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Hello everyone and welcome back to Unlimited Parenting.

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Today we are very excited to have an incredible guest with us, the Samantha Foote.

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Samantha is a neurodivergent mom to three neurodivergent children.

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She is a board certified neurologic music therapy fellow, founder of Boise Music Therapy

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Company and host of the Every Brain is Different podcast.

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So whether you're a parent, a caregiver, or you're just curious about the incredible impact

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of music on the brain, you happen to be in the right spot.

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So let's dive in.

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Welcome, Samantha.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for having me on the show.

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Yes, thank you for being here.

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Can I start by asking what got you interested in doing all of the stuff and the things?

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Pediatrics, music therapy, what was the inspiration for that?

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Yes.

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So when I was four years old, I started piano lessons and that grew my love of music.

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And when I was a junior in high school, I was like, I have to know what I'm studying

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in college.

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And I wanted to do something with music and I want to do something with psychology, but

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I did not know what that could possibly be.

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And so I was looking on this college review site and it mentioned music therapy, which

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looking back on it, it did not describe music therapy well at all.

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It was horrible, but it got me into the field where I could use music functionally because

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I did not want to be a performer.

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I didn't want to be a teacher.

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I wanted to use music functionally to help people.

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And that's what music therapy does.

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It uses music to accomplish non-musical goals.

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So we work with communication skills, motor skills, cognitive, social, emotional, all

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those different things.

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You can use music to work on them.

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And then I got really interested in working with the autistic population.

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And so I started my practice and I work with kids who are neurodivergent.

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I also work with adults, but yeah, that's where that started from.

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Yeah.

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Can you explain the difference between neurologic music therapy and then how that differs from

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a more traditional music therapy approach?

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Is there a difference?

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I think the neurologic music therapy is just the approach that I'm using or there's like

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behavioral, humanistic, different, there's many different approaches to music therapy

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and I just use neurologic music therapy and none of them are right.

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None of them are wrong.

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It's just a different approach.

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And so neurologic music therapy is really based in research and how music affects the brain

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and how we can use music functionally to change something that someone's doing.

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So to change neural pathways in the brain.

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So when we do music therapy, it's actually changing neural pathways in your brain to

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do new things that you couldn't do before.

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A really good example and a really dramatic example of this that got a lot of media attention

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was the story of Gabby Giffords, who was a congresswoman who had a traumatic brain injury.

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She had speech therapy, occupational therapy, physical therapy, all the therapies, and also

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she had music therapy and so they used neurologic music therapy with her.

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They were able to help her speak.

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They were able to help her sing before she could speak and then that created the new

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neural pathways in her brain to help her speak because the part of her brain that was damaged

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was the part that produces speech and all of that.

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And so music accesses more of the brain than any other stimulus.

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So it was able to access a different part of her brain and then create that pathway

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where she could speak again.

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That's amazing.

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Yeah, it's so cool.

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Yeah, that's the story that goes on the pamphlet, right?

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Yeah, yeah.

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So I know that you said that music can access a lot of different spaces in our brain and

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make it easier for us, but are there types of disabilities or conditions that benefit

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more from music therapy or is it just anyone can benefit?

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I would say there are areas that are more researched and so we know more about it, but

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I have never seen music therapy not have an effect on a certain population, but there

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are definitely different populations that are more researched.

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I just haven't seen it where it hasn't helped someone in that population.

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You know, like it might not help individual people, like someone, you know, not everyone

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is appropriate for music therapy, but I haven't seen a whole population, like no one benefit

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from it.

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Right, because everyone's different.

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Yeah.

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What, very broadly and generalized, what might a session look like for that?

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We always start with a hello song or a hello activity and then just to get it started,

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you know, saying like now we're starting and then, you know, depending on the length of

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the session, we'll do some different interventions, we'll recreate music, improvise, you know,

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maybe move to music, write songs, listen to songs, analyze the words of songs, and then,

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you know, we give a closing, a goodbye song or a closing activity.

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Some examples of interventions that I do with the kids I work with, we work on social emotional

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goals and, you know, in the autistic community, there's a lot of concrete thinking rather

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than flexible thinking where they have one way of like, this is the way it is and they

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have a hard time taking on the perspective of another way of thinking.

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And so I'll hand them an instrument and I'll say, play this in an angry way.

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And they say instruments can't be angry.

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They can't be angry.

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It's just an instrument.

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I'm like, well, if you just had to imagine, imagine that this instrument was angry, what

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would it sound like?

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And so that helps increase their flexible thinking where they have to think kind of

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outside the box and think, oh, well, maybe this can be angry or it can be happy or whatever.

