Welcome to Cultural Connections Lab. I'm your host Dr. Kelly Forbes. We are here to talk with educational professionals around the world to impact and influence the education system as we focus on cultural connections and the education of multilingual, diverse students.
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Welcome to the podcast episode of Cultural Connections Lab with myself, your host, Dr. Kelly Forbes. I am excited to be here today with our co-host, Dr. Taylor Tribble, the president and CEO and sponsor, EdgeSkills, for this podcast.
And I'm incredibly excited to be with a friend that I have been able to meet through different conferences and to present to you all, Dr. Jobe Lawrence. Dr. Jobe Lawrence has almost three decades of experience working across all levels in the field of education and as a parent to three grown adult children.
From her early career at the local level as a classroom teacher to serve as the Title III director at a state education agency to her role at the national level as the director for the National Clearinghouse of English Language Acquisition, New Sella, we know it well, to her current role as the director of product development and strategic partnerships for UCLA Crest, the National Center for Research on Evaluation, Standards, and Student Testing, supporting ELPA 21.
She brings a wealth of knowledge and experience and working with students and families. Dr. Lawrence has developed and delivered professional development, publications, guidance documents, and toolkits for use with a variety of education stakeholders to meet the needs of diverse students and their families.
She has conducted program evaluations and more than 300 urban, suburban, and rural schools across the country over the past 30 years. And I also have to mention is an incredible podcast host for the podcast Assets.
So I recommend you to listen to, of course, Culture Connections Lab, but also take time to check out Assets podcast and we'll make sure to have these links for all the listeners in the description of this episode.
So with that, I just want to give a very, very warm welcome to a friend of mine, a colleague in the field of multilingual multicultural education, Dr. Jovi Lawrence. Thank you so much for being here.
Thank you so much for having me. It's really exciting to be here. And like you mentioned, it's, it's a little different being on the other end of the microphone, right, because I'm used to hosting and sort of sitting in your chair and now we're swapped.
Have you ever been interviewed on a podcast, Jovi? I'm trying to think. I can't, not so much on a podcast. I've had like some different interviews for, when I worked at the Outer Department of Education, I was on the hot seat a lot when it came to, like I've been on NPR and some of those radio shows just asking about policy and things like that. So I've done interviews, but I'm not sure I've ever done a full podcast. Cool. Glad this is the first for you. I know guys. Super cool.
I'm going to go listen to that. I will say, I think it was August 19 or around that date, at least when it was published to get to meet the host of assets. Yeah. So there is a link out there.
Yeah, that's true. So I interviewed myself. So I guess in that sense, yes, I've been a guest on the podcast. Yes, but it was my own story. I'm Gemini. I need to do that same thing. You know, Kelly, very nice to meet you.
You really do, because honestly, I mean, folks were asking me to do that for a while. And I, I don't know, I guess I was just hesitant to really dig into like sharing my own story and my vulnerabilities and thinking about like, what really brought me to like the work and where I am today.
And so it took me about a year to really get up the courage to sit down and really think about what I would say about how I came to the work and my journey. But I do think it adds to your point, Kelly, like as the host of the podcast, like what is your connection, you know, right?
And why are you doing this work? And what's your passion around it? So I really after I did that, I was really happy I did. But up until it was time, I was like, No, you know what, I don't want this to be about me. I want to focus on me. I'm focusing on the guests and, and the why. And then it was like, well, enough people were asking, like, we should do something for the host, like, let people know who you are. Like, why are you doing this podcast? And why are you hosting it? So it really turned out to be a great opportunity. But, but you should definitely do it.
You know, I have actually interviewed Kelly. We basically flipped roles, you know, I'm usually co-host because Kelly's a lot better host than I am. I just can kind of interject a few things here and there. But I interviewed Kelly. Thank you, Kelly, for the vote of confidence. So I interviewed him. So, but it would be, it would be fun for you to like, just kind of have your own script without anybody asking questions.
Yeah, you know, I love that. I love that you bring that up though, because I think oftentimes, you know, and getting into the topic today, I think it's important for us to step back and reflect what is our why in this as well.
Because it's, it comes in the face of service. And so in my research and in my passion for cultural proficiency, that journey begins intrinsically with us doing this first. It begins with self. And oftentimes, I find myself being very guilty of always looking on the outside rather than looking more on the inside.
And I have, I've really been intentionally practicing that reflection process to understand my own why behind this and my part in this work that we're doing. And so I think it's, I think it's good for all of us to pause for a minute and reflect and remember that as we come to understand our why, we're part of someone else's why too, because we're doing this collectively.
So, yeah, your experiences are incredibly important to the work that we're doing today. So I appreciate you sharing them. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for giving it a listen. Yeah, what was your biggest takeaway? Right? Assuming you listened, you said you saw it, so I'm assuming you listened.
Yeah. What, what, what has been your, your biggest takeaway in developing your understanding of your role in the field of multilingual multicultural education?
Wow, since we're on the topic. Yeah, yeah. Gosh, so many takeaways. Um, I mean, I've had just an amazing opportunity over 30 years to really work at every level of education, which has given me every different angle and every different perspective. So like, I think I mentioned, you know, in lots of conversations that you and I have had to sort of walk in the halls of conferences, but just, you know, thinking about when you're in the role that you're in.
And like you mentioned, kind of always looking around wondering like, whose responsibility is it and where am I leaning on for, for support and whose fault is it that this isn't happening right we're always kind of looking to see like, why things are either working or not working the way we want them to and as you get into different roles and see it from different perspectives.
You realize like every level of education has its own specific challenges and you cannot look outside yourself for solving the problem at hand. Like whatever problem you have in front of you, you are the only one that can find the solution.
Like if you wait for the feds come up with a law that helps do what you need to do at the district level, you might be waiting a while. If you're waiting for the State Department to issue something in terms of guidance, you might be waiting till the governor changes.
I mean, all these things that you think would be so easy as you move up the chain where somebody who's like at the top of the top is going to make this work for us, right? No, it's not going to work that way.
It really works best if the people closest to the problem solve the problem.
Yep, Taylor, what do you always say ever since you went to the Disney Institute?
Well, you know, it's definitely a common statement that I remember that it may not be our fault, but it is our problem.
So even if it's not a problem that you created, or it's not your fault, the problem is not your fault, you still have options for creating a solution for the problems that are out there.
Yeah, and like you say, I mean, it may not be like a problem, maybe an obstacle, maybe a perceived barrier, whatever that situation is, even though we may not be the ones that have caused it, we're still the ones that are being called to action to go ahead and let's do something about it.
We have to all be collective and do something about it. Well, hey, I'm really excited that you're here.
So listeners, just so you know, a little background on this is that last year in 2023, we were at the National Association for Bilingual Education Conference in the amazing New Orleans, and we had such a fantastic time.
And as you as you just said, we were, you know, we'd walk the halls, we'd see each other, we were having conversations. And I remember in front of the exhibitors hall, we that's where we kind of stopped and started talking about the possibility of doing this podcast together.
And it was around the topic of, of course, we're talking about our multilingual multicultural students, but then that humanity came up for it. And I was like, humanity is not up for debate.
