Welcome to Cultural Connections Lab. I'm your host Dr. Kelly Forbes. We are here to talk with educational professionals around the world to impact and influence the education system as we focus on cultural connections and the education of multilingual, diverse students.
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Hello, I am Taylor Tribble, your host for the day, standing in for Dr. Kelly Forbes, our main host. Why? Because we've got a big surprise today.
Your guest is normally our host. We've got today with us, Dr. Kelly Forbes, so we're flipping the script.
So hang on tight while I share Kelly's extensive and impressive bio.
Dr. Kelly Forbes, fondly known as Señor Calito, stands as a dynamic force in both the realm of education and performing arts.
With an illustrious career spanning over two decades, he has an advocate for inclusive education and an ardent champion for cultural diversity.
Driven by a profound belief in the power of unity through diversity, he continues to leave indelible mark on this world.
Since entering the field of education in 2008, Dr. Forbes has held a myriad of roles, each reflecting his unwavering commitment to advancing the lives of students and educators alike.
His impressive journey has seen him serve as a newcomer teacher, director of ELL facilitator, Title III director, instructional coach, assistant principal, dual language head principal, director of ESSER, elementary and secondary school emergency relief,
director of bilingual language education, and adjunct professor for a local university.
Throughout these diverse roles, he has tirelessly pursued the goal of providing every student with an equitable education, recognizing the pivotal role that cultural proficiency plays in achieving this noble aim.
Dr. Forbes' love for the arts as well has been a lifelong affair, dating back to his early childhood when he took his initial steps onto the stage at the tender age of three years old.
His journey through the world of performing arts reached a significant milestone when he was nine years old, he began dancing alongside his grandmother's dance group, the Happy Hoofers in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
This early exposure ignited a lifelong passion for acting, dancing, and singing, leading him to share his talents on stage across the globe.
From Branson, Missouri to Cairo, Egypt, and from Royal Caribbean Cruise Line stages in the Caribbean, Kelly has used his artistic talents to promote cultural exchange and create connections that have transformed, transcended borders.
In his beloved Oklahoma, Kelly continues to embrace the joy of dance, often partnering with Marty Rickman, his salsa dance partner, originally from Palmira, Columbia.
His dedication to dance and the arts, as experienced when he was awarded the title of Mr. Gay Oklahoma USA in 2011, as a testament to his belief in the power of art and culture to bridge gaps and create connections.
Dr. Forbes' dedication to equitable education goes beyond his professional roles.
He is certified from the Center for Applied Linguistics and Sheltered Instruction Observation Protocol, underlining his commitment to providing students with the best possible learning experiences.
He's also conducted research that delves into the vital role that cultural proficiency plays in ensuring that all students receive a fair and inclusive education.
Kelly firmly believes that diversity is the cornerstone of unity and intercultural connectivity enriches our lives immeasurably.
His guiding principle remains as simple as it is profound, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
With this motto, he strives to make each day the very best, recognizing that each new day heralds the beginning of the rest of our lives.
As a testament to his dedication to cultural diversity, Dr. Forbes is also the host of this podcast, Cultural Connections Lab, available at cultural, at many podcast providers, just search Cultural Connections Lab podcast.
Through this past platform he fosters discussions that promote understanding and appreciation of various cultures, helping to build bridges of empathy and connection in an ever diverse world.
Beyond his professional and artistic pursuits, Kelly is a loving fur daddy to three remarkable dogs, he splits his time between the vibrant communities of Oklahoma City and Tulsa, Oklahoma, where he continues to make a positive impact on the lives of those around him through his
commitment to education, art, and the simple yet profound act of treating others with kindness and respect.
With that, I am so happy to introduce to you the real, the amazing Dr. Kelly Forbes. Thank you so much for being with us today, Kelly.
I'm excited to be here. It's like full circle the very first podcast episode of the first season was me interviewing you.
Yeah, it was almost a year ago you interviewed me.
I'm excited to be here though on this side of it, it's fun.
Well, and so, you know, it was probably about a month ago I was thinking man, Kelly has got such an amazing story.
I can't do justice to being the host that you are but you deserve to be the guest at some point I mean you do such a great job helping other people tell your story so I'm going to do my best today to help you tell your story which is equally as amazing as everyone
else you've had on this podcast. Well honestly it was humbling that you asked I, it was, it was really really kind, truly so thanks for asking me and I'm truly honored to be here. I mean that. Thank you.
Yeah, it's gonna be so fun. Looking forward to it. You know, obviously we've known each other for quite some time now what is it.
I mean probably 15 years.
Yeah, so we've known each other for a while, and definitely call you a friend or respect you and respect all that you do for the community so thank you thank you thank you.
So, kind of, if you don't mind just taking us, taking us way back, Kelly you know I've known you 15 years which is a while but I've heard a lot about your upbringing some of the ups and downs that you've faced throughout life.
Do you mind just kind of taking us, taking us way back like tell us a little bit about your, your upbringing, some of your triumphs challenges struggles that you have faced, you know, just living around the world.
Yeah, well I, you know I feel really fortunate for for my past you know I always having just like this mindset of gratitude and thankfulness for the things that we experienced in this world and how we respond to and how we grow from that.
You know whenever there are you know really really great times and sometimes not so amazing times but no I mean I am originally just from Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I have two amazing grandparents like lovingly call them a papa and Kiki, I was younger
and tongue tied and I couldn't say granny or grandpa so it came out Kiki and Papa so that's how they became Kiki and Papa.
They are my amazing grandparents and 91 years old right now, and I just cherish them.
But you know about the story of why why why are you guys, why is your family in Oklahoma, how did it end up landed here and if I remember correctly you've got somewhat background story of languages other than English spoken in the family.
Yeah, yeah, well so you know I mean to be completely honest I'm not 100% sure what the entire story is about how my family came to Oklahoma. I wish that I knew more I know just bits and pieces but what I do know is that my grandmother's grandmother did speak
German and so my grandmother, she was able to understand German, they always read the Bible every night in German from the stories that my Kiki tells me.
And then of course now being 91 years old and just thinking back from 1932 whenever she was born until today.
And so the education system and society overall in general, there was no need for that German anymore and so they took it away and so now my grandmother always discusses how she wishes that she still knew German because she used to be able to understand it.
So that's how my entire family come over here from my mom's side and my dad's side. I'm not 100% sure to be completely honest, but I hear that my ancestry is German Dutch.
And I took German middle school but went back to Spanish in high school.
