Bat bi hiru lau
Watch your back, watch your back
Ertzaintza's gonna get you
Watch your back, watch your back
Ertzaintza's gonna get you
Watch your back, watch your back
Oh, there's a crime here
It's a coming from the Euskal Herria
Gotta wash those red hands
It's the crimes of the basquelands
Yeah, I guess I was, I wasn't...
And even for mini crime time too, if they have a mini crime time.
Of course. Of course.
You can send us a voicemail or something.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
And maybe we can put it on the show.
I was gonna say, it's kind of related to that kind of typical expression we have in Bilbao.
I mean, it's more like a joke rather than an expression, but
there's a joke where somebody goes up to somebody else and goes
So, have you seen the world map of Bilbao?
As in, Bilbao is so important.
It's not only the capital. The world map is a map of Bilbao.
And in that vein of thought, you know, a crime committed to anywhere could be connected to Bilbao.
That's true. That's very true.
So just tying it in with Basques things.
Yes. Everything leads back to the Basques.
Of course, it has to.
Okay. Well, let's get into our story then.
So first, I'll start out with my sources for the story.
I had articles from El Diario, El País, 20 Minutes, Diario Vasco, El Mundo, El Español, AITB, Noticias de Quipuzcua, Casos Islados, The Guardian, and of course, Wikipedia.
Wow.
Yeah. Lots of sources for this.
And then I wanted to also give special thanks to my ex-student that I've mentioned many times, Gisela, because she's a law clerk.
I want to thank her for her help in researching, you know, parts of the story or answering, being very generous with her time and answering my legal questions.
That's lovely. I hope we can have her one day as a guest just to say hi and tell us a little quick mini crime time or something.
Yeah, yeah. That'd be awesome.
Okay. So in terms of content warning, there is an account of an assassination of a political figure.
So listen with discretion.
So hang on to your chapella, Douglas.
I hope at the very least you will find this story interesting.
Because you're my main audience here.
Am I?
So this week, I'd like to tell you the story about a tale as old as time.
It's a drama about powerful, wealthy men scratching each other's backs by bestowing each other with quite lucrative favors.
Oh, right. Right.
Favor.
Yes. But in this case, they were busted.
Okay. Nice. Good.
I know. Right.
So they were busted for using their privilege and their connections to line their own pockets.
Hmm. Classic. Shalivan tree. Yes. I mean, shocking. They got busted.
I think personally. Okay. Yeah. I was gonna say what's shocking that they were busted.
Yeah. Usually they don't get busted.
So this is my one sentence synopsis for this story.
Okay. So all hell breaks loose when three powerful men and well connected men share the spotlight in the vast courts and in the media, leading to their ultimate fall from grace.
Okay. So this is the story of Kucha Bank and the former politician Miguel Angel Cabecis Garcia.
So my cousin, no, he's not my cousin. I mean, maybe hundreds of years ago.
All right. So now I'm giving you this politician's given name, but I'd like you now to guess how he changed it for his public persona and how he's actually referred to in the news stories about his involvement in this case.
Okay. Okay. Yeah. So he's a bass politician. He was a member of the socialist party of us.
God. And we remember is the best country and a member of us.
Godico is scared.
The best left the left basket party. So I guess they combine it's the
Anyway, they usually run on there together. They're kind of like a combined party in this.
Okay. A lot of times they kind of keep their messages separate, but they present themselves jointly an election.
Yeah. So I don't I'm not sure. Oftentimes when he's talked about his party, they combine the two. Yeah.
These two parties. So we know what's happening. Yeah.
Sometimes they split up again. But yeah, a lot of times they just become one party eventually in order to have more clout and weight. Yeah.
So how do you think he changed his name to suit this public identity and you know, as a politician here in the Basque Country. So Miguel to me kill.
Of course.
Yes, I knew you would get it right away. Very good. I knew you would get it. I mean, so I mean, there has been a process where people who were obliged to pick up a Spanish name are free to pick another name now after dictatorship.
And a lot of people, you know, were forced to be called like girls had to have be called Maria. Yeah. And Maria something, you know, something exactly. So Jose something. Exactly. So they wouldn't let you get married.
Mary and Joseph, by the way, religious types. Yeah. So, you know, there's there's there's there's a tradition of doing that.
There's a reason why people would do that because I guess he's an older man and he wouldn't have been allowed to to to have a name.
So it's not 100% cynical and it's quite a typical thing here. But let's see.
I'd like to think that he just did it to get more credit in the Basque politics. For sure. For sure. I mean, he's not very nationalist because he's the person you said the party.
It's not Pesce. It's it's the best socialist party, which is not Pesce. Oh, OK. So Pesce is the national party, right? Yeah. But it also has a Basque. Right. So it's like the Basque counterpart of that party, I guess.
Right. Right. Right. Basque Pesce. Right. That's what you want to call it. Yeah. Sure. Sure. But what I mean is even Pepe, which is a very unionist right wing party.
Yeah. They still have a Basque Pepe office, you know, exactly. Even though they're not nationalist at all. Yeah. Anyway, just clarifying.
OK. So yeah, I'll refer to him as Mikkel, from now on. OK. All right. So first I'm going to give you some background on Cucha Bank. OK. So now this is from Wikipedia.
Cucha Bank is a Spanish bank founded and based in Bilbao. It was officially created on January 1st of 2012 out of a merger of three Basque saving banks operating in their respective provinces.
Bilbao, Biscaya, Cucha, known as BBK, based in Bilbao. Que Puskwa, Denostia, Cucha, known as Cucha, based in San Sebastian.
And Caja, Vital, Cucha, known as Vital, based in Vitoria. So these three Basque banks were headquartered in the three capital cities of Tuscany.
Bilbao, Bilbo, San Sebastian, Denostia and Vitoria Castes. So those second names, as we've said, I think before. It's a typical way in a Basque country. You would say the Spanish name and then the Basque afterwards.
OK, so just some more information about Cucha Bank. As of 2014, the European stress test measuring solvency in periods of credit crisis showed that Cucha Bank ranked first in Spain, standing out as the soundest financial institution.
Cucha Bank was considered the most solvent bank in Spain. Nice. Also ranking higher than the average European bank.
I wouldn't expect less from the Basques. I know. Good for them. Good for them.
So now the word Cucha, Denostia. What do you do? You want to tell us what that translates to? It's literally a box, but it's referring to your savings box. A bank. Yeah, a bank. Your safe. Yeah. Your bank.
I don't know. Is bank a literal thing apart from a well, I mean, I'm thinking box could be bank because it's where you keep your thing, a bank of something. Yeah. My thing. Yeah.
And my brain, it links to a safe like a big box. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Okay, so it was in December of 2014 when the new president of Cucha Bank, Gregorio Villa La Vecchia filed a complaint with the prosecutor's office in Bilbao for, quote, alleged anomalies during the former president of the banks, Mario Fernandez's tenure.
Okay. The director of human resources, Fernando Lopez de Yeliz. Aguilas. Aguilas.
He had given the new president a heads up that a one, Miquel Cabieces had been hired indirectly for three years by the bank, but had not provided any services to the entity.
Interesting.
Upon receiving this information, he communicated these facts to the Bank of Spain, which in turn transferred it to the European Central Bank, which then requested that the current president of Cucha Bank, Gregorio Villa La Vecchia, find out the details of this.
Okay.
So he performed an audit.
And in the final report, he found what appeared to be an increase in the payments by the bank to their legal consultants and representatives in labor issues.
Okay.
So Gregorio is the new president and he's investigating his own bank. Investigating his own bank under the watch of the former bank president.
Okay, what was something that had gone on?
The legal tenure. Yeah. So these payments were made in monthly installments for approximately 6,000 euros. They were made starting in 2012 and ending in 2014. Ultimately totaling to 243,592 euros.
Nice, nice little sum of money. Yeah.
You know, this may not sound nefarious, you know, a law firm raising their fees for providing more services to their client and invoicing them accordingly.
But what raised alarm bells for him was that he could find no legitimate basis for the bank to be issuing these extra payments.
Right. These three years.
Yeah, basically no services. Yeah.
So when he inquired further, he found that the bank had decided to dispense this quote income directly to Mikkel by way of funneling it through the bank's external legal labor advisor, the law offices of Rafael Alcorta and associates.
Moreover, these deposits from Coochie Bank to Rafael Alcorta and his firm were approved and directed by the banks then president Mario Fernandez. So he said yes to these increases in their fees.
It was approved by him. It was under his responsibility. Yeah. Marios. Yes, Mario.
Trying to trying to start these names out. I know, I know. That's why it's very complex. It's already hard for me to follow.
But there's a Gonzalo who's a current one. Right. No, it's Gregorio. Sorry. Yeah. Mario is the previous guy. Yep. That's good enough for now. Oh, Mikkel. Oh, he's the one that was hired. Right. Okay.
So, um, air quotes there. Yeah, I did. Air quotes. I have to remember to let listeners know that I'm doing air quotes. So it appeared as though these payments were income for Mikkel and that Mikkel was providing a legal service to the bank as a labor lawyer.
However, upon further inspection by the La Vecchia Gregorio, he could find no services that Mikkel had actually provided to the bank over the course of this time that he was receiving pay.
So what does he do? He smells something fishy. And I assume he wants his bank that he's now in charge of not to have to come under any scrutiny for this discrepancy, you know, or a crime of misappropriation of funds. Right. Very responsible.
Yeah. So he files a complaint with the prosecutor's office for investigation in December of 2014. He'd just taken over at that point as well. Okay. Interesting. So they investigated. Okay. Good.
