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Bat bi hiru lau

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Watch your back, watch your back

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Ertzaintza's gonna get you

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Watch your back, watch your back

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Ertzaintza's gonna get you

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Watch your back, watch your back

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Oh, there's a crime here

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It's a coming from the Euskal Herria

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Gotta wash those red hands

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It's the crimes of the basquelands

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It's the crimes of the basquelands

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Yeah, I guess I was, I wasn't...

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And even for mini crime time too, if they have a mini crime time.

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Of course. Of course.

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You can send us a voicemail or something.

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Yeah, that's a good idea.

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And maybe we can put it on the show.

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I was gonna say, it's kind of related to that kind of typical expression we have in Bilbao.

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I mean, it's more like a joke rather than an expression, but

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there's a joke where somebody goes up to somebody else and goes

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So, have you seen the world map of Bilbao?

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As in, Bilbao is so important.

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It's not only the capital. The world map is a map of Bilbao.

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And in that vein of thought, you know, a crime committed to anywhere could be connected to Bilbao.

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That's true. That's very true.

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So just tying it in with Basques things.

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Yes. Everything leads back to the Basques.

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Of course, it has to.

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Okay. Well, let's get into our story then.

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So first, I'll start out with my sources for the story.

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I had articles from El Diario, El País, 20 Minutes, Diario Vasco, El Mundo, El Español, AITB, Noticias de Quipuzcua, Casos Islados, The Guardian, and of course, Wikipedia.

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Wow.

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Yeah. Lots of sources for this.

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And then I wanted to also give special thanks to my ex-student that I've mentioned many times, Gisela, because she's a law clerk.

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I want to thank her for her help in researching, you know, parts of the story or answering, being very generous with her time and answering my legal questions.

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That's lovely. I hope we can have her one day as a guest just to say hi and tell us a little quick mini crime time or something.

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Yeah, yeah. That'd be awesome.

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Okay. So in terms of content warning, there is an account of an assassination of a political figure.

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So listen with discretion.

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So hang on to your chapella, Douglas.

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I hope at the very least you will find this story interesting.

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Because you're my main audience here.

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Am I?

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So this week, I'd like to tell you the story about a tale as old as time.

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It's a drama about powerful, wealthy men scratching each other's backs by bestowing each other with quite lucrative favors.

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Oh, right. Right.

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Favor.

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Yes. But in this case, they were busted.

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Okay. Nice. Good.

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I know. Right.

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So they were busted for using their privilege and their connections to line their own pockets.

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Hmm. Classic. Shalivan tree. Yes. I mean, shocking. They got busted.

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I think personally. Okay. Yeah. I was gonna say what's shocking that they were busted.

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Yeah. Usually they don't get busted.

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So this is my one sentence synopsis for this story.

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Okay. So all hell breaks loose when three powerful men and well connected men share the spotlight in the vast courts and in the media, leading to their ultimate fall from grace.

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Okay. So this is the story of Kucha Bank and the former politician Miguel Angel Cabecis Garcia.

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So my cousin, no, he's not my cousin. I mean, maybe hundreds of years ago.

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All right. So now I'm giving you this politician's given name, but I'd like you now to guess how he changed it for his public persona and how he's actually referred to in the news stories about his involvement in this case.

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Okay. Okay. Yeah. So he's a bass politician. He was a member of the socialist party of us.

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God. And we remember is the best country and a member of us.

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Godico is scared.

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The best left the left basket party. So I guess they combine it's the

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Anyway, they usually run on there together. They're kind of like a combined party in this.

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Okay. A lot of times they kind of keep their messages separate, but they present themselves jointly an election.

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Yeah. So I don't I'm not sure. Oftentimes when he's talked about his party, they combine the two. Yeah.

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These two parties. So we know what's happening. Yeah.

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Sometimes they split up again. But yeah, a lot of times they just become one party eventually in order to have more clout and weight. Yeah.

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So how do you think he changed his name to suit this public identity and you know, as a politician here in the Basque Country. So Miguel to me kill.

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Of course.

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Yes, I knew you would get it right away. Very good. I knew you would get it. I mean, so I mean, there has been a process where people who were obliged to pick up a Spanish name are free to pick another name now after dictatorship.

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And a lot of people, you know, were forced to be called like girls had to have be called Maria. Yeah. And Maria something, you know, something exactly. So Jose something. Exactly. So they wouldn't let you get married.

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Mary and Joseph, by the way, religious types. Yeah. So, you know, there's there's there's there's a tradition of doing that.

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There's a reason why people would do that because I guess he's an older man and he wouldn't have been allowed to to to have a name.

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So it's not 100% cynical and it's quite a typical thing here. But let's see.

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I'd like to think that he just did it to get more credit in the Basque politics. For sure. For sure. I mean, he's not very nationalist because he's the person you said the party.

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It's not Pesce. It's it's the best socialist party, which is not Pesce. Oh, OK. So Pesce is the national party, right? Yeah. But it also has a Basque. Right. So it's like the Basque counterpart of that party, I guess.

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Right. Right. Right. Basque Pesce. Right. That's what you want to call it. Yeah. Sure. Sure. But what I mean is even Pepe, which is a very unionist right wing party.

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Yeah. They still have a Basque Pepe office, you know, exactly. Even though they're not nationalist at all. Yeah. Anyway, just clarifying.

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OK. So yeah, I'll refer to him as Mikkel, from now on. OK. All right. So first I'm going to give you some background on Cucha Bank. OK. So now this is from Wikipedia.

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Cucha Bank is a Spanish bank founded and based in Bilbao. It was officially created on January 1st of 2012 out of a merger of three Basque saving banks operating in their respective provinces.

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Bilbao, Biscaya, Cucha, known as BBK, based in Bilbao. Que Puskwa, Denostia, Cucha, known as Cucha, based in San Sebastian.

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And Caja, Vital, Cucha, known as Vital, based in Vitoria. So these three Basque banks were headquartered in the three capital cities of Tuscany.

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Bilbao, Bilbo, San Sebastian, Denostia and Vitoria Castes. So those second names, as we've said, I think before. It's a typical way in a Basque country. You would say the Spanish name and then the Basque afterwards.

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OK, so just some more information about Cucha Bank. As of 2014, the European stress test measuring solvency in periods of credit crisis showed that Cucha Bank ranked first in Spain, standing out as the soundest financial institution.

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Cucha Bank was considered the most solvent bank in Spain. Nice. Also ranking higher than the average European bank.

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I wouldn't expect less from the Basques. I know. Good for them. Good for them.

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So now the word Cucha, Denostia. What do you do? You want to tell us what that translates to? It's literally a box, but it's referring to your savings box. A bank. Yeah, a bank. Your safe. Yeah. Your bank.

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I don't know. Is bank a literal thing apart from a well, I mean, I'm thinking box could be bank because it's where you keep your thing, a bank of something. Yeah. My thing. Yeah.

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And my brain, it links to a safe like a big box. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

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Okay, so it was in December of 2014 when the new president of Cucha Bank, Gregorio Villa La Vecchia filed a complaint with the prosecutor's office in Bilbao for, quote, alleged anomalies during the former president of the banks, Mario Fernandez's tenure.

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Okay. The director of human resources, Fernando Lopez de Yeliz. Aguilas. Aguilas.

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He had given the new president a heads up that a one, Miquel Cabieces had been hired indirectly for three years by the bank, but had not provided any services to the entity.

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Interesting.

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Upon receiving this information, he communicated these facts to the Bank of Spain, which in turn transferred it to the European Central Bank, which then requested that the current president of Cucha Bank, Gregorio Villa La Vecchia, find out the details of this.

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Okay.

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So he performed an audit.

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And in the final report, he found what appeared to be an increase in the payments by the bank to their legal consultants and representatives in labor issues.

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Okay.

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So Gregorio is the new president and he's investigating his own bank. Investigating his own bank under the watch of the former bank president.

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Okay, what was something that had gone on?

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The legal tenure. Yeah. So these payments were made in monthly installments for approximately 6,000 euros. They were made starting in 2012 and ending in 2014. Ultimately totaling to 243,592 euros.

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Nice, nice little sum of money. Yeah.

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You know, this may not sound nefarious, you know, a law firm raising their fees for providing more services to their client and invoicing them accordingly.

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But what raised alarm bells for him was that he could find no legitimate basis for the bank to be issuing these extra payments.

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Right. These three years.

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Yeah, basically no services. Yeah.

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So when he inquired further, he found that the bank had decided to dispense this quote income directly to Mikkel by way of funneling it through the bank's external legal labor advisor, the law offices of Rafael Alcorta and associates.

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Moreover, these deposits from Coochie Bank to Rafael Alcorta and his firm were approved and directed by the banks then president Mario Fernandez. So he said yes to these increases in their fees.

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It was approved by him. It was under his responsibility. Yeah. Marios. Yes, Mario.

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Trying to trying to start these names out. I know, I know. That's why it's very complex. It's already hard for me to follow.

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But there's a Gonzalo who's a current one. Right. No, it's Gregorio. Sorry. Yeah. Mario is the previous guy. Yep. That's good enough for now. Oh, Mikkel. Oh, he's the one that was hired. Right. Okay.

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So, um, air quotes there. Yeah, I did. Air quotes. I have to remember to let listeners know that I'm doing air quotes. So it appeared as though these payments were income for Mikkel and that Mikkel was providing a legal service to the bank as a labor lawyer.

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However, upon further inspection by the La Vecchia Gregorio, he could find no services that Mikkel had actually provided to the bank over the course of this time that he was receiving pay.

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So what does he do? He smells something fishy. And I assume he wants his bank that he's now in charge of not to have to come under any scrutiny for this discrepancy, you know, or a crime of misappropriation of funds. Right. Very responsible.

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Yeah. So he files a complaint with the prosecutor's office for investigation in December of 2014. He'd just taken over at that point as well. Okay. Interesting. So they investigated. Okay. Good.

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Um, so, uh, so Coochie banks director of the internal audit department, Roberto mole. He confirmed in his report that from the end of 2014, he had found quote irregularities in the relationship between the bank and Mikkel Cavieffis.

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He questioned whether the amounts received by Mikkel were actually payments for rendering services to the bank as a labor lawyer. He detailed in his report that Mikkel had received monthly payments of almost 5,800 euros in advance for his collaboration with the Alcourt de la Firm.

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In addition to these monthly payments, Mikkel had also billed the bank for expenses of a trip that seemed to have never taken place.

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You could have just actually charged a trip you took. Jesus. People take a trip. Right. Save that money. Go to France.

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Totally a business meeting.

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So what struck him as odd is that these monthly payments were being salaried to caveat this, but it appears though they were for nothing in return. Right. So he wasn't providing the bank with any services. Okay. So Roberto mole was brought into the matter by the new president.

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Gregorio. Yeah. Yeah. As a result of his learning about the relationship between the bank and Mikkel Cavieffis upon the departure of the former president. Right. Yep.

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Still with you, Julie. Incredibly incredibly. Okay. So he discovered that this irregular liaison was only known by Fernandez Mario.

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The director of human resources and the general director. So nobody else seemed to know about this arrangement or arrangement in the bank. Right. Right.

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So he wanted this. The new president wanted Roberto mold the audit guy to analyze whether or not the employing of Mikkel was actually legal. Okay. Yep.

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So, um, he apparently questioned the legality of his hiring because of this quote strange and quote irregular indirect contracting procedure of Mikkel's hiring. Okay.

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So he found it strange and irregular because the logical thing would have been to just increase the amount paid to the court to law firm who represented the bank. Right. Or was there legal advisor. Right. Right.

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But what happened was that the bank had decided to establish a separate channel in which the money being paid out by the bank monthly always in the same amount went directly into the hands of Mikkel. Yeah.

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That's smells suspicious as hell. Okay. So I'm doing my best here to keep this clear. Let's hope everybody's with us. So let's take a break and then I'll introduce you to the three men who would have to answer for this crime. Okay.

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Oh, exciting. Let's do that.

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Okay, we're back. We're back. Okay. So let's find out about these three men that are going to have to answer right for this.

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First, let's find out about Mario Mario Fernandez, the former president who was in charge of all these quote irregular activities that were taking place at Coochie Bank. According to Wikipedia, Mario Fernandez, Pellas was born November 4 1943 in Bilbao going to the very beginning.

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I'm happy that you have a nice town. He grew up on a farm. He didn't. He graduated in law from the University of Deuces though in 1965. And since 1966, he's practiced as a lawyer.

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So is a well known university in Bilbao. And they're well known for having law as well. Yeah. He's also a professor of commercial law at the business school at the University of Deuces.

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He was also active in politics.

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He was a member of the Bass Nationalist Party PNV. Yeah, Ben and when considering. And in March of 1980, he was included in the first cabinet of the bass government after its restoration, post dictatorship.

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Nice. He was chosen by the then Linda Cari Carlos got I quote, yeah.

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Right, the land the county is the president of the best country.

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He was chosen by him to head the Labor Department. And in January of 1982, got I quote, yeah, appointed him as vice Linda.

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Oh, wow. So this appointment made Fernandez like the number two bass executive and in charge of negotiating the transfer of powers with the government of Spain for the autonomous region of the bass country.

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Yeah, that was a very important time in history in terms of, you know, there were coming out of dictatorship and they were getting back the autonomy and sort of, yeah, it's serious negotiations there.

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Yeah, important things. Yes. So he was right there at the table.

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So yeah, at this time, the democracy in the Constitution of Spain has been secured post dictatorship and the formation of the autonomous regions were being established and their terms with their rights and responsibilities were being negotiated with the Spanish government.

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So our main man Mario was right there. Right. Interesting.

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Sitting there at the table with these agreements, you know, making these agreements between Spain and the bass country.

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Got I co chair resigned as Linda Cardi in January 27th of 1985 and was replaced in this post by Jose Antonio Arranza, who was loyal to the leadership of the PNV.

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The Bass Nationalist Party in September of 1986. Then there was a new political party that came about, led by got I co chair called us go out.

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Yeah, very good.

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So that he created this new party.

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At that time.

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So this was a split of these two national parties. Yeah. Yeah. And for a little bit of context PNV is the biggest party to date in the bass country.

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By far, they've been in power for a very long time. I mean, they know. Yeah, they were not in power for four years in this guy.

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But other provinces have had other more more variety and parties that the party are sorry, the province with the strongest connection to PNV is this guy where we live.

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Yeah.