Show us what you got with the German.
I love you and I like ice cream. I mean that's what I remember.
The mistakes of your German.
Yeah, it's not I mean you know it's of course a few other you know words here and there but no I just it was so difficult for some reason middle school I went to a Catholic middle school.
And I had an amazing teacher Mrs. Clendera and I really really just loved her and respected her and I loved the class but for some reason German it was the first year was easy but German to an eighth grade was not it was just so hard.
And then at my high school they didn't offer German. So it was Latin, French or Spanish.
And I chose Spanish, fortunately, and so that was just, I don't know, for most of it but I'm gonna be on my just, I don't know I just loved it I just fell in love with it it was great, and had a wonderful teacher there as well.
Are you still are you still in touch with the teacher that any of those teachers from high school.
I am sometimes I am sin, sin, you know to add a concern is one of them there's also a Mr Bruce was an amazing that drama teacher, he was a really big mentor in my life also, there's a lot of teachers along the way that just made really big impacts on my life
and that I still have friendships with today, today, yeah, really really special ones.
And so you are raised from correct primarily by your grandparents but your parents live in the Tulsa area as well. Correct. Well, I do come from, you know, divorced parents like many of our friends out there do and so at three years old my parents were divorced and so I did
grow up with a great wonderful childhood I have so much love and respect for everyone in my family, but the reality with that though also comes with, you know, every other weekend going back and forth.
You miss out on things that you want to do here and you want to do there and I think that anyone that's been in a vulnerable space can can admit that a lot of adult feelings, get in the way of maybe what could potentially be best for the child at the time but going back
and forth every other weekend and flying back and forth every other weekend or two weeks in June and two weeks in August and balancing all that out and dropped off midnight at Christmas and things of that nature like that's a whole lot.
And so I grew up growing up, just in general. And so throughout that I was, you know, I always had time with my with my amazing mom and my awesome dad and like I mean, it's so wonderful that I have those relationships but the constants that were always there for me, where my
dad really nurtured this love for travel for education, I always thought I was going to go to college I never, I never thought there was another option not to go that was always just the plan and so my grandparents had me in basketball and sports and I remember
my papa would come and I'd feel so excited whenever he would be in the crowd and be like way to go hot shot. They would call me Viper because I would like zigzag in and out but that's because I was also in dance class and so not only was I doing sports but I was doing dance and
I wish I could see that man to travel imagine you run around the court. Yeah, I mean I used to be good and I am not anymore. I could probably still be the Viper in and out but don't count on me to make the free.
You're not going to get the free throw with me.
You're still that you're still the Viper. That's my, I might get you in the game of pig or horse. I don't know.
It's more recreational now. Dancing on the other hand I'm still enjoying that though with with Marty.
You can beat me at that for sure.
Let's go to the dance competition.
Yeah, my wife, let's do that.
Yeah, why not. I mean I need to you know my what my wife was telling me about some studies she's read on impact of dance like for especially for people with aging doing dance really helps with memory and can kind of stave off any memory issues might have.
Yeah, I mean, the happy. I mean I'm getting old man you're gonna have to start teaching me I'm gonna have to figure this out.
So, my grandmother never did dance until she was in her 60s and 60s.
The average age was 65 the happy of hers at the time. And then, and then getting to dance with them was amazing but it's true. Well I mean it really does help with agility and with memory.
Dance is very, very good for you. Yeah, let's let's let's get it started after I get this MBA.
Then I'll start taking to make taking dance classes. If you would, out of curiosity you know you've mentioned your is it great grandmother who spoke German.
So that would be my great great grandmother. Okay. So does, so that would have been your grandmother's grandmother. Yes.
Does your grandmother talk to us Kiki talk at all about, like, learning German or does she have any recollection recollection of using the language with her grandmother.
Yeah, I mean, mainly the story always centers around just reading the Bible at night, that she, you know, I don't believe that she ever really had like the oral fluency that she would have wanted to have that she was still able to yeah you know speak and communicate,
but it was mostly just the understanding always hearing her grandmother, speaking in German, you know, and I think that that that they always say sometimes whenever you speak more than one language that sometimes whenever you say things that have a whole lot of emotion
behind it like I love you for example that you end up saying it in the cut in the language that you're most comfortable most familiar with because that's where that emotional connection is.
And so I kind of always wonder like, what does that, what does that translate to whenever my grandmother, you know, is speaking about her, her grandmother in in English and explaining things that she would say whenever her grandmother was saying it though in
German, and how much of that emotional part am I maybe missing out on because my grandmother can't really tell me in German what was being said and nor would I be able to understand that if she.
Well, I mean, I guess if she did speak German I would be able to speak German too so then therefore, that would have been passed down to me, and I could be charling will at this point.
Yeah, I'm just curious if
obviously there we always hear these stories about people being discouraged or punished for using a language other in English and I'm just curious if that she shared any experience like that.
You know, I.
So, I don't think that so in the area where my grandmother grew up, which was in the Dakotas area.
Okay, it was.
I mean, I mean, Kiki will tell me stories about, you know,
different cultures that were represented at the time, the majority still being, you know, a white culture, but just expressing how from her memory and what she remembers through this is that
there wasn't so there wasn't any disdain or anything everyone really really got along worked well, but it was more where there were more populated areas that that she would hear of different stories so I don't know for sure and I can't
necessarily speak for her either but I think in her experiences that there was a lot more harmony overall among people that she was around at least from her view at that time.
Well, then, then it wasn't really passed down.
Yeah, just wasn't grand grandmother was growing up she would hear it, but it wasn't.
And if she heard it now she wouldn't. Yeah, she wouldn't understand any of it. And that's the thing you know you use it or lose it. But just you know whenever whenever you consider how you know part of what part of your language part of what you speak is
really connected to your soul and who you are and having part of that being taken away. You just think why. And so then you consider you know even current and right now in 2024 that there are states that are either a, you know,
trying to take away dual funding for dual language education programs for example or heritage language programs but then you have other states that are, you know, the, their local government is trying to add more money to it.
And so I you know you just think why would you, why would you want to take away anything from anyone and be subtracted why not just be more additive so they still have what you already wanted them to have but they have more.
Right. Yeah.
We say more in 24 but it's like except for that. Sometimes, let's just add to it.
Exactly. You and I both know the benefits of bilingualism.
So,
being bilingual obviously yes. It's awesome. It's amazing and I am thankful that I was able to ever get this opportunity.