Um, so, uh, so Coochie banks director of the internal audit department, Roberto mole. He confirmed in his report that from the end of 2014, he had found quote irregularities in the relationship between the bank and Mikkel Cavieffis.
He questioned whether the amounts received by Mikkel were actually payments for rendering services to the bank as a labor lawyer. He detailed in his report that Mikkel had received monthly payments of almost 5,800 euros in advance for his collaboration with the Alcourt de la Firm.
In addition to these monthly payments, Mikkel had also billed the bank for expenses of a trip that seemed to have never taken place.
You could have just actually charged a trip you took. Jesus. People take a trip. Right. Save that money. Go to France.
Totally a business meeting.
So what struck him as odd is that these monthly payments were being salaried to caveat this, but it appears though they were for nothing in return. Right. So he wasn't providing the bank with any services. Okay. So Roberto mole was brought into the matter by the new president.
Gregorio. Yeah. Yeah. As a result of his learning about the relationship between the bank and Mikkel Cavieffis upon the departure of the former president. Right. Yep.
Still with you, Julie. Incredibly incredibly. Okay. So he discovered that this irregular liaison was only known by Fernandez Mario.
The director of human resources and the general director. So nobody else seemed to know about this arrangement or arrangement in the bank. Right. Right.
So he wanted this. The new president wanted Roberto mold the audit guy to analyze whether or not the employing of Mikkel was actually legal. Okay. Yep.
So, um, he apparently questioned the legality of his hiring because of this quote strange and quote irregular indirect contracting procedure of Mikkel's hiring. Okay.
So he found it strange and irregular because the logical thing would have been to just increase the amount paid to the court to law firm who represented the bank. Right. Or was there legal advisor. Right. Right.
But what happened was that the bank had decided to establish a separate channel in which the money being paid out by the bank monthly always in the same amount went directly into the hands of Mikkel. Yeah.
That's smells suspicious as hell. Okay. So I'm doing my best here to keep this clear. Let's hope everybody's with us. So let's take a break and then I'll introduce you to the three men who would have to answer for this crime. Okay.
Oh, exciting. Let's do that.
Okay, we're back. We're back. Okay. So let's find out about these three men that are going to have to answer right for this.
First, let's find out about Mario Mario Fernandez, the former president who was in charge of all these quote irregular activities that were taking place at Coochie Bank. According to Wikipedia, Mario Fernandez, Pellas was born November 4 1943 in Bilbao going to the very beginning.
I'm happy that you have a nice town. He grew up on a farm. He didn't. He graduated in law from the University of Deuces though in 1965. And since 1966, he's practiced as a lawyer.
So is a well known university in Bilbao. And they're well known for having law as well. Yeah. He's also a professor of commercial law at the business school at the University of Deuces.
He was also active in politics.
He was a member of the Bass Nationalist Party PNV. Yeah, Ben and when considering. And in March of 1980, he was included in the first cabinet of the bass government after its restoration, post dictatorship.
Nice. He was chosen by the then Linda Cari Carlos got I quote, yeah.
Right, the land the county is the president of the best country.
He was chosen by him to head the Labor Department. And in January of 1982, got I quote, yeah, appointed him as vice Linda.
Oh, wow. So this appointment made Fernandez like the number two bass executive and in charge of negotiating the transfer of powers with the government of Spain for the autonomous region of the bass country.
Yeah, that was a very important time in history in terms of, you know, there were coming out of dictatorship and they were getting back the autonomy and sort of, yeah, it's serious negotiations there.
Yeah, important things. Yes. So he was right there at the table.
So yeah, at this time, the democracy in the Constitution of Spain has been secured post dictatorship and the formation of the autonomous regions were being established and their terms with their rights and responsibilities were being negotiated with the Spanish government.
So our main man Mario was right there. Right. Interesting.
Sitting there at the table with these agreements, you know, making these agreements between Spain and the bass country.
Got I co chair resigned as Linda Cardi in January 27th of 1985 and was replaced in this post by Jose Antonio Arranza, who was loyal to the leadership of the PNV.
The Bass Nationalist Party in September of 1986. Then there was a new political party that came about, led by got I co chair called us go out.
Yeah, very good.
So that he created this new party.
At that time.
So this was a split of these two national parties. Yeah. Yeah. And for a little bit of context PNV is the biggest party to date in the bass country.
By far, they've been in power for a very long time. I mean, they know. Yeah, they were not in power for four years in this guy.
But other provinces have had other more more variety and parties that the party are sorry, the province with the strongest connection to PNV is this guy where we live.
Yeah.
Because here we've only had one four year term that hasn't been PNV. Yeah. And they're actually more conservative.
They're they're center rights. Yeah. Yeah. So they're fiscally conservative. And they Yeah, they came more from a sort of conservative Christian right movements in the best country.
That's kind of their vibe. Yeah. When Mario left his post as vice Linda Cardi.
When
His name again.
Got I got you resigned.
He went to join this new party as well. Oh, really interesting.
And then he went on to head up the newly established parties candidate list for Bilbao City Council.
Okay.
So in June of 1987, it seems that that his time at City Council was unsuccessful or unpopular.
Okay. I guess he wasn't a very good politician.
He was he was elected.
Yeah.
Okay.
So he withdrew from City Council altogether or in politics altogether.
Okay. So what year are we talking about?
This is an 87.
87. Okay.
And currently he's not affiliated with any political party.
Okay. So after that, he just kind of stopped being in politics altogether.
I've given you all this background on Mario's political past to demonstrate how connected he was in vast politics.
Because I think it does influence how he goes about things in this and as his career progresses in November of 1996, the Basque government appointed him as a member of the USK the arbitration commission.
What is that you ask?
Yeah, I have no idea.
Let me tell you.
What?
I had to look into it myself.
Okay. So it's the institution in charge of resolving competition complex that may arise among the institutions of the autonomous community and those of each of its historical territories.
And as this position is so politically and economically charged in the year 2000, his name appeared on a published list of possible targets.
Right.
So what is it?
Anybody that lives here knows what it is, but maybe our listeners don't.
So I'll give you the Wikipedia definition of etta for our listeners who may not be familiar with their significance here in the history of the Basque Country.
So etta an acronym for us, scadi ta, askew, Tassouna.
Yes, it's got a task.
That's one that translates to Basque homeland and liberty or Basque Country and freedom.
It was an armed Basque nationalist and far left separatist organization in the Basque Country, which covers territory in northern Spain and southwestern France.
The group was founded in 1959 and later evolved from a group promoting traditional Basque culture to a paramilitary group engaged in violent campaign of bombing, assassinations and kidnappings throughout Spanish territory, especially in the southern Basque Country.
The part that's in Spain.
Its goal was gaining independence for the Basque Country.
It was the main group within the Basque National Liberation Movement and was the most important Basque participant in the Basque conflict.
So that's what it is.
Yes.
And so with this new position, Mario Fernandez was considered himself on the list of a potential target of theirs.
After moving away from active politics, he dedicated himself to private business.
He came to hold the position of legal director of legal affairs and a member of the Management Committee of BBVA, another bank, right?
Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentaria.
That's a bank bank.
Yes.
So it's one of the another of the largest banking institutions here and in the world.
It is indeed.
It's very big in Latin America, for example.
And then it was after leaving BBVA that he joined Uriaman and his law firm in 2002.
Okay.
So I just want to give you kind of like a little side story about his time at BBVA.
In April of that same year, he was involved the year of 2002.
He was involved in the scandal of the secret accounts of the BBVA bank that occurred when he was a senior bank official.
The Anti-Corruption Prosecutor's Office requested that he be charged in the case, but the judge did not consider it appropriate.
And in the end, he wasn't tried for these crimes.
But I'm going to tell you what this was.
Okay.
Ground to that story.
So in April of 2002, it was discovered that BBV before they merged with the Argentaria Bank maintained a secret account in the tax haven of Jersey for 13 years in which it had deposited a package of the bank's own shares,
which it later sold with capital gains of over 120 million euros.
Yummy.
The judge in this case opened a judicial criminal investigation for possible crimes of misappropriation, corporate crime of document falsification, corporate crime of dishonest administration, money laundering and bribery.
Was anybody sort of taken to justice?
I think so.
Okay.
But Mario did not.
He got out.
He got unscathed.
Yeah.
He was there at another banking scandal might not have had anything to do with.
He was just getting his feet wet in banking scandals.
Maybe.
Okay.
It was his first banking scandal.
Maybe.
I mean, you know, we're the first one that came to light.
But yeah, he did escape those charges.
So he wasn't tried for that.
So that didn't stop him from heading up another bank.
In July of 2009, he was elected as the new president of BBK, the savings bank here in Biscay.
Pre merger of the three savings banks that make up Coochie Bank.
Right today.
He's considered one of the masterminds behind achieving the merger of Coochie Bank.
Interesting.
He was appointed as the executive president of the newly created bank in 2012 when they merged.
And that was a position he held until the end of 2014.
Wow.
So shall we talk about Miguel?
Okay.
Let's get into Miguel.
Mario down.
Michael is next.
So Miguel Cabieces or Miguel Angel Cabieces Garcia.
He was well when he was born.
He was born in La Arboleda.
Back in the in the Valley Trapaga.
Yes.
Bilbao.
Yep.
On September 23rd, 1957.
Yeah, we've talked about Arboleda before.
We have.
Miguel, as he's now known publicly, like Mario Fernandez, also graduated with a law degree from the University of Dusto.
And also like Mario, he participated in politics.
As for his professional career as a lawyer, I don't really have a clear trajectory, but he later testified that he hadn't practiced like courtroom law since 1990.
But he did work is like in an advisory capacity on legal matters.
His career sounds like a cushy job to me.
So it seems that his political career and professional career are overlapping throughout his life.