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Because here we've only had one four year term that hasn't been PNV. Yeah. And they're actually more conservative.

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They're they're center rights. Yeah. Yeah. So they're fiscally conservative. And they Yeah, they came more from a sort of conservative Christian right movements in the best country.

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That's kind of their vibe. Yeah. When Mario left his post as vice Linda Cardi.

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When

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His name again.

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Got I got you resigned.

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He went to join this new party as well. Oh, really interesting.

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And then he went on to head up the newly established parties candidate list for Bilbao City Council.

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Okay.

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So in June of 1987, it seems that that his time at City Council was unsuccessful or unpopular.

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Okay. I guess he wasn't a very good politician.

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He was he was elected.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So he withdrew from City Council altogether or in politics altogether.

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Okay. So what year are we talking about?

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This is an 87.

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87. Okay.

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And currently he's not affiliated with any political party.

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Okay. So after that, he just kind of stopped being in politics altogether.

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I've given you all this background on Mario's political past to demonstrate how connected he was in vast politics.

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Because I think it does influence how he goes about things in this and as his career progresses in November of 1996, the Basque government appointed him as a member of the USK the arbitration commission.

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What is that you ask?

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Yeah, I have no idea.

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Let me tell you.

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00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,000
What?

183
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,000
I had to look into it myself.

184
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:22,000
Okay. So it's the institution in charge of resolving competition complex that may arise among the institutions of the autonomous community and those of each of its historical territories.

185
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:33,000
And as this position is so politically and economically charged in the year 2000, his name appeared on a published list of possible targets.

186
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,000
Right.

187
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,000
So what is it?

188
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,000
Anybody that lives here knows what it is, but maybe our listeners don't.

189
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:49,000
So I'll give you the Wikipedia definition of etta for our listeners who may not be familiar with their significance here in the history of the Basque Country.

190
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:55,000
So etta an acronym for us, scadi ta, askew, Tassouna.

191
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,000
Yes, it's got a task.

192
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:03,000
That's one that translates to Basque homeland and liberty or Basque Country and freedom.

193
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:12,000
It was an armed Basque nationalist and far left separatist organization in the Basque Country, which covers territory in northern Spain and southwestern France.

194
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The group was founded in 1959 and later evolved from a group promoting traditional Basque culture to a paramilitary group engaged in violent campaign of bombing, assassinations and kidnappings throughout Spanish territory, especially in the southern Basque Country.

195
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The part that's in Spain.

196
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,000
Its goal was gaining independence for the Basque Country.

197
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It was the main group within the Basque National Liberation Movement and was the most important Basque participant in the Basque conflict.

198
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,000
So that's what it is.

199
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,000
Yes.

200
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:52,000
And so with this new position, Mario Fernandez was considered himself on the list of a potential target of theirs.

201
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:58,000
After moving away from active politics, he dedicated himself to private business.

202
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:10,000
He came to hold the position of legal director of legal affairs and a member of the Management Committee of BBVA, another bank, right?

203
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,000
Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentaria.

204
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,000
That's a bank bank.

205
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,000
Yes.

206
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,000
So it's one of the another of the largest banking institutions here and in the world.

207
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,000
It is indeed.

208
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,000
It's very big in Latin America, for example.

209
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:29,000
And then it was after leaving BBVA that he joined Uriaman and his law firm in 2002.

210
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,000
Okay.

211
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:36,000
So I just want to give you kind of like a little side story about his time at BBVA.

212
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,000
In April of that same year, he was involved the year of 2002.

213
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:49,000
He was involved in the scandal of the secret accounts of the BBVA bank that occurred when he was a senior bank official.

214
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:57,000
The Anti-Corruption Prosecutor's Office requested that he be charged in the case, but the judge did not consider it appropriate.

215
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,000
And in the end, he wasn't tried for these crimes.

216
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,000
But I'm going to tell you what this was.

217
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,000
Okay.

218
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,000
Ground to that story.

219
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:18,000
So in April of 2002, it was discovered that BBV before they merged with the Argentaria Bank maintained a secret account in the tax haven of Jersey for 13 years in which it had deposited a package of the bank's own shares,

220
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,000
which it later sold with capital gains of over 120 million euros.

221
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,000
Yummy.

222
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:35,000
The judge in this case opened a judicial criminal investigation for possible crimes of misappropriation, corporate crime of document falsification, corporate crime of dishonest administration, money laundering and bribery.

223
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,000
Was anybody sort of taken to justice?

224
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,000
I think so.

225
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,000
Okay.

226
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,000
But Mario did not.

227
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,000
He got out.

228
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,000
He got unscathed.

229
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,000
Yeah.

230
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,000
He was there at another banking scandal might not have had anything to do with.

231
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,000
He was just getting his feet wet in banking scandals.

232
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,000
Maybe.

233
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,000
Okay.

234
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:55,000
It was his first banking scandal.

235
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,000
Maybe.

236
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,000
I mean, you know, we're the first one that came to light.

237
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,000
But yeah, he did escape those charges.

238
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,000
So he wasn't tried for that.

239
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,000
So that didn't stop him from heading up another bank.

240
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:15,000
In July of 2009, he was elected as the new president of BBK, the savings bank here in Biscay.

241
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,000
Pre merger of the three savings banks that make up Coochie Bank.

242
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,000
Right today.

243
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:25,000
He's considered one of the masterminds behind achieving the merger of Coochie Bank.

244
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,000
Interesting.

245
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:32,000
He was appointed as the executive president of the newly created bank in 2012 when they merged.

246
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,000
And that was a position he held until the end of 2014.

247
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,000
Wow.

248
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,000
So shall we talk about Miguel?

249
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,000
Okay.

250
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,000
Let's get into Miguel.

251
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,000
Mario down.

252
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,000
Michael is next.

253
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:51,000
So Miguel Cabieces or Miguel Angel Cabieces Garcia.

254
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,000
He was well when he was born.

255
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,000
He was born in La Arboleda.

256
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,000
Back in the in the Valley Trapaga.

257
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,000
Yes.

258
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,000
Bilbao.

259
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,000
Yep.

260
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,000
On September 23rd, 1957.

261
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,000
Yeah, we've talked about Arboleda before.

262
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,000
We have.

263
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:14,000
Miguel, as he's now known publicly, like Mario Fernandez, also graduated with a law degree from the University of Dusto.

264
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,000
And also like Mario, he participated in politics.

265
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:30,000
As for his professional career as a lawyer, I don't really have a clear trajectory, but he later testified that he hadn't practiced like courtroom law since 1990.

266
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:36,000
But he did work is like in an advisory capacity on legal matters.

267
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,000
His career sounds like a cushy job to me.

268
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:45,000
So it seems that his political career and professional career are overlapping throughout his life.

269
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:53,000
He was a labor adviser for the Union General de Trabajadores, which is GT or the General Workers Union.

270
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,000
Yeah, it's one of the biggest.

271
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,000
Not the biggest.

272
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,000
Yeah.

273
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,000
He served on the board of directors for various companies and public entities.

274
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:08,000
He's held various organizational positions in the Socialist Party of Uscadi and then Uscadico Esquerra.

275
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,000
So they've combined it here.

276
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,000
PSE EE.

277
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,000
Right.

278
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:18,000
He was a city council member and then the first deputy mayor of Portogalete.

279
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:24,000
And then from 1995 to 2007, he was the mayor of Portogalete.

280
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,000
Okay, getting to know our neighbors.

281
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,000
Yeah, Portogalete.

282
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,000
Anything you want to say about Portogalete?

283
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,000
It's a very picturesque neighborhoods.

284
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,000
I mean, it's its own municipality.

285
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:47,000
And as you were saying, they have their own mayor, but it is connected by metro with Bilbao and it feels like a suburb from here.

286
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,000
But yeah, it's beautiful.

287
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:57,000
It has an old port with gorgeous architecture and a very famous bridge, the Portogalete Bridge, which is a hanging bridge.

288
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,000
What is a hanging bridge?

289
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:06,000
Well, look it up on a look it up because it's pretty hard to explain, but it's a crazy looking bridge.

290
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,000
We definitely recommend it.

291
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,000
It's a UNESCO World Heritage that that bridge.

292
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,000
Yeah, it's cool.

293
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,000
It's quite a fun, fun visit.

294
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,000
Yeah.

295
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:28,000
Okay, so he was also a member of the General Assembly of Biscaya, which is the highest legislative body of the province and historical territory of Biscaya.

296
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,000
So also very well connected.

297
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,000
Very, yes, clearly.

298
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:42,000
So after leaving the mayor's office, he became a government delegate in the Basque Country until 2012 when he was replaced by Carlos Riquijo.

299
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:49,000
Now it was in 2012 when all this shady business with Cuchabank all started, but more about that later.

300
00:30:49,000 --> 00:31:00,000
And finally, it was in 2015 when he officially dropped his membership with the PSEEE, the Mass Socialist Party and the Leftwing Party.

301
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,000
After all this, you know, monkey business with Cuchabank came to light and he was being investigated.

302
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:11,000
So it appears that he left the party because of some perhaps not so subtle encouragement from party leaders.

303
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,000
Sounds appropriate.

304
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,000
Yeah.

305
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:19,000
In politics, you get dirty, you smell like you're going to have to go.

306
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,000
Okay.

307
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,000
So shall we take a break before we get into our third and final defendant?

308
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,000
That sounds like a plan.

309
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:35,000
Okay.

310
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,000
Okay, we're back.

311
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,000
We're back.

312
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:50,000
So now for the final piece of our puzzle and the third defendant in this case, Rafael Alcorta, his career and life are not as publicized, aka he doesn't have a Wikipedia page.

313
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,000
So I'll share with you what I do know about him from my online searches.

314
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,000
Okay.

315
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,000
Like his co-defendants, he also has a law degree from Deusto University.

316
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,000
Wouldn't you say that?

317
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,000
I know. Right?

318
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:03,000
Shocking.

319
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:09,000
But out here, you know, like you had said before, Deusto University is the most prestigious law school in Spain.

320
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:16,000
It's the oldest private university in the country and it was founded here in Bilbao by the Jesuits.

321
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:21,000
Why didn't that was famous outside the Basque Country, but it's nice to know.

322
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:32,000
He's been a member of the Colegio de la Abogacia of Biscayen, or Davis-Cayen, College of Law of Biscayen, since 1982.

323
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:37,000
In 1990, he established his practice on Mazarredo Street.

324
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,000
Downtown Bilbao. Very nice streets.

325
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:54,000
He's also a member of the public body of the Autonomous Community of the Basque Country, whose purpose is to promote dialogue and conflict resolution between the social part, the workers and unions, and the business part in the world of work.

326
00:32:54,000 --> 00:33:01,000
It's also an advisory body to the Basque Parliament and government for matters relating to social and labor matters.

327
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,000
Nice. Good to know.

328
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:07,000
So this man's also well connected and right there at the table, right?

329
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,000
Yes. Very important decisions.

330
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:13,000
With banks, with government, with big companies.

331
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:20,000
So in 1998, he established Alcorta y Abogados, which is Alcorta and Associates, you know, I guess if it's a law firm.

332
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:21,000
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

333
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:27,000
And he moved his offices to the Albia building, which is Jardines de Albia, you know.

334
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,000
Like right near the courthouse.

335
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:39,000
So he was considered one of the five best labor lawyers in the region, and I, which I suppose garnered him a contract and a working relationship with BBK.

336
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,000
Right. Okay.

337
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:47,000
Makes sense. So you recall BBK was the primary banking savings institution here in Vizcaya.

338
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,000
Pre-merger with the other Cuchas.

339
00:33:50,000 --> 00:34:00,000
So post-merger of the three Cuchas, creating Cucha Bank, he remained on as their labor advisor and participated in the labor negotiations for the bank.

340
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,000
Interesting.

341
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,000
So that's it. That's all I've got on him in terms of his professional.

342
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,000
Yeah. Sounds like an interesting.

343
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:16,000
So all three of these men, lawyers, all involved in politics in some way or another, maybe not Rob Fiel, Alcorta so much.

344
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,000
Right.

345
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:26,000
But in a way, because he's also dealing with unions and making these deals with business, the business world.

346
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,000
And then absolutely.

347
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,000
Banks deal with business and owners and workers.

348
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,000
Yeah.

349
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,000
It's all connected.

350
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,000
Yeah.

351
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:40,000
So the preliminary proceedings, the preliminary proceedings began in February of 2015.

352
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:49,000
This time the bank held a board of directors meeting to decide whether or not they would be part of the prosecutorial side of these proceedings.

353
00:34:49,000 --> 00:35:00,000
So it was the new, you know, it was the new president of the bank, Gregorio Villa Labritia, who had brought the attention to the courts to this case after all.

354
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:06,000
So the board decided that the bank would not take part in this capacity at these proceedings.

355
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,000
So they wouldn't be part of the prosecution.

356
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,000
Okay.

357
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,000
Okay.

358
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:17,000
So they, you know, from what I read, it seems like they felt that all this went down under different leadership.

359
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:25,000
And as it stood, you know, the bank was actually still being run the same way that Fernandez or Mario had left it.

360
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,000
Right.

361
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:32,000
But they wanted to overhaul the operations under the new leadership.

362
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:42,000
And they didn't want Coochie Bank to be associated with this type of, you know, misappropriation type of crime.

363
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:48,000
But like what I thought you meant, they don't want to be part of the prosecuting.

364
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:49,000
Right.

365
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,000
Because I'll get into that.

366
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,000
It's not just the prosecutor's office, the judicial office.

367
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:00,000
Other people can also be part of the prosecution.

368
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,000
So I'm going to tell you about that.

369
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,000
Okay.

370
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:13,000
Among those who were summoned to appear were the two of the men who have introduced you to the former president of the bank, Mario Fernandez, and the former government delegate of the Basque Country, Yucal Cabellet.

371
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:14,000
Right.

372
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:27,000
So they were ordered to testify on March 12th and 13th of 2015, along with the testimonies of Roberto Mol, who was the internal auditor at Coochie Bank and the head of HR at Coochie Bank.

373
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:33,000
Fernando, oh God, I forgot how to say his name, Lopez de?

374
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,000
Iguilas.

375
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:35,000
Iguilas.

376
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:44,000
So after these preliminary proceedings, it was decided that they would in fact indict and charge Cabelletes, Fernandez, and Alcorta with some crimes.

377
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,000
Okay.

378
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,000
Interesting.

