Welcome to Cultural Connections Lab. I'm your host Dr. Kelly Forbes. We are here to talk with educational professionals around the world to impact and influence the education system as we focus on cultural connections and the education of multilingual, diverse students.
We're excited to have you join us today. We sincerely hope that you enjoy the show.
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Welcome to another podcast episode with myself, Dr. Kelly Forbes here on Cultural Connections Lab. I am excited to have a great friend with us today, David Rogers.
He supports the work of Dual Language Education New Mexico from Dual Language Education of New Mexico, whose mission is to promote the effective design and implementation of dual language education in New Mexico and beyond.
You can find their website at www.dlenm.org and we will have that link in the description of this podcast.
David Rogers in his 35 years as an educator, he has served as an education volunteer and program coordinator in Peace Corps Paraguay, South America, a bilingual special education teacher in South Bronx, New York, and as a dual language classroom teacher, bilingual program coordinator and school principal in the South Valley of Albuquerque.
In 1996, David and his colleagues helped to organize the first La Cosecha Dual Language Conference, which was hosted by Dual Language Education of New Mexico, where David served from 1999 until 2022 as its first executive director.
David is an advocate for culturally and linguistically diverse communities and has provided leadership support for advocacy groups like TransParm Education New Mexico and New Mexico Hispanic Education Advisory Council and NCEEL.
He is a husband to dual language educator, Rosie Gonzalez Rogers, and together they have four bilingual multicultural daughters and call Albuquerque, New Mexico, their home. With that, a huge welcome and bienvenido to David Rogers.
Thank you so much for being with us today. Oh, gracias Kelly I'm so happy to be here with you today. Thank you very much for inviting me.
It's such such a pleasure and we're so grateful. We also have you all know him well our co host, Dr. Taylor Tribble, president and CEO of the sponsor for this podcast, Edges Skills. Thank you for being here Dr. Tribble.
Thank you so much and David so excited to be with you too. You know, we've got we go back a few years and really respect what you do so I'm excited for all guests but particularly excited to be with you here today David so thank you so much for taking out the time, taking time out of your busy schedule to be with us.
My pleasure, Taylor. My pleasure.
Well, listeners that you know that we love to sit back and have some conversations with some amazing educational leaders in our community and it is truly an honor to get to be in this space with David Rogers and I just want to, to be able to take a moment to say thank you to all of the educators
and to all the other listeners out there. This is such an important topic talking about culture and the connections that that we all have some distinct and also some shared. And so I'm excited to dive in and just try to understand more about this amazing human that we have in our presence
in the field of education and most specifically multi-lingual and multicultural education David Rogers but we want to pass it off to you, who is David Rogers a little bit about who you are your past where you started, and all the way to where you are today and the great work that you have truly led
nationwide to be part of the process to create what is the largest, or not maybe just by yourself of course but with a great team, but to be part of that process to have the largest dual language education conference in New Mexico.
And so we just want to pass it off to you and see a little bit about what that journey was like. Oh my goodness. Thank you so much. I mean you referred to somebody as an amazing human. I hope we're all amazing in our own way and I've had an amazing journey.
So thank you very much for like giving me an opportunity to kind of share where I've begun in this journey. I was born in New Jersey, Newark, New Jersey, to be specific, and had a wonderful upbringing in a very diverse community mostly Puerto Rican, African American,
where amongst my friends or the groups that where I got my friendship from and my support, growing up. And that changed over the years as well as we were all a community of immigrants, my family, coming from Germany and Ireland, my great grandparents.
But anyway, I guess I always liked school, I didn't love school, but I liked organizing and I liked being part of a community and learned from a very early age that nothing can really change for the better unless we do it together.
And as I finished my college degree, I wanted to see the world, I wanted to see what else was out there. And so I joined the Peace Corps, I was in Paraguay, South America for four years between 86 and 90.
And some of the things that led to where I am today, or the things that happened in South America was I didn't, I was not fluent in Spanish at the time and I knew I would need Spanish, so I went through a three month course in country to develop Castellano, is what they speak there.
Castilian Spanish, if you will, and did okay in those classes, enough to pass and I was able to finally be assigned to a small community in the interior of Paraguay.
And when I got there, I realized that although Castellano Espanol was the language of schooling, the official language of the country, not a whole lot of people spoke it, at least not for social purposes.
It was an indigenous language, Guaraní, that everyone spoke, and that was the preferred language of the community. It was the language of power, truly, in a dictatorship.
And I think that was one of the reasons why this language was so valued and preferred.
But in school, we had to speak and teach in Castellano.
And what I noticed in my second, third grade, we saw a lot of kids sort of opting out of school and going to work in the fields.
And the reason for that is if you couldn't master the language of Castellano, then you really had no possibility of continuing into colegio or what would be middle high school years.
I would say probably 10 percent of the kids actually went on to secondary school.
And so it wasn't anything dishonorable, not at all.
But my observation showed me is that some of these kids, I fell in love with all these kids as I worked with them as a fellow teacher and educational volunteer.
It wasn't, let's say, the kids less prepared for academics in school that were opting out.
It was some of the kids that were some of the brightest and had some of the strongest critical thinking skills and were providing already in their young years leadership for the community.
They were the ones that were organizing the football teams on the weekend in order to pass the time and such.
So I just started realizing there was an injustice or at least a situation where access to education or further education was being limited by language.
And that's where I just naturally I did not know what dual language education was.
I didn't know what bilingual education was.
I just knew that it was a shame that these kids weren't continuing forth with their academic development simply because teachers weren't allowed to use the language of the community, which was Guanani.
And so fast forward four years, I came back.
I wasn't a certified teacher when I went into the Peace Corps.
I came back with with the intent of getting my degree and my teaching license done.
And so I went to went to New York City and I enrolled in a program, Masters Level Program, got my education degree, and I taught inner city for two years as part of that degree program.
And I learned about dual language education.
And so we need this crazy, wonderful Colombiana was working in in a number of schools in Upper Manhattan and Spanish Harlem.
And she was responsible for the kinder through middle school dual language education programs there and immediately she invited me to be a part of the movement, as she referred to it as.
And so she taught with her for a few months in her programs and then moved up into the Bronx and basically and taught special needs kids language.
Excuse me, behavior disorder children actually in the South Bronx.
About half of the kids in my class were there because of linguistic issues.
They didn't have any behavior issues.
They simply did not have a command of English when they came into school, frustrated themselves, frustrated their teachers and ended up special ed.
They were identified as special needs and were in my class.
And so I started to apply what I had learned from Ruth in my own classroom and had a good percentage of those kids reclassified or back into the mainstream classrooms within a year and a half.
And so that was sort of like I was like, there's something to this dual language.
There's something to this utilizing a student's complete linguistic repertoire. That is the language that they have from their home from their birth utilizing that language within the school program, even for academics is going to help push them along.
And so I mean, I continued to study that I came out to New Mexico in 1992.
I was involved in a bilingual education program, Dolores Gonzalez Elementary and worked with the wonderful Dora Ortiz. Dual language education was not in place yet in New Mexico or hadn't been for some 35 years or so.
Do you mind if I ask you a question about New Mexico? Why New York to New Mexico? What's the backstory there?
That would be an important part. So my wife at the time or my practice wife is, as Rosie would say at this point, we are still dear friends.
