1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,520 Hello, welcome and thanks for listening to Crimes of the Basque Lands. 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:12,280 A quick content warning, this podcast details crimes and descriptions of violence that may 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,340 be disturbing or triggering. 4 00:00:14,340 --> 00:00:16,120 It may not be suitable for all listeners. 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,500 We'll do our best to warn listeners about what to expect before each episode and to 6 00:00:20,500 --> 00:00:22,600 include them in our show notes. 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:23,600 So enjoy the show. 8 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:30,380 Bat, bi, hiru, lau Watch your back, watch your back 9 00:00:30,380 --> 00:00:39,160 Ertzaintza's gonna get you Watch your back, watch your back 10 00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:48,160 Ertzaintza's gonna get you Watch you back 11 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:51,160 It's the Crimes of the Basquelands. 12 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:54,160 It's the Crimes of the Basquelands. 13 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:57,160 Hi Douglas. 14 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:58,160 Hi Julie. 15 00:00:58,160 --> 00:00:59,160 How you doing? 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:00,160 Good. 17 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:01,160 How are you doing? 18 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:02,160 We're doing great. 19 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:03,160 Thanks. 20 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:04,160 Welcome to Crimes of the Basquelands. 21 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:05,160 That's us. 22 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:06,160 We have guests today. 23 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:07,160 Yes. 24 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:08,160 Very exciting. 25 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:09,160 Very exciting. 26 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:10,160 Should we introduce our guests? 27 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:11,160 Yes. 28 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:12,160 It's Inigo. 29 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:13,160 Hey, hi. 30 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,160 Thank you for having me. 31 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:17,160 And Ramon. 32 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:18,160 Hey guys. 33 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:19,160 Thank you for having me. 34 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:20,160 Yes. 35 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,160 And today we're drinking, you're drinking... 36 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:24,160 A txakoli. 37 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:25,160 A Hitzalde. 38 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:26,160 A Hitzalde, yes. 39 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:27,160 Which we've had before. 40 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:28,160 It's from Getaria. 41 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:29,160 Yep. 42 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,160 And it's quite tasty and very refreshing. 43 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:33,160 It is. 44 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:34,160 Perfect for spring. 45 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:35,160 Yeah. 46 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:40,160 And our friend Ramon was telling us it's probably next to the rocks, right? 47 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,160 Yeah, we are thinking now that it's Getaria. 48 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,160 Like Getaria is like tucked against a rock mountainside. 49 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,160 Yeah, you have to go through some small tunnels in the way there. 50 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:51,160 So it's probably what it is. 51 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:52,160 Makes sense. 52 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:53,160 Very atmospheric. 53 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:54,160 I like the description. 54 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,160 Well, this is Crimes of the Basquelands. 55 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:04,160 So we talk about any crimes, any and all crimes that are either in the Basque Country or... 56 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,160 Related to Basque Country in any way whatsoever. 57 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:08,160 Yes. 58 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:09,160 Any tenuous link. 59 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:10,160 Very tenuous. 60 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:11,160 It's all good. 61 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:17,160 So it's a Basque person living elsewhere that committed a crime or was the victim of a crime 62 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:18,160 or anything. 63 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:19,160 Exactly. 64 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,160 We're learning about crimes and the Basque Country. 65 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:24,160 Yeah. 66 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,160 Our story today is... 67 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:31,160 Well, the title is Monte Jura, which you guys will probably have seen in the title. 68 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,160 It's the name of a little mountain. 69 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:34,160 Okay. 70 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:40,160 And I actually thought you might know it because it's three kilometers from Estella in Navarre. 71 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:41,160 Oh yeah. 72 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:42,160 Estella in Navarre. 73 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,160 Which is where your husband is from, right? 74 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,160 Well, he's not from there, but yes, he has family from... 75 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,160 Oh my God, am I going to try to remember the name of the town? 76 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:51,160 Around there. 77 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:52,160 Around there. 78 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,160 On the spot, can't remember the name. 79 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:56,160 It's all good. 80 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:57,160 It's all good. 81 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:58,160 It's all good. 82 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,160 But they have a lot of connections to Estella because my husband did live there. 83 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,160 This time Douglas is going to tell me the story. 84 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:04,160 It is. 85 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:05,160 It's me. 86 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:06,160 I'm super excited. 87 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:07,160 And Ramon, and you go. 88 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,160 We're going to tell you the story. 89 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:10,160 Indeed. 90 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,160 And you guys may be asking yourselves why guests now, right? 91 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,160 And I think why not? 92 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:17,160 Why not? 93 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:24,160 We're always, I think we're trying to understand a bit more about the Basque Country and how 94 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:25,160 things happen here. 95 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,160 As we are not actually from here. 96 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:28,160 Exactly. 97 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,160 We've been here from some time, but these guys have been here for longer. 98 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:32,160 For their lives. 99 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:33,160 Indeed. 100 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:34,160 Their whole lives. 101 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:38,160 And I think that that kind of context is going to work well in this story because it's so 102 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:39,160 rich. 103 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:40,160 It's very political. 104 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:41,160 Okay. 105 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:42,160 Lots of names. 106 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:43,160 So ask if you're not following. 107 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:44,160 I will. 108 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:45,160 You're there. 109 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:46,160 We have a lot of questions. 110 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,160 You're there for the listeners. 111 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:48,160 Okay. 112 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:54,160 So the Carlists is one of the big themes of today's story. 113 00:03:54,160 --> 00:04:00,160 Carlistas, Carlists, and we may ask ourselves who these guys are, right? 114 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:05,160 And I think I'm going to just, well, let me put a bit more context. 