And I think in that moment, you said, that's what we should talk about on the podcast is that humanity is not up for debate, specifically focusing on our multilingual multicultural students and all the diversity that's represented how wonderful it is.
Why did that strike something inside of you and make you get passionate as well?
I think just because so many times we are so focused on the differences right like we have students coming in, they have a different language, different culture, different this different that and at the same time, it's like, if we could take a step back and just pause for a moment to understand.
We all have something in common to write the most important thing that we have in common and maybe the most important thing we need to be focused on is we're all human beings that have the same basic needs.
And if we can approach our students and our families from that perspective from that human element of we all have the same basic needs, and the differences are assets and strengths they bring to that interaction with us.
I just think it changes everything we talked earlier about perception and perspective like for me it's really about that like we how we perceive something is how we're going to react to it.
So if we can start to perceive things from strength based assets based humanity based approach, then sometimes I think it changes from, oh, this is going to be so hard.
How am I going to teach these students? I don't have the strategies. I don't know how to speak the language. I don't know the culture to you know what?
Let me start here.
Child with the same basic needs as all children. They're bringing another language another culture to the classroom, but their basic needs are the same.
Let's start there. And then everything else, whether or not just works itself out and I'm not, please do not think that I'm diminishing the challenge that teachers face and administrators face and families face and communities face when, you know, when they have, you know, really high needs and students have a lot of, you know, struggles that they're, you know, experiencing as they move into new communities into new schools.
At the same time, I think if that's the focus is the struggles and the challenges and the things we can't do, you know, kids pick up on that families pick up on that and they don't feel welcome and they feel nervous.
I was so gosh last night I interviewed a student who I hope everybody will listen to the student voice series that's coming up on assets podcast.
Because I interviewed one of the students who we brought back for a student reunion we had a student voice.
Focus when I was at the Iowa Department of Education, we had a student leadership council that we pulled together so we had the student voice at the policymaking table.
And initially, that group of students wasn't very diverse and I just looked around and said hey guys, where's the diversity here right like I mean, this doesn't look like our demographic in Iowa we've got a changing demographic I would love to see that represented in this group and senior leadership was all on board so we recruited students but I was interviewing one of the students last night for her own personal story after we did the panel a couple students volunteered to do like an individual personal journey.
And what really really struck me about that interview is just what I said which is the things that made the most difference to her had nothing to do with teachers and strategies and had everything to do with a volunteer who helped her figure out how to get access to the public library and helped her develop a love for reading when she didn't read and her
worst memory of school was in first grade sitting around a table with other English learners with a stack of books that none of them knew how to read during reading group.
And so just again back to that idea of humanity which she really remembers most that changed her trajectory was that interaction with a volunteer who just made her feel safe made her feel seen made her feel heard and I think how do we how do we focus that energy back on all of our students
do all of our students feel seen and heard and understood and do our families feel that way.
Because honestly if that's not in place academics is secondary.
The academic achievement is 100% I think that's pretty powerful insight in light of, you know, all the buzz around AI and, you know, people worried about is AI going to take our jobs.
Yeah, it's important I'd say oftentimes that technologies are a long way away if ever able going to be able to build relationships like humans have and that's pretty powerful insight from the student that you interviewed just because like that's what matters is those relationships
obviously learning does but you got to help the student be able to advocate for themselves.
Absolutely.
Just out of curiosity I'm wondering, logistically, Kelly and I have talked about actually interviewing students also, is there, like was the student under 18 if so like how do you know I have interviewed students for other projects under 18 and obviously needing to get
parent, parent permission. So you just get parent permission and you're good to go.
Okay, cool. Anyway, that was a little sidebar.
I know you have a question. I think I think I think it's a good point to bring up though from people that are wondering because, I mean, we can learn everything that we can possibly learn, but the students are the best professors.
Yeah, we need to like, I'm here to serve you. I know what I need to get through I know I have standards to teach I know all of that. And, and of course it's, you know, to echo what you said, Dr. Lawrence I'm not going to try to diminish the challenges that are
in our way. Right. But I think that we can get rid of a whole lot of the obstacles, these perceived obstacles and barriers that are in our ways, if we really create that that space to allow students to have their voice and their choice elevated and we can, you know,
mold things around and manipulate things to make it work for them and still do what we need to for compliance reasons but provide that better, more equitable education for the students because we're there to serve them.
Absolutely. That's my viewpoint my, my belief I choose to go places to work and students. That's their school, they live there and that zip code they go to that school that's their school and I'm so thankful I get to come in and serve in that community.
And I think just the mindset to have you know we're talking about you know teachers taking care of students and taking care of families.
Taking care of their schools and then federal policymakers taking care of their state. I mean, again, it's just really thinking about, like, what's my sphere of influence and who, who can I support and what's my role, and if we're all taking on that role.
Again, just imagine how much better it would feel if you were a teacher, and you're building leader was walking around saying what do you need today what can I do for you today.
You know and all and all and really all of us being that need based sort of support.
And that simple question, how can I help. Yeah, yeah. How can I help how can I do that, you know, I, I always start off whenever I'm doing a professional development or a presentation to show a picture of me from whenever I was a well this little collage
of pictures but from one year old all the way up to a senior in high school. And it's just to remember like we're all teaching someone's baby. Yeah, like we're all teaching someone's, you know, child.
And I wanted to see that and remember that like there was a place there was a time whenever I didn't know what I knew today, I've had to grow I've had you know and I had people around me to support me through all of that.
But I've also learned that.
And again, this is, you know, speaking for myself, I don't always see the way that things are.
I see the way that thing, like how I am, you know, and so I have to always make sure that I'm that I'm trying to be super reflective and seeking to understand and then listening and being quiet as I'm listening, so that way I can be the best role in our amazing
field of education to be able to, to be able to serve what I'm supposed to be doing. And to meet those goals right, but I just think it's so important to just be so reflective about that that if you, if you want to be able to get to the
quantitative goals that we have an education, you were just sharing the example where the student was explaining it was the qualitative components that helped them get there.
It was someone qualitatively getting them to love reading, for example, to get quantitative outcomes for literacy skills, for example, and I feel like sometimes we start with literacy skills.
And not like, right, who is this child, you know, who are you, nice to meet you, from where do you come, I want to learn more about you because then that can help me with strategies like building background, for example, or you know, whatever that looks like, but I need to know that individual
student understand as much as possible. And then, but then also that same practice reflected with our parents and our stakeholders, again, going back to that mindset of service, servant leadership.
Sure.
So, in all of the experience that that you have is, is, is there one specific moment or like a theme or a through line, where you felt like you know if the human side was maybe more of a focus on this what we're discussing would actually make more sense or be more attainable.
And in doing so I'm thinking about what does that look like and like with equity and language education, for example, you know, challenging that mindset of asset based versus deficit based.
And just how are we culturally responsive and what we're doing, you know, bringing in that, that human, that human side where you're not just a number anymore.
And it's not up for debate for you to keep on being put into this other classroom, you could be in the AP class because we know that we have lower numbers of our multilingual students in those in those classes, but is there is there again any through line any theme or anything
where you have felt like you know if the humanity side that human side was really brought to the surface.
It would make more sense for us to be able to complete x goal that we have.
