing to explore options for me in terms of outlets. And so, she introduced me to music early on. I met my padrino, Adrian Esparza. He has been a phenomenal influence on my life. He taught me how to play guitar.

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Guitar changed my life because I found a purpose, a passion, my why. My brother bought me my first guitar when I left El Paso to move to Austin to play music. And so, you know, out of these things have come very difficult times, but also my family, right, has been very much there to uplift me, to support me.

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I've had amazing friends that have been supportive of my art and my work. People that know that the messaging and the things that I'm talking about are important, not just to the world, but to our gente back in El Paso.

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And so, I'm very much still grounded in where I came from, especially now as we see, you know, the villainization of people at the border, the villainization of migrants.

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I hear people talk about my hometown and the people in my hometown in ways that I don't recognize. And I come from these places. And so, it's very hurtful and painful to hear. But all that to say is that I come from just a large tapestry of experiences of a beauty of chicanismo and community, which has, you know, basically turned me into the author that I am, but also the community organizer and advocate that I've chosen to be throughout my life.

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What? Well, I really appreciate the fact that you talk about your family first, right, where we typically, like you said, we will say, like, who are you? And then they list your title of whatever you are, right?

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And so, I really appreciate you coming from it of, I am the son of, I am the brother of, I am the partner to this person. And I think that you're right. I think that so many times we dehumanize even ourselves in ways because we kind of get caught up in, like, our identity is somehow connected to our profession, wherever really what we're doing is just pursuing a passion.

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But it all comes from the connectedness that we had either through our family, our chosen family, perhaps, or even our friends that we have. So I really appreciate you bringing back to that central focus.

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And I'm sure that there are probably many listeners out there that also have these other shared experiences where they are hearing stories about their home territory, and they don't recognize those stories either.

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And a lot of times we hear these stories that people are sharing, giving us, forcing upon us, and they themselves maybe haven't been there or aren't even from there either.

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So I just really wanted to stop it and acknowledge that. I think that we all need to stop and we need to reflect, we need to really stop and listen to other people so we can hear about these stories.

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And you're doing a lot of that through your work and through your literature as well. Before we jump into all the literature and things like that.

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For any educator out there who also knows for a fact that regardless of being in El Paso or anywhere else, but knowing that their students are also impacted by gangs, other types of violence that might be surrounding them.

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I think it's so incredible to have you as a guest that can maybe speak directly to that because many of the educators don't always have those same experiences but yet they're the people in front of the children in the classroom.

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And so you're trying to teach a standard, perhaps you're missing out on this whole other realm. And so I don't want to speak anything for you or anything but is there any advice or any understanding that you could give to any educator who might be listening about how do I best support

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this student in their social emotional needs, whenever they themselves are becoming a victim, as you stated, to some of this as well, while also trying to go to school, because there's this whole conflict that happens between school and home sometimes whenever we don't understand

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and so therefore that disconnect creates even a bigger chasm.

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Yeah. And so what are the things that teachers can do to support the social emotional needs and the growth of kids, right?

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That or even to try to just understand, to have those conversations as opposed to just because they get in trouble and then they're suspended sometimes and I'm constantly thinking like this isn't helping anything at all.

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Right. I think the first thing what I've always what I've learned to do through my organizing is humanizing people right. And so when I when I look at kids as a classroom teacher when I was in the classroom.

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I always treated the kid that was that I was warned about as the worst kid as the best kid that was the kid that I held the closest to me.

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Right. But I always also had to fix my thinking because my thinking can easily go along with my peers with my work groups right that that they are like this is the kid that's coming to you next year.

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He's going to be this. He's been that he's been this. And I would put in the legwork by going to visit that kid the year before or if they were in third grade I'd go see them in third grade and then I would see them in fourth grade.

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And by the time they came to my room they were the teachers were asking like what what's going on? Why why are they like that with you?

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And a lot of times people would sum it up to like it's because you're a man. And I think in some aspects there's a masculine the male positive role model is important.

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It is important. But it simplifies the fact that I saw these kids that I humanize them. And the thing is is we the people that I grew up I grew up as a kid that when kid teachers knew about me.

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They already knew how they were going to handle me how they were going to deal with me right. They they didn't know me. And so they had a preconceived notion of who I was from other teachers and from other people and from what they heard.

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And I had those things too when I worked with kids that were the troublemakers. But when I was going to school I hung out with children.

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I hung out with people in gangs. I hung out with people that were the troublemakers but the troublemakers. But they were brilliant. They were smart.

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They had passions but nobody wanted to know what their passion was because they couldn't see past who they had been or what they had done in a certain point. But also these are kids. These are young people.

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They are not set or defined by anything yet. And a lot of times when I would have parent teacher conferences I could see where these behaviors came from.

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And I had to re tool my thinking and say this is not that child. This child is behaving the way they are. You know recently we saw I'm not going to use this person's name but a car company owner had their child in the Oval Office and this child repeated some words that people were kind of surprised.

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Well kids mimic adults. They mimic their environment. And so when we know this we got to understand that it's like it's going to take time to undo the conditioning that our environments have done to our children.

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And so it's a multitude of things but it starts with showing up and being like I have to fight every inkling and inclination in my body that this kid is a bad kid or a bad person.

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I have to push that away. If I go in communicating and working with a child with that thought process or even with an adult or any human being or an animal anything I'm going to have a negative expectation.

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And the fact that a negative outcome may occur. Well I kind of set myself up for that sometimes if I'm not going in with the right headspace.

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Now is there going to be pushback and are you going to fail. Of course. But these a lot of times kids that have not been pulled for into in towards teachers or love or give compassion.

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They need to hear it 10 times because they've heard a thousand times that they're not worth it or they're not valuable.

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And so if you reject them after them pushing you away two or three times you're still going to lose them. It takes time. It takes trust.

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And you got to think about it. How would you operate. Right. Do I build trust immediately. No it takes time. It takes compassion. It takes empathy and it takes human connection.

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I really I'm so thankful that that you shared this and and you're the first guest that's been able to be able to speak from experience in a situation like that.

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And so I'm really thankful to be able to get your point of view and to be able to have our listeners get to hear you as well. But it comes back to that point of humanity is not up for debate.

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There was another podcast episode where Dr. Joby Lawrence and I were in Dr. Tribble also were able to be on there and we were having that conversation about humanity is not up for debate.

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And so again it just brings it up to that humanization point of it. And it's so true is that whenever we see some of our students sometimes because this happens constantly.

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We'll get told even whenever I went in to schools or classrooms sometimes I'd be left the list of you know the kids to watch out for the parents to watch out for.

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And I can say you know right hand to God and everything. I took that list. I didn't even look at it and I threw it away because I wanted to have a different relationship with them.

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I was going to be like this is going to be different between us. But it's all but it takes work though. You have to you have to constantly reflect.

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Think about it because you can't judge the student based off their past actions or without trying to understand their past influences or anything like that.

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But it's really taking every single day as a brand new day and working with them and leading with love first because sometimes the students that are most difficult.

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I say that like into the comillas. There's something that they've learned through that process for that to be happening. That just didn't happen automatically right.

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And so I think it's always important for us to remember hey this kid is maybe just 12 years old. They are someone's baby. It's someone's child.

