1
00:00:07,382 --> 00:00:08,591
Welcome to Darknet.

2
00:00:08,591 --> 00:00:09,801
Demystified.

3
00:00:09,801 --> 00:00:10,927
My name is Sam Bem.

4
00:00:10,927 --> 00:00:13,513
I'm a former Darknet
vendor and market admin.

5
00:00:13,972 --> 00:00:17,475
Now I'm a content creator,
author, hacker, and paralegal.

6
00:00:18,393 --> 00:00:21,813
On this show,
I dive into topics related to the Darknet.

7
00:00:22,772 --> 00:00:27,193
If you're interested in evaluating
your security by looking at a case

8
00:00:27,193 --> 00:00:31,364
in which an individual went against
the federal governments of the world,

9
00:00:32,115 --> 00:00:34,409
then you're in the right place.

10
00:00:34,409 --> 00:00:37,871
By looking at Darknet vendors
and how they ran their business

11
00:00:37,871 --> 00:00:41,082
along with their mistakes,
we can see how they operate

12
00:00:41,082 --> 00:00:45,545
inside of highly hostile environments
with adversaries

13
00:00:45,628 --> 00:00:49,799
who have black or unlimited budgets
to catch them.

14
00:00:51,593 --> 00:00:53,678
In this episode,

15
00:00:53,678 --> 00:00:57,140
we're going to veer off a little bit,
and instead of looking

16
00:00:57,140 --> 00:01:01,478
at a different Darknet vendor,
we're going to be looking at my case

17
00:01:03,188 --> 00:01:05,732
in August of

18
00:01:06,232 --> 00:01:09,903
maybe it was a little bit
after that of 2022.

19
00:01:09,944 --> 00:01:13,865
I did an interview
and it just recently was published

20
00:01:13,865 --> 00:01:18,286
and now because it was published, I'm
putting out this full interview,

21
00:01:18,995 --> 00:01:23,249
which is the actual
almost three hour interview,

22
00:01:23,249 --> 00:01:27,253
not the one there were shown,
which was just an hour.

23
00:01:28,004 --> 00:01:33,468
So the one thing I don't do in this,
which is pretty typical of me

24
00:01:33,468 --> 00:01:37,472
on this podcast post, is to point out or,
you know, share this video.

25
00:01:37,597 --> 00:01:39,641
This vendor, did

26
00:01:39,641 --> 00:01:41,935
you know this stupid thing?

27
00:01:41,935 --> 00:01:45,522
And my stupid thing was trusting my cousin

28
00:01:45,688 --> 00:01:48,566
and not maintaining

29
00:01:48,775 --> 00:01:51,820
good supervision over her.

30
00:01:51,820 --> 00:01:54,697
So to be fair, you know that was idiotic.

31
00:01:55,406 --> 00:02:00,370
I wanted to make sure that, you know,
I was being as fair as I could be

32
00:02:00,578 --> 00:02:05,083
in evaluation of vendors on this podcast.

33
00:02:05,083 --> 00:02:06,835
So there you have it.

34
00:02:06,835 --> 00:02:10,046
Now that any further ado, I'll present you

35
00:02:10,046 --> 00:02:14,634
with the full recording
of the actual podcast.

36
00:02:18,555 --> 00:02:21,516
And I want a confirmation.

37
00:02:21,766 --> 00:02:25,186
Is it okay to record this call
to put it on the podcast Darknet Diary?

38
00:02:25,436 --> 00:02:29,357
It is okay to record this call
and put it on the podcast Darknet Diaries.

39
00:02:30,316 --> 00:02:33,153
Well, thanks, my lawyers appreciate that.

40
00:02:33,153 --> 00:02:36,281
So I'm assuming your

41
00:02:37,574 --> 00:02:40,243
criminal series is over,
but I do not want to

42
00:02:40,243 --> 00:02:42,912
know about any future things
you may be cooking up

43
00:02:43,329 --> 00:02:45,790
that may be illegal
because it puts me in an awkward spot.

44
00:02:45,957 --> 00:02:47,959
Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

45
00:02:47,959 --> 00:02:48,209
Just.

46
00:02:48,209 --> 00:02:54,007
Just like, even even if I did,
I mentioned something to federally.

47
00:02:54,674 --> 00:02:59,262
You are literally part of a conspiracy
now as you get up to ten years.

48
00:02:59,262 --> 00:03:01,764
So I take it very seriously.

49
00:03:02,348 --> 00:03:06,394
Even like when I was incarcerated,
I would have guys who would walk up to me

50
00:03:06,394 --> 00:03:09,564
and they'd be like, Oh, when I get out,
I'm going to sell coke right this time.

51
00:03:09,606 --> 00:03:11,858
I mean, like, listen, man,
get the fuck away from me. You know, like.

52
00:03:12,483 --> 00:03:14,194
What is wrong with. You, dumb ass?

53
00:03:14,194 --> 00:03:16,654
Like, you're guaranteed to come back.

54
00:03:16,654 --> 00:03:18,698
You gonna look, you know, like.

55
00:03:18,698 --> 00:03:23,578
And because you have guys there
who absolutely take that and,

56
00:03:23,953 --> 00:03:25,955
you know,
bring it to a United States attorney

57
00:03:25,955 --> 00:03:28,958
and they'll snitch on you
while they're in prison.

58
00:03:29,125 --> 00:03:32,921
Dude,
try to get a rule 35 B and get out early.

59
00:03:32,921 --> 00:03:33,421
You know?

60
00:03:34,589 --> 00:03:35,006
So it's

61
00:03:35,006 --> 00:03:38,176
just it's like I don't want to hear
anything about any of that.

62
00:03:38,176 --> 00:03:40,345
So I absolutely understand that.

63
00:03:40,345 --> 00:03:44,849
That's great that you have that
that mindset of, you know,

64
00:03:44,933 --> 00:03:48,603
don't don't try to involve me in
anything because,

65
00:03:48,853 --> 00:03:52,357
you know, federal you know, the feds, man,
they have a 99% conviction rate.

66
00:03:52,357 --> 00:03:55,985
So, you know,
if you get indicted, you're screwed.

67
00:03:55,985 --> 00:03:58,738
Like,
you're going to prison, you know? Right.

68
00:03:58,780 --> 00:04:02,533
Unless you tell on a bunch of people. Yes.

69
00:04:02,867 --> 00:04:05,703
And if you didn't actually do anything,
you have no one to tell on.

70
00:04:08,081 --> 00:04:08,414
All right.

71
00:04:08,414 --> 00:04:10,333
Well,
I'm glad we're on the same page there.

72
00:04:10,333 --> 00:04:13,753
So, yeah, basically what I'll do
is I'll try to ask you questions

73
00:04:13,753 --> 00:04:16,631
like you through your story and then

74
00:04:17,006 --> 00:04:18,424
Yeah, and then I'll put it together.

75
00:04:18,424 --> 00:04:20,260
So it's going to take me
a couple of months to put it together

76
00:04:20,260 --> 00:04:23,137
before you can listen, and then you'll
hear it before it gets published.

77
00:04:23,388 --> 00:04:23,846
That's cool.

78
00:04:23,846 --> 00:04:24,097
Yeah.

79
00:04:24,097 --> 00:04:27,809
So one thing I will tell you,
you can feel free at any point

80
00:04:28,810 --> 00:04:32,230
to tell
me, Hey, man, like, get back on track.

81
00:04:32,230 --> 00:04:34,691
Because one thing you will notice is that

82
00:04:35,984 --> 00:04:37,902
I do deviate

83
00:04:37,902 --> 00:04:42,156
a lot of the times
and that's like because I'm an A.P.

84
00:04:42,156 --> 00:04:46,160
So like, when I'm explaining something,

85
00:04:46,452 --> 00:04:47,870
you know, sometimes there's 20

86
00:04:47,870 --> 00:04:52,583
of the things that created that situation
that I feel need to be addressed

87
00:04:52,625 --> 00:04:56,296
in order to have full comprehension
of a given situation.

88
00:04:56,587 --> 00:04:59,632
And sometimes, you know,
I get lost on that path.

89
00:05:00,675 --> 00:05:04,304
So listen, dude,
like you're way off topic, you know,

90
00:05:04,304 --> 00:05:07,932
like where you know,
you're talking about spaceships and.

91
00:05:08,474 --> 00:05:09,851
You know, like.

92
00:05:10,059 --> 00:05:12,061
All right, I can do that.

93
00:05:12,061 --> 00:05:16,232
Okay,
so let's start out with your name. So.

94
00:05:16,566 --> 00:05:17,859
So what do you want to be known for?

95
00:05:17,859 --> 00:05:21,029
No one has on here as well, because you
may you may want a moniker or something.

96
00:05:21,487 --> 00:05:21,904
Oh, no.

97
00:05:21,904 --> 00:05:25,325
So my name's Sam,
and it's a matter of public record,

98
00:05:25,658 --> 00:05:28,786
also also known as doing Fed Time

99
00:05:29,245 --> 00:05:31,873
Online and Killer B.

100
00:05:32,582 --> 00:05:34,625
There's my hacker alias for a while

101
00:05:35,043 --> 00:05:38,588
and also 1218902,

102
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,716
which is almost like,
you know, talking to Jean Valjean.

103
00:05:41,716 --> 00:05:45,219
But is that that was my Fed number.

104
00:05:45,219 --> 00:05:47,805
So that's I got a couple of aliases.

105
00:05:47,805 --> 00:05:52,435
Oh, so it's it's still a bit
like the Wu-Tang Clan, not your A AB.

106
00:05:52,935 --> 00:05:56,022
Right. Yes. Okay. Got it.

107
00:05:57,607 --> 00:05:59,108
All right. So

108
00:06:00,026 --> 00:06:03,279
we got a Darknet story here.

109
00:06:03,696 --> 00:06:05,198
How did you get exposed to Darknet?

110
00:06:05,198 --> 00:06:07,784
What was your first kind
of experience there?

111
00:06:07,784 --> 00:06:11,412
So I had known
I remember when Silk Road came out

112
00:06:12,163 --> 00:06:16,584
initially, and I remember
when Bitcoin came out, I remember

113
00:06:16,584 --> 00:06:22,882
having the BTC faucet around for a while
and like begging for cheap BTC for us.

114
00:06:22,882 --> 00:06:25,426
It was basically a website
where like you could go

115
00:06:25,426 --> 00:06:28,930
and if you went there every day
you would get, you know, anywhere

116
00:06:28,930 --> 00:06:34,268
from like initially maybe
50 bitcoin to buy bitcoin

117
00:06:34,268 --> 00:06:37,897
or then you know, fractions as it went on,
but you would get that for free.

118
00:06:38,648 --> 00:06:43,027
So like it had this, this exposure
to cryptocurrencies

119
00:06:43,027 --> 00:06:46,781
into the darknet
in general for a long time

120
00:06:47,115 --> 00:06:50,410
because I had been in information
technology

121
00:06:50,910 --> 00:06:54,539
and cybersecurity,
I did a lot of residential work mainly,

122
00:06:54,914 --> 00:06:57,875
but I was always
there was always kind of my thing.

123
00:06:57,875 --> 00:07:00,253
I loved I love computers.

124
00:07:00,670 --> 00:07:01,587
I loved how they work.

125
00:07:01,587 --> 00:07:04,549
Like, you know,
if you read, you know, you hop on Frack

126
00:07:05,466 --> 00:07:10,304
and you read Bankers Manifesto,
you know, whenever I have someone

127
00:07:10,304 --> 00:07:15,184
who's they came in, how do I hack,
you know, the super generic question?

128
00:07:15,184 --> 00:07:18,771
It's like, you know, asking an artist
how they're an artist, right?

129
00:07:19,063 --> 00:07:21,107
It's just so many possibilities.

130
00:07:21,107 --> 00:07:23,234
Like, what medium are you talking about?

131
00:07:23,234 --> 00:07:23,526
You know,

132
00:07:23,526 --> 00:07:26,696
I think for hackers, it's like, you know,
we have like the social engineering.

133
00:07:26,696 --> 00:07:28,948
We have, you know, guys
who are like pickers.

134
00:07:28,948 --> 00:07:32,076
We got guys who, you know,
they're they're coding, you know, a

135
00:07:32,076 --> 00:07:36,038
buffer overflow and a Sam
like they can just incredibly brilliant.

136
00:07:36,038 --> 00:07:37,957
But like, you know,
we have different artists

137
00:07:37,957 --> 00:07:41,294
who do kind of the same thing
in different ways.

138
00:07:41,294 --> 00:07:44,505
So like that age old question of like
how do I hack is like one

139
00:07:44,505 --> 00:07:48,759
that really can't be answered directly
because it depends on who you are.

140
00:07:48,759 --> 00:07:54,098
But going back to your question,
how I learned about it was by osmosis,

141
00:07:54,098 --> 00:07:59,145
because I had already been in the
information technology world, that field.

142
00:07:59,437 --> 00:08:03,691
So when those things came out
and they became like, you know,

143
00:08:03,691 --> 00:08:05,818
common knowledge among those people,

144
00:08:05,818 --> 00:08:08,821
the limited amount of people
who knew about those things existing,

145
00:08:10,114 --> 00:08:10,615
like I learned

146
00:08:10,615 --> 00:08:13,743
about them, like it didn't have to it
didn't have to be on CNN

147
00:08:13,743 --> 00:08:18,706
or Fox News or MSNBC
for for me to pick it up and see it.

148
00:08:18,706 --> 00:08:20,791
But when I remember
when Silk Road, it came out

149
00:08:20,833 --> 00:08:23,085
like I honestly I thought it was a scam.

150
00:08:23,085 --> 00:08:24,128
You know, I thought it was.

151
00:08:24,128 --> 00:08:28,591
And there was a bunch of feds
that ran it and like, it was just a big

152
00:08:29,008 --> 00:08:32,762
you know,
it was just a like a big sting operation.

153
00:08:33,554 --> 00:08:35,806
And then as time went on
and I learned a little bit more about it,

154
00:08:35,806 --> 00:08:38,893
you know, I realized it wasn't
I didn't care

155
00:08:40,561 --> 00:08:43,439
about it at the time
because I had no need for it.

156
00:08:43,439 --> 00:08:47,318
Like I had no ambition to be a Darknet
vendor.

157
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,405
Wasn't like, oh, man, like, I,
I want to do this, you know, in a year

158
00:08:51,405 --> 00:08:56,536
or like it, you know, me becoming a dark
vendor was more something that happened

159
00:08:57,662 --> 00:09:02,708
as a evolutionary
necessity, which is not true.

160
00:09:03,084 --> 00:09:06,546
But in my mind I made true

161
00:09:07,088 --> 00:09:09,215
through like,
you know, so fractionalization,

162
00:09:10,091 --> 00:09:12,885
which I like to think,
you know, each of us has an infinite ocean

163
00:09:13,261 --> 00:09:15,888
of self rationalization to justify

164
00:09:15,888 --> 00:09:18,474
whatever we, we end up doing.

165
00:09:19,183 --> 00:09:23,771
And for me, myself, for rationalization,
for becoming a dark vendor

166
00:09:25,189 --> 00:09:29,068
was to, you know,
get out of a situation that I was in with

167
00:09:30,278 --> 00:09:32,947
a woman that I was with
who was just a nightmare.

168
00:09:32,947 --> 00:09:36,158
I've been with her for ten years,
and we had gotten into an argument

169
00:09:36,534 --> 00:09:40,371
and she basically told me she was like,
I cheated on you seven years ago.

170
00:09:40,663 --> 00:09:44,500
And like because we were arguing
about peas, my daughter got,

171
00:09:44,542 --> 00:09:48,963
like you said, I had two stepdaughters
and a son and I had made them dinner.

172
00:09:48,963 --> 00:09:53,801
And when I had given them dinner, my ex
was like, Oh, you gave her too many peas.

173
00:09:53,801 --> 00:09:55,094
And I was like, I don't think so, know?

174
00:09:55,094 --> 00:09:57,013
And she was like,
you know, and she's like, Oh,

175
00:09:57,013 --> 00:09:59,223
well, you know, you obviously did
look at the play

176
00:09:59,223 --> 00:10:01,559
And I was like, Well,
it says same amount of scoops.

177
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,812
And and she's like, you know,
you're an asshole and I'm a logician.

178
00:10:04,812 --> 00:10:08,107
Like, my personality type is
and so I'm a logician.

179
00:10:08,107 --> 00:10:10,776
So I, you know, I don't really get
emotionally invested in it.

180
00:10:10,776 --> 00:10:12,820
So I was like, you know, I disagree.
I think you're wrong.

181
00:10:13,029 --> 00:10:16,991
It's the same amount of scoops as,
you know, the other kids go, too.

182
00:10:17,366 --> 00:10:20,786
So it really aggravated her
and she ended up,

183
00:10:20,786 --> 00:10:22,330
you know, telling me
about how she cheated on me.