So, I mean, I think just in every role I've ever had always approaching it from that perspective of just thinking about the individual and really understanding that in life.
Some of us are given a privilege. And that's a privilege to be able to get into positions of sometimes it's authority sometimes it's policymaking sometimes it's decision making. But if we're given that privilege, and we have a chance to make decisions
and set policies for others who don't have that same privilege.
That's an honor. And we should wear that as a badge of courage and do not be afraid to step up and say the things that either someone doesn't want you to say, because it doesn't necessarily match the sort of policy and political favor of who's in office right and sometimes
that has to happen. Sometimes it's not the popular thing to say sometimes it's, you know, spoken in ways that people think you're speaking at a turn right.
But if you have that privilege because you were given an option to have that microphone.
You need to use it every second of every day while you have it. And that's really the through line for me is just, I've been really fortunate to be able to be in positions throughout my life where I could have the opportunity to speak on behalf of folks who did not have an
opportunity to speak on their own behalf or their children's behalf or, or their family's behalf so I've tried to use any opportunity I have to speak on behalf and carry the water and the voice that I know is their voice on behalf of them who would love to be able to carry
themselves but sometimes don't have the opportunity. And to me that's how I think I've been able to support equity because as many times as I can I want to make sure that they have a chance to speak on on their own behalf and bring them to the table like we brought the students
to the table we bring their families to the table. We make sure that when there's decisions being made. The group of folks who are making the decision, look like the folks who are going to be impacted by the decision and and have similar experiences.
So I've done that, when I whenever I have the opportunity to do that but when I don't have the opportunity to do that.
I'm on behalf of those students and their families who cannot be there for any reason and for me I think that's one way we can support equity is taking advantage of the privileges we've been given, and the microphones we've been given to tell their stories
and to support their needs in front of our own.
I have a question for curiosity. And for those like myself who have not had the opportunity to listen to your podcast with yourself.
Can you give us a teaser of what like what what, how did you become so, so passionate like what has driven this passion that you've had.
It goes back to Kelly's point about. We only can see the world through our own life experiences right. So giving our children experiences, and is broad and wide range of experiences, interacting with diversity as possible needs to be the goal of every community
because my community when I grew up in southeast Iowa, up until I was in late elementary school. I never saw anyone that spoke a language other than English, I never saw anyone that looked different than me my community was entirely monolingual, very, very, very
like traditional farm community.
But then when our meatpacking company closed down which was a unionized packing company that employed, many of the community members in the packing company and paid very well.
It closed down and opened up as a non unionized packing company and they went and recruited workers from outside of the country and brought them in and paid much lower wages.
And when that happened, my community changed overnight I mean I can't tell you like our diversity went from zero to like maybe 20 to 30 images so quickly and rapidly transforming the community, and I saw how my own family my grandparents, and again,
I'm out of. I mean my grandparents were amazing wonderful people who had like a true and tremendous sense of humanity, but they did not know what was going to happen with people coming into the community who were, they had no experience with.
So the fear of like what's this going to do, how's it going to change. And I just watched that happen and thought, what is wrong with people like some of my best friends became bilingual speakers and I just knew at that moment that
I wanted to do something to change that if it happened anywhere else and then I went into my undergrad decided to go into teaching.
And I had a job waiting for me back at my high school where I graduated to start our first ESL program there in Columbus Junction, Iowa. So shout out to Mr. Dovadova if he's listening.
He was my high school principal and he had a job waiting for me to come back from University of Iowa and start a program to support these students specifically around language development. And to me that was really just it all started from my personal experience and I never had that experience.
I definitely would not be sitting here with you today. 100% would not. So again, how do we make sure that every student, every teacher, every administrator has the experience of interacting in a really human way with people who are not just like themselves, because without that experience we are doing a huge disservice to our kids.
If they come out of our schools, having never been exposed to diversity, having never made friends from other cultures and other language backgrounds. So for me that was really it. And I will say in program evaluation, whenever I'm doing program evaluation, I have a component that's part of the data collection process and it's called empathy building.
So based on the program we're studying, if we're studying your EL program, if we're studying your special education program, if we're studying your Title I program, everybody who's on the evaluation team needs to do a student shadow and a home visit for a student that's in that population.
Because if you're going to be looking at that data, I want you looking at it with your rose colored glasses off. Like look at that data through the lens of a human being with a real like a name and a story behind it so that we can be better able to see what's in the data and the story that it's telling us.
So it's about those experiences Kelly to your point. If you haven't experienced it, you can't possibly see the world through that lens because you don't have any other, you have no connection and anchoring and grounding to do that.
I just hope we can make sure all of our students graduate our schools with experiences that make sure they have exposure to and opportunities to interact with students from various languages and cultures and be, if possible, bilingual like a lot of other first world countries.
Most all of them.
I will also do a shout out to your to your principal to have that foresight and how wise to have you of all people to come in because now look where it's grown. That really is amazing.
I was a product of grow your own before it was even a thing.
You didn't know that how innovative you all were being at that time.
You talk about you. You talk about the challenge and I heard the privileges that you've had and I think that's a really important thing for any of us that have a microphone or any of us have a platform or anything like that.
I think it's always one just to be very very self aware as much as possible and always lead with the best intention and respect and to be able to be open for you know constructive, you know, feedback and things of that nature because I want people to help me and what
I'm doing to check on iron I need. I want to be better so I always invite those conversations, but I love how you talk about how it's, it's, it's a responsibility that we have it's a moral imperative because if we're not, if we're not saying the thing even though someone
might feel uncomfortable then all I'm doing is perpetuating the problem. Yeah, and therefore I'm becoming part of it. And, and I always try to come at it with with a huge amount of respect and try to be very understanding.
And I think that's where we get to a certain point where we know better, and then we're, we're, you know, we're being defined or we're just not going to do better. That's where I'm, I'm okay to say what I feel from my background and my research and then collectively
build I try to bring that to the forefront to say something about it to speak it because for me it feels like a moral imperative.
And you know that's why again, we would love to have everybody respond to the carrot, right, like, everyone does the right thing because it's the right thing to do and we're all human and we see that so we all just jump in and do what's needed right.
But sometimes, because like I said, lack of exposure lack of understanding fear all those other reasons why maybe folks don't feel compelled to do those things which are the right things for our multilingual learners.
And that's when we have to use the stick and sometimes that stick is federal legislation and you know landmark cases and and again like having worked at a State Department of Education and having then worked in the national policy arena, seeing that sometimes that's
where you have to start like you really do have to come in with a stick to get them to do what it is that they need to do. I mean I always start with a carrot I leave with a carrot.
And then after we end with a stick.
It's not negotiable, it's not negotiable. These kids are in our schools their families are in our communities. It's just not open for debate.
They deserve everything everyone else has access to my, my journey began whenever I had to know that Atkins this amazing high school Spanish teacher, she helped me get into the language side of it.
And the idea of like, and then also I'll do it a shout out to Mr Bruce my drama teachers who gave me confidence whenever I had a really bad stutter, he's not able to speak very well at all to help me with that so I mean, it's really the power of educators can can they
help us in more ways than what we even know at the time until we get to a certain point for sure.