But Cam was was born and raised in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and I met her in the Peace Corps.
And we married in South America and made it through my education in New York City, where she also taught.
And then we needed we had one child and one on the way. And so after finishing up grad school, it was either New Jersey, where I was from, or New Mexico.
And that wasn't a real hard decision. So we came out to New Mexico where we were going to raise our children and marriage didn't last.
But this was the best place for me to raise my kids. And so I began teaching or I continued my teaching career here in New Mexico.
So, yeah, that's that's kind of a nice little point there, isn't it?
Well, yeah, I mean, I didn't want to really interrupt, but I was like, that's a pretty big job.
It really is. Halfway across the country.
Yeah. So that was I think I think the marriage was over, but I was still a happy father teaching in New Mexico in 95.
And around that same time, the state of New Mexico, the public Ed Department here was offering mini grants, pilot grants for starting new language education programs.
And I knew about two language education. I knew about developmental bilingual education in general.
I had a couple of colleagues at Dolores Gonzalez Elementary that also had studied two language,
knew that it was the preferred bilingual education program model for the Chicano movement back in the late 60s, early 70s,
or the Brown movement, depending on which part of the country you were in.
And yet it had been watered down, meaning that it had started off as a way to develop and preserve mother tongue while English was was mastered by kids in programs.
It got watered down in the fact that the focus changed to, OK, we'll use mother tongue until students have enough English that they can then continue their education in English only.
And so we were returning in the 90s. There was a movement to bring dual language education back where we were not going to ever leave mother tongue or the non-English language in a dual language setting.
We were going to continue to develop both the language from the home as well as continue to develop academic English.
So we received some pilot grants in 95, 96, I think, here in New Mexico, five schools, two in Albuquerque, three down near the border with Mexico and in Las Cruces and in Gadsden ISD.
And immediately teachers from these five programs were reaching out to each other and saying, what's going on? What are you learning?
How is this going now that you're doing what you've wanted to do and you have not only a little bit of extra money, but you have permission to do this the way we've wanted to do it.
What's happening? How is it going? We decided to get together at the end of that school year and sort of share promising practices.
And that was the first La Crucecha conference.
We expected 32, 34 people, I think we had on our list that we invited and we thought, okay, we'll have a nice group of 30.
We held it at Dolores Gonzalez Elementary in the library.
We invited Rosa Molina from at the time she was in Riverside, excuse me, she was in, yes, she was in Riverside out in California.
And she had been touring the country talking about dual language education.
She had received a grant to talk about the success that they were having in their school district with dual language.
And so we invited her out to be our keynote.
But we had 80 people registered for this event within a week, even though we had only invited 30 or 32.
So we knew we were on to something and we knew that there was a real interest.
And that was that's what sort of solidified La Crucecha. And next year we'll we just finished our 29th.
Next year we'll have our 30th La Crucecha conference.
It's continued to be... How did you come up with the name La Crucecha?
It was my my hermana Frances Sanchez who thought the idea that we needed to have a proper name for this.
And she felt that she wanted something that was professional, but yet it also focused on our need to celebrate the linguistic gifts and the cultural gifts that we have in our communities.
And so La Crucecha significa the harvest.
And so the idea was, is we were going to come together and celebrate the harvest together, you know, what we have learned, what we have to share, what we have to celebrate.
And so La Crucecha is not only a professional conference, and if you haven't been, shame on you. You need to get your butt to La Crucecha.
You definitely need to go.
You must be there.
I mean, I'm not saying that's just because you're a guest, but it's hands down the best, one of the best or the best, dual language bilingual education conferences there is in the U.S. and probably internationally.
Well, thank you, Taylor. And we feel that way too. And that's part of this journey that we're on.
When Frances, who's still with us and just one of my favorite people on this planet, came up with the idea of Cosecha, we built the conference to not only include professional offerings.
This year we had over 300 presentations, workshops, but also a focus on celebration and networking.
So as you know, the event, we break bread together, at least for lunches each day.
We have evening receptions. We have a comedy night. We have a dance. We have a peña musical. We have a powwow, a true traditional powwow with our native brothers and sisters.
These are all things. We didn't have them in 96, but these are things that we had. We've had the peña since the very beginning, and then soon after that had a dance.
But we do all of these things just to kind of remember how special our communities are, especially in a world that's still brutal.
I mean, it still comes from a colonizer, Eurocentric, English monolingual perspective here in our country in the United States.
And those teachers and those administrators and those students and families who are out there engaging in quality language education are constantly up against that political pressure to go English only
or to not place the same value on Spanish for most of our programs, but Hmong or Urugu or Mandarin or all the other languages that we find in our dual language programs to say they're somehow inferior to English.
And I find that so laughable in some ways as a white male in the United States growing up here. Culturally, I've been confused since birth.
Yeah, I may have been raised in English, and my English may be better than many of the kids that I taught, but I certainly don't have rich cultural connections.
I have rich immigrant connections. I have special people in my life that I knew that came from other places and they were very exotic to me and I was always interested to learn from them.
But ask me what my culture is. I'm like, I'm not sure. Culturally, I remarried in my journey in 2004 with someone that I met through the La Cosecha Conference, Rosie Gonzalez, a phenomenal dual language teacher.
And she's Mexican American. And so we had two daughters together, so I have four daughters in all, and my younger daughters are Mexican American, of course, too.
That's mostly what guides our cultural identity here in our class and in our class in our in our in our home, which sometimes is our classroom.
But, you know, it's been, whether it's Cosecha or the way that we raise our own daughters, it's just been a constant in this journey.
It's been a constant struggle, but also a constant blessing to remember that not only is this work hard, but it's also filled with opportunity to celebrate and to see each other more fully,
because we accept each other more fully in the fact that we have multiple languages spoken.
And even in those those different languages, we have multiple cultures that are represented there.
And we have and we get to pick and choose which of the traditions and the norms that we follow.
And we're getting ready for the Christmas season now. And, you know, Christmas, pre-Rosie, before I met Rosie, Christmas was Christmas.
Now it's well, it's Christmas. And then we have to prepare for Dia de los Reyes and, you know, January 6th.
And, you know, it's it just gets kind of gets richer and richer.
And Halloween now is not my favorite holiday anymore because we really focus on Dia de los Muertos.
You know, it's it's a cultural tradition that seems to make more sense to us. We're very spiritual people.
Halloween is not very spiritual, in my opinion, and yet we've got this opportunity to remember our ancestors during that time of the year and such.
Anyway, I hope I'm not getting a little sidetracked on my journey, but.
No, it's fantastic. And I, you know, I really appreciate you saying you said something that really I felt it in the same way is that you asked me what my culture is.
And I don't know if I can really articulate that as much, but I could articulate a culture where and I've mentioned this before.
Some of you listeners might remember this, but my salsa partner, Marutis from Colombia, and she said, you're adopted.
You're adopted. You're part of us. You're like and so and I and I take it very seriously and I wear it as such a badge of honor.
And I'm so thankful to get to be in those spaces and share that.
But I think if you ask me which culture, you know, do I most identify with at least it would be it would I could articulate that in a better way that I could articulate maybe my own personal culture, which is just an interesting thing.
Also as a white male growing up here also.
