Welcome to Cultural Connections Lab. I'm your host Dr. Kelly Forbes. We are here to talk with educational professionals around the world to impact and influence the education system as we focus on cultural connections and the education of multilingual, diverse students.
We're excited to have you join us today. We sincerely hope that you enjoy the show.
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And welcome to another podcast of Cultural Connections Lab with myself, your host, Dr. Kelly Forbes. I am so excited to be here today with four special guests from the University of Central Oklahoma in Edmond, Oklahoma. And I just have to let all of our listeners know that in all transparency, this is my very first semester with the honor and the privilege of being an adjunct professor.
And I could not have been more fortunate than to be with four amazing, fabulous human beings and educators here in Oklahoma, but then also abroad as well.
So I wanted to share some time with some fellow colleagues and some master's level students today to discuss things about multicultural education, multilingualism, and assessment and what that looks like in our classrooms.
And so before we start though, if I can just have you all introduce yourselves, you amazing human beings, who do we have right here?
Konnichiwa. Hello, my name is Aya Iwamoto and I'm in the UCO bilingual education master program. I'm from Japan and Kyoto. And I've been here about two years in Oklahoma. So I'm so glad to be here today.
Thank you so much. And who do we have next?
Hi, I'm Genevieve Simmons. I am from Edmond, Oklahoma. I am currently a substitute teacher within the Edmond Public School District.
Excellent. And after her.
Hello, my name is Julie Muir. And I'm a English language development teacher at a middle school, Mary Goldar Ross. I've been there a couple years now.
Wonderful. And last but not least.
Hello, my name is Hyekyung Yoon and I've been teaching English to high school students in South Korea for about more than 10 years.
And I thought it's about time to revamp my skills as a teacher and have a more multicultural and multilingualistic experience.
So I'm pursuing a bilingual education degree with this amazing teacher, faculties and friends.
Well, I'm truly so excited to have you all here. And listeners, just so you know, I was letting them know how how much fun it would be to have a really good robust and academic conversation centered around what we're discussing in our classes right now.
And as we've been having these conversations throughout this semester, I know that for myself, I have learned so much from all of you. And I mean that sincerely.
And anyone that's out there listening who's listened to any of the episodes before know that I always refer back to my very first class of students, the newcomer students at TAF Middle School and Oklahoma City Public Schools, sixth through eighth grade.
There were seven countries and eight languages represented and I always talk about how they were some of the best professors that I've ever had in my life, but I didn't know that at the time.
And then I fast forward in my very first time to get to be an adjunct professor. I'm truly just privileged and honored to get to be with all of you.
And it's truly a humbling experience. And I just want to say thank you first and foremost for all the things that you've taught me through this process as well.
But thank you for being here to share all of your insight and all of your information because I know I have been wowed by so many stories from you all.
So before we jump into some of the questions, I just want to ask a general question and anyone can intercept this question if they want.
But what are some of the most exciting things that you have experienced in the field of multilingual education and some of the things that you were not necessarily aware of in multilingual education,
whether that be a professional experience or even a personal experience?
And that could pertain to anything that we perceive in the pre-K through 12 education system, the university sector, or again, even in our own personal lives when it comes to being multilingual or multicultural.
Anything interesting that you all have experienced, really exciting or something out of the unknown?
I think for me, I brought my fifth grader daughter with me and I had a lot of opportunities to volunteer in her school.
And I was really amazed to find out how much involvement the parents have in this school system.
Unlike in Korea, in Korea it's kind of like a taboo, almost like a taboo for a parent to participate because they respect so much of the teacher authority.
But here it's very different. The teachers are so friendly. Whenever I volunteer, every teacher comes up to me and says, I appreciate what you do. Thank you so much.
And I get to see what educational experiences my daughter has. And it's been amazing.
I take advantage of every opportunity I have because I'm a student as well, so I spent more time than when I was in South Korea.
So that's something that I've noticed, like really different from my culture.
I think that's a really interesting component because here in the United States, we have requirements, legal requirements and obligations for not just parental involvement, but for parental engagement.
And I think a lot of times that whenever we come from maybe a monolingual, monocultural background,
and we're trying to make sure that we're following these regulations, that we're trying to have our parents involved, that we don't always necessarily have that level of cultural proficiency to understand that maybe from where you come in your home country, that's not what it looks like.
And so was there ever a conversation that anyone had with you to explain it, or did you just understand that, oh, I guess they just want me to be really involved, so I'll find ways to be involved?
Or what was that conversation like? First time I was really nervous about it.
The first volunteer I did was the Popsicle Day, and I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do.
I asked my daughter's tutor what I was supposed to do and stuff, and she kind of walked me through the procedure, and the school staff at the front desk in the school, there was this really nice lady, and she kind of explained where I should go and what to do.
And the parent-teacher association staff, they were really amazing, really kind of explained what I should do. There was this person that's a really good organizer, and she kind of like, locates everybody, like what to do, and everyone should know what to do.
Wonderful. I'm glad that it's been a smooth and good experience.
But I think what I'm hearing though is that you appreciate and enjoy being able to be engaged and involved and see what's happening.
So I think it's something that I can, you know, persuade my colleagues to incorporate some of this stuff, like part of that, you know, scheme to my goal.
I think that's one of the beautiful things about all of us being able to learn from each other, but also that cultural component, because whenever we have all those different points of views and cultural backgrounds, I think that it's like the same iron sharpens iron, and we learn more from each other, and we can be better by learning what we do the same, but also differently in our respective countries and even school districts and school sites.
That's really wonderful. Thank you for sharing that.
Now I know that you, for example, Julie, are currently a teacher, as you stated in your introduction.
So hearing this story right here, how has that translated at all into what your lived experiences are as an educator serving parents who come from diverse cultural backgrounds?
Yeah, no, absolutely. I think it's really interesting to hear that perspective, because it is really difficult, I think, for me, like, especially my first year teaching, and even this year, just making those connections with the parents, I found little ways here and there, but it is very difficult when there's a language barrier.
So, yeah, I think it's just something that is very important in building relationships with not only my students, but with the parents, but having those close ties with those parents help just keep, you know, whether it be discipline issues or their grades, it just really helps keep everyone on the same page and up to speed on what they're doing.