He was a labor adviser for the Union General de Trabajadores, which is GT or the General Workers Union.
Yeah, it's one of the biggest.
Not the biggest.
Yeah.
He served on the board of directors for various companies and public entities.
He's held various organizational positions in the Socialist Party of Uscadi and then Uscadico Esquerra.
So they've combined it here.
PSE EE.
Right.
He was a city council member and then the first deputy mayor of Portogalete.
And then from 1995 to 2007, he was the mayor of Portogalete.
Okay, getting to know our neighbors.
Yeah, Portogalete.
Anything you want to say about Portogalete?
It's a very picturesque neighborhoods.
I mean, it's its own municipality.
And as you were saying, they have their own mayor, but it is connected by metro with Bilbao and it feels like a suburb from here.
But yeah, it's beautiful.
It has an old port with gorgeous architecture and a very famous bridge, the Portogalete Bridge, which is a hanging bridge.
What is a hanging bridge?
Well, look it up on a look it up because it's pretty hard to explain, but it's a crazy looking bridge.
We definitely recommend it.
It's a UNESCO World Heritage that that bridge.
Yeah, it's cool.
It's quite a fun, fun visit.
Yeah.
Okay, so he was also a member of the General Assembly of Biscaya, which is the highest legislative body of the province and historical territory of Biscaya.
So also very well connected.
Very, yes, clearly.
So after leaving the mayor's office, he became a government delegate in the Basque Country until 2012 when he was replaced by Carlos Riquijo.
Now it was in 2012 when all this shady business with Cuchabank all started, but more about that later.
And finally, it was in 2015 when he officially dropped his membership with the PSEEE, the Mass Socialist Party and the Leftwing Party.
After all this, you know, monkey business with Cuchabank came to light and he was being investigated.
So it appears that he left the party because of some perhaps not so subtle encouragement from party leaders.
Sounds appropriate.
Yeah.
In politics, you get dirty, you smell like you're going to have to go.
Okay.
So shall we take a break before we get into our third and final defendant?
That sounds like a plan.
Okay.
Okay, we're back.
We're back.
So now for the final piece of our puzzle and the third defendant in this case, Rafael Alcorta, his career and life are not as publicized, aka he doesn't have a Wikipedia page.
So I'll share with you what I do know about him from my online searches.
Okay.
Like his co-defendants, he also has a law degree from Deusto University.
Wouldn't you say that?
I know. Right?
Shocking.
But out here, you know, like you had said before, Deusto University is the most prestigious law school in Spain.
It's the oldest private university in the country and it was founded here in Bilbao by the Jesuits.
Why didn't that was famous outside the Basque Country, but it's nice to know.
He's been a member of the Colegio de la Abogacia of Biscayen, or Davis-Cayen, College of Law of Biscayen, since 1982.
In 1990, he established his practice on Mazarredo Street.
Downtown Bilbao. Very nice streets.
He's also a member of the public body of the Autonomous Community of the Basque Country, whose purpose is to promote dialogue and conflict resolution between the social part, the workers and unions, and the business part in the world of work.
It's also an advisory body to the Basque Parliament and government for matters relating to social and labor matters.
Nice. Good to know.
So this man's also well connected and right there at the table, right?
Yes. Very important decisions.
With banks, with government, with big companies.
So in 1998, he established Alcorta y Abogados, which is Alcorta and Associates, you know, I guess if it's a law firm.
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
And he moved his offices to the Albia building, which is Jardines de Albia, you know.
Like right near the courthouse.
So he was considered one of the five best labor lawyers in the region, and I, which I suppose garnered him a contract and a working relationship with BBK.
Right. Okay.
Makes sense. So you recall BBK was the primary banking savings institution here in Vizcaya.
Pre-merger with the other Cuchas.
So post-merger of the three Cuchas, creating Cucha Bank, he remained on as their labor advisor and participated in the labor negotiations for the bank.
Interesting.
So that's it. That's all I've got on him in terms of his professional.
Yeah. Sounds like an interesting.
So all three of these men, lawyers, all involved in politics in some way or another, maybe not Rob Fiel, Alcorta so much.
Right.
But in a way, because he's also dealing with unions and making these deals with business, the business world.
And then absolutely.
Banks deal with business and owners and workers.
Yeah.
It's all connected.
Yeah.
So the preliminary proceedings, the preliminary proceedings began in February of 2015.
This time the bank held a board of directors meeting to decide whether or not they would be part of the prosecutorial side of these proceedings.
So it was the new, you know, it was the new president of the bank, Gregorio Villa Labritia, who had brought the attention to the courts to this case after all.
So the board decided that the bank would not take part in this capacity at these proceedings.
So they wouldn't be part of the prosecution.
Okay.
So they, you know, from what I read, it seems like they felt that all this went down under different leadership.
And as it stood, you know, the bank was actually still being run the same way that Fernandez or Mario had left it.
Right.
But they wanted to overhaul the operations under the new leadership.
And they didn't want Coochie Bank to be associated with this type of, you know, misappropriation type of crime.
But like what I thought you meant, they don't want to be part of the prosecuting.
Right.
Because I'll get into that.
It's not just the prosecutor's office, the judicial office.
Other people can also be part of the prosecution.
So I'm going to tell you about that.
Okay.
Among those who were summoned to appear were the two of the men who have introduced you to the former president of the bank, Mario Fernandez, and the former government delegate of the Basque Country, Yucal Cabellet.
Right.
So they were ordered to testify on March 12th and 13th of 2015, along with the testimonies of Roberto Mol, who was the internal auditor at Coochie Bank and the head of HR at Coochie Bank.
Fernando, oh God, I forgot how to say his name, Lopez de?
Iguilas.
So after these preliminary proceedings, it was decided that they would in fact indict and charge Cabelletes, Fernandez, and Alcorta with some crimes.
Okay.
Interesting.
So in its indictment, the Basqueia prosecutor's office deemed that the three defendants acted, quote, through mutual agreement, unquote, and had caused economic damage to Coochie Bank.
Sounds like we're understanding that together.
I'm agreeing.
They requested a sentence of two years in prison and a 6,000-year-old fine for each man for the crime of unfair administration and the crime of falsifying a commercial document.
Alternatively, the popular accusation in this case requested a sentence of three years in prison for each for the continuous crime of misappropriation, along with the crime of forgery in a commercial document.
Additionally, they requested that during the time of their sentence, they would be disqualified from working in their respective fields.
So in the case of Mario Fernandez, he would be barred from holding a position as either like an administrator or to sit on any board of directors for any commercial entity.
Right.
And for Mikael Cabelletes and Rafael Alcorta, they would be banned from practicing law during the time of their sentence.
Yeah.
Okay.
Oh, just during the time.
Okay.
Yeah.
Just the time.
Interesting.
Yeah.
I mean, it could be more than that.
Yeah, right.
I mean, you give them a five-year ban, you know, or, you know, disbar them.
Yeah.
Permanently.
Yeah, I would like that.
Yeah.
Well, it depends how grave the crime was.
I mean, and it seems a bit redundant.
It's like he can't do these jobs while he's serving time.
It's like, you know, really, you have to say that.
Yeah.
And then it's like, you know, if he goes to jail for two years, he can't practice law for at least two years.
Right.
So he's going to anyway, yeah, exactly.
If he was, that would be ironic.
Yeah.
My lawyer is in jail.
Maybe Wally's in jail.
He's helping out of the prisoners by giving them legal advice.
I mean, that is reform, right?
That's your reform yourself there.
You're actually helping real people.
Maybe that's the only time it's allowed to.
Anyway.
So, okay.
So you might notice that I said the bill, the Biscayah prosecutor's office had requested one sentencing.
Right.
There was two years and then public.
Yeah.
And it doesn't know what it means.
And then there was the popular accusation.
Yeah.
Right.
So what is that?
Right.
Well, let me tell you about this.
I know.
Yes.
I learned a lot about the system.
Okay.
So this is a procedural figure that allows public participation of any citizen in justice.
It constitutes one of the ways to appear in the judicial process as an accuser.
The other two ways are the private accusation and the public prosecutor's office.
Okay.
So Article 101 of the criminal procedural law establishes that criminal action is public and that any Spanish citizen can bring it even if they're not directly affected by the crime.
It's also regulated in Article 125 of the Spanish constitution.
Okay.
So who can exercise popular accusation?
Any physical or legal person who is a Spanish citizen and enjoys full civil rights may present themselves voluntarily in popular accusation.
So not us, Julie.
No.
Well, I guess not because we're not citizens.
So now we can't.
We can't.
It can only be used for public crimes for the defense of society and legality, but not in private crimes or in military criminal procedures.
So isn't that interesting?
And remember when I went to that court...
It's a shame the military get out of it.
Yeah.
I want to be there.
Sorry, go on.
I want to be there.
When I went to that trial, one of the things that I was kind of surprised by was that there were several different people on the prosecution side and they represented different parts of the...
How should I say it? Like they represented different entities, I guess.
Like one was for gender violence laws or something, you know.
So like there was the prosecution, the prosecution's office of Vizcaya was there, but then there were also two or three other lawyers that were representing different entities for that case.
Interesting.
As part of the popular accusation, I guess.
That sounds very healthy if they're listened to.
Yeah.
So, well, I guess they're given the same weight.
No, I don't know.
They were all given the opportunity to question and request what sentencing they thought was appropriate.
You know, so they're all part of it.
Yeah, it sounds healthy.
I'm liking it.
Very interesting.
Yeah, I do like it.
Because not like that in the States.
No.
Okay, so the popular accusation in this case was representing various unions.
Okay.
So it was headed primarily by the labor unions Lab and Esk, L-A-B-E-S-K.
