Welcome to Cultural Connections Lab. I'm your host, Dr. Kelly Forbes. We are here to talk with educational professionals around the world to impact and influence the education system as we focus on cultural connections and the education of multilingual, diverse students.
We're excited to have you join us today. We sincerely hope that you enjoy the show.
All right. I'm really excited to be here. This is our very first time to do the Cultural Connections Lab at the Oklahoma Association for Multilingual Education. And the rationale behind that was one, to spread more awareness about culture, the role it plays, and what we do in our careers and our fields, how that impacts how we move forward, but also just to bring some awareness to the association, to OWABE.
But again, I'm really glad to have you here, Dr. Paul Parkerson. And just introduce yourself if you don't mind.
Yes, thank you. Yeah, I know it's great to be here.
I heard about the conference and it piqued my interest because I live in Texas. I teach in Texas, work in Texas. But just the knowledge I have of what Oklahoma has in terms of multiple languages, a bilingual educators conference just sounded really interesting, so it intrigued me.
I think I mentioned to you it piqued my interest. So I kind of threw my name in the hat to see, well, let's see if they'll. And so you guys said, yeah, why don't you come on out. So it's already we've had several like a breakout session and then a panel and it's been a lot of fun. Very good.
Well, I'm really glad that you are here. I feel like, as I had just mentioned earlier in the panel discussion that we had, you know, like soccer to us like the more that you dig down to this like the more you know you, the more you know nothing.
So all of that the one thing that I really have feel like the I'm most connected to and no pun on the title of the podcast but it really are like those cultural connections the way the way that culture is celebrated is understood and what we do.
Not just for academics and just for language learning but way after pre K 12 way after the university. So do you mind speaking just a little bit about how has culture impacted you what role has culture played in maybe your own personal life, how that translates over into
For our students. Yeah, no, that's a great question because it's so vast, frankly, but I grew up in another culture and I think I grew up in Spain, but I went to high school finished high school and college in the United States.
And they have a name for us there for a while it was trendy they call this third culture. Oh, okay. And it's a whole thing. But regardless, I always felt like I was just sort of an alien like I don't really fit here I don't fear fit here.
And when I was in grad school I started reading a little bit about Gloria and salua and her whole Borderlands thing anyway, culture is huge. It is tied to our identity and I think we all agree that that's just such an integral part of any relationship.
So if you're talking about friendship culture is a part of that. If you're talking about family culture as a part of that. And so then when we come into talking about education, then of course, instructor educator student, the entire learning space is a social cultural
event that so to not include that in any conversation would be nonsensical. Yeah, so I think that and so, as we we talk about that, you know the importance of being, what is it being culturally responsive being culturally competent.
That's sort of a given. It's almost like, like, teaching one on one education one on one and then when you start talking about multilingualism bilingualism, anything of that nature, the culture gets even more rich in the context of why that's important.
It's important just because but then when you start adding language to it when you start adding social cultural components and connecting those. Oh my goodness.
It's just something. I think it's why I was so attracted to education, because of my background, because it was a way to mesh all of this stuff. And frankly, I'm a people person and so I love learning about other people. Well, why do you speak that language.
And what is that and traveling and having been exposed to the world is a huge place, you realize there's just so much to take in. And so, I think, I tell my students many times.
We're curious about things together. So let's learn together. So I don't know if that answers your question. No, it's 100%. And so I mean that right there was a big theme that really came up was the, the teacher, the professor, the
students, and with the students at the same time from each other. One thing though that I'll always like to share and be vulnerable, because if I'm not vulnerable, then I don't feel like any of the listeners or anyone or it's not real.
I'm always surprised like, oh, you speak Spanish because they just assume the blonde haired spiky, you know, spiky hair guy probably the blue eyes doesn't doesn't speak any Spanish. I learned Spanish, because of going to high school because of Senora Atticus because of an amazing teacher and was just
fortunate to have the support the family, the resources to acquire another language. The vulnerable part is that I had made an assumption about you and from where you might be from in your background based on how you look and so I'm glad that I did, because every time
that you that happens like the second that you do that I remember, don't don't assume anything right. Yeah. And so then immediately you were explaining that your background of living in Costa Rica, and in Spain, and in Spain, and your, the life that you've lived I think
it's important for us as educators to make sure that we're constantly asking ourselves, am I making assumptions. How does that impacting what I'm doing.