184
00:10:22,330 --> 00:10:26,584
And then she was a super miserable person
for those seven years

185
00:10:26,584 --> 00:10:30,880
because her guilt ate at her
and she would take that out

186
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:32,965
on everyone else
and she would basically never be home.

187
00:10:32,965 --> 00:10:35,676
And when she was,
she was just a nightmare to deal with.

188
00:10:35,676 --> 00:10:39,597
So when she ended up telling me
that I was like, awesome.

189
00:10:39,597 --> 00:10:42,308
Like, this is, you know, my chance to,

190
00:10:43,392 --> 00:10:46,228
you know,
basically tell her to go to hell.

191
00:10:46,228 --> 00:10:48,898
And I use that opportunity
to break up with her

192
00:10:49,357 --> 00:10:53,819
by living in rural Vermont and doing,
like, these small computer jobs.

193
00:10:53,819 --> 00:10:55,905
I definitely didn't make a ton of money.

194
00:10:55,905 --> 00:10:58,908
It was it was a
my own company was called a worldwide

195
00:10:58,908 --> 00:11:02,203
computer consultancy, was a startup.

196
00:11:02,203 --> 00:11:04,121
And just like
I didn't have a ton of money.

197
00:11:04,121 --> 00:11:05,915
So I was like, well, I need to make money.

198
00:11:05,915 --> 00:11:10,503
Like if I want to move out
and I want to have a good house

199
00:11:10,503 --> 00:11:14,757
for my children to live
in, I need, you know, at least 200 grand.

200
00:11:15,841 --> 00:11:18,094
And that was my primary

201
00:11:18,094 --> 00:11:21,555
driving factor
and my motive for, you know, becoming a.

202
00:11:21,555 --> 00:11:23,224
Darknet vendor.

203
00:11:23,349 --> 00:11:24,558
Okay. Wow.

204
00:11:24,558 --> 00:11:26,602
That's really
we splashed right into it. I love it.

205
00:11:29,146 --> 00:11:34,568
So, yeah, we got so much ground to cover.

206
00:11:34,568 --> 00:11:37,863
I'm hesitant to, like,
bring it on sessions, but

207
00:11:38,322 --> 00:11:41,742
I want to go into the future, so
I don't really know where to go, but, um.

208
00:11:42,076 --> 00:11:44,370
Okay. So
I want to just start from the beginning.

209
00:11:44,370 --> 00:11:47,331
No, I think this is the beginning and
I think we're we're already established in

210
00:11:47,331 --> 00:11:50,376
so the the drugs.

211
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,421
How did you get familiar with the drugs?

212
00:11:53,421 --> 00:11:55,756
So prior

213
00:11:55,756 --> 00:11:58,426
to so prior to me being a dark vendor

214
00:11:59,093 --> 00:12:02,263
that goes back into like my history.

215
00:12:02,263 --> 00:12:06,100
So I had, I had been into computers
and I had been into computers

216
00:12:06,100 --> 00:12:09,562
for about 10 to 15 years.

217
00:12:09,562 --> 00:12:11,439
That's how long I had lived in Vermont.

218
00:12:11,439 --> 00:12:14,608
Now, prior to living in Vermont,
I had lived in Rhode Island

219
00:12:15,192 --> 00:12:17,862
and prior to living in Rhode Island,
I lived in Massachusetts.

220
00:12:18,237 --> 00:12:21,657
So like, you know, most people,
they moved, you know, from these states

221
00:12:23,075 --> 00:12:26,036
for whatever reasons, economic reasons,
job opportunities.

222
00:12:26,036 --> 00:12:26,746
Right.

223
00:12:27,037 --> 00:12:29,081
So I was in Massachusetts.

224
00:12:29,081 --> 00:12:31,333
I call it my first case.

225
00:12:31,333 --> 00:12:33,461
It was assault and battery
with intent to murder.

226
00:12:34,628 --> 00:12:37,423
And it was my first charge.

227
00:12:37,423 --> 00:12:41,969
And I ended up litigating it
for two and a half years

228
00:12:41,969 --> 00:12:44,180
because my lawyer was like,
the longer we litigate it,

229
00:12:44,180 --> 00:12:46,807
you know, the less it looks like,
you know, he gets out of ICU

230
00:12:46,807 --> 00:12:47,850
and he can walk again.

231
00:12:47,850 --> 00:12:51,854
And it's like, you know,
you didn't really do anything to him.

232
00:12:51,854 --> 00:12:54,023
And I was like,
wow, you're incredibly evil.

233
00:12:54,023 --> 00:12:55,274
You know, like, I made it.

234
00:12:55,274 --> 00:12:57,359
I might have, you know,

235
00:12:57,735 --> 00:13:01,030
happy or been to look out and watch
this dude get smashed.

236
00:13:02,531 --> 00:13:04,241
I was the only one
that was covered for the crime.

237
00:13:04,241 --> 00:13:07,620
So I got to conspiracy charges, too,
because that you other guys

238
00:13:07,620 --> 00:13:09,413
that were there, I didn't tell on.

239
00:13:09,413 --> 00:13:12,500
So I ended up getting hit
with conspiracy charges

240
00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:15,836
and two counts of assault
and battery with intent to murder.

241
00:13:17,713 --> 00:13:21,383
But basically what ended up happening was

242
00:13:21,383 --> 00:13:24,345
I would we I litigated that case
for like two and a half years.

243
00:13:24,637 --> 00:13:27,348
I ended up getting the sends to first
they were trying to put me in prison

244
00:13:27,348 --> 00:13:29,141
for ten years in Walpole.

245
00:13:29,141 --> 00:13:32,520
And by the end of the two and a half years
like this guy

246
00:13:32,770 --> 00:13:34,980
had completely healed and

247
00:13:38,025 --> 00:13:41,487
now when I when like the last offer
that we got for going to

248
00:13:41,487 --> 00:13:45,491
pretrial was six months in county jail
with two and a half years suspended.

249
00:13:45,908 --> 00:13:49,537
So I took it and I went to the county jail

250
00:13:49,537 --> 00:13:53,916
in Dartmouth, which is like county jail
for like New Bedford forever.

251
00:13:53,916 --> 00:13:55,334
It's a it's a nightmare.

252
00:13:55,334 --> 00:13:57,294
Like if you look it up,
I think it's responsible

253
00:13:57,294 --> 00:14:01,048
for a quarter of all suicides
in county jails in mass.

254
00:14:01,257 --> 00:14:06,178
It's one of the worst places I've ever
been as far as like a place to do time.

255
00:14:06,554 --> 00:14:10,015
But when I got out, like right
before I got out,

256
00:14:10,015 --> 00:14:11,767
there's supposed to be this big gang war.

257
00:14:11,767 --> 00:14:14,854
So I remember I ended up taking my I.D.

258
00:14:14,854 --> 00:14:17,398
and I used the metal clip on my I.D.

259
00:14:17,439 --> 00:14:19,483
to break apart a razor blade.

260
00:14:19,483 --> 00:14:24,029
And then I cut, like,
a half inch strip of my bedsheet.

261
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:29,827
And then I wound that up, and I rubbed it
against my this plastic box, this big,

262
00:14:29,827 --> 00:14:34,957
you know, one foot by two foot by two foot
plastic box that you're given.

263
00:14:35,165 --> 00:14:39,461
And I cut through it like butter
because I rub this this, you know,

264
00:14:39,461 --> 00:14:43,299
this rope basically, that I had made out
of my bed sheet back and forth again.

265
00:14:43,299 --> 00:14:44,341
Same with that.

266
00:14:44,341 --> 00:14:48,262
I was able to cut out these pieces
and I cut down to six pieces.

267
00:14:48,262 --> 00:14:53,475
And I basically made these six plastic
knives that were, you know, a foot each.

268
00:14:53,767 --> 00:14:58,647
And they were just like, I was like,
you know, I've seen people cut.

269
00:14:58,647 --> 00:15:01,191
I've heard, you know,
gay people raped in their county jail.

270
00:15:01,191 --> 00:15:04,987
So I'm like, you know, I'm
I have a week left in that place.

271
00:15:04,987 --> 00:15:07,364
And I'm like,
you know, I'm not going to become a victim

272
00:15:07,865 --> 00:15:10,534
a week before I get out,
just not going to happen.

273
00:15:10,826 --> 00:15:13,704
So the guy called my case when I was 17.

274
00:15:13,704 --> 00:15:14,622
I got convicted

275
00:15:15,581 --> 00:15:18,167
like two and a half years later.

276
00:15:18,167 --> 00:15:21,211
So when I got out, right before I got out,

277
00:15:21,211 --> 00:15:25,424
I got caught making those knives
like a CEO or past me, seen them,

278
00:15:26,258 --> 00:15:30,804
you know, called SRT, which is basically
like the SWAT for sheriffs.

279
00:15:30,804 --> 00:15:33,015
And they came in, they grabbed me,
they brought me issue.

280
00:15:33,015 --> 00:15:34,725
So they broke issue and they were like,
you know,

281
00:15:34,725 --> 00:15:37,019
sign this paper
that says that you're guilty

282
00:15:37,019 --> 00:15:40,606
of possessing weapons
inside of a correctional institution.

283
00:15:40,898 --> 00:15:43,359
And this was like my second time
going to show.

284
00:15:43,901 --> 00:15:46,528
The first time was for a lighter
because I was a cigaret smoker

285
00:15:47,488 --> 00:15:51,075
and they like, sign this paper
and we'll give you a week.

286
00:15:51,075 --> 00:15:51,951
In SHU.

287
00:15:51,951 --> 00:15:55,037
I had spent over a month in SHU
for a lighter,

288
00:15:55,287 --> 00:15:59,500
so it made no sense
that they would give me a week and then,

289
00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:03,837
you know, you, you figure out, Oh yeah,
I got two and a half years suspended.

290
00:16:04,004 --> 00:16:07,299
So if I sign this paper now,
instead of doing six months

291
00:16:07,758 --> 00:16:12,012
in county jail, I'm going to do
two and a half years in county jail.

292
00:16:12,221 --> 00:16:14,348
So I was like, Yeah, I'm
good. I'm not signing any of them.

293
00:16:14,765 --> 00:16:16,809
So I got out and when I got out,

294
00:16:18,102 --> 00:16:19,770
I had a court date

295
00:16:19,770 --> 00:16:22,815
with my probation officer
and I also had a court date

296
00:16:23,315 --> 00:16:27,695
in New Bedford for destruction of property

297
00:16:27,695 --> 00:16:31,782
and possession of a weapon
inside of a correctional facility.

298
00:16:32,825 --> 00:16:35,077
So when I had gone, now

299
00:16:35,077 --> 00:16:37,663
I had to make the choice
because I'm like taking the bus, you know,

300
00:16:37,663 --> 00:16:39,790
I just got out of county,
so I'm not on my feet.

301
00:16:39,832 --> 00:16:43,419
So I had to make the decision, either
go to court or go to my probation officer.

302
00:16:43,627 --> 00:16:46,714
I elected to go to my probation officer
because he's an officer of the court.

303
00:16:47,131 --> 00:16:48,007
And when I went there,

304
00:16:48,007 --> 00:16:51,427
I was like, listen, I got to you know,
I got a court date at the same time.

305
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,263
And I don't know why he was scheduled
for the same day.

306
00:16:54,638 --> 00:16:56,265
And he was like,
yeah, it's not my problem.

307
00:16:56,265 --> 00:16:59,351
And I was like, Well,
I'm not going to be able to make it to,

308
00:16:59,768 --> 00:17:03,397
you know, New Bedford at nine
because like, I'm standing in his office

309
00:17:04,148 --> 00:17:08,527
and it's 930
because I got there at nine and, you know,

310
00:17:09,278 --> 00:17:10,779
and he was like, Yeah, it's my problem.

311
00:17:10,779 --> 00:17:11,864
I'm going to violate you.

312
00:17:11,864 --> 00:17:14,199
And, you know,
you're going to get two and a half

313
00:17:14,324 --> 00:17:17,828
and he's going to make sure
you go to your next court date.

314
00:17:17,828 --> 00:17:21,457
And, you know, with that,
I was like, Yeah, okay.

315
00:17:21,665 --> 00:17:25,085
And I left and I went home

316
00:17:25,085 --> 00:17:29,131
and I got everything that I could,
you know, reasonably carry.

317
00:17:29,131 --> 00:17:32,676
I got a ride from a friend
and I went to Rhode Island

318
00:17:32,676 --> 00:17:38,599
and I did a little bit of research and
I found out there there is a law in place.

319
00:17:39,016 --> 00:17:41,477
I don't know if it's still in place,
but there was a law in place at the time

320
00:17:41,769 --> 00:17:43,479
that was called the sister state law.

321
00:17:43,479 --> 00:17:46,398
And with the sister state law,
what it said was,

322
00:17:46,774 --> 00:17:49,568
if someone has a warrant

323
00:17:49,568 --> 00:17:52,154
in Massachusetts, it's and it's not for,

324
00:17:52,696 --> 00:17:57,951
you know, murder, rape
or a robbery or something like that, that

325
00:17:59,078 --> 00:18:02,748
no warrant, they they won't extra day you.

326
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,043
So if I'm caught in Rhode Island,
Connecticut or any state

327
00:18:06,043 --> 00:18:09,463
that borders Massachusetts,
if I'm caught in any of these states

328
00:18:10,172 --> 00:18:12,216
or arrested in any of these states,

329
00:18:12,216 --> 00:18:17,513
they will not extradite me back
to Massachusetts because you're so close,

330
00:18:17,805 --> 00:18:21,308
they consider it a waste of time to,
you know, have

331
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:24,186
two sheriffs go all the way out there
to pick you up and bring you back.

332
00:18:24,394 --> 00:18:29,942
Now, that said, I've seen guys
get extradited from Florida to Mass and,

333
00:18:29,983 --> 00:18:33,570
you know, ride in a van for three days
all the way out.

334
00:18:34,154 --> 00:18:37,199
So, like, it's a it can be
it can be definitely be a nightmare.

335
00:18:37,199 --> 00:18:40,202
But I knew about the sister state law, so,

336
00:18:40,786 --> 00:18:43,664
you know, I was like,
I just stay in a state that borders it

337
00:18:43,664 --> 00:18:46,834
and I'll never you know,
I'll never have to deal with this.

338
00:18:47,084 --> 00:18:51,588
And like I said, I got arrested
in Rhode Island for possession of cannabis

339
00:18:52,131 --> 00:18:54,341
and like vandalism charge.

340
00:18:54,716 --> 00:18:57,761
And each time I was pulled over, arrested,
they would run my name

341
00:18:57,761 --> 00:19:00,764
and they'd be like,
Oh, Ben, do you know you have a warrant?

342
00:19:01,181 --> 00:19:03,267
And I would be like, No, I had no idea.

343
00:19:03,725 --> 00:19:06,478
And they'd be like,
Oh, well, you know, you got a warrant.

344
00:19:06,478 --> 00:19:08,230
And I'd be like,
Oh, I'll take care of that.

345
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:11,024
And they'd be like, Very, you know,
get out of here.

346
00:19:11,024 --> 00:19:14,403
Or in this case you go and, you know,
you make going to the ECI,

347
00:19:15,195 --> 00:19:17,990
which is the state prison in Maryland,
because there's no county jail.

348
00:19:19,950 --> 00:19:22,536
So I knew that I had these warrants,

349
00:19:22,536 --> 00:19:25,539
but I also knew that as long as I stayed

350
00:19:26,874 --> 00:19:30,627
in a state that bordered Massachusetts,
that I would never be extradited,

351
00:19:30,711 --> 00:19:33,630
and they'd had this
put to the test on a few occasions.

352
00:19:33,630 --> 00:19:38,051
So I been around for a while,
and like when I lived in

353
00:19:38,051 --> 00:19:42,306
Rhode Island, I saw I had been way over
the statute of limitations at this point.

354
00:19:42,306 --> 00:19:47,728
But I showed coke, you know, powder
cocaine and weed and stuff.

355
00:19:47,728 --> 00:19:50,022
And, you know, I moved up to Vermont

356
00:19:50,022 --> 00:19:52,482
because I was like,
I was tired of doing that kind of stuff

357
00:19:53,859 --> 00:19:56,278
because, like, it's

358
00:19:56,278 --> 00:19:59,406
a rough life, you know, it's no joke.

359
00:19:59,406 --> 00:20:02,326
So I moved up to Vermont
by Mutual Vermont.

360
00:20:02,326 --> 00:20:06,455
I got my high school diploma
through a program called Vesak,

361
00:20:06,830 --> 00:20:10,959
which is pretty awesome
if you're just trying to get your diploma

362
00:20:11,376 --> 00:20:15,505
easily, like you do like six projects
and like one of the projects,

363
00:20:15,505 --> 00:20:18,342
it was like write a 300 word
essay about yourself.

364
00:20:18,550 --> 00:20:20,010
Make two and six.

365
00:20:20,010 --> 00:20:23,597
Of these menial projects,
and I got my high school diploma.