Well, and I just encourage it's been part of my journey. It's also my mission to is I just encourage you and everyone out there to continue to explore what is the culture that maybe you were you were born into, but maybe weren't given enough explanation or guidance or support or encouragement to understand because I'm I'm very blessed to have my two parents who are very white.
And in their in their late 80s. But as I explore more I asked them about members of the family that were gone early in my in my formation, you know, I asked more stories about them.
I get to explore how they were affected and sort of what their cultural identity was that didn't get passed on to me not because they didn't want to but maybe they maybe this political pressure right that that's not as important as being white bread, you know, apple pie and all that kind of stuff.
Yeah, so there's a reference to in reference to you have mentioned your grandparents great grandparents being from Ireland and Germany.
Did you hear any stories about repression of language or culture within your family.
Not not a whole lot. And in fact, I don't have confirmation and I'm hoping I'm working on that now about my the Ireland connection. It doesn't come out in your DNA test because Ireland actually wasn't one of those places on earth that was populated since the beginning it was there were nomads there and there was more immigrants to Ireland and then from there to the US so we're trying to figure that out.
But I do have one one story Taylor about my great grandmother from Germany, who spoke eight languages and yet didn't read or write any of them.
And I remember how love she was in the community she she was in she worked for Jewish immigrants who actually brought her to the States, and she was a domestic and worked in their bakery, and she spoke Yiddish.
She was married to Ukrainian. She spoke German she spoke Polish, she spoke English, and I remember when she was quite on in years, and we would visit her on Sunday.
I had learned from my kindergarten teacher a German song. I had an old German teacher that came from the Midwest actually, who had relocated to Newark, New Jersey and taught kindergarten from her piano bench and she would, there was lots of music in that classroom.
She taught us a German song and my mother was so excited that we were going to go see my Mima.
And I was going to get to sing to her in German.
And on that Sunday afternoon we went there and my great grandmother used to do certain things that made me feel so special she would make me stop she would say stop, turn around let me see you all you're a good looking boy and she would just bathe me in these compliments
and then she would, you know, give me a big hug and stuff and my mom said well sing sing for your Mima you're in the song you learned, and I got about two lines into the song and she stopped me.
And she said, David, we don't need to sing those songs here.
And I realized, and it stuck with me obviously I'm sharing that today, that you know, surviving the war she had immigrated at the beginning of the First World War or during the First World War just when it was beginning, and then watching the Second World War and how
the Germans were then looked at here in the United States. She didn't want me to be subjected to whatever she had to go through being here as it is known as a German woman.
And so I realized that language was power and language, you know, not always in a good way.
And it can be used against you as well. And so that stuck with me. That stuck with me and that may be the other reason why my parents, unknowingly were sort of whitewashing my culture right they were trying to shoot for something that was created in the United
States you know that didn't recognize or celebrate, you know, the cultures that our, our ancestors and our elders came from, you know, it's quite interesting.
My parents are a little bit. Yeah.
Was that was that sufficient Taylor.
I mean I wasn't looking for anything specific I kind of imagined I could foresee some some sort of anecdote like that that's kind of, I think, in some sense universal here in the US with us, white people you know, and that you cut both brought up like not knowing our own
background and we we didn't have in some sense have, I feel like lost ourselves by not not keeping up or going through that whitewashing period so I just always it's curious to me that also just interesting has some relevance to my personal experience with
language to you mentioned.
Not that, you know, she wasn't literate your grandmother not being literate.
I remember being in India, buying a banana from a guy who spoke six languages and I was just stunned you know because here in the US we have this perception if you're multilingual you're fluent, you, you're intelligent, and not that they're, they're not intelligent
I have a very high level of intelligence to be able to speak multiple languages but it kind of opened my eyes to the fact that multilingualism isn't out of reach for people just because you know their circumstances in life.
It's, it's true and the thing that it's not out of, it's not out of sort of it's it's anyone can learn multiple languages, but what happens in a country like the United States where we were in general there's a bad, there's this nationalistic feeling by so many that
we don't have any language of importance. We don't have the same opportunities to learn or more, more importantly practice the languages that we're trying to learn as you do in any European country and we've traveled a little bit in Europe and it's very commonplace to hear people speaking
in their second language not in their first just for whatever reason because of context because of a desire to, you know, improve. And we don't have that same, same situation here in the US, but anyway so, so I should probably get back to the story since that was such a big piece of what I was
mentioning at the beginning, we start asking questions and it just, it just goes, we get into this great conversation. I think it's a lot of fun personally, there's no major agenda, but to what you want to speak to.
Well thank you. So this is what I would like to say is that yeah, Cosecchia is a great thing and I think I've given plenty of reason to show you why I celebrate it all the time.
Why is it such a great thing? Well I think it's because it came from the community, it came out of a need, it came out of a group of people who realized that, you know, not everywhere in the United States or I should say in very few places in the United States, you have such support for
learning new languages and for learning new languages in such a significant way, not just in a social setting, but also in an academic setting and also in a communal setting. And so Cosecchia was built on that and it continues to honor that as it's grown into a
conference that each year has well over 3,000 people and has different components. Teachers are still the driving force, it's a conference by teachers for teachers. Why is that important? Well, teachers know their kids well, they know their families well, they know
that language isn't just language, it's got cultural underpinnings and so they understand the kind of presenters that we're trying to, that we need to hear from. They know where the inspiration is coming from in the community, around the country, around the world, and so they help with putting the program together.
But that led to another part of this is a lot of us, a lot of people know us as the Cosecchia people, but it's dual language education in New Mexico that starting in 2005, actually starting in 2000, began to provide other services to communities that wanted to replicate the success of
dual language education in the schools that we were working with here in New Mexico, as well as, and it was happening in other places in the country too, like in DC or in Dade County, down in Florida, up in Colorado as well. I mean, it's been other places, but we began to provide some services and it began with the development of a set of standards which is now known as the guiding principles for dual language education.
So that was part of our journey because that launched us into putting together a nonprofit that wouldn't just continue to host the La Cosecchia Conference, but now has 24-7 sort of services available from everything from program design and development down to instructional support for content, language, and literacy in the dual language setting.
I'm very proud to have been a part of that. I can never say I'm just proud of that because I feel like I don't know how much of the credit I deserve or anyone who deserves, and I'm very, very conscious of the fact that anyone who's been involved with dual language education deserves a slice of that pie.
It's been a wonderful journey and I'm smiling. You can't see that in the audio, but I'm smiling from ear to ear because I'm in my last days as an employee of the nonprofit dual language of New Mexico after being involved as a paid staff person for 20 years and then add another 7-8 years onto that.
It's been a wonderful, wonderful journey. We just finished, I think I already mentioned that, our last La Cosecchia.
And as we were putting the materials together for that program and stuff, I realized that we now employ 20-plus people as staff and we're still working with a dozen or so contractors in the work that we're doing year-round for communities around this country.
And it makes me feel really, really good. Probably the best part of this is that DLNM is under the direction of folks like Michael Rodriguez, now the new executive director, Lisa Meyer, Azul Cortez, Melanie Gatewood.
These are all folks that are a part of the leadership team. And some of these people like Melanie, who was actually a student in one of our dual language education, okay, I'm sorry.
She was my first grade student in a dual language program all those years ago and now is our director of operations.