115 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:06,160 So the Carlists. 116 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,160 That's important for our story. 117 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,160 And why did I say Montejura? 118 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,160 Montejura is this mountain just south of Estella. 119 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:21,160 And it's a place where every year the Carlists gather to remember their dead people in war. 120 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:22,160 Okay. 121 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,160 So the Carlists is a political party. 122 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:29,160 We'll get into it when we'll look a little bit more specifically about who they are now 123 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:30,160 in a little bit. 124 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:35,160 But so they go, they're a group, a party. 125 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,160 They're still a party, a political party today. 126 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,160 And the Carlist Wars began in the 1830s. 127 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,160 So it's quite a long time ago, a long party. 128 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:52,160 And they went, they go up this mountain and it's a very conservative group. 129 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:53,160 So it's very religious. 130 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,160 They're very Christian in general. 131 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,160 We're going to see there's complications to the story. 132 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,160 It's not so simple. 133 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:05,160 And they go up this mountain and they kind of have a mass to remember the dead that fought 134 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,160 for the values that they believe in. 135 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:08,160 The fallen soldiers. 136 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:09,160 Exactly. 137 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:17,160 And the story we're going to be thinking about happened in 1976 right in the middle of transition 138 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:27,160 between, so transition as we call here is the situation between the death of Franco 139 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,160 and becoming a democracy in a way. 140 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:35,160 So it's right in the middle and I think it's a great occasion for us to kind of think about 141 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,160 the context and what was happening around that. 142 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:39,160 Yeah, for sure. 143 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:47,160 So the first Carlist War was 1833 to 1840. 144 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:54,160 Second Carlist War 1846 to 1849. 145 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,160 Third Carlist War 1872. 146 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,160 It doesn't say finishing dates. 147 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:01,160 I'm not sure if it was very long. 148 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:02,160 Was it 1876, right? 149 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:03,160 Yeah, right. 150 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:04,160 Maybe. 151 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:05,160 I believe so, yeah. 152 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:06,160 Well done. 153 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:07,160 Well done. 154 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,160 Well these are the three wars that are known as Carlist Wars. 155 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:17,160 And I just wanted to highlight a bit of the context of who these people are. 156 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:18,160 Why Carlists, right? 157 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:19,160 Not to overextend. 158 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:20,160 No. 159 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:25,160 So at the end of 18th century, Spain is in turmoil. 160 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:32,160 Finances have gone poorly wrong and there are uprisings in the streets against the ministers 161 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:33,160 of the king. 162 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:40,160 At the time the country was an absolute monarchy, but a lot of the king at the time delegated 163 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:48,160 a lot of the power in his ministers, which were in very poor regard by the populace in 164 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:49,160 general. 165 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:56,520 And then in the context of all this with the American colonies already starting to shaking 166 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:05,760 up and coming to life and thinking of independence, in comes Napoleon and his armies invading 167 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:12,160 Spain and setting a, one of Napoleon's brothers, I believe it was, as a king. 168 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,160 Jose I with a bin. 169 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:16,160 Right. 170 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,160 And then, well, Napoleon loses that war. 171 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:27,160 The first major land defeat, I believe happens in Spain, in fact, in Bylen. 172 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:34,160 Then in comes the son of last king, which if I remember correctly, Carlos IV. 173 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:35,160 Okay. 174 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:36,160 Yes. 175 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:44,160 Then his son, Fernando VII, Fernando VII would roll in and would need to, so before 176 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:55,280 that, a constitution had been passed on liberal political thinking grounds with the key element 177 00:07:55,280 --> 00:08:01,000 of it being the modern idea of the constitution where the nation of Spain is declared as such 178 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:08,000 and made the subject of sovereignty for the country instead of just the previously existing 179 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:14,920 monarchy, which was absolute by divine right and the people have nothing to say about it. 180 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:24,000 So Fernando VII, when he comes back into the country, he's faced with the decision of what 181 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:31,000 model of the country does he want to go with and he opts for absolute monarchy. 182 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,000 Okay. 183 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:36,040 At one point, I believe he was deposed and then came back. 184 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:42,720 Ten years after his return, which were absolute hardline absolute monarchy, then Fernando 185 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:51,160 VII dies in 1833, I believe it was, after the 10 years of absolute monarchy, which became 186 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,160 known as the Decada Ominosa, if I recall correctly. 187 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:55,160 What does that mean? 188 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:56,160 The ominous decades. 189 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:57,160 An absolutist decades. 190 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:58,160 Like something really grim and, you know. 191 00:08:58,160 --> 00:08:59,160 Okay. 192 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:00,160 Never heard that one. 193 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:01,160 That's interesting. 194 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:02,160 Dark ages. 195 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:03,160 Yes, the dark ages. 196 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:04,160 Can you say it again? 197 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,160 What was that? 198 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:07,160 La Decada Ominosa. 199 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:08,160 Of course, of course it was. 200 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:09,160 The ominous decades. 201 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:10,160 Ominous decades. 202 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:15,160 Of course it was a decade that was dark from the perspective of the liberals. 203 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:16,160 I mean, yes, yes. 204 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:17,160 Not from the perspective of the absolutists. 205 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:18,160 Of course, yes. 206 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:19,160 The people that were oppressed. 207 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:20,160 Called it the ominous decades. 208 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:21,160 The 1% were happy. 209 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:31,720 So then, after Fernando VII dies, there is two competing claims for the throne, which 210 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:36,720 are his daughter, which would be Isabel I. 211 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:37,720 Isabel I. 212 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:38,720 Or Elizabeth. 