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Welcome to Cultural Connections Lab. I'm your host Dr. Kelly Forbes. We are here to talk with educational professionals around the world to impact and influence the education system as we focus on cultural connections and the education of multilingual, diverse students.

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We're excited to have you join us today. We sincerely hope that you enjoy the show.

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EdgeSkills, transforming education, one student at a time.

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Welcome to another podcast episode of Cultural Connections Lab with myself, your host, Dr. Kelly Forbes, and I am excited to be here with two friends from Dual Language Education of New Mexico.

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We have Michael Rodriguez as well as Azul Cortez.

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Michael Rodriguez is the executive director of Dual Language Education of New Mexico.

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For six years, he served as the organization's director of operations, heading up and expanding its program design and leadership development offerings while supporting schools, districts, and state agencies across the country to create quality, sustainable dual language programs.

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During his 15 years as a school administrator, he helped to establish and operate three different dual language programs in the Santa Fe and Albuquerque areas.

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In his current role, Michael leads an experienced team of dual language educator trainers who provide professional development in support of quality instruction for language learners and effective dual language program design.

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Dual Language Education of New Mexico is also host to the country's largest dual language conference annually in New Mexico, which is La Cosecha.

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I've been there and absolutely love that conference.

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It is in my top two. I have to say the Edgesfields Conference has to be in the top two.

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Thank you. Shout out to the sponsors of the podcast.

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We also have with us another great guest, Azul Cortez.

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Azul Cortez, was was the director of Heritage Language at Dual Language Education of New Mexico and with master's degrees in bilingual, secondary and special education as what is passionate about language, community and cultural identity.

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He is currently a doctorate student at the University of New Mexico's Language Literacy and Socio-Cultural Studies with his research focusing on the maintenance and revitalization of the heritage language through cultural identity.

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Azul has worked as a clinical research educator at the University of New Mexico's College of Education, Elementary Education in the area of teacher preparation in the numerous indigenous communities with linguistically and diverse youth through the Bureau of Indian Education and in Mexico.

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He continues to work with grassroots organizations, La Prasita Institute in Albuquerque and Homeboy Industries in East Los Angeles, who dedicate services to adjudicated youths and young adults.

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Current work highlights language maintenance and revitalization efforts through an indigenous lens that centers culture and language as the voice of the community and the land in which they reside.

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I am so excited to have to have you both here. I've seen you before. I've been able to speak with you, Michael, previously at other conferences and then was fortunate enough to hear you both speak as our keynote speakers yesterday.

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Again, the sponsors of the podcast, Edgeskills, at a conference that they have here in Oklahoma. And it was just really fantastic to have you all there. So thank you for being here.

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Thank you for having me.

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It's going to be fantastic. Reading your bios though gets me so excited. This is something I'm incredibly passionate about. And it's interesting because I come at this with a passion that is going to be very different from where you all come from this.

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And so it's exciting. And this is what I love about these cultural connections that we have is that my background, I grew up not knowing any Spanish. My family is English only household.

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But I was fortunate to have a great educator like I was telling you all before in high school, Senora Adkins. And Senora Adkins, if you are listening, shout out to you.

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But it was, you know, those educators in my life that allowed me the opportunity to be passionate and excited about language. And through that, I was able to learn more about culture.

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And then through all of that, I was able to make more connections with friends and then be able to really learn more about this whole world around us through travel, physically traveling to different countries, but also just traveling through the stories of other people.

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And I'm so fortunate that I've been able to become part of this field in education, specifically multilingual and multicultural education, when we can have these conversations. So thank you for being here.

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Thank you.

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I'm excited to be here in the field. So I'm excited just to hear from you all. I want to hear about your journey of who you are and then to where you got today.

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All right. Well, I'll go to get started. Yeah. So I'm a native of New Mexico. I grew up in a small town just outside of the capital, Santa Fe, in Pecos, New Mexico.

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And growing up there, you know, I was part of the majority, right? We had over 90% of our students, our community was Hispanic community in northern New Mexico.

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And my parents came here from my mom from northern New Mexico, from Taos, my dad from West Texas. And, you know, growing up there was a blessing.

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You know, it was a small town. We enjoyed, you know, the best food at our kitchen tables. You never had New Mexico food.

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You know, the red and green chili is a huge staple. And, you know, we enjoyed those types of things. I was a group. We do all the Catholic rituals, you know, as everyone else in the community did.

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Had opportunities to to hunt, to fish, you know, enjoy the enjoy the the mountains and and land. So lots of privilege in terms of the upbringing that I had.

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I'm very fortunate that I didn't have to face any of the things that my parents did along the way. Yeah. You had explained it upon that yesterday as well.

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And, you know, whenever I was in the in the back looking around the faces of the participants hearing this story, I think that they were making a big connection to where you had a very different experience.

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But then you're able to couple that with the experiences of your family and those those experiences that travel through us still and still impact everything that how we view things, how we respond, how we react and maybe even how we listen to the people.

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Yeah. Having those experiences. Yeah. So, you know, the trajectory of my life was completely shaped by the things that my parents did and things my parents didn't do.

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You know, growing up in Taos, my mom grew up in a family that was not affluent. Right now they had to walk to get water to just survive daily, you know, to bring it to the house.

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And my mom grew up in the public school system, which was run by the nuns. And at that time, you know, in the early 50s, Spanish wasn't valued even in northern New Mexico in terms of education system.

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So whenever she or friends would utilize Spanish, you know, they would get hit with the ruler. And that was their signal that, you know, your language is not valued here.

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You know, we don't see any assets out of that language here. You know, if you use it at home, fine. But if you're going to learn, you're going to learn in this American system in the way that we have it structured.

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So, you know, that was her reality. In West Texas, my dad grew up again, again, his when he was two years old, his mother passed away, giving birth to his younger sister.

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And, you know, because of that, you know, his father, you know, that turned to alcohol, he moved away. My dad didn't see him again until he was 15 years old. So they were raised both by their grandmother.

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And, you know, very, very rough life. You know, they they I found out recently that when we had a 75th birthday, that was his first birthday party that he ever had.

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He had never experienced that. You know, there was just, you know, Christmas was just a day where they celebrated, but it wasn't about the materialistic type of things because they didn't have that.

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When he was in his early teens, he had to, you know, lie so that he could work in the fields with his grandmother in the cotton fields to help earn income for the family.

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So he didn't have a father figure, you know, grew up in this extreme poverty. And when his grandmother passed away when he was 15, 16 years old, he ended up moving up to Andrews, Texas with his uncle who, you know, my dad knew that they had an art program in the school.

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So he had an interest there. And that's really what sparked his interest in education and furthering his education. And, you know, lo and behold, that's really what turned his life around.

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So without those role models, he went to school because of art. He ended up going to college in New Mexico, being an arts and education major and later becoming an art and education teacher or an art and Spanish teacher.

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Sorry. That's amazing. Yeah. So it was, you know, just the things that they endured, you know, there's racism at the time, right? They lived through the civil rights movement, the Chicago movement, all these things that really shaped who they were.

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Right. Yeah. So, you know, because of what they lived through, even though my father was a Spanish teacher, I didn't learn Spanish.

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You know, the community, we grew up with Spanish music. We grew up with Spanish all around us with the adults, but we were not passed, you know, that language to us as students growing up, as kids growing up.

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So for me, it wasn't until I got to college that I realized that there was a piece of me that was missing because I was now in a college setting at the University of New Mexico, small fish in a big pond where nobody, you know, the majority didn't look like me anymore.

