Hello everyone and welcome back to Unlimited Parenting.
Today we are very excited to have an incredible guest with us, the Samantha Foote.
Samantha is a neurodivergent mom to three neurodivergent children.
She is a board certified neurologic music therapy fellow, founder of Boise Music Therapy
Company and host of the Every Brain is Different podcast.
So whether you're a parent, a caregiver, or you're just curious about the incredible impact
of music on the brain, you happen to be in the right spot.
So let's dive in.
Welcome, Samantha.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me on the show.
Yes, thank you for being here.
Can I start by asking what got you interested in doing all of the stuff and the things?
Pediatrics, music therapy, what was the inspiration for that?
Yes.
So when I was four years old, I started piano lessons and that grew my love of music.
And when I was a junior in high school, I was like, I have to know what I'm studying
in college.
And I wanted to do something with music and I want to do something with psychology, but
I did not know what that could possibly be.
And so I was looking on this college review site and it mentioned music therapy, which
looking back on it, it did not describe music therapy well at all.
It was horrible, but it got me into the field where I could use music functionally because
I did not want to be a performer.
I didn't want to be a teacher.
I wanted to use music functionally to help people.
And that's what music therapy does.
It uses music to accomplish non-musical goals.
So we work with communication skills, motor skills, cognitive, social, emotional, all
those different things.
You can use music to work on them.
And then I got really interested in working with the autistic population.
And so I started my practice and I work with kids who are neurodivergent.
I also work with adults, but yeah, that's where that started from.
Yeah.
Can you explain the difference between neurologic music therapy and then how that differs from
a more traditional music therapy approach?
Is there a difference?
I think the neurologic music therapy is just the approach that I'm using or there's like
behavioral, humanistic, different, there's many different approaches to music therapy
and I just use neurologic music therapy and none of them are right.
None of them are wrong.
It's just a different approach.
And so neurologic music therapy is really based in research and how music affects the brain
and how we can use music functionally to change something that someone's doing.
So to change neural pathways in the brain.
So when we do music therapy, it's actually changing neural pathways in your brain to
do new things that you couldn't do before.
A really good example and a really dramatic example of this that got a lot of media attention
was the story of Gabby Giffords, who was a congresswoman who had a traumatic brain injury.
She had speech therapy, occupational therapy, physical therapy, all the therapies, and also
she had music therapy and so they used neurologic music therapy with her.
They were able to help her speak.
They were able to help her sing before she could speak and then that created the new
neural pathways in her brain to help her speak because the part of her brain that was damaged
was the part that produces speech and all of that.
And so music accesses more of the brain than any other stimulus.
So it was able to access a different part of her brain and then create that pathway
where she could speak again.
That's amazing.
Yeah, it's so cool.
Yeah, that's the story that goes on the pamphlet, right?
Yeah, yeah.
So I know that you said that music can access a lot of different spaces in our brain and
make it easier for us, but are there types of disabilities or conditions that benefit
more from music therapy or is it just anyone can benefit?
I would say there are areas that are more researched and so we know more about it, but
I have never seen music therapy not have an effect on a certain population, but there
are definitely different populations that are more researched.
I just haven't seen it where it hasn't helped someone in that population.
You know, like it might not help individual people, like someone, you know, not everyone
is appropriate for music therapy, but I haven't seen a whole population, like no one benefit
from it.
Right, because everyone's different.
Yeah.
What, very broadly and generalized, what might a session look like for that?
We always start with a hello song or a hello activity and then just to get it started,
you know, saying like now we're starting and then, you know, depending on the length of
the session, we'll do some different interventions, we'll recreate music, improvise, you know,
maybe move to music, write songs, listen to songs, analyze the words of songs, and then,
you know, we give a closing, a goodbye song or a closing activity.
Some examples of interventions that I do with the kids I work with, we work on social emotional
goals and, you know, in the autistic community, there's a lot of concrete thinking rather
than flexible thinking where they have one way of like, this is the way it is and they
have a hard time taking on the perspective of another way of thinking.
And so I'll hand them an instrument and I'll say, play this in an angry way.
And they say instruments can't be angry.
They can't be angry.
It's just an instrument.
I'm like, well, if you just had to imagine, imagine that this instrument was angry, what
would it sound like?