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Take a step back seek to understand and love them hard because they have a chance with you to be able to choose a different path or to create their own path as long as we can surround them with that love.

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And like you said find that beauty that beauty that beauty within our community.

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I think it's a really important really important topic. I like that new word you made a beauty beauty community.

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You may have a new way the beauty in the community. It even rhymes. It's got a good good flow to it.

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So like Bob Ross would say a happy little mistake.

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But I think you're so right. And I think unfortunately we've reached a point in our society where it almost feels like conflict is the best way.

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Right. And agitating and fighting whereas being compassionate and having humility and honesty and compassion for people. Right. Like these things are what in conflict.

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And we're kind of in a place where I worry about people just in our society where it feels like the resolution is conflict. Right. That's how we resolve this.

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But it's like nobody has ever gotten to a point where they feel good about and at the end like are left complete and whole with that. Right. And so in the classroom we have to bring that humility especially if we're going to expect kids to be the next generation of people that can be this healing factor in our community and society.

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Because we have to teach kids empathy and compassion if they're going to be able to be adults that do it.

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And right now we don't have a lot of adults that are leaning into that. And so I think there's proof in that that we need to be doing that in our classrooms. Exactly. And it's really it really has a ripple effect too because I mean anyone out there listening you as well.

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I mean you can turn on the TV and all you typically see our adults that are arguing or there's always conflict like you said and so you just don't ever see that example of a true resolution through kindness, through respect, through conversation, and again, seeking to understand, as opposed to just assuming

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something.

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It's just, especially with our kids. These are these are such incredible important human beings that we have the privilege and the honor to share a space with every single time and we as educators are going into their school into their community, working with them.

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And so I think it's just a good part to remember that we're not going in there to change them to change the community. We're in there to be able to work alongside our community. And again, I just go back to that seeking to understand and not meeting with love and having that servant leadership heart.

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I love that you said that and that's to me what I've learned in my organizing is it's a white savior white white supremacy mentality right to go in and to save communities from themselves and and you're right a beautiful organizing tactic is to always talk to people in the community first, see what they need.

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What they know their communities best they know what's going on in their neighborhoods the most and what their needs are and how to meet those needs and so I, you're right and I think there's a parental kind of mode that we get into where it's like we know we know how to do this because I went to school for it and I can fix this, but it's like, no, like, it really means coming in.

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And as an equal, or even sometimes saying I'm not an equal I don't know as much as you about this and coming in and saying I'm here to learn, and then learning from the community and you're right then we create models that are not only sustainable, but they're meaningful and then you get more buy in and that's the biggest part.

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You know that in education buying is one of the hardest things. And if we can get buy in from community. A lot of times, you know, administrators will follow suit, if the community is really gung ho about it so yeah I love that you said that and I agree 100%.

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Well yeah and I, again I'm thankful for people like you, that are that are out here sharing and spreading that that exact same message. And again, just to really put a pin in this is that it's it's it's working alongside community members and admitting that sometimes I

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don't know I might have certain sets of our funds of knowledge, rather, in my head and I might have tools and resources to help and to support, maybe a greater cause or greater picture or whatever the situation might be, but it's not for me to come in to fix and to be

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that savior, because that's not why I'm supposed to be in that space. I'm supposed to be in that space to provide whatever I'm supposed to be able to provide for them but not to be telling at or to people what to do. And I think that comes from our own experiences.

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So, I, I don't know have you, have you by chance, watched on Netflix or anything, the series Moe.

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Oh my gosh I love that series I think it is so phenomenal. Me too, me too and I'll have conversations with people, both at home and outside of the home, and talking about that and it's anyway the reason why I bring it up though is because some people

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will will make common sense and say things like, well I can't believe that or something about that and it's like well we'll pause for a minute take a step back and think, like, but you haven't been in that position to have to even consider maybe doing x y and z.

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And whenever and like there's a whole like there's a whole process there and so if you don't have that constructivist point of view if you don't come at it from that same lens or experience at all.

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It's super easy to set back and make judgments and say things, but whenever you're there and you and you realize all of the inequities and all of the unnecessary obstacles imposed onto other human beings.

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Yeah.

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And then to imagine the frustration that constantly is cycling and building inside of someone to get, you know, there's just so many.

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There's just so much process right there with all of that. Again, it just goes back to prove that point that like we need to be seeking to understand.

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And we need to be able to allow ourselves to close our mouth and open up our ears to be in spaces where we can share our lived experiences, and again work alongside each, each other.

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And that series has has, I think, been wonderful for a lot of people I last saw one of the posts from Montserrat Garibay on LinkedIn, even she was talking about it too and all these comments down below people, you know,

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I resemble this, I have experiences like this, and people that didn't have experiences like that and their eyes are being opened. And so it just also speaks to to what art can do to help us better understand the larger premise around us.

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You're so right. And Mo did an amazing job of doing that creating empathy, compassion, a story building around so people understand like, I think a lot of people don't understand if this isn't your if migrating or being first generation American, and maybe not being documented like a lot of people don't understand what that what that entails what that means.

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The difficulties of our immigration system, the fact that people want to do everything right, but it's like, you have 101520 years for these cases to come up and it's like you have to be perfect for that entire time.

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And I think it creates this perfect and this perfect migrant or immigrant image right where it's impossible because is there a perfect American, like we have a presidential candidate with that's a multiple with multiple felonies, right and we think about these things that we, you know, there's who gets to commit crimes and who gets to still be successful and gets to continue with their lives, right has that question has to be asked and people don't think about the fact that yeah, there's people living in the states that have not gone home or

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their parents or family members for 201530 years, because they cannot go over there because their family can't come here. Because if they go over there, they get stuck like, and then they could lose their, if it's an asylum case or their, their, their visas, right or whatever they're, they could lose any of their cases right they they they find them but they that they violated their.

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It's just, I struggled to talk about it because it fills me with such rage and frustration that there are so many people they get to live without having to worry about these things day to day.

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And right now in my community here in Austin seeing that families are not going to work. People are not showing up to the grocery stores, right, and it's because they're afraid because they're terrified.

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It's problematic. And I think Mo did a good job of speaking to a lot of people's experiences but in a way that is creates empathy, and I hope people watch it. I think you should if you are unsure of what a migrants life looks like a person that is seeking asylum, a person that is looking to gain their

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citizenship in America. I think it's it's it's done in a really good way that also infuses comedy and I love that about Mo is that our hand that goes through so much but it's our, and various cultures go through so much that it's a

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it's our, our, our humor that keeps us alive sometimes, right, and our families. So it's a beautiful story I suggest everybody watching I appreciate you mentioning it.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, definitely get on your streaming wherever it's found I know Netflix for sure so you can get on there and.

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Yeah, we're not getting paid anything for advertising Mo, but it just really has an incredible story to it. And like you said I really do appreciate the fact that I think it might be more inviting for people because it does have a little through line of humor to it,

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which makes it a little palatable maybe for some other people but at the same time I hope that whenever you watch it that you feel uncomfortable, because that means that you're growing.

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So all love and respect, watch that show and feel very uncomfortable, and then internalize that and figure out ways that you can externalize that for appropriate advocacy in work and all of our communities.

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That would be my recommendation.

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And we will be right back.

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And now, back to the show.