366
00:20:23,889 --> 00:20:27,184
And then from there I continued on
and with my education

367
00:20:27,351 --> 00:20:29,811
when I came up to Vermont,
I couldn't turn a computer on.

368
00:20:29,811 --> 00:20:32,064
Like,
if you really turn this, you know, turn

369
00:20:32,064 --> 00:20:33,815
this computer on,
I wouldn't build generation.

370
00:20:33,815 --> 00:20:35,150
I couldn't reformat one.

371
00:20:35,150 --> 00:20:37,110
I couldn't D for ag hard drive.

372
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:39,112
I couldn't do anything
to do anything about.

373
00:20:40,030 --> 00:20:42,824
So I spent, you know, the next ten years

374
00:20:43,325 --> 00:20:46,995
educating myself
about computers and technology.

375
00:20:46,995 --> 00:20:49,998
And when I started getting into it,

376
00:20:50,165 --> 00:20:55,087
it was just for me,
it was an absolute it was crazy.

377
00:20:55,087 --> 00:20:57,339
It was it was fascinating for me.

378
00:20:57,547 --> 00:21:02,177
The, you know, the abilities that we had,
you know, going online.

379
00:21:02,177 --> 00:21:04,930
It was never really something
that I had spent time doing. So

380
00:21:05,931 --> 00:21:07,015
anyways,

381
00:21:07,015 --> 00:21:09,643
fast forward, you know, 15 years later

382
00:21:10,477 --> 00:21:13,939
and, you know, now I'm, you know, my ex.

383
00:21:14,439 --> 00:21:17,484
I, you know,
I break up with her and I'm like,

384
00:21:17,484 --> 00:21:19,987
you know,
I want to be able to make money quickly.

385
00:21:20,487 --> 00:21:24,199
So, you know, I go when I you know,
I become a dark net vendor.

386
00:21:25,284 --> 00:21:28,662
You remember the first time
you bought off any drugs off the darknet?

387
00:21:29,496 --> 00:21:30,330
Yeah.

388
00:21:30,580 --> 00:21:34,167
So I ended up and they use
an ounce of cannabis that I got.

389
00:21:35,544 --> 00:21:38,255
I ended up getting there
for like 150 bucks.

390
00:21:39,715 --> 00:21:43,218
I want to say
it was the use from Hansa to buy.

391
00:21:43,218 --> 00:21:45,887
I could absolutely be wrong.

392
00:21:47,055 --> 00:21:48,682
But it was like, Yeah.

393
00:21:48,682 --> 00:21:49,808
So for me it was.

394
00:21:49,808 --> 00:21:52,185
It was something that I wanted.

395
00:21:52,185 --> 00:21:56,189
I had wanted to do it since Silk Road,
but like you said, like was silk Road

396
00:21:56,189 --> 00:22:00,402
when it first came out, I just didn't,
I didn't know how legit it was. And

397
00:22:02,195 --> 00:22:02,446
yeah, at

398
00:22:02,446 --> 00:22:06,074
the end of the day, that was one thing
I like when I started, I sure did.

399
00:22:06,366 --> 00:22:08,827
I was like, you know, the best r.o
I am ever going to have

400
00:22:09,161 --> 00:22:11,288
is when I make my own product.

401
00:22:11,496 --> 00:22:16,251
Like, like a manufacturing company
is never going to be beaten in price

402
00:22:16,251 --> 00:22:18,545
point by a retailer,

403
00:22:20,172 --> 00:22:21,173
you know? Yep.

404
00:22:21,173 --> 00:22:23,842
So I'm like,
you know, if I'm the manufacturer

405
00:22:23,925 --> 00:22:26,887
and I'm the retailer,
my ROI will be insane.

406
00:22:27,596 --> 00:22:32,517
So like with my moonshine,
like I could spend 10 to $14

407
00:22:32,684 --> 00:22:36,438
and I could turn that into $100
at a minimum

408
00:22:37,689 --> 00:22:38,774
and like that.

409
00:22:38,774 --> 00:22:43,236
And then if I made apple pie
brandy from that, multiply that by five.

410
00:22:43,445 --> 00:22:47,407
And that was my
my return was like, you know, 500 bucks.

411
00:22:49,117 --> 00:22:49,659
But it

412
00:22:49,659 --> 00:22:52,788
was interesting because in order
to become a Darknet vendor,

413
00:22:52,788 --> 00:22:55,874
one of the things that you had to do on

414
00:22:56,750 --> 00:22:59,294
Hansa is like you had to you had to pay.

415
00:22:59,294 --> 00:23:01,338
I want to say it was like 200 bucks.

416
00:23:01,338 --> 00:23:04,299
I could easily be wrong,
but I wanted to say

417
00:23:04,299 --> 00:23:07,344
it was like 200 bucks and

418
00:23:08,136 --> 00:23:10,514
they had instituted this policy.

419
00:23:10,514 --> 00:23:11,765
Hansa did

420
00:23:11,807 --> 00:23:15,936
so like I had hopped on their side
and I was on their side for a while

421
00:23:17,104 --> 00:23:21,775
and when I decided I want to become
a vendor, I started making posts.

422
00:23:22,275 --> 00:23:27,614
So I had 10 to 15 years
of like information security and cyber

423
00:23:27,614 --> 00:23:29,032
security experience.

424
00:23:29,032 --> 00:23:32,494
So like learning about OPSEC
really was kind of

425
00:23:33,036 --> 00:23:36,456
it was kind of second nature
for a lot of the stuff that you're

426
00:23:36,456 --> 00:23:40,460
already going to be doing
in information security.

427
00:23:42,754 --> 00:23:45,424
So I remember starting

428
00:23:45,424 --> 00:23:51,096
to make posts and like how I ended up
establishing my name was just helping

429
00:23:51,096 --> 00:23:55,058
as many people as I could and calling out
the people that I knew were scammers.

430
00:23:55,392 --> 00:23:58,937
So, you know, you had a ton of people
obviously, that are on that forum

431
00:23:59,563 --> 00:24:04,192
or any Darknet forums
that are trying to get people to conduct

432
00:24:04,192 --> 00:24:07,988
transactions
with them outside of the escrow system.

433
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,366
So, you know, someone's
I go like, I'm looking for this vendor.

434
00:24:11,366 --> 00:24:12,242
He had power on you

435
00:24:12,242 --> 00:24:15,787
to pound a weed or hypothetically
get a pound of weed for 1200 bucks.

436
00:24:16,204 --> 00:24:18,790
You'd see,
you know, some shark come in and be like,

437
00:24:19,124 --> 00:24:21,585
Oh, I like I have his weed
and I bought in bulk.

438
00:24:21,585 --> 00:24:26,214
And also that he was 600 bucks a pound
and like this guy is just a random person

439
00:24:26,214 --> 00:24:29,217
like you never know anything and he's just
is there to rob you.

440
00:24:29,217 --> 00:24:30,969
You might even be a fed
and he's just there

441
00:24:30,969 --> 00:24:34,806
to try to get your address, you know,
And he'll rob you too, you know, But.

442
00:24:34,806 --> 00:24:36,183
He'll get your edge because.

443
00:24:38,602 --> 00:24:40,854
So like I used
to call those people out, like, if you're

444
00:24:40,896 --> 00:24:44,149
if you said that to someone on the forum,
you'll go like, I can beat his price.

445
00:24:44,357 --> 00:24:45,233
And like, you don't have that

446
00:24:45,233 --> 00:24:48,945
vendor star or like, you can't prove that
you're a legit vendor,

447
00:24:49,321 --> 00:24:53,325
but you can't provide a signed pjp message
saying your vendor

448
00:24:53,325 --> 00:24:55,118
X, Y, and Z from this market.

449
00:24:55,118 --> 00:24:57,245
Then I'd be like, Dude,
like you're a fucking fraud.

450
00:24:57,704 --> 00:25:00,790
You know, like you're trying to rip this
this dude off, you know?

451
00:25:00,790 --> 00:25:02,000
And like,

452
00:25:02,584 --> 00:25:04,753
they used to hate that
because I would call them out

453
00:25:04,753 --> 00:25:10,884
and I made 5000 posts in a month
on Hanson, and that was how I established

454
00:25:11,176 --> 00:25:15,639
my name and by establishing
my name on just one market

455
00:25:16,723 --> 00:25:17,474
when Hanson,

456
00:25:17,474 --> 00:25:20,435
you know, eventually was taken down.

457
00:25:20,435 --> 00:25:23,813
When it was taken down, like we went to
other markets, people knew me

458
00:25:23,813 --> 00:25:28,568
and like it worked out so well that like,
you know, you got to pay that vendor fee.

459
00:25:28,568 --> 00:25:33,365
But with me bear vet, because I had I had
I had written so much hints,

460
00:25:33,365 --> 00:25:37,953
it came out with a policy and they said
in order to talk on our forums,

461
00:25:38,245 --> 00:25:40,497
I don't know if they did this
because of me with you

462
00:25:40,497 --> 00:25:43,458
in order to talk on our forums
because I wasn't a buyer at the time

463
00:25:43,458 --> 00:25:47,170
and I wasn't a seller,
I was literally just there to

464
00:25:48,797 --> 00:25:53,009
brand, to happy times to as a brand

465
00:25:53,343 --> 00:25:59,224
through my PR work of calling out scammers
and helping people with OPSEC.

466
00:26:01,977 --> 00:26:02,644
And they

467
00:26:02,644 --> 00:26:05,897
made this policy where they were like,
Listen, you can't

468
00:26:06,398 --> 00:26:09,401
you can't post in our forums
unless you're a buyer or a vendor.

469
00:26:11,194 --> 00:26:12,195
So I was like, Son of a bitch.

470
00:26:12,195 --> 00:26:17,117
So there was a there was a big cadre,
I want to say was Kim

471
00:26:18,577 --> 00:26:20,870
Pickett, his exact name,

472
00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:22,914
S.S. Cloud or something like that.

473
00:26:23,290 --> 00:26:28,253
But he had an ID send me.

474
00:26:28,295 --> 00:26:30,755
He was like, Listen, man, like, you know,
I know like you like,

475
00:26:31,006 --> 00:26:33,133
you know, on the forums
you do a lot of good.

476
00:26:33,133 --> 00:26:36,970
He was like, if like, if you, you know,
are you going to buy something?

477
00:26:36,970 --> 00:26:38,805
That way you can stay in the forums.

478
00:26:38,805 --> 00:26:40,265
And I was like, well,

479
00:26:40,599 --> 00:26:43,518
like, I understand you understand
bitcoin's a lot,

480
00:26:43,518 --> 00:26:48,023
but like, I'm not completely sure yet
that if I hop on like local bitcoins

481
00:26:48,231 --> 00:26:51,651
that I can buy bitcoins
and have it be completely anonymous.

482
00:26:51,818 --> 00:26:53,320
And for me that's a major risk.

483
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,114
I didn't tell him
I was considering being a vendor yet,

484
00:26:57,532 --> 00:26:59,117
but like that, that was my intention.

485
00:26:59,117 --> 00:27:03,413
Like if I go and I buy bitcoins and
you know, I spend it on something, then

486
00:27:04,581 --> 00:27:07,542
people can associate,

487
00:27:07,542 --> 00:27:11,921
you know, me with that address, you know,
and if I become a vendor,

488
00:27:12,422 --> 00:27:16,176
they just figured out who a vendor was
by osmosis.

489
00:27:16,468 --> 00:27:19,471
So to me
it was like, you know, it's not worth

490
00:27:19,471 --> 00:27:21,556
the cost of being able
to post on the forums.

491
00:27:21,848 --> 00:27:22,849
So as go it's a bad hit.

492
00:27:22,849 --> 00:27:25,060
Like I'm not going to be able
to post in the forums.

493
00:27:25,060 --> 00:27:27,646
And he was like, Now I'm in like,
I'll send you some bitcoin

494
00:27:27,979 --> 00:27:31,650
and just like buy a, you know, buy that.

495
00:27:31,650 --> 00:27:32,025
That's right.

496
00:27:32,025 --> 00:27:35,028
That was made so that technically
that was my first purchase on

497
00:27:35,028 --> 00:27:37,906
the darknet was a stolen credit card.

498
00:27:38,198 --> 00:27:40,283
So he had send me the money for it.

499
00:27:40,450 --> 00:27:43,203
I had bought it off him as to happy times.

500
00:27:43,828 --> 00:27:48,041
And then once I bought it, I was now
a buyer so I could talk on the forums.

501
00:27:48,249 --> 00:27:52,170
So I'm like, Yeah, I solved that problem,
you know, that's awesome.

502
00:27:52,545 --> 00:27:56,007
So and then I sent him his, his card back
because I'm not a fraudster like,

503
00:27:56,299 --> 00:27:58,635
you know,
I'm a, I'm a drug trafficker, so.

504
00:27:58,635 --> 00:27:59,594
Anima Libra.

505
00:27:59,594 --> 00:28:02,222
So everything has to be equal, right?
Thank you.

506
00:28:02,347 --> 00:28:03,181
I did.

507
00:28:03,556 --> 00:28:06,142
I did
steal from someone is then it's like,

508
00:28:06,643 --> 00:28:10,021
you know, I'm I feel like I'm morally
bankrupt because I'm not giving them

509
00:28:10,355 --> 00:28:15,110
something worth value in return, at least
with being like a drug trafficker.

510
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:17,445
We have that even exchange, Right.

511
00:28:17,445 --> 00:28:21,241
Um, so I sent him,
like a stolen credit card number back.

512
00:28:21,241 --> 00:28:23,076
I was like, Here, man, I don't need this.

513
00:28:23,076 --> 00:28:24,411
I'm not going to do anything with it.

514
00:28:24,411 --> 00:28:26,079
Like, I'm good, you know?

515
00:28:27,205 --> 00:28:28,081
So I was like, sweet.

516
00:28:28,081 --> 00:28:30,500
Now, you know,
I could post on the forums, though.

517
00:28:31,626 --> 00:28:36,005
So I kept posting on the forums and then,
you know, about a month or so later,

518
00:28:36,005 --> 00:28:39,926
it was like, um,

519
00:28:40,468 --> 00:28:42,595
they like I wanted to become a vendor.

520
00:28:42,595 --> 00:28:47,225
And so I go to, like,
become a vendor and like, he was like,

521
00:28:47,225 --> 00:28:48,435
Hey, listen, man, like,

522
00:28:48,435 --> 00:28:51,813
you know, if you want to become a vendor,
I'll like our friend you that 200 bucks

523
00:28:52,147 --> 00:28:52,731
to do it.

524
00:28:52,731 --> 00:28:56,317
I know you don't want to go buy
Bitcoin and, and you know your parents.

525
00:28:56,317 --> 00:28:59,696
Are you going paranoid about it Was a
Yeah right Like that's awesome.

526
00:28:59,696 --> 00:29:03,158
Now I appreciate you
you know like, like sticking your neck

527
00:29:03,158 --> 00:29:06,494
out like it's 200 bucks
and Ibrahim makes that in an hour.

528
00:29:06,494 --> 00:29:07,746
But that's

529
00:29:07,746 --> 00:29:12,000
I thought that was really cool that we had
that sense of community with this guy.

530
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,627
Like, we've never met.
We don't know each other.

531
00:29:14,627 --> 00:29:18,590
It's like, you know, when you know someone
in Iasi, but you've never met them.

532
00:29:18,757 --> 00:29:22,677
And like if you tell like your average
person, Oh, I know this guy really well,

533
00:29:22,844 --> 00:29:26,514
you know, I've known him for ten years
and like, people like, oh, like,

534
00:29:27,098 --> 00:29:29,476
you know, like, you know, like,
what do you guys do?

535
00:29:29,893 --> 00:29:30,226
Oh, no.

536
00:29:30,226 --> 00:29:32,145
I mean, I never actually seen him.

537
00:29:32,145 --> 00:29:33,521
Like,
I don't even know what he looks like.

538
00:29:33,521 --> 00:29:35,231
I don't know, like, his race.

539
00:29:35,231 --> 00:29:38,067
I don't know what his voice sounds like
and I don't know anything about him.

540
00:29:38,067 --> 00:29:41,279
But like, you know,
I know his intellect, you know?

541
00:29:41,905 --> 00:29:45,742
Yeah, I know how this dude would go
about owning a system.

542
00:29:46,201 --> 00:29:47,619
You know? I know.

543
00:29:47,619 --> 00:29:51,414
You know, his his methodology
for finding vulnerabilities, like,

544
00:29:51,748 --> 00:29:55,835
you know, you know, these super convoluted
and complicated things about him.

545
00:29:55,835 --> 00:29:57,337
But like, you know,

546
00:29:57,337 --> 00:30:00,340
you don't know what his favorite clothing
brand is because, like,

547
00:30:00,757 --> 00:30:05,053
none of that stuff is relevant
on the Internet, you know, like, you know,

548
00:30:05,053 --> 00:30:08,264
well, back then, like, you know, you
you were judged by your mind, you know.