Yeah. So I guess that take take me now from the Viper, you know, zigzag and on the court Viper now right. That's right.
Cal Calito Viper Viper.
Yeah, be bare.
I don't even know Viper, what is Viper.
Viper it's gonna be the name, we're just going to say Viper.
I know I'm going to get you a hat.
So, take us from zigzagging on the court to how the heck did you know, like everybody now that I'm with when I'm when I'm with you and meet other people they're like they're, they're just convinced you're from another country you're not from the US because
your Spanish is impeccable. You got the accents. I mean, it's like you can trick so many people if you were talking on the phone they weren't looking at you they would know for sure you're like from another country.
How did Mr. Kelly Viper Forbes.
You know, pale, pale skin.
A little more tan and blonde hair.
A blonde hair blue. How is it that you became that grew to have the passion for language and became proficient in Spanish. Well, I think this speaks to two things one, how a teacher can really change your viewpoint your insight and really give you this real sense of
intrinsic motivation of wanting to, to learn more about a culture and a language and that was in your applicants and so I am forever indebted for her to her for that.
On the flip side though I also again that was in high school, living with my, my grandparents, and they encouraged me and nurtured me and I never ever, ever heard from them.
You can't do that, or you shouldn't do that or what if you don't get or it was just assumed that, I mean they just were so encouraging so whenever you had an encouraging teacher and then you had to encouraging grandparents, allowing you to find ways to not only fall in
love with the language and the culture, but then to help you find ways to raise money to get to go to Spain on EF tours at the time for 21 days in Spain, come back pass on a level of Spanish to go into a higher level of Spanish to finally get to AP Spanish by
senior year I mean I just, I just couldn't get enough of it. I mean this is, I mean, Danny listener do not do this but I was the one that was driving to school with my knees doing my flashcards on three by five days a week.
I was driving with my knees doing my flashcards on three by five index cards while listening to fun is, you know, reading la letra de sus canciones of the lyrics of the songs, learning words at the same time.
Wow, because I love it.
Yeah, and why drive test I'm not leaving them.
You should not do that but we'll don't do it, but say what I can though, I mean, I was in the most loving way possible back a nerd, a big Spanish nerd and so not only was I just this really big drama and I loved it so much president of the drama club president
or in the Spanish Honor Society was invested in this, but senior Atkins, I would write her letters, other kids would write other kids letters no not me. They have a kid in the my extra, I was writing the teacher, a letter and be like, so you're a Atkins, Joe thing can't I love you,
which is like so incorrect and so she would correct it and say like, they get out and being man canta, you know, something else and like but she would like respond to the message corrected at the same time like it's some homework assignment and she would just like,
feed it into me all the time. And we don't know for sure she, I don't know if she's still in Oklahoma which I don't, I don't think so I think she might be in the Carolina somewhere but sometimes I catch her.
I hope she gets to listen to this.
Well, I'll have to, you know, I'll have to send her this link for sure so a big shout out to to Senora Atkins I mean yeah she was such a great, such a great teacher, for sure.
Well yeah, and that's kind of, as you said, represents what one person can do for the life of a child and so I mean,
she allowed me to speak to all these different continents to meet all these different people that never wanting to even get into education now you're in education and now you get to even know your students better and their families better.
I mean it changes your entire life. And so, it, I mean, you can't help but just have a heart full of gratitude for that.
Absolutely. That's so cool.
So yeah, we're gonna we're gonna have to find her, make sure that she, she's she's watching this, we might have to make her a surprise special guest one day.
I think so.
I can hear it say Gailito, I Gailito, she would always laugh, and that's how I got that nickname Gailito, Gailito Concarino is that in class, you know, back then, you had to I graduated high school in 2002.
So, in 1998, there I am in high school class and you have to pick your name from the list what Spanish name you have. I don't recommend that, but that's what was happening then. So anyhow, I had picked Julio.
That still happens.
I remember, anyway, I remember Senora Atkins even saying like, I don't even remember the kids real names I just know them by their Spanish names because we would come in and say, did you hear about so and so?
She was like, who's that? What's their Spanish name? I mean, just anyway.
But I had picked Julio and she goes, you know, you're not Julio, you're a little Gailito Concarino, like you're not a Julio, you're a little Kelly with love.
That's how Gailito started.
And then we transformed to Gailiente.
Well that was another friend from high school.
I remember, yes, she got me Kelly in there. So then, so that ended up being an adult stage name Kelly Kelly in there.
So funny.
You are on fire.
So you finished school high school in 2002. So that's probably, you know, maybe five, six years before we meet what happens in between that time.
Okay, so graduate high school, and I go to the University of Central Oklahoma, where I am going to be a dance major and a Spanish major ended up transferring to OCU to be a double major as well.
And in that process I was going to have to minor in Spanish and major in dance and I finally decided that I wanted to just go ahead and major in Spanish because I felt like I could get a job dancing, no matter what, as long as I was good enough in the audition, they didn't
necessarily care about a degree.
If you were the better dancer, you would get the job regardless but for Spanish if I were ever going to use Spanish, I would have to have a piece of paper that proved as a native English speaker that I had some level of competency to be able to do anything with Spanish.
I did just that finished my degree from the from Oklahoma City University in Spanish, and in that meantime I was able to go study abroad in Rosario, Argentina, for a semester.
And that was also just an incredible amazing experience.
I mean, everything was just like, what is going on? So that was just a really fun experience as well and I remember calling my grandparents saying, I like crying because I couldn't understand everyone like I could, you know, from the more, you know, Mexican type of Spanish that I was used to and where I lived in Oklahoma.
And my grandmother basically just was like, just suck it up.
Like, get over it, you're going to stay there and you're going to finish this. And that was one thing that my grandparents always instilled in me, whatever you start, you better finish.
And anyhow so I got over it and I stayed.
And right before that though, I had auditioned for Tokyo Disney.
And I got the job right after I found out I got the scholarship to go to Argentina for a semester.
And I had to make a decision. Well, it was because I was going to go live in Tokyo.
And I was going to get paid at that time $900 a week, which was, you know, just so much money for a college student.
And they paid for your room and board and you go to study for something else. But I knew because it was a year contract and then, you know, possibly renewed, I would, would I ever go back and finish my degree.
And again, I thought, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? And so I went ahead and I moved forward, finished the degree, obviously went to Argentina instead of Tokyo.
And I'm glad that I didn't right after I graduated. A friend of mine from college, he texted or emailed me or something and he said, hey, one of the dancers got injured and won't be able to do our contract.