So yeah, it was a little bit of a culture shock, I think, for me too, because that was kind of a new situation, like having to do that.
Yeah, and I think and so that culture shock comes on both sides.
Sometimes it really does. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I mean, to be honest, I think a lot of people, and even including myself, I can even, I can watch videos, watch documentaries, hear stories from other people, and you know that school districts and school systems are different and vary in different countries, for example, right?
But it's not really until you're there sometimes and you experience it, or you are an educator who for the maybe for the first time, because some of our educators out there have never had a student that spoke a language other than English.
And so I think that there is that culture shock. So I think making sure that we have that open dialogue and conversation and finding ways to break down those barriers so we don't have language barriers, that we have an interpreter, that we have a translator.
Anything else that can help facilitate that communication helps ensure that there's a mutual understanding, but at the same time, both people are included and involved.
I will definitely say that the parents are, the parents I have had are extremely interested in, in their child's education, they're very much wanting their English to improve, it's very important to them.
So with, I mean, with that being said alone, I know that the support is there, it's just making those connections for sure. Do you do you have any experiences you'd like to share?
So, similar to Hye-kyung, where she, well, different. She is from Korea, but I did actually do two years teaching English in Korea myself.
And so I have different experiences from her teaching there. One big one I was picking up from just listening to both Julie and Hye-kyung was I didn't deal with parents at all.
When I was teaching, there was only one time when I ever like actually had a conversation with a parent of one of my students and it was when they were taking the student out of the school because they were moving to another country.
And this was in my first semester there. So that's at the end of the semester, end of the school year actually, but the parent came up to me and was thanking me for taking the time to help their daughter with their English.
And they were saying we could tell how much her English had improved over like, and her confidence had improved. And that was the first time I got any kind of feedback from either the school or the parent, anything.
And so for me that was like a, it was a big eye opener because I had heard that parents, at least from what I had heard from the other foreign teachers is that parents are really involved and want to, you know, know how their students are doing in classes.
I had not had any parents at all say anything to me. I hadn't heard anything until it was the first time I'd ever had any kind of feedback. And it really stuck with me that I even like immediately went down to my desk and like wrote down everything the mom had said because I wanted to keep that memory and use that as encouragement for helping my students that I had.
Now, Hyuk-kyung, in your experiences, I mean, as a teacher, did you ever talk to the parents or was it maybe a different situation because you were maybe teaching in a different type of a language program perhaps coming from the United States to South Korea? Can you expand upon that?
I think it's probably because like the native English teachers are excluded from the responsibility of us, like certain responsibilities that the Korean teachers have.
For one, Korean teachers, like even in high school and middle schools, there is this system like a homeroom based. So like every teacher should have a parent teacher conference, like at least twice a year.
So that's where the parents get to meet them, again, officially, and the schools hold this introductory lecture, like course, or like the open house night where the parents are invited to the school and get to learn about the curriculum and the school policy.
And like after that, usually, like for me, I usually met with my parents, my students' parents, because I know they are coming mainly for the purpose of their children.
They really like to meet their children's homeroom teacher, not the school policy itself.
So that's like, yeah, and like whenever like the teacher parent conference is whenever like there's an behavior issue or like the occasion where the occasion occurs.
But like officially, that's like twice a year, like in the States. So yeah, they set up the meeting time and then.
There was there. So I did experience with the open. We referred it as open classes, and that's when parents had the opportunity to come to the school during the school day and observe how the class is being taught to see like how their students are doing.
And it was I particularly had a couple of parents come for my first and second graders, which is super young to start learning English, which in Korea, it's the correct age is like third grade, like official grade to learn English is third grade.
But they would come and ask questions about like during the open class, like as to what was happening. And I had to provide less than the lesson plan for them to have access to to see exactly like everything that they're supposed to do during that class.
Wow. Wow. It's very, very different setups. Even from my own experience, there was, you know, and from my teaching experiences, my multilingual students, their parents were always engaged, would always come to anything that we asked them to come to.
And it was great to sit in and have some really good conversations with them as well. But a school where I was principal before we had thirty three thousand volunteer hours.
And that was just above and beyond like other types of engagement that we had. So it's really just this huge dynamic between maybe for sure twice a year, which some schools, I think here potentially maybe really only meet twice a year potentially for parent teacher conferences.
Maybe you have a title one night, maybe a title three night, things of that nature. But but definitely a lot of similarities and differences, though, between between cultures, which to me is just fascinating. I love that. Now, you you you have some unique experiences that I'm sure you mind sharing your experience.
And then also I wanted to add the unique system in Japan, the school system, as Hakeon and Genevieve said, that Korean has the parents visiting like school visiting day that we do have parents who visit school to see what students doing, how they live the school life.
But we have also that opposite program says that homeroom teacher will visit the students house to talk about with parents. And then.
Well, this is I think the aim to be like focusing to see what kind of lifestyle they have and environment. But considering about the multicultural and multi language speaking student, we don't really have, I will say because the ratio is super low because we have a one race in Japan.
But I was thinking that if we have these programs here, like system here, that would be more easier because the teacher can see the student like lifestyle, like everyday life at home environment.
And then just to see like what kind of background they have. And then I thought that's interesting, but it's hard for the teachers to visit all the students house.
I think it's really funny that you mentioned that because I was just having a conversation with a teacher, not just the other day about that.
How she'd been teaching for like 30 years or something like crazy insane. And she was talking about how she used to make like those house visits like it was required at her school.
So like they would do so many visits and just like just to go out and visit with the parents. So I think that's really interesting.
I know that I had a few times whenever I would go and get to hang out. Yeah, the apartment complex where some of the students would live and a lot of them, you know, they would, you know, they would find these communal areas and all in and live together. Right.
And so it was really fun to get to go just play basketball sometimes with the kids and have a little cookout or something.
But just to learn more about them, who they are and their culture and all the assets that they bring as they enrich our classrooms.
Well, thank you all for sharing that and listeners, just so you know, we've been having a whole lot of conversation centered around multilingualism, multiculturalism and what this looks like in the field of assessment and evaluation and bilingual English language development classrooms.
And so I think it's great that we've already kind of jumped off a little bit talking from from a teacher side, parent sides and how we get to know our students. We have our parents engaged, but all of that plays a role into the academic success of our students.