Right.
Which are...
Pretty big unions.
Yeah.
They included other unions such as STI Elias or STEE-EILAS, EHNE, and HIRIU.
H-I-I-R-U.
Yeah.
Also being represented was the social organizations EKA, BASC Association of Consumers and Users.
And the last one was the Uscalaría Pensioners Platform.
Okay, so all of these people were being represented by the popular accusation.
Okay, so it's under one umbrella.
Yeah, all of them kind of combined to be part of the prosecution in this case.
Okay.
Interesting.
Yeah.
So because Cuchibink is a somewhat public financial institution, these unions and social
organizations that made up the popular accusation felt that this was a public crime.
Indeed.
I think they get some sort of public funding for certain things, which is why they're considered
sort of public.
Yeah, I just wanted to.
Yeah.
I like that.
In these preliminary proceedings, the three defendants requested a out front dismissal
of the case.
This is absurd.
We're upstanding law.
What?
Yeah.
And especially, they wanted a dismissal, especially because Cuchibink didn't appear as one of
its prosecutors.
That's an interesting point.
I kind of...
It sounds like some lawyer was like, listen, you guys, we can just ask for a dismissal
because the entity that you've supposedly harmed isn't actually here accusing you of
anything.
Right?
It's an interesting situation.
Yeah.
However, the court decided to proceed with a trial which formally accused the three men
of having acted in coordination to pay Cabiefe's salary that represented an economic loss to
Cuchibank to the tune of 243,000 euros.
Okay.
So the trial would eventually be held in February of 2017.
Okay.
These preliminary hearings took place in 2050.
Okay.
So let's go to the trial.
At the outset of the trial, the labor union lab, LAB, who was at the forefront of the
popular accusation, held a rally in front of the courthouse in Bilbao with the slogan
No to Fraud.
You might remember these demonstrations happening around town during the trial because I remember
this.
I remember seeing like a lot of demonstrations in front of like the Cuchibank on Granvilla.
Right.
When I was researching this, I was like, Oh yeah, I remember that with all these, you
know, for several, several weeks.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm, I'm scratching my brain.
It's not saying anything.
Maybe because you probably aren't on Granvilla that much.
And I was, I was there because I was walking to work, you know.
Granvilla for, for our listeners is, is equivalent to the British high street or main street
in America, main street in America.
Exactly.
And it would be, yeah, the Granvilla, the great way.
So it would be lots of cities have a Granvilla in Bilbao.
Lopesteado, isn't it?
That's the name.
Granvilla Lopesteado is not the same thing.
I don't know.
Anyway, we have one.
No, but I do remember, I do remember there being a lot of protests in front of the bank.
Okay.
So, um, at the trial, which lasted three days, what do you think these men used as their
defense?
I think they were all in Dubai for three months and they have photos of them in this seven
star hotel the whole time and they have to be in that's where they were.
Yeah.
They were in Dubai in a cab.
Mario was not running the bank.
No, Rafael was not in charge of his law firm.
I mean, he was on the phone, you know.
Yeah.
I guess you could commit a crime from Dubai as well.
Right?
Yeah.
If these guys have to specify you can't be a lawyer whilst you're in prison.
Yeah, I suppose it could be a lawyer from Dubai.
I can't, I can't think of, I mean, these justifications to me always sound ridiculous.
So I could come up with anything ridiculous.
Well, they did try to defend themselves.
Okay.
So we'll get into that.
Um, should we take a break though before we do?
Let's do that before we go to the trial.
Okay, let's take a break.
See you guys soon.
Okay, we're back.
We're back.
Okay.
So let's start with Mario Fernandez, the president of the bank, right?
According to Mario, he was contacted by quote, a high ranking individual from a political
party and two others from another organization or political party to try to find some of
some kind of job opportunity for Mikhail Kavyev is, but not a paid position end quote.
Okay.
So he didn't publicly name any of these people who contacted him with this request, obviously.
But what do you think he meant by not a paid position?
Like not a legit job, not like a job, you know, a job, but not a job, right?
I mean, I think about the poor lawyer.
He just came out of law school 30 years ago.
He needs some training, right?
He needs some, what do you call it?
What do you call it when you're like making coffee for the guys?
Like an intern?
Exactly.
He's an internship at the bank.
Just to prove that just to prove what interns do.
He knows.
He knows what's, you know, unless you're an intern in the best country, then you're required
to be like to do the actual job of the position that you've been hired for, but you're being
paid as an intern.
Yeah.
I mean, clearly not.
Cause this guy is like, you know, right?
No, not in this case.
Yeah.
I don't think that was the case here.
That's why I was being ironic.
Yeah.
They weren't looking for an internship.
So he went on to say that this was common practice for people in a situation like that
of Mikhail's as an ex delegate leading politics.
He insisted that at all times his actions were about finding and giving him a job and
not about paying him for services that were not going to be provided.
He went on to say that he was willing to help out Mikhail because it was his social duty
to protect and assist those who've been on the front lines, politically speaking, of
the fight against terrorism.
Oh my gosh.
That is so one sided.
Sure.
I'm listening to this.
Uh huh.
At this point, anyone who's from the best country or lives here knows that this is a
reference to Etta, who I told you about at the beginning of the story.
So at this time, I won't be going into Etta at any length, but for the purposes of this
story as it pertains to part of his defense, I'll mention what he had said at the trial.
So in his testimony, Mario brought up the story of a former civil governor of Kipuskwa,
Juan Maria Jauregui, who'd had a similar position, a political position as Mikhail.
Upon retirement from that position, the Spanish government posted Jauregui to live in Chile.
It was when he returned to Kipuskwa for a holiday or vacation and without his bodyguard,
who usually accompanied him, that he was shot and killed while sitting at a cafe in Tolosa,
which is a small town near San Sebastian, Dinostia.
So Mario Fernandez was using this story to bolster his cred that he was just trying to
fulfill his civic duty to help Mikhail out with a job.
One article from El Español stated, quote, Fernandez assured the court that his actions
were motivated by the socio-political context of the Basque country and the unwritten rule
of collaborating in the return to civilian life of those who actively participated in
the fight against ETA.
So that's his defense or part of his defense.
Sounds very odd.
Coming back to civilian life?
Where were you in prison?
Like, I mean, surely you were a government officer.
Sounds like you were dodging bullets.
Or that they were like, you know, posted in Chile fighting ETA.
I mean, come on.
I know.
OK.
Yeah.
Sure.
That was his try.
Not impressing Douglas.
I can see that from your face.
For listeners, Douglas is not impressed by his face.
Additionally, it seems that some bad blood resurfaced during the trial and in Mario's
testimony.
So according to an article in El País, Mario Fernandez was replaced as the president of
Cucha Bank when he fell out of favor with PNV, the Basque Nationalist Party, the conservative
one that's been in power for a long as time.
Indeed.
Due to his commitment to bringing in new investors into the bank, whose only shareholders at
the time continued to be the three savings banks from the merger of BBK, Cucha and Vidal,
which were now converted under his leadership into banking foundations.
OK.
So I suppose that the politicians and the unions that, you know, because a lot of times
these political parties also have unions support and right.
So I think they had an issue with him.
Therefore, they replaced him because the bank was now becoming more privatized as a business,
less of a public institution.
As as savings banks, the Cuchas were as a savings bank.
Now this is some information I got from my friend Natalia.
Saving banks are required to reinvest into the communities that they serve.
OK.
Yes.
So that's my that's what my friend Natalia gave me.
That's the information he gave me, like the difference between a savings bank and then
like a bank bank.
Yeah.
Right.
So I'm not going to remain unnamed Cucha that they're a great part of their giving back
to society is and you'll recognize this when I tell you, do you know the sort of schemes
that you have that are, you know, very typical of many Cuchas, which is like deposit a thousand
euros here and you'll get a free pressure cooker.
I can't tell you how many beds we have.
So all those things, they are counted as giving back to society.
Yeah.
So I'm just saying I believe it.
I totally believe it.
Surely that's marketing.
And people are looking at me going, OK, so additionally, as part of Mario's defense,
he claimed that he'd made good on this discrepancy in the books at Cucha Bank, i.e. the money
paid to Cavieffes in exchange for his services of labor lawyer.
So when this was brought to Mario's attention by the new president and the board of directors,
like when they found this little discrepancy discrepancy in the books, he immediately wrote
a check to Cucha Bank on January 13th, 2015 for two hundred and forty three thousand nine
five hundred ninety two euros.
What an efficient gentleman out of his own pocket.
I mean, yeah.
First of all, this guy's minted like if you were asked to write a check for that amount,
it would take me a lifetime or months.
It would take me a lifetime or a few lifetimes to write a check in that amount in the sense
that even if you don't have that, you could ask for loans in months.
That's what I meant.
OK, like I don't mean like damn Douglas.
I mean, again, I could sell my apartment in months and then use that money, but I can't
get to two hundred and forty two hundred and forty thousand.
Yeah.
So, yeah, he had the cash on hand, wrote a check on the spot.
How nice.
So he had thought that he'd satisfied the new president and the board of directors by
resolving this issue by throwing money at it.
But he was sorely mistaken because only 18 days later, the alabeta of the new president
or Betty, no, be at La Beatia would denounce him before the best prosecutor's office and
start this whole shit show.
So I'm going to say that was a good decision.
Yeah, I'm going to say that these two guys didn't have.
I have a feeling they want to take him down.
Regardless, he tried to throw some money at it.
Like, oh, no, no, guys, come on, let's just forget about it.
Yeah.
And he tried to dislike, oh, here, here's the money.
Clearly don't ask about any more questions.
Don't do anything about this.