So we've got this legacy that's sort of still building. And I'm hesitant to claim what part of that's my legacy, but I tell you, when it comes from the community, in Espanol, siempre decimos siempre mejor en comunidad, which is a big Paulo Freire term that's used that basically says it's much better.
It's always better to make decisions and to do things as a community than it is as an individual. And I know people, I know I always understood that, especially in the diverse communities I grew up in, but I really didn't understand it until this work started.
Because doing things as a community is often, usually takes more time. It's a little trickier. It takes time to get everyone's opinion. It takes time to get everyone an opportunity to speak, to listen, to try to incorporate everyone's ideas.
But the product, the result is always, always much better. And Cosecha, as one of the best dual language conferences in the world, as Dr. Triebwell had mentioned, is a testament to that.
And as is the rest of the work that Duolanguage of New Mexico is doing.
In my experiences, I would think that it's so successful because I think that everyone kind of resembles and reflects upon what you were talking about, about no one taking credit for it, right?
It was about the integrity of the community working together. And I think that because everyone has that mindset and that thought process that it allowed that to happen, which therefore helped it to become such a leading conference.
And I think that comes from a very special place in all of your hearts. I think it's remarkable.
I would add to that one thing I really respect about you, David, is your humility. While it's true that, you know, as they say, it takes a village, you've planted so many seeds that have really grown, you know, just as an example.
As when I was the, I think, president-elect for Oklahoma Association for Bilingual Education, had the opportunity for you to come present as the keynote.
And then the following year is the year we finally, we really pushed, and it did take a community, but a tribute to the work of our organization in working with the State Department.
The State of Oklahoma finally approved the Seal of Biliteracy, and I think that the seeds you planted, the work that you have done and your organization has really influenced Oklahoma and many states beyond.
So I really respect you for your humility, but know for a fact that you've really planted a lot of seeds that continue to grow and provide fruit to everyone.
Well, we could just make this one big love fest, couldn't we?
Let's just say when it comes to education, the Oklahoma Association for Bilingual Education is in, you know, is in some tough waters, you know, right now.
So, and has been, I mean, you know, on and off. So I just want to point that out, too.
I may, you know, dealing, I may have had some influence on that organization in Oklahoma, but no one knows how to do it better than those who are in the trenches there and, you know, all power to you.
Humility is a tricky thing. Sorry.
No, it definitely is. I think I think that overall it's about some sort of, on some level of collective impact.
All of us knowing that, you know, as a global citizen recognizing that what happens here also impacts the other side of the globe, but also within our own country and beyond, but all the work that we're doing here and I feel very united in that, that the work that I'm doing here
I hope is supporting work that's happening in New Mexico and the work in New Mexico is helping support work that's happening in California or any other place, right. Just for example.
But I am, I believe, even if I don't know you have never met you before, perhaps, but you're in the field of dual language education, you probably have experienced this, we feel like there's an automatic connection between us because there's some level we just kind of get each other in a way.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's, that's, that's something really special that you don't feel in every field all the time and so I'm really grateful for that, for that community at large, and then thankful for the communities locally, with whom I get to work and you get to work as well.
Yeah, and yeah, yeah, I can never pay back what those blessings that we've gotten. And, you know, that's why I was gonna say humility is a tricky thing because I think if you're humble enough, it gives you access, and it gives you acceptance at the community level that just
opens your eyes and gives you access to information and, and, and love and emotions and emotional support that you, you can't possibly ever access if, well actually I'm just, hopefully I'm just putting this together if you're, if you're someone that say who's
arrogant, or, you know, who puts their privilege first, I mean, those put up barriers that just cut you off from the rest of the community. So humility in some ways very selfish.
It's a selfish thing, because it gives you access to something that you wouldn't normally have access to unless you were humble.
And so, and if you know that then are you humble.
You can't fake it though.
Well, people that are trying to be humble but aren't, it's pretty obvious. That's true. We can have a, we can have a debate about that but I hopefully you catch my point.
You're really good at faking it, David.
But maybe, well, but, but that's the point though but if I know that I'm going to get more out of the situation by, by maintaining my humility. Right. Then am I humble. Do you know what I'm trying to say like if I do that if I make that decision.
That's so tarot cure, and I'm just so, am I manipulating my situation for my benefit, you know, so it's, it's just a thought that comes by once in a while, because I have, I think what you're, I was gonna say I think what you're doing is leading with integrity, because integrity
means it doesn't matter who is getting the credit means that the right thing is happening.
And so I think that between being humble and having integrity, we can do a lot of great work. Like Mater says just get her done, you know, like I could care less.
The hardest question and I've been on some publications, and they always have been with other authors and stuff. The hardest question to ask is, whose name goes first.
Those have been the hardest conversations because it's just like, I, how do you, how do you decide that, you know, it's like who gets to heaven first or who gets into paradise.
You know, it's like, I don't know if we are if we're all deserving that can we hold hands and walk through together you know I mean I don't know.
I was taught by a great principle one time that the leader always parks in the last parking spot, you and everyone else have the first parking spot so I always think about that often.
That's awesome. Thank you. But if you know if you know if you parked in the last parking spot if you're here.
Don't worry.
We will be right back.
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And now, back to the show.
I want to circle back around real quickly you.
The story that that you mentioned and you brought up whenever you were with your grandmother and you were going to sing that song in German, and then you fast forward all the way to to La Cosecha, right and just that difference.
I feel like and if I'm misspeaking, please jump in and correct me.
But that that moment of we don't need to sing that song here and what that environment was and what the beliefs and the feelings were versus now we're in 2024, almost 2025 you're going to have the 30th annual conference in Albuquerque, New Mexico next November.
And that's where the, the sentiment and the emotion behind it is very much of celebration and pride and asset based lenses and identity and culture and the richness that this is.
And that's a very big shift from, I think what maybe you had experienced or maybe felt perhaps as the child to in this leadership role, where it's something that we're going to do and we're going to do it loudly, proudly and on purpose.
Loudly, proudly and on purpose. Yes. I thought of my grandma, I've always thought of my great grandmother through this journey but I do know one particular time was in 2021 when we, we met in person again we did a hybrid conference that year, but we met in person again we
were hoping that we'd get 7800 people we had close to 1700 people that came together we had to be very careful of course it was the fall of 2021 so everyone had an opportunity to get vaccinated but still we still didn't have everyone vaccinated
but anyway, moving from one side of the convention center to the other I was of course working, working, trying to make sure everything ran smoothly. And it was during a break between sessions, and I came.
I was in the atrium of the convention center where most people were gathering and I got to my next stop, and I walked through the door and it hit me and someone said what like what's wrong and I just said, I didn't hear a single word of English on the way over here.
It was just a point of, I guess pride. We, we work towards at least, I would say 30 35% of our presentations are done in non English languages we've done, we've tried to make that 50% since the beginning, we never have been able to hit that but the fact
that our participants were all comfortable conversing and being in a non English language, you know, at least, at least the people I walked past in that that moment, just was so wonderful, you know, and it was certainly a time I thought about my great grandmother.
Now, now that story I tell about my great grandmother that sounds like horrible like why would she do that to her great grandson you know, but I know she I know she was preparing me for life and life's reality.