And, and again, listeners, it's been really fantastic to work with these masters level graduate students as they are creating placement assessments, administering that assessment, making an evaluation from that, creating an English learner profile for students.
Also been reviewing some issues that we have in the field of assessment and evaluation and how that impacts and affects the academic success of our language learners and our multicultural students.
But then also creating a profile of what what can happen next for for these students. And so really digging deep into all of this and also later on, we'll be looking at other types of assessments and then doing a critique of that as well.
So we've had a lot of conversations around assessment and evaluation and what that looks like and what that means. And I'm so excited because many of our listeners can apply what we discussed in many different arenas, maybe sometimes outside of the field of education.
So shout out to my mom, because I know that she's going to be listening to this podcast as well, but she always tries to take parts of it.
Yes. Hey, mom. But she really likes to take parts of the conversation and apply it to where she would work in the plasma field, for example.
And so she's made a whole lot of connections. So I'm really anxious to maybe even hear from some listeners about some connections that they've made in the school system and maybe even outside of the school system.
But with that, I really want to start off with with the question of considering our multilingual multicultural students who have English language acquisition plans and they have received this English language acquisition plan or some sort of a plan for language acquisition purposes based off of a formal assessment of language proficiency.
Here in Oklahoma, we use the WIDA access test. Texas, for example, has TELPAS. Other states have their own assessments.
But WIDA is, I believe, in around 43 of the states, 44, I believe, maybe of the states, 43, 44 of those states here in the nation.
So my question I want to pose to you all is how, from your experiences, both personally and professionally, and even having a child in the U.S. education system right now in fifth grade, I mean, how can educators effectively integrate those formal assessments of language proficiency, like WIDA, for example, into teaching strategies to really help our students have higher outcomes overall?
And what role do you think, if any, thinking about that English language acquisition plan and the use of their native language, how does that impact instruction in the classroom?
Well, I think it's really huge. I mean, you cannot effectively set goals as an educator for your students if you do not have something that guides you to at least get close to that.
We've been talking about placement tests a lot, and WIDA is a really great starting point for language proficiency assessment.
So it just helps the educator, you know, it helps them be able to just see where the student is across all the domains, the language domains, reading, writing, listening, speaking.
And in addition to that, you know, educators will be more knowledgeable on assessment, their assessment framework so that they know how to set that up.
If they know how to properly make assessments, if they know how to do all of that and they have a good background frame, then they can set their student up for success.
I think that's really important.
Not specifically about where you work, but just in general from your overall teaching experiences, do you recognize that all teachers know what the English language acquisition plan is and what those language proficiency standards are?
Or do you find that it's mostly just the English language development teacher that knows that?
Yeah, I do. I do think it's primarily the English language development teacher and even the department head.
I mean, we try to as a group, like get everyone on board, but no, a majority of my teachers, I think, at my school is, I mean, they're all still learning.
We have a lot of new teachers, a lot of the turnover, you know, is sometimes very great and that impacts so much as well.
So, no, I can't say that we're not that our instructional coaches aren't doing, you know, what they're supposed to do.
They absolutely are.
It's just really hard as an educator, I think, when you're coming in, you're new to everything, you're trying to get used to your own role.
And then they're like, oh, by the way, we have 62% English language learners in our class.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's absolutely something that I think is a little bit of a shock.
But all you can do, because I remember my first year, is just take bits and pieces and digest it like slowly.
Yeah, I think everyone's doing the best that they can.
Well, I think it's important for us to remember that no one is a native born speaker of academic language, right?
And so we're considering all, you know, because it's always like we're going to focus on basically our content, our content standards.
And then we have that this little bubble at the bottom of a page that might give us some insight into what we can do to help differentiate instruction for our language learner.
Whenever really that bubbles should be at the top, that should be the lens that we're already going through because we're all acquiring language.
And even to the idea of translanguaging, we even translanguage between Shakespearean English into modern English.
And then you can get some Shakespearean raps or things like that right now.
But you've been mixing and playing with language in such a way.
And the more that we know about that process and what that looks like, especially for acquisition for multilingual students,
I think that it just really helps elevate the academic experience, the rigor and the academic language that's utilized in our content areas apart from just a language development program.
Is anyone else? You can just popcorn out. Yeah.
So kind of touching on what Julie was saying about how mostly it'll be the ELD teachers or above them that will know of those ELAP, as we were saying,
plans and that content being available coming from a substitute teacher perspective.
I've said I've taught in elementary, middle school and high school at all levels.
And not once has any teacher ever left a note saying in my class, I have an EL learner not once ever been made aware to me as a substitute.
Because I am in this program, I have been able to pick up on that just from observing like the students in the classes.
But I think it would be good for those teachers to make a note for substitutes that that way if they are helping because on the elementary level in particular,
whether where the substitutes are more involved with actually teaching, whereas more so in the high school, they're a little bit more hands off having that awareness.
So that way the substitute can take that into account when they're trying to teach the material, when they're trying to help the students, if the students have questions.
That being able to have that information, but I know what make leaps and bounds and what the substitute is able to do, because you'll even have substitutes who do long term supposition.
Right. I know for a fact that still didn't have that information, even as a long term substitute.
That information was still not given.
And see, and that impacts, you know, your understanding, even if even a substitute may not be able to delve deep into this and may not understand all of it.
But at the same time, just to be aware. And I think awareness is is definitely key. Right.
You for for for linguistic purposes, but as well as the cultural perspective that plays a role in that.
Well, and for like how to use it effectively for like the education side, having the information will also give the teacher a little bit more confidence, like the substitute more confidence when helping the students because they're like, I'm teaching them this, but why aren't they getting it?
Why are they just staring at me? And then instead of writing a bad note, well, this student was not doing the work.
The student was doing this instead. Oh, well, I now know that that oh, well, it's because they need me to break this down even further to them or having just the modifications that they might need in the class available just somewhere on the on the desk or in the lesson in the substitute plans would be huge.
Whenever we know better, we can do better.
Yes, go ahead. I want to share my own experience that as a person who experienced like take hopeful studying for a helpful test.
So back in Japan, I was taking the pre hopeful class that basically does studying for the hopeful test to get a high score.