And they're looking for a quick person to get on this cast before we go to Hollywood, Florida and rehearse.
He goes, do you want to, are you interested? So I was like, sure. So I sent in a DVD at the time I had like this prop up camera.
They had to like push record and run away, you know, like there was no iPhone recording this.
Anyhow, made this compilation and then sent that over to Royal Caribbean and got the call that I got the job and moved over to this.
So this is the cruise job. This was the cruise job.
I like your story. You've told me. I remember you talking about like how that even became an interest.
You might tell a little about like the holiday with your grandparents and like how you even became interested in working on the cruise line.
Well, so starting from the beginning of this, like so when I started dancing, yeah, at three years old, it was never, it started.
Miss Pam. It's so funny how you all sort of remember these names, but Miss Pam was the teacher somewhere near near the Tulsa area.
And anyhow, but whenever I was around nine years old, my Kiki was dancing with the Happy Hoofers and the teacher, Phyllis, she tapped on Kiki and she said, look and look behind.
And I was in Kiki's high heel top shoes doing the same steps behind them that the Happy Hoofers were doing in practice at the YWCA at the time.
And so Kiki was like, I better put him in dance class. So she puts me in dance class and she's thinking, oh my gosh, like this is going to be so horrible whenever he goes to school tomorrow because we ran into another student from Kelly's school.
And they're going to make so much fun of him and everything whenever he goes to school tomorrow. And Kiki said, you went into school the next day and you said, guess what, everybody, I am in dance class.
I'm so excited.
Kiki said no one could make fun of you because you were so excited and so proud of what you were doing. She said so everyone was just like, okay, cool, you know.
That conviction you've got has some influence for sure.
Well, I mean, I loved it. I loved it was so much fun. I mean, I was having the best time.
And anyhow, but so then there's that love for dance though.
To your point about the holiday stories, I am, I just, I really was, I got old enough and I was able to just say out loud to my grandparents, I'm really tired of being dropped off at 1159 on Christmas Eve and picked up at midnight on Christmas Day.
And I just, I mean, it wasn't fun. And then you didn't, you're like, and you don't want to make any comparisons at all to like, you know, people that go through this through a cultural lens.
But there's like this little bit of like this Venn diagram that you never like really feel a part of this never really feel like a part of that, because you can't like you don't even know the whole family over here but you can't stay with the whole family that you do know over here and you're trying to go back and
forth and there's, it's just, it just didn't feel good after a while you know as good as I really, you know, wanted Christmas to be didn't feel like home.
And so whenever I kind of expressed this to to my grandparents.
That's whenever this idea came well what if we like, what if we went on a Christmas cruise.
We didn't worry about gifts or anything we just saved the money went on a Christmas cruise, and we would invite everyone to come with us and if they wanted to come they can come but if not not but we're going to go.
And so we just would go every single year, and not until as a like maybe the last and that we haven't been on one in many years now but maybe the last three, we had people would join us.
But before that it would just be the three of us on all these Christmas cruises and so it was just so much fun to get away and it was the whole fun experience and there was no being dropped off or pushed or you just like you just got to be there and it was just
felt good and comfortable and happy and fun, but we both love the shows Kiki and I pop it to the three of us would always go to the shows we love the shows that Kiki would always like, she would always lean over and she taught me she was like, one day
I'm going to see you dancing up there. One day I'm going to see you dancing up there. And I just, I thought how cool would that be I mean I just thought wow to live on a cruise ship to do this.
And then they actually were able to come and see me on the cruise ship like that happened in real life was incredible. And they had prepped us on the cruise, saying like if you're going to have anybody come because you can't fraternize with any guests or anything
you have to fill out this form and do this and do that I mean a lot a lot of rules and policy. It's international waters I mean it's maritime like there's a lot that you have to do.
So I got so nervous so I called my grandparents said hey, just in case you guys come or do anything at all I have to do this this this will give me plenty of a heads up well they were coming on that first cruise and they're trying to surprise me.
They're trying to tell me and break the surprise so I can make sure to get everything done. But anyhow so it was so great that they actually got to come. So how this was after you started the job how long after you started the day.
Well, I mean, I started the job and it was probably about a few months of rehearsal and then we went to the cruise ship and so this was after the cruise ship so from getting on the cruise ship and tell them coming was about a week.
Because we had a kidding. We had a transition cruise with the old cast and so then they got off and we did our show. So on the very first night that we had a show was my birthday.
Also, and the first time that my grandparents got to see me from the audience up there.
And like it all came true. Yeah, yeah, it was really cool.
So, so like a side note that like the artistic side of things.
I'm thinking about a part of one of the numbers were in this one so we had three shows. So this isn't our second show, we get to this one part though and I'm thinking, oh my gosh is to this song called he's a dream.
And it's one of the ladies and she's, she's singing about this, you know, this guy who's a dream so like we can't touch her it's like essential number, and I'm thinking, oh my goodness, we rip our pants off in this number.
And my grandparents are in the audience.
So we get to the part I'm thinking, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I'm like, okay, the show must go on. So, you know, this is years ago and you know, full six pack then rip the shirt open, pull the pants off, I got, you know, combat boots, booty short on, dance into he's a dream on Royal Caribbean cruise line.
Right in front of the great and they just clap bigger than anybody else.
That's awesome though that they so supportive of you always there. Yeah, yeah, I mean, they, they really took me all around the United States every summer, took me to the performing arts center to watch shows took me to the basketball games the football
games and baseball games and museums and art and really just tried to give me so many opportunities to be exposed to so much so that way I could really, you know, investigate more of what I was passionate about and then they just really nurtured that all the time.
Yeah, I just can't never think of enough for that.
Yeah, yeah, you're highlighting again, importance of guardians and teachers, adults that invest to make a difference that believe and love, love, love you for who you are.
Exactly. You have those people for sure.
And we will be right back.
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So that leads us up to probably close to when we met I mean, it had to have been, I don't remember. You're like you said 2008 ish you know.
Yeah, so you're you're you're working on the cruise. How many years did you work on the cruise line.
Two years.
Okay. So then we have a mutual connection that I was working for Oklahoma City Public Schools at the time, I didn't know of Kelly Forbes never heard your name.
And I was a nobody back then.
I mean you weren't a nobody. I was I was a nobody, because I didn't know you. Now I'm a somebody because I know you.