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But speaking of that, so let's elevate now to know culture publishing, right? So we've gotten to learn a little bit more about you, which I genuinely do appreciate even tapped in a little bit to mo and the arts and things like that.

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I saw you even you reaching out to your local community trying to get donations to give more books to students. I saw that you were going to your home elementary school, and that you were getting to do a presentation there, and you're just sharing the wealth with everyone

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and so, so thank you so much for doing that. But how, tell us a little bit more about no culture publishing, and how it's also promoting this message of advocacy and for understanding and awareness.

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Yeah, so just the name no culture. So originally the name came up, it was me and my cousins were here in Austin and they were visiting and, and we had talked about starting a brand, the t shirt company, and we talked about it said no culture and, and then we kind of fizzled out the ideas and I started to think about, you know, I was doing a lot of anti racist workshops, teaching workshops about anti racism and anti racist organizing.

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And the name no culture just kept coming back. And I kept thinking about the fact that they're trying to eradicate culture, trying to eradicate people's cultures right identities. And so I thought it was an interesting play with the no.

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But then also, I thought about how we have a lack of knowledge of the culture that we keep in this country and then a lot of our households. And so I thought it was important if we know our own cultures, like the cultures that we were raised in, then we can be powerful.

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But if we also know the culture that we are swimming in, because we are fishes, we are fish in water that do not know we are wet right now. Right. And so it is true we are if we a lot of us don't know the culture that we are seeped in and so you know that can be sexist culture that can be racist culture right.

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The American culture, some sums up a lot of those things. And so for me it was important to then start saying okay well if no culture is going to be going counter culture to what they do what they want us to know what they expect us to know, then I'm going to lean into what I know what we all know and what we believe to be true.

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And so I started to create books like Como Mi Padrino which was about my life growing up in central El Paso, talking about gangs but also talking about the history of El Paso.

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And then about how music was introduced to me and became powerful like I also fused experiences of my own students in there because I know that my culture, my experiences are tied to those of my students in the Title One schools that I was teaching.

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And so what I wanted to do was write books that nobody was about topics and things that nobody was talking about but things that I felt were necessary and the kids wanted to read about that families wanted to read to their kids about.

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And so when I formed no culture I said well we're going to create books that are going to be all bilingual I had students in my when I was teaching in the classroom.

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We didn't have enough Spanish resources or bilingual resources so I knew that was a part of the culture that we kept in education.

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And so I said I'm going to become a bilingual author and every book I write is going to be bilingual and this publishing company is going to launch bilingual books so that if you want a book, not only are you going to have two separate books if we can't fit both texts, you're going to have a book that has English and Spanish.

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Right. And I know teachers love that when it has both languages, because the side by side is perfect for our learners but they don't get that. And then the quality storytelling with the quality art because our kids sometimes get books that are bilingual or in Spanish, but the books are from the 80s or the 90s and they're old and they're torn up.

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And I'm like they deserve to have good books like tumble and other amazing titles that are going to speak to their culture to their experiences. And so, aside from that then I started thinking well, I need to talk to people so I can do workshops.

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So I started offering workshops where we have conversations about breaking down stigmas around reading and who is reading for because we've been taught things like our hint that doesn't go outdoors our hint that doesn't do.

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But we were the first people to do these things right we were outdoors, we grew food and we have writings right and so the idea that we, we don't think this is a part of our culture our identity, then I wanted to change that and so I also started creating bilingual writing workshops where kids could write their own short stories.

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And if they wanted the support to publish, I could offer that support through no culture publishing, or we could say okay, we're going to get you published I'm going to teach you the process on how to do it.

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And then once you're able to do it on your own if you want to publish through no culture we'll do our best to get you on our shelves, promote you to schools, and maybe you can create your own career but also if this creates additional income for your household.

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I know that there are communities where kids have to work kids have to be the bread earners in the family too and so, but they also have passions and they want to be able to live them and so I hate that there are kids who have to go into the workforce that don't get to

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live their dream because there are so many people that that's happened to it's happened to me. And so, no culture was about shifting culture changing culture creating a knowledge of culture and empowering people to to hear their stories to create different stories.

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And I'm just honored that people have given me grants the city of Austin gave no culture, a grant to turn much on the machismo into a children's play.

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And yeah we got a city of Austin just approved a purchase order with us to go in and teach a creative writing class to teach tell pass learners, English language learners, help them with their writing stems and help record them so that they can see and hear

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themselves speaking in English and in Spanish, and then have them write short stories in English and in Spanish so that when they take their tell pass test, they can not only pass it.

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But, so that they're growing in their language acquisition but never ever losing their primary language.

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It all has to be additive.

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Like, this is subtractivism, no, no gracias, it all needs to be additive.

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And, and so, so I, that's one thing I didn't I didn't realize though is that you're also helping the students publish their own books, perhaps.

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I think that is a passion that I have. So, it is kind of tricky because we have to work sometimes outside of school districts. Yeah, because of sometimes licensing or rights right it's like if it was created during school hours.

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And so, but there are kids who are self publishing I'm helping in an independent publisher right now, named Evelyn better she's creating her first book and so I'm starting with some adults who are wanting to do this, but I am I am working with with young people and so I may have to work outside of the

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avenues of schools, just because then it creates the kids have the rights to publish, and it doesn't muddy any of the waters at all.

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So, yeah, my hope is to help publish kids and then when I'm at conventions, like we met at La Cosecha, when I make conventions on my shelf I'm like you know this is an 18 year old or 16 year old published author that is selling this book, and then maybe

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who knows you know we have great companies like web by liberals and Linda letter that are like, let me take 30 copies of it. Right. And this young author now has distribution from a from a business in Chicago or in Oregon right and so I think it's,

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it's something that we should all be doing as professionals if we really are leaders, we should take our knowledge and our expertise and and pay forward, give it to the kids because we can't take it with us and they got to know how to do it after we're gone anyway.

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What, what are the reactions just so the listeners can kind of get a sense of this whenever you are in those spaces with the students and you're reading these books and working with them and having somebody like you be that mentor in front of them.

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And why, like, so what's the student experience, and why would that be so important. I have my ideas but I want to hear yours.

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Yeah. I mean you you're obviously going to have kids that are like this isn't for me it doesn't interest me. But I think when I've told kids you can write about anything you want.

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And you can tell any story you want. I think there's intrigue there, because I think also because right now we have a banned book spree that's happening, kids are kind of curious they're like well what am I like if I write stuff people want to ban it, but the

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the meat and the important storytelling comes in lived experiences and so when we tell when I tell young people hey, you can write about any story like what is an experience or what is a perfect life look like for you.

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Once you are out of school, right, these, the imagination that comes to life. I think there's a lot of kids that are really excited about what I've been able to do recently with some of my freelance work is tie some of the storytelling to filmmaking with a nonprofit

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that I do freelance work called senior Las Americas International Film Festival. And what we're doing is teaching kids, we're going to have them write short stories with me, and then take those short stories, and then have them turn them into short film.

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And so when kids hear about these multifaceted ways of creating art. They're like, wait, what, what I could do what, and then when I show them hey, I wrote this book here's a book look I wrote this and then they're like you wrote that.

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And I'm like yeah I did but I did too. I have to. Oh, I have three I have four and they're like, oh, how'd you do that like how hard is it. And so, the thing is is you create what feels untouchable, incapable for them.