But actually, that the result specifically on the reading comprehension that influenced my L1 reading comprehension as well.
The how the taking the test strategy. Yeah. And it's super like important to know that actually that I know how to take business. I know how it goes.
So it affects my like lower your effective filter. Yes.
Because you understand how it looks and what the process is your effective filters, therefore lowered. Right. Yes. And I can actually have a confidence on the test and during the test say, okay, I'm not I don't have to worry about what's the next like what is coming for the next.
And then also that I have a lot of students visiting school here that shows that they can understand they can read they can speak, but they don't know how to take a test.
So I think it's really important to not teach teach teach, but let them help that like maybe practice few times before the test or like give them like helpful strategy.
And you were practicing in Japanese. Yes. For the for the for the test. Right. And so that that's such a genius and obvious idea, but I haven't myself necessarily even thought about in that way.
So I'm really glad that you're that you're sharing that experience because how I mean how much easier would it be for our students to be able to go through and practice the assessment in the language that they already know and understand to know how it works to know how it sounds.
And then I have to think a lot about how I can make sure that it really fits in with the other students or the functions, the mechanics of that assessment.
So never I go back into it, I don't have to worry about that anymore. All I have to worry about is showing off my bilingual superpower.
Just that just that that's really that's really great insight. And that sounds like using translanguaging.
the biggest problem with the UIDA or TOEFL is that they're like only serving their purposes as a gatekeeper, not like formative assessment.
And I think, as Julie mentioned, the system is already there, right? So like before Dr. Forbes mentioned the eLab, I had no idea like this kind of document existed.
For your daughter, right?
Yeah. And of course, I, for my for example, my EL students, I got the eLab for my student for my language assessment project. And just one look at the eLab would reveal many facts.
Like, for example, her speaking level would be like 1.8. Whereas a reading level is like almost 5.0.
Wow.
And like I was Yeah, so like, those utilizing those data and a little talk with her mom or herself would tell a lot of information about the student because like she's already fully like literally in her native language,
so only like the best, like optimal strategies, learning strategies or like the teachers could use is that the student should learn how to like transfer that knowledge in L1 to English, right?
So I think those informations on the eLab would be should be utilized, not just, you know, leave it there and like just done with and yeah, that's, I think that's, that's something that can be done here.
Yeah, no, for sure.
Like, like, as a teacher, I know, like, we're all busy and our work is never done, right? And we could easily say like, we don't have time for that.
But yeah, I mean, for the students, it's a lot better for them to utilize those strategies and utilizing those data. And like to stick to the question that Dr.
Forb asked, like a few things, there are a few things that I came up with.
So like, in the eLab, it says like the heritage, what kind of heritage language the teacher has.
So, for example, there's I know there's a fourth grader Korean newcomer in my daughter's school. So maybe the teacher homeroom teacher like learning from this data, they can match those two students to, you know, to exchange a heritage language.
So, I mean, the optimal thing would be like heritage language instruction, but like practically, it's not, you know, feasible.
So in the near future in like a place like Edmunds, so like Korean, so I think like pairing up those language exchange partnerships, and also like holding some kind of cultural events to validate the heritage culture and language.
A thousand percent.
So adding the additive biolinguism would be something that we could pull off. Right.
So to two parts to this, I think are really interesting. One, how you had mentioned that you have experienced a lot of opportunities for engagement in the school system where your daughter does go to school.
But yet at the same time, through all those experiences, although you probably did receive a parent notification letter that said that your child has scores and listening, speaking, reading and writing, etc.
And it's a one point this and a four point that or whatever it is. Right. But the fact that all of that engagement and involvement didn't necessarily translate into you even understanding that she had an English language acquisition plan.
I think one is telling because we know that our parents are the first teachers of our students.
And so whenever we're able to have that communication, that conversation, just think about all of the amazing things that we can come up with together again, ironing sharpening iron, and we can create experiences at home and in the classroom that elevate content and language at the same time.
While doing what you just said, which is everything that I'm all about is uplifting those those those cultures that are represented, not just globally, but most specifically in our schools and in our districts, making that a huge celebration.
It's so funny that you mentioned that, too, because that happened at my school.
I'll never forget the first year that I had parent teacher conferences and I was sharing all that information with them.
Once I learned how to do that, it was so great.
But now also this year alone, like we took those scores and we showed the students like a lot of these students had been taking this test since they were pre K and they never had seen like all of it all together across all the different domains.
And I think it really encouraged them this year to do really well on the WIDA test, because every year it's just, oh, it's that test I have to take again.
Right. And no one really knows why they don't know why.
Yeah.
Yes. And so for them to see where they're at was, I think has made huge leaps and bounds for them.
I think it's a great opportunity for us to let students know that, hey, here is your English language acquisition plan.
This is what it is.
It is what it looks like.
It lets them be charged of their learning.
And it is, you know, rather unfortunate that you're going to have to take another assessment than some of your friends are going to have to take.
But at the same time, though, what it can do is it can show off, again, your superpower.
And it's one step closer to the syllabi literacy for some of our students, which therefore impacts scholarships, impacts career opportunities and many other things that might be really fantastic for their future.
And we will be right back.
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And now back to the show.
I want to go back a little bit to the newcomer student who is from Korea as well, and the idea of intentionally bringing these students together, not only for the purpose of being able to to have someone that has experience here versus the newcomer, and they can speak and talk to each other and probably lower the effective filter again.
And calm our nerves a lot because there is a lot of culture shock that can happen.
Most definitely, we've discussed that on previous episodes before, but I want to touch a little bit on the idea of translanguaging.
And I know that that hasn't necessarily been a deep conversation necessarily yet in what we've been discussing, but we have discussed it.
We have brought up the concept of translanguaging, discussed what that looks like, what that can look like in the classroom, and read a little bit of research about that.
But how do you think that the role of translanguaging might support those two students from Korea specifically whenever you have someone who has, again, experience in the education system who can communicate now with a student who's a brand newcomer and having that shared within a content area in class?
So I can actually comment on that because I actually, I actually substituted for this student.
So the student she's referring to, I told her about this student.
You had the inside information.
Yeah, so she knows about this student because I actually substituted for them.
And I will say this is the first time I had a teacher leave a note that there was an EL in the class.