379
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:57,000
So in its indictment, the Basqueia prosecutor's office deemed that the three defendants acted, quote, through mutual agreement, unquote, and had caused economic damage to Coochie Bank.

380
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,000
Sounds like we're understanding that together.

381
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,000
I'm agreeing.

382
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:14,000
They requested a sentence of two years in prison and a 6,000-year-old fine for each man for the crime of unfair administration and the crime of falsifying a commercial document.

383
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:28,000
Alternatively, the popular accusation in this case requested a sentence of three years in prison for each for the continuous crime of misappropriation, along with the crime of forgery in a commercial document.

384
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:34,000
Additionally, they requested that during the time of their sentence, they would be disqualified from working in their respective fields.

385
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:44,000
So in the case of Mario Fernandez, he would be barred from holding a position as either like an administrator or to sit on any board of directors for any commercial entity.

386
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,000
Right.

387
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:52,000
And for Mikael Cabelletes and Rafael Alcorta, they would be banned from practicing law during the time of their sentence.

388
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,000
Yeah.

389
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,000
Okay.

390
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,000
Oh, just during the time.

391
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,000
Okay.

392
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,000
Yeah.

393
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,000
Just the time.

394
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,000
Interesting.

395
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,000
Yeah.

396
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,000
I mean, it could be more than that.

397
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,000
Yeah, right.

398
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:07,000
I mean, you give them a five-year ban, you know, or, you know, disbar them.

399
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,000
Yeah.

400
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,000
Permanently.

401
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,000
Yeah, I would like that.

402
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,000
Yeah.

403
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,000
Well, it depends how grave the crime was.

404
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,000
I mean, and it seems a bit redundant.

405
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,000
It's like he can't do these jobs while he's serving time.

406
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,000
It's like, you know, really, you have to say that.

407
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,000
Yeah.

408
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:28,000
And then it's like, you know, if he goes to jail for two years, he can't practice law for at least two years.

409
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:29,000
Right.

410
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,000
So he's going to anyway, yeah, exactly.

411
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,000
If he was, that would be ironic.

412
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:35,000
Yeah.

413
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,000
My lawyer is in jail.

414
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,000
Maybe Wally's in jail.

415
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,000
He's helping out of the prisoners by giving them legal advice.

416
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,000
I mean, that is reform, right?

417
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,000
That's your reform yourself there.

418
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,000
You're actually helping real people.

419
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,000
Maybe that's the only time it's allowed to.

420
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,000
Anyway.

421
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,000
So, okay.

422
00:38:52,000 --> 00:39:00,000
So you might notice that I said the bill, the Biscayah prosecutor's office had requested one sentencing.

423
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,000
Right.

424
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,000
There was two years and then public.

425
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:03,000
Yeah.

426
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,000
And it doesn't know what it means.

427
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,000
And then there was the popular accusation.

428
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,000
Yeah.

429
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:08,000
Right.

430
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,000
So what is that?

431
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,000
Right.

432
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,000
Well, let me tell you about this.

433
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,000
I know.

434
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,000
Yes.

435
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,000
I learned a lot about the system.

436
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,000
Okay.

437
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:21,000
So this is a procedural figure that allows public participation of any citizen in justice.

438
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:27,000
It constitutes one of the ways to appear in the judicial process as an accuser.

439
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,000
The other two ways are the private accusation and the public prosecutor's office.

440
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,000
Okay.

441
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,000
Okay.

442
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:45,000
So Article 101 of the criminal procedural law establishes that criminal action is public and that any Spanish citizen can bring it even if they're not directly affected by the crime.

443
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,000
It's also regulated in Article 125 of the Spanish constitution.

444
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,000
Okay.

445
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,000
So who can exercise popular accusation?

446
00:39:53,000 --> 00:40:02,000
Any physical or legal person who is a Spanish citizen and enjoys full civil rights may present themselves voluntarily in popular accusation.

447
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,000
So not us, Julie.

448
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:04,000
No.

449
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,000
Well, I guess not because we're not citizens.

450
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,000
So now we can't.

451
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,000
We can't.

452
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:18,000
It can only be used for public crimes for the defense of society and legality, but not in private crimes or in military criminal procedures.

453
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,000
So isn't that interesting?

454
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,000
And remember when I went to that court...

455
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,000
It's a shame the military get out of it.

456
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,000
Yeah.

457
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,000
I want to be there.

458
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,000
Sorry, go on.

459
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,000
I want to be there.

460
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:44,000
When I went to that trial, one of the things that I was kind of surprised by was that there were several different people on the prosecution side and they represented different parts of the...

461
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:49,000
How should I say it? Like they represented different entities, I guess.

462
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:57,000
Like one was for gender violence laws or something, you know.

463
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:09,000
So like there was the prosecution, the prosecution's office of Vizcaya was there, but then there were also two or three other lawyers that were representing different entities for that case.

464
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,000
Interesting.

465
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,000
As part of the popular accusation, I guess.

466
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,000
That sounds very healthy if they're listened to.

467
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,000
Yeah.

468
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,000
So, well, I guess they're given the same weight.

469
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,000
No, I don't know.

470
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:31,000
They were all given the opportunity to question and request what sentencing they thought was appropriate.

471
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,000
You know, so they're all part of it.

472
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,000
Yeah, it sounds healthy.

473
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,000
I'm liking it.

474
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:38,000
Very interesting.

475
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:39,000
Yeah, I do like it.

476
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,000
Because not like that in the States.

477
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,000
No.

478
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,000
No.

479
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,000
Okay, so the popular accusation in this case was representing various unions.

480
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,000
Okay.

481
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,000
Okay.

482
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:55,000
So it was headed primarily by the labor unions Lab and Esk, L-A-B-E-S-K.

483
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,000
Right.

484
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,000
Which are...

485
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,000
Pretty big unions.

486
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,000
Yeah.

487
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:12,000
They included other unions such as STI Elias or STEE-EILAS, EHNE, and HIRIU.

488
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,000
H-I-I-R-U.

489
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,000
Yeah.

490
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:23,000
Also being represented was the social organizations EKA, BASC Association of Consumers and Users.

491
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,000
And the last one was the Uscalaría Pensioners Platform.

492
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:31,000
Okay, so all of these people were being represented by the popular accusation.

493
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,000
Okay, so it's under one umbrella.

494
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:38,000
Yeah, all of them kind of combined to be part of the prosecution in this case.

495
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:39,000
Okay.

496
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,000
Interesting.

497
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,000
Yeah.

498
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,840
So because Cuchibink is a somewhat public financial institution, these unions and social

499
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:49,000
organizations that made up the popular accusation felt that this was a public crime.

500
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,000
Indeed.

501
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:55,480
I think they get some sort of public funding for certain things, which is why they're considered

502
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:56,480
sort of public.

503
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:57,480
Yeah, I just wanted to.

504
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:58,480
Yeah.

505
00:42:58,480 --> 00:42:59,480
I like that.

506
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:07,040
In these preliminary proceedings, the three defendants requested a out front dismissal

507
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:08,040
of the case.

508
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:09,040
This is absurd.

509
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:10,040
We're upstanding law.

510
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:11,040
What?

511
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:12,040
Yeah.

512
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:13,040
Yeah.

513
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:19,800
And especially, they wanted a dismissal, especially because Cuchibink didn't appear as one of

514
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:20,800
its prosecutors.

515
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,080
That's an interesting point.

516
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:24,800
I kind of...

517
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,440
It sounds like some lawyer was like, listen, you guys, we can just ask for a dismissal

518
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:34,200
because the entity that you've supposedly harmed isn't actually here accusing you of

519
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:35,200
anything.

520
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:36,200
Right?

521
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:37,200
It's an interesting situation.

522
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,200
Yeah.

523
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,560
However, the court decided to proceed with a trial which formally accused the three men

524
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:47,880
of having acted in coordination to pay Cabiefe's salary that represented an economic loss to

525
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,880
Cuchibank to the tune of 243,000 euros.

526
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:53,160
Okay.

527
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,560
So the trial would eventually be held in February of 2017.

528
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,720
Okay.

529
00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:02,880
These preliminary hearings took place in 2050.

530
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:03,880
Okay.

531
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:04,880
Okay.

532
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,800
So let's go to the trial.

533
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:14,040
At the outset of the trial, the labor union lab, LAB, who was at the forefront of the

534
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,680
popular accusation, held a rally in front of the courthouse in Bilbao with the slogan

535
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,000
No to Fraud.

536
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:27,240
You might remember these demonstrations happening around town during the trial because I remember

537
00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:28,240
this.

538
00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:34,880
I remember seeing like a lot of demonstrations in front of like the Cuchibank on Granvilla.

539
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:35,880
Right.

540
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:42,720
When I was researching this, I was like, Oh yeah, I remember that with all these, you

541
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:44,480
know, for several, several weeks.

542
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:45,480
Yeah.

543
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,960
I mean, I'm, I'm scratching my brain.

544
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:48,960
It's not saying anything.

545
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,160
Maybe because you probably aren't on Granvilla that much.

546
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,440
And I was, I was there because I was walking to work, you know.

547
00:44:54,440 --> 00:45:01,600
Granvilla for, for our listeners is, is equivalent to the British high street or main street

548
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,320
in America, main street in America.

549
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:04,320
Exactly.

550
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,560
And it would be, yeah, the Granvilla, the great way.

551
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:12,840
So it would be lots of cities have a Granvilla in Bilbao.

552
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:13,840
Lopesteado, isn't it?

553
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:14,840
That's the name.

554
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,880
Granvilla Lopesteado is not the same thing.

555
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,120
I don't know.

556
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:20,920
Anyway, we have one.

557
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:27,320
No, but I do remember, I do remember there being a lot of protests in front of the bank.

558
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:28,320
Okay.

559
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:29,320
Okay.

560
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:33,280
So, um, at the trial, which lasted three days, what do you think these men used as their

561
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:34,680
defense?

562
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:41,200
I think they were all in Dubai for three months and they have photos of them in this seven

563
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,320
star hotel the whole time and they have to be in that's where they were.

564
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:46,320
Yeah.

565
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,120
They were in Dubai in a cab.

566
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:49,880
Mario was not running the bank.

567
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,800
No, Rafael was not in charge of his law firm.

568
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,120
I mean, he was on the phone, you know.

569
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:57,120
Yeah.

570
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,200
I guess you could commit a crime from Dubai as well.

571
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:00,200
Right?

572
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:01,200
Yeah.

573
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:08,360
If these guys have to specify you can't be a lawyer whilst you're in prison.

574
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:12,800
Yeah, I suppose it could be a lawyer from Dubai.

575
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:20,880
I can't, I can't think of, I mean, these justifications to me always sound ridiculous.

576
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,160
So I could come up with anything ridiculous.

577
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,200
Well, they did try to defend themselves.

578
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:26,200
Okay.

579
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:27,200
So we'll get into that.

580
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,040
Um, should we take a break though before we do?

581
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,080
Let's do that before we go to the trial.

582
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,120
Okay, let's take a break.

583
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,120
See you guys soon.

584
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:43,080
Okay, we're back.

585
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,040
We're back.

586
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,040
Okay.

587
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:53,040
So let's start with Mario Fernandez, the president of the bank, right?

588
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:59,520
According to Mario, he was contacted by quote, a high ranking individual from a political

589
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:07,080
party and two others from another organization or political party to try to find some of

590
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:13,880
some kind of job opportunity for Mikhail Kavyev is, but not a paid position end quote.

591
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:14,880
Okay.

592
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:16,160
Okay.

593
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:23,560
So he didn't publicly name any of these people who contacted him with this request, obviously.

594
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:28,200
But what do you think he meant by not a paid position?

595
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:34,200
Like not a legit job, not like a job, you know, a job, but not a job, right?

596
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,360
I mean, I think about the poor lawyer.

597
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,920
He just came out of law school 30 years ago.

598
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:40,520
He needs some training, right?

599
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:42,800
He needs some, what do you call it?

600
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,040
What do you call it when you're like making coffee for the guys?

601
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:47,040
Like an intern?

602
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,040
Exactly.

603
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:49,760
He's an internship at the bank.

604
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:55,120
Just to prove that just to prove what interns do.

605
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:56,800
He knows.

606
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:01,480
He knows what's, you know, unless you're an intern in the best country, then you're required

607
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:07,440
to be like to do the actual job of the position that you've been hired for, but you're being

608
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:08,680
paid as an intern.

609
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:09,680
Yeah.

610
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:10,680
I mean, clearly not.

611
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,680
Cause this guy is like, you know, right?

612
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:13,680
No, not in this case.

613
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:14,680
Yeah.

614
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:15,680
I don't think that was the case here.

615
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:17,680
That's why I was being ironic.

616
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:18,680
Yeah.

617
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:23,080
They weren't looking for an internship.

618
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:27,180
So he went on to say that this was common practice for people in a situation like that

619
00:48:27,180 --> 00:48:31,240
of Mikhail's as an ex delegate leading politics.

620
00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:36,600
He insisted that at all times his actions were about finding and giving him a job and

621
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:40,840
not about paying him for services that were not going to be provided.

622
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:46,920
He went on to say that he was willing to help out Mikhail because it was his social duty

623
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:51,920
to protect and assist those who've been on the front lines, politically speaking, of

624
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:53,520
the fight against terrorism.

625
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,000
Oh my gosh.

626
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,760
That is so one sided.

627
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:58,760
Sure.

628
00:48:58,760 --> 00:48:59,760
I'm listening to this.

629
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:00,760
Uh huh.

630
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:04,520
At this point, anyone who's from the best country or lives here knows that this is a

631
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:10,280
reference to Etta, who I told you about at the beginning of the story.

632
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:15,960
So at this time, I won't be going into Etta at any length, but for the purposes of this

633
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:21,240
story as it pertains to part of his defense, I'll mention what he had said at the trial.

634
00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:27,280
So in his testimony, Mario brought up the story of a former civil governor of Kipuskwa,

635
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:35,040
Juan Maria Jauregui, who'd had a similar position, a political position as Mikhail.

636
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:41,720
Upon retirement from that position, the Spanish government posted Jauregui to live in Chile.

637
00:49:41,720 --> 00:49:48,200
It was when he returned to Kipuskwa for a holiday or vacation and without his bodyguard,

638
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:53,760
who usually accompanied him, that he was shot and killed while sitting at a cafe in Tolosa,

639
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:58,280
which is a small town near San Sebastian, Dinostia.