549
00:30:09,516 --> 00:30:11,810
And I think that was that was

550
00:30:11,810 --> 00:30:15,980
really to me, that was kind of like
the golden age of of the Internet.

551
00:30:15,980 --> 00:30:17,065
Anyways, I digress.

552
00:30:17,065 --> 00:30:18,817
So go, so good.

553
00:30:18,817 --> 00:30:20,985
Let me just catch up to where we are here.

554
00:30:20,985 --> 00:30:23,863
So you, uh,

555
00:30:23,863 --> 00:30:26,157
you're you're struggling at home.

556
00:30:26,157 --> 00:30:27,951
Uh, you're just at the brink.

557
00:30:27,951 --> 00:30:30,912
How old were you at the time when you
when you made a vendor account?

558
00:30:32,205 --> 00:30:32,789
Well,

559
00:30:34,249 --> 00:30:36,584
I don't know.

560
00:30:38,503 --> 00:30:40,755
Like, I couldn't tell you.

561
00:30:40,755 --> 00:30:43,091
Yeah, it's like it's not teenage years.

562
00:30:43,091 --> 00:30:43,508
Oh, yeah.

563
00:30:43,508 --> 00:30:44,467
No, no.

564
00:30:44,467 --> 00:30:47,136
So it's very like,

565
00:30:47,679 --> 00:30:50,306
you know, 30,

566
00:30:50,306 --> 00:30:55,144
32, 33 maybe that the earliest 29 to 33.

567
00:30:55,436 --> 00:30:59,190
It's interesting because a lot of people
do get started here as teenagers

568
00:31:00,275 --> 00:31:02,610
on to their school or whatever.
I right so.

569
00:31:02,861 --> 00:31:06,698
Yeah for sure and I think
I think I think like having an adversary

570
00:31:06,698 --> 00:31:10,368
for law enforcement having that adversary
that's a teenager kid

571
00:31:11,411 --> 00:31:12,704
compared to,

572
00:31:12,704 --> 00:31:17,792
you know, a man who's went to university
for like cybersecurity graduated Now

573
00:31:17,792 --> 00:31:21,880
he works for like Department of Homeland
Security, where he works for like,

574
00:31:22,046 --> 00:31:25,592
you know, one of these cyber attacks
was like kind of going after

575
00:31:26,801 --> 00:31:29,888
a kid,
you know, is like it's kind of laughable.

576
00:31:29,888 --> 00:31:33,641
But like, that's that's kind of honestly,
like, what I like seeing is like

577
00:31:33,641 --> 00:31:36,853
when you have a real adversary, right,

578
00:31:37,061 --> 00:31:42,400
who knows about information security, who,
you know, employs

579
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,738
these policies, you takes
six months of research to set up.

580
00:31:47,947 --> 00:31:50,533
It's like they say stupid cops
make stupid criminals,

581
00:31:50,742 --> 00:31:53,995
you know, And, you know,
the reverse is true.

582
00:31:53,995 --> 00:31:56,080
You know, stupid criminals
make stupid cops.

583
00:31:56,289 --> 00:31:58,625
And I think that's why
we see like the majority of,

584
00:31:59,167 --> 00:32:03,671
you know, law enforcement that like they
they rely on things like informants,

585
00:32:03,713 --> 00:32:06,382
you know, like, you know, the law.

586
00:32:06,674 --> 00:32:10,178
So a good portion of law enforcement,
they couldn't function if if

587
00:32:11,304 --> 00:32:13,598
people stop telling,

588
00:32:13,598 --> 00:32:15,975
you know,
like how how quickly do you think

589
00:32:15,975 --> 00:32:21,940
our rate of incarceration would drop if
everyone stopped putting people in prison?

590
00:32:22,065 --> 00:32:22,941
You know,

591
00:32:23,524 --> 00:32:25,193
and I'm not like I'm
not saying that there are people

592
00:32:25,193 --> 00:32:26,653
that don't deserve to be in prison.

593
00:32:26,653 --> 00:32:31,991
I've met men in prison who I wouldn't
want to see in the free world

594
00:32:31,991 --> 00:32:34,744
because they're evil, you know,

595
00:32:36,287 --> 00:32:37,497
and like that exists.

596
00:32:37,497 --> 00:32:40,750
Like pure evil is a thing.

597
00:32:40,750 --> 00:32:42,669
So, like, I definitely I don't think that,

598
00:32:42,669 --> 00:32:45,338
you know, everyone deserves to be free
because that's definitely not true.

599
00:32:45,338 --> 00:32:48,967
But I also think, you know, incarcerating

600
00:32:49,175 --> 00:32:55,181
25% of our population in America
is absolutely absurd,

601
00:32:55,181 --> 00:32:59,310
especially when you're taking people like,
you know, nonviolent drug crimes

602
00:32:59,310 --> 00:33:01,312
and you're putting them in
with rapists and murderers.

603
00:33:01,312 --> 00:33:03,481
And you these dudes do in ten years.

604
00:33:03,731 --> 00:33:08,277
And, you know, he comes out and he's as
hardened as those rapists and murderers.

605
00:33:08,277 --> 00:33:11,447
So now that's what he's going to be
when he gets out, you know,

606
00:33:11,447 --> 00:33:15,076
I think just perpetuates
the system, you know, And then you add on,

607
00:33:15,118 --> 00:33:18,329
you know, the fact that the 13th Amendment
has basically legalized slavery.

608
00:33:19,122 --> 00:33:22,333
It's all, you know, for profit side issue.

609
00:33:22,375 --> 00:33:24,961
I do agree. I'm going off on a tangent.

610
00:33:24,961 --> 00:33:26,170
Yeah. Okay. So

611
00:33:27,171 --> 00:33:28,006
so it's

612
00:33:28,631 --> 00:33:30,883
one of the things that I struggle with

613
00:33:31,467 --> 00:33:36,264
because I actually was never a vendor
or even bought on these markets.

614
00:33:36,264 --> 00:33:39,225
But what I struggle with
is getting to know the culture there.

615
00:33:39,517 --> 00:33:39,934
Right?

616
00:33:39,934 --> 00:33:42,854
It's it's,
it can you talk about that at all?

617
00:33:42,854 --> 00:33:47,025
Like how do you even begin to understand
darknet culture?

618
00:33:47,025 --> 00:33:51,070
I mean, there's a lot of myth
and scary stuff that people talk about,

619
00:33:51,529 --> 00:33:53,322
and some of that isn't even true.

620
00:33:53,322 --> 00:33:56,951
So how do you kind of pierce
that veil of like, I, I mean,

621
00:33:57,368 --> 00:34:00,663
I understand what like you said, you know,
when someone asks, how do you hack?

622
00:34:01,122 --> 00:34:06,210
I understand the idea that even though
it seems like a dark veil to pierce,

623
00:34:06,461 --> 00:34:10,673
there are so many YouTube channels,
just like, here's how to hack, right?

624
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,010
I mean, I mean, even if you just
you don't even watch any like, you just

625
00:34:14,010 --> 00:34:17,263
you just strictly watch def con, you know,
and then you get to figure

626
00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:22,685
yeah yeah like info con where you know,
you got like what, 700 different,

627
00:34:22,935 --> 00:34:26,230
you know, hacking
and cybersecurity conferences that

628
00:34:26,522 --> 00:34:31,360
I mean it's absolutely insane
when you you compare it to like you know

629
00:34:31,486 --> 00:34:34,614
like back in the day and it's like,
oh you go frac in package storm.

630
00:34:35,698 --> 00:34:38,284
And. I see you know needs your research

631
00:34:39,535 --> 00:34:43,623
but so like the the darknet community

632
00:34:43,748 --> 00:34:49,212
I feel like really the closest thing
you can really compare to

633
00:34:49,212 --> 00:34:54,926
is the hacking community because again,
like a lot of it goes off of intelligence.

634
00:34:54,926 --> 00:34:59,680
But you know, I like to and this is just
me personally, I guess, but

635
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:05,269
like I think there's a massive distinction
between a hacker and a cybercriminal.

636
00:35:06,229 --> 00:35:07,897
And, you know, like that,

637
00:35:07,897 --> 00:35:09,941
you know, and again,
like you're the black hat in the white.

638
00:35:09,982 --> 00:35:13,569
And, you know, I've heard people be like,
oh, black ads are cyber criminals.

639
00:35:13,569 --> 00:35:15,279
Like, honestly,

640
00:35:15,279 --> 00:35:19,575
I think like a black hat and a cyber
criminal or even different because like,

641
00:35:20,284 --> 00:35:21,869
the only thing that really breaks apart

642
00:35:21,869 --> 00:35:25,915
a white hat in a black
hat is intentionality and motives.

643
00:35:26,249 --> 00:35:27,458
Whereas like,

644
00:35:27,458 --> 00:35:30,211
you know, with a cyber criminal, for me,
I just feel like cyber criminals.

645
00:35:30,419 --> 00:35:34,549
It's a much more financially driven term.

646
00:35:34,549 --> 00:35:36,801
Like when I think of a cyber criminal, I'm
thinking of the guy

647
00:35:36,801 --> 00:35:40,638
who's like stealing your credit card
information, you know, like this guy,

648
00:35:41,931 --> 00:35:43,850
he doesn't care about coding in Python.

649
00:35:43,850 --> 00:35:45,935
He doesn't care,

650
00:35:46,185 --> 00:35:48,312
you know, about

651
00:35:48,396 --> 00:35:49,063
like,

652
00:35:50,439 --> 00:35:51,315
you know,

653
00:35:52,108 --> 00:35:54,068
the the vulnerabilities that come out.

654
00:35:54,068 --> 00:35:57,989
Like, you're not going to see him,
you know, get excited about,

655
00:35:58,948 --> 00:36:02,368
you know, Heartbleed
really is just like he's he doesn't care.

656
00:36:02,368 --> 00:36:05,204
And like,
the only time he gets excited is when it's

657
00:36:05,746 --> 00:36:08,666
when he can use it, leverage it
for a financial gain.

658
00:36:08,666 --> 00:36:11,127
And I think hackers
are completely different.

659
00:36:11,127 --> 00:36:14,130
I think, you know, when
I think of a hacker, I think of someone,

660
00:36:15,298 --> 00:36:18,593
regardless of their intentionality,
I think of someone

661
00:36:19,177 --> 00:36:22,930
who is intelligent, who is super curious,

662
00:36:24,223 --> 00:36:28,603
who enjoys learning and enjoys teaching.

663
00:36:29,020 --> 00:36:31,689
I think those, like all of those things
kind of combined

664
00:36:31,898 --> 00:36:35,443
are massive characteristics of a hacker.

665
00:36:35,443 --> 00:36:39,864
You know, it's not like, you know, these,
you know, ridiculous movies, obviously,

666
00:36:39,906 --> 00:36:41,324
like I like Swordfish.

667
00:36:41,324 --> 00:36:44,827
This idiot has six screens
and any types real fast, you know, like

668
00:36:44,994 --> 00:36:47,663
if the definition of being actors
typing real fast,

669
00:36:47,872 --> 00:36:52,335
then like, every secretary is one,
they're just like that kind of idiocracy.

670
00:36:52,335 --> 00:36:56,047
Just it drives me nuts
because it's really it's really demeaning,

671
00:36:56,505 --> 00:36:59,550
especially in my opinion,
especially to a community who,

672
00:36:59,926 --> 00:37:02,595
like you
said, my my DEFCON dog is, you know,

673
00:37:03,971 --> 00:37:04,889
they you know,

674
00:37:04,889 --> 00:37:07,892
they they can be
there are a lot of people in it

675
00:37:07,892 --> 00:37:11,062
who are very intellectually,

676
00:37:11,395 --> 00:37:14,190
you know, dominating where they enjoy it,
you know,

677
00:37:15,733 --> 00:37:17,610
And like, you know,
you have an argument with someone.

678
00:37:17,610 --> 00:37:21,405
And I see like the joy that,
you know, that other person gets.

679
00:37:21,405 --> 00:37:21,906
And like,

680
00:37:22,073 --> 00:37:23,491
you can even have the reverse
where the person

681
00:37:23,491 --> 00:37:26,827
who's losing gets joy out of it
because they're just trolling that person.

682
00:37:26,994 --> 00:37:30,248
But again, at the end of the day,
like none of it is about emotions

683
00:37:30,248 --> 00:37:32,875
and most of it's always about intelligence

684
00:37:35,294 --> 00:37:35,920
and goals.

685
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,548
But anyways,
I think that both of those communities,

686
00:37:39,548 --> 00:37:42,260
both the hacking community and the Darknet

687
00:37:43,094 --> 00:37:45,429
subculture, are very alike

688
00:37:45,429 --> 00:37:49,183
in a lot of ways because, you know,
it's like going back to the I.R.S.

689
00:37:49,183 --> 00:37:51,310
days. That's what you have on the darknet.

690
00:37:51,310 --> 00:37:53,354
Like you don't know who these people are.

691
00:37:53,354 --> 00:37:54,730
They have handles.

692
00:37:54,730 --> 00:37:58,776
They don't, you know, like, you know,
if you were to hop in a random I.R.S.,

693
00:37:59,068 --> 00:38:01,946
you go and you hop in and you're like,
Hey, guys,

694
00:38:02,363 --> 00:38:05,074
you know,
and you give like your real name.

695
00:38:05,908 --> 00:38:07,660
Like,
no one's going to want. To talk to you.

696
00:38:08,744 --> 00:38:11,038
It, you
know, thinking that you're an idiot.

697
00:38:11,205 --> 00:38:13,332
Yeah, I think.

698
00:38:13,457 --> 00:38:18,129
So. Like with that said, it's
you the same that's mirrored

699
00:38:18,504 --> 00:38:22,758
in the Darknet community, except,
you know, in the hacking community.

700
00:38:23,342 --> 00:38:26,637
If someone breaks, you know, deface
the FBI web page or something,

701
00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:28,973
you know, like
there are punishments for that.

702
00:38:29,724 --> 00:38:33,185
But like,
I think the punishments that we see

703
00:38:34,061 --> 00:38:36,939
for the Darknet community in terms of drug
trafficking

704
00:38:37,481 --> 00:38:40,526
can be much more severe than that,

705
00:38:40,943 --> 00:38:43,571
Which, you know, I mean, it's interesting
because for the longest time,

706
00:38:44,030 --> 00:38:47,783
I remember seeing like a lot of hackers
getting, you know, more prison

707
00:38:47,783 --> 00:38:51,662
time than than pedophiles,
which is outrageous to me.

708
00:38:51,662 --> 00:38:55,958
You know, I mean, like, if if you know,
if you have a victim, period,

709
00:38:56,959 --> 00:38:58,753
like it's a completely different crime,

710
00:39:00,004 --> 00:39:01,213
especially a child or a woman.

711
00:39:01,213 --> 00:39:06,719
But, um, so like those two, those
to the point, Yeah, Yeah, absolutely.

712
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,847
You know, like, um, so, like,
like my, my view on it,

713
00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:14,352
a lot of people like, are you left,
you write in like I'm like, you know,

714
00:39:14,393 --> 00:39:18,189
dumb neither, you know, you're not going
to put me in a box and classify me.

715
00:39:18,439 --> 00:39:19,398
You know why?

716
00:39:19,398 --> 00:39:21,442
Because I'm a unique human being.
You know, like.

717
00:39:21,650 --> 00:39:23,027
My fingerprints, unique.

718
00:39:23,027 --> 00:39:26,655
Why care my views on the world be like,
you know.

719
00:39:27,114 --> 00:39:30,242
So. So I'm just trying to

720
00:39:31,702 --> 00:39:34,246
kind of describe this culture
a little bit.

721
00:39:34,246 --> 00:39:38,626
So I you said
and nobody uses a real name, right?

722
00:39:38,626 --> 00:39:40,753
And I imagine nobody's trusting each other
either.

723
00:39:40,753 --> 00:39:44,173
They're all like a little keep
everybody at arm's length here.

724
00:39:45,132 --> 00:39:46,342
To a point to a point where

725
00:39:46,342 --> 00:39:50,262
that can like like anything else
that can be built up over time.

726
00:39:50,262 --> 00:39:53,265
Like you can get to a point
where just like in that I

727
00:39:53,265 --> 00:39:56,394
or see chat as a hacker,
you really trust this guy

728
00:39:56,727 --> 00:39:59,897
and it sounds absolutely insane
to anyone else.

729
00:40:00,147 --> 00:40:02,400
Like if you know this guy
and you've known him for ten years

730
00:40:02,566 --> 00:40:05,861
and a great friend of mine sued 12 C,

731
00:40:06,821 --> 00:40:09,198
who's an admin on the circle, that's me.

732
00:40:09,824 --> 00:40:13,202
He was the guy who got me into

733
00:40:13,452 --> 00:40:16,539
hacking culture and like,
I've never met him,

734
00:40:16,872 --> 00:40:19,875
you know,
But I would trust him with my life,

735
00:40:21,043 --> 00:40:21,419
you know?