And so that helps increase their flexible thinking where they have to think kind of
outside the box and think, oh, well, maybe this can be angry or it can be happy or whatever.
And then, you know, we'll do that.
And then we'll write a song.
And I always go with the five like main, you know, senses.
I'm like, anger sounds like anger, smells like anger, tastes like all those different
things.
And it's increasing that flexible thinking because they're like, anger doesn't taste
like anything.
And I say, imagine that anger was a taste.
What's a taste that you really, really don't like that makes you angry?
And then they'll tell me.
And so then we'll put that into a song and then we use GarageBand to make up the background
music of the song.
And so it's getting, it's increasing their flexible thinking with all that different,
those different things, and then also increasing their understanding of emotions.
A lot of, you know, kids with autism or a lot of adults with autism, it doesn't matter.
They have empathy, but they have a lower cognitive empathy where they like feel what the other
person's feeling, but they don't understand what that feeling means.
And so my goal for them is to feel it and then understand what it means so they don't
get frustrated or in distress and they're like, what am I feeling?
I don't know what I'm feeling.
And then they can put a name to it.
And then we talk about coping skills.
So if you're angry, if you're feeling that anger, then we can identify it and then get
some coping skills to help with that.
So you can go to calm.
So that's just one example.
That process would take, you know, several months to go through the different emotions,
but that's just an example of what I might do with someone.
And that's such a unique perspective that I never would have thought to take before
because when I think of social emotional learning, I'm thinking of those little spot books like
the happy spot or maybe watching a video, Daniel Tiger's neighborhood.
I'm not thinking of the other ways that I could have, that could be applicable to help
assist.
Any myths or misconceptions about neurologic music therapy?
Yeah, I would just say that it works for, it works the first time.
It works for everyone.
There's no effort that you have to put into it.
It's just like this magic pill that's going, that's gonna cure the person.
And I will say there are miraculous things that happen with music therapy, but it does
take work.
It does take sessions.
You know, you have to go for a while.
It's not just gonna be a cure all for everything that's ailing you.
But then on the flip side of that, some people just think of it as a fun therapy that's not
going to improve anything for you.
And so it is a fun therapy.
My goal is to make it so that people don't feel like they're in therapy.
But the opposite side of that is it's going to help you.
We're going to accomplish the goals.
It's going to take time though, you know?
So I have a lot of, not a lot, but I have parents who are like, this is taking so long.
They're not changing fast enough.
And I'm like, well, their brain is working really hard to do the things that they need
to do.
And so, you know, progress takes time.
And I would just tell people who are in music therapy, don't give up.
As long as you're seeing progress, just keep going.
But I think that's the main myth is that either it's not going to work at all and it's just
a fun therapy or the other side, it's going to work overnight and then I'm going to be
cured.
And like, if you're non-speaking, all of a sudden you're going to be able to speak like
overnight and that it doesn't work like that.
There's no practicing of an instrument at home or anything, right?
Because before I've spoken with someone about music therapy and they said to me, oh, I just
don't have time right now to learn or practice an instrument.
And I said, while I'm not an expert, I don't know if that's what that is.
Yeah, that's not what it is.
We definitely do lessons if appropriate.
So if a kid is working on motor skills, for example, then we might do piano lessons to
work on, you know, the fine motor skills and they'll need to practice.
But if they, it's like any other therapy, you know, like sometimes you have homework
from like occupational therapy or speech therapy that you have to practice what you're doing.
But I would say it's just like that.
It's not like you have to practice for 30 minutes a day in order to be in music therapy.
It's for the most part, I don't do lessons like that.
It's only if appropriate.
And we use the piano, but most of the time I'm not doing like lessons, like traditional
lessons.
We're just using it to increase like motor functionality or attention skills or something
like that.
Or as a way to express themselves when they can't use words, they could use music to express
themselves.
But yeah, it's not, you don't have to do like a daily time commitment to music therapy.
Well, that's good to know.
Do you have any success stories or instances where you've seen it make a significant impact
on a child that you've helped?
Yes.
So my favorite memory of my practice thus far is this kid came to me, he was seven years
old and I really believe in getting the child's buy-in for therapy.
So I asked him, I said, what do you want to work on?
Why are you here?
And he said, I just want a friend.
I have no friends at school.
I just want a friend.
And so we did the social emotional learning with the instruments and you know, like everything
that I explained before.