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And then, you know, we'll do that.

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And then we'll write a song.

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And I always go with the five like main, you know, senses.

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I'm like, anger sounds like anger, smells like anger, tastes like all those different

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things.

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And it's increasing that flexible thinking because they're like, anger doesn't taste

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like anything.

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And I say, imagine that anger was a taste.

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What's a taste that you really, really don't like that makes you angry?

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And then they'll tell me.

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And so then we'll put that into a song and then we use GarageBand to make up the background

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music of the song.

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And so it's getting, it's increasing their flexible thinking with all that different,

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those different things, and then also increasing their understanding of emotions.

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A lot of, you know, kids with autism or a lot of adults with autism, it doesn't matter.

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They have empathy, but they have a lower cognitive empathy where they like feel what the other

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person's feeling, but they don't understand what that feeling means.

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And so my goal for them is to feel it and then understand what it means so they don't

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get frustrated or in distress and they're like, what am I feeling?

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I don't know what I'm feeling.

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And then they can put a name to it.

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And then we talk about coping skills.

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So if you're angry, if you're feeling that anger, then we can identify it and then get

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some coping skills to help with that.

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So you can go to calm.

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So that's just one example.

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That process would take, you know, several months to go through the different emotions,

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but that's just an example of what I might do with someone.

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And that's such a unique perspective that I never would have thought to take before

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because when I think of social emotional learning, I'm thinking of those little spot books like

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the happy spot or maybe watching a video, Daniel Tiger's neighborhood.

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I'm not thinking of the other ways that I could have, that could be applicable to help

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assist.

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Any myths or misconceptions about neurologic music therapy?

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Yeah, I would just say that it works for, it works the first time.

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It works for everyone.

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There's no effort that you have to put into it.

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It's just like this magic pill that's going, that's gonna cure the person.

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And I will say there are miraculous things that happen with music therapy, but it does

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take work.

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It does take sessions.

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You know, you have to go for a while.

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It's not just gonna be a cure all for everything that's ailing you.

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But then on the flip side of that, some people just think of it as a fun therapy that's not

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going to improve anything for you.

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And so it is a fun therapy.

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My goal is to make it so that people don't feel like they're in therapy.

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But the opposite side of that is it's going to help you.

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We're going to accomplish the goals.

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It's going to take time though, you know?

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So I have a lot of, not a lot, but I have parents who are like, this is taking so long.

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They're not changing fast enough.

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And I'm like, well, their brain is working really hard to do the things that they need

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to do.

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And so, you know, progress takes time.

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And I would just tell people who are in music therapy, don't give up.

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As long as you're seeing progress, just keep going.

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But I think that's the main myth is that either it's not going to work at all and it's just

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a fun therapy or the other side, it's going to work overnight and then I'm going to be

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cured.

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And like, if you're non-speaking, all of a sudden you're going to be able to speak like

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overnight and that it doesn't work like that.

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There's no practicing of an instrument at home or anything, right?

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Because before I've spoken with someone about music therapy and they said to me, oh, I just

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don't have time right now to learn or practice an instrument.

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And I said, while I'm not an expert, I don't know if that's what that is.

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Yeah, that's not what it is.

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We definitely do lessons if appropriate.

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So if a kid is working on motor skills, for example, then we might do piano lessons to

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work on, you know, the fine motor skills and they'll need to practice.

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But if they, it's like any other therapy, you know, like sometimes you have homework

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from like occupational therapy or speech therapy that you have to practice what you're doing.

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But I would say it's just like that.

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It's not like you have to practice for 30 minutes a day in order to be in music therapy.

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It's for the most part, I don't do lessons like that.

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It's only if appropriate.

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And we use the piano, but most of the time I'm not doing like lessons, like traditional

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lessons.

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We're just using it to increase like motor functionality or attention skills or something

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like that.

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Or as a way to express themselves when they can't use words, they could use music to express

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themselves.

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But yeah, it's not, you don't have to do like a daily time commitment to music therapy.

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Well, that's good to know.

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Do you have any success stories or instances where you've seen it make a significant impact

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on a child that you've helped?

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Yes.

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So my favorite memory of my practice thus far is this kid came to me, he was seven years

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old and I really believe in getting the child's buy-in for therapy.

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So I asked him, I said, what do you want to work on?

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Why are you here?

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And he said, I just want a friend.

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I have no friends at school.

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I just want a friend.

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And so we did the social emotional learning with the instruments and you know, like everything

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that I explained before.

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And then we talked about different social skills and you know, wrote songs about them,

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practice them.