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And they didn't value the Spanish that I brought from northern New Mexico, which was different from the Spanish of Mexico or other regions.

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Yeah. And, you know, I did a lot of soul searching and realized that that identity was important to me and the language was really the foundation of what I needed to to ground myself in.

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Yeah, definitely. Yeah. You know, you can't separate language and culture. Exactly.

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I mean, they're together. They're connected. You know, they're not able to be separated. You can't learn one without having the other and vice versa.

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But I'm sure that those experiences, obviously, there are implications to all of that that have influenced you in your leadership role now and what you're doing.

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I'm sure that all this comes not just because you want to be an advocate necessarily for other people, which is definitely a huge part of that. But at the same time, though, always like still continuing through your culturally proficient journey, remembering from where you are, your identity.

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Exactly. Still building upon from whenever in college, you were like, there's not missing these. Yes. And we don't want those missing pieces for our students anymore. Exactly.

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Exactly. Right. It's really that identity piece that grounded me. And I think about how many students go through an educational system, even today, where they're not valued for the things that they bring in the culture and the language from their own homes.

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Asura, what about with you? Oh, man, I'm excited. I'm getting chills right now. Just talking about this because I'm so passionate about this. I love the you know, so there's the two pieces, right? What was happening in school and then what was happening at home.

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And with me schooling, we went to a public school. It was called Malabar Elementary School. And for all the people that seen the movie, Blood in Blood Out, there's a big old pine tree that identifies East LA. My grandma lived right behind there.

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And that's where the school's located. At Malabar, that's where my cousins went. My grandma and my aunt were in charge of Folklorico and the cultural events. And because me and my cousin, we were traviesos.

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Right. And, and, you know, I don't know how to say it in English. Yeah, I'm that still. And so, so it's like, you know, I didn't go to Kinder or excuse me, I didn't go to pre-K. I started at Kinder, first grade, and then second grade, I got expelled.

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Right. I got expelled. And we both did, my cousin and I, we both got expelled together. And they put my cousin in another another public school. And I was supposedly the bad one. And because I was a bad one.

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You know, my mom's like, Oh, no, no, you know, we have to save you. Right. And so they put us in a Catholic school. They put me in a Catholic school. And the nuns were gonna. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Straight down. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And so the part with that was that though, at the public school, we all spoke Spanish. Right. And we learned a little bit of English. And I do remember, I still remember, you know, it was the song was,

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Adios, adios, adios hasta mañana. Hello, hello. Excuse me. Goodbye. Goodbye. We'll see you tomorrow. And that was like, Oh, I know English. Right. But we were all in the same boat, like all my classmates, everybody. We were all in the same place. And when the second grade thing happened, it happened the last week of school.

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So then they put me at the local private school, right, the Catholic school. And I didn't speak English. Right. So instead of going to second grade, they, excuse me, instead of going to third grade, they flunked me because I didn't know English. And I started in second grade. And the second grade teacher there, you know, I wasn't allowed to speak. I mean, I couldn't speak Spanish. So every time I spoke Spanish, they, you know, I get in trouble, I get mad at and they will pull my patias, they will pull my sideburns.

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Really? You know, she will pull my sideburns. And, you know, and my sister and I, we just had these conversations just recently. And, you know, we both have like very similar stories. But the big one, and that's the one I shared yesterday was like, I remember, you know, I got in trouble for speaking Spanish. And, you know, she made me stick out my hands and she hit me with the yardstick, right with the big long ruler. And it broke. And she told the principal, you know, Hey,

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you know, you know, little Jose here, he broke the ruler. And they brought in my mom. And me and my mom cannot speak English. We cannot defend ourselves. The principal only spoke English, the secretary only spoke English. And we had to pay like five bucks, five something, four, four something that we didn't have. Right? We didn't have that kind of money back then. And I never grew up thinking we were poor. Nothing like that, right? And, you know, we grew up

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a couple blocks away from the housing projects. My cousin was lived in the housing projects. And that's where we spend all of our time. Later in life, we found out we spend all of our time over there because that's where we ate Fideo and things like that. Never thinking it was like because we didn't have food at the house. Never thought that just this was the time of our life. And this is where our friends are. And this is where we hang out. You know, so that incident happened. And again, you know, just very tough. And then of course, this is where I meet like the

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superheroes in my life, right? Because then in third grade, there was the teacher, her name was Miss Lopez. And she was this beautiful, powerful, bigger than life black woman from Belize. Okay. Okay. So you can imagine I walked in and I was like, Oh, this is gonna be tough. And then she spoke Spanish. Right. And she was this like, again, right, this beautiful black woman with this presence.

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And she's like, you're the way you are. Wow. Not the precuses. Right. And I was like, what? Oh, my God. So the bad part was I ended up losing lunch and P and things like that, that other kids were doing. But she was starting pulling me out to help me with with English. You know, I'm going to fast forward because this happened right right before we shut down and for COVID. This is what happened. I put a post on Facebook. And I said, always thinking about Miss Lopez, my third grade teacher who taught me.

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English who made me believe in myself. I just want to always, you know, remind people that there's teachers out there, yada yada, you know, always be thankful for the teachers that come into your life. Then I get this random little comment, you know, and it says, I think you're talking about my mom. Oh, my God. Right. So and look at the power of this, right? I talked to the I talked to the young lady. And she says, Assul.

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My mom is is is in she's fighting cancer and, you know, she lives out in Phoenix and, you know, she's not doing too well. We're just all getting ready. And I was like, all right. I said, cool. I said, you know, is there a way I can get a hold of her? Can I communicate with her or whatever? So she gives me her phone number. I call her.

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And as soon as she heard my voice, she said, Jose, is that you? Oh, my gosh. And she's like, Oh, my God, Jose. I saw I saw that you got she said I saw that you got your honor. You were an honor student in high school. I saw that you got some, you know, some awards at LMU, my university. And she goes, and then she said, I'm going to go to the university.

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And then I lost track of you. How's your mom? How's your sister? Wow. And this is my third grade teacher who remembered me and remembered my mom and my sister. And it was just it and we cried together. We we we laughed. You know, she asked about some of my classmates. If I knew who were where they were at. Right. I mean, this is my third grade teacher. Imagine how many third graders haven't, you know, passed through her classroom.

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But she remembered me. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so again, just a beautiful, powerful conversation. I was able to tell her, you know, thank you so much for everything. And, you know, all that kind of stuff. And then a couple days later, she she went home. You know, she went home and it's like, wow.

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I'm so glad that you were able to talk to her, though. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that's the beauty. Right. Like, to me, I think of like, that's God. Yeah. If you don't believe in talking about that kind of stuff, that's just like, dude, you know, this is this is the power. And again, you know, for me able, I always want to share that that story because I did have a really bad second grade teacher. But then I had Miss Lopez. Right. And she did. I learned so much English in that one year. It was amazing.

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And then later I started kind of being able to defend myself a little bit more and things like that. And interestingly, it wasn't until eighth grade, I started feeling a little bit more confident in who I was. I was still an F plus student. You know, I got a couple got a couple D's got a couple C's, but, you know, A and P kind of a guy, you know, and, and then when I went into high school, so I went to the, you know, like the best high school in the world is called Cathedral High School in L.A.

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And when I got there, everybody had the same story. We were all the same person. We all had struggles at home. We all had this and that going on. And we were all trying to figure out life together. You know, so for me, then the high school became my brotherhood. It became my area of like, you know, solace. And so when

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in those courses or in high school, we started taking like, you know, all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, A, P Spanish. Oh, man, this is easy. What? I can use my language. I can use this and that. And then our literature teacher, her name was Miss Gerard. She started like feeding us or feeding me anyway.