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And you make it tangible you make it possible for them. You start to have them wake up and feel like, well maybe I could do this. Maybe I can.

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And I think it's sometimes even the kids that are the most, the ones that don't want to learn that are like so I can say anything and do anything. And when I say well lyrics are writing.

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They're like, oh, so. So that's the thing is it's really about, like I told you before with finding kids and meeting them where they're at, and being compassionate. It's also about being explorative and finding out where's your passion, like, and then the kids that are like, I don't like anything.

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And those are the challenges you got to be like, all right, I'm going to crack you, I'm going to crack this shell and I'm going to find out what is your passion and what do you love, and then we're going to we're going to throw you into it.

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Right, and we're going to find you opportunities. And so that's what I'm all about with this writing and and and with anything that I put myself into.

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I think it's incredibly important I cannot say it enough but representation matters. And it means so much whether you're a child or even you're an adult sometimes and you're finally seeing someone for the very first time.

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It's, who's in a space that you may be thought previously that you could not enter.

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But you got to break down all those barriers and I really appreciate again, anyone out there and you in particular right here as our as our friend and our guest today, being that representation is so incredibly important, and our students must see it, they must see that

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they can do whatever they want to do and in school we're so focused on standards and testing unfortunately that sometimes they can take away the idea of the creativity not only from the educator, because they're given a script of how to teach,

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most often post covert right now from the experiences that I've been in, I'm in different school settings.

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But then that trickles down to the students as well. And then they forget that they have the space for creative writing they forget that they have the space to to produce literature to produce song lyrics to produce media to produce arts produce things

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that can explore themselves, their own passions but also provide stories and insights for other students and other people out there of the community that might need those insights and to benefit from that. And so whenever we can create a space for them to go and flourish in that way.

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This is again benefiting so many other people while still providing more representation as that spreads.

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So right and we need to do it in a way that is distancing itself from test taking right because that's where I think we also lose kids because they're like I don't want to write because writing is just for test taking and for prepping me for a test and it's like no but writing is literally

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and everything like you want to be on the news you got to be able to write a script or you got to you want to act you want to anything and so again, if we distance also education from test taking, you're right then we're going to create an environment where kids actually are

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passionate about these things and these skills because they're not tied to a test they're tied to like real life actual things that they could do and become.

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Well, and then you know I've been in different school districts.

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Working a whole lot, fortunately, but just even yesterday in a school district and I was telling them yesterday and reminding them as I was been working with students in a different school district even the previous few weeks, but the conversation around you know whether it be

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tell pass or we'd or whatever other language assessment and they might be taking right now at this time, or for their state test. I said, you know, speaking about the language assessment one for example I said listen if there's a game, we might as well play

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and win. Right. Let's win the game. But why are we even helping like why are we one, let's remember that this language assessment test is like a gifted and talented test, because any other monolingual English only speaking so that would not be able to get anything

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but a one, probably on the Spanish WIDA, for example, right, so let's not let let's get rid of that deficit baselines let's have that asset they baselines and recognize that what they're doing is a huge superpower, first and foremost, but to this is going to

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help them yeah pass the assessment but is that why we're doing this. No, we're doing this so that way they can elevate their own voices. So that way they can be articulate so that way they can be the next senator, they can work in the House of Representatives, they can go for

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presidency, they can come here be the superintendent, they can be the principal, they can be the teacher, they can be the advocate family liaison person, they can be any of those things. That's why we want them to gain this language to go out there and be productive citizens

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and to elevate their own voices, not just that way we can have a good score on our report card.

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You're so right. You are so right. I mean, I cannot tell you how many times I was told that my kids failed star, and it was because they didn't get 70%. But I would have to pull these kids aside and be like you didn't fail anything. You grew 20 points from

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your BOI your beginning of your test, you got a 40. You got a 68 at the EOY end of year test. Like you grew 28 points. That is not failure that is growth on a grand scale. And you're right, we move with deficit mindsets not just in this world, but in education. And when we move with a deficit

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mindset, of course our kids are going to fail. We're setting them up for failure. So you're so right. And again, that was one of the biggest challenges for me was teaching to the test but also making sure that my kids understood that their value was not tied to this test, and that their growth was more important than anything else. And so bravo, Dr. Forbes, I agree.

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Well, I am. I, you know, and I really do believe that many many educators come in with like the best of intentions they have great hearts.

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But I think all of us could also step back and reflect that we've been subjected to it becoming normal because you get you get in this in this process and there's there's a there's a time constraint and I have a pacing guide and I have all this that we kind of get stuck in

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that and then you have to, and then one day you wake up and you think oh my gosh what what am I doing. Actually, well I need to take a step back from and I've become so focused just on the assessment I forgot about teaching.

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And I don't know.

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Not spring in another movie but radical have you seen radical radical radical radical.

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Yeah, it's a really good one with him and he'll hang me on while we're on here I'll look at this last name real quickly but it anyhow it's um, you know, we need to create critical thinkers as well, because we can't always teach to everything but it needs to be that

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we need to be critical thinkers but he has this quote though where someone says hey shouldn't you be in there teaching he said no I think it's best I let them learn.

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I can hear that. But again, it is cyclical in the way that it is connected we do go through this whole process, but I think that part of them of wanting to read students wanting to read is that even based on like Dr. Stephen crash and work,

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is this compelling for them is this a compelling book that they want to be reading. And what you're allowing is this space for them to have compelling books that they want to be reading, but also it's compelling in the aspect that now they themselves want to become

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the writers, they themselves want to become the producers of this work, and we need more students to be able to become producers of this work so again for any listener out there.

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I think we're working so hard on not just standards for skills but also standards for for language, yes, we'll do our assignments will take the test will play the game and I hope that you win, I really really do I want all of us to win and I'm here

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to help you do that because there is important there is value in that, but it's not to say that that's like the limit.

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It's, it's, it's way beyond that. And so it's just to go back and to remember the humanity and our students and who they are, and that I am able to do what I'm doing today without having to have had a certain percentile score on a star test or on some

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other norm referenced test. I didn't I didn't have to do that. There are other educators out there who are who were multilingual students at the time but at the time that they were going to school they didn't have a language assessment that they maybe had to pass,

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and they are still working in big organizations are very very prominent leaders in their own communities. And so I just don't want us to get confused about those who did not have to take these assessments and still are productive citizens in the community,

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students that are doing this now and so let's not let's not plant that seed in their brain that they're anything less than consistently have that growth mindset, where we're always advocating and supporting and uplifting our children and doing that first and foremost

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through servant leadership and with love, but at the same time though, allowing them to have their own expression, because that is really what's going to gain traction is whenever they're able to find ways to be creative and to express themselves.

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And again to allow more space for learning, and maybe not as much space for T for teaching.

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But I'm hopeful listeners and you may go that you get the point though, right. I'm not just teaching to the test or at you but I'm creating this space where you're, you're getting to learn.

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100% we need to create well rounded learning environments, right, and not just to target certain areas that completely agree.

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Tell me a little bit about about your book macho no machismo.

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This, this was the book that you had mentioned to me whenever we had met, or I guess rather.

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Yeah, I believe this was the book that you were telling me a little bit about whenever we met, and I just want to be able to learn a little bit more about it. And why, why is this, why is this literature that you've created so important to you.