But do you want to do you want to speak to that does that happen to you often like I have a feeling like they're like, oh, you speak Spanish, I'm glad that you're being vulnerable about it my friends that know my story know me and they tell me that I'm
a little bit backwards. You know, white outside brown inside, and whatever that means but the point is, I always have had that happen that's part of my story and so I remember once I had a student and he said, Yeah, after I met you, you know, Mr.
and I went home, they gave me my mom, mama, be my stress in Bolivia, but I was funny. And I was like, what's a Bolivia, and so I had to learn what that was because I never even heard of it turns out it's white bread.
Anyway, that's just part of my, my, my story and so I it's just, but I think you're so right that vulnerability of not assuming that because somebody looks a certain way, speaks a certain way moves a certain way.
The, the outer trappings. We, of course, it's how we use how we navigate life you know we have to make some assumptions to start, but I think it's that intentionality of being willing to go.
No, it's not at all what I thought. Yeah. And then, especially in those learning spaces with our students, learning that because I remember I had a student in a class once that we I believe it was a fourth grade class, and a big percentage of my
students were from Mexico, and it took several months for us to get to a point where he finally, we were talking about pupusas, and he said, well, I know what a pupu, you know what a pupu size, and it turned out he was from Honduras.
Yeah, and not from Mexico.
But he wanted to say and so we, we, I think sometimes feel compelled to, you know, not volunteer too much but I think that it's important. I think a good teacher is separated from a great teacher in many ways by willing that willingness to be vulnerable,
I think, I think that that's a key element there. It's uncomfortable. It is, but the more that you practice it, it becomes like addicting to constantly want to like, well like you said you feel like it's not real.
I think that's what it is. I think you're absolutely correct. Yeah, yeah, exactly because I mean, like I said, a lot of people whether it be linguistically because of my background from where I might be, etc. Like they also have their own stereotypes or assumptions and things like that.
I think it's just a good, a good place for us to kind of stop and then reflect upon all of the assets that you're bringing that had I not been able to have this conversation with you have a new friend in you, but to be able to know that you bring so much more to this conversation
than what I had assumed and so if we have that same practice with, as I always call them the best professors that we have are our students, and we have that open communication I think that really helps build cultural proficiency, which is the goal, right,
absolutely and I and I think that cultural proficiency. If there's one thing I could say that maybe I've learned up through this journey is that the only thing that's consistent about all these multilingual and multicultural learners that I've had the privilege of meeting
is that there's nothing consistent. The diversity is just off the charts and just when you feel like you're getting comfortable enough to maybe make some assumptions, boom, it gets blown out. Yeah, so yeah, that's not fun.
It makes it a lot more interesting. I think it's, it keeps my interest you know it's what helps me stay the course.
All of this right here so I want to make sure I get the, the name correct you're about to present a session here at the conference, and your session is titled using bilingual anticipatory guides and multilingual learning spaces.
I am excited for the participants here at the conference to go to that. So, do you want to share a little bit about a little preview what that's going to be about.
Absolutely. What role does culture play in that even. It's it's interesting because I think culture is is part of it for sure, but this is actually geared more towards the classroom teacher, because it's something that I've been very interested in, and I've
been researched in the classroom for over a decade, just trying different permutations trying it, you know using the students become your guinea pigs, and you just try different things, and then seeing what sort of works.
What works better. And of course we all know that you know there's there's so many moving parts and variables, what works with one group of students may not work with another group. But regardless, the idea is to focus on the culture, and specifically the language and the
linguistic repertoire that the students have to help leverage reading comprehension. Okay. And so, the strategy that I use is, and I'm not a huge fan of, you know, standing and talking.
I prefer that we do something so it's focused on, here's, here's, here's an example of some materials, and we do it together, so that the people that are in the in the breakout session, get a chance to see how it works.
And then they can go back to the classroom, and then have something they can take back and try out in their learning space. Okay, I like that so much. My.
Another shout out to my mother, I did this last time too I don't I don't mean to intentionally but she does not work in education, her only background education is going to school and me.
And so whenever she listens to the podcast she always talks about how this can branch off into any other place any other organization a company, etc. But whenever you talk about specifically for for teachers for for principles for professional
leaders that are working in a plasma center for example that are still working with people from a vast variety of backgrounds, etc. What recommendations do you have for them to make their faculty meeting, or that meeting after school that really could have been an email
actually like how do you make that more engaging in the same way that you're about to present a session because I feel like oftentimes, and maybe this isn't your experience but you go to the meeting after school, and like sometimes people fall asleep.
Oh yes, or the, I always think about like a sheltered instruction activity like use that activity to get the point across in your faculty meetings now you're showing the pedagogical practice but still getting the point across.