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Chicano study books. Right. And literature and, you know,

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you know, I'm a little for an I have books. Right. And it's fun. Now I live in Elk Creek. And so I know. But I started learning and my nickname throughout. Like, people call me Indio. Right. And my grandma, I shared yesterday. My grandma was a curandera. Yeah. And so I grew up knowing our traditional stuff.

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You know, I was her helper. I there was a lot of things that we weren't allowed to do.

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Things that we hid cultural stuff that wasn't like in our way just wasn't allowed. And I would always tell my mom, like, like my grandma, I'd be like, but it's out there. Like, people are doing it. Like, we should be proud. We should like share it.

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I'm going to be like, no, this is something that stays in the home. Right. We protect it. And so for me, that piece was was always something like our indigenous stuff that we did at home.

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And then the life that we lived outside of the house. Right. And how do you balance that? And then, you know, you go to you go to undergrad, you know, so here I go to college and all of a sudden it's like, you go to Mecha.

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And like, nah, dude, I know how to do that. Or let me show you this or let me show you that or you know, things I it's like, I kind of had a like, I knew stuff, I guess. Right. And I was on my end, like, I was going to go to college.

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I was on my end, like, I was culturally grounded, but I never knew how to show it. You know, I kind of just hit that from from from the world, I guess. Right. And so that piece I Michael was talking about that identity piece, right. It starts becoming critical.

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And then you start intertwining it with like, okay, you know what, my language is important, my culture is important. And this is who I am. Right. And you start growing into that. Yeah. So, yeah.

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So now so now, where would you say you are from being culturally grounded and not sharing it versus being culturally grounded and sharing it with the world?

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Well, see, well, here's the thing, right. So like, when we work with our youth, right. Um, in in LA, I worked a lot in, I used to volunteer a lot of juvenile halls and work with different youth groups and things like that. But the power is in connecting with our students, right, as a teacher.

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And when you say something in the language, it has that much more power. Yes, it does. You know what I mean? Yeah. And all of a sudden, like even like in New Mexico, right, we have different tribes, different communities.

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And when we go into, you know, the prison system, when you talk to someone in the language, their eyes get big, they smile, they're like, there's hope, there's everything else that's there, just because you use that.

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And, and, and so that's the connection piece, right. And that's what keeps us grounded. Um, because life is tough. But that grounding piece, right, is our culture and our language. And like with our youth, I always tell them, I said, look, once we're grounded, then we grow.

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And, you know, the stronger we're grounded, you know, the higher we can reach for them stars, you know,

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Yeah, I think it's, I think it's interesting because whenever we talk about using, like, so you speak a language that someone else speaks, if they don't speak English, for example, and how their eyes light up and it's the, you said hope, right.

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And I think oftentimes that we miss the point that whenever that happens, it's not just about we're doing a translation or interpretation. It's about there's an emotion and a feeling that changes inside of you whenever you have that.

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That's that connection. And it's way deeper than just trying to communicate with somebody. I mean, they felt something I think is so powerful that people do dissertations over and that's hope. I think the power of hope. And so if we were able to use language in such a way to give hope to our teachers, hope to our stakeholders, and most specifically hope to our students, that breaks down a lot of barriers right there.

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Right. And that hope as educators, you know, it's about understanding your students understanding that, you know, there's more than just getting through the curriculum. There's, there's, you know, building people up.

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I give the example yesterday of, you know, I had the opportunity to sit on a Department of Education, US Department of Education roundtable session last year. And at the table, one of my colleagues who runs Montessori dual language indigenous program, you know, the question came up of, you know, how do we determine what student success is?

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And, you know, she didn't go to we want to have the highest test scores. You know, we want to have the best curriculums. It's, we want to build good people out of our students. And that's, that's the bottom line, right? It's, it's not up to us to determine for these students, what that success is or what path they take.

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But it's, it's about that hope that there is more and that I am important and through education being seen. And that goes true for teachers too. Exactly. You know, they need that support in order to be reflective in order to be able to support students to do the best that they can.

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Well, many of the educators that we have today, specifically in the field of bilingual, dual language, multilingual education, a lot of those educators and even yesterday, speaking with some of them asking the questions, how many of you have felt this or seen this or experienced this and raising their hands?

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And so I said, principals, directors, coordinators that are in this room to look around because we also have experienced things like this. So as we talk about trying to, you know, create this sense of belonging and all these, you know, cultural components and being reflective and responsive and proficient that we're talking about for students, we got to do it with our staff as well.

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Because you all just told stories that you went through some very traumatic experiences for no good reason because you were just being you. Right. And so that is just, it just blows my mind. But I think that's where we get so passionate about what we do in dual language education specifically, because we know that not only is it an asset, but it's.

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This is the time that we get to celebrate people. And I think whenever we focus on, you know, like whenever I was a principal, for example, all the testing, of course, we focused on academics and I told the staff, I was like, I'm going to I know I have the title as the principal.

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I'm just a teacher facilitator doing this, but I'm just with you. Like, I'll make those hard decisions at the end. And if it's if it messes up, it's my fault. All those things. But if I look like the principal and act like the principal, slap me because I'm not doing a good job.

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I want to be with you and do this all the time. So hold me accountable. But our focus was on that. It was on the kids, their well-being, being happy, getting to be themselves, sharing their cultures, their identity.

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And I said, and all the test stuff will come organically at the end. That was not the focus at all. And guess what? We were the highest performing elementary school in the whole area.

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And they learned it in two languages. They were passing the reading test and everything else. And I said, guess what? Of course, we are educators. So, yeah, we focused on standards and language standards and all those things.

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But that was secondary to the number one thing. And the number one thing was that child. Absolutely. Them being happy and being a good person, good citizen in this society that we're in.

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That's right. And it's looking at like what you're saying, right? It's that acids-based lens, right? And how do we make sure that we remind ourselves to use it or that we stay on that lens, right?

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You know, Michael saying like, just we want good people, right? That's the goal, right? That's the human part. And like I remember in one of the schools that I used to work at, we were doing this project and we were bringing experts, right?

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And they brought in this person who was like the big time expert on papel picado. And the person had all these metal stamps, all these professional, like a whole layout of things.

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And he was showing us how to grab the little stamp and hit certain areas. And then he was showing us, right? Cool. Product, beautiful. Cool. So then we do it after school.

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After school, here comes the parents. Okay. So here's la señora Lupe. And she grabs a ficha, a bottle cap, right? Bends it, bites it, turns it and uses that.

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And then she grabs some more, starts doing all kinds of things. And what she created was just like bam. And so the expert, he's just like laughing and he was like, see, that's what it's about, right? Like, look at this.

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And I was making my stuff and it was all legit, you know, artwork stuff, whatever. And then she's just doing what she does. You know what I mean? And my students were just like, dude, your mom is awesome.

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And so these are assets. Who would have thought? I didn't even think to ask or anything like that. But then later it was just like, you know what? Yeah, let's start bringing in some of the fam to the classroom and let's look at what they have to offer. And it was just amazing. And it was such a beautiful, strong year.

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And then of course growing and me learning as a teacher, you know, to be able to tap into those resources, you know, but it's there. I think we have so many opportunities to really build upon the assets of our students and families. And we just got to create the space for that.

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We have to be intentional though about it. Our leaders are often just so busy and overwhelmed with a million other things that unfortunately it becomes like this like secondhand conversation on the side, sometimes if you get to have it. And I just am just so passionate that if we start there, if that's what we're always beginning, then everything else will filter through that more accordingly and appropriately.