640
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:02,440
So Mario Fernandez was using this story to bolster his cred that he was just trying to

641
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:07,840
fulfill his civic duty to help Mikhail out with a job.

642
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:14,440
One article from El Español stated, quote, Fernandez assured the court that his actions

643
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:19,560
were motivated by the socio-political context of the Basque country and the unwritten rule

644
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:24,560
of collaborating in the return to civilian life of those who actively participated in

645
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,960
the fight against ETA.

646
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,840
So that's his defense or part of his defense.

647
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:31,840
Sounds very odd.

648
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:33,560
Coming back to civilian life?

649
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:34,560
Where were you in prison?

650
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:38,040
Like, I mean, surely you were a government officer.

651
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,560
Sounds like you were dodging bullets.

652
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,320
Or that they were like, you know, posted in Chile fighting ETA.

653
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:46,320
I mean, come on.

654
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:47,320
I know.

655
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:48,320
OK.

656
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:49,320
Yeah.

657
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:50,320
Sure.

658
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,440
That was his try.

659
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:53,440
Not impressing Douglas.

660
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:58,360
I can see that from your face.

661
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:03,440
For listeners, Douglas is not impressed by his face.

662
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:09,360
Additionally, it seems that some bad blood resurfaced during the trial and in Mario's

663
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:10,640
testimony.

664
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:15,120
So according to an article in El País, Mario Fernandez was replaced as the president of

665
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:21,840
Cucha Bank when he fell out of favor with PNV, the Basque Nationalist Party, the conservative

666
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,400
one that's been in power for a long as time.

667
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:25,400
Indeed.

668
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:31,320
Due to his commitment to bringing in new investors into the bank, whose only shareholders at

669
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:39,280
the time continued to be the three savings banks from the merger of BBK, Cucha and Vidal,

670
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:43,440
which were now converted under his leadership into banking foundations.

671
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:44,560
OK.

672
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:51,680
So I suppose that the politicians and the unions that, you know, because a lot of times

673
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:57,520
these political parties also have unions support and right.

674
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:59,600
So I think they had an issue with him.

675
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:06,600
Therefore, they replaced him because the bank was now becoming more privatized as a business,

676
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,040
less of a public institution.

677
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:15,600
As as savings banks, the Cuchas were as a savings bank.

678
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:20,720
Now this is some information I got from my friend Natalia.

679
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:24,800
Saving banks are required to reinvest into the communities that they serve.

680
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:25,800
OK.

681
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:26,800
Yes.

682
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,480
So that's my that's what my friend Natalia gave me.

683
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,560
That's the information he gave me, like the difference between a savings bank and then

684
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:35,040
like a bank bank.

685
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:36,040
Yeah.

686
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:37,040
Right.

687
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:46,760
So I'm not going to remain unnamed Cucha that they're a great part of their giving back

688
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:52,200
to society is and you'll recognize this when I tell you, do you know the sort of schemes

689
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:58,640
that you have that are, you know, very typical of many Cuchas, which is like deposit a thousand

690
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,280
euros here and you'll get a free pressure cooker.

691
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,520
I can't tell you how many beds we have.

692
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:09,120
So all those things, they are counted as giving back to society.

693
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:10,120
Yeah.

694
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,080
So I'm just saying I believe it.

695
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,000
I totally believe it.

696
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,200
Surely that's marketing.

697
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:22,680
And people are looking at me going, OK, so additionally, as part of Mario's defense,

698
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:28,760
he claimed that he'd made good on this discrepancy in the books at Cucha Bank, i.e. the money

699
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,960
paid to Cavieffes in exchange for his services of labor lawyer.

700
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:38,520
So when this was brought to Mario's attention by the new president and the board of directors,

701
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:45,600
like when they found this little discrepancy discrepancy in the books, he immediately wrote

702
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:53,400
a check to Cucha Bank on January 13th, 2015 for two hundred and forty three thousand nine

703
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,240
five hundred ninety two euros.

704
00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:58,360
What an efficient gentleman out of his own pocket.

705
00:53:58,360 --> 00:53:59,360
I mean, yeah.

706
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:05,640
First of all, this guy's minted like if you were asked to write a check for that amount,

707
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:07,600
it would take me a lifetime or months.

708
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:13,560
It would take me a lifetime or a few lifetimes to write a check in that amount in the sense

709
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:18,120
that even if you don't have that, you could ask for loans in months.

710
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:19,120
That's what I meant.

711
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:23,360
OK, like I don't mean like damn Douglas.

712
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:30,000
I mean, again, I could sell my apartment in months and then use that money, but I can't

713
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,520
get to two hundred and forty two hundred and forty thousand.

714
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:34,520
Yeah.

715
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:38,400
So, yeah, he had the cash on hand, wrote a check on the spot.

716
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:39,840
How nice.

717
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:44,240
So he had thought that he'd satisfied the new president and the board of directors by

718
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:47,280
resolving this issue by throwing money at it.

719
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:54,400
But he was sorely mistaken because only 18 days later, the alabeta of the new president

720
00:54:54,400 --> 00:55:00,520
or Betty, no, be at La Beatia would denounce him before the best prosecutor's office and

721
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:04,720
start this whole shit show.

722
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:07,320
So I'm going to say that was a good decision.

723
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:12,400
Yeah, I'm going to say that these two guys didn't have.

724
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,200
I have a feeling they want to take him down.

725
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,920
Regardless, he tried to throw some money at it.

726
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,520
Like, oh, no, no, guys, come on, let's just forget about it.

727
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:21,520
Yeah.

728
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,560
And he tried to dislike, oh, here, here's the money.

729
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:25,160
Clearly don't ask about any more questions.

730
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:26,160
Don't do anything about this.

731
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:27,160
Clearly.

732
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,120
And then he was like, man, I'm going to take this.

733
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:34,000
But even the substitution of him as head of Bibicca sounded like it was political.

734
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:35,520
So, you know, it's all.

735
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,640
Yeah, it was definitely levers.

736
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:43,520
Sounds like the political parties have a say in who becomes the president of these.

737
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:44,520
Oh, they do, though.

738
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:45,520
They definitely do.

739
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:50,040
But because which is kind of strange to me, but I don't know if that's that's why it's

740
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,040
a semi public institution.

741
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:53,040
Yeah.

742
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:58,400
I mean, clearly giving money from your pocket shouldn't be a part of it.

743
00:55:58,400 --> 00:55:59,400
Yeah.

744
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,560
It's just not like how could you justify that?

745
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:03,920
He's like, yeah, he's admitting.

746
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,680
Yeah, he is by giving the check to them.

747
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:07,680
Yeah.

748
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:08,680
Right there.

749
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:09,680
Right.

750
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:10,680
Yeah.

751
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:11,680
Like he knew what he had done.

752
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:12,680
Yeah.

753
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:13,680
Was not cool.

754
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:14,680
Yeah.

755
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:15,680
And was fraud.

756
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:17,960
It sounds like he was defrauding the bank.

757
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:18,960
Yeah.

758
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:19,960
So.

759
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:20,960
Yeah.

760
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:21,960
I'm with you, Jones.

761
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:22,960
I'm with you.

762
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:23,960
OK.

763
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:30,360
So in his testimony, he explained that there were certain lines he wouldn't cross in providing

764
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:36,640
this quote job for Mikkel, one of which was that Mikkel would never actually hold a position

765
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,640
at Coochie Bank.

766
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:42,800
So he didn't want him to be working directly with the bank at all.

767
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,920
Which which is true because it doesn't seem like he did anything.

768
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:48,360
No, no.

769
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:52,160
But he did what he could to find him something.

770
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:53,160
OK.

771
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:57,920
So he also wants to find a job where I don't need to do anything or get no shit.

772
00:56:57,920 --> 00:56:58,920
Right.

773
00:56:58,920 --> 00:56:59,920
Isn't that the dream?

774
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:02,640
Even if I don't get a salary, it's like, yeah, I work full time at a bank.

775
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:03,640
That's nice.

776
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:05,240
You know, on paper.

777
00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:10,920
I mean, if they say I'm working 40 hours, I mean, I can retire now.

778
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:11,920
Right.

779
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,280
I guess.

780
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:19,160
He also stressed in his testimony that he never intended to harm Coochie Bank.

781
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:23,320
And in case there were any doubters out there, he reminded the court that he'd paid the money

782
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,320
back in an afternoon.

783
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:27,320
An afternoon.

784
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:28,920
Yeah, I like that.

785
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:29,920
Yeah, I like that.

786
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,120
How he's highlighting how easy it was for him.

787
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:33,120
Yeah.

788
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:34,120
Yeah.

789
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:38,960
He continued to regale the court with self congratulatory, self congratulatory spiels

790
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:44,160
like thanks to myself and my team, Coochie Bank was a masterpiece.

791
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:49,120
And the mere suspicion that I could have personally caused damage to the bank disgusts me.

792
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,200
No, I imagine my mistakes.

793
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,780
Oh, the gentleman.

794
00:57:54,780 --> 00:57:55,780
You make it come alive.

795
00:57:55,780 --> 00:57:56,780
Right.

796
00:57:56,780 --> 00:57:57,780
He's the victim here.

797
00:57:57,780 --> 00:57:58,780
Right.

798
00:57:58,780 --> 00:57:59,780
All right.

799
00:57:59,780 --> 00:58:00,780
So that was me.

800
00:58:00,780 --> 00:58:01,780
That was Mario's defense.

801
00:58:01,780 --> 00:58:02,780
Right.

802
00:58:02,780 --> 00:58:06,320
So let's move on to Mikkel Mikkel.

803
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:13,600
Mikkel claimed that in 2012, after resigning from holding political office, he joined the

804
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:19,880
law offices of Rafael Corta, Coochie Bank's external labor advisor.

805
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:27,680
He testified that it was Rafael Alcorta who contacted him and offered him a job for matters

806
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,280
that related to Coochie Bank and his law practice.

807
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,640
Already some inconsistencies here.

808
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:34,120
Yeah, they didn't get together.

809
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,040
Yeah, he's never talked to Mario.

810
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:42,560
He said he had he said, quote, he had every intention of returning to work as a labor

811
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,960
lawyer after leaving the front lines of political activity.

812
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:46,960
Quotes.

813
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:53,040
So don't you just love how these guys keep using like war metaphors to refer to their

814
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:54,040
time in politics?

815
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,400
Yeah, it's a little hyperbolic.

816
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:57,400
No, absolutely.

817
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:01,280
I mean, by that time, at that was barely active.

818
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:03,280
Yeah, as if.

819
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:10,520
So despite despite the fact that he'd not practiced law since 1990, he maintained that

820
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:15,120
he was perfectly qualified for this advisory type of work.

821
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:24,000
He vehemently denied that he has ever in his life been paid for doing nothing in exchange,

822
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,240
which you know, I find really hard to believe as a politician.

823
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:27,240
Oh, yeah.

824
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:28,240
But you did not.

825
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:30,840
Then you get a salary.

826
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:31,840
Isn't that enough proof?

827
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,160
Excuse me.

828
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:37,560
I mean, I don't know.

829
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:42,720
OK, so he insisted that he was paid for his work as a legal consultant to Coochie Bank.

830
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:47,640
Moreover, he claimed that he was completely unaware that Mario Fernandez had obtained

831
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:49,800
a position for him at the bank.

832
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:52,320
This was all news to him.

833
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:56,720
He's never he you know, it's all news to him because he never actually applied for such

834
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:57,720
a position.

835
00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,960
Oh, the plot thing.

836
00:59:59,960 --> 01:00:03,600
According to him, he just got a call from Rafael one day to say, hey, come work for

837
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:07,840
me and I want you to be in charge of the Coochie Bank.

838
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:08,840
And he said no.

839
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:10,320
And he took the job.

840
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:12,680
Oh, it was like he was contacted.

841
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:13,680
All right.

842
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:14,680
OK.

843
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,080
And no idea that Mario had anything to do with him.

844
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:18,080
OK.

845
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:19,520
But he claims he did some work.

846
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:21,000
I'm seeing it looks like it's.

847
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:22,000
Oh, yeah.

848
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:23,000
Yeah.

849
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:24,000
So he yeah.

850
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:25,000
He had no idea that it was Coochie Bank.

851
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:26,000
He was paying his salary.

852
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:27,000
Oh, really?

853
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,000
Five thousand eight hundred euros a month.

854
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,360
How convenient just for he was, he thought it was the law firm that he was not working

855
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:34,360
for.

856
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:35,360
Yeah.

857
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:36,360
And he was offered a job.

858
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:40,200
Just just in case you're not used to Europe, that's about the same as dollars.

859
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:43,240
So it's like almost six thousand dollars per month.

860
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:44,240
Yeah.

861
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:45,240
Yeah.

862
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:48,840
Now, as evidenced in court at the time, in Mikkel's hiring, Coochie Bank had suddenly

863
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:54,840
increased its monthly payments to the offices of Rafael Corto in precisely that amount,

864
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:57,800
the five thousand eight hundred a month.

865
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,760
And it seems all of that was being paid directly to Mikkel.

866
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:01,760
Yeah.

867
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:03,640
Like I just said.

868
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:08,920
So he was questioned at trial about whether or not he actually worked for Alcorta's office,

869
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:15,800
to which they found the prosecution found that he went sporadically, quote, and without

870
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:20,320
stating the frequency or volume and intensity of the work that he fulfilled for the law

871
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:21,320
office.

872
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:22,320
Mm hmm.

873
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:23,320
OK.

874
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:24,320
Mm hmm.

875
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:28,800
And he had many reports or meetings in the bank's records to show that he was ever advising

876
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:30,360
Coochie Bank at all.

877
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:31,360
OK.

878
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:37,000
So in my research, I never found that Mikkel had produced any evidence in court to demonstrate

879
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,240
that he did, in fact, provide any work for Coochie Bank.

880
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:44,800
You'd think, you know, that would try his best defense in this case is like, here's

881
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:45,800
what I did.

882
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:50,360
These are the cases I tried or these are the, you know, labor disputes that I consulted

883
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:51,360
on.

884
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:52,360
Yeah.

885
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:53,360
Something.

886
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:55,760
He brought nothing to court.

887
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:56,760
Yeah.

888
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:57,760
OK.

889
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:58,760
To show that he actually did work.

890
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:00,960
He just basically just to take my word for it was his defense.

891
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,160
Take my word for it that I did work.

892
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:04,160
OK.