I can also tell the story of how my dad and I used to go down to her house on Thursdays because that's when she went and cashed her check at the bakery.
And then we would walk down the main street in Jersey City, and she would pay her utility bill, her phone bill. She had a little bill at the woman's clothing store, and then we would go to the diner for lunch.
And on that route on the on Main Street, I don't know how many different languages she was speaking but she was loved and she greeted everyone, not only in the language but in probably the traditional way.
She understood the cultural underpinnings to each of those languages. She was so well loved. And then when we got to that diner, she would pick up, or she would receive the menu and she'd look at it.
She didn't read. So she would wait for the waitress to leave our table and she put it down and she said to my father, Richie, order me something with chicken.
So, I'm just, I'm trying to figure out the celebration here but the fact that she didn't have to read or write in order for her to use her language to show her love and to be fully accepted in this community is very diverse community she lived in.
And then you can say she also called upon her resources, which was her grandson and my father, you know, in order to order her lunch but those are just much very wonderful times and I remember there was an argument in this in the family about whether she spoke Spanish,
because now I speak Spanish and my family knows that. And my aunt Carol said, no, she spoke Spanish. And we said, how do you know? She said, when the Cubans arrived, which was about 67, 68, a little bit earlier, a little bit earlier, but there was a big influx of Cubans during that time.
And they came into Jersey City and she talks about how my great grandmother welcomed them. So, we knew that she spoke Spanish as well. So, I don't know, I just want to make sure that people understand my great grandmother where she stopped me in that moment to say that I didn't need to speak German.
She also was a phenomenal model of multiculturalism and multicultural competency that she had in order to make sure that everyone knew that they had a seat at her table, if not in her community.
Yeah, I think that sentiment of her wanting to prepare you for something, I think, you know, I think that preparation for what something like she had experienced but I think then I think our conversations we want to be able to change that for other kids, so that way they can be prepared to share it as opposed to have to set it aside for maybe only home purposes.
You know what I mean? That way they can really come out and get to express themselves in these different languages and have that be something that that's what we're trying to strive toward, as opposed to maybe, you know, jump into this vehicle of your, of this dominant language and dominant culture, and then leave yours on the side, versus bringing all this in together so that way all of our boats rise and we get to celebrate who we are, our cultures, our past, our heritage.
And that's a great way of explaining it in your, and I know that there was a, there's been some Dene leadership that we've worked with and they use similar wording to what you've used there, Kelly, in saying that if school is, if organized schooling has its place in the tribal, in the tribes, in the pueblos or in the reservations,
they have got to make sure that they do not ask Dene children to leave their Dene at the door, to leave it aside, to put it to the side. They have to understand they come to that door, complete Dene, completely in Dene.
And so when you were saying that I was thinking about that too, and again, hopefully, hopefully, I shouldn't say hopefully, certainly a benefit of what at least people think I'm humble have allowed me to be part of those conversations and to hear that.
I think most white people probably haven't had that opportunity to hear Native thought and Native perspective on why these institutions like educational institutions have not been fully accepted in Native lands, because they've asked people to put who they are aside.
My grandmother, for example, she would always pray in German and read the Bible in German with her grandmother and so I do know that part of my ancestry, I may not know a lot about the culture, etc.
However, my grandmother is a product of having another language and then that being strategically taken away through a subtractive process, and then therefore not passed on to me and I often wonder what would that have been like had she still been bilingual in English and in German,
and I myself, you know, learning German growing up as well and then venturing into into Spanish and other languages and so there, there are parts of us that maybe we don't even necessarily know about sometimes until later on as we're older and we learn that
wow, I didn't realize that you also had another language but now you don't have it anymore and sometimes there's that feeling of someone I don't even know took something away from me before I was born, you know, like I wish I would have had that as well because I think these are really important parts that are that are inside of who we are somehow just part of our being and in our souls.
Well, and there's probably a lot that we haven't figured out we're given was given to us in the right way that we just we haven't acknowledged and therefore can't celebrate.
True, true. About about 15 years ago after I started on this journey.
My dad said something to me says no I don't feel like having dinner I'm just going to nosh. And I said, Dad, you know, how, how, how bilingual are you and he says, I'm not bilingual I said, you speak a lot of Yiddish.
I use a lot of Yiddish words he says no I don't.
And I went through a list of about three words that my dad uses that I've come to understand that those are Yiddish words he never, never knew. And so well where did he get that from it had to be his grandmother.
I mean, she's.
He spent a lot of time with her in the bakery.
And where Yiddish was used a lot in Jersey City. I mean, you know, my dad didn't even know that, you know, can you give an example of a word or two.
You know, nosh, kibitz, you know, kibitz is like you know just chit chat, you know, we were just kibitzing or nosh and is like snacking instead of, you know, like a full meal.
Of course there's the colorful words like putz and you know like you're an idiot.
I mean, yeah, there's just all these words that are in our book in our language and I because I left, I think my New Jersey roots and many of my family never did. I got to talk to people and realized where those words came from, my dad never really gave it much thought until 1520 years ago, you know, when I had that conversation with them.
Here there was so much trans language and going on with it. Right mobilizing the entire linguistic repertoire right there. Yeah, no, it's fantastic. So, how have those experiences of your of your travel in the past what what you've explained about your your time in the Peace Corps traveling to other
places and all the work that you've been doing the experiences from your great grandmother your family, all of that and how does that translate into what you teach your own children about. So not just what we do in our schools but even like within your own, your own family unit.
So how are those conversations, how are those conversations different from the ones that maybe you experienced versus the ones that now you're having with your own children. Yeah, and I think you checked out just for a little bit there so make sure I understand the question about
the travel experiences is that where we were, or are we going, what was that travel experiences, your professional experiences personal and professional getting here but just but just hearing that story and make it makes me wonder.
You experienced certain conversations and types of conversations to where we are today from, and then all the way from lack of data, and the very first conference, all the way until now, but I'm sure that somehow that's impacted with with you and with Rosie as well the
conversations that you have with your children about language and culture.
You know, I think.
Yeah, I think the conversations we have is.
But let's say, sometimes we talk about this in a challenging way we say we live between two worlds we have two languages that we speak at home, each of those have their own cultural underpinnings and there is some conflict there especially when our children go out into school and into
the world to come back and our youngest at 17 she has a Down syndrome. She's, she's, she's, she understands Spanish perfectly, but there's she she is definitely tuned into the political pressure right now.
And, you know, kind of refuses to speak in Spanish the joke that's been going on now with her for about a year is that she loves to sing Spanish songs and contemporary pop and and radio songs that are young are young people are listening to now there's a lot of
bilingual music and there's a lot of music. So the joke with us right now is we say to her you can't sing in Spanish, unless you speak in Spanish.
It's really quite, it's quite funny. She is trying to speak more in Spanish but in to sing she sings all the time, I would just say that being in this kind of situation for Rosie and I think she would agree with me on this is we're kind of struggling but not
necessarily in a negative way also a positive way and how we bring those cultures together or how they, how they, they, they obviously all help us to identify who we are right.
They come into conflict sometimes and sometimes they compliment each other so much and nicely kind of enrich both, both sides are both languages.