213 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:39,720 To Samuel II, of course. 214 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:40,720 Sorry about that. 215 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:48,320 And a competing claim from the dead king's brother, Carlos Maria Isidro. 216 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:49,320 Right. 217 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:56,600 In the meantime, it is also important to say that the late king, Fernando VII, had passed 218 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:04,360 a pragmatic sanction, kind of a royal decree, saying that a woman could inherit the throne 219 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:05,360 of Spain. 220 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:15,080 My understanding of it is that Spanish royal law, if there is such a thing, accepts queens 221 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:16,080 as rulers. 222 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:17,080 Yeah. 223 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,840 But not the tradition of the family of Bourbon. 224 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:20,840 Exactly. 225 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:26,960 So, from their origins in France, they had inherited the Salic law, which states that 226 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,680 no female can be a queen. 227 00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:36,000 So the pragmatic sanction coming from Fernando VII, what it had done is it had abolished 228 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,000 the Salic law. 229 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,000 Yeah. 230 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,840 And then that was the reason of it. 231 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:48,040 Makes it so Spanish tradition has preference over family tradition, in that sense. 232 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:55,640 And therefore, yeah, the monarchical tradition of Spain, where women could be queens and 233 00:10:55,640 --> 00:11:02,680 rule, as opposed to the tradition of the family itself, which didn't accept females as, or 234 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:03,680 women as rulers. 235 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:04,680 Right. 236 00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:07,200 So they wouldn't be eligible. 237 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:15,040 So whichever of the two sides you take of this ruling, whether you accept it or reject 238 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,600 it, determines which one is in your eyes the rightful heir. 239 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:20,600 Exactly. 240 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,680 And the Carlis chose Carlos. 241 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:24,680 Hence the name. 242 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:25,960 Hence the name. 243 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,880 And they just stuck with that name because whoever descended from Carlos is who they 244 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:36,280 want, even though they're fighting, you know, for Javier and for many kings, the names of 245 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,720 which were never Carlos, right? 246 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:39,720 That's true. 247 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:40,720 Yeah. 248 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:41,720 Some Carlos. 249 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:42,720 Carlos Hugo. 250 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:43,720 Exactly. 251 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,320 And we talk about that. 252 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:46,320 Yeah, that's the thing. 253 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:53,240 The Carlistas would speak of their aspirants, aspirant kings, with the full designation 254 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,960 or the full name like Carlos VII, Charles VII. 255 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:57,960 Yes, they counted. 256 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,920 As they saw them as rightful kings, therefore, you address them as such. 257 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,600 And all have fashioned this, you know, kind of way of holding themselves. 258 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,000 That's part of it, and that's, of course, one of the reasons behind the eruption of 259 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:14,000 the first Carlis war and then, of course, the Carlis war that came after it. 260 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:21,400 But also apart this dynastical problem, there was a huge array of ideological differences 261 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:27,000 between the people defending the right of Isabel and people defending Carlos. 262 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,520 One being the conception of the monarchy that each band will defend. 263 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:37,840 The Carlis will be defenders of the Ancien Regime, the conception of the absolute monarchy 264 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,440 in line with what things have. 265 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:41,440 Divine, right? 266 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:42,440 Yes, yes, yes. 267 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:48,600 Divine right and a strong sense of the importance of political Catholicism, even though, of 268 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:54,120 course, the liberals, namely those that defended Isabel Segunda, were also Catholic. 269 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,120 But in a... 270 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:57,120 Yeah. 271 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:58,680 Because it was the 19th century anyway. 272 00:12:58,680 --> 00:12:59,680 Yeah. 273 00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:04,280 I think that what is important for listeners to keep in mind is that Carlismo was just 274 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:12,440 one example and illustration of a further movement that happened in the whole of Europe 275 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,040 of the Ancien Regime resisting to die. 276 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,040 Yeah, the counterrevolution. 277 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:18,040 Yes. 278 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,880 Resisting the death of the monarchy. 279 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,880 The death of the absolute monarchy, the death of the type of social system that had for 280 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:30,440 many centuries existed in Europe prior to the French Revolution and to the revolution 281 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:31,440 that came after it. 282 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:32,440 Right, okay. 283 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:38,880 And it is important to say that, and I think this is already being mentioned, that during 284 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:46,560 the Civil War, the Carlists fight in the end on Franco's side. 285 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:48,440 Right, they did. 286 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,480 And they win. 287 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:51,480 Yes. 288 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:52,480 Yeah. 289 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:53,480 But they also... 290 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,480 And the Carlistas were like pro-Franco. 291 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:57,480 Yeah. 292 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:58,480 Pro... 293 00:13:58,480 --> 00:13:59,480 Conservatism. 294 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:00,480 Yeah. 295 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:01,480 Catholicism. 296 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:02,480 Yeah. 297 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,480 Really, I think one of... 298 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,200 Clearly it's not one of them only, but one of... 299 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,680 And then who would be the left? 300 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:10,680 Who would be... 301 00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:12,880 Liberals, the people who at that point were fighting for... 302 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:13,880 Did they have a name? 303 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:14,880 Republicanism. 304 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:15,880 The republicans. 305 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,200 Liberals, communists, socialists, anarchists, you name it, you have it. 306 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:20,200 Also vast nationalists. 307 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:21,800 And they refer to themselves as the republic. 308 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,840 Because it was a republic. 309 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:24,840 There was a republic. 310 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:25,840 Yes, you would say so. 311 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:26,840 Where those parties existed. 312 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:27,840 It's... yeah. 313 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,760 So the republican side of the civil war was very... 314 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:32,760 Fractural. 