893
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:08,640
So we'll take a break here and then I'll continue with Mikkel's testimony.

894
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:11,640
Let's do that.

895
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:18,080
All right.

896
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:19,080
We're back.

897
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:20,520
We're back.

898
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:21,760
OK.

899
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:27,800
So we're going to continue here with Mikkel's testimony in court.

900
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,600
Mikkel stood by his claims that he'd done nothing wrong.

901
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:36,880
He had done his job and that he felt victimized by these slanderous claims of corruption to

902
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:41,620
benefit him financially at the expense of Coochie Bank's assets.

903
01:02:41,620 --> 01:02:47,080
So he went on to lament the fact that in January of 2015, when these allegations came to light,

904
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:53,600
that he was encouraged by party leaders to leave his political party, the PSE hyphen EE.

905
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:59,960
So the Bass Socialist Party and the left wing party.

906
01:02:59,960 --> 01:03:05,680
So in a statement at the time, the Uscadi Socialist Party explained that as these facts

907
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:12,760
were known or were found out, the general secretary of the Bass Socialist, Idoia Mendia,

908
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:18,280
asked Mikkel for clarification on the matter.

909
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:21,760
After receiving this is like from an article, right?

910
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,960
So I'm reading this kind of like what was said.

911
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:29,940
After receiving the appropriate explanations, the general secretary and Kabietis himself

912
01:03:29,940 --> 01:03:35,200
have agreed to the latter's resignation from his position as secretary of institutional

913
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:40,040
reforms of the executive commission of Uscadi.

914
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:46,640
In addition, Kabietis has requested his temporary dismissal as a party member so that no one

915
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:50,640
can use this matter against the organization.

916
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:52,560
Sounds responsible for the party.

917
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:54,680
I mean, yeah.

918
01:03:54,680 --> 01:04:01,480
But wait for this Douglas, you got to hold on to that chapella a little harder now.

919
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:03,260
Hold on tight.

920
01:04:03,260 --> 01:04:08,280
It wasn't only these accusations that the party leaders felt would invite negative attention

921
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:09,280
to the party.

922
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:16,320
Oh, in addition to the corruption and misappropriation charges being levied against him, Mikkel was

923
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:21,240
also going to be criminally charged by the popular accusation, right?

924
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:27,760
Headed by those labor unions and other like social organizations for collecting unemployment

925
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:32,280
benefits from 2012 to 2013.

926
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:34,000
Oh, yeah.

927
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:37,200
Can you believe this guy?

928
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:41,360
Like I'm assuming he was working at the same time.

929
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:42,360
Yeah.

930
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:43,360
Yeah.

931
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:44,360
Yeah.

932
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:50,840
So it was found during this year that he received 14,000 euros while drawing a combined salary

933
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:55,880
of 110 euros a year from Coochie Bank and Iberdrola.

934
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:56,880
110,000 110,000.

935
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:57,880
Yeah.

936
01:04:57,880 --> 01:04:58,880
What did I say?

937
01:04:58,880 --> 01:04:59,880
110 dollars.

938
01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:10,520
110,000 euros from Coochie Bank and Iberdrola, which I suppose he was also working for, right?

939
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:15,400
In addition to his work at his work, quote unquote, at Coochie Bank.

940
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:22,360
We always think like the system would realize if we're getting a salary whilst we're getting

941
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:23,480
unemployment benefits.

942
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:25,640
Funny how and what was this 2017?

943
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:28,640
It was 2012, 2012, 2013.

944
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:30,280
2013, 2013.

945
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,120
Collecting this unemployment.

946
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:35,920
More leeway for the automatic system not to be working, but come on.

947
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:36,920
Yeah.

948
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:37,920
Come on.

949
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:38,920
All right.

950
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:40,880
So I'm going to go into what that was all about.

951
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:41,880
Okay.

952
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:46,720
So in court, Mikkel denied this claim and explained that he did request unemployment benefits

953
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:53,040
after leaving his post as a government delegate in January of 2012 because he was in fact

954
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:55,080
unemployed at the time.

955
01:05:55,080 --> 01:06:01,160
He went on to say that he only received those benefits until March 1st of that year, approximately

956
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:03,000
like a month and a half.

957
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:11,800
So according to him, so it was in March that he registered in the special regime, sorry,

958
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:17,560
the special regime for self-employed workers to practice as a lawyer.

959
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,560
So basically he's self-employed from March.

960
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:25,360
So yeah, as a result of this new status by registering as a self-employed worker, he

961
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:30,440
claims that anything he received from March 1st on was not technically an unemployment

962
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:31,440
benefit.

963
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:32,440
Okay.

964
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:33,440
So stay with me.

965
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:34,440
I'm a bit already.

966
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:35,440
No.

967
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:36,440
Okay.

968
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:37,440
I'm going to explain.

969
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:42,960
So when registering, he opted for what's called quote, the capitalization of unemployment.

970
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:47,800
So this is an option that allows those who are unemployed to become self-employed and

971
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,720
to receive an ENEM benefit.

972
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:55,280
ENEM stands for the National Employment Institute.

973
01:06:55,280 --> 01:07:00,080
This benefit would be identical to their social security contribution at the start of their

974
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:01,080
new activity.

975
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:02,080
That's a typical thing.

976
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:04,400
So what you're being paid in unemployment.

977
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:08,960
If you have to file for unemployment, it's your social security contribution that you're

978
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:09,960
being paid.

979
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:10,960
Right.

980
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:13,600
It's based on your previous salary.

981
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:17,200
So whatever your unemployment benefit would be is what you would receive while you're

982
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:19,640
getting on your feet as a free agent.

983
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:20,640
Right.

984
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:25,840
In other words, he continued to receive the same monthly benefit, but it wasn't exactly

985
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:28,440
considered unemployment.

986
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:32,160
It was a benefit that I suppose is there to help those who are getting themselves set

987
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:35,520
up as a newly self-employed individual.

988
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:36,520
Right.

989
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:37,520
Yeah.

990
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:43,120
So he was being accused by the popular accusation of defrauding the social security system by

991
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:47,400
collecting this benefit when he clearly wasn't struggling for an income.

992
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:48,400
Yeah.

993
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:49,400
Well, clearly not.

994
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:50,400
No.

995
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:55,240
An allegation that Mikael found to be, quote, flatly false and slanderous.

996
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:56,240
Wow.

997
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:57,240
I'm sorry.

998
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:58,240
I do like my indignation.

999
01:07:58,240 --> 01:07:59,240
Your indignation voice.

1000
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:00,240
It works.

1001
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:01,240
It works.

1002
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:09,240
He pointed out that this came about at a particularly convenient time for the popular accusation

1003
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:11,280
as it was during elections.

1004
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:13,640
This came all about during an election period.

1005
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:14,640
Yeah.

1006
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:16,360
You can't get away from those, can you?

1007
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:17,360
Yeah.

1008
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:20,240
And where this could be like weaponized against his party.

1009
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:21,240
Right.

1010
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:22,240
Which is a good move.

1011
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:24,280
He left that party.

1012
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:25,880
Right.

1013
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:30,880
So just to summarize how much Mikael was earning in the year from March of 2012 to March of

1014
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:40,320
2013, he got around 60,000 euros yearly from Couchubank, about 40,000 euros from Iberdrola

1015
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:45,840
and another 14,000 from his, quote, benefit from Enem.

1016
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:46,840
Okay.

1017
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:50,240
We haven't really mentioned Iberdrola yet, have we?

1018
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:51,240
No, no.

1019
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:55,160
And that's an energy company.

1020
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:56,160
Yeah.

1021
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:58,560
So, yeah, he was apparently working for them as well.

1022
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,600
Do you want to tell our listeners who they are and their...

1023
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:05,320
Iberdrola is a really big electricity company.

1024
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:07,600
I was just checking it right now.

1025
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:12,360
And today it's considered the third biggest electricity company in the world, which is

1026
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:13,360
pretty big.

1027
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:14,360
It is big, yeah.

1028
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:15,360
I knew that.

1029
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:16,360
They own...

1030
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:17,360
Didn't they merge with like a Scottish...

1031
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:20,800
Scottish Power is one of them.

1032
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:23,440
And they also have some comp...

1033
01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:25,400
They merged with another company in Eastern...

1034
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:26,880
East Coast US.

1035
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:28,960
It's New York and Philadelphia, I think.

1036
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:32,800
I forget the exact name of the company, but it's...

1037
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:34,760
There's a big merger and now they're pretty powerful.

1038
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:35,760
Yeah.

1039
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:40,560
And they own a lot of companies in Latin America as well, which is how they get to be the biggest

1040
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:41,560
country.

1041
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:48,200
And they're the second biggest producer of electricity with wind by market capitalization.

1042
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:49,200
So it's...

1043
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:54,440
They're earning the second most money from winds just after Denmark.

1044
01:09:54,440 --> 01:09:55,720
All right.

1045
01:09:55,720 --> 01:10:02,520
So it seems though, like in this trial, that the judge rejected the request of the prosecution

1046
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:11,440
offices or more specifically the popular accusation to expand the criminal investigation for alleged

1047
01:10:11,440 --> 01:10:13,160
crime against social security.

1048
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,480
So he rejected that.

1049
01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:16,480
He rejected it.

1050
01:10:16,480 --> 01:10:17,480
Yeah.

1051
01:10:17,480 --> 01:10:18,480
The judge in this case.

1052
01:10:18,480 --> 01:10:21,360
And if they wish they could open specific proceedings in this matter at a different

1053
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:31,040
time to investigate it in depth, which as of today, I never found anything about if

1054
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,720
they ever did that for 14,000 euros.

1055
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:34,720
They might not have.

1056
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:35,720
Yeah.

1057
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:38,040
Because this was in 2017, right?

1058
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:41,320
So since then there haven't been...

1059
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:42,320
Which I looked for.

1060
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:47,280
Like if there were any other stories about him being tried for this, it doesn't seem

1061
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:48,280
like there was.

1062
01:10:48,280 --> 01:10:49,280
Yeah.

1063
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:50,280
I mean...

1064
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:51,280
That they didn't pursue it.

1065
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:52,280
Yeah.

1066
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:53,280
I think it's...

1067
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:55,440
If there was a case there, especially because he's...

1068
01:10:55,440 --> 01:10:56,440
And it's 14,000 euros.

1069
01:10:56,440 --> 01:10:58,000
A politician as well.

1070
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:04,360
But even if it was 14, people would pursue it if there were easy ways in to that case,

1071
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:05,360
right?

1072
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:06,360
Yeah.

1073
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:07,360
If they had a good case.

1074
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:08,360
Yeah, exactly.

1075
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:09,360
So I don't think...

1076
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:11,160
He must have covered his back that way.

1077
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:12,160
Yeah.

1078
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:18,840
I mean, for the 14,000, there's a few dozens more thousand euros that we have to justify.

1079
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:19,840
Yeah.

1080
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:20,840
That's the whole point.

1081
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,760
He got away with his unemployment benefit.

1082
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:24,760
Yeah.

1083
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:25,760
Okay.

1084
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:30,880
So despite this being an issue they wanted to combine with the proceedings of the Kucha

1085
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:33,240
Bank case, they were denied.

1086
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:39,080
The whole point of the popular accusations involvement in these proceedings was to ask

1087
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:46,760
the PENV, the Basque Nationalists, the more conservative Basque Nationalists, the PP,

1088
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:49,360
which is the Popular Party is what it's called or translates to.

1089
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:50,360
The right-wing party.

1090
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:51,360
Right-wing party.

1091
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:57,960
And the PSC, the Basque Socialist Party, to quote, stop favor agreements and revolving

1092
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:03,480
doors as well as to quote, end the Kucha Bank privatization process.

1093
01:12:03,480 --> 01:12:04,480
Okay.

1094
01:12:04,480 --> 01:12:07,880
So that was their whole point of...

1095
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:08,880
The associations.

1096
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:15,120
... wanting to accuse, yeah, wanting to proceed with this case, I guess, that they found that

1097
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:23,200
there was just too many favors being granted for these banks, between banks and political

1098
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:29,040
parties and people within these parties to sit on boards of directors and stuff.

1099
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:35,040
And it's interesting that they want to push it way further and actually stop the privatization,

1100
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:38,600
which is a very typical left-wing demands.

1101
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:39,600
Yeah.

1102
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:45,920
But, you know, we can see there's a lot more politics coming into the conversation now.

1103
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:50,440
Like, you know, this is no longer about some thousands of euros.

1104
01:12:50,440 --> 01:12:52,760
We don't want to privatize anymore.

1105
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,360
I'm just saying they're political interests already.

1106
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:58,000
Yeah.

1107
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:02,800
The spokespersons for the popular accusation wanted to demonstrate that Mikhail Kavyaevsky

1108
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:07,640
was not hired to provide any service at the bank as he did not actually carry out much

1109
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:13,920
work as a lawyer for the office of the Alcorta firm.

1110
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:19,480
And any and all work that he did do, which proved to be minimal, was not necessary for

1111
01:13:19,480 --> 01:13:23,160
Kuchibank.

1112
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:28,200
They have denounced both the liquidation of the best savings banks, so they're pretty

1113
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:33,920
mad about that, and the privatization of Kuchibank as a, quote, breeding ground for favorable

1114
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:38,040
treatment between these political parties that I mentioned.

1115
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:39,040
Sounds like it.

1116
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:42,960
So that people like Kavyaevsky can hold positions as a member of the board of directors and

1117
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:48,400
then move on to the board of trustees and therefore make all these choices in the future.

1118
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:49,400
Okay.

1119
01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:50,960
And gain lots of salaries.

1120
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:52,960
Very problematic.

1121
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:54,640
All right.

1122
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:59,400
So let's move on to the third defendant in this case, Rafael Alcorta.

1123
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:01,840
The guy that has the law firm, right?

1124
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:02,840
Okay.

1125
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:03,840
Okay.

1126
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:07,680
So he's being charged as an accomplice in this whole debacle.

1127
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:08,680
Okay.

1128
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:14,320
So it has been established that at the beginning of 2012, Mikhail Kavyaevsky joined the law

1129
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:20,000
offices of Rafael Alcorta, who was Kuchibank's external labor advisor.

1130
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:27,360
At this time, Kuchibank increased its monthly pay to his offices to the tune of 5,800 euros,

1131
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:35,480
plus an additional 900 for travel expenses, all to be paid directly to the former, this

1132
01:14:35,480 --> 01:14:36,480
former delegate.