Well, the, the interesting thing is right now I'm, I'm very fortunate to have one foot in an actual elementary school classrooms setting with with elementary kids, and I'm also adjunct teaching so I have the opportunity to work with pre service teachers,
so I get that whole continuum. But if there's one thing that like you said, I noticed that's consistent. What do the students want at an elementary in an elementary context they want something that's engaging motivating fun that that piques their interest
that that that is it. Oh wow let's, what are we doing. And then going on into the university. These pre service teachers these students that are going to become teachers, what do they want. They don't want me to talk about theory and well in a classroom.
Let me show you a video, they want to do something that they would probably be doing in a classroom right. And so, I think that so much of education is, I mean, who was it Vygotsky that did so much research with mothers and children.
And I think that that didactic side of education is simply that doing things, doing something like okay let's learn how to make pancakes, how do you mix the stuff to make the batter, not just I'm going to tell you about it but let's do it and then make the pancakes
and then eat the pancakes. Yes. So I think that's that ties back to being real and being vulnerable. It needs to be pragmatic it needs to be something substantive, you know, not just this pie in the sky theory that's been researched and proven and blah blah blah but actually let's do it.
Let's do it. Yes, yes. Real life. Agreed. Yes. Applicable. What's the I'm curious if anything what's the biggest takeaway that you're seeing from the elementary school setting, all the way to the adults, things like connections that you're making automatically like,
Oh, okay. Wow. Probably education has been changing and absolutely probably the biggest one is that we don't practice what we preach. Ooh, because we sit there and tell our pre service teachers now the least effective mode of education is for one person to speak while while
others sit and listen while you are speaking to them sitting and that that just screams irony, like, what, then why are we doing that.
We should be doing something different. This classroom shouldn't be tables with students taking notes while I talk and my PowerPoint slides. It should be a lab. Yeah, it should be like a cooking show.
You know what I mean. I mean it should be like a classroom. And okay guys so yeah so I don't know I have a lot of.
I'm still my wife tells me I'm still in the, the honeymoon stage.
But I have a lot of ideas of thing with the way I think things could change. So, yeah.
Do the pre service teachers that you currently are working with right now. Are they coming from multicultural multi linguistic backgrounds themselves, and what's that been like for your own learning.
They are and what's very interesting is many of them want to be bilingual teachers. Some of them started out wanting to be bilingual teachers but then when confronted with the testing requirements in the state of Texas, become more, oh I think I'll be an ESL teacher.
Teachers have no interest in or are not bilingual so there's this whole gamut of students that want to be teachers. But, yes, they come from very diverse backgrounds multicultural settings but the thing that they all have in common.
And it's what literally like charges my batteries as a, as a teacher because I'm like, why do you want to be teachers and they're all like well we're for the money, clearly, clearly in the fame and the fortune right all of that.
But they all tell me the same thing you know I want to help kids, I want to change the world I want to and it sounds so idealistic and so Pollyanna but it, I mean, it just, it makes me want to do keep doing what I'm doing.
So, you said something that made me consider something that I really hadn't considered before that they didn't want to necessarily teach a certain content area or a certain grade because it might be tested.
So, interesting whenever you consider, like I had mentioned before whenever we were on the panel that most, so in Texas you have Telpas, here we have WIDA, but you probably have the Telpas standards and you would have your academic standards.
Yeah, Telpas, exactly, but then the content area teacher very well may not have that so just in your comment alone it just goes to show like we categorize these in these silos so much like, okay, so you're the tested and then you're the language development teacher and so the professional development is going to be this for you to meet that goal and this for you, but never the two shall meet normally.
Exactly and I mean, if at the risk of sounding, I don't know what we use the term desegregating we use the term decolonizing we use the term deconstructing.
And yet, why is it that we have to really immerse ourselves in those practices and education is because education has become so compartmentalized and it's like somebody said in the panel, your PD becomes, oh no there's just another thing I have to do as a teacher, and I mean, trust me, any generalist, the list of things they have to do, you know,
wow, I mean, you know, bilingual teacher, yes tack on more.
And, and, and there are so many things that you have to do. But at the same time I think that's what I love about being able to work with these pre service teachers is have that conversation of why do you want to do it, because if you really aren't sure.
That is that the, the energy that drives that otherwise, I think you'll you'll fall short. I think it's as simple as like how to like what does it make you feel. Yeah, I mean truly like whenever you get up in the morning and are you so excited that you can't wait to go do this.
That's right, knowing there's going to be struggling I mean knowing some of the obvious. Absolutely do I get up every day with that joy and that excitement.
I mean, you're not every day but most of those days should feel that way and if they don't enough to keep you employed right. Yes, right. Definitely.