315 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,000 Very plural and very fractional. 316 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,400 So was the national, so called, the so called national side. 317 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:40,400 Nationalists, yeah. 318 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:46,360 I mean, proof to that is that one of the first things that Franco did was to impose on the 319 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,880 Carlis unification with the Falangist. 320 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:49,880 Wait. 321 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:50,880 La Falange. 322 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:51,880 La Falange. 323 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:52,880 Oh. 324 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:53,880 What's that in English? 325 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:54,880 Falangs. 326 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:55,880 Falangs. 327 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:56,880 Falangs, really? 328 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:57,880 The Greek military formation. 329 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:02,160 And how would you define them? 330 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:10,440 So they were, in a way, sort of much like the Nazi party in Germany, a nationalist socialist 331 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,680 in a sense, party. 332 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:23,400 Meaning, focusing a lot more than in socialism itself, in a centralized, self-autonomous, 333 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,240 country enclosed economy. 334 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:32,400 Eventually what happens is that Franco, once the war is over, and the time comes for, when 335 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:40,080 everybody comes to you looking for their piece of the pie, Franco, kind of, in a way betrays 336 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:41,080 the Carlistas. 337 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:42,080 And the Falangistas. 338 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,880 And the Falangistas both, by rolling them into a single party. 339 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,720 Where they could bicker and fight each other. 340 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,240 Nor the Carlis, neither the Falangists were very happy about this. 341 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:53,240 No. 342 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,880 Because only Franco's win, essentially. 343 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,640 That's part of the impression of... 344 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:03,440 Yeah, there's a frustration within the Carlis party, and I think this is going to be important 345 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:04,440 for our story. 346 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:05,440 Right, right. 347 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:06,440 Okay. 348 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:11,880 So, we saw how the Carlism formed in the 19th century. 349 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,200 And then how it progressed throughout the years. 350 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:21,520 And they constantly fighting for the fueros, the local rights for this king. 351 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,480 And then what their position was within the Franco dictatorship. 352 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:26,840 Finally, yep. 353 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,920 They win with Franco in 37. 354 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,560 And then they're brought into the government. 355 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,960 And then we're going to continue soon. 356 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,360 Okay, so what a great historical background. 357 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:39,760 Should we take a break? 358 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:40,760 We are taking a break. 359 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:41,760 Okay, let's do it. 360 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:42,760 And we're back. 361 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:43,760 Yes. 362 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:44,760 So, we're back. 363 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:51,600 And we're back. 364 00:16:51,600 --> 00:17:01,680 So we were talking a little bit about the Carlis being brought into the Francoist government 365 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:07,480 after they won the civil war in 1937. 366 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:12,220 And they were actually included in the government, right? 367 00:17:12,220 --> 00:17:16,900 They were actually joined with the phalangists. 368 00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:18,060 We mentioned that as well. 369 00:17:18,060 --> 00:17:22,640 They were considered part of the Francoist regime. 370 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:32,040 And so they had, coming up really up to our story, they had this commemoration every year 371 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,920 where they would commemorate the dead in those three wars. 372 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:37,920 Perhaps four, we were saying. 373 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:38,920 Including the civil war, yeah. 374 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:39,920 If you consider to be one of them. 375 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,720 The Carlis themselves, we were saying. 376 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:50,360 No, but certainly the tribute that they were paying, and they still pay yearly, to the 377 00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:53,960 death in Montejura includes the civil war. 378 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,960 They include the civil war, okay. 379 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,480 It was like the fourth Carlis war. 380 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:00,480 Yeah. 381 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:05,840 At some point, Franco was going to decide who was going to be the king of Spain. 382 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,440 And it's between Juan Carlos and Carlos Hugo Borbón Parma. 383 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:20,920 And at some point, Franco ruled Juan de Borbón out entirely because Juan de Borbón and his 384 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:26,840 acolytes were conspiring with the allies, with Americans and with the Socialist Party 385 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:33,160 of Spain to form a political bloc in opposition to Franco. 386 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:38,560 And then after that, Carlos Hugo had his great opportunity. 387 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:44,600 There was a certain moment in which Franco seemed to be leaning toward that guy. 388 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:49,680 But after a while, he in the end decided that he was going to be Juan Carlos. 389 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:55,760 In the meanwhile, Juan Carlos, who then would be Juan Carlos the first king of Spain. 390 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:57,880 A young man, an teenager. 391 00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:58,880 Was Franco's ward. 392 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:05,560 It's a son of a defeated king who then moves to live with the family of the vectors. 393 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,240 And therefore is kind of captive there. 394 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,280 A ward of the state. 395 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:10,280 Yeah. 396 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:11,280 It's captive there. 397 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:12,280 They train him. 398 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,520 They send, in the case of Juan Carlos, they put him through schools. 399 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,000 Then they send him to the Navy and I believe the Air Force. 400 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,920 They put the man through quite a bit of military training. 401 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,800 They were always very on top of him. 402 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:31,640 You know, every statement, every press, anything was tightly controlled by the regime. 403 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,280 So essentially a captive. 404 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:39,800 So after Franco chooses Juan Carlos as king, as a successor. 405 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:47,360 And note on this, also it needs to be mentioned that Franco choosing Juan Carlos is a deliberate 406 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:54,560 break in the legitimate line of succession of the House of Urbán. 407 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,400 So it's Juan de Borbón. 408 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:57,400 In a way. 409 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:58,400 The father. 410 00:19:58,400 --> 00:19:59,400 Yeah. 411 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:04,240 It's a slight to the institution of the monarchy in a way. 412 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,360 And to Juan de Borbón of course. 413 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:08,080 Franco chooses Juan Carlos. 