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But we have got to focus on the assets of our students and our families and not feel like we I don't need to tell you. I mean, we might need to explain like the education system might look differently and things of that. But like, I don't need to tell you to help to be engaged. I need to sit back and listen. How can you be engaged? How do you want to be engaged? What are ways that we can participate in this together? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. That's one of the things is that a lot of times those assets within the community get overlooked. Right. There's there's opportunities to to do this.

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Same types of things that to enhance your curriculum by bringing in people from the community that can demonstrate what you can pay someone to come in and do as well. Right. And they do it just as well or better. And as we work with the language programs all around the country, we're constantly reminding administrators, teachers, teacher leaders that your dual language program for it to be sustainable.

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It has to be based on the community, the needs of the community, the beliefs, the the values of the community, because you're going to have teachers that come and go. You're going to have administrators that come and go. But your community is always going to be the community. Exactly.

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And if you're not building your program around what's important to them, you know, it's it's it's a disservice. And that's again, something that's being done to the community rather than with and by and for the exactly.

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So as a teacher, then your job is how do I unpack the standards? How do I unpack the curriculum so that it reflects? Yes. My classroom. Right. And here's the tricky part. My classroom today, I might have it unlock and I might, you know, oh, this is perfect this year. And then next year, I got to do it again.

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You can't copy and paste that. I did that last year. Well, guess what? This is this year. Different kids here. Right. Exactly. And anyone who's been a teacher knows that your kids are not going to look the same from year to year.

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And again, it's about the stories that they bring in those assets that that they have. You know, how do we make sure that that we're not just doing a basic cookie cutter type of thing and hoping that kids understand it? We need to really understand our students and build from that.

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And now back to the show.

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So I want to get into dual language questions specifically, but just before we do that, I know that there are many educators out there who are working in schools.

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For example, there's one school that I'm thinking of specifically in my head, but I know many other schools like this.

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About 50 percent of the population, not about, it's 50, 51 percent of the school population are bilingual students.

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The overwhelming majority, apart from maybe three, it's English and Spanish, are the two languages.

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So whenever you're in a situation like that and you are in a monolingual school system, there's no dual language programming, nothing.

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But yet it's like I was talking to one administrator and I said, no matter how you cut it or you look at it or whatever, you put a name on it.

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This is a bilingual dual language school because you have bilingual dual language students. That's what it is.

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Right. And so I know you don't have, quote unquote, the program.

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And so we have conversations around, of course, always considering the cultural proficient lens through everything that we do.

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But how do we incorporate some sheltered instruction practices along with dual language education practices?

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Teachers can still create space for translanguaging, for example, to happen, even if they're not bilingual or multilingual themselves.

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We can create spaces, though, for students to be in charge of doing all of this.

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So we get to have conversations around that. But I want to hear from you all. Right.

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What would you say to that teacher who has the newcomer student or the student who is building upon their proficiency levels in more than one language?

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What what do they need to know from hearing your stories?

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Because we're in a different age now where we may not always have the physical ruler out, which just is so painful for me to even consider.

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And I hate that anyone would ever have to experience any ridicule like that.

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But we have metaphorical rulers. We're having all the time sometimes.

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But for the teacher that is just really wanting to know, how do I help the student?

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But I don't have experience in this and I'm not in a setting that has a lot of other bilingual educators.

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What would you recommend for for them to do?

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What would you have needed if you were, you know, Michael and Jose in that classroom now and you don't speak, you know,

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that's what you do, you know, Jose, like Lopez was saying and helping you. What did you what what did you need?

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And what can they maybe do to make that child feel better and have that sense of belonging while still gaining academic knowledge that they need?

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Yeah, for me, I think number one and number two, number one is you tap into the linguistic repertoire of our students, of that child.

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Right. I was muffled. I was silenced. I didn't count. Right.

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I didn't want to go to school. School was the worst thing ever because I couldn't express myself.

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I couldn't anything. Imagine in one setting where, you know, I don't want to say I was a cool little kid, but, you know,

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we were always like, oh, yeah, yeah, you know, happy and everything like that.

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I could express myself. I was like pretty good at kickball.

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You know, this is, you know, first grade, second grade stuff.

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And then all of a sudden, a new setting and I'm nobody and I'm not there. Right.

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So I can't do anything. Right. So how or what our linguistic repertoire looks like, we want to tap into that as educators.

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Right. And then as a teacher now in the classroom, you're the certified one.

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You went to the school stuff and everything. Be intentional about it. Right.

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So now you you have a particular purpose.

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If my purpose is I'm going to teach you English or my purpose is I'm going to help you develop your academic Spanish.

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I'm going to use what you just shared with me. Right.

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Your linguistic repertoire, your experiences, I'm tapping into your cultural, linguistic, you know,

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richness that you bring into the classroom.

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I'm going to use that to leverage this intentional piece of whatever it is we're trying to learn.

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You know, I think we have to create the space of law to happen. Exactly.

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And a lot of teachers sometimes feel nervous because they say, well, I don't I don't speak the other language, so I don't know what to do.

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Yeah. Some teachers, though, are just so into like, sure, like do do anything in the language, but I don't know how to grade it or look at it.

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And so I feel like sometimes sometimes they there needs to be some some help for the educator to be able to, you know,

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you know, do what they're supposed to be doing as well and not just like they still have to put in the work.

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You can't just say, hey, all I did in the language and then throw it to the side and not really look at it.

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Right. Right. Right.

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I think that same like reflective feedback like that that child deserves as well.

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But I think it's just important to to remind the educators and the leaders out there listening right now is that you changed from one room to another

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and you had belonging and then you didn't belong. Right.

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All of a sudden, you were othered and you were pushed out.

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And all we needed to know is that even though I might speak only English and it might be the dominant language overall, it's not a better language.

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Right. Right. And, you know, I need to use both languages.

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Use whatever language you have. Right.

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Education is a team sport. We can't we can't assume that teachers are in these isolated boxes in the classrooms and, you know,

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and hope the best for those kids that year.

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You know, those kids and we hear it, you know, lots of times now that teachers.

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Don't look at them as, you know, just just their kids, the whole all the kids within the school are their kids and they're responsible for,

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you know, creating good people, helping to build good people from all these students.

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So teachers, you know, they can't feel we can't put them in situations where they're feeling isolated.

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We need to make sure that they have those tools. Right.

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If we want them to really get the most out of students, we need to make sure that we're giving them the most in terms of professional development and,

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you know, resources and and even the right types of curriculum. Right.

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And and yes, there has to be, you know, certain things that everybody's doing the same way within districts.

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But where is their flexibility to make sure that they're able to to meet the needs of those individual students?

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That's that's a critical piece in, you know, creating an education for students and experience that really is going to help them to to see that they are not just receiving information.

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Right. There's opportunities to use content and to use the second language that they're learning in authentic ways.

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Yes. Right. There's there's specifically and deliberately being set up in the classroom that way.

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And that doesn't just happen by chance or by accident. Right. Teachers need to understand how to do that.

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Because in dual language programs, you know, even in 9010 dual language program where kindergarten, 90 percent of the day is in Spanish,

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you know, there's still all this other influence outside the school with English because of the communities we live in.

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So that 90 percent of a six hour day is still only a fraction of the exposure and language use the students are engaged in.

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So we need to make sure that, you know, every one of those minutes that we're spending in the content areas, in the language,

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the target language in our programs is deliberately planned for and teachers need support in order to be able to do that.