So, you know, I, it was just kind of in passing out when I was working at the administration office I was out at one of our schools visiting and mutual connection mentions that, you know, he knew somebody that's working on a cruise line that's looking to get into teaching and wondered if I knew of any jobs available for, you know, he told me that you were bilingual.
And so I just happened to know that Taft Middle School in Oklahoma City was looking for a newcomer teacher in their English learner program.
And I chatted with the principal and said, Hey, you know, I know of somebody that's looking for a job and so I was kind of promoting you without knowing you so I didn't know like, how was going to turn out.
Obviously, take it take us kind of on your perspective how that all happened like you why why did you decide to get off the cruise line and tell us about the interview and kind of the for us the rest is history.
Yeah, so I, the cruise ship was wonderful. And so I was about to finish my very first contract and I got a phone call from a friend of mine who worked in the modern languages department at Oklahoma City University and she said hey, so our mutual contact.
And I also graduated from there and so he had called and said hey, if you if you university if you know anybody who could come and take a position that I'll be leaving, you know, let me know so that's how I got a phone call, saying hey this one school is looking for
permanent substitute for Spanish, and it was right in between my cruise ship contracts it didn't overlap or anything and I needed a job in the meantime, and I thought well this would kind of be perfect I'll use my Spanish degree.
And I'll just go ahead and do that and go back on the cruise ship so I did that ended up falling in love with education and teaching middle school especially I feel like I'm mature enough to still be good at my job and immature enough to be immature
with them.
And not have it bother me.
So we knew we had we had a really fantastic time.
And, and so, after.
After that they offered me a full time job at that school but I had to go back on the cruise ship so I went back on the cruise ship, finish that contract but I wanted to have a couch and a dog and a car and I wanted to do things that I couldn't do on the cruise ship so I decided
to go ahead and maybe now that I had this little taste of education and I really did enjoy it, I'm going to look into that because I really want to go back and do that.
And so, I had to be fortunate to get the position over at Taft. And so, I'm being, being there, and being the newcomer teacher, working with six through eighth grade students representing seven countries and eight different languages.
It was interesting because, you know, not I mean having this conversation with you reflecting back on that. I mean, our number one, you know expectation rule whatever was respect because again we had so many diverse backgrounds and cultures and religions
I mean, everything of life and even just like lived experiences were so different.
And so like even their constructivist views of like what was happening in this
moment, having culture shock and everything just had to be so incredibly vast and
wild in ways that I didn't even understand and still can understand, but can,
you know, reflect upon in a deeper way now analyze that than I could before.
But then I also consider like, you know, how my background, I think, led me to a
situation to kind of be able to, to have a mindset that was, that was really going
to be great. Like we were good for each other at the time. I mean, I like in
Spanish, you know, nada pasa por casualidad. Like, like basically like everything kind
of happens for a reason. And I'm really glad that this did happen because I came
from a background where I went to a Lutheran school, a Baptist school, a
Methodist school, a Catholic school, a non-denominational school, a Lutheran
church, Baptist church, baptized Lutheran, baptized Baptist, went to a
Methodist university, a public university, took world religions courses.
Kiki jokingly says like, you're surely getting to heaven. Some would probably
disagree, but I really, I really hope so. Right. And so, you know, and not only
that, but also traveling across the country, having experience in Cairo, Egypt,
working on the cruise ship, where there were so many different languages and
cultures and religions, et cetera. And the cruise director at the end of the
cruise would even say to all of us on the very last, like, like whenever we
were about to go back to dock and everyone's going to get off and it's
like the saddest day of the cruise and have this farewell show and you know,
everyone's crying because they've all made friends, but he makes a really good
point. At the end of the cruise, he would always say, isn't it amazing to see that
we have all these and he wouldn't list like the hundred and something, 143
different countries on this ship and we all get along. Why can't it be like that
whenever we get back to land? And so you're like, I saw, I entered this
classroom and I'm thinking I'm traveling the whole world within these four walls
in the exact same way with these students that are from seven different
countries, again, representing eight different languages with all of their
backgrounds and just how I'm so fortunate that I was able to have such a diverse
background with thought processes regarding, you know, religion. I mean,
even in high school, I was a senior class chaplain and then also being able to now
this is, you know, after my work over at TAP with the newcomer students, but even
living in Bangkok, Thailand, and just learning about all the different
religions around me and just the, you know, the beauty within them and like the
true goals and aspirations that people have to really show love and kindness and
respect for each other. So it was just, it was interesting just to go back right
now, talking through this with you and reflecting upon how my background and
the backgrounds of these students just kind of paired and coupled so perfectly
at the time. I was new in what I was doing, they were new in what they were
doing. And I didn't have really any, you know, help or support a whole lot, to be
completely honest. But I, but I did at the same time, but like, but in my
planning, like, what are you really doing for a class that's gonna look like I had
no idea. So all I knew was show business. So everything was a show, a project and
hands on, and then you start, you know, learning more about what you're really
supposed to know about already. And I was like, Oh, I'm really good at project
based learning. I was doing that. But it was the arts, it was the liberal arts,
that really prepared me to be able to be a teacher without having any formal
training to be a teacher. And then you've asked for it today. And you know,
going going through just my work history that was mentioned before up until now,
and having this, you know, a doctoral degree in this is just something that I
never fathom that would happen. People would say, do you want to be a, what are
you going to do with your Spanish? Want to be a teacher? I said, Never. I said, I
want to be a dancing by the equal veterinarian, right? Like, you heard that
a million times. And then, and then I thought, you know, I, I, then I was the
teacher. And then I thought, well, I need to get, you know, some help. And then I
got a free master's through with, you know, the seeds cohort. Well, with the
grant and sounds like, okay, so I did that. And then do you want to get your
doctorate degree? No, no way. Here I am.
We've got a lot of similarities in that way.
Appreciation and experience other cultures, religions, languages really, I
think, expands your horizon and, and can help you have a broader impact like you
have. I mean, you there were from the day you started, I heard about Kelly Forbes
classroom and how amazing it was and the connections you were making with
students. And look, I loved going into your classroom visiting a few times that
I was able to do it while you were there at Taft. And I remember you even made
the paper with your, with your dog,
the therapy to our one. So what was that? I know, man. So you've had so many
wonderful, amazing opportunities. But I'm curious to know a little bit more about
some of the struggles, maybe personally, or as an educator, maybe stories that
you might be willing to share that you remember with students that kind of
highlight some of the challenges that educators and just individuals in
general face today in the environment we are living in and some of the
unconscious cultural biases and policy constraints that create barriers for
educators and students to succeed.