And it's so funny that you say how that's just the conversation about well these are testing group I mean like everyone's a reading teacher everyone's an ELT teacher.
Everyone's tested, whatever because it all connects and so I feel like the more that we continue to categorize and separate all of this as opposed to really thinking about this holistically, and how this is really a benefit for all students and that there was someone
like me, who was never supposed to be bilingual or multicultural or any of that.
It's because of the exposure that I had.
And I think we need to expose those conversations to everyone and start to change that dialogue, our perspectives from deficit to very asset based enhancing the celebration of the cultures represented.
And that speaks to what is it that being more of a global citizen like everybody talks about that. I think that's what that means it's awareness of this giant world we live in and how we can integrate that will not be so.
I mean they care though they're like what I'm doing over here is going inadvertently going to impact the other side of the globe. I mean because we're all on this planet truly together, and you can bring that that focus into a school setting, a district
a community at large, and really start to impact how you're again serving others. That's right important role. What role do leaders play in this and how we have we have we have a lot of leaders that are really good at this and
like take time to to help raise awareness, and the understanding of the superpower of multilingualism or what that really does mean cognitive cognitively for your brain.
But then we have other leaders who don't necessarily understand or or know or maybe have that exposure because there might be just a few of those students and so I'm going to focus on the majority and give some support for the other students.
How do we change that conversation and what role do leaders play in that and can or could play in that. I mean, I, I might be a loaded question too.
I think it is but I mean I think you, you, I think it was you that said it during the panel discussion. The idea of who's here versus who's not here.
Who are we seeing versus who are we not seeing. And I think that's an important part of the conversation, simply from the, what is the purpose behind it.
I come from the school of thought, I believe that leaders have more responsibility. And so, when you have, what is the saying in all the movies with the with the superheroes you know use your superpowers for good not for evil.
And with great responsibility or, or with great power comes great responsibility and that notion of being responsible with whatever it is decision making, looking, having vision envisioning, but also being intentional.
But I think that the leaders I admire the most are the ones that listen more than they speak. And I say that as a person that loves to talk. So, you know, I was always told, Dios te dio dos oidos y una boca.
So you should talk.
Only two hairs in one mouth.
I think that's a sign of a good leader is listening. Yeah, I think it's I think it's really important for that.
I am constant work in progress. There are times whenever I feel like maybe I've done better today than I had expected and then there are days when I think, golly you didn't even get close to the mark Kelly.
Or I find myself back and forth on this continuum of cultural proficiency where I feel like it's culturally proficient but because of my lack of understanding or awareness I was kind of destructive in a moment and I didn't even intend to or mean to.
So I always encourage other other professionals with whom I work, that it's good to have grace and compassion for ourselves. But at the same time though if you are a leader to hold yourself to that higher level of responsibility to make sure that you're not doing anything that would be considered destructive, whether that be a policy, whether that be even just among the teachers, not even among necessarily just the students that you have, but even teachers that you have.
And so in some trainings that I've been able to go to work with teachers, we were in the group setting and it was fun that they found out two different times and two different locations that another teacher was bilingual and no one knew it.
Oh wow. It had never even been discussed.
And I think it's because it probably wasn't Spanish, was the other language, which again was a reflection for me because being bilingual in those two languages I often revert back to comparisons in those two, that's what I know, but I try to make other connections across that as well.
Sure.
Do you have any experiences?
Oh absolutely.
Like that you want to share?
Yeah, I think those blind spots exist for everybody. And I think that's part of, you might say that's part of our, should be part of our routine to be reflexive and think about what is it that I'm not seeing, what is it that I'm ignoring because I think that's the worst.
And then you find that you've made a mistake because you didn't know. And a lot of times, why did you not know what you didn't ask. And I've seen that happen to me in the classroom, you know, like my student that was from a different Spanish speaking country.
If I had probed a little further sooner I would have known that.
And you know, you can rationalize that and say, well, he was very quiet about it, blah, blah, blah. But the truth is, we should always be, I should always be intentional in that sense of always thinking about that.
What is it that I'm leaving out? What is it that I'm maybe not seeing? And so I think that's why that that practice of being reflexive is so important.
I think that we all agree, I think educators all agree that that's an important part of the practice.
You know, how did it go today? What, you know, and think about that. Okay, he said that. She looked this way. We said this, we did this. How did that go? And thinking and taking the time and a lot of times it's boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
And you have to take that time to do that. And then based on what you, you know, the feedback you give yourself, what am I going to do with that?
Yeah, what I do now?
Yeah. But having grace for yourself, yes. Having also, I think, grace for others, but yes.