But, but I also know that I come at this from a very different lens right. And so I became bilingual, because of privilege, because of being a you know it wasn't like I came into another country as a multi legal learner at that so I try to always be super sensitive
to that, the cultural proficiency side of that that interests me so much from just my experiences as an educator, from a teacher all the way up to, you know, director level positions, and then going through my, my research, but it was through that I thought it
was, and it kind of clicked for me the reason why this part of culture that was so important is because culture just is not about language or geographical location. I was finding where I wasn't knowing about myself within the LGBTQ plus community, and that
was part of culture, but I knew so much about other cultures and I wasn't learning about, which that isn't all who I am but there were parts of me that I wasn't reflecting upon. Yeah. And so, whenever you're talking about these experiences, and honoring them.
Yes, exactly and honoring that.
I'm really glad that you said that. Thank you, because it's true I think that like that's what all of us are trying to do that's just so simple but so well but honoring who we are, but it's hard right, especially when if we
are, doesn't look like or sound like or feel like who everybody else around us is right it's hard to honor that and, and our kids you know they really do get the wrong message sometimes about whether or not they should honor those parts of themselves that are not exactly
like somebody else's, you know, parts are right so I think that honoring peace and celebrating is the hard part reflecting on them and knowing they're there I think that's the easier part but then really embracing them and celebrating them.
When maybe your whole community isn't right like that's hard for kids, our communities also have to honor and embrace those things about our kids and our families if they're, like I said in Columbus Junction, Iowa.
They did not initially do that, but now go visit Columbus Junction, Iowa, it's over 50% I think they're at 80%.
At this point, how beautiful come from yeah it's beautiful it's absolutely beautiful right and and the community has, it looks like an entirely different community, just as wonderful as when I grew up there.
And really just more enriched like we like I feel like every time I learn from somebody else from their language of their culture, like my life truly feels like it's been enriched.
I can feel it. Yes, absolutely 100%.
Yeah, that's really, there's a cool, cool, how you've been able to impact that community and I'm curious kind of what kind of a recap is from what what relied from there to where you are now and in your current role.
Yeah.
So really just, you know, starting as a classroom teacher as an EL.
Back in the day we call them ESL teachers.
Let me tell you like it was a struggle I mean I was teaching ESL moving from building to building my classroom was in my trunk and I carried in and out of buildings.
And the rooms that I had to work in, guys like I'm telling you like I would write your own curriculum like probably back in the day there was no such thing as EL curriculum.
Exactly. And, and also just buildings didn't have spaces so when I would pull kids out of classrooms, I'd be going to like wherever I could find a space and sometimes it was a closet where they stored all the old AV stuff that wasn't working anymore.
So again like, you know what is that what message is that sending to our kids right but at the same time, we filled that closet with as much love and laughter and just safe space so again you know I think for teachers who are still teaching in
closets and in utility rooms. You know what, it's not about the space. It's about the feelings and the work that's going on in those spaces so the newest buildings, all these wonderful amazing new buildings with all the height and technology.
I wouldn't trade that for what I had back in the day for anything, because, again, we had really wonderful I mean when you're sitting like literally on top of each other.
It's pretty hard not to get close. There wasn't enough room to even have enough seats. I was standing with my corner so they have this little space to sit. But again, it works, you know what it wasn't about the space it was about, again those relationships, the fact that I had the time with them, had a chance to pull them out
so when I was teaching. I was, we were moving around the state and I ended up having to move with my kids, dad, at the time, got on the state patrol and that moved us around the state of Iowa. So I didn't plan on leaving teaching I thought I would teach forever and retire as a
teacher, a classroom teacher. But when we ended up in November having a reassignment I had to get out of my contract and was transplanted somewhere else and you know how hard it is to get a teaching contract in the middle of the school year right they're already all contracted. So I started adjuncting just for something to do for the until contracts came around in May.
And then I fell in love with higher education like absolutely fall in love with it and teacher training and administrator preparation. And so I stayed there for 13 years and got again into a place where there wasn't an ESL endorsement so I said hey why don't you have an ESL endorsement.
And they said, we never had anyone who was interested and nobody to start it. Are you interested in starting it I said absolutely so started the ESL endorsement at a small private institution here in Iowa.
What what's interesting. William Penn University is an auspice Iowa. And before I was at William Penn University they did not have the ESL endorsement.
And so when I started that.
I think I've always been sort of doing things before things were cool, like we did back then this was you guys this was back in your trendsetter.
Or just like really just jumping in without really thinking about it. So we did distance education.
Back before there was even such a thing we use what we call the ICN Iowa had like an Iowa was again fiber optic network. So you know his little microphone sitting on the tables and then the TVs were like connected with this like fiber optics cable right so back before there was like all the internet virtual instruction and we were doing it that way.
But we started our ESL endorsement and it had to be distance because we didn't have enough people who needed it physically there on campus so we wouldn't be able to sustain a program with just the number of folks we had so starting that program again really focusing on the ESL component.
Starting a bilingual scholarship program to bring in students who were bilingual who wouldn't have been able to afford private school right. So starting that program again everywhere I've gone I've tried to find what's missing here for our multilingual learners so then I was.
Fortunate to be able to secure the position at the Iowa Department of Education as the Title III director so I left higher education and went into state policy and I will say something and I don't know this may get me in trouble but you can edit it.
Can't wait.
I went to I went into state policy thinking very altruistically, this is going to be the opportunity to make such a big difference like look at what I'm going to be able to do if I go to the state level right.
Shout out to all my state colleagues out there. It is the hardest work you'll ever do because there are so many parameters to being able to do what you just know when your heart is right for students.
There's a lot of politics going on there's a lot of lobbying there's a lot of there's just a lot of things that are beyond your control that make it really really difficult and it moves so slow.
You can't change done at a state level and then go to the federal level and it's even exponentially slower right so shout out to Secretary Cardona right like I'm absolutely so much because he is working so so so so hard to make the changes that I know are absolutely like
the ones to make those changes so just thinking I was you know I had this opportunity to make this huge difference and you know I did make a difference was it the difference I wanted to or thought I was going to make no but you know I was out of compliance in terms of our title three
monitoring. When I went to the department, we had 13 citations from a previous title three monitoring that had been cleaned up. And my program officer at the time said hey you're supposed to be monitored this year but we're going to give you and I'm pretty sure she
called it this a stay of execution. It was if she didn't say it that way.
And she said so we're not coming until next year which gave me a full year in the new position to sort of get my feet on the ground before the US Department of Education came in and did our next title three monitoring, and they came in, and we got 17 more.
So I had like a total of 30 citations that we had to clean up over the next five years when I was the department so I was there just under six years. And then I had a chance to go and lead the National Clearinghouse.
So directing that work as the director through the contractor who had the contract at the time.
And then that state or federal clearinghouse and fella, so is the federal okay okay so you were in fella.
So I was working for in fella working with in fella and then I went back to UCLA crest to support all the 21. And that's where I am now so it's really just like if you look at kind of like the little breadcrumbs from starting to teach every step of my career has really
led me to sometimes, if not a bigger opportunity to advocate on behalf of multilingual learners, at least a different avenue than I'd had before, but every position I've had has been 100% laser focus on multilingual learners and advocating for this group of
students and families.