1133
01:14:36,480 --> 01:14:39,480
It's funny that liars always need travel expenses.

1134
01:14:39,480 --> 01:14:40,480
Right.

1135
01:14:40,480 --> 01:14:43,760
Just a little joke here.

1136
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:51,920
Alcorta testified that Kuchibank had quote, imposed the hiring of Kavyaevsky upon him

1137
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:56,720
and describing his work as essential for his law firm.

1138
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:57,720
Interesting.

1139
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:00,240
Couldn't demonstrate that, but he declared that.

1140
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:02,600
This is what he said, was told to him, right?

1141
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:04,160
They imposed it on him.

1142
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:08,920
Alcorta further detailed his interaction with Kuchibank, indicating that he'd had a conversation

1143
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:14,240
with the director of human resources at the bank, Fernando Lopez de Aguilas.

1144
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:19,700
He was saying that he had a conversation with him at the beginning of 2012.

1145
01:15:19,700 --> 01:15:26,320
He was told that he was to hire Kavyaevsky and that this request was coming directly

1146
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:30,000
from the president of the bank, Mario Fernandez.

1147
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:35,720
He testified that the HR director said, quote, this is the president's decision.

1148
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:38,720
You have a new collaborator.

1149
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:39,720
End quote.

1150
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:41,440
Sounds like bass politics.

1151
01:15:41,440 --> 01:15:48,480
I believe the tone of the conversation for sure.

1152
01:15:48,480 --> 01:15:54,200
He went on to add that he was asked to increase his monthly invoice to the bank by about 5,000

1153
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:57,880
euros to pay his salary.

1154
01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:04,560
According to Alcorta, he felt, quote, perplexed by these interactions and frustrated, quote,

1155
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:09,060
by the imposition because at the time of all this, he'd been unsuccessfully demanding a

1156
01:16:09,060 --> 01:16:13,080
substantial increase in what the bank was paying him for his services.

1157
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:14,080
My gosh.

1158
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:17,480
So you didn't give it to him, gave it some weirdo.

1159
01:16:17,480 --> 01:16:18,480
Weirdo.

1160
01:16:18,480 --> 01:16:21,920
I mean, according to his point of view.

1161
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:27,160
Like I've been wanting this money for a long time and instead they give it to this weirdo.

1162
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:38,480
He claimed that his work load from Kuja Bank had increased considerably following the recent

1163
01:16:38,480 --> 01:16:40,600
merger of the three bass savings banks.

1164
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:43,600
Because if you recall, like the merger, did I say something?

1165
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:44,600
It sounded like murder.

1166
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:45,600
I'm just making sure.

1167
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:46,600
The merger.

1168
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:47,600
The merger of the banks.

1169
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:48,600
The murder of the Kuja banks.

1170
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:49,600
Merger, darling, merger.

1171
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:53,160
The merger.

1172
01:16:53,160 --> 01:17:00,440
So he claimed that his workload had increased following the merger between the three Kuja

1173
01:17:00,440 --> 01:17:02,320
banks, right?

1174
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:08,080
Which if you recall, in 2012, this is when they imposed, they pushed Mikkel on his law

1175
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:09,760
firm, like here, hire this man.

1176
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:11,640
This man's part of your law firm.

1177
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:14,680
But the merger happened in 2012 as well.

1178
01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:22,800
So you can imagine that there was probably a lot of work for the labor lawyer.

1179
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:24,800
Indeed.

1180
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:29,840
From that point on and for the next three years, Kavietis worked with his firm as a

1181
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:35,560
collaborator in labor law for matters related to Kuja Bank.

1182
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:38,840
Collaborator was an air quotes just for listening.

1183
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:40,080
Yes.

1184
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:44,560
He also assured the court that Kavietis guaranteed him that he was perfectly qualified for the

1185
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:46,280
practice of labor law.

1186
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:51,760
And that although he had some problems with him, it sounds like they had kind of a problematic

1187
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:52,760
relationship.

1188
01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:53,760
Interesting.

1189
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:54,760
Mikkel.

1190
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:57,360
I mean, it would be if he wasn't doing anything.

1191
01:17:57,360 --> 01:17:58,360
Yeah.

1192
01:17:58,360 --> 01:17:59,360
And he got pushed on to him.

1193
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:01,920
He's like, I didn't actually want to hire you, but here you are.

1194
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:03,400
Finally how we're believing this.

1195
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:06,520
He's the only one with some slightly believable information.

1196
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:07,520
Yeah.

1197
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:08,720
Oh, one hundred and forty thousand.

1198
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:09,720
Here you go.

1199
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:10,720
Yeah.

1200
01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:13,720
He sounds like the only one that's making some sense so far.

1201
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:21,760
Yeah, he did say he had some problems with him, but later that the collaboration was

1202
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:22,760
fluid and correct.

1203
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:25,360
I don't know what that means.

1204
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:26,360
We didn't talk.

1205
01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:27,360
He got a salary.

1206
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:31,360
That's from Google Translate fluid, very fluid and correct.

1207
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:34,480
That's why I put it in quotes.

1208
01:18:34,480 --> 01:18:37,760
So it went smoothly and it was quite appropriate.

1209
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:38,760
Appropriate.

1210
01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:39,760
Yeah, it sounds good.

1211
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:40,760
Good translation.

1212
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:46,520
He went on to say that Mikkel did have a good command of labor law, but when it came to

1213
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:49,800
judicial, judicial and legal practice, he was less qualified.

1214
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:55,440
So I guess like in the courtroom or maybe filings or I don't know.

1215
01:18:55,440 --> 01:18:56,960
I'm not a lawyer.

1216
01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:01,400
It sounded like you said he he didn't have a good court, right?

1217
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:02,400
Yeah.

1218
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:03,400
But he never.

1219
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:04,400
Right.

1220
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:05,400
He hadn't done it since like 1990.

1221
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:09,880
So when it came to that kind of stuff, he was not as qualified.

1222
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:17,120
Rafa went on to note that it seemed to him that Mikkel had quote very interesting context

1223
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:19,160
within the bank.

1224
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:21,840
Sounds like it.

1225
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:22,840
Yeah.

1226
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:26,880
Furthermore, the increase that he was asked to invoice the bank wasn't a particularly

1227
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:29,000
striking amount.

1228
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:32,640
And at the time, it didn't raise any red flags for him.

1229
01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:41,400
But when it came time to end this collaboration with Kavya or Mikkel in 2014, the bank asked

1230
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:48,760
Rafael to invoice him for I guess what would be the severance pay for Kavya.

1231
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:49,760
Right.

1232
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:53,600
So he's apparently working for the law for this law firm.

1233
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:54,600
Yeah.

1234
01:19:54,600 --> 01:20:00,280
But then the contract they wanted for Mikkel was a three year thing.

1235
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:01,280
Oh, right.

1236
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:02,280
OK.

1237
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:06,760
So I think that's what originally it started out as like it's only going to be three years.

1238
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:07,760
Sure.

1239
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:08,760
That we're going to give him this job.

1240
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:09,760
Sure.

1241
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:12,760
I'm believing you.

1242
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:17,440
Also, I'm making a lot of speculations at this point, having read all this.

1243
01:20:17,440 --> 01:20:18,440
OK.

1244
01:20:18,440 --> 01:20:23,760
That I feel like they probably knew they could get away with it for three years, maybe sort

1245
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:24,760
of thing.

1246
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:25,760
Yeah, I got the vibe.

1247
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:26,760
Let's do this for three years.

1248
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:27,760
Yeah, I got that.

1249
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:28,760
And that's it.

1250
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:29,760
That's the only thing we're going to do for him.

1251
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:30,760
And then he can go.

1252
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:31,760
We can get away.

1253
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:33,320
We can get some more applications and get another job somewhere else.

1254
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:35,160
Yeah, we can get away with this for three years.

1255
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:36,160
It sounded like that.

1256
01:20:36,160 --> 01:20:37,160
Right.

1257
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:38,160
Yeah.

1258
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:44,760
So when they contacted Alcorta or Rafael to end it, they also asked for like an increase

1259
01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:52,240
in the payment or the invoice that was being sent to Kuchibank, like for the severance pay.

1260
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:53,240
OK.

1261
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:54,240
Yeah.

1262
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:59,280
But Alcorta, when this happened, Alcorta warned the bank that he could only bill them

1263
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:04,680
for services provided, so what he could prove that the firm had provided to the bank.

1264
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:05,680
Right.

1265
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:07,480
He's on his he knows what he's doing.

1266
01:21:07,480 --> 01:21:08,480
What he's doing.

1267
01:21:08,480 --> 01:21:09,480
He's a lawyer.

1268
01:21:09,480 --> 01:21:12,880
And in the end, it appears as though this extra payout was never billed to the bank

1269
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:15,400
because he was like, no, I can't do that.

1270
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:16,400
Right.

1271
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:17,400
He was.

1272
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:18,400
Yeah, he was.

1273
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:19,400
So I responsible.

1274
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:23,720
It looks like he didn't receive this extra pay that they were requesting.

1275
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:25,680
Right.

1276
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:30,680
So essentially, his defense in all this was that he was merely a passive participant in

1277
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:32,440
a third party decision.

1278
01:21:32,440 --> 01:21:33,440
Interesting.

1279
01:21:33,440 --> 01:21:37,440
It makes sense from his point of view.

1280
01:21:37,440 --> 01:21:40,960
The president of the bank would have taken that decision and sounds like.

1281
01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:41,960
Yeah.

1282
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:42,960
Believable.

1283
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:44,220
Mm hmm.

1284
01:21:44,220 --> 01:21:49,180
So the testimonies of our three defendants made up the first two days of the trial.

1285
01:21:49,180 --> 01:21:54,540
Other notable testimonies were provided by Fernando Lopez de Aguilas, the head of human

1286
01:21:54,540 --> 01:22:01,880
resources at Coochie Bank, who pressured Rafael to collaborate, quote unquote, by hiring Mikhail

1287
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:08,360
Cabieffis under the directive of Mario Fernandez and Roberto Moll, who I mentioned earlier

1288
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:14,600
in the story, he was the director of the internal audit at Coochie Bank.

1289
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:23,520
So he was the one that wrote the report that he gave to the new president, who then filed

1290
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:25,320
a complaint with the prosecutor's office.

1291
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:26,320
Yeah.

1292
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:27,320
Yeah.

1293
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:28,320
We're on the same page.

1294
01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:29,320
Incredibly.

1295
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:30,320
Yeah.

1296
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:34,800
So, um, why don't we take a break before we get into the sentencing?

1297
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:39,800
Let's do that.

1298
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:44,640
Okay.

1299
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:49,680
So it was at the end of the trial in March of 2017.

1300
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:54,720
It was ruled that Mikhail Cabieffis was convicted.

1301
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:58,840
He would receive one year in prison and a 9,000 euro fine.

1302
01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:01,200
Penis, right?

1303
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:05,840
As for Mario Fernandez and Rafael Corta, they each received a six month prison sentence

1304
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:10,360
and a fine of 4,500 each euros each.

1305
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:11,520
Nothing.

1306
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:18,160
So Mikhail and Fernandez were charged with the crime of, or they were not charged, but

1307
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:23,320
they were convicted of the crime of misappropriation of funds.

1308
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:30,040
And Alcorta was charged, or not charged, sorry, sentenced, convicted for being an accomplice

1309
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:33,680
in the misappropriation of funds.

1310
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:40,440
Mikhail received the longer sentence as he was the one who profited from the whole exchange.

1311
01:23:40,440 --> 01:23:46,640
And it had been proven to the court's satisfaction that he had provided no service to the bank.

1312
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:52,480
And no one from the entity controlled him and he reported to no one at the bank, right?

1313
01:23:52,480 --> 01:23:54,160
So that was proven in court.

1314
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:56,320
Good to hear.

1315
01:23:56,320 --> 01:24:01,320
As for Mario Fernandez's defense that he was motivated by the socio-political context that

1316
01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:07,720
he was functioning under and simply fulfilling a civic duty in his collaboration and hiring,

1317
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:15,320
as if Mikhail, the court accepted this motivation, but it disagreed with the way that he went

1318
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:17,520
about finding him a job.

1319
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:22,360
The court argued that instead of trying to hire Cavietes or Mikhail at the bank or at

1320
01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:27,000
one of its affiliated companies, he used his influence to get him a job in another company

1321
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:31,960
and to instruct HR to increase the amount that the bank paid to that other company in

1322
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:37,120
order to provide him with an economic amount.

1323
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:43,800
So this backdoor antics that he pulled, the court was like, hmm, you know, like you could

1324
01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:46,840
have done the same thing by hiring him legitimately.

1325
01:24:46,840 --> 01:24:47,840
Yeah.

1326
01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:52,960
Plus, he said someone at the bank was given like a reference for another job, right?

1327
01:24:52,960 --> 01:24:53,960
Yeah.

1328
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:59,440
Plus you also said in this podcast that at some point he was like, oh, I was not concerned

1329
01:24:59,440 --> 01:25:00,880
at all about his salary.

1330
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:07,920
And then he later through some business was saying, oh, make sure that salary is paid

1331
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:08,920
to him.

1332
01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:09,920
Yeah.

1333
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:11,240
Through the law firm, right?

1334
01:25:11,240 --> 01:25:14,840
So he is contradicting himself entirely there.

1335
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:19,800
And I guess that's well, he just his defense was just that like, I felt obliged to find

1336
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:24,840
him a job because these politicians called me and asked me to find him a job.

1337
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:25,840
Yeah.

1338
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:30,040
So he didn't actually find him a job at Coochie Bank.

1339
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:36,200
What he did was find him in the law firm and then make that company pay him some money

1340
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:38,040
that Coochie Bank was going to directly pay him.

1341
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:39,040
Yeah.

1342
01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:41,840
So the statement that he wasn't concerned with the money doesn't make sense because

1343
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:47,160
he was making sure that he got paid, you know, just saying, just saying, I'm trying to be

1344
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:48,160
the lawyer here.

1345
01:25:48,160 --> 01:25:52,600
It's the only thing I caught out of them.

1346
01:25:52,600 --> 01:25:58,120
OK, so and a quote from the sentencing quote, he acted personally outside the entity and

1347
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:03,980
without involving it any time in an action completely unrelated to the ordinary activity

1348
01:26:03,980 --> 01:26:04,980
of the bank.