And because I think when you fall into that trap of not doing, not being graceful with yourself, you can crash and burn and then kind of want to give up.
You know, I've had that day. Right, right. Yeah, I think we all have multiple times.
But yeah, and but I think that's also part of the model of pedagogy that is effective, that the teacher and the learner, I think Freda is the one that said it, you know, being dialogic in that sense of the learner is also the teacher and the teacher is also the learner.
There's not, there's a constant dialogue. So I made a mistake. See, you made a mistake. We all make mistakes. That's how we learn. So yeah.
Makes me think about the TED talk from Rita Pearson.
Oh, yes.
Have you ever said you're sorry to a kid when they look at you like they just can't even believe the fact that you were sorry?
That's right. Well, and I mean, let's be honest, when you become when you first you've overcome so many obstacles to become a first year teacher that first year in the classroom, you've got the power, man.
You've got, you know, you, you have some authority, some modicum of authority. And, and yeah, it's, it's hard to relinquish that and go, whoa, but that's, ah, yes, that's exactly what that grace is.
I talk a lot about individual student understanding and how important that is as much as we can to know our students. I know that looks very differently for different teachers for different reasons based on what they're teaching classroom sizes, etc.
But I think though the more that we can try to do that. And of course, individual student understanding that can be incorporated in your language arts class and your assignment in any classroom that you're doing that connects to a standard.
So it's not like you have to pause, take time out because we're already worried about time already, but really been able to have some sort of a space where we do get to know the students because now that I get to know you more, it's going to like now that I'm just getting to know you just right now in these short minutes that we've been together.
If you were my student and I were the teacher, I know that tomorrow I can have a better lesson for you connecting back to Spain and the Costa Rica and also to the language Spanish that you also speak and maybe connect that to a historical setting that will make this US history class a little bit easier for you to understand.
Absolutely. I think that that foundation, I mean, it's all relational and you know the longer time passes relationships grow, but they have to be invested in and they're based on what you learn and what you you know the exchange, the interconnectedness if you will.
So yeah, I think that I like to say after spending a year with a student, hopefully that student has my fingerprints all over him. Yes. And vice versa. Yeah, right.
Because you as a teacher, you're going to walk on and you know there's that student that stands out in your mind from X amount of years ago, and you use that to guide your practice because you yourself are changing.
You yourself should be evolving. Absolutely. We don't want to fossilize. No, no, no, no, no.
I really appreciate you being here at the conference I appreciate that you're going to share some awesome information that I really I really can't wait for Oklahomans to learn more from yourself that you continue to come back.
And then I hope that we can go and visit cross power you know for real for I think it's really, there's a lot of power in that and so I appreciate you, but I would like to give you just the last word of anything that you maybe have learned or takeaway or something
that is just really important to you that you would like to share with any listener out there who most likely is in the field of education, but also could be in any field, but knowing that culture is playing a role in what they do every day.
And most importantly within themselves overall, but is there anything just from your experiences, you would like to share I'm sort of gushing already but coming to a new place with new people that I've never met before that I don't know, but that have like minds to me in that culture is important.
And I think that respect and the importance of maintaining humanity and education is so evident and it just it warms my it gives me faith that I believe in education.
I believe in working together and so it's no surprise that here I am you know with a bunch of complete strangers and I love it. I feel part of it and I feel like we're on the same page and it's encouraging me, I'm going to go back to my own habits and I'm going to be like, man that felt really good.
So we fill our cups up again. Yes, yes, I had a principal, my first principal and I remember he said, you know teachers start out with a with a basket full of apples and handing out you know and I'm, I remember a first year teacher I was kind of rolling my eyes like oh
my gosh the apple analogy really come on. But he got to this point in the conversation where he said one day the teacher realizes the basket is empty. And that's a dangerous place he said you have to find a way to fill that basket up again.
And he looked at me and he's like you know Parkinson, different teachers fill their baskets in different ways, but you got to find a way to fill it. And I remember kind of dismissing it at the time going oh thank you. But as I've thought about it over the years, oh my gosh, a teacher with no apples in their
basket is a liability. And so I guess that to say, coming here has filled my basket up again, I can go back and give out some more apples. I think it's a great thing in education but I think specifically there's just a special something about multicultural
multilingual, education and the educators that come together. And so I think it's a it's a great opportunity for us to connect and find unity across the entire globe. And so I encourage everyone to go fill your baskets doing that, it would be fantastic.
Awesome. Well, Dr. Paul Parkinson, thank you so much for being here. We managed to have you as a guest on Cultural Connections Love. Thanks for coming to the conference.
We appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
Thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to like, follow and subscribe. Adios!