It leaves open for us the opportunity to teach our kids that there really isn't just one perspective, or one way of doing or seeing the world, there is there's multiple ways of it, and you need to not only value that, because that's that morally
that's what we should do is we should value and validate people's perspectives no matter who they are and what they think, but there's something there to be learned, and I think that's what we want our kids to learn.
It's not just, it's not that we have to, there's a bumper sticker that with all the different religious symbols on it and it says, co-exist. I actually don't like that.
I don't like that bumper sticker. No, I don't want to coexist. I don't want to tolerate one another. I want us to understand that when we see or sense or experience difference, whether that's a different language or a different cultural sort of norm or approach to something that could be culturally based.
There's probably something there we can learn, and we should be, our response should be one of curiosity, not of, oof, let's get away from that.
And I think in the family that we have and in the way we've raised our kids, having two languages, having lots of cultural underpinnings for those languages and family members that we deal with in relationships, I think we've had the ideal situation to kind of teach to our kids
that difference is something to be sought after, to be learned, to learn from, and differences is something to be afraid of or to avoid.
I hope that makes sense. I've never quite actually articulated it, but I think that sums it up.
I was, I was getting a little bit because whenever you said that bumper sticker co-exist, it reminds me of, and then you brought up the word tolerance. I'm like, I understood the meaning, but the word, like, I think it's more than that.
Like, I don't want to just tolerate somebody. I want to share it. I want to know more. And I was just talking to an educator yesterday in a middle school, and we were having a great conversation of just about how enriched our lives have become because we've been able to be exposed
to the fact that we're wanting to just quote unquote, tolerate or co-exist and that was the whole point of our conversation, but that, but that did come up, and it was more about how we want to be able to share and be involved in and not just involved but mostly, you know, also
to share, but then we want to reciprocate that and to create these spaces of invitation. So that way there is nothing to the tune of taking away or saying this one's better than the other, but what does that invitation look like and once you're invited what that sharing can mean.
Beautiful. That's beautifully put and you just made me think of that too, that invitation is if we want to be treated in a certain way, you have to treat others. I mean, I've heard it that way, but by being curious about what's different about you or that doesn't make sense to me, can you explain more?
Well, that leaves the door open for the possibility of you saying to me, I want to understand your perspective more, right? And many times that's the whole thing is we think we're right and you're wrong, right?
But if we listen, we're going to find out we have more in common than previously thought and selfishly I want you to understand my perspective too because I think you need to maybe adjust a little bit your thinking.
So it's also a selfish act too. It's not just one of kindness, but it leads to or it maximizes the possibility of them actually saying, I want to know more about your perspective or I want to understand you more.
That's beautiful, I haven't thought about it that way.
Kelly's quite the word, Smith. Really good with words.
He chooses them very smart.
He's great. I think what we're figuring out here, David, though, is that you're very selfish.
That's the theme of this conversation.
I'm sorry, but that is where my reflection often begins with is how is this selfishly serving my needs?
Because I think it does help me remain humble. I mean, I do. I think being aware of why I'm doing things and keep myself in check, right?
That I'm not doing it just to manipulate the situation, the relationship.
But I really, but it is a selfish act. If I want to know more about you and I learn more about you, I have to approach you in a certain way.
And that is one of humility.
Whenever I'm researching or I'm preparing for a speech or professional development, it's always fun to come across things that affirm you and what you've learned and experienced before.
But I find that the most exciting times is whenever I learn something from somebody else that I didn't know before.
And it's constantly feeling that saved of that sense of safety and security in the unknown and in that curiosity.
And there's just something special whenever you can just put down all of your barriers, just put your hands down and just stand there and then take it in and learn from other people.
And you learn more about yourself because we're all on this culturally proficient journey and that starts from inside of us to the outside.
But we often focus on the outside to the inside. And it's in those moments whenever you most are able to recognize that I do not see the world as it is.
I see the world as I am. And whenever I can start to be in those invited spaces and learn more and recognize the things that I did not acknowledge or I was just unaware of,
it's in those moments that you feel like, yeah, one more barrier broken down, but let's look for that next, you know, barrier so I can break that one down too so I can continue with these guiding principles of bringing all of us together to really find ways to value diversity and institutionalize cultural knowledge in a way that promotes all of us, again, back to the community as a community, while celebrating and elevating the voices of those communities through that feeling of invite.
That's where it's so fun for me personally.
Taylor, I think we should offer Kelly a job. I think there's a future.
I mean, there was a reason why I asked you to be the host of this podcast. I mean, talk about Lovefest, like Kelly's amazing. He's a great communicator. He's a great podcast host. Couldn't get any better.
I just really appreciate this space though, you know, and I don't even remember necessarily how I got so excited. There was a teacher that got me excited about culture and language and many other parts, but you know, just knowing more about Dr.
Tribble's story and listeners, that's the very first episode, so if you want to hear his story, you can go back and listen. And then, but hearing stories of everyone else along the way and then David hearing more of your story. It's so crazy to look back on our lives and the trajectory that it had and go back and think about moments that were key moments that changed our thoughts and our perspectives and our own understanding of self and of others and that relationship.
Whenever in the moment we didn't even recognize that that was going to be such a key moment. And then you but you look back and you think, man, how lucky it was I to go through that difficult moment or that great moment to be able to have, you know, been pruned back in a way to grow more beautifully.
And it takes all of us in that I feel so much of that that it's, it's not about me, you know, and with all respect, not about you, not about it's not about it's about all of us together in this and there's just a big power in that and.
And again, going back to dual language specifically, you can feel that there, because I think people are coming with their shared experiences, and as distinct and unique as they are for each individual.
I wish I could just explain it and articulate it better, but it just you just like glue just get stuck into it or sucked into it and it feels so good because you're with people that even though I don't know you.
I feel like you're very, very deep there. And I mean that comes through language and culture. Yeah. I mean, I have another soul I feel like because of this, but but I mean and we have so many wonderful educators and so many wonderful leaders that are in
a very diverse education also in monolingual education settings that have so many students that are representing different countries, languages backgrounds cultures religions, and it's such a beautiful opportunity for us to again like I said to lean into
and say yes and, and to learn and to create that space for the, for the good for the good conversations to happen. And I wanted to ask you, is there anything that you have experienced specifically working with educators that has been something that you feel like
it would be worth sharing to other educators who are in a situation and they're wondering, How can I best embrace this culture. I actually feel more afraid of it than I do.
Because some of us like me I'm just like, let's go, you could drop me off into a country where I've never been not know the language, and I would know it have to work through things but I would be excited to be there.
And I'm an educator that says like whoa whoa whoa. I don't I don't know what to do. And I want to help this child but in language is the time for acquisition and there's obviously pedagogical practices to get there, but to in language and culture also,
to be specific can't be separated right, but there are things that teachers could do immediately to embrace culture to have that be ever present invisible in their classrooms and in their schools and is there anything specific that you have experienced that you would think
would be something really wonderful to share with those educators currently kind of in question about what to do.
I think you said you know you mentioned fear. And so if there's an educator out there who knows, or for those educator out there, educators out there that know that they maybe don't understand the cultures of their students or the, or those that they serve or their
community in which their school is. If they're a little bit fearful of getting to know or, you know, of getting to understand more or, you know, not knowing where to begin there. That's a good thing, because I think it is scary to open yourself up right to understand a really
practical activity that I was, you know, it's actually frowned upon by some school districts and schools but home visits just to get to know your students better.