736
00:40:21,419 --> 00:40:24,046
And it's just like those kind of bonds
that you have.

737
00:40:24,255 --> 00:40:29,802
But like, that's something that I think
we will see in time in the darknet.

738
00:40:29,802 --> 00:40:34,181
It's something that I've experienced
on a much less intense level on there.

739
00:40:34,515 --> 00:40:35,474
I'm sure like

740
00:40:36,517 --> 00:40:39,186
a good
example of it was there was a vendor

741
00:40:39,186 --> 00:40:46,444
that I had done business
with importing his hashish and

742
00:40:47,486 --> 00:40:50,406
like we had done
so much business together that

743
00:40:51,740 --> 00:40:54,285
like he had
I had earned his trust to a point

744
00:40:54,285 --> 00:40:56,745
where like this guy,
if I asked him to send over,

745
00:40:57,496 --> 00:41:02,084
you know, 100 keys, he would do it
and he wouldn't ask twice.

746
00:41:02,084 --> 00:41:07,381
And like again, like there's no there's
no recourse for him if I rip him off you.

747
00:41:07,465 --> 00:41:11,802
No, This is outside of escrows
of a private deal.

748
00:41:12,761 --> 00:41:16,182
And like, I'm not putting up any money
like he would have to trust.

749
00:41:17,475 --> 00:41:22,229
So, like, you,
you absolutely can forge those bonds

750
00:41:22,438 --> 00:41:26,609
of friendship and trust on the darknet,
But it's something that, like,

751
00:41:26,609 --> 00:41:30,988
he also knew, because I'm a Darknet
vendor, I'm committing federal offenses.

752
00:41:31,780 --> 00:41:32,573
You know?

753
00:41:32,573 --> 00:41:35,326
So, yeah, we. Have like that similarity.

754
00:41:35,326 --> 00:41:40,289
It's like if I'm a if I'm a vendor, it's
fairly easy for me to get a job

755
00:41:41,332 --> 00:41:42,208
on a Darknet

756
00:41:42,208 --> 00:41:45,377
marketplace because they know
I'm a criminal.

757
00:41:45,544 --> 00:41:48,672
They know I'm
not a fed like I'm shipping off

758
00:41:49,215 --> 00:41:53,344
coke, weed, acid, shrooms, hash.

759
00:41:53,844 --> 00:41:59,016
Molly You know, like all this stuff
on a daily basis throughout the country.

760
00:41:59,350 --> 00:42:01,685
They know and they can verify that,

761
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,772
you know, I'm not a not a federal agent.

762
00:42:04,772 --> 00:42:05,231
You know, because.

763
00:42:05,231 --> 00:42:08,609
Yeah, so it may I'm trying to find
some analogies here

764
00:42:08,609 --> 00:42:11,612
and maybe that the third one is

765
00:42:11,820 --> 00:42:14,281
everyone is criminal.

766
00:42:14,532 --> 00:42:15,074
Yeah, sure.

767
00:42:15,074 --> 00:42:15,699
But it's like, you know,

768
00:42:15,699 --> 00:42:18,536
at the end of the day, like,
I've never been in to an I.R.S.

769
00:42:18,869 --> 00:42:22,206
and had someone be like,
Hey, man, prove your killer be.

770
00:42:22,206 --> 00:42:24,458
Send me a signed pjp message.

771
00:42:26,085 --> 00:42:30,214
You know, there's no there's no hackers
that ever canary that texts you.

772
00:42:31,590 --> 00:42:33,425
Yeah, Yeah.

773
00:42:33,425 --> 00:42:35,427
So, like, you really don't know.

774
00:42:35,469 --> 00:42:36,428
You know, I.

775
00:42:36,428 --> 00:42:39,306
But I think the evolution of the darknet
really,

776
00:42:40,766 --> 00:42:43,394
really showed that, like,
there are ways that we can,

777
00:42:43,394 --> 00:42:47,273
even in the hacking culture,
that we can improve on our own OPSEC

778
00:42:49,149 --> 00:42:52,778
through some of the natural evolutions
that we've seen on the darknet, like,

779
00:42:52,778 --> 00:42:57,032
you know, having BGP
sign message and, you know,

780
00:42:57,032 --> 00:43:00,411
so and you do have that, but like what
I'm saying, it's not a regular thing.

781
00:43:00,411 --> 00:43:02,288
Like, you know, I've never I've never had

782
00:43:02,288 --> 00:43:06,083
someone asked me for a signed message
and I was, oh.

783
00:43:06,584 --> 00:43:07,126
Okay.

784
00:43:07,126 --> 00:43:11,964
So what we're working up
to be becoming a vendor here,

785
00:43:12,423 --> 00:43:14,883
and it sounds like you spent
quite a while,

786
00:43:16,051 --> 00:43:17,678
like months

787
00:43:18,012 --> 00:43:20,848
and I'm understanding the whole OPSEC game
and learning

788
00:43:21,015 --> 00:43:24,226
about other vendors and stuff,
because before you even make a vendor

789
00:43:24,935 --> 00:43:27,438
account and go through the whole process,
you've already

790
00:43:27,438 --> 00:43:28,606
got quite a bit of knowledge.

791
00:43:28,606 --> 00:43:32,776
So I'm assuming you're reading up on
kind of like history and how people have

792
00:43:33,444 --> 00:43:36,614
been caught in the past and it's worked
and what hasn't worked.

793
00:43:36,822 --> 00:43:39,867
Can you remember any stories
that kind of stuck out to you of like,

794
00:43:40,117 --> 00:43:41,994
Oh wow, I guess you should never do that?

795
00:43:41,994 --> 00:43:43,746
Or that's a lesson learned there.

796
00:43:43,746 --> 00:43:43,996
Yeah.

797
00:43:43,996 --> 00:43:47,207
So there were there were some
that were like really subtle

798
00:43:47,499 --> 00:43:50,836
and there are some that were like really
blatantly obvious, like,

799
00:43:52,212 --> 00:43:55,174
like some
of the some of the blatantly obvious ones

800
00:43:55,174 --> 00:43:59,053
where I remember reading about a case
I no clue what his name is, but

801
00:43:59,845 --> 00:44:02,222
I'm reading about a case
who this idiot had

802
00:44:03,515 --> 00:44:07,186
hit his PDP key as a vendor,
and he actually

803
00:44:07,186 --> 00:44:11,315
he also used it as his Gmail PDP

804
00:44:11,774 --> 00:44:14,860
and like the stupid, stupid stuff
like that.

805
00:44:14,860 --> 00:44:15,569
But then,

806
00:44:16,695 --> 00:44:19,239
you know, some of the more subtle
things would probably be

807
00:44:21,283 --> 00:44:24,703
like just really small stuff,
like the kind of the screw

808
00:44:24,703 --> 00:44:29,291
ups to linguistics or seeing like after.

809
00:44:29,291 --> 00:44:32,836
So, you know, Hansa,
which is the like my first market

810
00:44:32,836 --> 00:44:35,255
that I really involved with.

811
00:44:35,255 --> 00:44:40,594
When I went down, they had this thing
where they had the feds that took it down.

812
00:44:40,594 --> 00:44:42,971
I had said
that, you know, supposedly they had

813
00:44:44,056 --> 00:44:47,101
put a in there and like the

814
00:44:47,101 --> 00:44:51,021
recovery keys for the accounts
to be able to get your bitcoin back

815
00:44:52,064 --> 00:44:54,400
that like those keys

816
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,403
had malware embedded in them essentially

817
00:44:58,821 --> 00:45:00,864
and like I never

818
00:45:01,865 --> 00:45:03,784
I never saw anything from that.

819
00:45:03,784 --> 00:45:07,663
Blake At the end of the day, it's
just like

820
00:45:07,663 --> 00:45:12,000
no one had known that that market
had been taken over by feds at the time.

821
00:45:12,376 --> 00:45:14,795
So to use that key,

822
00:45:16,088 --> 00:45:18,507
basically like, oh,
there's a lot of vendors who did it

823
00:45:20,050 --> 00:45:23,929
and like I did
and I was a small vendor of any money

824
00:45:23,929 --> 00:45:28,183
basically to be able
to, you know, get screwed over on on that

825
00:45:29,351 --> 00:45:32,354
when the feds took it over
and then exit scammed out of it is

826
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,900
like that was a really interesting thing
that.

827
00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:39,778
Should be your they should be your name
exit scammed by the feds.

828
00:45:41,321 --> 00:45:43,240
Well that was so that was probably one

829
00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:47,202
of the one of the one of the things
that really I think

830
00:45:47,327 --> 00:45:51,457
I hated the most out of darkness
vending the whole bowl time.

831
00:45:51,457 --> 00:45:54,877
The thing I hated the most
because my big thing

832
00:45:55,085 --> 00:45:58,422
again, like being a Libra, being,

833
00:45:58,422 --> 00:46:01,759
you know, like very,
you know, being an AI and TP and like,

834
00:46:02,384 --> 00:46:06,221
being very tit for tat was like,
I hated scammers.

835
00:46:06,221 --> 00:46:08,265
And I really wasn't
a big fan of the fraudsters.

836
00:46:09,016 --> 00:46:11,977
Like, if you screwed over a bank or credit
card company, that's one thing

837
00:46:12,186 --> 00:46:13,812
we're screwing over an individual.

838
00:46:13,812 --> 00:46:16,356
It's a completely different thing.

839
00:46:16,356 --> 00:46:17,566
But like

840
00:46:18,358 --> 00:46:20,652
kind of seeing,

841
00:46:23,447 --> 00:46:25,657
seeing, like seeing people

842
00:46:26,617 --> 00:46:29,953
being screwed over and exit scams
like you,

843
00:46:29,995 --> 00:46:34,333
it always it really aggravated me because,
you know, those admins, you create

844
00:46:34,333 --> 00:46:39,171
these Darknet markets in an exit scam,
they make a certain percentage.

845
00:46:39,171 --> 00:46:41,673
And who who knows that percentage?
I have no clue.

846
00:46:41,799 --> 00:46:43,967
But like, you know, there's going to be
a certain percentage

847
00:46:43,967 --> 00:46:47,554
of people who at the end of the day
become more hesitant

848
00:46:48,096 --> 00:46:52,226
about giving some
of their trust to a market,

849
00:46:54,394 --> 00:46:54,937
which was,

850
00:46:54,937 --> 00:46:57,940
you know, one of the reasons why
I thought Open Bazaar was really great,

851
00:46:57,940 --> 00:47:01,235
which is a distributed system,
that's a whole nother topic.

852
00:47:01,235 --> 00:47:02,194
But I'm

853
00:47:04,863 --> 00:47:06,615
like, when I got raided

854
00:47:06,615 --> 00:47:09,701
and they seized everything

855
00:47:10,452 --> 00:47:13,497
and like three weeks later, you know,
I got in the cell phone

856
00:47:13,497 --> 00:47:16,416
and I was able to hop on Jared

857
00:47:16,708 --> 00:47:20,128
and just see what was going on, like get
him make any posts or anything like that.

858
00:47:20,504 --> 00:47:24,007
Because like, you know,
I'm under indictment Yeah, you might.

859
00:47:24,341 --> 00:47:26,468
Well, I'm going to go make posts.

860
00:47:26,468 --> 00:47:30,305
But like, I saw like my account
you have three times to making posts.

861
00:47:30,556 --> 00:47:34,101
So it's the feds who are making posts
under my name.

862
00:47:34,226 --> 00:47:38,939
And I'm seeing people like, like,
you know, you know, two happy times.

863
00:47:38,939 --> 00:47:42,442
Two is exit scamming,
you know, like, cause, like, they're not

864
00:47:42,734 --> 00:47:44,736
they're not allowed to send drugs.

865
00:47:44,736 --> 00:47:46,154
The feds, you know,

866
00:47:47,322 --> 00:47:49,867
So, like,
that was like if I saw a vendor account

867
00:47:49,867 --> 00:47:52,953
that was, you know, like with markets,
it's kind of easy to see it.

868
00:47:52,953 --> 00:47:56,081
They're exit scamming because
all of a sudden all the money gets locked.

869
00:47:56,498 --> 00:47:58,876
With vendors,
it's a little bit more difficult

870
00:47:59,126 --> 00:48:03,380
because it's a little bit more delayed
and a lot of them will dilute that

871
00:48:04,006 --> 00:48:06,133
by doing like selective scams

872
00:48:07,092 --> 00:48:09,136
prior to doing full on exit scams.

873
00:48:09,136 --> 00:48:10,971
But I always thought,
like the people who did

874
00:48:10,971 --> 00:48:15,017
that were just scumbags
because like you built up this, the trust

875
00:48:15,017 --> 00:48:18,937
of all these people and these people
that buy your product, they supported you,

876
00:48:19,813 --> 00:48:20,898
you know, it's like, yeah,

877
00:48:20,898 --> 00:48:24,651
like you build this relationship
and even if it's just with a fake name.

878
00:48:25,027 --> 00:48:28,739
Ray Like, like you made this name
honorable

879
00:48:29,197 --> 00:48:32,826
by always
fulfilling your obligations, you know?

880
00:48:32,826 --> 00:48:36,121
And then like, right before you leave,
you rip a bunch of people off.

881
00:48:36,121 --> 00:48:39,416
Like, I just thought it was
it was just such a scumbag move

882
00:48:39,416 --> 00:48:42,711
to do and, like, you're really
are you really kind of broke my heart.

883
00:48:42,794 --> 00:48:47,925
Like hopping heart and seeing these people
they go to every times to his exit scam.

884
00:48:48,008 --> 00:48:52,346
And I was like, dude, like, it's
not that you're I mean, like I

885
00:48:52,429 --> 00:48:55,515
yeah, I got a ten count
indictment, you know like and

886
00:48:56,558 --> 00:48:57,893
they like it it definitely

887
00:48:57,893 --> 00:49:01,480
wasn't their like innovative choice and it
I would have you know I would have just

888
00:49:02,022 --> 00:49:04,483
I would have stopped
and I would have shut it down.

889
00:49:04,858 --> 00:49:07,319
And you know, I guess I, you know,
we always have a choice, right?

890
00:49:07,903 --> 00:49:11,615
I just didn't do it soon enough. But.

891
00:49:12,407 --> 00:49:14,743
Okay, so you guys started on Hansa.

892
00:49:14,743 --> 00:49:16,828
Do you remember what you were sold
for at first?

893
00:49:17,329 --> 00:49:17,621
Yeah.

894
00:49:17,621 --> 00:49:21,458
So it was a moonshine and cannabis, and,
and so my name,

895
00:49:21,458 --> 00:49:25,003
if you look up, if you look me up
like my name isn't too happy times.

896
00:49:25,253 --> 00:49:26,922
It's two happy times. Two.

897
00:49:26,922 --> 00:49:30,425
Now, the reason that came about
was because, like I said on the forums,

898
00:49:31,343 --> 00:49:33,637
in order to keep posting,
I had to become a buyer.

899
00:49:34,388 --> 00:49:38,100
And once I became a buyer, there,

900
00:49:39,184 --> 00:49:39,935
security

901
00:49:39,935 --> 00:49:42,270
on Hansa
would not allow me to become event.

902
00:49:43,146 --> 00:49:46,274
Which makes sense right?

903
00:49:46,274 --> 00:49:48,276
Because if like, you know,
you want something

904
00:49:48,276 --> 00:49:51,405
to your physical address
and your name's out there

905
00:49:51,405 --> 00:49:54,700
with your address, they don't want it
or vendor's name and address out there

906
00:49:55,367 --> 00:49:58,870
actually a really good policy to have.

907
00:49:59,162 --> 00:50:01,665
But it aggravated me because I just man,
I just spend,

908
00:50:02,708 --> 00:50:05,502
you know, like a month
and a half building up this name too.

909
00:50:05,502 --> 00:50:07,004
Happy times.

910
00:50:07,004 --> 00:50:10,257
So now, like, I have to abandon this brand

911
00:50:10,257 --> 00:50:11,466
that I built,

912
00:50:13,385 --> 00:50:16,805
you know, I made 5000 posts
and then you name this brand.

913
00:50:17,139 --> 00:50:19,057
So what I did was I was like, Screw that.

914
00:50:19,057 --> 00:50:22,811
So I ended up
just going and making two happy times.

915
00:50:22,853 --> 00:50:26,356
Then I put the two at the end of it,
and that's how my vendor name

916
00:50:26,690 --> 00:50:27,691
became my vendor.

917
00:50:28,650 --> 00:50:30,485
Yeah, I worked.

918
00:50:31,111 --> 00:50:35,282
So you were making a moonshine,
but where were you getting the cannabis.

919
00:50:36,491 --> 00:50:37,617
Was growing it.

920
00:50:37,617 --> 00:50:37,909
Yeah.