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And they need that opportunity to collaborate. Yes, because there's lots of ideas out there.

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We in districts that we work in, you know, we help them to see that you're not alone in this.

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There's you know, you're in Washington state, there's a district in Illinois going through the same thing.

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But they've come up with these resources and they come up with these strategies or systems that are helping them to be successful.

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They made a commitment to it. Exactly. Very intentional. Yeah.

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And I think, you know, fortunately with technology nowadays, an educator who is monolingual is able to to utilize and leverage technology in such a way that could encourage the students to still use their entire linguistic repertoire and translanguaging practices,

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cross-linguistic awareness, middle-linguistic awareness, things of that nature.

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But then I and then using that technology to, you know, maybe help them translate to kind of understand.

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But going through that process as we're acquiring content and language at the same time, in my research and some of my experiences,

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one of the best things that I've ever seen is whenever the teacher will allow themselves to also be the language learner, if they will learn the language alongside with the student,

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all those names that maybe a general education teacher doesn't know, like cross-linguistic awareness,

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middle-linguistic awareness, translanguaging. Sure, those are great things, but the teacher that doesn't like, what are you talking about? If you can just be a language learner alongside them,

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all those things will start happening automatically. Right. Right. Bridging components.

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The teacher will say, oh, we say it like this, like my grandmother's house, but you say la casa de mi abuela so you don't have the apostrophe.

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So what that means is and they can start making those connections.

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So then it starts to build. So I just say, hey, one, have grace and compassion for yourself, have grace and compassion for your students and learn alongside them.

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Learn the language with them. And that in and of itself will allow you to know.

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I mean, I'm not going to spend an hour to teach you how to use a graphic organizer.

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Once you're having that, once you know that student individually and you're learning alongside with them, you can figure out how to use the graphic organizer.

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Right. Like that's not what I'm here to teach you about.

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But again, it comes into that culture part that comes on top. And this is where I think, you know, leading into the dual language education,

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the three pillars that we know from the guiding principles of dual language education, but that third pillar of socio-cultural competence,

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the educator allowing themself to be part of that process with the child, I think is a great step and a great, you know,

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crack and all this for us to be able to get in deeper and understand the socio-cultural competence piece.

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But enough about hearing from me. We want to hear about you. Like, why is that third pillar?

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First of all, let's remind all the listeners of the three pillars. Right.

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So bilingualism and by literacy, grade level, high academic grade level achievement. Right.

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In both languages. That's a big, big part. Right. Both languages.

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Get it again. Because academic Spanish, man.

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But the third part and the one that I'm most passionate about from my research is it's that socio-cultural competence piece.

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And I think that's where whenever I see educators come in that have great teaching practices,

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great pedagogical practices, a good understanding.

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And then they still don't see the results and they don't know why. Yeah. Right.

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And I'm like, I think and I don't know this for sure, but I feel like what I'm seeing mostly is that it's that third pillar.

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It's the cultural piece, the understanding, not just the cultural, but specifically that socio-cultural component.

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And that is missing so much that it's like that's the glue that is bringing everything else together. Right.

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That's that humanistic piece of what we do. Right. Yeah.

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It's the building of the good people in that. Boom.

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You know, there's vulnerable, there's power in teachers being vulnerable with students and showing them that,

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you know, there are different ways to say these words, you know, there's different ways for us to, you know, different customs that we have.

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And it's not mine is better than yours or, you know, there's any kind of status to it.

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It's celebrating the fact that there's diversity and, you know, we come together and we're stronger for it.

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Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah.

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For me, I think of like, this is the importance of identity.

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And as a teacher, right, you want to know your students story.

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And then you want to, you know, so it's like, what is your story and then what is our story?

271
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And how are we going to build from that? You know, I, you know, working.

272
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I guess one of the stories that like me personally, I've been I've been deported twice.

273
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OK, OK. I was born in the US.

274
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I have my my, you know, I have my birth certificate and I've been deported.

275
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Yeah, twice. Officially twice. Yes.

276
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And one time, you know, yeah, it's I think about I say I share that because it's just when I bring that up,

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all of a sudden, my students are like, oh, you know what happened or, hey, you know this?

278
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And then we start hearing their stories, you know, but we start making those connections.

279
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Right. And we start hearing those stories and then we understand.

280
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And like for us, for me, I guess, when a lot of parents are like,

281
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but we want them to learn English as soon as possible.

282
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And so then it's like, yeah, but we do that with building on the Spanish the students already have,

283
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,360
you know, the foundations that the other language foundations they already have.

284
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:32,120
What's confusing, right, because it's counterintuitive because on one hand, I'm the parent.

285
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,240
I went to school and I got my hand slapped.

286
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And now you're telling me that you're saying I want you to be speaking Spanish.

287
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And so I think that there are there are some parents that they get confused about that.

288
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:48,360
And then, unfortunately, and this is my opinion, is that in society, whenever they don't feel like it is valued,

289
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that's why they're wanting their kids to feel valued.

290
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:57,480
So then they start, you know, maybe unconsciously even supporting destructive practices,

291
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:02,720
not realizing that this is a this is a benefit.

292
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:06,840
This is an asset. We want you to be bilingual or multilingual.

293
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:11,200
I mean, not only are there health benefits to this, but I mean, you're going to get you can get better jobs.

294
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:15,320
Like, and I always tell people, I've never gone to a job and I'm like, you know, we love to hire you, but you're bilingual.

295
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,080
You know, like that's never been like that's why you're not going to get the job.

296
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:25,760
Like, that's not it. But then but but for me, and this is where I love these conversations and I love to be vulnerable in this as well.

297
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:29,280
And we know this. We've had these conversations in our field before.

298
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:39,240
It's and I and I share this all the time and I try and I and I try to I try to do my work justice in this because why are you celebrating me

299
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:43,160
as the guy from Tulsa, Oklahoma, with blonde hair and blue eyes for being bilingual?

300
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:48,400
And then you're trying to tell that kid over there that you need to just learn English.

301
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,840
That is so unfair. And it's so backwards to me.

302
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,960
And I can't comprehend it, but I hear and I see it.

303
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:59,360
And so I try to be when the word of the Spanish that oh no, guess what?

304
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,640
Oh, wow. And see, well, and then we're expected.

305
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,240
It should be a matter of fact. Right.

306
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:09,080
And I just like and you know, we don't even like English is in the official language of the nation.

307
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,120
Right. You know what I mean? I'm like, if you really want to be here, like, do you speak Cherokee?

308
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,840
You know what I mean? Like, you know, like those were like the languages.

309
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,160
So but at least I can stand here and say, you know,

310
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,000
some people were just like, oh, I'm like, well, that's it.

311
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,880
Sometimes I'm like, you'd be so proud of me because I told the kids in the hallway

312
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,200
that they better be speaking English. And I looked, I said, what?

313
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,160
Like, you're so kind and I really appreciate you.

314
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:31,400
But why do you think I'd be proud of that?

315
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,400
Like, you kind of know for what I stand and like and how I speak and things of that nature.

316
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,520
And she said, oh, I just thought that you would you'd be proud.

317
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,000
And so it was an opportunity for a conversation. Right.

318
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,720
I could have taken it down a whole other road and then, you know, made her feel,

319
00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:48,600
you know, bad or upset or whatever. But we got to have a conversation about that.

320
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:50,160
But so many people just don't see it.

321
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:54,200
And that's why I feel like the role of dual language education, one,

322
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,360
it's the highest level of gifted and talented studies that you could, you know,

323
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,520
that you could have for for for for our children.