Clearly.
And then he was like, man, I'm going to take this.
But even the substitution of him as head of Bibicca sounded like it was political.
So, you know, it's all.
Yeah, it was definitely levers.
Sounds like the political parties have a say in who becomes the president of these.
Oh, they do, though.
They definitely do.
But because which is kind of strange to me, but I don't know if that's that's why it's
a semi public institution.
Yeah.
I mean, clearly giving money from your pocket shouldn't be a part of it.
Yeah.
It's just not like how could you justify that?
He's like, yeah, he's admitting.
Yeah, he is by giving the check to them.
Yeah.
Right there.
Right.
Yeah.
Like he knew what he had done.
Yeah.
Was not cool.
Yeah.
And was fraud.
It sounds like he was defrauding the bank.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah.
I'm with you, Jones.
I'm with you.
OK.
So in his testimony, he explained that there were certain lines he wouldn't cross in providing
this quote job for Mikkel, one of which was that Mikkel would never actually hold a position
at Coochie Bank.
So he didn't want him to be working directly with the bank at all.
Which which is true because it doesn't seem like he did anything.
No, no.
But he did what he could to find him something.
OK.
So he also wants to find a job where I don't need to do anything or get no shit.
Right.
Isn't that the dream?
Even if I don't get a salary, it's like, yeah, I work full time at a bank.
That's nice.
You know, on paper.
I mean, if they say I'm working 40 hours, I mean, I can retire now.
Right.
I guess.
He also stressed in his testimony that he never intended to harm Coochie Bank.
And in case there were any doubters out there, he reminded the court that he'd paid the money
back in an afternoon.
An afternoon.
Yeah, I like that.
How he's highlighting how easy it was for him.
Yeah.
He continued to regale the court with self congratulatory, self congratulatory spiels
like thanks to myself and my team, Coochie Bank was a masterpiece.
And the mere suspicion that I could have personally caused damage to the bank disgusts me.
No, I imagine my mistakes.
Oh, the gentleman.
You make it come alive.
Right.
He's the victim here.
Right.
All right.
So that was me.
That was Mario's defense.
Right.
So let's move on to Mikkel Mikkel.
Mikkel claimed that in 2012, after resigning from holding political office, he joined the
law offices of Rafael Corta, Coochie Bank's external labor advisor.
He testified that it was Rafael Alcorta who contacted him and offered him a job for matters
that related to Coochie Bank and his law practice.
Already some inconsistencies here.
Yeah, they didn't get together.
Yeah, he's never talked to Mario.
He said he had he said, quote, he had every intention of returning to work as a labor
lawyer after leaving the front lines of political activity.
Quotes.
So don't you just love how these guys keep using like war metaphors to refer to their
time in politics?
Yeah, it's a little hyperbolic.
No, absolutely.
I mean, by that time, at that was barely active.
Yeah, as if.
So despite despite the fact that he'd not practiced law since 1990, he maintained that
he was perfectly qualified for this advisory type of work.
He vehemently denied that he has ever in his life been paid for doing nothing in exchange,
which you know, I find really hard to believe as a politician.
Oh, yeah.
But you did not.
Then you get a salary.
Isn't that enough proof?
Excuse me.
I mean, I don't know.
OK, so he insisted that he was paid for his work as a legal consultant to Coochie Bank.
Moreover, he claimed that he was completely unaware that Mario Fernandez had obtained
a position for him at the bank.
This was all news to him.
He's never he you know, it's all news to him because he never actually applied for such
a position.
Oh, the plot thing.
According to him, he just got a call from Rafael one day to say, hey, come work for
me and I want you to be in charge of the Coochie Bank.
And he said no.
And he took the job.
Oh, it was like he was contacted.
All right.
OK.
And no idea that Mario had anything to do with him.
OK.
But he claims he did some work.
I'm seeing it looks like it's.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
So he yeah.
He had no idea that it was Coochie Bank.
He was paying his salary.
Oh, really?
Five thousand eight hundred euros a month.
How convenient just for he was, he thought it was the law firm that he was not working
for.
Yeah.
And he was offered a job.
Just just in case you're not used to Europe, that's about the same as dollars.
So it's like almost six thousand dollars per month.
Yeah.
Now, as evidenced in court at the time, in Mikkel's hiring, Coochie Bank had suddenly
increased its monthly payments to the offices of Rafael Corto in precisely that amount,
the five thousand eight hundred a month.
And it seems all of that was being paid directly to Mikkel.
Yeah.
Like I just said.
So he was questioned at trial about whether or not he actually worked for Alcorta's office,
to which they found the prosecution found that he went sporadically, quote, and without
stating the frequency or volume and intensity of the work that he fulfilled for the law
office.
Mm hmm.
OK.
Mm hmm.
And he had many reports or meetings in the bank's records to show that he was ever advising
Coochie Bank at all.
OK.
So in my research, I never found that Mikkel had produced any evidence in court to demonstrate
that he did, in fact, provide any work for Coochie Bank.
You'd think, you know, that would try his best defense in this case is like, here's
what I did.
These are the cases I tried or these are the, you know, labor disputes that I consulted
on.
Yeah.
Something.
He brought nothing to court.
Yeah.
OK.
To show that he actually did work.
He just basically just to take my word for it was his defense.
Take my word for it that I did work.
OK.
So we'll take a break here and then I'll continue with Mikkel's testimony.
Let's do that.
All right.
We're back.
OK.
So we're going to continue here with Mikkel's testimony in court.
Mikkel stood by his claims that he'd done nothing wrong.
He had done his job and that he felt victimized by these slanderous claims of corruption to
benefit him financially at the expense of Coochie Bank's assets.
So he went on to lament the fact that in January of 2015, when these allegations came to light,
that he was encouraged by party leaders to leave his political party, the PSE hyphen EE.
So the Bass Socialist Party and the left wing party.
So in a statement at the time, the Uscadi Socialist Party explained that as these facts
were known or were found out, the general secretary of the Bass Socialist, Idoia Mendia,
asked Mikkel for clarification on the matter.
After receiving this is like from an article, right?
So I'm reading this kind of like what was said.
After receiving the appropriate explanations, the general secretary and Kabietis himself
have agreed to the latter's resignation from his position as secretary of institutional
reforms of the executive commission of Uscadi.
In addition, Kabietis has requested his temporary dismissal as a party member so that no one
can use this matter against the organization.
Sounds responsible for the party.
I mean, yeah.
But wait for this Douglas, you got to hold on to that chapella a little harder now.
Hold on tight.
It wasn't only these accusations that the party leaders felt would invite negative attention
to the party.
Oh, in addition to the corruption and misappropriation charges being levied against him, Mikkel was
also going to be criminally charged by the popular accusation, right?
Headed by those labor unions and other like social organizations for collecting unemployment
benefits from 2012 to 2013.
Oh, yeah.
Can you believe this guy?
Like I'm assuming he was working at the same time.
Yeah.
So it was found during this year that he received 14,000 euros while drawing a combined salary
of 110 euros a year from Coochie Bank and Iberdrola.
110,000 110,000.
Yeah.
What did I say?
110 dollars.
110,000 euros from Coochie Bank and Iberdrola, which I suppose he was also working for, right?
In addition to his work at his work, quote unquote, at Coochie Bank.
We always think like the system would realize if we're getting a salary whilst we're getting
unemployment benefits.
Funny how and what was this 2017?
It was 2012, 2012, 2013.
2013, 2013.
Collecting this unemployment.
More leeway for the automatic system not to be working, but come on.
Yeah.
Come on.
All right.
So I'm going to go into what that was all about.
Okay.
So in court, Mikkel denied this claim and explained that he did request unemployment benefits
after leaving his post as a government delegate in January of 2012 because he was in fact
unemployed at the time.
He went on to say that he only received those benefits until March 1st of that year, approximately
like a month and a half.
So according to him, so it was in March that he registered in the special regime, sorry,
the special regime for self-employed workers to practice as a lawyer.
So basically he's self-employed from March.
So yeah, as a result of this new status by registering as a self-employed worker, he
claims that anything he received from March 1st on was not technically an unemployment
benefit.
Okay.
So stay with me.
I'm a bit already.
No.
Okay.
I'm going to explain.
So when registering, he opted for what's called quote, the capitalization of unemployment.
So this is an option that allows those who are unemployed to become self-employed and
to receive an ENEM benefit.
ENEM stands for the National Employment Institute.
This benefit would be identical to their social security contribution at the start of their
new activity.
That's a typical thing.
So what you're being paid in unemployment.
If you have to file for unemployment, it's your social security contribution that you're
being paid.
Right.
It's based on your previous salary.
So whatever your unemployment benefit would be is what you would receive while you're
getting on your feet as a free agent.
Right.
In other words, he continued to receive the same monthly benefit, but it wasn't exactly
considered unemployment.
It was a benefit that I suppose is there to help those who are getting themselves set
up as a newly self-employed individual.
Right.
Yeah.
So he was being accused by the popular accusation of defrauding the social security system by
collecting this benefit when he clearly wasn't struggling for an income.
Yeah.
Well, clearly not.
No.
An allegation that Mikael found to be, quote, flatly false and slanderous.
Wow.
I'm sorry.
I do like my indignation.
Your indignation voice.
It works.
He pointed out that this came about at a particularly convenient time for the popular accusation
as it was during elections.
This came all about during an election period.
Yeah.
You can't get away from those, can you?
Yeah.
And where this could be like weaponized against his party.
Right.
Which is a good move.
He left that party.
Right.
So just to summarize how much Mikael was earning in the year from March of 2012 to March of
2013, he got around 60,000 euros yearly from Couchubank, about 40,000 euros from Iberdrola
and another 14,000 from his, quote, benefit from Enem.