The note did, all it did say, though, was that you're probably going to have to use a translator app to be able to communicate with the student because it doesn't know any English.
But they did have another student in the class that also spoke Korean that spoke English.
And because I did learn some Korean while I was teaching there, I was able to go and talk to her in her native language.
And I saw her eyes get so big.
And she was just like when they were doing like their math, it was for math.
It was a math assignment.
She was actually like flagging me over to ask to ask for help, and I was able to help her with my limited career.
But I was still able to help her with that.
And the other student that was in the class that typically helps her, he had noticed that he hadn't had to go over there to explain anything to her or walk her through it.
And he looked at me and I asked him, I was like, because it was in the plan, if he was OK, he was like, yeah, but I typically I help her because she doesn't know English.
And I was like, well, I know Korean.
And he goes, wait, really?
And so I, I, he was very, he was very shocked by it.
And he was telling me he's like, yeah, it's hard because I have to help her with hers before I can do mine.
But I did notice that he didn't have this one thing we've we've kind of learned is maybe if you have a student who is helping that student to give them less work sometimes.
So that way, because they're having to do two jobs of learning themselves and then also teaching that to their to their classmate.
But he had the same amount as everybody else.
And so he was like, I was able to actually get through all of my own work because I wasn't having to help her.
But he said that every day he has to help her in every class.
Yeah, I think I think so often sometimes that that ends up being a little bit of the fallacy, unfortunately, of what ends up happening is that we you know, you had to know which I think it's important for the substitute or anyone to be able to know a little
bit about the language learning process, but it's not necessarily that we're going to have the other student have to end up taking on adult responsibilities sometimes because I think that there's a great there's that balance there, right?
Between let's collaborate and be able to work together, have grade level content still, because just because this child's level of Korean is not the same as their level of English proficiency, they're going to have to have to have a language learning process.
And so that's a great point.
And so I think that the fact that we're not on grade level of English proficiency doesn't mean that content wise, we're not on grade level.
And so we can't always just relay or relay rely on a translation app, for example, or another student, you know, just translating because then we're kind of missing in that in that beauty.
That we just use it so like loosely and easily and just say, hey, student X, can you go ahead and use your superpower that I don't really recognize the superpower so you can go ahead and do my job and your job?
And that maybe not, you know, not really being the intention.
Whenever you step back and look at it, it's kind of exactly what that process was, as opposed to creating a space for trans languaging to happen where they can be working on grade level content together, looking up information in any language,
having those conversations, going through that cognitive process of understanding the content and then finding scaffolded ways to produce comprehensible output in the target language or in both languages, perhaps.
So that way, everyone is being enriched by hearing the other language, but also acquiring another language as well.
It's exciting for me.
I heard someone say in a training not too long ago, most specifically in a multilingual classroom that's not maybe just Korean speakers or just Spanish speakers, but whenever you have Japanese, Korean, English, Spanish, German, French, for example, Mandarin, all in one classroom.
For example, when I had the seven countries and eight languages, how do you create that ecosystem in your classroom where people feel valued and celebrated and they get to use all of their language assets, all of their linguistic repertoire as they're acquiring an additional language at the same time?
That would be really challenging.
It is. Yeah, it is. But that's where you start to get really creative as a teacher.
Yeah, like 10 different languages could mean like 10 different lenses, 10 different perspectives.
Absolutely.
Well, you know, language builds on each other, right? So the more that I hear about other languages, it only enhances mine at the same time.
Well, I also substitute at the high school level and they did have that kind of ecosystem within the classes. There were students who spoke from Afghanistan, from China, from Mexico, from Colombia, from Poland, from where else?
There was another one.
I can't remember, but like India, like all like this. I mean, that's multiple different languages, multiple backgrounds, and they would all be in the one class together learning English.
And it was one thing I will say that was kind of fun was sitting back and watching them interact with each other, because while they all had like English is kind of like that commonality between them, I would I would see some of the Spanish speakers speaking with the Chinese speakers, but they're speaking in their native languages.
And then they would have they would have a translator out between them, but they were just conversing normally.
And they and they would help each other with the assignment that was in English, but doing it in their native languages.
And it was they're making some metalinguistic awareness, right? They're making some connections.
Yeah, I will say that was one of my most fun classes to have substituted for just because I could hear multiple different languages being spoken at the same time as they were just because like one kid called called his mom and he was speaking in Polish on the phone.
At the same time that was happening with those with those girls like talking to each other.
And then there are two brothers who were speaking to each other.
And so hearing it all happen while they're all still working on their English assignment.
That is so incredible. I mean, they're really making cross linguistic connections right there in the moment and still acquiring the content that was needed.
And I just want to like reinforce it again, like no one is getting behind whenever multiple languages get to be used.
It's actually the quite opposite. You acquire more of your additional language and you have a deeper understanding of the content that you're learning.
And I noticed like the girls who spoke of different languages would they were teaching each other also their own language.
They would teach each other certain certain words and phrases so then that way they could talk to each other still in their native as well besides English.
I would have I would have some people that would tell me sometimes because again in the classroom they would learn everyone else's language and they said, but no, they're not learning English.
I'm like, no, they're actually learning all the languages and English.
And so I think that's really important for relationship building, too.
Like even in my own classroom, I use French sometimes is like I'll ask them in Spanish how to say something in Spanish.
But I'm like, oh, interesting, because it's similar in French.
And they're like, they're very interested and intrigued by that.
So I think that is really cool.
As they said, that's important to like have to make the environment that students know that it is OK not knowing English or it is OK to be like multilingual.
Like it's as you said, the quite opposite is so cool to have like knowledge or like skills that they know another language except English or a multilingual.
Yeah, I have a school I've been to the school says that there was the more multiple Asian students like and they came here and then learning English.
But I was doing the Japanese presentation to promote Japanese culture for the middle school.
That was the middle school, so like first grade.
And then so after the presentation, one girl came up to me and says, hey, how about like, you know, like what do you eat when you do this in your country?
Because my country does this.
So she started sharing her own culture.
And then the classroom teacher saw it and then came up to me like, what was saying?
Because I never heard like she said that she's super quiet.
She never like open her mind to share any personal stuff.
But I said, I think she's from Korea.
And then she was sharing the food and then like stuff.
But she said, oh, I didn't know that.