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Yeah, so much on the machismo has actually been pretty amazing so it's kind of it's actually the book that I am, I am out promoting right now I released part two macho no machismo helpful and nice.

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It's going to be an eight part series is what it's looking like right now. Book two is out book three will be out later next year but, you know, in 2016 I was, I was working in the classroom.

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That was Trump's first presidential election first win. And there was just a lot of really concerning things that I was seeing going on how the boys were treating some of the girls how the girls were allowing the boys to treat them.

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I had young black and brown boys doing the seagale salute to the American flag in my classroom. And I also had a young girl who was asked me can I can I kneel during the pledge.

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And I asked her well what is the reason that you want to kneel. And she said because I want to fight discrimination I don't believe, you know she named Black Lives Matter she named what was happening with Colin Kaepernick.

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And she said you know you're able to eloquently articulate what you what you feel and so you know it's your right, you have the right to do whatever you want.

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And so I started to see just you know and then the administration came in try to convince her not to do it she fought back against them still did it.

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And I started to think about how machismo machista was just prevalent in 2016. And now in 2025, you know the rise of this bro culture and bro bro legarchy and all these different things you know Elon Musk and Trump and all of these, these people that fancy themselves to be the most

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nearly of men but it made me think about how masculinity works and who gets to be considered a man and machismo you know the definition changes from person to person and it's a bar that people are that men are and boys are constantly trying to meet.

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But it creates a lot of anxiety a lot of angst a lot of frustration.

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And so I just thought about all the culmination of what we were dealing with in 2016 leading up to now, thinking about the villainization of migrants thinking about stripping of women's rights, what these things meant.

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And then, banning books, and I started thinking well, we need to create I need to create a book that speaks to my understanding of machismo. And I understood that what I'm seeing is men are pushing back against this supposed push to make men feminine.

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And I was thinking about that and I thought well, the most macho is the men that I've ever known, where the people that could talk about their emotions where the people that weren't offended or hurt by being called feminine or being put adjacent to femininity and

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understood the femininity was not problematic was not an issue, and understood that they didn't have to use their power to undermine or control or hurt people.

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And so I started to think of my position as a man in this world, understanding that I identify as like a cisgendered man and how I show up in the world and I started thinking like nobody's talking about these things but so I knew that macho and machismo in our in Latina and Chicano

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culture, Chicana culture, it's it being a man is very important, right in much much being macho and being these things is very important but they're conflated things that we've learned from I feel like Americanism from Western culture.

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And when we look back at an indigenous roots like there was still patriarchy but you had a more balanced between patriarchy and matriarchy.

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And so, understanding that we don't want to strip people's identities you have men out here that are saying you're trying to take away my manhood and it's like well no, you can be a man, you can be macho, but you can't be machismo and so macho no machismo was this, this way of saying look you can be

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macho maintain your identity, but you got to change the behavior of machismo you cannot be machismo and so I wanted to name what these things are and so I've, I've had young people, adults say hey you don't even talk about machismo in the book, all it says is macho is this macho

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is that macho is nice macho is helpful macho and I was like yeah because I don't need to give more air to that fire of machismo.

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Everybody knows what it is right and so we exactly and when I meet with people they're like oh my gosh, this reminds me my grandfather my father my brother my cousin my deal like everybody has these examples.

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But we don't need examples of machismo in the book, we need examples of how we are creating machos and how a macho was created, but I also did it in a way that I knew books were being challenged and interesting thing my book was challenged last last year in December

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and almost pulled off the shelves. Congratulations.

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That's like a badge of honor. I know and that's the thing is it's turned into a badge of honor but it's also very terrifying because you know there's real real implications behind that meaning like I could, like luckily it's one district, and maybe I can't visit

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there that's fine but enough districts and it becomes problematic because then I can't, I can't make a living I can't go visit kids I can't get this message out there.

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Yeah, you're right. You're right. And so but but at the same time, I have had people say like it means you're doing something right and I know I am. And that's why I created it because I knew.

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One of the things I'll give everybody on this the podcast, a little insight into much a one in the future of macho like the main character doesn't have much oh walks around without a shirt on a lot much doesn't have nipples.

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And the reason I didn't put nipples on much was because I knew that that would be one of the reasons that they would probably try to challenge my book.

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Right. And so that's proof that censoring does work, I censored myself. Right. But at the end of the day, like, I knew that it was important to get this book out, regardless, and so I put it out in terms where much those are nice much are helpful.

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And so I boiled down simple boilerplate terms because, well, if they're going to challenge my book, then I want them to come out and say, we don't want you talking to kids and teaching them about being nice and helpful.

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We don't want you talking to kids about not being you know using their strength for bad.

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We don't want that. And it's like because then we know what your agendas and there's no hidden agenda. And so I tried to be very calculated very, very.

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I was very intentional in the creation of the book. But altogether, you know, my grandfather was a luchador in Mexico at one point, he went by macho Manuel.

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And, you know, I wanted to create this character thinking about my grandfather I found a picture of him, where a photographer actually captured him pushing my my Nana my grandmother off of a bench.

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And I, I don't think a lot of people have a historical photo to tie back my chiefs that are abuse in their family from generations. And when I saw that I was like, this photo is horrible.

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But it's why I wrote the book because I was like, I come from this, I have every ability, a possibility of potential to be this person.

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And in that photo, my mom and my my deal are in that photo as kids standing there and they're watching this happen. And so, seeing that freeze frame that photograph of my grandmother's face just mortified my grandfather filled with rage pushing her off the bench.

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I was like, you know, I also have a duty for my family for my culture for my people to tell this story, so that we can undo her.

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But this is also a story for multiple cultures like I get frustrated because people will tell me. Yeah, Mexicanos and Latin a Latinos are very much he's more.

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This is not a book just about this is a book for my culture and my identity, but people need to understand that my cheese more isn't just Latino culture.

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It is not Latina culture much. He's done much. He's more has touched every continent in this world. And so whatever cultural background you come from, whatever place you come from, much. He's that exists there.

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Yeah, just as much as it exists in white America. And so I also wrote this book for white America to start facing the truth of who we are putting into power and who we are elevating into positions of power and and and holding up as

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people that are supposed to be idealic men. But again, ideal men are not unhinged, do not want to oppress people, do not want to put people down.

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Macho is the opposite. Right. I'm a cheese. Mo is so filled with anxiety and self doubt that they have to do these things.

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Right. And so I just really wanted to create something and I never thought that it was going to meet a moment like this, where I am going out and actively having to teach things that we have current adults teaching young people about how to become much is most.

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And so I'm actively fighting against people like Andrew Tate against Donald Trump against Elon Musk about several members of Congress who want to strip people of their rights and for what for power and money for power and money.

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And a macho knows that there's more to life than that. Right. That there's more to life than power and money. And that power doesn't come from having to to oppress people.

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Power comes from uplifting people, from supporting them, from seeing them win just as much as you win. Because when our boats rise, all boats rise. Right. Like I said all the time. Yes.

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A hundred percent. I am really getting chills as you were saying this. I wish that I had this this book whenever I was a principal in an elementary school.

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And you'll probably appreciate this. I remember, you know, it just, unfortunately, it is what it is. But I remember being a principal and it was after the first Trump presidency had started.