921
00:50:37,909 --> 00:50:42,247
So I had, I had imported seeds from the to

922
00:50:43,373 --> 00:50:48,045
I had gotten some master Kush seeds
and I refined them

923
00:50:48,462 --> 00:50:52,424
and I studied so and studied botany for

924
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,511
over 15 years

925
00:50:57,846 --> 00:51:01,558
like the prior to the Cannabis
Encyclopedia of No one to say

926
00:51:01,558 --> 00:51:06,313
the dude's name was were
these were a bunch of the story services

927
00:51:06,938 --> 00:51:09,066
but he had read in a bunch of books
prior to that.

928
00:51:09,357 --> 00:51:11,485
I had read every single one of them.

929
00:51:11,485 --> 00:51:14,946
So I learned like I taught myself about
like macro nutrients, micronutrients,

930
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:19,367
deep water, cultures, scribes
like all this, all this kind of stuff,

931
00:51:19,701 --> 00:51:22,537
aeration and, you know, nutri deficiencies

932
00:51:22,537 --> 00:51:26,166
and how to tell,
you know, nutrient deficiencies of plants.

933
00:51:27,834 --> 00:51:30,003
And so I had I had learned all this stuff

934
00:51:30,003 --> 00:51:33,965
and I had wanted to cultivate cannabis
for the longest time.

935
00:51:34,841 --> 00:51:37,260
And then like, you know, when I finally

936
00:51:37,844 --> 00:51:40,055
when I became a vendor, it was like,

937
00:51:41,014 --> 00:51:45,644
now I have a way to distribute this.

938
00:51:45,644 --> 00:51:51,399
Like I can make what I want because I know
I have people that I can sell it to.

939
00:51:51,691 --> 00:51:53,860
Whereas like before,
if I'm doing it locally,

940
00:51:54,778 --> 00:51:57,823
I have to go out and try to find,

941
00:51:57,823 --> 00:52:01,326
you know, someone out there
to buy moonshine, to buy,

942
00:52:02,285 --> 00:52:05,539
you know, this, this cannabis
and like for me,

943
00:52:05,539 --> 00:52:08,291
like that's a risk because now, like,
this person knows my face.

944
00:52:08,625 --> 00:52:10,168
What happens if they get busted?

945
00:52:10,168 --> 00:52:11,962
You know, they at least.

946
00:52:12,879 --> 00:52:13,755
Excuse. Me,

947
00:52:14,881 --> 00:52:18,135
they at least know like the town I'm from,
they know what I look like.

948
00:52:18,135 --> 00:52:19,845
They know what I drive.

949
00:52:19,845 --> 00:52:20,554
That's an issue.

950
00:52:20,554 --> 00:52:24,307
So like with the darknet, it alleviates
all that you don't have any of.

951
00:52:25,934 --> 00:52:26,685
And, you

952
00:52:26,685 --> 00:52:29,771
know, so I was able to do something
I wanted to do,

953
00:52:29,771 --> 00:52:34,025
which was cultivate cannabis
and, you know, produce quality alcohol

954
00:52:34,484 --> 00:52:38,405
and distribute it on a national level.

955
00:52:39,406 --> 00:52:40,157
Okay.

956
00:52:40,448 --> 00:52:42,576
Oh, sounds like you're on your way.

957
00:52:42,617 --> 00:52:44,995
You've got your vendor account,
you got a couple,

958
00:52:45,745 --> 00:52:49,124
you know, products you've made,
which is pretty, pretty smart

959
00:52:49,124 --> 00:52:54,212
and astute for a while, your first time
as a vendor there to make your own stuff.

960
00:52:54,754 --> 00:52:57,007
But yeah, how to go on.

961
00:52:57,007 --> 00:52:59,801
Hansa,
how's your first dip into the vendor pool?

962
00:52:59,885 --> 00:53:04,389
Yeah, so I want to say on the first week
I made about 300 bucks

963
00:53:05,348 --> 00:53:08,435
and then the second week
was crazy, about $500.

964
00:53:09,352 --> 00:53:11,938
So it was definitely it was a slow start.

965
00:53:11,938 --> 00:53:16,818
But had I not spent that month making
those posts, I would've had no sales.

966
00:53:18,278 --> 00:53:20,322
So like, again,

967
00:53:20,322 --> 00:53:23,950
you don't, you know, the big,
you know, one, the big rules kind of

968
00:53:23,950 --> 00:53:27,579
you see on the darknet is build, trust,
verify, right.

969
00:53:28,038 --> 00:53:30,373
Like how do I know
you are who you say you are?

970
00:53:30,582 --> 00:53:32,417
Send me a signed PG pic.

971
00:53:32,417 --> 00:53:35,795
Now I know you know a signed message,
you know now I know.

972
00:53:36,046 --> 00:53:40,175
So I can verify that
with the public priebke that's on record.

973
00:53:40,175 --> 00:53:41,927
I one of the markets.

974
00:53:42,886 --> 00:53:45,472
So like with that said like you

975
00:53:46,932 --> 00:53:49,392
you know
you have that kind of verification

976
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,729
when you go from

977
00:53:53,021 --> 00:53:55,607
one market to another

978
00:53:55,899 --> 00:53:59,653
and like I just totally lost
track of where I was going with that.

979
00:54:00,111 --> 00:54:00,612
That's okay.

980
00:54:00,612 --> 00:54:01,446
I get yeah.

981
00:54:01,446 --> 00:54:03,782
So the,

982
00:54:04,991 --> 00:54:07,244
the OPSEC really starts to kick in here,
right?

983
00:54:07,535 --> 00:54:10,455
Posting on a forum is not a big deal,

984
00:54:10,455 --> 00:54:13,458
but now you've
really got to turn it up. So

985
00:54:15,252 --> 00:54:16,836
let's talk about

986
00:54:17,754 --> 00:54:19,714
the packages very far away,

987
00:54:19,714 --> 00:54:23,093
I think, or
I mean, so let me just walk through here.

988
00:54:23,093 --> 00:54:25,095
So you got to have

989
00:54:25,804 --> 00:54:27,681
an account on the place.

990
00:54:27,681 --> 00:54:31,601
A vendor approved BGP,
you've got all that.

991
00:54:31,810 --> 00:54:32,143
Okay.

992
00:54:32,143 --> 00:54:34,771
What kind of operating system
or how what was your access

993
00:54:35,146 --> 00:54:37,482
to the news of the market

994
00:54:38,525 --> 00:54:41,861
using entails or what was the method
of gaining access there?

995
00:54:42,070 --> 00:54:44,948
So initially,
you know, like where it was at,

996
00:54:45,824 --> 00:54:49,369
the reason that my, you know,
my residential company

997
00:54:49,369 --> 00:54:52,747
for the cybersecurity stuff
that I was doing, it died out so much

998
00:54:53,123 --> 00:54:55,375
was because where where I moved to

999
00:54:56,084 --> 00:54:59,045
had no Internet access

1000
00:54:59,713 --> 00:55:03,717
it was a gorgeous
house was a four bedroom,

1001
00:55:04,050 --> 00:55:07,095
two bath on the top of a mountain bike.

1002
00:55:07,095 --> 00:55:09,597
You could see five other mountains

1003
00:55:09,597 --> 00:55:11,516
by looking out the windows
all the way around.

1004
00:55:11,516 --> 00:55:13,018
It was gorgeous.

1005
00:55:13,018 --> 00:55:14,769
You surrounded by mansions.

1006
00:55:14,769 --> 00:55:17,731
I found it for 1100 bucks on Craigslist.

1007
00:55:18,940 --> 00:55:19,482
What.

1008
00:55:19,691 --> 00:55:21,318
1100. Now?

1009
00:55:21,318 --> 00:55:23,403
Yeah, that's a typo. So.

1010
00:55:23,778 --> 00:55:26,823
So if you're like, you know,
you want to check it out,

1011
00:55:28,074 --> 00:55:29,659
it's a

1012
00:55:29,951 --> 00:55:30,618
delicate room.

1013
00:55:30,618 --> 00:55:32,162
The address,

1014
00:55:33,163 --> 00:55:36,458
I want to say 1139.

1015
00:55:36,458 --> 00:55:38,251
Darling. That's not right.

1016
00:55:38,251 --> 00:55:39,169
You'd have to Google it.

1017
00:55:39,169 --> 00:55:41,880
You'd find it in my my pacer stuff.

1018
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:45,508
But it's it's a gorgeous house
and amazing view.

1019
00:55:45,550 --> 00:55:51,097
Like when they do 4th of July fireworks
here in Vermont, you'll see people drive

1020
00:55:51,097 --> 00:55:54,726
an arc in front of that house

1021
00:55:54,893 --> 00:55:57,854
to see it because the view so

1022
00:55:57,937 --> 00:56:00,023
so it's it's nuts but it's

1023
00:56:00,273 --> 00:56:03,943
it was always interesting to me because
like I'm inside committing felonies.

1024
00:56:04,110 --> 00:56:07,197
You mean like I'm growing weed, I'm
making moonshine.

1025
00:56:07,405 --> 00:56:12,035
I'm like,
I have 200 people outside on my lawn and,

1026
00:56:12,285 --> 00:56:15,205
you know, watching the fireworks
as I'm distilling

1027
00:56:15,205 --> 00:56:18,500
ten gallons of 170 proof, you know,

1028
00:56:18,875 --> 00:56:23,338
moonshine just shipped to, you know,
all these different states course.

1029
00:56:23,338 --> 00:56:25,340
So like, yeah, like you're you're opsec.

1030
00:56:25,340 --> 00:56:26,091
Definitely.

1031
00:56:26,091 --> 00:56:29,594
And like, the the thing is,
like sending any drugs through

1032
00:56:29,594 --> 00:56:34,974
the mail is like, it's not tricky
when you know how to do it, but it is

1033
00:56:35,975 --> 00:56:38,269
very much so.

1034
00:56:38,269 --> 00:56:40,980
The difficulty in sending pure alcohol

1035
00:56:41,648 --> 00:56:44,526
through the mail is a little bit different
than,

1036
00:56:45,527 --> 00:56:48,655
you know, mailing some weed
because like you got to think like,

1037
00:56:49,030 --> 00:56:52,117
you know, the cabins in an airplane is
are pressurized.

1038
00:56:52,117 --> 00:56:54,285
You know, is it. Not like if.

1039
00:56:54,702 --> 00:56:58,498
If I'm sending a gallon of this moonshine
that's in mason

1040
00:56:58,498 --> 00:57:02,168
jars to Alaska,
how is that going to be transport?

1041
00:57:02,710 --> 00:57:04,587
You know, how do you wrap that up?

1042
00:57:04,587 --> 00:57:07,799
How do you make sure that, like,
if something does happen to it,

1043
00:57:08,007 --> 00:57:10,844
that it doesn't leak? So,

1044
00:57:10,885 --> 00:57:15,432
like and then how do you make it
so that you don't have any overhead

1045
00:57:16,724 --> 00:57:17,976
for that?

1046
00:57:18,309 --> 00:57:20,770
So like, for me,
one thing I came to find out

1047
00:57:20,770 --> 00:57:25,066
was that USPS on their
website, you can order free

1048
00:57:26,776 --> 00:57:27,944
supplies, right?

1049
00:57:27,944 --> 00:57:31,781
So like, like if you want bubble wrap,
like instead of buying

1050
00:57:31,781 --> 00:57:34,451
bubble
wrap from Amazon with your credit card,

1051
00:57:34,951 --> 00:57:38,371
having it sent to your house
and going through a ton of it,

1052
00:57:38,997 --> 00:57:44,294
you can order envelopes from USPS
or pick them up in person, right?

1053
00:57:44,711 --> 00:57:47,338
And now you don't have a credit card
purchase.

1054
00:57:48,131 --> 00:57:51,092
You know, for one
less of your shipping supplies.

1055
00:57:51,509 --> 00:57:52,177
Yeah.

1056
00:57:53,052 --> 00:57:54,637
So it was like little stuff like that.

1057
00:57:54,637 --> 00:57:56,222
So I would do stuff like that.

1058
00:57:56,222 --> 00:57:58,641
So, like, and like I would take a jar.

1059
00:57:58,641 --> 00:58:00,935
I would make sure
that it's filled all the way to the top.

1060
00:58:01,060 --> 00:58:04,439
So when I shake it, I don't hear anything,

1061
00:58:04,439 --> 00:58:04,731
right?

1062
00:58:04,814 --> 00:58:05,982
Because if I take a bunch of liquid

1063
00:58:05,982 --> 00:58:09,944
and I put it fill a jar halfway up
and I put it in a box and you shake

1064
00:58:09,944 --> 00:58:14,449
and you're splashing in the box, it's,
you know, kind of a red flag.

1065
00:58:14,449 --> 00:58:17,160
So they used to film all the way
up to the top, seal them,

1066
00:58:17,911 --> 00:58:22,457
and then I would wrap in a like kind of
like a big sandwich bag or a freezer bag.

1067
00:58:22,749 --> 00:58:26,586
Then I would wrap them
in a one of the bubble bags

1068
00:58:26,586 --> 00:58:29,839
for the big envelopes a USPS has.

1069
00:58:30,131 --> 00:58:33,009
And then I would take
I would order like generic

1070
00:58:34,177 --> 00:58:36,179
catalogs that were really big,

1071
00:58:36,179 --> 00:58:38,431
like Granger or or

1072
00:58:40,767 --> 00:58:41,976
what's the other one?

1073
00:58:41,976 --> 00:58:43,603
Shipping one.

1074
00:58:43,978 --> 00:58:46,856
But I would order like there's
there's free catalogs

1075
00:58:47,106 --> 00:58:52,153
that had 500 or so 2000 pages in them
and I would tear the pages,

1076
00:58:52,362 --> 00:58:54,447
crumple them up into a ball
and throw them in there

1077
00:58:54,447 --> 00:58:57,200
and I would pack it
so there's no packing peanuts.

1078
00:58:57,367 --> 00:58:59,410
So now I don't have to buy that on Amazon.

1079
00:58:59,577 --> 00:59:02,497
You know, like I would make sure
that my expenses, you know,

1080
00:59:02,497 --> 00:59:05,500
whatever you're sending out,
that's one in that you can get popped.

1081
00:59:05,708 --> 00:59:09,045
But like you buying supplies
is just as dangerous, right?

1082
00:59:09,671 --> 00:59:12,632
So all you have to factor
in all those things And like,

1083
00:59:12,799 --> 00:59:14,801
you know,
if you can factor those things in

1084
00:59:14,801 --> 00:59:18,304
and make sure that they have no overhead,
even better, you know, because now

1085
00:59:18,304 --> 00:59:21,683
you're more profitable and like
you want to be as profitable as possible

1086
00:59:22,267 --> 00:59:24,602
when you're doing this,
because that's the point.

1087
00:59:24,686 --> 00:59:28,064
You know, the more profitable
you are, the less time you have to spend

1088
00:59:28,606 --> 00:59:31,693
actually doing all this nonsense
and worrying about these things.

1089
00:59:32,735 --> 00:59:33,194
Yeah.

1090
00:59:33,194 --> 00:59:35,530
Okay, so no Internet.

1091
00:59:35,780 --> 00:59:36,864
Let's go back to those. Right.

1092
00:59:36,864 --> 00:59:39,701
So accessing the website,

1093
00:59:39,701 --> 00:59:42,370
what was the steps
of accessing the website upset wise?

1094
00:59:42,704 --> 00:59:47,834
So, so I had to do I drove down about them

1095
00:59:47,959 --> 00:59:53,089
but I would say about a mile
and I ended up I think it was.

1096
00:59:53,089 --> 00:59:55,341
Carly Yeah, I think it was.

1097
00:59:55,341 --> 00:59:57,844
I think it was Carly At that point.

1098
00:59:57,844 --> 00:59:59,387
And if it wasn't, it was backtrack.

1099
00:59:59,387 --> 01:00:02,515
But like, you know,
I've always been a big fan of, you know,

1100
01:00:03,266 --> 01:00:06,185
that distro,
especially like offensive security stuff

1101
01:00:07,437 --> 01:00:08,438
but like

1102
01:00:09,188 --> 01:00:12,358
I when I go I think is why I loaded up

1103
01:00:12,358 --> 01:00:15,194
and you know cracked the crack there

1104
01:00:16,738 --> 01:00:19,407
the Wi-Fi and that was there

1105
01:00:19,407 --> 01:00:23,244
once I had once I had access to it
I came back I said to you guys

1106
01:00:24,203 --> 01:00:26,080
that I used

1107
01:00:26,122 --> 01:00:27,999
one. So who's whose wife? I do.

1108
01:00:27,999 --> 01:00:30,084
Did you crack my neighbors?

1109
01:00:30,084 --> 01:00:30,543
Yeah. Well,

1110
01:00:30,543 --> 01:00:33,338
okay, not technically, not my neighbors,
because he was like, a mile away.

1111
01:00:34,297 --> 01:00:36,674
Joe is like a guy down the street.

1112
01:00:36,674 --> 01:00:37,342
Mm hmm.

1113
01:00:37,675 --> 01:00:40,762
But, like, he was So remember
I said the house was up on the hill?