1349
01:26:04,980 --> 01:26:08,360
It sounds like they just want to leave the bank alone, but sure.

1350
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:14,880
No, they're saying he as in charge as a man in charge of the bank, he didn't actually

1351
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:20,320
use the bank, the bank by hiring him to provide any services to.

1352
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:21,320
Oh, right.

1353
01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:22,320
Right.

1354
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:23,320
Right.

1355
01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:24,320
Right.

1356
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:26,600
But it's also it's nice and convenient that the bank is sort of free of charge.

1357
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:28,520
You know, they didn't do anything wrong.

1358
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:33,680
The bank itself, the institution, right, is privatized and clean and ready for investment

1359
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:34,680
at this point.

1360
01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:35,680
Yeah.

1361
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:36,680
Yeah.

1362
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:37,680
Because he's now no longer in charge.

1363
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:38,680
Right.

1364
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:41,600
If it had come about while he was in charge, it would probably be a different story.

1365
01:26:41,600 --> 01:26:42,600
Sure.

1366
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:43,600
Sure.

1367
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:44,600
Or they probably would just take him down.

1368
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:45,600
I don't know.

1369
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:46,600
Yeah.

1370
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:47,600
Just like I don't like.

1371
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:53,200
I mean, it's it's interesting how they kind of draw a line between him and the institution

1372
01:26:53,200 --> 01:26:54,200
of the.

1373
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:55,200
Yeah.

1374
01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:56,200
Yeah.

1375
01:26:56,200 --> 01:26:57,200
That's it's amusing to me.

1376
01:26:57,200 --> 01:26:58,200
Yeah.

1377
01:26:58,200 --> 01:27:05,240
So Fernandez or Mario also received the reduced sentence due to the fact that he fully returned.

1378
01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:06,240
Oh, OK.

1379
01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:11,680
The two hundred and forty seven thousand euros that you killed received even before the filing

1380
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:12,920
of the lawsuit.

1381
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:15,840
So before any of this even was filed with the prosecution.

1382
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:17,000
Yeah.

1383
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:19,000
He paid that off.

1384
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:24,320
So the ruling considers it proven that Fernandez acted with, quote, the intention of procuring

1385
01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:30,280
an economic benefit for Cavieffes and that this occurred at the expense of the entity's

1386
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:31,280
assets.

1387
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:32,280
Yes.

1388
01:27:32,280 --> 01:27:36,520
And with the instrumental participation of Alcorta's office.

1389
01:27:36,520 --> 01:27:37,520
Right.

1390
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:38,880
So just basically, yeah.

1391
01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:39,880
Yeah.

1392
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:44,080
He went a really roundabout way to get this all paid to him.

1393
01:27:44,080 --> 01:27:49,920
Alcorta's sentencing was also reduced as he was merely in a collaborator and not, I guess,

1394
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:53,720
the mastermind of all this, you know.

1395
01:27:53,720 --> 01:27:54,720
Yeah.

1396
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:59,920
So the ruling devoted several pages to justifying that Cavieffes' services were completely

1397
01:27:59,920 --> 01:28:06,680
unnecessary and to doubting the work that he carried out for Alcorta and the bank.

1398
01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:11,440
It is emphasized that the financial institution had no need to have Cavieffes and that the

1399
01:28:11,440 --> 01:28:18,960
monthly expense incurred was absolutely unjustified from the point of view of business logic.

1400
01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:24,680
In summary, it was financial aid and not a reinforcement for a future bank.

1401
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:27,560
They didn't need him.

1402
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:34,120
The court ruling concluded with, quote, the intention to benefit and the correlative harm

1403
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:39,240
are evident and the three defendants were aware of this.

1404
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:43,760
The court rejected, however, the prosecution's request to disqualify Cavieffes and Alcorta

1405
01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:44,760
from practicing law.

1406
01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:45,760
Ah.

1407
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:52,280
As well as Fernandez from holding a position as administrator or board member.

1408
01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:53,960
Any other company.

1409
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:54,960
So he can do it.

1410
01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:55,960
Yep.

1411
01:28:55,960 --> 01:29:00,320
He can keep practicing law and stick to their.

1412
01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:03,960
That's why the word justice isn't quite making sense here.

1413
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:10,520
Anyway, the ruling noted that the required, quote, seriousness is not proven in the case

1414
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:16,400
of the former president of Coochie Bank, although he, quote, overreached his duties.

1415
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:21,960
Gosh, just a bunch of bunch of friends.

1416
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:26,960
Other very powerful people are going, well, it's not that bad.

1417
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:31,720
As for Alcorta and Cavieffes as lawyers, he considers that the, quote, enrichment on

1418
01:29:31,720 --> 01:29:37,440
which the crime of misappropriation is based did not have to do with a certain professional

1419
01:29:37,440 --> 01:29:43,040
performance or the breach of their duties as a lawyer.

1420
01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:44,920
I mean, I would get dragged against that.

1421
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:45,920
I mean, right.

1422
01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:46,920
Yeah, of course.

1423
01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:51,920
He as a lawyer, you're supposed to legally knew how they could go around and finagle

1424
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:52,920
this.

1425
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:53,920
Yeah.

1426
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:55,520
This whole thing, right?

1427
01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:56,520
Yeah.

1428
01:29:56,520 --> 01:30:04,200
You know, it's it's it's it's less uncomfortable than our first story where they judged there

1429
01:30:04,200 --> 01:30:08,200
was not cruelty, where there was clearly cruelty.

1430
01:30:08,200 --> 01:30:09,200
Yeah.

1431
01:30:09,200 --> 01:30:12,160
And this is this is the same sort of box of things.

1432
01:30:12,160 --> 01:30:13,840
It's like, yeah, you want to say that?

1433
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:17,160
Well, if you want to say that with your freaking excuses, say that.

1434
01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:19,440
But we know it's not, you know.

1435
01:30:19,440 --> 01:30:20,440
Yeah.

1436
01:30:20,440 --> 01:30:24,600
I should not be a lawyer for at least a few years.

1437
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:25,600
Yeah.

1438
01:30:25,600 --> 01:30:26,600
Like at least something.

1439
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:27,600
They should have some kind of penalty.

1440
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:28,600
Yeah, I'm going to say five.

1441
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:33,320
There should be two or three does not sound enough, even if he was in jail.

1442
01:30:33,320 --> 01:30:39,320
He has to have serious consequences where he's not going to earn these hundreds of thousands

1443
01:30:39,320 --> 01:30:41,520
of dollars as a lawyer.

1444
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:42,520
Yeah.

1445
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:43,520
Daily.

1446
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:49,160
And like what lawyers like a lawyer that's being condemned.

1447
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:53,760
For breaking the law or breaking the law is still going to be paid full.

1448
01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:56,360
No problem representing whatever firms you want.

1449
01:30:56,360 --> 01:30:57,360
Yeah.

1450
01:30:57,360 --> 01:30:58,360
Get any job.

1451
01:30:58,360 --> 01:30:59,360
Yeah.

1452
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:02,160
Anyway, I know, I know.

1453
01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:06,000
Me not happy to say, just saying.

1454
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:11,200
Furthermore, the court acquitted them of the crime of falsifying a commercial document.

1455
01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:17,680
So this fraud count was in reference to some of the invoices that were provided by Alcorta's

1456
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:19,120
law firm.

1457
01:31:19,120 --> 01:31:24,240
From what I've read, the accusation lacked the conciseness and precision in the account

1458
01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:26,320
of the facts and could not be proven.

1459
01:31:26,320 --> 01:31:31,920
So basically they couldn't prove that the fraud took place.

1460
01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:33,000
Sure.

1461
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:34,000
With these invoices.

1462
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:35,000
Yeah.

1463
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:36,000
Or in these invoices.

1464
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:39,280
It's probably an invoice that said he gave us great advice on X.

1465
01:31:39,280 --> 01:31:40,760
He did this X amount of job.

1466
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:42,760
And it was like a dinner.

1467
01:31:42,760 --> 01:31:43,760
Yeah.

1468
01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:44,760
Yeah.

1469
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:48,200
Anyway, we're getting to the bottom of this.

1470
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:49,200
We're almost there.

1471
01:31:49,200 --> 01:31:50,200
Yeah.

1472
01:31:50,200 --> 01:31:56,080
So I searched forever to find out if any of these three men actually served any time in

1473
01:31:56,080 --> 01:31:57,080
prison.

1474
01:31:57,080 --> 01:31:58,080
Right.

1475
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:03,040
It was with the help of my friend and ex student, Gisela, that she found that none of them went

1476
01:32:03,040 --> 01:32:04,040
to prison.

1477
01:32:04,040 --> 01:32:05,040
Oh my gosh.

1478
01:32:05,040 --> 01:32:06,040
Yep.

1479
01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:08,040
So this is information.

1480
01:32:08,040 --> 01:32:13,000
The news does not, you know, they talk about, you know, they go over the court case.

1481
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:14,000
There's nothing more shocking.

1482
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:16,120
Then there's never any mention about that.

1483
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:18,000
They never actually went to prison.

1484
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:19,000
Yes.

1485
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:20,920
I know you can say fuck.

1486
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:21,920
Yeah.

1487
01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:22,920
This is an explicit.

1488
01:32:22,920 --> 01:32:23,920
Just saying.

1489
01:32:23,920 --> 01:32:24,920
Yeah.

1490
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:25,920
Go ahead and say it.

1491
01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:26,920
Let it out, Douglas.

1492
01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:27,920
Oh my gosh.

1493
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:28,920
I know.

1494
01:32:28,920 --> 01:32:29,920
Well, she also indicated why.

1495
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:30,920
Why are they didn't go to prison?

1496
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:31,920
So she informed me that the prison sentence is suspended if it's less than two years with

1497
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:32,920
certain conditions, such as being a first time offender or satisfying civic liability.

1498
01:32:32,920 --> 01:32:33,920
So that is fine.

1499
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:34,920
I'm not sure.

1500
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:35,920
I'm not sure.

1501
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:36,920
I'm not sure.

1502
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:37,920
I'm not sure.

1503
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:38,920
I'm not sure.

1504
01:32:38,920 --> 01:32:39,920
I'm not sure.

1505
01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:40,920
I'm not sure.

1506
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:41,920
I'm not sure.

1507
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:42,920
I'm not sure.

1508
01:32:42,920 --> 01:32:43,920
I'm not sure.

1509
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:44,920
I'm not sure.

1510
01:32:44,920 --> 01:32:45,920
I'm not sure.

1511
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:46,920
I'm not sure.

1512
01:32:46,920 --> 01:32:47,920
I'm not sure.

1513
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:48,920
I'm not sure.

1514
01:32:48,920 --> 01:32:49,920
I know it's okay.

1515
01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:53,080
So, which I imagine was the fine.

1516
01:32:53,080 --> 01:32:54,080
Okay.

1517
01:32:54,080 --> 01:32:56,080
Like as in we paid they paid the liabilities, which is nothing.

1518
01:32:56,080 --> 01:32:59,220
Sorry, which is nothing.

1519
01:32:59,220 --> 01:33:00,220
No, it's nothing.

1520
01:33:00,220 --> 01:33:04,880
I mean, he Kabbie has had to pay 9000 and the other two had to pay 4500.

1521
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:07,620
Oh, then that was their fines.

1522
01:33:07,620 --> 01:33:08,620
Oh, right, right, right.

1523
01:33:08,620 --> 01:33:09,620
Yeah.

1524
01:33:09,620 --> 01:33:10,620
No, it's not.

1525
01:33:10,620 --> 01:33:16,280
So I don't know if that's what she meant by civic liability, but that sounds like it.

1526
01:33:16,280 --> 01:33:22,760
Yeah, I mean, isn't they satisfied their civic liability or their civil liability?

1527
01:33:22,760 --> 01:33:25,320
Not civic, but civil liability. Civil. Okay.

1528
01:33:27,240 --> 01:33:30,920
Throw words at us, right? They'll be punished to their public shaming.

1529
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:37,560
That's how they dominate us. They just create words. They throw it at us. We don't understand.

1530
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:42,600
And we're like, okay, well, I guess he's satisfied to civil liability, even though he fucking raped

1531
01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:52,440
her and killed her three times. Whatever, whatever. Just saying. Oh my god. Seriously. Yeah. So yeah.

1532
01:33:52,440 --> 01:33:57,080
Mixing cases. Mixing cases. I'm not implying anything on these very rich people that

1533
01:33:57,640 --> 01:34:06,600
definitely could kill us. So yeah, they had to pay some fines, which for them was like chump change.

1534
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:14,600
It was nothing. 4,000 euros for 9,000. The guy wrote a check for 250,000 basically in one day.

1535
01:34:15,240 --> 01:34:21,400
Like here, 250,000. The interesting thing is though, if he hadn't written that check,

1536
01:34:21,400 --> 01:34:28,920
would he only be reliable to pay the 9,000? That's the one, right? Yeah. I think that's. So he saved

1537
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:36,920
4,500 euros by writing that check. And now he's probably kicking himself. He's like, fuck, if I

1538
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:47,480
had just not paid that. No, 4,500. Did I say 4,500? I don't, I think it's a hundred. His fine. No. Okay.

1539
01:34:47,480 --> 01:34:58,520
Fernandez was given a smaller prison sentence, six months and 4,500 euros fine because he had paid

1540
01:34:58,520 --> 01:35:05,320
that check to make up for what Pooja Bank had paid to Mikkel, right? That's why they gave him the

1541
01:35:05,320 --> 01:35:13,240
lower sentence. Okay. Right. So he's probably kicking himself because Mikkel got a year in prison,

1542
01:35:13,240 --> 01:35:19,240
which he never had served. Yes. And had to pay 9,000. So, you know, he paid half of what Mikkel

1543
01:35:19,240 --> 01:35:24,440
paid, right? But he's probably kicking himself because he's like, fuck, I never actually had to

1544
01:35:24,440 --> 01:35:30,920
pay that 250,000 to the bank. Exactly. Yes. Yes. If this was just going to be. Exactly. I could have

1545
01:35:30,920 --> 01:35:36,040
just paid 9,000 like Mikkel and never actually have to serve a day in prison. We were in the same page.

1546
01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:42,920
I was just scared about names of people. Okay. It's ridiculous. Are you following Megan? Were we on

1547
01:35:42,920 --> 01:35:50,600
the same page? Okay. We're on the same page listeners, just for those listening in. Oh gosh. Okay.