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And this first grader got sent to the office for something and I was, you know, Senor Calito the principal, but I was like, Senor Calito is a lot of fun, but you don't want to be Mr. Forbes.

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Like, like, there's a difference there. And anyhow, I remember this didn't come into my office. Something had happened. And so we were talking about it. And whenever we were, I mean, it was just like, it just slapped me right in the face.

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And he looked right in my eyes and he said, Senor Calito, if the president doesn't, why can't I do it? And it, I just, oh my gosh. And I wish I and and I hope in the moment I had the right words.

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And I remember it was something centered around, you know, unfortunately, people in certain positions, even if I were the principal could do something that trauma doesn't mean that someone else should do it like we need to learn from our mistakes or, you know, some theme around that.

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We worked through the little altercation that happened.

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And I got to, I mean, I felt like everything was handled and it was, it was fine. It was no big deal. But what was the big deal was his takeaway of the rationale is why it was going to be okay and appropriate.

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Because he was doing the machismo thing, as opposed to the macho thing. And it takes a lot of strength to be macho. And you don't have to have a spine sometimes to be machismo.

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You know, right.

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It was, it was just one of those moments that I'll never, ever forget whenever the first grader just taught me a whole lesson in a split second about the impact and the influences that, or the, the, the impact that an influence can have on a child in their every single day life.

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You are so right. You are so right. And I think about, right, the, the, how that child repeated that and where they heard it. And one of the things that I found, what did you make me think about?

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I lost my train of thought. So you had mentioned how the child came. They said, you know, why can't I do this?

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So one of the things that I've started doing, one of the things that I've started doing is when I go to my author visits and I talk to young people is I say, look, I would not ever really say this to you all in any other circumstance.

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But right now is the best time to not listen to adults.

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But let me explain to you what I mean. Do not listen to adults right now that are telling you it is okay to be unkind, that it is okay to be rude, hurtful and damaging to other people's minds and bodies.

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Do not listen to them. I know you don't like listening to adults already. So I am going to beg you to please don't listen to adults like you love to do and don't listen to them in these instances.

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And so it's been kind of fun and seeing adults be like, what are you going to tell them? I'd be like, I want you to not listen to adults right now. And they're like, what are you going to tell them?

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And I'm like, don't be hateful. Don't be spiteful. Don't be vengeful. Right. Don't be mean to women and girls. Don't do these things. These are these are adults, but you don't need to listen to those adults.

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And it's fun to be able to kind of flip it on its head. But it's weird to be in this position where I'm like, the adults are not the same ones in the room right now. Don't listen to those adults. They are not right. They are wrong. And so yeah, it's it's very interesting. But it's it's disheartening also to see the kids are taking their cues.

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And, and I'm glad that they have somebody there like you there to say, look, sometimes there are going to be adults that are in positions that they don't do the right thing. And that just happens. But just because somebody's behavior is one way doesn't mean we change our behavior to fit theirs.

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We are who we are. They do what they do. We don't do what they do. They do what they do. And we watch we observe, but we don't copy. Right. And we do and we stay true to who we are and what is right by us.

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If somebody stealing, I may want to steal because I want some too. Doesn't mean I have to go to that level. I stay true to my values and who I am about.

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Yeah, 100%. I think that I think that we need to keep on spreading that message all of the time because we have got to come back to a place of kindness and respect. And it's true.

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Right. They're going to see examples of what not to do in leadership positions. But then there are people out there in leadership positions that can be the model of what the right behavior would be how to be empathetic, how to be compassionate, how to be kind, how to listen, how to create an inclusive space that promotes belonging for all.

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And I don't have to understand you or even have walked in your shoes to still love you, to still care about you and to know that you are a human and to remember that we are 99% of our DNA is the same.

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I mean, we're, we're, we're so close. And so we just have to get back to this place where we're being examples and role models, not just even for our students, but to each other in the teacher lounge.

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Yeah, whenever we're in our meetings, the way that we talk about ourselves, our bodies don't even know the difference whenever we're just joking or we're not joking and we talk negatively about ourselves and we start to, to plant those those seeds of doubts and those, those, those just bad negative thoughts right.

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And so I really think it takes people like us to stand up and to be able to, to be those role models, although not always perfect, but at least trying to achieve that, but also just to have the conversations with other people.

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I mean, you and I have vastly different backgrounds in life, and our upbringing and our experiences, and I'm sure that we're like a big Venn diagram we probably have some, some some similarities may not be the same situation but some of the same

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maybe implications and we can have these shared stories.

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But at the same time though, I want to seek to understand, I want to learn more about you and understand you so that way I can be a better person in my walk of life, and hopefully vice versa.

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I laugh as you as we're talking about this my mom she said oh my gosh she said, my hands are so tired and I said what and she said from walking on my hand all the time because this world so upside down.

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She had just mentioned that again yesterday and it made me think about it now is that sometimes you do feel like you're walking on your hands because it just seems like everything can be upside down.

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Yeah, but then, fortunately, you are going into spaces we get to go into spaces and to try to make a positive difference. And I appreciate you being vulnerable about earning your badge of honor.

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But at the same time though there are implications to that because if it if one place can eliminate your work or the work of anybody else. My work, perhaps.

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Okay, right, like, that's really unfortunate and we know why but then when that starts to to spread, and it goes everywhere and then we as the community, start to become silenced or we have to.

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We have to even censor to censor yourself as we're going through this, it just.

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Well I mean it scares me. To be honest, and I, it's very it's very very uncomfortable.

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Yeah, it's slippery slide that balance right of just some, my partner Chris he always talks about like well playing the game. Oh my gosh and he knows how that this press race and like, if there weren't a game we wouldn't have to play it.

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If we could just do the right thing and like, that's always kind of where my mindset is and then I have to think, all right, I guess you kind of sometimes have to play the game because I can't cut off my nose despite my face.

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Right. And so I want to still be able to be invited to spaces to be able to be there for for fellow educators fellow humans.

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But for students, because again the ones that we're talking about like that first grader, he was six, a six year old child. And we, we influence those around us, even whenever we don't think that we are.

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And so it's just I just encourage all of us and thank you for this reminder of just being very vigilant in what we say what we do, and have that thought process about how our actions can can create positive and or negative effects.

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And then with that, what do we do with that and you've put your passion into so much great work and advocacy and through your works of literature and being on this podcast.

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So with that I just want to thank thank you again for that because I feel like it's really really important to have this conversation.

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Thank you. For sure for sure.

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So there was a, I've been taking some notes over here, you and I want to bring it back to some educators out there. You talked about Mr. James.

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Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

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Can you tell me any more that you're willing to share about why that relationship was so important.

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Yeah. So I grew up without a without a father in the household.

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And so, obviously I gravitated towards towards role models right other.

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Some, a lot of them not positive I hung out with with people in gangs I used to be out in the streets hanging out with people and so, Mr. James.

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That's amazing. So anytime he his house was next to mine and interesting thing we had a dog that was just a single dog and she would go over to their house and play with their dog so we'd open the gate and she would run over, and they would let her in and she'd hang out there.

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And so I'd be like, Mr. James and you'd hear him. Yo, like he would always say yo. And so, he always wore Dickie's like work shirt Dickie's work pants and work boots and all 10 always in 10 and same outfit all the time.