Also, the classroom teacher didn't know where she's from, what kind of like background background culture she has.
So I think it's also like important that for the teacher to have more interest and then try to understand or like to be beside the student.
Yes. So that way they know or they feel more comfortable to open their mind about.
I totally agree that validating one's culture and the language is really important.
Like even as a graduate student, like sometimes in our classroom, certain terms like standard deviation, like the Korean translation sticks to me like more easily than the English translation.
So just to be able to communicate in your language, like makes them feel like more confident and sometimes the addition.
I think that is one of the most important things that we can do is truly take real specific and intentional moments to recognize the cultures that are represented and to celebrate them.
And, you know, it's that saying, even if I don't speak your language, I can still sit at your table and share your food.
I can still learn your stories and the more that I learn about that, the more it influences me as an educator to be a better educator.
Because an education, from my point of view, is it's a form of servant leadership.
It's we're here to serve others. We know what we have to do according to accreditation or rules or policies or whatever directives that we have for us from our superintendents or whatever initiatives we have overall.
But we also know those that we're serving, right? And so the more that we can understand and listen to understand, not listening just to answer or listening to say,
your way of parental engagement was wrong and so this is how you're supposed to do it, but really building upon all of the funds of knowledge and all the assets that we bring,
I think can't help but change our pedagogical practices and the way that we evaluate the programs that we're in to make them better.
Because whenever you go back and you start looking at data, we can see where some students overall in the multilingual field of education do make gains of success.
But if you look nationwide, it typically there's different demographics, different subcategories, for example.
But it's a lot of times you'll see your multilingual students not always represented in your advanced placement classes are not always represented in your honors classes or maybe not participating in whatever program.
At the same level that you would, or even their academic performance. And I think a lot of that has to go back to what we've been discussing.
If teachers don't know the English language acquisition plan, if they don't understand the role that culture plays in what we do in our work and our assessments, whether it be formative or summative.
And if we don't understand the cultural components of this, that could also create, you know, even bias in what we do. There's conscious bias and there's unconscious bias sometimes.
And we've been having some conversations about this as well about cultural bias in assessments.
And even just driving over here, I saw where there's a Catholic church nearby and it said mass schedule.
And when it said mass schedule, even just in that moment, I was considering different ways that you could think and interpret that.
Had you not known it was specific to a Catholic church, right?
And so mass could mean multiple different things. But since you were coming from the background of Catholicism, you knew that mass was their service and the schedule was the schedule of the services that they have, which is mass, right?
But that could have been interpreted in a different way, from a different background. So with that in mind, how have you experienced professionally or personally cultural bias potentially in assessment and how has that impacted you and or your students?
This isn't necessarily like a bias per se, but one day, like my daughter came up to me and said, like, how was I supposed to know, like, how many inches, how many inches are there in our feet?
And because it's South Korea, I shared this story.
So like, like Korea uses like metric system.
In the United States, you guys use it. In the various systems, like, she had no idea like how long an inch is, or a little long like how those like, how different.
Like what even is that?
Yeah, measuring.
That's such a good example.
So like, yeah, she said, like, I even though I knew all the rules, how to solve the math problem, she couldn't because like, and she was like, kind of, this was like early in like, like, late August or something.
So when like, right, like one month after we moved, and she wasn't like sure like whether she could ask questions at all.
Because like in Korea, it's not like it's kind of like a taboo to.
So like, yeah, she said she shared a story and like, I realized like, this kind of like gave me a new lens to look through my assessment as well.
So like, like looking through these newly acquired lenses made me realize like, even though like really highly standardized tasks could be really based upon like build upon a lot of assumptions.
Yeah. So this was an eye opening experience for me.
I have an experience taking a test and taking a homework and doing a homework and grammar assignment.
So the response question in English, the negative form.
So like, didn't you go back to Japan this summer?
If it's no, that means you went back to Japan.
Japanese, how you responded in Japanese is opposite.
Okay. So if it's no.
It's yes, we say.
I feel like you see that a lot in tests, don't you?
Like where they try to trick you a little bit.
They try to trick you.
The Japanese grammar are totally different.
So it can be confused.
Like I was having a hard time to say, is it?
Yes, I didn't, but it has to be.
This is like, this is right here.
This is what's so interesting and gets me so excited because, you know, like it's hard to explain.
Well, no, but I mean, but it makes so much sense just because of just like grammatically how Japanese is versus in English.
I mean, like, for example, my salsa partner, Marti, I always laugh because if I ask you a question from Colombia, anyhow, but you ask the question, she goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
See, it is like, no, no, no, no, no, yes. But anyhow, she's like, no, but we would be like, no, no, no, yes.
But it's like no, but yes, but yes, but it's no.
It happens all the time to me, too, because like in the Korean language is similar to Japanese in that way.
Like a couple of days ago, I went to Trader Joe's and I bought this canvas bag and the clerk asked me, like, don't you want this bag to be used?
I froze because I like to like translate in Korean and then like respond like, do I?
Different way than I do in Korean.
So like, but I made a mistake and I said yes.
And she kind of like, I like the total confusion occurred because of that, you know, difference.
So also, like each culture also has like practice.
But I think I believe that language has on the Japanese. I think here all of you know that Japanese verb comes at the end of the sentence.
So the most important part comes last.
So the Japanese personality when I talk or like when I write the essay, the Japanese essay, we tended to explain the process or reason first.
And then the result comes back.
You have to wait until the last to the main point.
But when I was practicing the essay or the question, it's all kind of main point first and then break it down.
So it's something that you need to do like a skills or.
And that would impact the outcome of a student on their assessment.
And so if they're writing an essay, for example, which I know, Julie, you specifically had done your paper about multiple choice versus essay questions.
Like, you know, and that's an interesting topic to consider as an issue in assessment.
What does that look like for the essay portion?
In my understanding, if I'm the one grading it with a rubric or something, what does that look like?
Because if it is a placement assessment, maybe I'll misplace them.
If it is just the standardized test, maybe as a gatekeeping assessment, for example,
then maybe it doesn't allow them to exit out of a program because I wasn't aware of that in the language and I couldn't express that.
And we couldn't have that conversation to let them know what the set up of the assessment was supposed to be.
What was that essay supposed to look like?