And I wouldn't be anything else can imagine.
I, I'm sure, like hearing all that now and working at the state level, of course, which, which we had mentioned in the intro in your bio, but I think.
Let me step back for a second. And I always have these conversations on how, like whenever I first started teaching I mean I'm still super optimistic but I thought everybody was like optimistic I thought everyone was wanting to do that and then you go to a higher level
and you're like, and then I was confused I thought well I aren't we all like, I thought we were all in this thing like I thought we're all rolling in the same direction like aren't you in here for the same passion while I'm and then I started to recognize that like,
you know, the bureaucracy and the red tape and then that's where I started to get more and more in tune with this idea and this feeling that I had of us like we're talking about human beings like the human issue with humanity is not up for debate.
I don't know why we're questioning whether or not they're going to be in this class have access to it. Of course they're going to have access to it. Why is it the question they're not going to have access to it.
I just thought there was a higher level of integrity there than, than there is apart from the logistical barriers that get in the way at, well, LEAs, state, and even the federal levels well it where it is slow.
And so, and of course we get, we're so passionate about what we do that whenever we feel like it's hurting or hindering somebody else.
It's very hard to react with that because right so I think when I got into the State Department, I'm sure I come in and I'm super excited I'm ready to do this right and I'm, we're going to change the world and I'm pretty sure that when I wasn't in the room my colleagues are saying well bless her heart.
I have no idea right and they're, bless her heart. She's going to figure it out sooner than later but we'll just let her be altruistic and optimistic and all those things for now.
So, sorry, go ahead, Kelly, that's gonna say at the same time though whenever you do look back, it probably wasn't as fast or as quick as you want it to do, but oh my goodness for you to be able to go and help develop this whole program at a university to do the state level to help them get back into compliance
I mean you made a huge impact. You know what I'm we wanted it to happen like yesterday.
I don't take personal credit for that work because I mean yes I might have had ideas and yes it might have been something that I was willing to advocate for. But I've always had such a wonderful amazing team of people like I feel like when you want you to do the right thing.
People gravitate towards it so I've always had people who have stepped up and volunteered or, you know, said what can I do to help and so it's really been about again, none of this none of us can do this by ourselves I mean we're one person right but if we're willing
to, you know, spread, spread the word and rally the troops and you it's amazing what you can get done we got so much done when I was at the Department of Education and we, there was legislation that changed the way weighted funding, we had a task force that I was able to lead that came in
with new recommendations for weighted funding as I mentioned all 30 citations that we were out of compliance and remember compliance is the lowest bar. So if you're not even in compliance or not even there yet right so I mean we were at the very, we were below the lowest bar.
In terms of how we were meeting the needs of our kids and their families so you know that work was really impactful and then even like at the university, the program that we started and again shout out to the US Department of Education, the National
Professional Development Program. I cut my teeth on that in 2002 when it first came out for the first time under NCLB, we wrote two proposals hoping to get one at a small private institution and I was thinking we would be lucky if we even got one and we probably wouldn't get one.
We got both. And the programs we started those, the online teacher education program with the ESL endorsement and reading endorsement built in and the special education endorsement as part of it.
It is still up and running, you guys.
They are still cranking out teachers with ESL special education and reading endorsements through that program and it's all online. So again, just thinking about something that's so important to me and I think it's really important to say here is we have to make sure that none of these initiatives
that we are trying to lead become person dependent. When I left the State Department, it's important that that work can carry on without me. When I left Wayne Penn University, it's critical that that work carries on without me.
If you're in a leadership position, find a way to make it an owned experience from as many people as possible because when you leave, you don't want to take all that institutional knowledge with you nor do you want that whole program to just fall apart or disappear or dissipate.
So I guess that would be a piece of advice I would leave to folks who are in leadership positions and privileged enough to have the honor to do the work that we're doing.
Make sure you build the systems because when you leave, you want that to continue. It's all of your love and attention and hard work and you want it to stay long after you. So I feel like a legacy for me. That's what I'm trying to leave behind as a legacy for students and families.
You are.
I hope so. I wake up every day. I wake up every day with that as my goal.
And we will be right back.
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And now back to the show.
Looks like your history is a testament to the fact that you are leaving a legacy. Those things have carried on after you've left.
So that's very cool.
As a business owner, I'm curious, a business owner in a similar space, I'm just curious kind of what you're, you know, on a personal level, what your day to day is like at Alpha 21.
Kind of, I'm sure it's different every day, but kind of generally what does that look like?
And then to the extent that you can speak to the competitiveness of the market, you know, the fact that you guys have been small, but growing, you know, and the space itself is becoming competitive when one organization has been pretty dominant.
Like what does that space look like? What do you see in the language acquisition assessment space? What do you see kind of coming and any unique components of Alpha 21 like separates you guys that you're,
give you an opportunity to share as much as you are comfortable sharing about the space and how you guys are differentiating yourself at Alpha 21.
Yeah. So from my seat at Alpha 21, I definitely can speak to sort of the day to day and some of my background and experiences. And then, I mean, obviously, you know, Catherine Still, who's the executive director.
She'd be another great one. If you want to talk really get deep into the assessment weeds with her. That's her area of expertise. I'm more on the instructional and partnership side of it. But having said that, we're building a system.
So at Alpha 21, I think what's been so amazing again to watch as I, I've been there, like I said, just five years. And when I interviewed for the position, I really interviewed with the passion of if, if we're not going to take this assessment system, we have a screener.
We have a summative, right? At the time, that's what we had. And I was at the State Department. So I've worked at the State Department of Iowa. I was a recipient on the other end of Alpha 21.
So because I was a state that was part of Alpha 21 consortium, I had the experience of being a state recipient of Alpha 21. So when I was interviewing, I just said, you know, if, if you're interested in building out a full system where we're looking at data driven instruction.
So data that actually impacts the day to day instruction, which can't just be summative data, which can't just be screener data. Are you interested in formative assessment? Are you interested in the type of assessment that gives teachers that actionable feedback? Are you interested in professional learning?
So teachers know what to do with the data that they're getting from summative. What do they do with the data they get from the screener? What do they do with formative assessment data? Because I really feel like that's what's missing, right? We have to be able to make it actionable.
If these assessments are just compliance tools, it's a waste of time. If you're not producing data that teachers can do something with or programs can do something with to improve the day to day instruction for students and the outcomes for students.
And so that's how I got hired really with this, this request to come on board and develop what I thought was the missing pieces. And Catherine still has been extremely supportive of allowing us the space to build out the full system.
And I think, again, that's where my day to day is really focused on and very laser focused on what do educators need to make sure that instruction is data driven, English language proficiency standards based focus, and the content teachers have what they need to make content comprehensible.
So every day, that's my job is developing resources, professional learning, and making sure that the system has all those pieces working a well machine so that again where it really matters most where teachers and students are in the presence of content.
That's where we want to be impacting.
Because that's interesting. Yeah, so that's really that's my focus area. Like I said, as far as the assessment, level 21 is doing really amazing work with accessibility.