It's, you know, whenever I first entered the field of education in around 2008,
and then looking back and I, I'm trying to remember, I think, I was in the
middle of the year, and I'm trying to remember, who was it we had another
podcast interview with, maybe Luis, and I think her and I both began an
education around the same time and we had had a conversation about how
different it feels today in education and it definitely has, you know, we've
had, laws, different legalities have changed, you know, leadership,
politics, leadership at national levels within the USDE and even local levels.
There's so much has changed and there's so much good that has happened, but
there's, there's still so many barriers that continue to keep, you know, popping
up sometimes. And so, whenever, whenever you just consider overall the national
conversation around, around education, it's, it's become so, so noisy with
things that just don't, just aren't happening, just really blown out of
proportion, you know, and from my opinion, right, this is from my
constructivist point of view, from my lived experiences and my realities.
And so, there's just so much to celebrate in education and there's so much good
that's going on and that's really what I want to focus on in education.
But with that, you have to, you have to face some of the realities of things
that are happening and, and, you know, education has always been political and
it just shouldn't be.
I mean, from, from the beginning of it, you know, how it began, why it began, the
way it began, the, the time, I mean, I mean, go back and read, you know, the
historical perspective of, of education in the United States and, you know, even
testing and assessment in the United States and what that looks like.
But then you fast forward to today and I, I think it's, I think it's difficult
sometimes for, for leaders because there's kind of, there's a, there's a
high mobility rate and a high transition rate of not just students, but educators.
Educators are rotating in and out leadership, therefore sometimes rotating
in and out, we've come out of a pandemic as well.
There's a whole lot of stress and pressure.
And so I am identifying in places where I am currently serving that not
necessarily because of the transition of leadership, but yet sometimes it is that.
But then most often because of the amount of emergency certified teachers that
are still, you know, honing their crafts as well at the same time, that it's, it's
been difficult for those educators to understand on a very deep level, how do
you really include culturally proficient practices, culturally responsive practices,
a culturally inclusive curricula, pedagogical practice that helps with
content and language and culture all at the same time.
And so whenever I've been having these conversations lately, the principals
have said, Hey, we need that basics.
We just need the basics because we've had such a high turnover rate this year.
We have brand new teachers, emergency certified.
We just need the basics.
And so I go in with what I consider some of the basics, but then it's really
like basics basics and it takes me back to whenever I first began.
I mean, I didn't even know how to create a lesson plan.
I didn't have to do anything.
I didn't have any support.
I was alternatively certified.
I had my degree.
I passed the test and needed to pass, but then I got in there and the
application of what I was supposed to be doing, I didn't know how to
put that into real life.
And now you fast forward today and we're seeing, you know, an example
that I had within myself and I'm grateful that I was able to learn from that and
better myself and move forward professionally.
But now we have massive numbers.
I mean, almost, almost 4,500 up to the upwards 5,000 numbers of emergency
certified teachers alone in, in Oklahoma.
That that's a whole lot.
Whenever you consider the students that are being served, the families
that are being served, and then leadership meeting, needing to be
able to understand federal requirements, translation interpretation
requirements, civil rights, department of justice, plus understanding
you know, for your language assessment test with your state testing that
you have the standards that you're going to be teaching, how that correlates.
Being culturally inclusive, following your title one, title three requirements.
It's just, it's a whole, and then you have this whole discussion that's
going around that you can't talk about certain things.
And so I, you know, and that's currently happening in Oklahoma.
And I think it's sometimes I mean, I giggle to myself.
I think it's very difficult.
If I can't talk about diversity, equity and inclusion, but yet I'm
talking about multilingual multicultural students in my training, who are diverse,
who need equitable access to education and then you need an inclusive environment.
Right.
Is that okay?
Please.
And so, so if I have this, this, this level of expertise and experience as
I'm still growing and learning from my mistakes every single day.
But as I continue growing and doing that, I have to think and be empathetic
and compassionate for the, for the leader out there or the teacher out there that
doesn't have the same level of background who has, you know, a heart for our
multilingual multicultural students and for all of our students for that matter.
You know, even they're, they're next up to be Mr. Gay students, right?
Like, I mean, I was, I had those teachers that were trying to help me at
Metro Christian Academy that were, you know, really loving toward me.
I don't know how that would look today in school, you know, across the nation.
I, you know, I can give you ideas of what that looks like now, but, you know,
these conversations that we're trying to have about having these culturally
inclusive and responsive classrooms and, and how we treat our families and how
our stakeholders, we have them involved in this whole idea of inclusivity gets
to be muddled in such a way through technical terms and potential legalities.
And I mean, even just the other day, I was being told how books that have two
dads in them were being taken out of the library as being told to me.
And it just felt like this weird moment of like thinking, like for me and my
partner, if we were to have a child foster a child, adopt a child, have our
own, that the version of our story is taken out of the library from people
that know and respect you and love you on a personal level, but professionally
have to erase you.
Yeah.
I don't know.
That probably doesn't even answer the question.
That is just all around.
It does.
I wasn't looking for a canned response.
I'm just curious.
Cause I know we've been talking about all the good things that happen.
You're very good at staying positive, but I think there are some, sometimes
elephants in the room, some things, some things that aren't quite as shiny and
rosy as they might see.
And we're all experiencing it and teachers experiencing it.
And I think it's important to that.
We recognize it, talk about it and talk about how we can, what are some things
we can do practically to break down these barriers?
What can we do to make a difference?
What can teachers do to make a difference?
What can I do to make a difference, to make things better?
Well, I mean, be engaged in the conversation, do your homework and do
your research, know what's going on for real.
So you can make really informed decisions, not only in your daily
practices, but in your future conversations and also at the voting booth.
That would be the number one thing.
Cause I talked to so many people and they, that they're not, they're not
engaged in the conversation because they either, A, don't have children in
the education system.
B, they feel like it doesn't matter anyway.
They don't really have a voice C, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, whatever
that, you know, reason might be.
But you, you, you just need to be engaged in the conversation.
Um, and, and with that being said, you know, there are so many great amazing
things that are happening in our classrooms today.
And I see those and those, those, those moments and they're, they're
really, really incredible.
But I also hear from teachers and leaders that are having a lot of
difficulty and a lot of pushback of trying to do what we know to be right.
What we know to even be legal and what you would assume to be a moral
imperative to do for the sake of, of the education of a child.