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And so he was like the postmaster general. He was a principal and a teacher in Van Horn, and, and a war veteran, and highly highly respected in Van Horn.

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And his name is James Terrell and so Mr. James lives next door to us. And essentially you know, me and a bunch of my other friends who were authorize was were just out there, you know, causing trouble. He starts inviting us to come over and he's like I'm going to teach you all how to use tools like

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here's a wrench here's how you use it here. And then he would let us go through into his work shed and just kind of go through his tools and he's like just put everything back. And then he would invite us into his house, and it was usually it was me my friend Tito, who's from Puerto Rico.

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My friend Abel, who I've known since second grade, my friend Fernie, and then Brian who's Tito's little brother who passed away when he was like 14 or 15 years old. And that was a big loss for our community but we would all go to Mr. James's and he would say okay like you guys can play in the yard and he had honeysuckles, which is that plant where you can pull out the flower and I did that in elementary.

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You know about honeysuckles exactly. I love that you know that so he had those, and we would go and we would play in the yard we would eat the honeysuckles and then we go inside he would give us cokes he had cokes in a little shelf, and he'd be like grab a glass with ice.

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And then he would ask us you know serve me serve me some cutty sark, so he drank cutty sark scotch whiskey. And so we would give you would say give me a glass with ice that much, and then this much whiskey so we would.

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He would sit in the living room and he would tell us stories about pranks that they pulled like the principal once was was mean to them so they put his car on the roof of a barn. And, and when he came out they found his roof, he found his car on the roof of this barn, and I'm like we're just tripping out

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like we're city kids so we're like, you put your car on a barn. That's weird. But, Mr. James always looked out for us he would check on us to make sure that we were behaving, we usually weren't.

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He, for me was such an amazing man amazing role model that I didn't have in my life, who taught me about working with my hands who taught me about just compassion, and he loved us. And to be honest with you.

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Growing up. I've, I've had a bit of a distrust from the things that I've learned in my experiences for, I'll just say for white people. And that distrust I always have to challenge it because Mr. James, his daughters who live with him Janet and Carol, they were, they were white folks

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but they were the most loving to us. I don't know, many people that would knowingly take in, and I'm white passing I'm very light skin right but my friends, they're all very dark much more more than me.

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I don't know how many people, especially white folks that would take in these kids who were troublemakers that were out doing things and allow them in their home. Give them soda, mentor them, show them love, compassion, empathy.

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I know there's people out there like that. I know there are. But I think it's hard to envision it because of how divided our country is how divided we are as people that I always have to return to that place to center myself, and to put away that distrust, because

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Mr. James, I mean he was, yeah I have him on the altar on my ofrenda every year he's on the ofrenda, I have him on my altar, and he was, he was a beautiful person that, I mean I got to see him on his deathbed and say goodbye to him.

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And I let him know that he was like an adopted grandfather and adopted abuelito of mine to many of us in the neighborhood and so yeah, Mr. James.

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Thanks Dr. Forbes, but oh yeah Mr. James has a very special place in my heart. Just because he expressed a level of compassion and interest and young brown kids and saw us as people in a way that I want us all to be seen and treated.

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I am fully confident without ever having been able to know the amazing Mr. James of whom you speak that I know he's very incredibly proud of you.

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Thank you. I haven't even, I've never talked about him so that's probably what I'm getting in my feelings about it because yeah I've never been able to but his daughter was a huge influence on me too.

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She was a teacher and she would sit and teach me math and tell me I was smart and tell me that I was doing good. And so, her and her father and her, her daughter were just unbelievably compassionate and loving towards me.

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And so, that's why that I think about when I think about like the tough times growing up in my neighborhood. Right.

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But yeah, I think, I think it's important, just for all of us. Again, to remember that one person truly can make a huge difference.

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In the lives of other people. Sorry, I'm thinking about my own, you know, my connections to that too right now. I'm sure other people out there listening are doing the same thing.

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If you have a mystery. I want to flip the script on you then who is your Mr. James.

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Well, so my now who's hosting this right now.

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So my, a little bit of my background is that my, I grew up in a divorce household with my mom and dad and then lived the majority of my life with my with my grandparents, who are still alive and just, they're my best friends, they're 92 right now so shout

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out to pop in Kiki and when I was younger I was tongue tied I couldn't say granny or grandpa so came out Papa and Kiki, so it's Papa and Kiki.

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But anyhow and so, anyhow, there was one male figure teacher and my drama teacher, Mr. Bruce, and he, he would just always there for me I mean he really did kind of feel like a second dad I could go to him about anything and just talk about

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anything. And again, this is kind of like where that Venn diagram comes in completely different situations and points of view, but going to a Christian private school, and knowing that you're gay and working through all the things that that is.

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Right, but being able to have one person to be able to go to and confide in and talk to was was just incredibly important

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to me for, for a whole, a whole lot of reasons I'm always thankful for, for that situation happening in a school where I was able to form a really great relationship with an educator.

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And again, you know it was, this was a while ago but you go is go have lunch in this classroom, or talk before school talk after school.

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And it was just yeah, definitely needed to have somebody there that. And again, I don't want to simplify it by saying that oh it's because there was another man there because I typically got along better with females, women, than I did.

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I did. Males. Again, probably because I wasn't, you know, machismo in the way, but like because they had their own idea of what macho was, which I didn't you know have those terms back in high school during that time, but anyhow, it was, it was just really important

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to be able to have someone that you could go to and just be yourself but it did help that it was that it was him because I didn't, I don't, I would never been able to have those same real raw conversations with my own father.

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It never would have, that never would have been, that never would have happened. And then how I needed it to happen for me, if that makes sense.

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That's powerful, no, and that's meaningful because that's, especially at that age, right, and when we're in school like just all I always, and that's another thing that I always thought about with my kids like the physiological changes and things that they are going through when we're young, like the things that we deal with now and issues or things that we have in our, that we're thinking about

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or emotionally dealing with as adults, these things are more volatile when we're young and they're just so, so powerful that if we don't have that person that we can just kind of vent to or get it out like it eats you up, it eats you up and that's where I worry about our young people with a lot of anxiety, a lot of depression, right.

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And so, 100%, that's amazing. I'm glad that we found people that understood us but also that were passionate and took their time with us when we were young because I know those were the hopefully, I think the things that kept me from going over the edge even more.

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Yeah, and I'm, I mean, to be honest, and I really mean this I'm thankful that that somehow in this cosmic world that brought us together to, you know, I'm thankful to have a, not just a colleague but a friend in you as well.

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It means, it means a great deal to me. And, you know, it just, you brought up a good point when we don't have to embellish upon it, unless you have something to say about it but I just, I think it's real and that just needs to be expressed that like you said that you had a

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fear or maybe not a fear and I don't want to misinterpret the word so please correct me if I'm saying it incorrectly, but a certain emotion about white people.

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I mean just the fact because of, you know, and those are just real feelings. And if anyone ever feels offended by any of that well then you take, I mean, not to be rude or anything but you need to take a step back and consider why would that be.

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Why would someone like Miguel, a very nice this incredible human being ever need to fill any of that right.

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And again, not the same situation, but why are there certain people that sometimes I fear, and I try to be very culturally responsive and culturally proficient in practices and I try to get away from any of my conscious or unconscious biases ideologies

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prejudices, I try to always you know move forward in that mindset, but I have to process it and move forward in that mindset, because of other things that have happened that are real life situations that happened that were not pleasant.