It's not just your students that you're trying to get is the parents you're trying to understand.
If you're not proficient in the language of the home, you know, hopefully you have some understanding of the language but you're committing to learning the language.
And I wouldn't say necessarily signing up for a college course but you know some sort of social I mean, you know, communication level not academic level language.
There are classes that focus on that, if, and there usually are in the community where your school is you find them in community centers and you know there's, I know that there was the Association of Vietnamese business people in the southeast side of Albuquerque
and we used to give classes for free on Saturday to our community members. I mean, any attempt to get to know, you know, no matter how successful no matter what your score is on the language says at the end of your first, you know, year or whatever.
That's sort of not even important if the community sees that you're interested that you really want to understand them more that you want to be respectful you want to make sure you're, you're saying and doing the things that are respectful and respectful
and contributing to the better good of everyone. It's, it, yeah, there's no price on that. I mean that's just, that's just so important.
And, yeah, I mean just.
And then as I became an educational leader as well. I mean there was other things that I did is I wasn't in the classroom I wasn't responsible for instruction allows responsible for evaluation of instruction.
But okay as a principal what could I do to show that I care.
I went to more funerals, births, first holy communions, I mean I went to anything that the community would invite me to and once they saw that I would go.
I couldn't do more I couldn't do them all but I mean just showing a general interest in the day to day life of my community really made me human to the community I was responsible in helping lead.
And that's, and I think that's the other piece too is, why should, why should I expect respect if I haven't done anything to show that I deserve it kind of thing.
And you can, you can put in a couple of things why should I deserve access to your thinking, if I haven't shown you that I'm interested in your thinking and give you a way to share your thoughts.
Another thing that happens at schools often teacher and administrators should know this is we do lots of things to parents and families you know we have parent nights and we feed them so there's more people that show up and we do a couple performances
with students that's all great celebration.
But on your instructional council or on your PTA.
Make sure you have things for parents to do before you invite them.
Make sure you have things for the families to do so you're not just inviting them in to do a dog and pony show and then send them on their way feeling good. You actually want them to help out, you know, to help out and be a contributing member to the school community.
So many of our. This isn't the case everywhere but I believe it's the case for the majority is that not everyone decides where they're going to go to school if you live in a certain zip code and this is the school that's in that zip code and you can go on Zillow and see what schools
are around you know and so you live in that zip code and you go to that school, but then many of us that work in that school, we've chosen to go work there but maybe don't always live in that zip code or in that community.
So, I think what you're talking about is of the utmost importance that we've chosen to be there. So now there is this, there's a moral imperative for me to be involved in the community and not doing things to the community, but doing things with the community as well and
sharing in that in that relationship. And that's where I would often remind.
And so this is the this is, this is a place for wraparound services this is a place to learn from the community, and to have that real partnership and not just telling people what to do, but to sit back and to listen to see how we can be doing this together.
I'll take care of the accreditation and the legal components that I need to take care of as the leader or the administrator the superintendent whatever that is, but in the meantime I want to make sure that I'm doing that where it reflects the community
that I've served, as opposed to coming in and to dominate anything at all. So I think that's an important distinguishment also and it goes back to that unity within our community.
Yeah. And if that's our focus of the saying we have in New Mexico is yapake, which in Spanish, sort of a slang Spanish to sort of means like, what good is that like, you always need to know your why, right.
You need to know that needs to be your focus unity, unifying community being part of the community. And if you lose sight of that, it's like yapake, you know we're just doing it to check off the box, or, you know, for some compliance thing that doesn't make sense to us.
That's a needed thing. It's an honor, when I've had those positions to just take care of that so it doesn't get in the way of real school stuff.
And then it was like trying to make sure I as a teacher and as administrator and as a member of that school community just had most of my time to focus on community building and and true supporting of in response to their needs.
I also think that in that same thread that you had mentioned before that lack of access to education, because of language again and so just this community theme, and you said you know to do home visits and Dr.
I think we talked about some presentations about finding your way home, going to the going to the community being at their homes.
You know, creating relationship and trust because those are two incredibly important components to doing anything else. Beyond that, and whenever we do that then we can break down some of those barriers and therefore grant easier access to language and to the education
that we have at the same time, and I just think it's so important to remember how important our community is, and to really elevate them, their voices and their cultures as much as possible.
Absolutely, and they, and they make sure that they have access to the school as well.
You know home visits as you going out that's important, but it doesn't work doesn't always work for all parents they don't necessarily have the conference confidence and stuff but we as a first grade teacher we used to I used to have parents who are willing
come in and let the kids interview them about their, you know, the way they earn their living or, you know, how they got to the community.
You have to be careful and who you invite first but once we did it once we started doing that with a couple of parents who just were had the confidence to do that.
Other parents can see the genuine, how genuinely were and wanting to know who they were. And we had more parents do it now was a great activity as well for for educators.
Yeah, and for other kids, I mean, you know, all our kids, even though they may all speak some level of Spanish.
They still come from very different parts of Mexico or Central America or the I mean they have, you know, they have a very different level of connection to the indigenous populations from, you know, their parents, where their parents grew up.
So, the norms or traditions they follow culturally are very different, very very different.
There's a wealth of cultural richness that that is right there in every single classroom that can be shared, you don't have to, you know, just go find new books on it, you know, no, no, it's right there just study what you have, you know.
Yeah, and that and that and I'm saying that not as an assabelo tolo, you know, someone who knows it all. For me, for me, it was like I, it always, it always blew me away how much we had each year with each classroom, as we started to dig, dig into where our families came from, and who would share and how much they would share.
Yeah, it just always blew me away. I just never expected. And shame on me for not thinking that, you know, it was that rich, you know, what we had to learn just from our own cultural assets that were in our own classroom but yeah, it's been a while since it's been a while since I was in first grade classroom
and I was like, I'm going to be reminiscing it's just like, wow, it never it never ceased to amaze me. It's great reflection for sure and I and I think for all of us right for all of us to take a step back and consider these these points that we've been talking about I was just
talking to you this morning and the conversation about education came up and they were inquiring about how I've been and education in general etc and then speaking specifically about education in the state of Oklahoma and that she was talking with somebody else and
she had this conversation that came up that she felt like she wanted to bring it up to me about, should we be more focused on academics or on identity. And I thought that was a real interesting question.
And some of the conversations are very much more toward, well just the academics and don't worry but just come in here and teach the content and get out and move on. And I said I always laugh and giggle at that, because that's, that's just impossible.
I said keep on walking keep on walking but make sure you're not breathing at the same time but just keep on going. I said because you can't separate those two, you have to be able to build upon identity within the academic setting to do simple things, I say simple but common
things like building background knowledge and things of that nature which it's way deeper than just that. But I thought it was interesting that they were trying to highlight the distinguishment and the separation of academics versus identity, and it was exciting
to be in that space to share that. In my humble opinion, they need to be connected and in the opinions of many other researchers, they say the same thing. And so I did ask is this person by any chance an educator they said no and I said, case in point.
Now some were. Yeah, if you're a selfish teacher and you want to make a difference, you focus on both, right? You get to know them, you build relationships like you're not going to get anywhere unless you have those relationships.