Okay.
We haven't really mentioned Iberdrola yet, have we?
No, no.
And that's an energy company.
Yeah.
So, yeah, he was apparently working for them as well.
Do you want to tell our listeners who they are and their...
Iberdrola is a really big electricity company.
I was just checking it right now.
And today it's considered the third biggest electricity company in the world, which is
pretty big.
It is big, yeah.
I knew that.
They own...
Didn't they merge with like a Scottish...
Scottish Power is one of them.
And they also have some comp...
They merged with another company in Eastern...
East Coast US.
It's New York and Philadelphia, I think.
I forget the exact name of the company, but it's...
There's a big merger and now they're pretty powerful.
Yeah.
And they own a lot of companies in Latin America as well, which is how they get to be the biggest
country.
And they're the second biggest producer of electricity with wind by market capitalization.
So it's...
They're earning the second most money from winds just after Denmark.
All right.
So it seems though, like in this trial, that the judge rejected the request of the prosecution
offices or more specifically the popular accusation to expand the criminal investigation for alleged
crime against social security.
So he rejected that.
He rejected it.
Yeah.
The judge in this case.
And if they wish they could open specific proceedings in this matter at a different
time to investigate it in depth, which as of today, I never found anything about if
they ever did that for 14,000 euros.
They might not have.
Yeah.
Because this was in 2017, right?
So since then there haven't been...
Which I looked for.
Like if there were any other stories about him being tried for this, it doesn't seem
like there was.
Yeah.
I mean...
That they didn't pursue it.
Yeah.
I think it's...
If there was a case there, especially because he's...
And it's 14,000 euros.
A politician as well.
But even if it was 14, people would pursue it if there were easy ways in to that case,
right?
Yeah.
If they had a good case.
Yeah, exactly.
So I don't think...
He must have covered his back that way.
Yeah.
I mean, for the 14,000, there's a few dozens more thousand euros that we have to justify.
Yeah.
That's the whole point.
He got away with his unemployment benefit.
Yeah.
Okay.
So despite this being an issue they wanted to combine with the proceedings of the Kucha
Bank case, they were denied.
The whole point of the popular accusations involvement in these proceedings was to ask
the PENV, the Basque Nationalists, the more conservative Basque Nationalists, the PP,
which is the Popular Party is what it's called or translates to.
The right-wing party.
Right-wing party.
And the PSC, the Basque Socialist Party, to quote, stop favor agreements and revolving
doors as well as to quote, end the Kucha Bank privatization process.
Okay.
So that was their whole point of...
The associations.
... wanting to accuse, yeah, wanting to proceed with this case, I guess, that they found that
there was just too many favors being granted for these banks, between banks and political
parties and people within these parties to sit on boards of directors and stuff.
And it's interesting that they want to push it way further and actually stop the privatization,
which is a very typical left-wing demands.
Yeah.
But, you know, we can see there's a lot more politics coming into the conversation now.
Like, you know, this is no longer about some thousands of euros.
We don't want to privatize anymore.
I'm just saying they're political interests already.
Yeah.
The spokespersons for the popular accusation wanted to demonstrate that Mikhail Kavyaevsky
was not hired to provide any service at the bank as he did not actually carry out much
work as a lawyer for the office of the Alcorta firm.
And any and all work that he did do, which proved to be minimal, was not necessary for
Kuchibank.
They have denounced both the liquidation of the best savings banks, so they're pretty
mad about that, and the privatization of Kuchibank as a, quote, breeding ground for favorable
treatment between these political parties that I mentioned.
Sounds like it.
So that people like Kavyaevsky can hold positions as a member of the board of directors and
then move on to the board of trustees and therefore make all these choices in the future.
Okay.
And gain lots of salaries.
Very problematic.
All right.
So let's move on to the third defendant in this case, Rafael Alcorta.
The guy that has the law firm, right?
Okay.
So he's being charged as an accomplice in this whole debacle.
Okay.
So it has been established that at the beginning of 2012, Mikhail Kavyaevsky joined the law
offices of Rafael Alcorta, who was Kuchibank's external labor advisor.
At this time, Kuchibank increased its monthly pay to his offices to the tune of 5,800 euros,
plus an additional 900 for travel expenses, all to be paid directly to the former, this
former delegate.
It's funny that liars always need travel expenses.
Right.
Just a little joke here.
Alcorta testified that Kuchibank had quote, imposed the hiring of Kavyaevsky upon him
and describing his work as essential for his law firm.
Interesting.
Couldn't demonstrate that, but he declared that.
This is what he said, was told to him, right?
They imposed it on him.
Alcorta further detailed his interaction with Kuchibank, indicating that he'd had a conversation
with the director of human resources at the bank, Fernando Lopez de Aguilas.
He was saying that he had a conversation with him at the beginning of 2012.
He was told that he was to hire Kavyaevsky and that this request was coming directly
from the president of the bank, Mario Fernandez.
He testified that the HR director said, quote, this is the president's decision.
You have a new collaborator.
End quote.
Sounds like bass politics.
I believe the tone of the conversation for sure.
He went on to add that he was asked to increase his monthly invoice to the bank by about 5,000
euros to pay his salary.
According to Alcorta, he felt, quote, perplexed by these interactions and frustrated, quote,
by the imposition because at the time of all this, he'd been unsuccessfully demanding a
substantial increase in what the bank was paying him for his services.
My gosh.
So you didn't give it to him, gave it some weirdo.
Weirdo.
I mean, according to his point of view.
Like I've been wanting this money for a long time and instead they give it to this weirdo.
He claimed that his work load from Kuja Bank had increased considerably following the recent
merger of the three bass savings banks.
Because if you recall, like the merger, did I say something?
It sounded like murder.
I'm just making sure.
The merger.
The merger of the banks.
The murder of the Kuja banks.
Merger, darling, merger.
The merger.
So he claimed that his workload had increased following the merger between the three Kuja
banks, right?
Which if you recall, in 2012, this is when they imposed, they pushed Mikkel on his law
firm, like here, hire this man.
This man's part of your law firm.
But the merger happened in 2012 as well.
So you can imagine that there was probably a lot of work for the labor lawyer.
Indeed.
From that point on and for the next three years, Kavietis worked with his firm as a
collaborator in labor law for matters related to Kuja Bank.
Collaborator was an air quotes just for listening.
Yes.
He also assured the court that Kavietis guaranteed him that he was perfectly qualified for the
practice of labor law.
And that although he had some problems with him, it sounds like they had kind of a problematic
relationship.
Interesting.
Mikkel.
I mean, it would be if he wasn't doing anything.
Yeah.
And he got pushed on to him.
He's like, I didn't actually want to hire you, but here you are.
Finally how we're believing this.
He's the only one with some slightly believable information.
Yeah.
Oh, one hundred and forty thousand.
Here you go.
Yeah.
He sounds like the only one that's making some sense so far.
Yeah, he did say he had some problems with him, but later that the collaboration was
fluid and correct.
I don't know what that means.
We didn't talk.
He got a salary.
That's from Google Translate fluid, very fluid and correct.
That's why I put it in quotes.
So it went smoothly and it was quite appropriate.
Appropriate.
Yeah, it sounds good.
Good translation.
He went on to say that Mikkel did have a good command of labor law, but when it came to
judicial, judicial and legal practice, he was less qualified.
So I guess like in the courtroom or maybe filings or I don't know.
I'm not a lawyer.
It sounded like you said he he didn't have a good court, right?
Yeah.
But he never.
Right.
He hadn't done it since like 1990.
So when it came to that kind of stuff, he was not as qualified.
Rafa went on to note that it seemed to him that Mikkel had quote very interesting context
within the bank.
Sounds like it.
Yeah.
Furthermore, the increase that he was asked to invoice the bank wasn't a particularly
striking amount.
And at the time, it didn't raise any red flags for him.
But when it came time to end this collaboration with Kavya or Mikkel in 2014, the bank asked
Rafael to invoice him for I guess what would be the severance pay for Kavya.
Right.
So he's apparently working for the law for this law firm.
Yeah.
But then the contract they wanted for Mikkel was a three year thing.
Oh, right.
OK.
So I think that's what originally it started out as like it's only going to be three years.
Sure.
That we're going to give him this job.
Sure.
I'm believing you.
Also, I'm making a lot of speculations at this point, having read all this.
OK.
That I feel like they probably knew they could get away with it for three years, maybe sort
of thing.
Yeah, I got the vibe.
Let's do this for three years.
Yeah, I got that.
And that's it.
That's the only thing we're going to do for him.
And then he can go.
We can get away.
We can get some more applications and get another job somewhere else.
Yeah, we can get away with this for three years.
It sounded like that.
Right.
Yeah.
So when they contacted Alcorta or Rafael to end it, they also asked for like an increase
in the payment or the invoice that was being sent to Kuchibank, like for the severance pay.
OK.
Yeah.
But Alcorta, when this happened, Alcorta warned the bank that he could only bill them
for services provided, so what he could prove that the firm had provided to the bank.
Right.
He's on his he knows what he's doing.
What he's doing.
He's a lawyer.
And in the end, it appears as though this extra payout was never billed to the bank
because he was like, no, I can't do that.
Right.
He was.
Yeah, he was.
So I responsible.
It looks like he didn't receive this extra pay that they were requesting.
Right.
So essentially, his defense in all this was that he was merely a passive participant in
a third party decision.
Interesting.
It makes sense from his point of view.
The president of the bank would have taken that decision and sounds like.
Yeah.
Believable.
Mm hmm.
So the testimonies of our three defendants made up the first two days of the trial.