And I think that you had maybe mentioned that in South Korea before that even math is different, right?
The fractions or in considering how it's the whole even the address starts with the country and goes down.
Do you mind sharing that that that's the.
So I as perspective, I think it's really cultural thing like culture is such like air you breathe in.
You don't realize like it's all natural, right?
It's almost feel like a skin to yourself.
But like for someone who's from out of that culture, it could be really foreign.
Yeah, yeah. It's weird.
So what was the question again?
So we first. Well, just considering like that cultural bias, like if I were teaching math, but I didn't recognize.
Oh, yeah. That's what everyone does.
So the Korean culture and as well as like most Asian culture, I think we are focused on like the holistic stuff.
So even reading the way we read address comes from like the we do mean from the bigger things to smaller things.
So my address in Korea would read.
South Korea, Seoul, like something, something.
So yeah, district and then the apartment suite.
But it's the opposite, exactly opposite here. Right.
So you zoom out from starting from the smaller units.
So even reading the fractions would be like we here it's one third.
Right. So you focus on one out of like the whole.
Yeah. You know, three parts.
But we hear for Koreans, it's like exactly the opposite.
So like in Korean, it's something like three.
Like there is three parts and then you take one.
You really like that. So for like for my daughter, it's crazy.
I get confused every time.
So it takes her time. She figured out like eventually, but she was like, I'm planning.
Why is it so difficult in English?
Now, do that now, do do her teachers know, know that?
I don't think so. Like, I mean, like as much as she like her teacher is kind and everything, like I.
I'm not sure like whether she shares.
Maybe she does.
Well, I recognize it, right. And it impacts the results.
It impacts our evaluation of the programs.
So it's just really important to consider. What does that bias look like?
Well, I was going to say it wasn't even until I took this class that I had even considered like test bias.
Like that was like like when you get you read off one of those questions,
those questions that I was like, how is that bias?
And then I was like, oh, yeah.
So I think that is I think it's really important just for educators to be aware.
Just to be aware that they exist.
I mean, you can't you can't be 100 percent when you're creating assessments,
but you can be aware and you can, you know, just take that moment to stop and ask yourself,
you know, how can this be answered?
How many different ways this can be answered?
What different lens could you look through to answer this?
And for that kind of going back to what I said earlier about how teachers might not what we were saying earlier about teachers
not having access or not having access, but not being aware of those elapsed to have access and know what they can do for for me.
When I was substituting, there was a student who his native language and I can't remember exactly which his native language was,
but like the alphabet was completely different. Right.
And he was having to take a quiz.
But there was no note for the substitute for me as a substitute that he might need more time or you might need to walk him through the questions
just to be able to do this.
So those teachers, even though they're not leaving for this, they might not be aware.
So they're just giving him this this quiz or this test with the assumption of he's going to do it the same time as everybody else.
And so then he's obviously going to fail it because he's not getting that extra help.
And so the bias of is, well, he's in my class.
He can do it just like the others are.
He's just not getting the content.
And then they fail him. Yeah.
And knowing, OK, well, his language, his native language doesn't have the same alphabet.
So he's even having to read it one letter at a time and not even able to write simple words.
Like he asked for help on how to spell cat.
And this was a fourth grader. Yeah.
And he was having to write a group like a sentence about prepositions.
And it's like he came and spell the word cat without help one letter at a time.
How is he supposed to be able to answer a quiz question about a preposition?
And so, again, you know, important to consider what are we assessing?
What's our goal? What are we trying to learn?
And making sure that because, of course, we can't we don't we know none of us know everything.
We're all human trying to do our best to learn more.
But I think that we can at least have the good intention and actually apply ourselves to reflect upon, again,
the students whom we're serving in our classrooms, their cultures, their languages,
because language and culture really can't be separated, but they have their own unique characteristics.
Right. Like you were saying.
But then just for me to at least as I'm going through and grading my formative or summative assessment,
being able to stop and reflect, is this still meeting the standard of what I was assessing,
even though it's not necessarily the answer I thought I was going to get?
Because maybe there was a little bias in there based on background, based on culture, based on language,
based on language syntax, the forms, you know, things of that nature that just had as answer differently
from what the teacher or the administrator had even considered being an option as an answer.
I think that's really, really interesting and something good for for all of us out there in education
to consider as we are providing accommodations and support for our students in preparation throughout the year
for their end of the year assessment, content area or language proficiency. Right.
Well, as we wrap up here, I just want to ask one last question about you all reflecting on your own journey
in multilingual and multicultural education.
And here in this interconnected global society, I think that we ourselves are able to learn so much more
about different languages and cultures than we have been able to before.
And I think it's taking that time and that opportunity to really jump in and make that happen.
But in reflecting upon your own experiences, again, either personally or professionally,
what stands out as your most significant realization since you began your master's program?
Oh, my gosh, for me, it was probably not just not just the certain course, but I mean, it can be.
But overall in the program. No, no, absolutely.
For me, it was definitely my sheltered instruction training, just that they throw us into for being a new teacher,
an ELD teacher, especially. But it really. Oh, my gosh.
It really just gave me a deeper understanding and respect and appreciation for my students.
I mean, talk about a moment one after the other. You know what I mean?
So that for me was really incredible. And it just it just changed my perspective on everything.
So and how I approach teaching and how I approach my interact with my students.
So it actually is so rememberable for me. Fantastic.
Anyone else? I believe that like language, like learning or studying, acquiring the language will last forever.
Like studying math, maybe during the school year or like until you graduate.
Some people they don't deal with later on after that. Right.
But the language will be like, like always be with your life.
So something that has to be lost longer, I think it's important for the teacher to like attract the students to have more interest.
I think I really love the word interest, because if you don't like it, you can't keep doing right study or improve.
Yeah. So I think the teacher can play the role to have not kids, but the students.
Yeah. Like help to make things compelling.
Exciting. Yeah. Bridge to the language and students.
Well, I think that's really interesting because that's exactly you don't learn from people that you don't like. Right.
If you're interested in your teachers or if they take interest in you, like you're definitely going to obtain that information.
Yeah, for me, it's at least for my personal experience would be more so when I was in Korea,
whereas it was a little bit different from teaching English as a second language here and helping those multilingual learners.