1114
01:00:41,346 --> 01:00:44,432
Yeah, so the house was up on a hill.

1115
01:00:44,432 --> 01:00:48,186
And like, a vantage point, you know, for,
like, a snipers up on the hill.

1116
01:00:48,519 --> 01:00:52,607
So I was like, you know,
if I can see everything that's below me.

1117
01:00:53,566 --> 01:00:56,486
I remember I had read one time,
and I want to min next books.

1118
01:00:56,486 --> 01:00:57,487
I mean, these are movies.

1119
01:00:57,487 --> 01:01:02,116
I thought it was a Mitnick book, but
how he had basically reverse engineered

1120
01:01:03,117 --> 01:01:04,035
a way to get

1121
01:01:05,078 --> 01:01:07,872
a phone that had a rewritable

1122
01:01:09,457 --> 01:01:11,751
which their like
their Social security number

1123
01:01:12,251 --> 01:01:16,214
or like a phone though
it's like, oh, I am yeah you're some.

1124
01:01:16,214 --> 01:01:18,883
So I'm like, yeah, yeah.
You want to turn around?

1125
01:01:18,883 --> 01:01:19,884
Yeah, I think you're right.

1126
01:01:19,884 --> 01:01:21,761
I'm not a phone freak, so I don't know.

1127
01:01:21,761 --> 01:01:25,932
But, but like he had gotten this way
where you got a developer phone

1128
01:01:26,140 --> 01:01:30,103
where you could basically rewrite
the serial number of the phone at will

1129
01:01:30,228 --> 01:01:34,357
and phone numbers were assigned
based on the serial numbers,

1130
01:01:34,691 --> 01:01:36,067
and that's how they tracked them.

1131
01:01:36,067 --> 01:01:37,276
So like

1132
01:01:37,777 --> 01:01:40,321
when he was on the run and again,
like I could have this screwed up,

1133
01:01:40,321 --> 01:01:41,322
it could be a movie.

1134
01:01:41,322 --> 01:01:43,825
I'm not saying this is you know,
this is fact.

1135
01:01:43,825 --> 01:01:45,702
But the idea stuck with me.

1136
01:01:45,702 --> 01:01:47,286
I remember the source.

1137
01:01:47,286 --> 01:01:50,164
But you this idea of
where could it come from?

1138
01:01:50,164 --> 01:01:51,207
But besides this guy

1139
01:01:52,333 --> 01:01:52,917
and like,

1140
01:01:52,917 --> 01:01:56,713
you know, he had used this
and he had hacked into the cell towers

1141
01:01:56,713 --> 01:02:01,509
around him and preprogrammed
these cell towers that when, you know,

1142
01:02:02,176 --> 01:02:06,013
certain phone numbers were within range,
he would get an alert.

1143
01:02:06,305 --> 01:02:08,599
And those phone numbers were phone numbers

1144
01:02:09,016 --> 01:02:13,271
that he had social engineered
that were actually fed phone numbers.

1145
01:02:13,438 --> 01:02:17,525
So basically,
he had like this invisible gate

1146
01:02:17,525 --> 01:02:21,362
that was around him for 3 to 6 cell
towers,

1147
01:02:21,362 --> 01:02:25,116
wherever, like a Fed came in the area
and was like ten miles away,

1148
01:02:25,283 --> 01:02:28,453
you would basically get an alert
on his phone, letting him know.

1149
01:02:30,121 --> 01:02:32,081
And I thought that was brilliant.

1150
01:02:32,081 --> 01:02:34,542
So I was like, How can I replicate that?

1151
01:02:34,792 --> 01:02:36,878
You know, I'm
definitely not a phone freak.

1152
01:02:37,170 --> 01:02:38,588
I'm not Kevin Mitnick.

1153
01:02:38,588 --> 01:02:42,133
You know, I,
I don't even like I don't know,

1154
01:02:42,133 --> 01:02:44,510
I don't even like talking to people,
you know, never mind.

1155
01:02:44,510 --> 01:02:46,471
Like social engineering.

1156
01:02:46,471 --> 01:02:48,848
I'm so I do I accomplish that.

1157
01:02:48,848 --> 01:02:51,476
And so, like, I cracked this, this,
you know, this Wi-Fi.

1158
01:02:51,726 --> 01:02:56,814
And with the arguing, I could to it
from where I was up on the mountain.

1159
01:02:56,981 --> 01:02:59,609
But more importantly, I could see it

1160
01:02:59,859 --> 01:03:04,197
so I could see this house
from up on that location.

1161
01:03:04,363 --> 01:03:08,618
And because I could see it, I was like,
okay, this is my early warning system.

1162
01:03:08,826 --> 01:03:10,453
Like, you know, they had this

1163
01:03:10,453 --> 01:03:14,123
the kind of like that running
joke of like, Oh, the feds drive SUVs.

1164
01:03:14,373 --> 01:03:18,127
And like, as someone, you know, they
sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

1165
01:03:18,127 --> 01:03:22,256
But you can't really tell, you know,
but like, one thing you can tell is

1166
01:03:22,465 --> 01:03:25,843
if you see 30 cars pulled up on the grass

1167
01:03:26,594 --> 01:03:30,848
and they're pulled up all messed up,
they're probably not there for a barbecue.

1168
01:03:30,848 --> 01:03:31,265
You know,

1169
01:03:32,725 --> 01:03:33,518
it's probably a raid.

1170
01:03:33,518 --> 01:03:37,063
So, like, you know, with that in mind
and I was like,

1171
01:03:37,063 --> 01:03:38,981
that's true,
because that's how they rated me.

1172
01:03:38,981 --> 01:03:43,236
But so with that in mind, I was like,
This is my early warning system.

1173
01:03:43,236 --> 01:03:45,488
If this guy

1174
01:03:45,613 --> 01:03:49,033
gets raided,
first off, then, you know, he's good.

1175
01:03:49,408 --> 01:03:52,954
I mean, they probably won't find anything,
you know?

1176
01:03:54,372 --> 01:03:57,291
But second off, like when I see that,
I know to clean house,

1177
01:03:57,667 --> 01:04:02,630
you know, I know to grab all the drugs
I have and go dump them in a river,

1178
01:04:03,005 --> 01:04:06,217
you know, and get rid of everything.

1179
01:04:08,386 --> 01:04:10,805
And that was kind of like my
my early warning system,

1180
01:04:10,805 --> 01:04:13,516
you know, with that with their yagi
and basically a yagi,

1181
01:04:14,225 --> 01:04:17,645
like you have an omnidirectional antenna,
which is an antenna that picks up

1182
01:04:17,645 --> 01:04:21,482
wi fi all around
you like a sphere, like at 360.

1183
01:04:21,732 --> 01:04:22,358
And then

1184
01:04:23,943 --> 01:04:24,318
you have a

1185
01:04:24,318 --> 01:04:28,406
parabolic antenna, which is kind of
like a shotgun blast where like you shoot

1186
01:04:28,406 --> 01:04:32,994
a shotgun, spreads out and then a Yagi is
kind of like a sniper rifle.

1187
01:04:33,870 --> 01:04:36,038
So that's
that was the difference between those.

1188
01:04:36,038 --> 01:04:39,667
And that's why, like with a Yagi antenna,
I was able to get the range

1189
01:04:40,126 --> 01:04:42,420
that I got with Wifr.

1190
01:04:42,879 --> 01:04:43,546
Yeah, for sure.

1191
01:04:43,546 --> 01:04:46,632
They can go pretty far if

1192
01:04:46,632 --> 01:04:49,677
okay, so you got on the internet

1193
01:04:49,677 --> 01:04:51,888
at that way or step one on the internet

1194
01:04:53,014 --> 01:04:57,101
and then existing ex the thing tor
and getting on to these websites,

1195
01:04:57,226 --> 01:05:00,479
were there any other,
you know, additional uptake that you did.

1196
01:05:01,272 --> 01:05:04,275
So I had, you know, I had tails

1197
01:05:04,275 --> 01:05:07,028
and like initially
I didn't have tales initially

1198
01:05:07,028 --> 01:05:10,823
I had a bunch to which I preferred
I had a buncha

1199
01:05:11,073 --> 01:05:12,909
on the actual computer.

1200
01:05:12,909 --> 01:05:18,205
And then I had tales on a flash drive that
was pretty much how I tended to operate.

1201
01:05:19,332 --> 01:05:19,707
Again,

1202
01:05:19,707 --> 01:05:22,960
like I do, I would do regular
perimeter checks.

1203
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:25,713
So like, you know, pray for a day.

1204
01:05:25,713 --> 01:05:29,467
I would walk around, I would look through
almost every window in the house

1205
01:05:29,467 --> 01:05:32,303
and just kind of look at
what was going on outside, you know,

1206
01:05:32,428 --> 01:05:34,430
was there a car parked down
the street? Was it?

1207
01:05:34,597 --> 01:05:38,100
And there were times where,
like I saw a car parked down the street.

1208
01:05:38,434 --> 01:05:42,104
And what's interesting is,
just like in my discovery,

1209
01:05:42,104 --> 01:05:48,069
like one of the pictures I have
they took is of my house with snow on it.

1210
01:05:48,486 --> 01:05:52,782
And like you can barely see a figure
in the window.

1211
01:05:52,782 --> 01:05:53,574
And I'm like,

1212
01:05:53,574 --> 01:05:57,495
I always wondered, like, was that me
doing my doing my security rounds?

1213
01:05:57,495 --> 01:05:58,120
Because like,

1214
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:01,666
I remember seeing a car parked
about where the picture was taken from.

1215
01:06:01,666 --> 01:06:02,083
So like.

1216
01:06:04,335 --> 01:06:06,212
Yeah, there's a description.

1217
01:06:06,212 --> 01:06:06,712
Yeah, there's,

1218
01:06:06,712 --> 01:06:10,007
so there's, but there's aside from that,
like, yeah, there's a ton of stuff like

1219
01:06:10,841 --> 01:06:13,094
I didn't have,
like I didn't have a cell phone

1220
01:06:14,428 --> 01:06:16,806
and like, you know, if you've watched

1221
01:06:16,806 --> 01:06:21,769
a good amount of def con, you know, talks
like I wouldn't have a cell phone

1222
01:06:21,894 --> 01:06:25,314
and I wouldn't like
if you had a cell phone you like, you

1223
01:06:25,690 --> 01:06:29,443
somehow knew me and I like,
knew you well enough where I trusted

1224
01:06:29,443 --> 01:06:33,531
you enough to come to my house
like your cell phone stays in the car.

1225
01:06:34,448 --> 01:06:35,324
You know,

1226
01:06:36,784 --> 01:06:39,537
my wife, who

1227
01:06:39,537 --> 01:06:41,998
is an amazing person, she ended up.

1228
01:06:41,998 --> 01:06:45,751
She got with me
like we've been talking for a while, but,

1229
01:06:47,712 --> 01:06:48,963
like, we ended up.

1230
01:06:48,963 --> 01:06:52,008
We ended up falling in love
kind of that old school hacker way.

1231
01:06:52,008 --> 01:06:54,760
We're like,
But for us, it was on the phone.

1232
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:58,305
So we had talked a lot
and we had fell in love on the phone.

1233
01:06:59,056 --> 01:07:02,143
And like with her, Glenn,

1234
01:07:03,561 --> 01:07:04,145
when I got

1235
01:07:04,145 --> 01:07:06,856
indicted, I told her I was like,
you know, I got indicted and.

1236
01:07:07,606 --> 01:07:11,527
I got ten counts and each count
as like a maximum of 20 years.

1237
01:07:11,986 --> 01:07:14,655
You know, I was like, you know, like,
we can be friends, but like,

1238
01:07:15,197 --> 01:07:19,035
we're not getting married, you know, like,
I'm not going to waste your life.

1239
01:07:19,326 --> 01:07:21,037
You know, I'm going to be in prison
for the rest.

1240
01:07:21,037 --> 01:07:24,040
And like, it's not how feds work at all,
but it's a it's a

1241
01:07:24,707 --> 01:07:26,333
another topic.

1242
01:07:27,918 --> 01:07:28,878
Again, I get off sobbing.

1243
01:07:28,878 --> 01:07:30,337
And what would you would you ask me?

1244
01:07:30,337 --> 01:07:33,132
Yeah. So you were using tails.

1245
01:07:33,132 --> 01:07:34,717
So here's the question. I r right.

1246
01:07:34,717 --> 01:07:38,596
So if you, if you load up tails, is it
fresh like in the morning

1247
01:07:38,596 --> 01:07:44,060
and then you have to PDP key
so and your bitcoin private address

1248
01:07:44,060 --> 01:07:48,314
like all this stuff if takes extra work
to get back into tails.

1249
01:07:48,314 --> 01:07:50,816
Right. It takes the whole like hour
is the set up.

1250
01:07:50,816 --> 01:07:54,487
I have to be able to even log in
to the website.

1251
01:07:54,487 --> 01:07:56,781
So how, what's the
what's the status there?

1252
01:07:56,781 --> 01:07:58,407
There's not always something
I don't understand.

1253
01:07:58,407 --> 01:08:00,576
So, you know, external.

1254
01:08:00,576 --> 01:08:01,535
So I would just have a

1255
01:08:01,535 --> 01:08:04,538
I would have my, my flash drive
that I would always keep on me

1256
01:08:04,789 --> 01:08:09,585
and I kept it on me
because I also had like, you know,

1257
01:08:09,585 --> 01:08:13,422
first off, you have to, you know, figure
I'm I'm, I'm, I'm a moonshiner. So,

1258
01:08:15,841 --> 01:08:16,884
you know, I,

1259
01:08:16,884 --> 01:08:19,428
I there's, there's 170 proof alcohol

1260
01:08:19,637 --> 01:08:21,639
around me all the time. So,

1261
01:08:22,723 --> 01:08:25,059
like, it's possible for me at any time to,

1262
01:08:25,935 --> 01:08:30,314
you know, take this flash drive
out of my pocket or 170 proof alcohol on

1263
01:08:30,314 --> 01:08:33,818
and light it and hopefully melted
to a point where it can't be recovered.

1264
01:08:35,111 --> 01:08:38,030
But really, obviously,
that's hard to guarantee.

1265
01:08:38,030 --> 01:08:40,658
You know,
as I gave thermite sitting around,

1266
01:08:41,534 --> 01:08:45,079
even though that was an idea of mine
at one point um

1267
01:08:46,580 --> 01:08:48,749
this like, you know, magnesium strips.

1268
01:08:48,749 --> 01:08:50,084
All right. Okay. Okay.

1269
01:08:50,084 --> 01:08:52,503
This makes sense, though.

1270
01:08:53,170 --> 01:08:56,674
You've got a way to dispose of it
if you need to.

1271
01:08:56,674 --> 01:08:58,843
And you've got an early warning system.
I'm like, in this.

1272
01:08:59,468 --> 01:08:59,927
This.

1273
01:09:00,261 --> 01:09:02,680
This satisfies me for getting on the site.

1274
01:09:05,015 --> 01:09:05,975
And clearly,

1275
01:09:05,975 --> 01:09:09,145
you have completely alternate
personas from, you know, who you are

1276
01:09:09,145 --> 01:09:13,357
because you learn from other people's
using their Gmail address that up.

1277
01:09:13,357 --> 01:09:17,361
So you've got your own email address,
probably one of these more secure

1278
01:09:17,361 --> 01:09:20,406
email providers. No,
no email address. Okay.

1279
01:09:20,406 --> 01:09:21,490
You don't need it for anything.

1280
01:09:21,490 --> 01:09:21,866
Yeah.

1281
01:09:21,866 --> 01:09:24,577
No, I mean, the only communication
that you're going to be doing

1282
01:09:24,785 --> 01:09:29,373
is on Darknet forums, and that's all
with a signed BGP key anyways.

1283
01:09:29,540 --> 01:09:31,876
So there's really no reason

1284
01:09:32,626 --> 01:09:34,920
for you to have an email address.

1285
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:36,839
I had an email address later on

1286
01:09:38,048 --> 01:09:40,467
and I want to say it was proton,

1287
01:09:40,467 --> 01:09:43,095
but that was very completely different
alias

1288
01:09:43,345 --> 01:09:45,514
that I used for cashing out bitcoin.

1289
01:09:47,224 --> 01:09:50,644
Okay, got it. So,

1290
01:09:50,769 --> 01:09:53,105
so now,
now we could talk about packages, right.

1291
01:09:53,105 --> 01:09:57,610
So what was the, what was kind of
your research that you did to figure out

1292
01:09:58,652 --> 01:10:00,529
how to package this stuff up?

1293
01:10:00,529 --> 01:10:03,741
So there was actually there's a lot of
turns out

1294
01:10:03,741 --> 01:10:06,493
there's a lot of interesting stuff
on YouTube

1295
01:10:07,661 --> 01:10:08,621
that I had found.

1296
01:10:08,621 --> 01:10:11,165
One, I think I want to see the name
of one of the videos.