Other notable testimonies were provided by Fernando Lopez de Aguilas, the head of human
resources at Coochie Bank, who pressured Rafael to collaborate, quote unquote, by hiring Mikhail
Cabieffis under the directive of Mario Fernandez and Roberto Moll, who I mentioned earlier
in the story, he was the director of the internal audit at Coochie Bank.
So he was the one that wrote the report that he gave to the new president, who then filed
a complaint with the prosecutor's office.
Yeah.
We're on the same page.
Incredibly.
Yeah.
So, um, why don't we take a break before we get into the sentencing?
Let's do that.
Okay.
So it was at the end of the trial in March of 2017.
It was ruled that Mikhail Cabieffis was convicted.
He would receive one year in prison and a 9,000 euro fine.
Penis, right?
As for Mario Fernandez and Rafael Corta, they each received a six month prison sentence
and a fine of 4,500 each euros each.
Nothing.
So Mikhail and Fernandez were charged with the crime of, or they were not charged, but
they were convicted of the crime of misappropriation of funds.
And Alcorta was charged, or not charged, sorry, sentenced, convicted for being an accomplice
in the misappropriation of funds.
Mikhail received the longer sentence as he was the one who profited from the whole exchange.
And it had been proven to the court's satisfaction that he had provided no service to the bank.
And no one from the entity controlled him and he reported to no one at the bank, right?
So that was proven in court.
Good to hear.
As for Mario Fernandez's defense that he was motivated by the socio-political context that
he was functioning under and simply fulfilling a civic duty in his collaboration and hiring,
as if Mikhail, the court accepted this motivation, but it disagreed with the way that he went
about finding him a job.
The court argued that instead of trying to hire Cavietes or Mikhail at the bank or at
one of its affiliated companies, he used his influence to get him a job in another company
and to instruct HR to increase the amount that the bank paid to that other company in
order to provide him with an economic amount.
So this backdoor antics that he pulled, the court was like, hmm, you know, like you could
have done the same thing by hiring him legitimately.
Yeah.
Plus, he said someone at the bank was given like a reference for another job, right?
Yeah.
Plus you also said in this podcast that at some point he was like, oh, I was not concerned
at all about his salary.
And then he later through some business was saying, oh, make sure that salary is paid
to him.
Yeah.
Through the law firm, right?
So he is contradicting himself entirely there.
And I guess that's well, he just his defense was just that like, I felt obliged to find
him a job because these politicians called me and asked me to find him a job.
Yeah.
So he didn't actually find him a job at Coochie Bank.
What he did was find him in the law firm and then make that company pay him some money
that Coochie Bank was going to directly pay him.
Yeah.
So the statement that he wasn't concerned with the money doesn't make sense because
he was making sure that he got paid, you know, just saying, just saying, I'm trying to be
the lawyer here.
It's the only thing I caught out of them.
OK, so and a quote from the sentencing quote, he acted personally outside the entity and
without involving it any time in an action completely unrelated to the ordinary activity
of the bank.
It sounds like they just want to leave the bank alone, but sure.
No, they're saying he as in charge as a man in charge of the bank, he didn't actually
use the bank, the bank by hiring him to provide any services to.
Oh, right.
Right.
But it's also it's nice and convenient that the bank is sort of free of charge.
You know, they didn't do anything wrong.
The bank itself, the institution, right, is privatized and clean and ready for investment
at this point.
Yeah.
Because he's now no longer in charge.
Right.
If it had come about while he was in charge, it would probably be a different story.
Sure.
Or they probably would just take him down.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Just like I don't like.
I mean, it's it's interesting how they kind of draw a line between him and the institution
of the.
Yeah.
That's it's amusing to me.
Yeah.
So Fernandez or Mario also received the reduced sentence due to the fact that he fully returned.
Oh, OK.
The two hundred and forty seven thousand euros that you killed received even before the filing
of the lawsuit.
So before any of this even was filed with the prosecution.
Yeah.
He paid that off.
So the ruling considers it proven that Fernandez acted with, quote, the intention of procuring
an economic benefit for Cavieffes and that this occurred at the expense of the entity's
assets.
Yes.
And with the instrumental participation of Alcorta's office.
Right.
So just basically, yeah.
Yeah.
He went a really roundabout way to get this all paid to him.
Alcorta's sentencing was also reduced as he was merely in a collaborator and not, I guess,
the mastermind of all this, you know.
Yeah.
So the ruling devoted several pages to justifying that Cavieffes' services were completely
unnecessary and to doubting the work that he carried out for Alcorta and the bank.
It is emphasized that the financial institution had no need to have Cavieffes and that the
monthly expense incurred was absolutely unjustified from the point of view of business logic.
In summary, it was financial aid and not a reinforcement for a future bank.
They didn't need him.
The court ruling concluded with, quote, the intention to benefit and the correlative harm
are evident and the three defendants were aware of this.
The court rejected, however, the prosecution's request to disqualify Cavieffes and Alcorta
from practicing law.
Ah.
As well as Fernandez from holding a position as administrator or board member.
Any other company.
So he can do it.
Yep.
He can keep practicing law and stick to their.
That's why the word justice isn't quite making sense here.
Anyway, the ruling noted that the required, quote, seriousness is not proven in the case
of the former president of Coochie Bank, although he, quote, overreached his duties.
Gosh, just a bunch of bunch of friends.
Other very powerful people are going, well, it's not that bad.
As for Alcorta and Cavieffes as lawyers, he considers that the, quote, enrichment on
which the crime of misappropriation is based did not have to do with a certain professional
performance or the breach of their duties as a lawyer.
I mean, I would get dragged against that.
I mean, right.
Yeah, of course.
He as a lawyer, you're supposed to legally knew how they could go around and finagle
this.
Yeah.
This whole thing, right?
Yeah.
You know, it's it's it's it's less uncomfortable than our first story where they judged there
was not cruelty, where there was clearly cruelty.
Yeah.
And this is this is the same sort of box of things.
It's like, yeah, you want to say that?
Well, if you want to say that with your freaking excuses, say that.
But we know it's not, you know.
Yeah.
I should not be a lawyer for at least a few years.
Yeah.
Like at least something.
They should have some kind of penalty.
Yeah, I'm going to say five.
There should be two or three does not sound enough, even if he was in jail.
He has to have serious consequences where he's not going to earn these hundreds of thousands
of dollars as a lawyer.
Yeah.
Daily.
And like what lawyers like a lawyer that's being condemned.
For breaking the law or breaking the law is still going to be paid full.
No problem representing whatever firms you want.
Yeah.
Get any job.
Yeah.
Anyway, I know, I know.
Me not happy to say, just saying.
Furthermore, the court acquitted them of the crime of falsifying a commercial document.
So this fraud count was in reference to some of the invoices that were provided by Alcorta's
law firm.
From what I've read, the accusation lacked the conciseness and precision in the account
of the facts and could not be proven.
So basically they couldn't prove that the fraud took place.
Sure.
With these invoices.
Yeah.
Or in these invoices.
It's probably an invoice that said he gave us great advice on X.
He did this X amount of job.
And it was like a dinner.
Yeah.
Anyway, we're getting to the bottom of this.
We're almost there.
Yeah.
So I searched forever to find out if any of these three men actually served any time in
prison.
Right.
It was with the help of my friend and ex student, Gisela, that she found that none of them went
to prison.
Oh my gosh.
Yep.
So this is information.
The news does not, you know, they talk about, you know, they go over the court case.
There's nothing more shocking.
Then there's never any mention about that.
They never actually went to prison.
Yes.
I know you can say fuck.
Yeah.
This is an explicit.
Just saying.
Yeah.
Go ahead and say it.
Let it out, Douglas.
Oh my gosh.
I know.
Well, she also indicated why.
Why are they didn't go to prison?
So she informed me that the prison sentence is suspended if it's less than two years with
certain conditions, such as being a first time offender or satisfying civic liability.
So that is fine.
I'm not sure.
I know it's okay.
So, which I imagine was the fine.
Okay.
Like as in we paid they paid the liabilities, which is nothing.
Sorry, which is nothing.
No, it's nothing.
I mean, he Kabbie has had to pay 9000 and the other two had to pay 4500.
Oh, then that was their fines.
Oh, right, right, right.
Yeah.
No, it's not.
So I don't know if that's what she meant by civic liability, but that sounds like it.
Yeah, I mean, isn't they satisfied their civic liability or their civil liability?
Not civic, but civil liability. Civil. Okay.
Throw words at us, right? They'll be punished to their public shaming.
That's how they dominate us. They just create words. They throw it at us. We don't understand.
And we're like, okay, well, I guess he's satisfied to civil liability, even though he fucking raped
her and killed her three times. Whatever, whatever. Just saying. Oh my god. Seriously. Yeah. So yeah.
Mixing cases. Mixing cases. I'm not implying anything on these very rich people that
definitely could kill us. So yeah, they had to pay some fines, which for them was like chump change.
It was nothing. 4,000 euros for 9,000. The guy wrote a check for 250,000 basically in one day.
Like here, 250,000. The interesting thing is though, if he hadn't written that check,
would he only be reliable to pay the 9,000? That's the one, right? Yeah. I think that's. So he saved
4,500 euros by writing that check. And now he's probably kicking himself. He's like, fuck, if I
had just not paid that. No, 4,500. Did I say 4,500? I don't, I think it's a hundred. His fine. No. Okay.