414 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:09,080 Yes. 415 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:16,720 Which makes Carlos Hugo de Borbón Parma kind of, you know, a free agent now. 416 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,240 He's not going to be king. 417 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:24,440 And so he more confidently turns to the left, more liberal. 418 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:29,840 And he continues going to the mass every year in... 419 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:30,840 In Montejura. 420 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:31,840 In Montejura. 421 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:32,840 Exactly. 422 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:37,040 I was just going to add to your point of this mountain being important. 423 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:45,280 It is important and significant, especially because some battles in all the Carlos War 424 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:46,720 were fought. 425 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:47,720 Around there. 426 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:48,720 Yes. 427 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:49,720 Yeah. 428 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:50,720 Which is why they chose it as a place to commemorate. 429 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,640 It's a very much of a symbol. 430 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:55,640 Yes. 431 00:20:55,640 --> 00:21:01,800 And yeah, so, you know, they're going up there, they're commemorating and we're now coming 432 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:02,800 up to the... 433 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:03,800 The 1970s. 434 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:04,800 The 70s. 435 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:05,800 Yeah, 76. 436 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:06,800 Yes. 437 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:15,960 And Carlos Hugo de Borbón Parma, the guy who didn't get the crown, is going now. 438 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,600 He's married with Princess Irene of Holland. 439 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:25,520 They're going to meet at the monastery of Irache, which is just at the feet of... 440 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:26,520 At the base of... 441 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,000 At the base of the mountain. 442 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:36,360 And however, as we have been highlighting, there have been schisms within the Carlis 443 00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:37,360 movement. 444 00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:38,360 Yeah. 445 00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:46,280 And so there are people who are very unhappy that Carlos Hugo has become so leftist. 446 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,920 So there was a sense of hostility between these two Carlis families. 447 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:50,920 Absolutely. 448 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:56,600 And to the point where these guys, what were they called? 449 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,600 The Comunión Tradicionalista or the Tradicionalist Communion. 450 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,360 The Tradición Comunista. 451 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:09,640 They choose Sixto, Enrique de Borbón, Carlos Hugo de Borbón Parma's brother as the rightful 452 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:10,640 heir. 453 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:11,640 Of the throne. 454 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:12,640 Of the throne. 455 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,440 This is what got me into this story. 456 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:15,440 Okay. 457 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:16,720 And you sent me this video. 458 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:17,720 Okay. 459 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,200 And it's like there's colored cameras. 460 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,760 It's 1976 and we're seeing these... 461 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:24,760 Technicolor. 462 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,240 People going up a mountain. 463 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:32,040 And it's crazy because, you know, there's just like, they're just filming people and 464 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:37,120 they're all like with Icurriñas, which are the Basque flag, screaming, you know, gore 465 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:44,200 uscadi, ascatuta, hurrah to a free Basque country. 466 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,300 And you know, during, you know, it's 76. 467 00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:49,280 So this is one year. 468 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,280 Well, it's months. 469 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,760 So Franco died in November, 20th of November. 470 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:55,760 And that was in May. 471 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,760 It was the ninth of, 10th of May. 472 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,720 So the end of 75 and then 76 was the first year. 473 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,760 A very confused country. 474 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:04,760 Yeah. 475 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:05,760 In fighting and uncertainty. 476 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:11,880 There were strikes across the country. 477 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,360 Everybody was like, what is going on? 478 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:15,880 Is ACTIV during this time? 479 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,880 Oh, everyone is. 480 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:18,880 Yeah. 481 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,880 There's literally tens of ACTIV. 482 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,240 There is a lot at stake, right? 483 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,240 Like there's a lot of power. 484 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,240 Not only at Aries, but at others. 485 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,040 Yeah, there's a lot at stake. 486 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:37,360 Literally tens of armed terrorist groups of all varieties and all political ideas, a lot 487 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:40,040 of foreign mercenaries. 488 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,080 Tens of layers, political instability. 489 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:50,960 And these two ex pretendants, maybe pretendants of the crown, one with his princess going 490 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:51,960 up a mountain. 491 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:52,960 Is it exciting? 492 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,640 Well, all of them going up the mountain. 493 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:55,640 Yeah, literally. 494 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:56,640 Yeah, literally. 495 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,840 Three comedies from this day. 496 00:23:58,840 --> 00:23:59,840 All right. 497 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,040 So these guys are all, all these people are doing this ritual going up the mountain. 498 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:05,040 Yes. 499 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,840 And it's gonna, all hell's gonna break loose at the top of that. 500 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:08,840 Two people are gonna die. 501 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:09,840 Okay. 502 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:10,840 I'm excited. 503 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:11,840 All right. 504 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:12,840 Let's take a quick break. 505 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:13,840 Yeah, guys. 506 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,840 We'll be back in a second. 507 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:24,840 Hey, we're back. 508 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:25,840 Yes. 509 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,840 And so let's give it a little recap. 510 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,320 We need a recap, right? 511 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,400 It's a lot of information. 512 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,840 I know guys, I just wanted to use this first to learn a little bit about Carlism. 513 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:37,840 Yeah. 514 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:38,840 And yeah. 515 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:39,840 It's very interesting. 516 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,840 Internal Spanish politics and the place of the Basque Country and a little bit. 517 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,400 I thought that was an interesting topic. 518 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,400 Yeah. 519 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,040 With the excuse of this crime. 520 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:58,480 So we are, we had Franco choose between two possible kings. 521 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:06,000 He in the end didn't choose Carlos Hugo, who is the guy we're gonna follow in our story. 