Right.
Um, but to answer your question specifically, boy, like practical things
that we can do.
Yeah.
I mean, maybe even inside the classroom for teachers that are listening, like
what, what, what can they do on a day-to-day basis, a weekly basis that,
you know, you're going to talk about going back to the basics.
What are some of those?
I know we could, this could be a podcast for hours, you know, classes
on this, but if you're like three things, three things, like what can all
educators do in the classroom that are really going to make a difference?
Well, I will.
So I will.
I mean, if you, I'll give you one, I'll give you one thing, because I think
that's one thing can incorporate a wetter appetite.
It's the, it's, it's the one thing that I think would make, I think it's, and
it's what I really focus on most whenever I'm doing any of my professional
development or my trainings.
And, and it might be a small part of like the presentation, but it's the
through line of everything that we do.
I need to know my students.
So it's the individual student understanding.
Who are you even talking to?
And not just on your, you know, your teacher student level in that
classroom and what only happens in there, but try to understand like, what
are the students likes?
What are their dislikes?
What does success mean to them?
What are their future goals?
What are trials and tribulations doing an activity of, of affirmations for
your students and seeing how they affirm themselves.
And then, you know, I wish my teacher knew that activity, for example, and
you learned things that you didn't even know about your students.
And so the more that you know, your students, and it really becomes
this cohesive, you know, energy in your classroom where everyone
feels like they are safe and that they belong and you can create that sense of
belonging, everything else follows.
You can figure out the best ways to communicate with their families.
You can figure out the best sheltered instruction practice, dual language
practice, just regular good teaching practice that that's needed for that child.
Just because you got to know them more.
But I feel like whenever we understand more of our students' backgrounds,
their assets, what they bring to the table, and just a little bit more about
who they are as the little human beings or maybe big 12th grade human beings,
for that matter, in our classrooms, that we really treat them as special as they
are and that we get to know them.
And so just underscoring the importance of the relationships that we have is
great, but underscoring even a little bit deeper into how do I know these
children individually?
And you can do that, and it takes time and it takes effort.
And the teachers that do that, they have true, distinct and special
relationships with their students in the same way that they do with their
students.
And so I think that's the same way that it impacted me so much to want to take
on the opportunity that was given to me to learn a whole entire another language
and languages within the language of Spanish, as well as all the different
cultures that's just opened up my whole entire life because the teacher took
time to know me.
Mr. Bruch and drama class took time to know me.
And they did that not with just me.
You saw that with all the other students and then you know the teachers that
didn't.
And so I think that's the framework that I had created from my research, the
integrated cultural language and proficiency framework.
But I feel like that not only understanding cultural proficiency and
what are our principles and our barriers and how do we work through that for
really healthy practices to be culturally proficient and not destructive,
having that mindset.
But I feel like the main thing that we can do is to take the time and the
consideration to really get to know our students.
And the best way possible just to better teach them, serve them and offer
more exposure.
The way you'll be able to connect with them and motivate them to learn really.
So you're right.
That is it is the one thing it really it kind of reminds me a little bit.
I told you a few weeks ago, I was at Disney Institute learning kind of key
components of customer service.
And there's a quote I learned there that relates a little bit to the
conversation, you know, thinking of customers, employees as an asset and
that any problem that comes up, I think too often we think that if a problem is
not our fault, then we don't want to deal with it.
If your students problems are not your fault and there's no need to engage and
get involved.
But they had this quote that really stuck with me that said it may not be
our fault, but it is our problem.
And I think that's one of the challenges that we face when working with students.
Too often we think, well, that problem that they have is not our fault.
But it's not our fault that they're going through what they're going.
But it is our problem.
It's our problem to learn and understand and then through the relationships like
you're talking about, as we build those relationships, that's when we can really
impact the student on a much bigger level.
Well, we want to have collective impact, right?
And we also want to have, you know, collective efficacy in what we're doing.
And I've mentioned this before, but it goes back to just, you know, making
other people's dreams come true.
If we all, you know, trying to make our dreams come true, but also other
people's dreams come true, it all helps and benefits everybody.
And so whenever we have students that need a lot of support with their
language skills and teachers only have access to content standards, but even
in leadership, there's no discussion about how do all teachers have access
to those language standards as well to couple that together, you know, it
creates an environment where I teach these standards, you teach those
standards, and then you teach those kids.
And then this other research to happen, and it doesn't become that
collective front anymore because you're right.
Like it may not be like, you know, it's not like, you know, it's not
be like, it's like go into that professional development training.
And the teacher turns to me and she's as we're walking down the hallway and
she goes, oh, we're going to a training for your students.
I'm like, no, they're, they're, they're our students.
Okay.
And, but it, I mean, it really does take all of us to be reaching across
these hallways into the other classroom to have this collective impact about,
Hey, what can I do in my lesson to help support what you're needing that
child to know in their classroom?
And what can you do to help me as well?
Because we're trying to help the holistic child.
I'm not only working with their social studies side, and then you're only
going to work with their language arts side.
And then we'll let the language acquisition teacher have their side.
I mean, this isn't like a game of operation.
I mean, it's like all of us, you know, need to come together as, as a team,
as a department, as whatever that looks like in your professional setting
though, but we all need to understand the, as much as possible, as humanly
possible, the most that we can about these students to collectively work
together for, for their success.
I think part of that challenge of the collaboration, collective
collaboration, I think is that we so often self-segregate and isolate
ourselves into political groups or opinion groups, whatever it might be.
So just curious if you have any recommendations for kind of what,
what are some things that we might be able to do?
You and I, both the relievers and people working with people of all
backgrounds, whether, whether they have the same opinions or beliefs that I
do, what are some, some, do you have any recommendations or things that
you've seen successful for helping build that collective mindsets?
So that everybody's working together on the same goal in education,
because fundamentally you're right.
Like if we can't figure this out and get all, all together on the same boats,
then it's going to be very difficult to successfully educate our students.
I guess the question, do you have, you know, recommendations that help,
how, how do, how people of all different beliefs and opinions might be able to
work together for a common goal in education?
I think that is a very great question.
And also a kind of a loaded question at the same time.
I think there's many ways to answer this.
I'll start with one, our culturally proficient journey begins with us.
Knowing ourselves as much as possible, asking yourselves questions about,
you know, what are your values?
What are your core beliefs?
Who are you?
What do you believe in?