And then we talked about different social skills and you know, wrote songs about them,
practice them.
We talked about sarcasm.
We talked about how to know if someone wants you to come into a group and talk to them
without verbally saying that, or maybe it's not the right time to talk to them.
So we talked about all those different social skills and then we put them in songs and we
didn't practice instruments.
We improvised on instruments.
We used art, all that different stuff.
And the best moment was a few months later he came to me and he's like, I have a best
friend.
I made a friend at school.
And yes, I cried that day because it was amazing.
Oh, that's beautiful.
What a huge impact on his life.
Yeah.
And now that was like 10 years ago and I just found out that he's like going to college
by himself and he's going to become like, I don't know, he wanted to be like a neurosurgeon
back in the day.
I don't know if he's going to college for that, but I'm just so excited that he's like
independent, living life.
I heard that like he, you know, socially he's doing well and like, I don't know, it just
made me really happy.
Wow.
That, that's hugely impactful.
Yeah.
Where are you?
This is a two part question.
Where can parents go to find out more about this service?
And are you currently accepting new clients or is there a wait list?
You can go to Boise Music Therapy Company dot com on the web.
And then we also have Instagram Boise Music Therapy Company and you can find us there.
I post lots of stuff about all different things and we are accepting clients right now.
I have a team.
I have about three music therapists on staff and so we just hired a music therapist and
she has availability right now.
Nice.
What perfect timing.
I know.
I love it.
I will also have the link to your website and your Instagram link down below in this
description for anyone who wants to search it that way.
I also have heard that in your spare time, you're also a positive discipline parent educator.
Yes.
Would you mind starting by explaining what positive discipline is, what your role is
and how that might differ from other parenting approaches?
Yes.
So positive discipline is all about positive parenting strategies.
So not using punishment, not using traditional forms of parenting because research has shown
that punishment does not work long term.
If you want your child to have better behavior, then positive reinforcement is better than
punishment long term.
You know, punishment might work in the moment, but if you want to not constantly be intervening,
then you want to use positive parenting strategies.
So I've taken positive discipline and they've really focused on connection with your child
and building that relationship while also having your child have the behavior that you
want to see.
And I've adapted it to neurodivergent families.
So I have a program where it's a three-pronged approach.
We talk about positive discipline strategies.
We talk about what neurodivergence means.
You know, what are the characteristics of someone who's neurodivergent?
What might their behavior mean coming from a neurodivergent perspective?
And then we also talk about how to maintain your own self-regulation as a parent so that
you can help your child self-regulate too.
And that is in an eight-week program that I have.
It's online.
And then we also have a program where you meet with me and a group of parents twice
a month and you can come ask your questions, you know, if you need specific interventions
for you instead of just, you know, the general teaching that I do, you can come and ask questions
and then also get advice from other parents because I truly believe that other parents,
you know, they have the answers.
They might not have like the training, you know, that professionals have, but they're
living it.
They're in the trenches living it.
So they definitely have good advice on how to help your child.
And is it safe to say that we can find more about how to enroll in that program or cost
and availability on your website?
Yes.
Everybrainisdifferent.com has a specific parenting information, but there's a link for it on
Boise Music Therapy Company.
Okay, perfect.
I don't want you to give everything away, but I was curious if you could share maybe
a first step.
If someone was really serious about kind of looking into that positive discipline and
joining you in that journey with other parents, what is something they could maybe start doing
today that would kind of get them in the mindset to be receptive to that?
I would say get curious, not furious.
And that I did not come up with that.
That was Dr. Matt Sikoreski.
He was on the podcast.
Yes, he was on the podcast.
But I would look at your child's behavior and see why they're doing what they're doing
because they might be doing something and you're thinking, man, they're just doing it
just to bug me.
And they're not doing it just to bug you.
There is a reason why they're doing that behavior and they're getting something out of it.
It might be they want more of a connection with you.
And so they're going to do anything to get your attention, whether that's good, whether
that's bad.
They're just going to do whatever gets your attention the most because they're seeking
that connection with you.
It might be sensory.
They might walk into a store and have a meltdown because the lights are flickering or it's
too hot or it's too loud or whatever.
So just looking at the behavior and looking what's surrounding it and then finding the
root cause of the behavior.
But I really like what Dr. Sikoreski says about getting curious, not furious.