You know we receive federal funding to build an alternate ELP assessment system for the students with the most significant cognitive disabilities and for the first time last year, we had students who were on alts content assessments who were able to exit EL status, which is a huge civil rights when you guys like I don't know if you're
huge, I mean I can't tell you we've had kids who are stuck in EL programming, because we don't have any assessments that are accessible enough for them to demonstrate their language, and they can't get out of these programs and so for the first time, level 21 has an assessment that is doing that and I think that is a huge win, and I'm so excited.
It's been a small part of that. But yeah, I would definitely invite Catherine still to hop on, and if you want to really talk really deep assessment and what what all the 21 is doing with, you know, again accessibility, and just really thinking about making sure that all students.
Yeah, one I'd love to continue discussion outside of the podcast is, it sounds like your day to day work is very much what has inspired a piece major piece of what we do within our organization as a teacher as a professional development provider I would go in and share, you know, here are the test scores, it was a different assessment but here are the test scores for the students and, you know, there, there are 3.3 and teachers automatically assume I mean, I really don't know what they're doing.
I mean, they really don't know what that even means.
So they would think is like a Lexile or reading level or something like that.
Grade level equivalency and so that was kind of a major piece of the work that we have done is like now we've got the data now what what do we do with this information.
That sounds like that's pretty much your day to day focus so I'd love to kind of look at how we might be able to collaborate with you guys on that too. Exactly, it has to be because you guys like I mean, data is useless if you don't know how to act on it right like what's the point of numbers if you don't know what to do with those numbers
and then, especially like our content teachers so our ELB teachers, you know, they have the data, and it makes sense to them and they know how to act on it for the most part I mean I think they're, you know, they're using data and they're especially around language but
for content teachers who have our English learners a majority of every day, and are responsible for a huge civil rights obligation which is to ensure that these students have access to rigorous grade level content.
And they're eligible without any training to do it. And so, I really, again my focus has been on making sure that our content teachers in addition to our ELB specialist but you know they have specialized training, you know they, they've got it going on over there but our content teachers are struggling
and being expected to move these mountains with no support in many cases they're not getting the right type of training, coming out of institutions of higher education it's just not part of that, like, basic methods right like you're getting your basic, you know methods
to get your endorsement for EL you're not getting anything that's specific to English learners and multilingual learners in your preparation program so focusing on our content teachers, because without that focus, it's going to be really really difficult to really move the needle
in districts where I see bright spots for multilingual learners and they're really performing at high levels and getting out of programs quickly.
And so those districts where their content teachers have been highly trained and are highly skilled in differentiating instruction using formative assessment that has a language focus.
Once it starts really happening in the content classrooms, then you really start to see your multilingual learners test out of programs and and start being able to engage really quickly with the content.
So you start out to content teachers and ELD specialists who are working together collaborating, which is how it has to happen and school leaders who provide the time and space for that, because that is the only way you're going to become a bright spot for multilingual learners.
Amen. Hello, I am.
This is this is a huge, huge thing though that you have to really identify students who are exiting. I know, I mean, out of that, and I don't think people understand that and really like I just circle back around to that because, yeah, whether I mean, if you have a multilingual
learner we know this from our experiences and listeners out there I'm sure that you've experienced this as well or heard the story about it but I mean, how many times have you heard like, I'm not the ELD teacher.
I'm not the special education teacher. And so there's that, but then there's also, again, the assessments that are very difficult for students to exit out of this is a huge civil rights, you know conversation that allow them to be able to exit out of these programs
so they can have more access, because there is the compliance piece of exiting in the federal, you know there's all of that to go through, but then I think it's also that mentality of why it is so important to have English language development or just language
development teachers working in tandem with our content area teachers, because you might be teaching you what which is your content but regardless of still a how are you going to show mastery through language to do this, and whenever we look at all of our
student scores across the board. It's not just your multicultural multilingual student who might not be performing at the level where you desire, it could be another student so I always in this mindset of why don't we bring this to the top, like why don't like why
don't we bring all of us held responsible as students as teachers to know the language within the content to understand what this is. So that way it doesn't become one more thing but it's rather the thing where everyone is getting this but to think is a through line of equity, or
equity for sure, but just multilingual education just as a through line throughout. Yeah, yeah, because we build on each other. Exactly and you made a really good point and I say that and when I'm delivering professional development or I get a chance, you know speak
to my audiences. I always tell them hey you know we're gonna be diving into sort of the focus on academic language and we're really going to sort of dig into language acquisition but I will promise you that no monolingual English speaker was harmed during the making
of this PD nor the implementation of the strategies. In fact, you might find that implementing these strategies that are focused on academic language and making it comprehensible. You're going to support students who also struggle with academic language
but for whatever reason they're also having a really hard time with the science, the language of science, the language of math and so when you think about making content comprehensible. You're not just helping your multilingual learners.
Yes, it's a lifeline for them you have to do it for them but you'll be amazed at how many other students benefit from those strategies and making it more accessible using those other like your visual support and the types of strategies that you're using.
You're going to make this a lot more comprehensive accessible to all students. A thousand, a thousand percent and I can say from my personal experience that learning Spanish helped elevate my English. Yeah, and I was taking the GRE to get into a doctoral program
and came across the word castigate, had never heard or read that word in my entire life and then I was trying to get my context clues in place and I was like I still don't know. I mean I'm trying to get the doctor, I was like I don't know this word and as I'm reading it, it clicks in my head.
And I was like castigar en español and that means like discipline, you know, that makes sense here and so yeah I was in that moment I was using my Spanish that I didn't start to learn until high school. I'm the only bilingual person in my family to help me with my English for a GRE test, you know.
There have been situations in classrooms where, and I've used this example before, students use the word in some Spanish speaking countries, un impermeable, for like a raincoat, but just the fact that you're bringing in the word impermeable, which is now a cognate, you can do some bridge and stuff there, but it also like elevates like, oh what does impermeable mean?
And then even just recently I was working with teachers and we were practicing back and forth, how could you have a type of a translanguaging conversation, like what would that feel like, but trying to put them like through this process.
And one of the things, aha, I made it for PE and then also for science because I thought, you know, get PE, dance, art, you know, not just the four main content areas that we talk about, but then whenever we look at the science part, the student A says this, the student B says they're going back and forth
in English and Spanish and it was real fun.
And of course showing some empathy to that process because there's someone who speaks Spanish and someone who speaks English and then they have to switch roles.
And they're like, huh, but it was showing how the English speaker is still going to pick up on how no one, basically, no one's going to get behind in this process, you might actually learn more.
So to the point, baking soda came up.
Well, baking soda, whenever it was in Spanish, it was bicarbonated sodium. And so whenever they were like, what is, and so one lady, a teacher, it was so fun because she's like, I've never even heard of that before, but I know baking soda.
And I was like, see, even in this moment as professional educators, we still learn new words, but you wouldn't have done that had we not brought in that language, brought in that, you know, had it right there at the table with us.
So to your point, no English only speakers will be harmed in the process of this BDR, of this lesson, of this class.
There's so much research out there around the bilingual brain and just how much more powerful it is than a monolingual brain, just the way the brain is able to process using both sides and those connections that are made. I mean, the brain research is pretty clear. Like kids who have full bilingualism and biliteracy are miles ahead in terms of just their brain capacity.