And going from there, as we start to learn about others and ourselves,
other cultures and our culture, and really, you know, trying to understand
what are our prejudices, our biases, our ideologies, and how does that impact
how I interact with other people?
And does that align with my core values and my core beliefs?
And so I think it starts there individually, considering an educational organization.
I think leadership is incredibly important in this because the leader is the,
and they are the, they are the, there are more duties that come with these jobs.
All right.
So I'm fully aware of that, but a superintendent, a principal, we, I mean,
we, like, we are in, we are instructional leaders.
The main purpose of going to school is to learn, right?
I mean, you're learning.
There's a whole lot more that goes with that, but you're there to learn.
You have to have an environment where everyone feels like they belong.
They can express themselves.
They can learn.
They can make mistakes.
They can learn from those mistakes and they can discuss that and collaborate
that in a very, you know, non-judgmental way to be able to learn.
They need to be able to grow in a non-judgmental way to be able to grow.
However, they need to be growing linguistically, academically, both,
emotionally, just whatever that is.
But if, but if the leader does not implement that main pillar of trust in the organization
and create an environment where it's okay to be different and that we want to learn
from our differences and that it is through our differences and our diversity that we
can learn more from each other because I don't have all the answers and if I say that I do,
then I am lying in the same way that if you say you have all the answers, you are lying.
None of us do.
We are better together.
But again, going back to whenever I first started teaching, if we have that one common
expectation and kind of rule for ourselves, which is respect, we can work through those
differences.
I was so fortunate to be a principal of a dual language immersion school and there were 13
well, 14, 13, 14 different countries represented among the teaching staff there.
Again, many having similar cultures and backgrounds and having very different
cultures and backgrounds.
Some historical perspectives between the countries was very different as well and came with
probably some emotions and feelings.
But apart from all of that, the atmosphere that we were in that was created in that school,
everyone knew that they had a voice, everyone that felt one way religiously or didn't or
felt this.
I mean, we were able to work together.
Were there disagreements?
Were there real life human interactions?
Of course.
But we created this environment and this ambience together where we respected each other and
we felt like a family.
I mean, we really were a school family.
Even our parents felt like they were part of that school family.
And I walked into a situation that was already like that, but I was very fortunate that I
was able to maintain that and help it grow even more in the same way that their new leader
would continue to do the same thing.
But I think really it does start with leadership.
And like, I mean, as my Kiki says, shit just rolls down the hill.
So it starts at the top.
So I guess you have to consider.
Hopefully we're rolling gold nuggets down the hill instead.
I mean, I know that there's a whole lot with leadership and leaders have a very, very hard
role in so much.
But for the analogy, it starts with leadership and we can really create a great environment
and get through some of the difficult times or we can create an environment of innovation.
So you can get a better place, but you can sometimes really feel like you're going to
be going through a scenario where we take our...
Dean, how did you keep your momentum at the start and habits have really kept itself and
continued to succeed?
And I think it's been very positive for a long time to a S X.
wants to what's best.
Sometimes we have difference of opinion on what is best.
Exactly.
No matter who you're sleeping with,
no matter what your political affiliation,
we just, we are here as students.
I mean, people generally are good, no matter, no matter.
I mean, I have a firm belief in that,
that no matter what people believe,
most people want what's best for them and their family.
Unfortunately, we got a few bad apples out there,
but I think it's few and far between.
And so it's a very important point to always remember
to focus on relationships, introspection and respect.
And I'm always thankful to leaders that exemplify that
and that do that, and then also share that
maybe even through their social media.
But I just want to, you know, a real special shout out
to leaders that are active in that conversation
and just promoting, you know,
core values that do support trust
and building relationships and inclusive environments
where people do feel belonging.
And, you know, a leader that, leaders everybody, you know,
you might have a title in leadership,
but it's our teachers with the boots on the ground
at the same time that are the real heroes,
that are the real examples of what that looks like.
And through their leadership,
as professional educators in the system,
they really exemplify how we can celebrate who we are,
being our authentic selves and the identities
of all of our students to have that belonging
in our classroom.
So thank you to all of our educators for their service
and that specifically, I really applaud them.
Well, Dr. Kellyente, Viper, Forbes,
I think we could go on for hours, but-
We'll have a part two maybe later on.
That's right.
We can get into some specifics about some other topics
and things like that.
We can do a part two from this one if you want.
I think, yeah, I think we'll need to.
So before closing, is there anything
that you would like to add that maybe you haven't shared?
Well, I just- Last little tidbit.
The audience of wisdom.
You know, I think that the best wisdom I could really share
is just to, you know, and I practice this every single day,
no matter what, you know,
live your life with as much gratitude and thankfulness
as possible.
There are always gonna be good things that happen.
There's always gonna be bad things that happen,
but it's really how we do respond to it.
And sometimes, you know, I feel pretty good
about how I responded to it.
Other times I think, Kelly, what in the world?
Like you have digressed so much, but you know,
but we're all growing.
And so, you know, live and lead with gratitude,
have an open heart, have an open mind,
listen to really understand as opposed to just, you know,
speaking to be understood,
and be thankful for all of the experiences
that your diverse multicultural, multilingual populations
can really add to your classrooms and celebrate that
as they enrich your lives as they did mine.
And anyhow, I'm just, again,
thankful for the experiences I've had.
I'm thankful for you, for our relationship
and how we've been able to grow together, you know,
as friends and also just professionally.
And so, and to everyone out there, you know,
to be the guest today has really been fun
and exciting for me.
I was looking forward to it, but to all the listeners,
thank you for listening.
Thank you for being here.
And I just wanna applaud you in all that you do.
And thank you for all of your service.
Thank you for all of your service.
Gracias a ti, Kelly and T.
Yeah, thank you so much.
I got like 20 nicknames now.
You were Taylor 2.0.
Viper.
Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Viper.
I know, so many.
And I'm sure many more to come.
We'll talk about that on the next episode.
No, this has been very powerful.
Thank you so much for joining us, Kelly.
And thank you, Mike Overholt,
for doing production work and making this possible.
Without the silent guy behind everybody,
this would not be possible.
So thank you, Mike, for making this happen.
Thank you, Mike.
Yeah, thank you to all the listeners out there.
Our goal is to help break down barriers
and build bridges for multicultural
and underserved communities.
Please let us know if you have any questions
or recommendations for the show.
And we hope you have an amazing day.
Thank you guys.
Gracias, adios.
Thank you for joining us today.
Don't forget to like, follow and subscribe.
Adios.
I'm trying to feel it like it starts.