But they're they're learning English as a foreign language, so it's slightly different experience.
But seeing their progress was so motivating for me and seeing my students when I would walk in the door at the beginning of the school day
and my little kindergartners and first and second graders would come up to me and say something to me in English that they had learned.
And then wanting to take the time like every time they'd see me, they would point to something,
like point something out that they had learned and say it in English. And it was just like.
I it made me smile every time because they were going out of their way to try and speak in my language, and so I would do the same for them.
I would try and speak to them in Korean, but seeing just the progress of all of my students,
because I did kindergarten through sixth grade and seen them progress over the years and from when they started to when I left.
Just having that opportunity to impact their English and some to go on and say that they want to keep learning it because they had so much fun in the classes and that, you know.
This yeah, so overall, just it was it was really meaningful to me,
and it's actually part of the reason why I decided to continue that here in the field was because of my experience there,
helping them learn English and so continue. But obviously, how much they've impacted you.
Yeah, at the same time. Yeah, that's incredibly special.
And this has happened to me when I was in Korea, too.
I was working in a kind of like an experimental school where teachers get to experiment whatever they want to do, like the old resources, like the old money was there.
So like I collaborated with one of the music teacher and with this this like collaborative assessment where music and English can be assessed.
And this was kind of like a group project where students get to choose like one pop song and then they could even like like change the lyrics.
And there was this because I randomly purposely grouped together like certain students.
There was this troublemaker and like everybody like didn't like him.
It was kind of like there was a certain point where he gets like violent and even teach some teachers, including myself, maybe was afraid of him.
But like I remember like what got into him or what kind of like other members of that group persuaded him.
But like I like still like to this day, like I still like vividly remember where like the whole group like sang together like this song by Jason Mraz,
kind of me and one of the students brought even the guitar to play along.
Oh, I was like everything like there were like certain like other teachers who attended because it was kind of like a little concert.
And like I remember like how shocked everybody was because like the look like the blushing face of him.
Like, like, yeah, I always hold it.
Everybody is struggling his own battle.
Like you have no idea about it.
You should we should get if students like benefit of the doubt, like for certain behaviors.
But like we can be really teachers can be teachers.
Job can be very draining and stressful.
So like I was at the point, but like seeing them, I really realized like the purpose of my job as a teacher to serve my students.
And also, like during the presentation, Dr. Fowles asked me, like I was doing this presentation about like the comparison between Korean and American.
And at the end of the presentation, Dr. Fowles asked what kind of service I could do when I go back to Korea to Korean learners.
And it was like really I was really like taken aback because that's something that I've never like thought about.
And yeah, that was really an eye-opening experience for me since I started this master program.
Something that I've been really grateful and happy about.
Well, I I'm so honored and just thankful I get to to be with you all in this space.
And I mean that with all my heart because you all have helped have helped me learn more than what I expected to to to learn from this.
But I wouldn't have been able to had it not been for your vulnerability and being open and talking about this.
And then even coming here today to share this, and it's so much better for so many people listening.
Before we close out, are there any final words anyone would like to share or any just anything for the listeners out there, whether they're in education or not,
whether it be about school or not, but just about maybe culture and the connections that we have in our everyday life?
Is there anything that you all would like to share in your final words?
I just believe that always one second that you can inspire or change someone's life.
So as educators, there's a lot of there are a lot of moments like to deal with students who has a lot of potential in the future.
So I think we should be aware and then super confident that I can change their lives.
So I'm also passionate about sharing culture, especially Japanese culture.
But I keep doing this and then wants to meet people that I want to change someone's life.
But I also want to always.
Always. Yeah, that's what we're doing, changing lives every day and having our lives changed as well.
I definitely I definitely agree with that.
That's the main reason I became a teacher is because of that.
Just that feeling that you get from making such a huge impact in someone's life.
And I remember my own educational upbringing and all my teachers that inspired me in my life.
And, yeah, it's definitely huge.
So just I guess for our listeners, just a takeaway is just to.
Be mindful of your of your students, their culture, embrace their abilities to speak another language.
And just help them on this journey. I mean, it's it's huge, but it's so rewarding.
As an introvert, sometimes it takes me courage to open up and speak up to like strangers or like even some friends.
But I think when you open up, there's a lot more to learn.
And I just want to stay as a student for the rest of my life and encouraging people and getting courage by other people.
So, yeah, we should all give it a try.
Look at ourselves as a student. I mean, we are.
We're constantly learning, constantly growing.
I know I am. And it's huge every time I think I know it all.
I'm like, I know nothing at all.
I mean, even for the non-educators, those who are maybe more from the monolingual cultural side,
just be more open minded because you're you know, there are so many people from different cultures out there.
And just taking just that one second to maybe have that simple conversation, even if it's just a hello.
How are you? Even if it's in broken English from one side or from your side.
Well, it makes an impact on that person because that person might say, oh, you took the second to listen to me.
You took that second to hear me.
And it can change their experience as well, because you never know what what they're going through, what they've gone through.
And everyone's changed the world.
Yeah, I think I think we're all in our culturally proficient journeys, learning more about ourselves and people around us.
And I think that the more open minded that we are, the more that we sit down and listen to other people and have shared experiences.
I think that we can really be better in who we are as as individuals, but also collectively in remembering that all of us are in this together.
You listeners out there and this amazing panel right here, I just have to say again, thank you so much for being here and and for for opening up and for sharing all of your experiences and your expertise.
There cannot be a better panel than four amazing educational professionals, graduate students who are doing great things in this world.
And I just appreciate you so much.
Also want to do a big shout out to our producer, Mike Overhole.
Thank you so much for being with us today and to Dr.
Taylor Tribble and EduSkills, EduSkills being the sponsor of our podcast today.
And so I'm thankful that we were able to even, you know, for for the projects that we're doing and things that we're discussing and even for your daughter.
And consider the English language acquisition plans produced through EduSkills to help you and your daughter and her teacher, all of the teachers work more collaborative together for language and for content acquisition purposes.
So it's been so fun to be with you all today.
Thank you so much to all the listeners out there.
Again, thank you so much for everything.
And we're about to sign out.
And so I hope you have a great rest of your day and adios.
Thank you for joining us today.
Don't forget to like, follow and subscribe.
Adios.