324
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:05,080
But that's why it's so important for us to keep continuing to promote dual language education.

325
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,480
So that way, whenever we do become these adults, that we have that level of social

326
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,800
cultural competence and that we can say, no, I celebrate it.

327
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,080
I see the benefits of it.

328
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,920
Let's do more of this as opposed to being subtractive and deficit based.

329
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,000
Absolutely. You don't know unless you're in the program and understand this.

330
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,160
Right. Yeah. And the crazy part is that we have over 40 years of research that has show

331
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:27,080
this is the best way for students to learn and maintain their identity.

332
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:31,280
And they are which, you know, for me, I learned in college is critical.

333
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:36,520
Right. That that was something that really grounded me the rest of my life and my rest of my career.

334
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,200
So we need to we need to follow research.

335
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,560
Right. Collier and Thomas have been telling us this for many years.

336
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,680
It's many studies have been replicated even on this podcast.

337
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,920
Exactly. Yeah.

338
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,040
And the new book is coming out. Yeah.

339
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:51,600
And so, yeah.

340
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,840
So they'll be re-launching a new book early 2025.

341
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:59,040
Oh, excellent. It's a second edition of their first book, English Learners in the Trans-World World.

342
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:00,840
Yep. I have all their books. Yes. Yeah.

343
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,400
So this is about all your books. Yeah.

344
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,520
We'll have the link to the books also in the description.

345
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,000
Listeners. Yeah. You can get access to all this.

346
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,240
So it's a new version of that first book.

347
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:14,320
It's going to be more of a collaborative version where people can utilize it in professional development,

348
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,000
you know, PLCs, those types of things.

349
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,920
And, you know, it's it's really about.

350
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:27,680
Like I said before, you know, it is a team sport and people need to understand that all these students in the school are our students.

351
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:33,640
And the best way to do that is to make sure that the knowledge and the information that they have is the same.

352
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:39,440
And everybody's speaking about all of our students in the same terms and how we can support them.

353
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:46,600
Yeah. One one last thing I want to I want to make sure to touch on a little bit heavy,

354
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:48,360
but you guys are just such good experts in this.

355
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:59,560
And I feel like it's going to be important to have a space to pause and to hear from you all and to allow our listeners to hear.

356
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:06,560
And was mentioned yesterday and I'm so thankful that we had a free conference that no one had to pay for.

357
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:10,160
But people could come and could hear a message.

358
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:17,880
And so but I want to expand upon the role that gentrification plays in dual language programming.

359
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:26,960
And I feel like oftentimes it's not discussed maybe as much as I think it should be for real good understanding.

360
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:35,600
But there are some areas of the country that are just really killing it with dual language education and doing great things and kind of understand this overall.

361
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,720
And then there are other areas of the country that aren't doing anything.

362
00:52:38,720 --> 00:52:44,400
And then there are some areas that are trying to get into it and trying to understand more and leaders and districts.

363
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,360
I know that I'm thinking of some person in my head that trying to understand more.

364
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,840
They know that they need it. And so we're implementing it.

365
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:55,680
Things are happening, but we're still learning and growing ourselves as we're in that process.

366
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,800
And so I try to I don't try.

367
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:06,520
We have really direct conversations around gentrification and what that could look like.

368
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:11,840
And so I'm glad that we get to have those talks, but they're just so few and far between.

369
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:16,960
So I really want to be able to allow a space right now for you two to discuss one.

370
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,840
What is it for people that maybe don't necessarily understand what that is?

371
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:27,800
And then two, what role does it play and what are its implications and how should educators best respond?

372
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:33,600
So, you know, gentrification of dual language programs is kind of what you see in terms of the gentrification of neighborhoods.

373
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:40,360
Right. There's this gem that people start to realize, you know, this is this is a great place to be.

374
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:49,200
And in dual language programs, which, you know, have been designed to support our English learners as a matter of equity to the curriculum,

375
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:55,640
you know, the equity in the access to curriculum through the research that Collier and Thomas and others have done.

376
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,760
There's benefits for all students to learn in this way. Right.

377
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:05,840
Special education students, Collier and Thomas have research from North Carolina,

378
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:11,200
where African-American students were involved in two to three grade levels ahead of their model peers. Right. Right.

379
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:16,480
Why would we not want that for all of our students? Right. That's that's my question all the time.

380
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,800
So, like you said, it is it is an enrichment of education.

381
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:34,200
And when people see these gems, they take these programs or there have been instances where the programs that have been designed to provide this equity in access to our curriculum and our and our system for English learners.

382
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:38,560
And it's been, you know, in some ways hijacked.

383
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:54,800
And the original intent and purpose and the population that was being served has in some cases gotten pushed out, you know, and through their systems, through through squeaky wheels, through things like that.

384
00:54:54,800 --> 00:55:03,400
Those kids sometimes are not able to access it in the way that they originally did because they're trying to make more space.

385
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:10,480
Obviously, in two way programs, you have a mix of native English speakers, native target language or Spanish speakers.

386
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:17,200
And together, you know, there's power in them learning from each other and being the being the experts in each of those languages.

387
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:27,600
But lots of times we see that students are native English or native Spanish speakers and they get pushed out to make that additional space.

388
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:37,160
And and then over time, it happens more and more. And the focus of what this original program was gets shifted.

389
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:44,760
And, you know, it really becomes a situation where it's a disservice to to the students that we're trying to support the most.

390
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,880
Right. So there's that focus shift. Right. And Michael, yesterday, share that story about.

391
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:57,000
Yeah, we we do site visits. We do retreats and site visits with with districts and schools to help them start programs.

392
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:06,920
There was a district that had brought us in to to work with a number of their schools in, you know, shoring up and really recommitting to the ideals of the language programs.

393
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:15,000
We had just finished the morning session of classroom observations and kids were lining up in different classrooms to go to lunch.

394
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:22,040
I was walking with a teacher, district administrator and teachers class towards the living room.

395
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:27,120
And as we were going to the office and as we were walking by, you know, we were talking in Spanish.

396
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:31,800
Her kids were talking in Spanish and we passed by another classroom.

397
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:40,360
You know, teachers said hi to each other and kid at the front of the line in the other class standing at the doorway told his teacher, maestro,

398
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:45,120
you're talking Spanish and saying, why is that?

399
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,520
I can't be in a class like that. He's an English only class.

400
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:55,920
And, you know, that's a prime example of the fact that there was not space for this kid who, you know.

401
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:04,320
Identity, you know, begging for opportunities to be himself and express himself in the best way he can, not having access.

402
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:14,360
So that led to some good conversations once we got back to the office about, you know, they're a great district doing all the right things, systems in place,

403
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:19,200
you know, even you go in as far as doing their own research on effectiveness of their program.

404
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:29,680
But there's these instances where we still have students that fall through the cracks and we need to make sure that we're that we're not letting that happen.

405
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:33,760
So, no, and sometimes, you know, they fall through the cracks and sometimes it's intentional.

406
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:38,320
And, you know, sometimes they say, no, well, this is this is our quota.

407
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:43,760
And they look at it like that. Right. They said, well, we have X amount of Brown students.

408
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:47,080
We have X amount of white students. And that's what it is.

409
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:50,760
And it's kind of like, you know, the kids aren't quotas. Right. Right.

410
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:54,000
But they talk like that. And that's why I say, yeah, no. And that's the thing.

411
00:57:54,000 --> 00:58:01,760
And so they are looking just at numbers. And so just off the bat, just like that, it's already not the focus. Right. Right.

412
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:07,600
It's already gone. That's why it's important for the superintendent to be 100 percent committed to this in the exact same way.