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Right.

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Right.

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It's good, good, good to reflect on that, but to to the work that you're doing though it's combating that it's you're really finding a way to just, you know, chisel out these spaces for not just yourself but for students and for children, and I believe

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that is such an incredible and honorable focus that that you're doing and so again I just thank you so much for all of your work for all your advocacy for you, sharing these stories and for everything that you're doing in this world.

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Going uphill downhill or just coasting along, you just never ever give up. And I want you to know this that you truly do have a friend in me and I will always be here to support you in the work that you're doing.

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Thank you so much. Thank you so much Dr Forbes and you know I want you to know that I am grateful to have met you. I know the first time we met again like was at Lacosa and your shoes, your shoes just blew me away.

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I was like I love your shoes.

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But it was it was your energy right and that's the thing is I think sometimes the authenticity in your energy the authenticity and the work that you're doing.

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I get it. I find myself in spaces and I get what you're saying about your partner where it's like play the game. I'm a notorious non game player and I get in trouble for it.

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I loved the authenticity when I met you of just our conversation of like, and your passion right and I think you can't fake passion and education because it becomes very apparent when you're not passionate.

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I could tell how passionate you were and like it's hard to find your circle of people. It's hard to find a network of people that you can also feel can be friends but can also be allies.

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And so I'm I'm honored to have met you. I'm honored to be in this circle with you to be calling you not just a colleague but a friend and to be pushing back against oppressive oppressive regimes oppressive modes of thinking and ways of acting and creating spaces where we're

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liberating all of our kids right no matter what marginalized group they belong to black brown members of the LGBTQIA community.

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Women, non binary people, every single person that we have right now that is under attack.

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I think, you know, it's going to be important for us to find our communities to find our people and lean into them, but also when things get tough for us to find each other and to lean on each other and create opportunities for each other, because nobody's got as

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but us. And we've seen that time and time again.

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I don't want to worry about our hand with what's happening in government but again, as I told my my one of my amigos was also an author David Romo I told him, Amen. Institutions and systems like this have never been here to serve us and so now that they're definitely

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not here to serve us. Are we worse off. And it's like we are a little bit. But I think this is where community comes into play, and where people like the Black Panther Party we're doing amazing things like their free lunch program, right, we can do these things in

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communities, it's about just finding the right network the right people.

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And we can do this, and it's going to be hard, but I think the future is indigenous I think the future is female, I think the future is LGBTQIA I think the future is so non binary that we don't even have to think this way of right or wrong left or right, male or female,

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right, like, it is so much more. And what I think we're dealing with is the death now of, of oppression of these people that want to hold us down.

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And I've told people that oppression and power does not give up power easily, and that it looks ugly and scary before the dawn comes before we see the truth of what we want to live as liberated people.

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And so, times are dark right now. But right now is the best time we have as hint the as a last size people to stand up to advocate for ourselves and to organize and come together as people across socio economic lines across cultures across racial lines, because what

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we're seeing right now is an attack on all of us as people. And most of us are one accident or horrible thing away from being poor from living in poverty some of us are already living in poverty.

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And so this is the time where we need to find and lean into ourselves into our community into our people, because it's the only way that we're going to survive and thrive after, you know, this this current administration that we're struggling under.

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I, I'll wrap it up with this I remember there was a superintendent one time who had mentioned to me said, you know what Kelly I think your biggest weaknesses, your passion.

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And I said, Wow, you know, and it's always stuck with me, and I was like with all due respect I think it's my biggest strength. That is my passion. Right. That's my biggest strength and so I just want to, I just want to, I mentioned that just to say like I think it's

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your biggest strengths, and for anyone out there listening, I believe that your passion is your biggest strength. And so we need to, you know, come, not just with passion sometimes to the table we need to have some data we need to have some facts and then

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have some things that people can like tangibly, like put their hands on look at and we can you know mull through whatever that is but I just want to bring it back whether you are just a young child all the way to an old adult and everyone in between your

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passion has worth and it has value and you have that passion for a reason and your passion is one of your greatest assets and one of your biggest strengths, and it's what helps us drive through this every single day.

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Again in unity together as we uplift the voices of everyone in our community. So thank you so much for your passion.

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Gracias, Dr for me is a world to me. Is there is there anything that you would like to leave us with, as we as we close up here.

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Oh, what do I want to leave us with.

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I was even thinking about a final, a final sign off.

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Let me think.

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We talked about so much. We did talk about so much thoughts in my head too. I guess one thing that I would want to make sure that people know is just that I'm working on creating a macho hub which has a multitude of resources.

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It has access to podcasts, articles, short facts, and debunking myths about my cheese more mental health.

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It has worksheets and activity sheets. And so this macho hub is going to be something that I create as a part of my website but it's going to have a QR code that goes along with my play.

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And when I'm doing my readings and this is going to create provide resources for Texas, Colorado, California and New Mexico, but it's meant to just support families and young people that want to live a more macho and less machismo life and lean into their

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mental health and so this resource, which I'm calling the macho hub is going to be launched next month.

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And so as a part of that it'll just be a free resource guide again for families to come and find regular resources on what is my cheese more what does it mean to be a positive to have positive masculinity.

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And so just to kind of counter this and because I know that we are currently and we have been for a while we are at a deficit for positive media that shows positive aspects of masculinity and mental health and so my job is to create, I see now,

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my job is to create multiple forms of media. So I'm doing this resource list the play that I'm creating the books, the black because that I have the writing workshops are all in an effort to create media that is going to counter popular narratives of what it means to be

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masculine what it means to be a man or a boy, or much or much he's more to be strong right and so we are trying to change that. And then I just say that women need to be careful to because men are the main perpetrators of my cheese

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and my cheese more, but it is upheld and supported by women and girls, by some of the statements and actions that they that they do to support that and so I think those are what I'd like to leave it with is just understanding those things and shouting out that resource

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and then also just thanking you for everything that you're doing to counter machista narratives to counter hurtful narratives around education, and also having conversations about what education really is how you do it.

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And how you succeed in it like because it's, it's, it's hard but it's really not a big secret. It's really about the things we talked about today and what you talked about the approach and how you were as an educator and even in this administrator so gracias

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Dr. Forrest por su tiempo I appreciate everything and that you're doing and for this podcast. Thank you for having me on it. I hope that I could shed some insight into the amazing work that you are doing and as well as your other guests.

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Well you definitely have and I'm so thankful for you and listen just so you know we will have a link to Miguel's website and his LinkedIn and also his Instagram in the description.

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I don't know if you've seen that, but his website is www Miguel, but he honest rights, calm again that is www m i g u e l v r i o n es rights are w r i t e s.com.

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So today I encourage all of you to get on the website to have to have it favorited, so you can go and see all these resources and see the other information of the literature that Miguel has Miguel friend, a brother, an uncle, a son, a husband, an amazing human

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being. Thank you for being here. I love you. I care about you and to all of you out there listening. I love you too and I wish you all the best. Go forward and live with kindness and with peace.

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Gracias, everyone. Hope you have a great rest of your day, and we will catch you next time.

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Thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to like, follow and subscribe. Adios.

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Thank you.