Fernandez was given a smaller prison sentence, six months and 4,500 euros fine because he had paid
that check to make up for what Pooja Bank had paid to Mikkel, right? That's why they gave him the
lower sentence. Okay. Right. So he's probably kicking himself because Mikkel got a year in prison,
which he never had served. Yes. And had to pay 9,000. So, you know, he paid half of what Mikkel
paid, right? But he's probably kicking himself because he's like, fuck, I never actually had to
pay that 250,000 to the bank. Exactly. Yes. Yes. If this was just going to be. Exactly. I could have
just paid 9,000 like Mikkel and never actually have to serve a day in prison. We were in the same page.
I was just scared about names of people. Okay. It's ridiculous. Are you following Megan? Were we on
the same page? Okay. We're on the same page listeners, just for those listening in. Oh gosh. Okay.
In the trial, Kabyitha's defense are alleged that his right to privacy had been violated. Oh my gosh.
When the court examined his bank accounts without his authorization and without the mandatory
judicial authorization. I mean, if they don't have it in mind. Sure. He knows the ins and outs. He sure
does. What is the freaking law, the court doing, not doing its judicial proper steps? Yeah.
Proper steps. Yeah. Whilst investors, I mean, also right? Like is he catching us on a legality? Yeah.
The actual court didn't do correctly. He's like counter attack, counter attack. How to get away with anything.
So the court decided to postpone the analysis of his allegation. So they didn't even address it at
the time. The allegation of. That they had violated his privacy. I mean. Examining his bank accounts.
He didn't even go to jail. Who cares? Yeah. Mario Fernandez announced that he will appeal the ruling.
In a statement, he shared his respect for the magistrate's decision, but that he will appeal,
declaring quote, I have a clear conscience. I am going to appeal because never, and this has been
proven, have I acted in accordance with my own interests. What, what never have I acted according
to my own interests? In accordance with my own interests. Never have I acted. Like it wasn't for his own benefit.
This doesn't make sense to me, darling. I have never acted in my interests. In accordance with my own interests.
I wasn't acting for my own, for my personal gain. But not never in that case, then. Yeah. He wasn't acting
in that case, apparently. Okay. He was saying never has he done that. Well, that means he would never
have lifted a bowl of soup to his mouth because that's in his interest to survive. Oh, okay.
Has he never acted in his own interests? Well, maybe. Has everybody just given him soup? Maybe he just met in this case.
In this case. Anyway. He's talking about his own case. In this case. Just saying. Not in general, maybe.
I'm just saying. Freaking words. Douglas is riled up. If the only thing we have is words, I can only listen to words.
And these words are coming from Google Translate. I'm trying to quote him. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure.
So I'm trying to keep it as close to his quote. I've forgotten that part now.
Trying to keep it as close to his quote. Sure. Sure. Sure. So that's how it was translated. Okay. Sure.
You're surprised that I'm angry, Julie? No. Surely not. Not at all. Okay. So he went on to say that the presumption of innocence has been violated and generated a situation of defenselessness.
Instead of proving the alleged criminal acts, the defendants have had to prove their innocence.
Right. He announced his goal of cleaning up his professional honor and insisting that his innocence be proven.
At the head of the bank were always quote legal and ethical and in the defense of the entity's interests.
Bullshit. Bullshit. The court of law proved that you are guilty. Yeah. But he's going to appeal.
Apparently. And he did. He did. Yes, he did. Did he what? He did. He did. He did. He did.
Well, fucking bastards. No, he didn't. But that's a spoiler. Okay. So I still don't know what happens.
Okay. So not everyone was happy with the sentences. Okay. I'm not happy. Like Doug. I feel this. I feel in the same boat.
I feel as outraged as were other people. Okay. So for example, E.H. Bildu, which is a left-wing nationalist and Basque independence party.
Yes, that's my people. Okay. That's the party you vote for usually. Okay. When they let me.
I'm only allowed to vote in municipal elections right now. Yeah. Yeah. That's a situation for residents, not civilians, right?
Or citizens, I should say. If we're not citizens, we can't vote nationally. We have to vote locally. Exactly. Right. Exactly.
We're allowed to vote locally. I was confused by your wording. That's correct. So anyways, these, this party was disappointed with one aspect of the sentencing.
In the aftermath, they felt that the sentence must have, quote, political consequences since it shows that the Basque nationalist party, PNB,
and the Basque socialist party, PSE, used Cucha Bank and its capital to pay mutual political favors. Yeah. Unquote.
The Albert Sale coalition, which is a coalition of various left-winging Basque nationalist and independence parties, including E.H. Bildu,
has stressed that the appointment of Fernandez to preside over the bank was, quote, forged after a three-way agreement between the Basque nationalist party, PNB,
and the, which is the conservative right-wing leaning Basque nationalist, and the PSE, the Basque socialist party, and the PP, which was the popular party,
which is a conservative party, or right-wing party. Right-wing.
They went on to say that the former president of Cucha Bank ordered the payments to Cavieftes after requests from members within those three parties.
E.H. Bildu could not understand why this sentence did not entail the assumption of political responsibility by the representatives of these three parties.
Agreed entirely. Yeah. Wonder why I won't vote for them. Yeah.
So with respect to Mario Fernandez's appeal that you were wondering about.
Mm. We're all wondering about. We're all wondering about. Everybody's on the edge of their seats at this point.
Yes. What happened? They didn't go to jail or anything. Okay. So in February of 2018, the Supreme Court has confirmed the sentence of six months in prison that was imposed in March of 2017 by the Vizcaya Court's ruling for misappropriation.
Mm. As a result, well, he never actually went to prison. No. Right? But at least he was condemned to prison.
Yeah. They held up the conviction. Right. Good. So as a result, Fernandez has resigned from the board of directors at Repsol, a position he'd held since 2011.
That's the oil company. Yeah. Of. Well, I don't know where it started. It's the biggest Spanish one that we know of. Yeah. I think off the top of our heads.
Yeah. I mean, historically, I think it's the most important one, like Shell in the Netherlands, whether they're still the biggest or not, we don't know. But. So the oil company had decided not to demand his resignation until the sentence was final.
So when the sentence was final, he had his last salary. My little friend, poor little Mario has to find another job. But he's probably like in his seventies now.
So he's like, I'll just retire with all this cash. Do you mean ready for presidency like in other countries?
It's going to run for. I'll run for president as long as I don't as long as I know not to vote for this. It'll be fine.
It'll be cool. Oh, and. None of this is a problem to run for president.
Now, as for Rafael Cortez, he was in the news in June of twenty twenty two when his law firm Alcortes and Associates was absorbed through a merger by a much larger national and international law firm of Sargaday, which you may have heard of Sargaday and Associates.
The offices that Alcorta held in Bilbao have become the newest branch of this big wig law firm that holds offices and sway all over the peninsula. Interesting.
So our little accomplice, Rafael, is doing a. OK. Sounds like he's fine.
And then I couldn't find out much about what Mikhail Kavyev is is up to these days, but he's probably fine.
We're going to assume he's very fine sipping some much better than wine than we are. Yeah, for sure.
Send somebody out to pick it up. Oh, for sure.
However, in one article from March of twenty eighteen, a municipal group called the Porto Lujo Despierta, the name of the group,
had presented a motion requesting the removal of his portrait, which hangs in the assembly hall of Portugalete's Town Hall.
Absolutely. Which, if you recall, he was the mayor there from 1995 to 2008.
You mean disgraced mayor? Yeah, that's what I shall refer to him from now on.
Oh, you mean Kavyev is the disgraced mayor of Portugalete.
So the removal of the portrait was rejected by the votes cast by guess who? The Bass Socialist Party, the popular party.
OK. But PNV, the Nationalist Party, abstained from voting. Well done.
They indicated that they do not understand why the general secretary of the Bass Socialist Party of Piscaya and the mayor of Portugalete, Michael Torres,
Michael Torres, decided to keep quiet about the cases of corruption into their party during the Cuchipin case.
In addition, they've indicated they're deeply outraged by the abstentions, abstentions by the PNV members because, quote,
once again, they're looking for excuses not to position themselves clearly. I agree with that.
It's just that the thing is, if they had voted not to take his photo down, his painting down, it would be a clear.
They're clearly taking sides, which is the wrong side.
Let me just highlight here. And at least they're being neutral in the sense that, well, you know,
if we don't vote, then nobody can say we went either way.
I mean, at least they're not on his freaking side. They just don't want to say.
Yeah. Whereas the unionist parties are very happy to cozy up to little corrupt boys.
We can see just highlighting from my personal point of view, the most outraged he's ever been on this podcast.
Right. I'm going to finish it up with the spokesman for Puerto Delugos Disfierta, John Medrano,
considered it, quote, a tremendous exercise in cynicism that these parties refuse to position themselves against corruption
when they have it in front of their noses. Yeah. That's what I agree with.
His portrait can still be seen there today. That's what I agree with.
And there you go. That is the case of Cuchibank and Cavieves.
Yeah. There's only one thing in my head right now.
Do you know all these people that are fighting for like nature and freaking paintings up?
Yeah. I will leave it in the listener's imagination what I'm thinking.
OK. Let's hope some some some some young ones who who want to help politics become nicer.
Yeah. Understand my message.
Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, it's that was very interesting.
And now hopefully we know what people are talking about when they bring out this cabezas guy.
If anybody brings it up, you'd be like, oh, I know all about that.
Finally, we bid you agur.
Crimes of the Basque Lands is written and produced by Douglas Di Carvalho, Julie Garcia,
and Megan Dooley, the sound and editing for each episode by Douglas Di Carvalho.
I'm Megan Dooley theme song written by Douglas Di Carvalho, Julie Garcia,
I'm Megan Dooley, sung by the choir with no name and produced by Tom Squires podcast art by Distinct
Signal. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Crimes of the Basque Lands and contact us at
crimes of the Basque Lands at Gmail dot com with story ideas worldwide, which have a connection to
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