Through all of this, I think one of the big takeaways that, and I'm taking some notes as I'm hearing this, I think experiences are really, really important.
Because that's us understand something on a whole different level, which therefore brings us to like, once you have the experience, you now have that exposure to this. From that exposure, we can gain some interest in this.
But then it's that final phase of like fascination. And whenever we become fascinated by things like this, I think it just opens up the door for so many more conversations that can help us overcome some of these perceived barriers and challenges to get rid of that fear that we have of the unknown, you know, to kind of like demystify all of that.
And then really to your point about the role of collective impact in what we do, that this cannot be Dr. Lawrence, if she's here, then this will work.
If Kirito comes here and he's like, because once I'm gone, because we're going to cycle through, but they're going to be community leaders who are going to be right here who are not going to be cycling through. They will be here before me, during me, and long after me. And how are we continuing to have those relationships and those conversations to not forget that we are talking about someone's baby and there is a very human component to all of this as we can still achieve what we need to for compliance, accreditation, personalization.
And so we're continuing to do that for compliance, accreditation purposes, as well as learning and education overall, through a very empathetic culturally responsive lens. Yeah.
And you know, one of those roles that we play in leadership is we're building the capacity of everyone around us and of our organizations and our systems to do the work again in the absence of individuals. So that capacity building is key because without that, again, when you leave those things start to extinguish themselves, unfortunately.
And again, I did also in preparing for today, I'm so excited. One, thank you for accepting me on LinkedIn. And I went to go back more and I'm like, I've seen stuff from you, but I didn't realize that we weren't connected on LinkedIn.
I was like, hey, I better make sure we're actually connected. But anyhow, apart from, I'm not always the best on social media platforms, I have to say, you know, I used to be more than I was before. And then you sometimes just get to you're just like, I don't know.
And you've criticized me for not being more active.
It's more of a time thing for me, but also maybe somewhat an age thing. I didn't grow up with it. So I'm well, I mean, I am Gemini, but I wish I had the actual like twin brother who's like, don't be me for social media and I'll be me for this over here.
But going through and just doing more research and reading though I just want to bring it and I'll again I'll have this link in the description for us, but you you had a really great article that you wrote September 20 at the 2024 being true to form in the incredible language
magazine so listeners if you have not delved into the language magazine. Omg, great need to there are always I mean that is, I sometimes I have struggled just sitting down to just like long term just read, I could sit and read this whole entire magazine easily,
there's so much great information. But um, yeah, but I really love that the stuff that you talk about so I'm one of my kind of last questions or kind of topics on talk about the humanizing multi legal students through language practices, and you talk about the
importance of having the students be at the center of these formative assessments and so we were talking about with 21 of those formative assessments, and these are conversations that we have all the time, especially what I'm experiencing the content teacher wants to
help. I rarely, there are times that I find outliers that just they don't want to help. I mean, then there's another root cause for that. But overwhelmingly, the educator wants to help and they don't know what to do because we don't have these
conversations and this article was so fantastic as you discussed the importance of student assets, informative assessment, but also you give for, I believe there are four, yes, four steps to what this is, would you like to share a little bit about the article
because it's just so wonderful and I think it really brings it in to, to our conversation but again humanizing the multi legal student in the classroom, and not just saying, I'm going to, you need to learn English and just do this which we want everyone to be successful
and learn languages, etc. But it's that humanizing piece and your article is just chef's kiss.
Well, thank you. I like I said I think when from that perspective of, again, just making sure that as we're publishing and we're researching and we're writing these articles.
If I'm a classroom teacher and I can't pick this up and then do something because of this, then we miss the mark right again if we have the privilege of being published in Language magazine let's take full advantage of making sure that what's in those
articles is something teachers go, I can do this, I can do this tomorrow like this doesn't seem this hard right so trying to make sure again you break it down for them but around this idea of formative assessment you know we've been doing formative assessment
smarter balance is, you know, has the four same steps but they are focused on the content piece right. So in smarter balance, their framework around content.
I started looking at that and we were thinking about okay well yes we want them to master rigorous grade level content we want them to know along the way if they're making progress towards those content goals towards meeting the milestones that get them to content mastery,
but what's missing here is the language component, what do they need to know be able to do with language to be able to master that grade level content and then in addition to that.
What are students bringing to the learning experience with them that we can leverage in order to help them with the language and the content and so often again we're missing that student asset piece and if we just knew like what motivates them that helps them find the things
that motivate them to read like so again like really knowing what students know and can do, and their hobbies and their motivation and their life experiences. If you know all of that.
You have a much better chance of finding the strategies and finding the sort of through lines for students as they move through language and constant instruction so it starts with knowing the students and if you don't know the students, you're just
something sticks, and that's what we've been doing for a long time so get to know your students and once you do you can be so strategic and targeted, but it starts with knowing the kids and really again getting into what they're bringing in terms of assets because they have a
tremendous number of assets that we are not seeing because we're not asking we're not looking. And because sometimes they're not obvious because they don't have the language necessarily display those assets for us, so we got to get in there and dig around and find out
what's in its treasure chest and then use that as we think about language and constant instruction. So yes, the four steps of formative assessment are critical overlay language on top of that. It's almost magic, put the students at the center, and that's your recipe for success.
It's so good. It really is good and you all you get in the get in the little description section click on the link and read this article, excuse me it's really fantastic. I'm pretty sure you know you admit to easy read.
It's an easy read it's really wonderful.
You had mentioned before whenever you got into education that you had, you know, like there was like a lot like you couldn't get a job until the end of the year and now it's, I mean, you know, I probably depends on where you are but nationally, conversations I hear like, Oh my gosh, you're breathing, you want it.
You've got a high school diploma.
Yeah, come on.
It's, it's, it's really crazy but anyhow to your point though with that comes in this came from a conversation that I was able to have with with a school site principal with the leader and the, the principal and I were kind of just we were debriefing after a day
together and working with educators, all just so amazing you know, but what we, what we found is that because of kind of this issue of not having enough educators.
That then you have people that are just brand new to the pedagogical practice to understand this. So, this is a generalization but it's what was happening here that teachers are just being provided, you know with unit plans and lesson plans.
So that way they just know what to do.
But so at the end of our conversation what we found is that that's what the teachers were wanting like just tell me what to do. I know. And so we were having the conversation around giving you fish versus teaching you to fish.
So I mean it's that fine line of, I can give you four steps right I mean these are great four steps I can give you the textbook I can give you the training I can say here's the strategy here's what you do. Here's even an idea that you could include culture, but part of this is going to be like, you're going to have to go fish.
And, and they don't know what to do and so I do you have any, which of course I have a lot of thoughts but I want to hear from you. What would your advice be for educators who do feel overwhelmed in this because, because I agree with you.
I really feel like the main component that we don't discuss a lot are having the students voice and choice be there having them be part of this conversation because guess what they're going to teach you a whole lot.
So how is culture going to play a role in that I can graphic organize you out, you know to death, and not that you don't I mean of course that's a great tool and a resource we needed, but the graphic organizer was what was going to lead to my language acquisition
and you'd be so successful like I think we've been there by now, but it's like these other like qualitative components of culture and how do you get to know our students.