522 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:13,520 He's gonna go up the mountain and his brother is gonna be going up the mountain being supported 523 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,720 by the kind of radical right wingers of the Carlists. 524 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:19,720 Okay. 525 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:20,720 All right. 526 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:27,000 And then on the other hand, Franco chose Juan Carlos who did become king. 527 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,040 He was brought up by Franco in a way. 528 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,760 You know, he was a ward of the state. 529 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,200 It was a ward of the state. 530 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,200 Exactly. 531 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,440 And he was kind of educated toward this. 532 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:46,720 And after he, Juan Carlos was chosen as king, we see that Carlos Hugo, who had already started, 533 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:54,840 you know, in the sixties already had had contact with Franco and they had gone up Montejura 534 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:55,840 together. 535 00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:04,040 He eventually became more freed to become perhaps more honest or evolve in his politics. 536 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:09,320 And he became much more liberal, much more, yeah, asking for freedoms. 537 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,880 And he was still going up this mountain. 538 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,760 He had a different ideology from Franco. 539 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:15,760 Yeah. 540 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:23,120 And also amongst all those things, we see that this is actually the year, not exactly, 541 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:27,200 well it was November 75 that Franco died. 542 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,340 And this is May 76. 543 00:26:30,340 --> 00:26:33,880 So this is right in the middle of it all. 544 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:42,080 And we didn't quite introduce this very structurally, but you know, this is why we're covering this. 545 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,280 Franco dies on November 20th. 546 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:52,000 There's just all sorts of competing, competing political powers. 547 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,800 We're going up the mountain now. 548 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:54,800 It's Montejura. 549 00:26:54,800 --> 00:27:04,000 It's on the 9th of May, what has happened is that Sixto, the right wing potential, 550 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:12,760 Carlis's guy, has had a lot of support from the United States, politically right. 551 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,800 Oh, so they were backing him. 552 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:15,800 Yeah. 553 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:16,800 They wanted him to be king. 554 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:17,800 Yeah. 555 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:18,800 Well, not exactly. 556 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,320 Well, no, they wanted to cause problems in Europe. 557 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,800 And Carlos Hugo is going up the mountain as he's been doing for years. 558 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:37,640 Carlos Hugo is with his wife at the monastery of Irache, which is at the base of the mountain. 559 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:42,220 And there's commotion. 560 00:27:42,220 --> 00:27:52,920 People start throwing things at the more left leaning Carlistas who are with Carlos Hugo. 561 00:27:52,920 --> 00:28:00,840 And it turns out that one of this Argentinian guy, Rodolfo Eduardo Amiran, is one of the 562 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:01,840 biggest instigators. 563 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:07,920 It's kind of the guy who's directing that kind of lets throw stones. 564 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:21,920 And eventually, Jose Luis Marin Garcia Verde shoots somebody in the crowd and they die. 565 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,480 Ricardo Garcia Pallejero. 566 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,320 But why were they... 567 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:29,640 What was the conflict? 568 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,360 So why were they fighting each other? 569 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:39,680 While Hugo and everybody were gathering, the left leaning Carlis were gathering, the right 570 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,200 leaning Carlis, they start causing problems. 571 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:49,720 And to the extent where they end up shooting a person in the crowds, this shooting happens. 572 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,280 There's a shot, hurt. 573 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,960 You can see the film, the guy is being carried away. 574 00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,800 I'm not sure you see the actual shot, but you see the guy being carried towards the 575 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:06,240 church and set next to the church and they're trying to stop his bleeding. 576 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,800 Of course, the crowd is clearly asking the police to intervene. 577 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,560 Yeah, there's police everywhere. 578 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:14,560 What do they say? 579 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:15,560 Estamos bajo ordenes. 580 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:16,560 We're under order. 581 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,560 We are under order. 582 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:18,560 Tonight. 583 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:19,560 And they're just not... 584 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:20,560 Intervene. 585 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:28,000 But in the end, they call an ambulance and everybody decides to go up the mountain anyway. 586 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,240 So they all start to go up the mountain anyway. 587 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:31,240 Right? 588 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:36,280 Carlos Hugo, his wife and some priests and everybody, ton of people. 589 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,720 And when we see these images, it's ridiculous. 590 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,360 It's like, what is a medium sized mountain, right? 591 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:44,360 But it's a mountain. 592 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,680 It's kind of a... and it's got quite a steep slope. 593 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:49,680 But these people... 594 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,520 You have to work to get to the top. 595 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,880 Probably 20, 30 people across kind of just going up the mountain. 596 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,080 The whole thing is just people walking up the mountain. 597 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,080 You know, it's a mess. 598 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:08,600 And so what happens is that on the ninth, the night before, Sixto and his quadrilla, 599 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:15,880 his group of friends, his bunch of no goods, they went up with tons of batons. 600 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,120 So they got sent up post. 601 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,200 They were there on the ninth. 602 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,720 On the previous day, Sixto had gone up with his friends. 603 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,280 So this is the 10th in the morning. 604 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,960 And these guys go up like with their batons. 605 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,800 The left wing Carlos are going up there. 606 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:37,400 And when you start getting up at the top, they start being beaten with batons. 607 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:45,080 And eventually there's had to be lots of shooting, some shots, a number of shots. 608 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,800 And eventually somebody shoots with a machine gun. 609 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:49,800 And one guy dies. 610 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,080 But there's probably injuries. 611 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:53,960 There were dozens of injuries. 612 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:59,280 And the guy who died at the top of the mountain was Antonio Jimenez Santos. 613 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,960 And well, yeah, he was already dead when they were bringing him down. 614 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,600 And you can even see that in images of the video. 615 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:13,240 You can see him being brought down in what you call these stretcher. 616 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:18,720 So our feelings go out to these two guys' families. 617 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,480 And it's still even controversial. 