I think that that is also hard in the sense that in order to be a good steward of positive
discipline, right, you have to be in control of your own emotions, right?
Because a well regulated adult is the only thing that can regulate a child.
What advice or what would you say to someone who feels overwhelmed or unsure about their
own abilities to actually implement positive discipline with fidelity even?
I would say don't expect to be perfect.
I mean, I have all the training.
I've taken all the training.
I'm trying to practice it and I still yell at my kids sometimes.
You know, like I still like reach that point of I'm going to lose it.
And so don't expect perfection, but just take a pause before you're going to react, before
you start yelling, before you start doing anything.
Just take a pause for five seconds.
And if you need to excuse yourself so you can have more time, then just say, I will
be back.
You know, if it's safe for your child, obviously say, I need to take a break.
I am going to go in the other room for a minute.
I will be back.
And just give yourself that space to do that.
I mean, even that in itself, right, is a teachable moment because then the child sees the appropriate
way to handle a big emotion, right?
Oh, well, my mom just goes and she takes a little break.
Maybe I'll try that.
Yeah, it's a win-win.
Yeah.
I would really love it if you would tell us a little bit about your podcast, how long
you've been doing it, your co-host and what parents can expect to find there.
We've been doing the podcast for about a year and a half.
We relaunched it in September of 2023.
And so we have episodes before that, but then we relaunched it in that time.
And so we have guests that talk about all different things.
So occupational therapists, speech therapists, you know, we just had a guest on that talks
about simplifying language.
If your child is not following directions, like maybe you're making things too complicated.
And then my co-host is Lauren Ross.
She is an advocate for neurodivergent individuals.
She works in the field and she co-hosts with me.
So we do solo episodes and then we are also starting to coach parents on the podcast.
And so if anyone would like to be coached, they can, you know, send us an email.
We just, you know, take people's questions and then help them find answers to what their
problem is.
Oh, so is it like brainstorming in real time?
Yeah, brainstorming in real time.
That's a great, that's a great way to explain it.
My favorite episode, we were fortunate enough to have Dr. Temple Grandin come on the podcast.
And so that was a phenomenal episode.
If people want to check that out.
Oh, I have to go and listen to that.
Was that recently or?
It was released in October.
October.
Okay.
Perfect.
You also have hosted something called a Neurodiversity in Harmony Summit.
Am I saying that correctly?
Yes.
Is that something you've done in the past?
Do you anticipate doing that again?
Because from what I was reading online, it sounded like it was pretty jam packed with
lots of really functional hands-on practical information.
Yes.
We had our first summit in September and we're hosting another one in March, March 7th.
And we had, I can't even remember, like 16 different panelists come.
We had 15 panelists and then a keynote speaker.
And the way it works is each panelist gets about five minutes to speak and then they
host a breakout room where you can go and ask questions to them.
So you get time with the panelists to get your questions answered so you can brainstorm
again.
And then they also record 20-minute trainings that are in our membership portal.
But if you register for the summit, then you don't have to pay to get in the membership
portal.
Like you just get the trainings.
And so each panelist has a 20-minute training that you can watch before or after the summit.
And then they also present live and host the breakout room.
And so we're doing that again.
And we do, the plan is to do it every March and every September.
Okay.
And if you attend one, is it kind of the same series of information for the next one or
is each summit, are they all a little bit different in terms of the theme?
Yeah.
Each summit will have different panelists, different speakers, and just different information
for parents.
The goal of the summit is for parents to walk away with, like you said, functional strategies
that they can use and then just get more positive parenting strategies that they can use.
Well, I guess my last question is, is there anything you don't do?
Well, I do.
I have a team, so I don't do everything by myself.
You have the luck of a great leader.
Yeah.
Giving it to the team first.
Yes.
So yeah, we do music therapy, behavioral therapy, and parent consulting and the podcast.
So.
Well, Samantha, thank you so much for your time.
I will definitely be putting all of the links in the podcast description.
I'll also be linking to your podcast, Every Brain is Different.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much, everyone out there for listening in and know that if you are in Idaho
or planning on moving to Idaho and have questions on systems or services for children with disabilities,
please consider reaching out to us on our website at iPullIdaho.org or by calling us
at 208-342-5884.
Be sure to tune in next time.
Until then, this has been Unlimited Parenting.
Thanks for listening.