And I just like to kind of, you know, hand that off to you and say, Do you have any recommendations for teachers that do feel overwhelmed to try to overcome some of these challenges.
So a few things.
If you don't regularly make home visits at home visits to.
I know things have to give trade something out like if you have to give up something to get time to do a home visit talk to your principal and say hey, can I get out of maybe a couple staff things I need to get into my students homes is there some way I can get this time because
home visits will forever change the way you teach, I absolutely guarantee it I promise it, unless you have no heart.
Unless you're missing a vital organ, it cannot help a change your perception because we again get into the homes, and if it's if parents are not comfortable having you in their home, meet them in a common ground at their church at a local YMCA somewhere where you can meet them.
Most of the time they're thrilled to walk into their homes they are like, blown away that you're even willing to come and spend time with them and they cook for you they, they make this huge production you're like don't don't do anything like don't go out of your way
and this is just you're just going to stop in for 30 or 40 minutes, and you're there for two hours, you're having a meal with them there and you know what they're so appreciative of you taking the time, and you learn so much about the students their families
and their dreams and you're, this is the way you're in their space and now they're really comfortable talking about these things versus coming into the school where maybe they don't get into school because they're working second shift and every time you have something for them it's always at night
and they can't come right. So, just get out into the community, spend some time go to if you can, like I said if you're a teacher.
Can you go to some of their cultural events. Can you show up in those things and making those fortunately we underestimate the impact that can actually have academic growth, such an impact such an impact because, and then invite the parents to volunteer if you want
extra hands.
You have a lot of parents who are willing to do things at home maybe they can't come into the school, but you need them to create something or, or cut up something or do something for you parents are, I mean especially our multilingual learner parents a lot of times,
they just can't get into the schools maybe there's not transportation, but invite the parents involve them and engage them and ask them. Here's all the things that I could use help with in the classroom are there any of these things that you want to help with or could help with from home
for example. So again, get into the homes, find out how they can help and want to help and are able to help. And then, ask for the help you need, and I want to just say when it comes to strategies for our teachers.
We have convinced them unintentionally or intentionally I don't know what that they need a toolkit full of 500 things that they're pulling out every day and things and I've got you know and I'm doing all these things and I'm exhausting myself.
You don't need to do that in fact that's not really good practice because kids need pretty cool routines. Find a couple of anchor strategies that work really well for you, and do them over and over and over again, and simplify it like get into a more
minimalistic like mindset when it comes to teaching because our teachers are being loaded with so many things on their plate now it's not just academics. It's social emotional it's trauma it's so many things because they're coming with a lot more needs than we used to see
in our classrooms. And those needs that used to be taken care of by somebody else are now being taken care of by classroom teachers so again huge shout out to our classroom teachers there's a reason why teachers, unfortunately are leaving in droves, it's becoming a very
very very difficult job and in addition to what it's always been a difficult job, but don't lose the love and the passion for the students who, like you said they're counting on you, and every day you have no idea, some students will come back and tell you years later, that you were
the one that you were the difference but for every one student that tells you that there's probably 1000 more that never just found you to tell you, but you are making a huge impact and a huge difference every day and try to, again, take a step back and say okay, how can I make this
a little more manageable so that I can focus on some of the things that matter the most which is getting out into my students homes getting out of the communities, pick a few strategies that work really well for this group of students and for me.
And then, again, just try to pare some things down and ask for help. There's a lot of folks out there that would be willing to come in and volunteer and just take advantage of all hands on deck.
I think that alone you don't you're not you can't do this by yourself, you've got to get some help.
And I think that is the, that, that human side that qualitative piece that's so important. So just to you know echo what you said yes and I and I mean this from the bottom of my heart to every to every teacher that's out there right now.
You're so much and you are a leader, the title doesn't matter you're a leader and you're in right and what you're doing. And, oh gosh I'm just so moved by, by what by what teachers do.
I am fortunate to still teach at, you know, university level and to teach trainings but it's not the same as in the classroom every day and I recognize that I loved it that was my favorite job of all, honestly I love what I do right now but my favorite job was being the classroom
teacher. That's fantastic. But I think, I think that is the human side that we were talking about today you know whenever we can sit down with people and we may not necessarily always speak the same language but we can eat their food like we can be in these
spaces we can we can we can learn and grow together through our own you know culturally proficient journeys, and our why I'm being with them but I, I think whenever we allow that to happen in ourselves and our communities.
I think that's where we can get to that point where you and I were in front of the exhibit hall. Yeah, having these experiences getting to that point where we were both like humanity is not up for debate because once you sit at the table, they're not just a
student anymore or a difficult student that I have to try to you know, do some sheltered instruction or another thing like it becomes that human piece where now that I understand more I can bring it more in collectively, so that way it's not just dependent upon
me but I'm helping them themselves, learn how to fish and other people get to be exposed and build that empathy. So I can I finish with just one really quick story, and this is this is wonderful.
Yes, let's go to your final thoughts. Take us home. Dr. Lawrence.
When you go into a home, and you see that this family is living basically in one bedroom, and there are six children and two adults, and they all share the same bedroom.
And you have one parent that's working an overnight shift and then another parent that works second shift and so you have an older sibling taking care of the younger siblings.
And you sit down with them, and you realize they're not sleeping well, they don't have all their basic needs met. And when they come to school, and you see the child that falls asleep during the day right and and you're thinking oh you know, these parents
and this and that you're making all these judgments. When you go and spend that time with the family.
You have a different sense of why that child is sleeping in class, and you change the way you respond to that right, you change your interactions with that student, because now you know the why you know the deep why for why they're doing what they're doing,
why they're behaving the way they're behaving and you're not going to get that from just meeting the kids at the door. You've got to get out there and really find out like what are their day to day experiences before they come to school and after they leave school,
and you have to change everything about how you will interact with that child.
Do not take relationships for granted.
Not at all, not to your point, don't assume. Think too often we take students actions in classes like a personal upfront like they're doing something to us or against us like sleeping in the classroom it's like, you know disrespecting us versus looking at a broader
understanding why they're doing what they're doing is so important.
Yeah.
Well, I just, I really appreciate you for being here with us today, Dr Lawrence this has been a fantastic conversation.
I want to thank all of our listeners out there, and most, most specifically, all of our educational leaders, everyone that's out there but really really our teachers. Thank you for waking up every day for going in with bright eyes and a full heart to help all these little humans
understand a sense of what we're doing student focused and all that we're doing. And thank you so much to you Dr Lawrence and to other professional educators and researchers out there who help facilitate these conversations that I feel like are very important and needed
as we, as we continue to, to focus on enriching the lives and educational practices of our teachers our educators and most importantly all of our students out there, so thank you for the work that you do I really do appreciate you, and I'm humbled to get to have you as a
part of this conversation. Thank you so much. It's an honor it's an honor to be here and it's an honor to do this work together.
Well, with that I want to say a great big thank you to co host Dr Taylor trouble I always enjoy getting to be with one of my best friends on here so thank you for being here today and producer Michael over hold, you are so wonderful we appreciate all that you do, and
I want to thank you all for being here today and I hope that you all have a great rest of your day wherever you are whatever you're doing know that you're loved, and we send you all of our best.
Adios.
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