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We talked about sarcasm.

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We talked about how to know if someone wants you to come into a group and talk to them

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without verbally saying that, or maybe it's not the right time to talk to them.

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So we talked about all those different social skills and then we put them in songs and we

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didn't practice instruments.

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We improvised on instruments.

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We used art, all that different stuff.

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And the best moment was a few months later he came to me and he's like, I have a best

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friend.

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I made a friend at school.

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And yes, I cried that day because it was amazing.

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Oh, that's beautiful.

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What a huge impact on his life.

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Yeah.

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And now that was like 10 years ago and I just found out that he's like going to college

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by himself and he's going to become like, I don't know, he wanted to be like a neurosurgeon

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back in the day.

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I don't know if he's going to college for that, but I'm just so excited that he's like

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independent, living life.

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I heard that like he, you know, socially he's doing well and like, I don't know, it just

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made me really happy.

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Wow.

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That, that's hugely impactful.

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Yeah.

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Where are you?

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This is a two part question.

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Where can parents go to find out more about this service?

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And are you currently accepting new clients or is there a wait list?

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You can go to Boise Music Therapy Company dot com on the web.

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And then we also have Instagram Boise Music Therapy Company and you can find us there.

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I post lots of stuff about all different things and we are accepting clients right now.

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I have a team.

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I have about three music therapists on staff and so we just hired a music therapist and

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she has availability right now.

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Nice.

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What perfect timing.

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I know.

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I love it.

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I will also have the link to your website and your Instagram link down below in this

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description for anyone who wants to search it that way.

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I also have heard that in your spare time, you're also a positive discipline parent educator.

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Yes.

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Would you mind starting by explaining what positive discipline is, what your role is

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and how that might differ from other parenting approaches?

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Yes.

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So positive discipline is all about positive parenting strategies.

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So not using punishment, not using traditional forms of parenting because research has shown

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that punishment does not work long term.

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If you want your child to have better behavior, then positive reinforcement is better than

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punishment long term.

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You know, punishment might work in the moment, but if you want to not constantly be intervening,

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then you want to use positive parenting strategies.

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So I've taken positive discipline and they've really focused on connection with your child

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and building that relationship while also having your child have the behavior that you

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want to see.

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And I've adapted it to neurodivergent families.

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So I have a program where it's a three-pronged approach.

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We talk about positive discipline strategies.

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We talk about what neurodivergence means.

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You know, what are the characteristics of someone who's neurodivergent?

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What might their behavior mean coming from a neurodivergent perspective?

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And then we also talk about how to maintain your own self-regulation as a parent so that

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you can help your child self-regulate too.

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And that is in an eight-week program that I have.

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It's online.

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And then we also have a program where you meet with me and a group of parents twice

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a month and you can come ask your questions, you know, if you need specific interventions

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for you instead of just, you know, the general teaching that I do, you can come and ask questions

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and then also get advice from other parents because I truly believe that other parents,

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you know, they have the answers.

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They might not have like the training, you know, that professionals have, but they're

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living it.

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They're in the trenches living it.

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So they definitely have good advice on how to help your child.

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And is it safe to say that we can find more about how to enroll in that program or cost

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and availability on your website?

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Yes.

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Everybrainisdifferent.com has a specific parenting information, but there's a link for it on

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Boise Music Therapy Company.

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Okay, perfect.

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I don't want you to give everything away, but I was curious if you could share maybe

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a first step.

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If someone was really serious about kind of looking into that positive discipline and

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joining you in that journey with other parents, what is something they could maybe start doing

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today that would kind of get them in the mindset to be receptive to that?

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I would say get curious, not furious.

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And that I did not come up with that.

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That was Dr. Matt Sikoreski.

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He was on the podcast.

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Yes, he was on the podcast.

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But I would look at your child's behavior and see why they're doing what they're doing

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because they might be doing something and you're thinking, man, they're just doing it

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just to bug me.

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And they're not doing it just to bug you.

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There is a reason why they're doing that behavior and they're getting something out of it.

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It might be they want more of a connection with you.

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And so they're going to do anything to get your attention, whether that's good, whether

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that's bad.

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They're just going to do whatever gets your attention the most because they're seeking

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that connection with you.

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It might be sensory.

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They might walk into a store and have a meltdown because the lights are flickering or it's

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too hot or it's too loud or whatever.

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So just looking at the behavior and looking what's surrounding it and then finding the

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root cause of the behavior.

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But I really like what Dr. Sikoreski says about getting curious, not furious.