1548
01:35:50,600 --> 01:35:57,400
In the trial, Kabyitha's defense are alleged that his right to privacy had been violated. Oh my gosh.

1549
01:35:57,400 --> 01:36:02,920
When the court examined his bank accounts without his authorization and without the mandatory

1550
01:36:02,920 --> 01:36:09,800
judicial authorization. I mean, if they don't have it in mind. Sure. He knows the ins and outs. He sure

1551
01:36:09,800 --> 01:36:19,160
does. What is the freaking law, the court doing, not doing its judicial proper steps? Yeah.

1552
01:36:19,160 --> 01:36:27,080
Proper steps. Yeah. Whilst investors, I mean, also right? Like is he catching us on a legality? Yeah.

1553
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:34,200
The actual court didn't do correctly. He's like counter attack, counter attack. How to get away with anything.

1554
01:36:34,200 --> 01:36:39,400
So the court decided to postpone the analysis of his allegation. So they didn't even address it at

1555
01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:46,440
the time. The allegation of. That they had violated his privacy. I mean. Examining his bank accounts.

1556
01:36:46,440 --> 01:36:52,360
He didn't even go to jail. Who cares? Yeah. Mario Fernandez announced that he will appeal the ruling.

1557
01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:58,360
In a statement, he shared his respect for the magistrate's decision, but that he will appeal,

1558
01:36:58,360 --> 01:37:05,080
declaring quote, I have a clear conscience. I am going to appeal because never, and this has been

1559
01:37:05,080 --> 01:37:11,240
proven, have I acted in accordance with my own interests. What, what never have I acted according

1560
01:37:11,240 --> 01:37:16,280
to my own interests? In accordance with my own interests. Never have I acted. Like it wasn't for his own benefit.

1561
01:37:18,600 --> 01:37:25,640
This doesn't make sense to me, darling. I have never acted in my interests. In accordance with my own interests.

1562
01:37:25,640 --> 01:37:32,360
I wasn't acting for my own, for my personal gain. But not never in that case, then. Yeah. He wasn't acting

1563
01:37:32,360 --> 01:37:38,040
in that case, apparently. Okay. He was saying never has he done that. Well, that means he would never

1564
01:37:38,040 --> 01:37:44,280
have lifted a bowl of soup to his mouth because that's in his interest to survive. Oh, okay.

1565
01:37:44,280 --> 01:37:49,960
Has he never acted in his own interests? Well, maybe. Has everybody just given him soup? Maybe he just met in this case.

1566
01:37:49,960 --> 01:37:55,880
In this case. Anyway. He's talking about his own case. In this case. Just saying. Not in general, maybe.

1567
01:37:56,680 --> 01:38:04,280
I'm just saying. Freaking words. Douglas is riled up. If the only thing we have is words, I can only listen to words.

1568
01:38:04,280 --> 01:38:13,960
And these words are coming from Google Translate. I'm trying to quote him. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure.

1569
01:38:13,960 --> 01:38:16,600
So I'm trying to keep it as close to his quote. I've forgotten that part now.

1570
01:38:17,480 --> 01:38:24,840
Trying to keep it as close to his quote. Sure. Sure. Sure. So that's how it was translated. Okay. Sure.

1571
01:38:24,840 --> 01:38:33,960
You're surprised that I'm angry, Julie? No. Surely not. Not at all. Okay. So he went on to say that the presumption of innocence has been violated and generated a situation of defenselessness.

1572
01:38:33,960 --> 01:38:39,400
Instead of proving the alleged criminal acts, the defendants have had to prove their innocence.

1573
01:38:40,760 --> 01:38:47,240
Right. He announced his goal of cleaning up his professional honor and insisting that his innocence be proven.

1574
01:38:47,240 --> 01:38:55,560
At the head of the bank were always quote legal and ethical and in the defense of the entity's interests.

1575
01:38:55,560 --> 01:39:04,360
Bullshit. Bullshit. The court of law proved that you are guilty. Yeah. But he's going to appeal.

1576
01:39:04,360 --> 01:39:11,560
Apparently. And he did. He did. Yes, he did. Did he what? He did. He did. He did. He did.

1577
01:39:11,560 --> 01:39:27,480
Well, fucking bastards. No, he didn't. But that's a spoiler. Okay. So I still don't know what happens.

1578
01:39:27,480 --> 01:39:35,400
Okay. So not everyone was happy with the sentences. Okay. I'm not happy. Like Doug. I feel this. I feel in the same boat.

1579
01:39:35,400 --> 01:39:47,800
I feel as outraged as were other people. Okay. So for example, E.H. Bildu, which is a left-wing nationalist and Basque independence party.

1580
01:39:47,800 --> 01:39:53,480
Yes, that's my people. Okay. That's the party you vote for usually. Okay. When they let me.

1581
01:39:55,400 --> 01:40:03,960
I'm only allowed to vote in municipal elections right now. Yeah. Yeah. That's a situation for residents, not civilians, right?

1582
01:40:03,960 --> 01:40:11,080
Or citizens, I should say. If we're not citizens, we can't vote nationally. We have to vote locally. Exactly. Right. Exactly.

1583
01:40:11,080 --> 01:40:21,240
We're allowed to vote locally. I was confused by your wording. That's correct. So anyways, these, this party was disappointed with one aspect of the sentencing.

1584
01:40:21,240 --> 01:40:30,600
In the aftermath, they felt that the sentence must have, quote, political consequences since it shows that the Basque nationalist party, PNB,

1585
01:40:30,600 --> 01:40:39,320
and the Basque socialist party, PSE, used Cucha Bank and its capital to pay mutual political favors. Yeah. Unquote.

1586
01:40:39,320 --> 01:40:49,560
The Albert Sale coalition, which is a coalition of various left-winging Basque nationalist and independence parties, including E.H. Bildu,

1587
01:40:49,560 --> 01:40:59,880
has stressed that the appointment of Fernandez to preside over the bank was, quote, forged after a three-way agreement between the Basque nationalist party, PNB,

1588
01:40:59,880 --> 01:41:10,280
and the, which is the conservative right-wing leaning Basque nationalist, and the PSE, the Basque socialist party, and the PP, which was the popular party,

1589
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:14,680
which is a conservative party, or right-wing party. Right-wing.

1590
01:41:14,680 --> 01:41:22,680
They went on to say that the former president of Cucha Bank ordered the payments to Cavieftes after requests from members within those three parties.

1591
01:41:22,680 --> 01:41:30,840
E.H. Bildu could not understand why this sentence did not entail the assumption of political responsibility by the representatives of these three parties.

1592
01:41:30,840 --> 01:41:35,240
Agreed entirely. Yeah. Wonder why I won't vote for them. Yeah.

1593
01:41:35,240 --> 01:41:41,480
So with respect to Mario Fernandez's appeal that you were wondering about.

1594
01:41:41,480 --> 01:41:47,000
Mm. We're all wondering about. We're all wondering about. Everybody's on the edge of their seats at this point.

1595
01:41:47,000 --> 01:42:05,640
Yes. What happened? They didn't go to jail or anything. Okay. So in February of 2018, the Supreme Court has confirmed the sentence of six months in prison that was imposed in March of 2017 by the Vizcaya Court's ruling for misappropriation.

1596
01:42:05,640 --> 01:42:12,280
Mm. As a result, well, he never actually went to prison. No. Right? But at least he was condemned to prison.

1597
01:42:12,280 --> 01:42:23,720
Yeah. They held up the conviction. Right. Good. So as a result, Fernandez has resigned from the board of directors at Repsol, a position he'd held since 2011.

1598
01:42:23,720 --> 01:42:34,840
That's the oil company. Yeah. Of. Well, I don't know where it started. It's the biggest Spanish one that we know of. Yeah. I think off the top of our heads.

1599
01:42:34,840 --> 01:42:49,640
Yeah. I mean, historically, I think it's the most important one, like Shell in the Netherlands, whether they're still the biggest or not, we don't know. But. So the oil company had decided not to demand his resignation until the sentence was final.

1600
01:42:49,640 --> 01:43:01,800
So when the sentence was final, he had his last salary. My little friend, poor little Mario has to find another job. But he's probably like in his seventies now.

1601
01:43:01,800 --> 01:43:09,080
So he's like, I'll just retire with all this cash. Do you mean ready for presidency like in other countries?

1602
01:43:09,080 --> 01:43:16,880
It's going to run for. I'll run for president as long as I don't as long as I know not to vote for this. It'll be fine.

1603
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:22,680
It'll be cool. Oh, and. None of this is a problem to run for president.

1604
01:43:22,680 --> 01:43:43,480
Now, as for Rafael Cortez, he was in the news in June of twenty twenty two when his law firm Alcortes and Associates was absorbed through a merger by a much larger national and international law firm of Sargaday, which you may have heard of Sargaday and Associates.

1605
01:43:43,480 --> 01:43:52,840
The offices that Alcorta held in Bilbao have become the newest branch of this big wig law firm that holds offices and sway all over the peninsula. Interesting.

1606
01:43:52,840 --> 01:44:00,520
So our little accomplice, Rafael, is doing a. OK. Sounds like he's fine.

1607
01:44:00,520 --> 01:44:06,960
And then I couldn't find out much about what Mikhail Kavyev is is up to these days, but he's probably fine.

1608
01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:14,040
We're going to assume he's very fine sipping some much better than wine than we are. Yeah, for sure.

1609
01:44:14,040 --> 01:44:18,320
Send somebody out to pick it up. Oh, for sure.

1610
01:44:18,320 --> 01:44:28,400
However, in one article from March of twenty eighteen, a municipal group called the Porto Lujo Despierta, the name of the group,

1611
01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:34,960
had presented a motion requesting the removal of his portrait, which hangs in the assembly hall of Portugalete's Town Hall.

1612
01:44:34,960 --> 01:44:41,280
Absolutely. Which, if you recall, he was the mayor there from 1995 to 2008.

1613
01:44:41,280 --> 01:44:49,680
You mean disgraced mayor? Yeah, that's what I shall refer to him from now on.

1614
01:44:49,680 --> 01:44:55,920
Oh, you mean Kavyev is the disgraced mayor of Portugalete.

1615
01:44:55,920 --> 01:45:06,840
So the removal of the portrait was rejected by the votes cast by guess who? The Bass Socialist Party, the popular party.

1616
01:45:06,840 --> 01:45:18,280
OK. But PNV, the Nationalist Party, abstained from voting. Well done.

1617
01:45:18,280 --> 01:45:26,760
They indicated that they do not understand why the general secretary of the Bass Socialist Party of Piscaya and the mayor of Portugalete, Michael Torres,

1618
01:45:26,760 --> 01:45:33,080
Michael Torres, decided to keep quiet about the cases of corruption into their party during the Cuchipin case.

1619
01:45:33,080 --> 01:45:43,160
In addition, they've indicated they're deeply outraged by the abstentions, abstentions by the PNV members because, quote,

1620
01:45:43,160 --> 01:45:49,400
once again, they're looking for excuses not to position themselves clearly. I agree with that.

1621
01:45:49,400 --> 01:45:58,520
It's just that the thing is, if they had voted not to take his photo down, his painting down, it would be a clear.

1622
01:45:58,520 --> 01:46:02,920
They're clearly taking sides, which is the wrong side.

1623
01:46:02,920 --> 01:46:12,840
Let me just highlight here. And at least they're being neutral in the sense that, well, you know,

1624
01:46:12,840 --> 01:46:16,520
if we don't vote, then nobody can say we went either way.

1625
01:46:16,520 --> 01:46:21,880
I mean, at least they're not on his freaking side. They just don't want to say.

1626
01:46:21,880 --> 01:46:28,680
Yeah. Whereas the unionist parties are very happy to cozy up to little corrupt boys.

1627
01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:36,920
We can see just highlighting from my personal point of view, the most outraged he's ever been on this podcast.

1628
01:46:36,920 --> 01:46:47,480
Right. I'm going to finish it up with the spokesman for Puerto Delugos Disfierta, John Medrano,

1629
01:46:47,480 --> 01:46:53,880
considered it, quote, a tremendous exercise in cynicism that these parties refuse to position themselves against corruption

1630
01:46:53,880 --> 01:46:57,320
when they have it in front of their noses. Yeah. That's what I agree with.

1631
01:46:57,320 --> 01:47:01,080
His portrait can still be seen there today. That's what I agree with.

1632
01:47:01,080 --> 01:47:04,760
And there you go. That is the case of Cuchibank and Cavieves.

1633
01:47:04,760 --> 01:47:07,640
Yeah. There's only one thing in my head right now.

1634
01:47:07,640 --> 01:47:12,840
Do you know all these people that are fighting for like nature and freaking paintings up?

1635
01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:19,240
Yeah. I will leave it in the listener's imagination what I'm thinking.

1636
01:47:19,240 --> 01:47:29,960
OK. Let's hope some some some some young ones who who want to help politics become nicer.

1637
01:47:29,960 --> 01:47:32,760
Yeah. Understand my message.

1638
01:47:32,760 --> 01:47:38,360
Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, it's that was very interesting.

1639
01:47:38,360 --> 01:47:42,440
And now hopefully we know what people are talking about when they bring out this cabezas guy.

1640
01:47:42,440 --> 01:47:46,440
If anybody brings it up, you'd be like, oh, I know all about that.

1641
01:47:46,440 --> 01:47:49,560
Finally, we bid you agur.

1642
01:47:52,840 --> 01:47:57,720
Crimes of the Basque Lands is written and produced by Douglas Di Carvalho, Julie Garcia,

1643
01:47:57,720 --> 01:48:02,680
and Megan Dooley, the sound and editing for each episode by Douglas Di Carvalho.

1644
01:48:02,680 --> 01:48:07,240
I'm Megan Dooley theme song written by Douglas Di Carvalho, Julie Garcia,

1645
01:48:07,240 --> 01:48:13,880
I'm Megan Dooley, sung by the choir with no name and produced by Tom Squires podcast art by Distinct

1646
01:48:13,880 --> 01:48:19,960
Signal. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Crimes of the Basque Lands and contact us at

1647
01:48:19,960 --> 01:48:25,240
crimes of the Basque Lands at Gmail dot com with story ideas worldwide, which have a connection to

1648
01:48:25,240 --> 01:48:31,400
the Basque Country or any rave reviews. If you like our podcasts, please subscribe, like, rate

1649
01:48:31,400 --> 01:48:59,400
and review wherever you get your podcasts until next time. Agur.