413
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:11,040
And they don't have to necessarily be the expert. I mean, we can't be experts in everything.

414
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:19,640
But I have to make sure that I have a good enough understanding and that I have hired the right people in place and the right processes are in place to not allow for this to happen.

415
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:25,560
And that's the conversation. Of course, there's a lot of buildup before you just you don't just walk in one July and say, you know, we'll do this year.

416
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:30,000
Let's do dual language. Like, that's not like that. There's planning that goes into all of this.

417
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:37,840
But you get to a point, though, where hopefully you have involved your stakeholders in your community and that you've really focused on the collective impact.

418
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:42,080
Right. Because we I'm a prime example.

419
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:46,360
I mean, looking even at LinkedIn, you can look at LinkedIn, anyone's LinkedIn.

420
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,880
We don't have the same job for 10, 15, 20 years. We're moving around.

421
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:54,600
Things are happening. But whenever you have collective impact, that that's a thing.

422
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:58,080
They've been there for 50 years and they're not going anywhere.

423
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:02,680
That leader and the Latino agency here in Oklahoma, like they're going to be here for a long time.

424
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:07,800
They're not going anywhere. These are the these are the leaders in our communities that we they need to be.

425
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:09,200
Ever engaged and involved in this.

426
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:16,560
So whenever we are transitioning in and out of our professional organizations, that collective impact, though, still stays right there where we left.

427
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,760
Yeah. So it becomes that vehicle for equity. Right.

428
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:25,000
And it is social justice. Yes. Right. And.

429
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:34,960
Yeah. You know, it's we always look at districts who are having those conversations as opportunities to move in the right direction.

430
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:41,960
You know, sometimes they're not sure, you know, do we even have the ability to become a full language program?

431
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:48,800
So sometimes they bring us in just to evaluate the programs that they currently have, whether it's ESL, pull out or transitional.

432
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:57,840
And just to get a sense of where they're at, you know, because a lot of times they do have assets in place in terms of human and other resources.

433
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:03,000
So, you know, just starting to have those conversations is is great to see.

434
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:09,560
You know, we we obviously support dual language program development, but we're also advocates.

435
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:16,400
You know, we do lots of work to just have conversations with people about, yeah, you know, you're right.

436
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:22,000
You know, you either don't have you have kids from many different languages and, you know,

437
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:27,800
trans languaging might be the best thing for you, but strategies in the instruction in English,

438
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:31,320
while you're valuing all these different languages, it may be another way to do it.

439
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:36,760
But, you know, it's about making sure that people have that asset lens.

440
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:45,800
Excuse me. And. You know, in that just just giving people the opportunity to see that no matter what type of program they have,

441
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:57,480
again, they have to make the most of it and identity is that that grounding factor that that really helps people to understand what direction they can and should go in with their students.

442
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:02,200
We've got to create a holistic ecosystem. Exactly. For sure.

443
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:08,040
But it is always the number one focus whenever we are having the serious conversation about.

444
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:12,760
So if you really are going to implement a dual language program, just know that as you go through this,

445
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:16,280
the first people that get into that program are the ones that need it.

446
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:23,240
And the second people that I get in is if there's space, if there is right, if sure you got 10 spaces open and you got sure.

447
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:30,680
No big deal. But if you got 10 spaces open and you got 20 more that are already the students that need this service,

448
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:37,480
they're the ones that get in first. And that's really our focus is first and foremost, we do this for the benefit of English learners.

449
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:45,480
And I'm just so fortunate that I've been able to have the experience that I had from a privileged standpoint to be able to do this.

450
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:54,840
But I to learn language and culture and my salsa partner, Marty, she's from Colombia, but she goes, you know,

451
01:01:54,840 --> 01:02:01,960
Kili, you are adopted for us here in Colombia. And whenever she said that, other people have said that.

452
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:07,720
Time out. I told Michael, dude, his accent, he's like Colombian.

453
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,120
Oh, that's what I said.

454
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:19,240
OK, Marty, I'm sorry. But I didn't take that lightly.

455
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:23,720
I mean, it actually was Marty and I were like, hey, Mr.

456
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:25,400
Agua, because we're like, oh, I'm about to chigar.

457
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:34,280
You know, like, you know, and so she said in that moment, I was just like, that's what I was like, because I take it real, you know, like really close to my heart.

458
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:35,640
Yeah. Someone to say that, you know.

459
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:41,400
And so I just think that's the beauty of these cultural connections and the availability.

460
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:48,920
There are priorities within dual language education, but whenever we are able to create these holistic ecosystems and we're able to to build these bridges together,

461
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:55,320
to have someone like Marty, who has this amazing story coming from Colombia to the United States,

462
01:02:55,320 --> 01:03:00,880
and she was 18 years old to where she cut my hair one day, just clips and hit.

463
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,400
So it's like you get the clips in the back and the hips in the front.

464
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:09,560
So it's dancing and everything. And that's and then we became social partners and started dancing.

465
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,600
And she always says that there's she's very conscious.

466
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:16,360
It says there's some power whenever you're coming and you and I are doing this together.

467
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:27,560
Me from Colombia, looking like I'm from Colombia and you like just like, you know, like the blonde hair, the blue eyes, the white skin.

468
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:31,240
But she said, but it's just so great because it's like it shows like this connection between us.

469
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:36,680
And she says there's some different power and sometimes you saying something versus me saying something.

470
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:42,440
But then also as a gay man, whenever she says something on my behalf as well, sometimes people hear that even differently.

471
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:47,720
So there's just all these different, you know, not even just geographical cultures, this culture within culture in general.

472
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:52,440
But I think those connections and whenever we can we can make those connections, it's so it's so beautiful.

473
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:53,640
And that's a big power.

474
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaking of connections, you know, it is the power of language that brought you together.

475
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,000
That was it.

476
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:04,360
Those are connections that we need to value.

477
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:04,840
Right.

478
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,800
And then there's even thing, you know, like in that language, it comes from the heart.

479
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:08,520
Yeah.

480
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:17,240
Like whenever, I mean, for example, if you're going to tell someone that you love them, you typically say it in the language that has the deepest emotional connection to.

481
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:18,200
Tiene mas pasion.

482
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:20,200
Tiene mas pasion, si.

483
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:20,520
Right.

484
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:26,920
And I can communicate with her and she can understand me in a different way even and vice versa.

485
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:31,560
And sometimes we'll find each other even calling each other just to be like, I just, you know, I just need to explain this to you.

486
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:37,000
Para que me entienda, porque, you know, it's like it's just different than, you know, saying it in the other language.

487
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:38,920
And so it's just that deeper connection.

488
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:46,600
And if we know again, we have health benefits, emotional benefits, career benefits to all of this.

489
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,880
I don't necessarily know why we don't talk about it more and do more.

490
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:58,760
But I'm thankful to have people like you in the field here as advocates, you know, out there spreading this amazing message.

491
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:06,280
And most specifically across the nation, but most specifically, I really appreciate for the work that you did here yesterday in Oklahoma.

492
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:07,240
And we're glad to do it.

493
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:18,360
You know, like I said, we know that a lot of the people that we met with yesterday don't have dual language programs, but they have these students in their classrooms and they're looking for opportunities.

494
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:22,200
They're looking for other ways to to enhance whatever it is that they are able to do.

495
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:32,200
Well, I mean, this in all sincerity, we I'm fortunate to to still be a part of and having been the president of the Oklahoma Association for Binding with Education and affiliate of NAMBE.