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I think that that is also hard in the sense that in order to be a good steward of positive

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discipline, right, you have to be in control of your own emotions, right?

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Because a well regulated adult is the only thing that can regulate a child.

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What advice or what would you say to someone who feels overwhelmed or unsure about their

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own abilities to actually implement positive discipline with fidelity even?

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I would say don't expect to be perfect.

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I mean, I have all the training.

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I've taken all the training.

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I'm trying to practice it and I still yell at my kids sometimes.

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You know, like I still like reach that point of I'm going to lose it.

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And so don't expect perfection, but just take a pause before you're going to react, before

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you start yelling, before you start doing anything.

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Just take a pause for five seconds.

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And if you need to excuse yourself so you can have more time, then just say, I will

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be back.

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You know, if it's safe for your child, obviously say, I need to take a break.

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I am going to go in the other room for a minute.

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I will be back.

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And just give yourself that space to do that.

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I mean, even that in itself, right, is a teachable moment because then the child sees the appropriate

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way to handle a big emotion, right?

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Oh, well, my mom just goes and she takes a little break.

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Maybe I'll try that.

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Yeah, it's a win-win.

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Yeah.

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I would really love it if you would tell us a little bit about your podcast, how long

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you've been doing it, your co-host and what parents can expect to find there.

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We've been doing the podcast for about a year and a half.

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We relaunched it in September of 2023.

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And so we have episodes before that, but then we relaunched it in that time.

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And so we have guests that talk about all different things.

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So occupational therapists, speech therapists, you know, we just had a guest on that talks

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about simplifying language.

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If your child is not following directions, like maybe you're making things too complicated.

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And then my co-host is Lauren Ross.

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She is an advocate for neurodivergent individuals.

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She works in the field and she co-hosts with me.

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So we do solo episodes and then we are also starting to coach parents on the podcast.

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And so if anyone would like to be coached, they can, you know, send us an email.

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We just, you know, take people's questions and then help them find answers to what their

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problem is.

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Oh, so is it like brainstorming in real time?

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Yeah, brainstorming in real time.

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That's a great, that's a great way to explain it.

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My favorite episode, we were fortunate enough to have Dr. Temple Grandin come on the podcast.

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And so that was a phenomenal episode.

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If people want to check that out.

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Oh, I have to go and listen to that.

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Was that recently or?

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It was released in October.

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October.

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Okay.

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Perfect.

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You also have hosted something called a Neurodiversity in Harmony Summit.

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Am I saying that correctly?

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Yes.

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Is that something you've done in the past?

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Do you anticipate doing that again?

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Because from what I was reading online, it sounded like it was pretty jam packed with

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lots of really functional hands-on practical information.

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Yes.

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We had our first summit in September and we're hosting another one in March, March 7th.

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And we had, I can't even remember, like 16 different panelists come.

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We had 15 panelists and then a keynote speaker.

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And the way it works is each panelist gets about five minutes to speak and then they

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host a breakout room where you can go and ask questions to them.

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So you get time with the panelists to get your questions answered so you can brainstorm

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again.

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And then they also record 20-minute trainings that are in our membership portal.

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But if you register for the summit, then you don't have to pay to get in the membership

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portal.

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Like you just get the trainings.

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And so each panelist has a 20-minute training that you can watch before or after the summit.

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And then they also present live and host the breakout room.

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And so we're doing that again.

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And we do, the plan is to do it every March and every September.

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Okay.

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And if you attend one, is it kind of the same series of information for the next one or

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is each summit, are they all a little bit different in terms of the theme?

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Yeah.

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Each summit will have different panelists, different speakers, and just different information

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for parents.

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The goal of the summit is for parents to walk away with, like you said, functional strategies

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that they can use and then just get more positive parenting strategies that they can use.

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Well, I guess my last question is, is there anything you don't do?

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Well, I do.

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I have a team, so I don't do everything by myself.

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You have the luck of a great leader.

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Yeah.

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Giving it to the team first.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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So yeah, we do music therapy, behavioral therapy, and parent consulting and the podcast.

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So.

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Well, Samantha, thank you so much for your time.

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I will definitely be putting all of the links in the podcast description.

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I'll also be linking to your podcast, Every Brain is Different.

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Yeah.

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Thank you.

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Thank you so much.

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Thank you so much, everyone out there for listening in and know that if you are in Idaho

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or planning on moving to Idaho and have questions on systems or services for children with disabilities,

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please consider reaching out to us on our website at iPullIdaho.org or by calling us

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at 208-342-5884.

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Be sure to tune in next time.

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Until then, this has been Unlimited Parenting.

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Thanks for listening.