618 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:32,640 One of them at some point, I'm sorry, I'm not sure which one, but somebody wanted to 619 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:41,240 put a hat, a boyna on a coffin, which was apparently a symbol of the Carlists. 620 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,040 And his mother was like, no, he wasn't a Carlist. 621 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,100 So just to highlight that there were all these political movements happening. 622 00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:50,280 Maybe he was just more... 623 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:51,400 His death was even controversial. 624 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:52,400 What was he? 625 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:53,400 Was he more left wing? 626 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,360 Was he more Basque nationalist? 627 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,400 Was he more Christian Catholic? 628 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:58,400 Yeah. 629 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:04,120 So, you know, these are the two deaths at Monte Jura. 630 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:11,120 On that same day, immediately after the shooting at the top of the mountain, Sixto was escorted 631 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:16,960 away by the police, the one that had support of the United States, apparently. 632 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,960 He was escorted to France very... 633 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:21,960 Well, you know, keep him safe. 634 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:22,960 Efficiently, yes. 635 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,960 Without declaring to the police anything. 636 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:25,960 He was just taken. 637 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:26,960 Come on. 638 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:27,960 Yeah. 639 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:28,960 I mean... 640 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:37,080 I just, to clarify something that is maybe of some importance, we are of course not saying 641 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:44,560 that the United States was interested in making Sixto the king of Spain. 642 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:45,560 No. 643 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,120 That was of course not the case. 644 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:53,480 If anything, which is, I agree, not entirely proven, the US would be interested in creating 645 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,240 political instability in certain countries, including Spain. 646 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:06,200 What is for sure, however, is that the government of Spain supported Sixto's acolytes to go 647 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,960 to Monte Jura and defeat. 648 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,800 Sounds like a mess. 649 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:11,800 Just sounds like a mess. 650 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:12,800 It is a mess in its transition. 651 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:20,760 You know, although the police initially did nothing, they eventually do take people into 652 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,060 custody. 653 00:33:22,060 --> 00:33:33,880 They take this Argentinian guy, Rodolfo Eduardo Amarón, Stefano Dole Chiaie, an Italian anti-communist 654 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,640 from an organization, OTAN. 655 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,640 I had never heard of it. 656 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,480 I thought it was very ironic because it's... 657 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:42,480 OTAN. 658 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,040 Yeah, because it's the same as NATO in Sicily. 659 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:53,400 It sounds hilarious that NATO is a terrorist organization. 660 00:33:53,400 --> 00:34:02,080 And then there's José Luis Marín García Verde, then José Arturo Márquez de Prado 661 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,420 and Francisco Carreras García Mourinho. 662 00:34:06,420 --> 00:34:12,960 All these guys were taken into custody and eventually only the last three, José Luis, 663 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:23,400 José Arturo and Francisco Carreras were deemed to be more responsible for those two deaths. 664 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:29,200 And there was a law of amnesty, which just excused everybody. 665 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,120 So amazing. 666 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,320 I mean, for sure. 667 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:39,480 One of the main requests from the transition was that they excuse all the political prisoners, 668 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:45,520 all the people who were union leaders. 669 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,680 And there were many of them around this time. 670 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,520 And so, yeah, it was... 671 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:59,560 And so they did excuse a lot of those people and a lot of the political prisoners, including 672 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,920 everybody involved in the story. 673 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:14,440 So, yeah, we're... 674 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,000 That's the end of the story. 675 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:23,680 So we got to the top of the mountain. 676 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:32,520 Carlos Sixto had been hiding with the far right of the Carlisks on the top of the mountain 677 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:38,360 to cause problems, to cause chaos and mayhem. 678 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,720 And Carlos Hugo went up at the bottom of the monastery. 679 00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:43,720 One person was shot. 680 00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:45,400 He was taken to hospital. 681 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,440 When it got to the top, there was a lot of mayhem. 682 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:54,000 So, yeah, it was really... 683 00:35:54,000 --> 00:36:00,440 If you think about it, the operation was designed so they caused chaos at both ends. 684 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,320 So people had nowhere to go. 685 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,560 If you see the footage, you see people completely confused, just standing around, others running 686 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,880 upwards, others running downwards, people carrying others. 687 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:11,880 Not sure what's going on. 688 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:12,880 Yeah. 689 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:13,880 And in the end... 690 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,880 It's really much worse, is what I always think. 691 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:23,200 Carlos Luis Marin Garcia Verde, who was an ex-military guy, or it says military, so I'm 692 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:28,880 not sure if he was ex or current, but he was implicated in the shooting of both of them, 693 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:29,880 actually. 694 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:35,040 Even though there were all these foreign mercenaries, the Italians, the Argentinians, and that was 695 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,040 it. 696 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,440 And they were... 697 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,500 Because of that law, they were all excused. 698 00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:43,080 So that was the end of this. 699 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:54,400 I just want to recognize that in 2018, Podemos and Compromis wanted to cancel the amnesty. 700 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,080 Those are two political parties. 701 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,080 Yeah. 702 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:03,960 And they wanted to cancel the amnesty, and PSOE, PP, and Ciudadanos were against it. 703 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:05,360 Other political parties. 704 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:06,360 Yeah. 705 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:18,280 And also, the Carlos...I forget which year exactly, but they accused the king, Juan Carlos, 706 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,280 the first king. 707 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,800 The one that's currently considered the ex. 708 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:30,120 They accused him personally of orchestrating this, and they came out. 709 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,720 And so it's a mess, right? 710 00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:34,200 But we learned... 711 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:35,200 Did they? 712 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:36,200 Well, they accused... 713 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:37,200 The court has called them. 714 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:38,200 And nothing... 715 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:39,200 Nothing. 716 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,200 Nothing. 