496
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:36,760
We also have the Multicultural Education Institute from the University of Central Oklahoma.

497
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:44,040
And then we have some other just great people here in the state who are trying to, you know, discuss and spread this message even more.

498
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:48,960
And so to have you all come in and continue that momentum with us, it's greatly appreciated.

499
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:54,000
And I'm hopeful that in Oklahoma, we'll start being one of the leading dual language states.

500
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,040
We would love to see that as well.

501
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:59,920
I mean, because we do have Cherokee English dual language school.

502
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:01,680
Yeah, we learned a little bit about that yesterday.

503
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,960
Yeah, I was wondering if you had whenever you had visited the museum.

504
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:08,880
And so the point is, it's growing and there are conversations around it.

505
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:18,640
And I'm so excited about that, but having people like you here present and then sharing this in front of other leaders that we have in the state, I think will make it even deeper impact.

506
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:21,480
So I want to say thank you for that.

507
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:22,560
You're welcome. Thank you.

508
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:29,000
Definitely. As we wrap up right now, are there any closing words or thoughts that you would like to to share?

509
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:35,520
You know, like not any I guess shouldn't say like final thoughts because they're just final, but some closing words or reflection or anything.

510
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:43,800
Before we get to closing words, I just wanted to also mention that Duolanguage Education of New Mexico this year, we're hosting our 30th annual La Cosecha Conference.

511
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:45,800
In Centro Federeño.

512
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:50,720
If you've never been to La Cosecha, it really is a place to go.

513
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:56,160
When I was an administrator, you know, that was the place that I would go every November to get refreshed myself, right.

514
01:06:56,160 --> 01:07:02,360
And to see that that me and our staff, we're not alone in this in this journey.

515
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:05,240
There's lots of knowledge out there.

516
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:06,840
This year we had a record number of submissions.

517
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:15,280
We had four hundred and seventy five people that submitted to take the two hundred and eighty one presentation slots that we have.

518
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:26,480
So it's a it's a interesting, very rigorous process that our team goes through to make sure that we really find the best presentations for people to experience.

519
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:30,800
We do give extra points when it's done in a language other than English.

520
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:44,120
And we give extra points when it's done by a teacher because we want that perspective to be front and center, because that's, you know, really where, you know, the work is happening.

521
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:48,600
Exactly. Right. That's that you can get closer to the students than than that.

522
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:52,360
And this year, La Cosecha will be in Santa Fe, New Mexico. We alternate every year.

523
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:56,400
So we have the 13th and the 16th. So November 13th through 16th.

524
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:58,240
Market calendars. I would love to see.

525
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:03,200
And the one thing that I say, like to all of our partners and to everybody else in the struggle.

526
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:10,560
Right. This is our time to celebrate, to get rejuvenated and to network and grow.

527
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:12,640
Porque todos somos familia.

528
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:14,720
And we are together in this way.

529
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:18,200
And so a lot of times for me, I'm just networking.

530
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:22,200
Hey, you need to meet someone. So you need to meet because the same thing is happening.

531
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:25,160
And all of a sudden lunch becomes one of the most powerful things.

532
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:28,560
Exactly. We always feed. We always provide lunch.

533
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:30,960
But that's where we see the power of our conference.

534
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,280
Not me anyway. Right. Right. I mean, don't get me wrong.

535
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:36,520
The the the sessions are tremendous all the time. Right.

536
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:39,600
And I'm always falling in love with all these teachers that are doing amazing things.

537
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:43,120
And it's like, wow, check this out. Oh, my God. Look at this. Right.

538
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:50,000
But the in between the networking, you know, creating family, because like Michael said earlier, right,

539
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:53,080
this is a team sport, you know, we're all in it together.

540
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:55,320
Every day we are more together.

541
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:56,920
Together we can change the world.

542
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:58,920
Yes, yes, exactly.

543
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:02,760
Man, I am so I just I want to go back to New Mexico with you.

544
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:04,960
Oh, this is fantastic.

545
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:06,240
Thanks for being here.

546
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:08,560
Thanks for inviting us. Yeah, thank you for having us.

547
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:14,400
Like you you've really enriched this space and this will be long lasting.

548
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:16,280
And so you've left a great way.

549
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:18,720
So I appreciate it. A great a great mark for sure.

550
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:22,360
Well, hey, one last thing, though, where can we find information

551
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:24,680
about dual language education in New Mexico?

552
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:28,960
Yeah. So online you can find our website at DLENM,

553
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:32,560
dual language education, New Mexico, dot org DLENM dot org.

554
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:38,000
If you're interested in the conference, Lacosecha conference dot org is where you can find more information.

555
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:40,520
Early board early board pricing is already closed.

556
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:45,000
We are looking at about 4000 people in Santa Fe this year.

557
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,800
So as I was saying, it is a great place to network.

558
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:52,040
And we have top researchers, you know, experts.

559
01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:54,440
We have district leaders. We have teachers.

560
01:09:54,440 --> 01:09:57,400
We have everyone that is focused.

561
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:01,320
I mean, I'm going to be with you.

562
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:06,800
Everyone focused on dual language or supporting multilingual learners in creative,

563
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:08,800
innovative ways is going to be there.

564
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:10,680
Well, it's a it's a fantastic conference.

565
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:12,080
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

566
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:15,400
And, you know, we love partnering with you all.

567
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:18,560
Our organization, we've been around for 21 years officially,

568
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:20,400
and we're all about building bridges.

569
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:24,960
Right. We we go out and do work, but we know we're not the only people that do this work.

570
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:28,920
And we don't see the other service providers as competitors.

571
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:31,640
You know, their family, their people supporting the cause.

572
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:36,560
This is this is a movement and it can't happen without the support of all of us.

573
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:41,360
Yeah. And one of the things we're proud of is we're building an indigenous language strand.

574
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:47,880
Yeah. So we are hearing about, you know, our native languages, our heritage languages.

575
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:50,960
And again, you know, creating that network to build.

576
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:55,280
And then we celebrate with a powwow that Friday, you know,

577
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:59,600
with with a lot of our local tribes coming together and celebrating with that powwow.

578
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:03,200
Yeah. So full day Indigenous Language Institute happens during the conference.

579
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:07,960
Full day parents to full day Student Leadership Institute for middle and high school students.

580
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:13,000
Yeah. You know, we try and fit as much as we can in that week to to to really serve our communities.

581
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:17,360
It's three days, but it's really like the whole week.

582
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:20,320
It's truly fantastic. And if you haven't been before, you need to go.

583
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:25,800
And no matter what year you're listening to this podcast, perhaps just click on the website

584
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:28,880
because we have the conference or you all have the conference every single year.

585
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:30,760
Yes. Again, in Albuquerque and in Santa Fe.

586
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:33,120
And it flips back and forth every other year.

587
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:38,240
So please come, come see us at La Cosecha and you will not be disappointed.

588
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:40,800
And come say hi to us. You know, we'd love to meet you.

589
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:43,440
Well, man, gracias por todo.

590
01:11:43,440 --> 01:11:45,320
Si, gracias. De verdad.

591
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:49,520
And I'm just so I'm so thankful I got to sit in on this master class with you two today.

592
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:52,680
Gracias, gracias. We'll have the information in our description.

593
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:56,520
Listeners, thank you for being with us and we'll catch you next time.

594
01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:58,200
So gracias por todo. Que le vaya bien.

595
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,680
And we'll see you soon. All right.

596
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:23,760
Adios. Bye bye.

597
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:25,280
Thank you for joining us today.

598
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:32,280
Don't forget to like, follow and subscribe. Adios.