That's right. And again, there's that selfishness again, right? I mean you could go ahead and try to academics without focusing on helping them and helping us with their socio-cultural identities and strengthening that, validating that, making them feel that they have something of worth to contribute.
Well, you're just working against yourself if you don't do that.
Well, and it's the same for what we do with our other colleagues and other staff members. It's offering that same amount of excitement and appreciation for the assets and the cultures and the traditions that they bring into the classroom every single day and into our space, just like we want to do with our students.
So I think it's important for that just collectively all the way around to really celebrate the identity.
I mean if that person asked the question as a business person, then you would say, you know, we're just. One was business, one was educator, but nonetheless.
Yeah, because it's like as a business owner, you just focus on the dollars, the numbers, and that's it. Like we're not going to talk to each other, we're not going to ask how you're doing.
It's just we're focused on the bottom dollar here, nothing else.
Talk about selfish.
Well, Mr. Trill is one of my favorite businessmen. I wouldn't say my experience with business and education has been extremely different, you know, and in a very positive way, because they're worried about workforce.
You know, aunties can all that right they just want to make sure that we got product coming out of the school system that's going to fill the positions they have with people who can do their job well.
Well, at least in New Mexico, they're very much aware of how the socio cultural identity of these individuals and how they're going to interact with the clientele of their businesses, how important it is that they have that, you know, down strong as strongly as well.
So I'm guilty as also saying you know being cold hearted, you know, business person and the way they look at you know what we need to get out of our educational system but I actually have been through my work with Hispanic education advisory council for example we had a lot of business people on that council.
And they truly wanted the kids not just to have the academics down but they wanted them to be ready for life, and that meant being able to be effective in engaging with clientele of their business and also other other employees should be about.
That's right. Not the test score. No, it's not the most important thing.
Believe it or not, I'll let you, I'll let you fight that one.
I think there was that distinguishment though and obviously they are different different settings and scenarios between education and in a business but I think that sometimes where the mishap occurs is whenever we treat education like a business which there are business components
that are going to do it with taxes and the bonds that you're passing and some of the legal stuff but whenever we're right there with boots on the ground in the classroom. That's not a business that's that that's working with other humans, little
fundamentally there are there are commonalities in the sense like if you want to be a successful teacher if you want to be a successful business person.
Everybody's got their own definition of success, but you want to be able to build relationships with people, make connections and make a difference and care care about other people care about your students care about your employees like that really matters.
And I think that those are the most successful educators are the ones that actually are building those relationships with families and the kids.
I was Kelly being one of them I got the pleasure of observing Kelly's classroom and David, you would have loved it. We connected at like through through through education out of school.
And he is the most dynamic educator I've ever seen he had his little chihuahua with them.
The kids, he would dance and I mean he's just like have so much fun with the kids.
And we're not teaching anymore Kelly, we're done with that part of our lives, you know, fortunately, doing consulting work, teaching teachers.
I mean, I mean classrooms almost every single day still which has been really really wonderful and literally almost every single day it's been fantastic and also currently as an adjunct professor at a university and their bilingual education
program so definitely still a teacher and educator by by profession trade and in my heart, and always just very very thankful to also be a continuing student, all the time, and this world and learning from others, much like yourself and I remember back in
2022 whenever it was your very last year as the executive director at Lacosaecha, and that was my first time to be able to participate in Lacosaecha and so I was really thankful that I was able to see you and hear your speech at that time,
and I just go back again I think about all these moments in my life, and people like you at that moment I didn't know you, you didn't know me, but you were saying things and doing things and the other leaders at Lacosaecha that were empowering me and helping me and pushing me to be
not just a better educator but also a better person. And so I think that there's also a great moment for us to stop and reflect upon that sometimes we don't know what impacts we're having on somebody else who might be in the very back of the room, unnoticed, not even
realizing it, but then they take all that they turn around and they try to do more good with it. So with that I want to say thank you very very much for the work that you've done because it helps people like me, and so it comes from a very sincere place and I'm just very
fortunate to have ever been able to go to Lacosaecha and get to see you, and then now get to have you as a guest on this podcast.
Thank you for keeping it real because yes, it's happening all the time and we need to recognize it and put it forth. We have such an impact on each other, we have such influence over each other and if we can keep that in mind, maybe we'll always be putting our best foot forward as they say,
and doing our best. Maybe that'll help us, maybe that more, it's better to say it'll help keep the batteries energized and it will continue to, it will find the energy that we need to continue forward and doing the good work to remember that it's
quite an encouragement. Thank you, Kelly.
Thank you, we're all interconnected. Are there any last words or thoughts that you would like to share with any of our listeners? Because we could be on here, I could sit with you for hours and discuss, but is there anything else that you would like to leave us with today?
You know, I came out earlier and I just, I don't know why I first thought of it, but I often think of it, siempre mejor estar en comunidad, which is Paulo Freire's big sort of battle cry, you know, that whole thing about it's always better to move forward with community, you know.
And if you try to live that in the decisions that you make in your responsibility as an educator, I think it'll always serve you well. And so just to keep that in mind. And then those who haven't been to Quescha yet, where the heck, you know, when is it, when are you going to get on the ball?
Oh my goodness. I'm not even sure I will be at next year's Quescha because I'm officially now leaving that role, but I will be there in the future for sure. I could just tell people it's just a great place. Someone this year referred to it as their mecca, their place to come back and re-energize, re-center.
And I think we're going to need that, especially moving forward in the next few years. So please consider coming and joining us in Albuquerque next year, the 11th to the 15th November. It's going to be a great, a great event. I promise you.
And listeners, we have the link to the conference for November 11th to 15th, 2025 in Albuquerque, New Mexico in the description of this bio. So make sure to click on it, register, sign up, submit a proposal to present if you would like.
But seriously, it is, and find us, but truly it is, it's one of the best conferences I've ever had the honor to attend. And it's because it does feel like familia.
It feels so, so at home and you say hi to people or you meet someone for the very first time and you become friends and you text yesterday morning, just like another lady that we had just met randomly and had lunch together, breaking bread together.
And you really form some wonderful relationships as well as learn a whole lot for your academic purposes. So I strongly encourage you to attend NACO Secha as it goes back and forth every other year between Albuquerque and Santa Fe.
We definitely hope to see you there. Well, with that, I just want to give another big muchas gracias to you, David, for being here. David Rogers, you are incredible.
And thank you for all of the service in our community and the field of education. You are definitely a supereroe and we definitely appreciate you and are so thankful for you to join us today.
Thank you, Dr. Taylor Tribble for being our co-host today. And again, the CEO and president of Edge of Skills, the sponsor of this amazing podcast.
And last but not least to our producer, Mike Overholt. He takes care of all of the sound to make us look good on video or sound good for the audio. So we thank you so much.
But listeners, we thank you for joining us. Hope that you have some great new information that you can take away and implement into your lives, your jobs, your schools, wherever you are.
And just remember that our community is better whenever all of us are embracing each other. So invite someone, lean into all of this and really, really enjoy the greatness that's all around you.
We thank you so much and hope that you have a wonderful rest of your day. David, thank you again. We really appreciate it. Thank you.
All right, everyone. Have a great one and I'll see you next time and I'll hear you next time. Adios.
Thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to like, follow and subscribe. Adios.
Thank you.