717 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:41,200 They just accused him. 718 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:42,200 Sure. 719 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:43,200 To save. 720 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,600 So it's mostly an episode about learning about the Carlists, because every article you read 721 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:53,000 about anywhere, the Spanish history or Basque history, the Carlists are so important. 722 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,540 So we learned a lot about them today, I think. 723 00:37:56,540 --> 00:37:58,600 Even if it was a little bit confusing. 724 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,040 It was confusing for me. 725 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,040 I hope you guys got... 726 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,040 Too much history. 727 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:03,880 But you know, politics is confusing. 728 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:04,880 It's not simple. 729 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:05,880 Yeah, it is. 730 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:06,880 It wasn't... 731 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,160 I didn't really know where to start. 732 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,440 So you know, as long as we... 733 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:13,440 And you guys did great. 734 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:14,440 Thank you. 735 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,880 Thank you so much for all your insight. 736 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:17,880 Yeah, thanks for coming. 737 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:18,880 It was amazing. 738 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,280 It was super fun to have you guys insights. 739 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,280 I think essential, but yeah. 740 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,520 Should we do a mini crime time? 741 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:27,520 Yes. 742 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:28,520 Okay. 743 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:33,280 I believe our guest Indigo has a mini crime time he wants to share with us. 744 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:34,280 Go for it. 745 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:35,280 All right. 746 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:36,280 Let's go. 747 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:37,280 Yes. 748 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,680 I don't know to what extent this even qualifies as crime because... 749 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:41,680 That's why it's a mini crime. 750 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:42,680 It doesn't matter. 751 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:43,680 It is really, really puny. 752 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:50,680 So if our listeners are expecting something spectacular, they are going to be very disappointed. 753 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:51,680 No problem. 754 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:58,280 I gotta say that back in 2018, I think it was, it was around Christmas time. 755 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:07,160 Well, as by means of introduction, I gotta say that I live in Bilbao in the very interesting 756 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:08,160 area of San Francisco. 757 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,960 If you are in Bilbao, that's the right place to be because it is very multi-culti. 758 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:13,960 Multi-culti. 759 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:15,960 Finest part of town. 760 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:21,080 Very exciting and very vibrating in many, many ways. 761 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:28,240 And then we have people from various parts of the globe and we have a very sizable Moroccan 762 00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:29,240 community. 763 00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:30,240 Okay. 764 00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:31,240 That's the introduction. 765 00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:36,520 Now, I am not, I'm not blaming anybody here because the only person to be blamed of what 766 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,960 this crime that I'm going to describe is me myself. 767 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:47,600 So I was returning home from a night out and then, you know, this effect that alcohol has 768 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:53,540 many times of, you know, of lowering down your level of hardness and everything. 769 00:39:53,540 --> 00:39:59,560 So I was approaching home and then there was this guy and then he approaches me and he 770 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,280 started speaking in French, which of course I will not be able to understand. 771 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,560 And then I said, no, it's going to be Spanish or English. 772 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,560 One of the two you decide. 773 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:17,360 And then in Spanish, he said to me that he was in a very, very bad situation, very problematic 774 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:23,400 situation in which he basically take home message was that he needed to call home in 775 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,480 Morocco to speak to his mom. 776 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,080 And then of course, I mean, it was Christmas time. 777 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:34,080 I am not going to pretend that I am the best person in the globe, but if someone is in 778 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:39,320 dire straits, of course I'm very happy to help and do unto others, et cetera. 779 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,320 And then I said, of course. 780 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:46,360 I did not even think that it was very unlikely that this man was going to call his mom in 781 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,360 Morocco at fucking five o'clock in the morning. 782 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,360 But he started dialing. 783 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:56,360 But then all of a sudden he started running very fast. 784 00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:01,360 And the best thing was that he was running in the direction of my apartment. 785 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:07,360 So I said, OK, I'm going to I'm going to because this was the scenario I would be home. 786 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,360 And of course, I mean, there was no way for me to catch him. 787 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:17,360 And the reason I say that maybe this does not qualify as crime is because he because 788 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:24,360 you did technically and maybe I mean, someday this guy will return me my phone after having. 789 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,360 No, no, I don't think so. 790 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:32,360 I give you some props for being such a nice guy like going up like his he wants to talk 791 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:33,360 to his mom. 792 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:38,360 I was a slightly tipsy and that may have been a factor accounting for my niceness. 793 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,360 But yeah. 794 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:41,360 Well, thank you. 795 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,360 That was a great, great. 796 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:44,360 Yeah, that was great. 797 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,360 Well, guys, that was a great episode. 798 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,360 I hope everybody had a good time. 799 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,360 See you guys next time. 800 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:51,360 We'll be here. 801 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,360 We bid you a goor. 802 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,360 A goor. 803 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:05,360 Crimes of the Basque Lands is written and produced by Davos de Carvalho, Julie Garcia, and Megan Dooley. 804 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,360 The sound and editing for each episode by Davos de Carvalho. 805 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:10,360 I'm Megan Dooley. 806 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,360 Theme song written by Davos de Carvalho, Julie Garcia. 807 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:14,360 I'm Megan Dooley. 808 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,360 Sung by the choir with no name and produced by Tom Squires. 809 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,360 Podcast art by Distinct Signal. 810 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:28,360 Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Crimes of the Basque Lands and contact us at crimesofthebastelands.gmail.com 811 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:34,360 with story ideas worldwide which have a connection to the Basque Country or any rave reviews. 812 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:40,360 If you like our podcasts, please subscribe, like, rate, and review wherever you get your podcasts. 813 00:42:40,360 --> 00:43:08,360 Until next time, agur!