1297
01:10:11,498 --> 01:10:13,959
So there is an ex-cop.

1298
01:10:13,959 --> 01:10:17,755
So like 99% of this stuff

1299
01:10:17,755 --> 01:10:21,508
you're not going to find on the clear
like OPSEC for the darknet.

1300
01:10:21,717 --> 01:10:24,803
You really don't see a
lot of this discussed on the.

1301
01:10:27,848 --> 01:10:28,891
So with that

1302
01:10:28,891 --> 01:10:32,895
said, one of the things that I found
interesting that is about that

1303
01:10:32,937 --> 01:10:36,523
a lot of the stuff you talked
about was absolutely applicable

1304
01:10:38,525 --> 01:10:40,778
was a guy who made a

1305
01:10:40,945 --> 01:10:44,615
he made three different movies
and you can find them for free on YouTube.

1306
01:10:45,157 --> 01:10:47,201
And I remember one of was called

1307
01:10:48,285 --> 01:10:51,705
Never Get Raided Again.

1308
01:10:51,956 --> 01:10:55,876
And basically he was
he was a narcotics officer.

1309
01:10:56,085 --> 01:10:59,046
This guy was a top
narcotics officer in the country.

1310
01:10:59,463 --> 01:11:03,467
And like he had raided
he had raided homes.

1311
01:11:03,467 --> 01:11:08,722
He had like, you know, like he might raid
the home of a guy who's growing cannabis.

1312
01:11:08,722 --> 01:11:09,348
Right.

1313
01:11:09,348 --> 01:11:12,393
And, you know, back in the nineties

1314
01:11:12,393 --> 01:11:14,979
or in the early 2000,
and they give this guy like,

1315
01:11:15,688 --> 01:11:19,149
you know, 20 years,
you know, for growing weed and like

1316
01:11:20,442 --> 01:11:22,486
this top narcotics officer,

1317
01:11:23,279 --> 01:11:27,032
like, looked at it and he was like,
you know, this guy didn't hurt anyone.

1318
01:11:27,658 --> 01:11:29,326
There's no victim.

1319
01:11:29,326 --> 01:11:30,035
This stuff.

1320
01:11:30,035 --> 01:11:32,204
Like no one's ever died from cannabis.

1321
01:11:32,538 --> 01:11:35,207
It's a schedule one drug. It's federally.

1322
01:11:35,207 --> 01:11:39,545
It's it's on the same level as heroin,
you know, But no one's ever died from it.

1323
01:11:40,546 --> 01:11:44,425
And he's like, you know, this guy is now
he's this guy doing, you know, 25 years.

1324
01:11:44,675 --> 01:11:48,095
His family's completely broken apart
for what

1325
01:11:49,096 --> 01:11:51,432
he grew up a plant, you know.

1326
01:11:51,432 --> 01:11:55,477
So he basically he walked away
from being a police officer.

1327
01:11:56,395 --> 01:11:58,814
And again, he was a top narcotics officer.

1328
01:11:58,814 --> 01:12:01,817
He walked away from there
and he ended up making these videos.

1329
01:12:02,026 --> 01:12:06,989
And in them, he broke down a lot of the
intelligence that law enforcement uses

1330
01:12:07,364 --> 01:12:12,369
for finding, locating and apprehending
drug traffickers.

1331
01:12:12,369 --> 01:12:16,457
So there was some of the little things
that he would talk about, like

1332
01:12:18,542 --> 01:12:20,627
you're following your car as a cop

1333
01:12:20,627 --> 01:12:23,088
and you see on the back
left of the windshield,

1334
01:12:23,464 --> 01:12:28,427
this guy has four stickers where
he donates to the police organization.

1335
01:12:28,510 --> 01:12:31,597
And for him, that was a red flag.

1336
01:12:31,889 --> 01:12:35,142
Like, why do you donate to the police
organization?

1337
01:12:35,142 --> 01:12:38,354
You know, I read like like
because a lot of people do it thinking.

1338
01:12:38,354 --> 01:12:40,814
They're going to get out of the ticket
or the cops not going to pull them over.

1339
01:12:40,981 --> 01:12:41,982
So those kind of things, yeah.

1340
01:12:41,982 --> 01:12:45,069
The things you would be looking for
would be like, you know, a car

1341
01:12:45,402 --> 01:12:47,946
traveling
and another car is traveling behind it.

1342
01:12:48,322 --> 01:12:51,492
But like the car that's traveling
behind it, maybe it's two or three

1343
01:12:51,700 --> 01:12:53,327
car lengths in back of it.

1344
01:12:53,327 --> 01:12:56,080
But what we see is when the lead car

1345
01:12:56,205 --> 01:12:59,375
switches a lane on the highway,
the follow car,

1346
01:12:59,375 --> 01:13:03,420
that's two or three cars behind
it goes in and goes into the same lane.

1347
01:13:03,796 --> 01:13:08,258
And we're watching these cars
follow each other throughout these lanes

1348
01:13:08,467 --> 01:13:12,429
and they can say, okay,
so the front car is probably

1349
01:13:12,805 --> 01:13:16,266
the drug addict who the drug traffickers
paid,

1350
01:13:16,642 --> 01:13:21,688
you know, 400 bucks to drive
five keys, a blow in the trunk,

1351
01:13:22,022 --> 01:13:24,983
you know, to Maryland
and the guys in the back,

1352
01:13:24,983 --> 01:13:28,570
the follow car are the drug traffickers
that are paying them.

1353
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:32,032
They're showing these little

1354
01:13:32,032 --> 01:13:36,495
subtle patterns that they would pick up on
for things like that.

1355
01:13:36,495 --> 01:13:40,457
Then you have things like, you know, law
enforcement, which is completely illegal.

1356
01:13:40,457 --> 01:13:44,461
But they you know, they do it
anyways, is grabbing a flower camera

1357
01:13:45,129 --> 01:13:48,465
and blur stands for forward
looking infrared.

1358
01:13:49,299 --> 01:13:53,303
So a flower camera is basically
if I pointed

1359
01:13:53,929 --> 01:13:57,015
at like your house, like let's say
you just got home,

1360
01:13:57,182 --> 01:14:01,478
you park your car, you go inside,
I pull up with a flower camcorder.

1361
01:14:01,603 --> 01:14:03,981
I pointed at your house and I look at it,

1362
01:14:05,441 --> 01:14:08,735
the things that are
the coldest will be the darkest.

1363
01:14:08,735 --> 01:14:10,112
So, for example,

1364
01:14:10,112 --> 01:14:13,407
if there's snow on the ground,
the snow will appear to be black, right?

1365
01:14:14,116 --> 01:14:17,244
Your exhaust pipe will appear to be white
because it will be brought.

1366
01:14:18,328 --> 01:14:18,829
So but

1367
01:14:18,829 --> 01:14:22,249
with that flare camera,
if I pointed at your house, I can see,

1368
01:14:23,500 --> 01:14:25,627
you know,
it's like I was the best way to put it.

1369
01:14:25,627 --> 01:14:31,008
So if you you know, you can't see
he with the human eye, right.

1370
01:14:31,049 --> 01:14:32,551
It's invisible.

1371
01:14:32,926 --> 01:14:35,804
But if you look at a wood,
if you have a woodstove

1372
01:14:36,221 --> 01:14:39,766
and the sun's hitting the woodstove
and you look at the shadow

1373
01:14:39,766 --> 01:14:43,812
behind the wood stove, all of a sudden
now you can see ripples.

1374
01:14:44,062 --> 01:14:47,357
It's like looking at pavement
and seeing ripples.

1375
01:14:47,357 --> 01:14:51,403
You're seeing the heat bend the light
and now you can see heat.

1376
01:14:51,695 --> 01:14:55,782
You see those
those invisible rays coming up.

1377
01:14:55,782 --> 01:14:58,160
I don't know the technical term for it is,
but you could see

1378
01:14:58,327 --> 01:14:59,203
you could see the heat.

1379
01:14:59,203 --> 01:15:02,206
So with a flare camera,
it makes it so you can literally see them.

1380
01:15:03,624 --> 01:15:04,333
And if

1381
01:15:04,333 --> 01:15:07,085
you're if you have like a grow up,
like you're growing weed,

1382
01:15:07,461 --> 01:15:10,589
a lot of people will just hook up of then

1383
01:15:11,256 --> 01:15:13,467
like so the light that

1384
01:15:14,593 --> 01:15:18,055
lights up your flowering room
typically is like a high pressure

1385
01:15:18,055 --> 01:15:21,975
sodium light
and it gets very, very, very hot.

1386
01:15:22,226 --> 01:15:27,231
And if you don't ventilate it
with an inline fan, it'll catch fire.

1387
01:15:28,023 --> 01:15:31,902
So a lot of growers
hook up these inline fans

1388
01:15:31,902 --> 01:15:34,905
and then they'll pump that hot
air outside.

1389
01:15:35,197 --> 01:15:38,534
So if I drive past your house
and I look at it with a flare camera

1390
01:15:39,201 --> 01:15:41,912
and I see hot air being pumped outside,

1391
01:15:42,371 --> 01:15:44,289
I can be like, All right,

1392
01:15:45,290 --> 01:15:47,292
you know, maybe you're just doing laundry.

1393
01:15:47,334 --> 01:15:49,753
I do it again the next day.
I do it again the next day.

1394
01:15:50,170 --> 01:15:53,048
Now, I came by your place four times.

1395
01:15:53,048 --> 01:15:53,840
I will do your please.

1396
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:58,095
Four times this for camera again,
totally illegal, but they do it anyway.

1397
01:15:59,930 --> 01:16:02,474
Now I see every time I come through

1398
01:16:02,849 --> 01:16:06,270
hot air is being pumped out of your house.

1399
01:16:07,104 --> 01:16:09,731
So what I do is
I turn around as law enforcement,

1400
01:16:09,731 --> 01:16:11,858
they turn around
and they pull your electrical records

1401
01:16:12,818 --> 01:16:16,572
and they see that you have spikes
in your electrical usage for 12 hours

1402
01:16:16,572 --> 01:16:20,284
a day, which is the same flowering period
as cannabis. You

1403
01:16:22,327 --> 01:16:24,288
they start putting all these little things
together.

1404
01:16:24,288 --> 01:16:27,249
Now we're going to pull your purchases
and we see that you bought

1405
01:16:27,499 --> 01:16:30,460
$600 worth of nutrients from Amazon.

1406
01:16:31,211 --> 01:16:33,797
We see that you bought ten submersible
pumps.

1407
01:16:34,172 --> 01:16:37,301
You I mean, it's a pretty safe
bet that you're growing hydroponics.

1408
01:16:37,426 --> 01:16:41,179
And like after a while,
they can build up on this

1409
01:16:41,555 --> 01:16:43,599
until the point where they have

1410
01:16:43,599 --> 01:16:46,685
enough reasonable suspicion
that it turns it into probable cause.

1411
01:16:46,893 --> 01:16:48,103
And then once they have that,

1412
01:16:48,103 --> 01:16:51,315
they have the ability
to go apply for a search warrant raid, you

1413
01:16:51,315 --> 01:16:54,318
and again, all of this
started with something illegal.

1414
01:16:55,986 --> 01:16:57,988
And I'm pointing this is where a camera.

1415
01:16:57,988 --> 01:16:59,740
Barry Cooper Right.

1416
01:16:59,740 --> 01:17:03,535
That's Barry
Cooper is the guy who made those videos.

1417
01:17:03,785 --> 01:17:05,037
Don't ever get busted.

1418
01:17:05,037 --> 01:17:06,788
That could be a mirror.

1419
01:17:06,788 --> 01:17:08,957
I don't know. He's
I don't want to tell you the wrong name.

1420
01:17:08,957 --> 01:17:11,376
If you look it up, you'll see it.

1421
01:17:11,376 --> 01:17:12,044
All right.

1422
01:17:12,044 --> 01:17:13,670
Um, yeah.

1423
01:17:13,670 --> 01:17:16,632
So I was hoping you'd tell me story about

1424
01:17:16,632 --> 01:17:20,093
trying to figure out what the what
the cops think is a suspicious package.

1425
01:17:20,427 --> 01:17:21,261
Yeah, So.

1426
01:17:21,261 --> 01:17:26,558
So just real quick, Show the show him
that guy with.

1427
01:17:26,767 --> 01:17:31,146
With his kind of view
on narcotics officers

1428
01:17:31,146 --> 01:17:33,649
and what they look
for was really insightful.

1429
01:17:33,857 --> 01:17:37,235
Then the other place that I think
is the best source of information

1430
01:17:37,569 --> 01:17:41,657
was on the Darknet itself
just by like, it's like, you know,

1431
01:17:41,907 --> 01:17:47,079
if you don't know Spanish,
but you watch Telemundo for 45000

1432
01:17:47,079 --> 01:17:50,791
hours,
you're going to know Spanish, right?

1433
01:17:51,416 --> 01:17:53,043
So it's osmosis.

1434
01:17:53,043 --> 01:17:54,753
You kind of learn it by osmosis.

1435
01:17:54,753 --> 01:17:58,715
And like a lot of the stuff
I learned the specifics about packaging

1436
01:17:58,715 --> 01:18:04,262
and stuff like that was learned through
this process of osmosis on the darknet,

1437
01:18:04,596 --> 01:18:09,226
reading on forums and and seeing
what people say, what people say,

1438
01:18:09,434 --> 01:18:14,231
and the point of views that people have
and kind of taking all of that in and like

1439
01:18:14,773 --> 01:18:19,361
like Bruce, Bruce Lee says, take in
what's useful and discard what's not.

1440
01:18:19,861 --> 01:18:22,739
That's kind of at the end of the day,
like if your

1441
01:18:23,532 --> 01:18:25,909
you know, if you're looking at making,
you know,

1442
01:18:26,702 --> 01:18:30,789
a forward plan for OPSEC
or a good information security policy

1443
01:18:31,998 --> 01:18:34,292
as a vendor,

1444
01:18:34,292 --> 01:18:37,129
like that's the best way to go about it
in conjunction

1445
01:18:37,129 --> 01:18:39,339
with whatever you can find

1446
01:18:40,424 --> 01:18:45,220
on the clear net in addition
to like those cases.

1447
01:18:45,220 --> 01:18:48,348
Because in those cases, you know,
you look at like Darknet news,

1448
01:18:48,348 --> 01:18:50,726
like you're going to you're going to see

1449
01:18:53,311 --> 01:18:54,187
exactly how

1450
01:18:54,187 --> 01:18:58,233
those vendors got caught,
you know, And at the end of the day,

1451
01:18:58,233 --> 01:19:01,153
like there's only again, going back
to the whole thing with law enforcement,

1452
01:19:01,486 --> 01:19:05,449
there's only so many tricks
that they have up their sleeve, Right.

1453
01:19:06,241 --> 01:19:08,577
It's like, you know, a magician

1454
01:19:08,702 --> 01:19:12,831
only has so many magic tricks,
comedian only has so many jokes.

1455
01:19:13,123 --> 01:19:16,877
You know, a football team
only has so many different plays.

1456
01:19:17,085 --> 01:19:19,337
So but if you know them all,

1457
01:19:19,337 --> 01:19:21,965
you can anticipate
what their moves are going to be.

1458
01:19:21,965 --> 01:19:25,510
And if you know how they operate, you know
what their next move is going to be.

1459
01:19:25,719 --> 01:19:27,012
And you can counteract.

1460
01:19:27,012 --> 01:19:30,891
And like that's why I think, you know,
in conjunction with kind of all that

1461
01:19:31,558 --> 01:19:35,353
kind of 21st century stuff
that we talked about from the YouTube

1462
01:19:35,353 --> 01:19:41,026
videos to the dark net information,
then go all the way back to like Sun Tzu,

1463
01:19:42,611 --> 01:19:42,944
right?

1464
01:19:42,944 --> 01:19:46,823
I mean, as hackers, you know,
you got to throw that in, you know, do.

1465
01:19:47,949 --> 01:19:49,493
Yeah, for sure.

1466
01:19:49,785 --> 01:19:50,410
There's that.

1467
01:19:50,410 --> 01:19:52,454
And then there's like, you know,

1468
01:19:54,498 --> 01:19:57,709
green are these names Allen Green
you know, the 49 laws of power

1469
01:19:57,709 --> 01:20:00,796
all those kind of things
I think are essential,

1470
01:20:00,921 --> 01:20:04,341
you know because if you know
how human beings operate but you know,

1471
01:20:04,633 --> 01:20:09,095
you know what to expect, then, you know,
you can kind of plan out

1472
01:20:09,429 --> 01:20:12,849
what's going to happen and,
you know, to the best of your ability and

1473
01:20:14,226 --> 01:20:16,436
so I'm sorry,
what was your was your other question.

1474
01:20:16,895 --> 01:20:19,189
The suspicious package.

1475
01:20:19,189 --> 01:20:20,649
It's an interesting anecdote.

1476
01:20:20,649 --> 01:20:23,109
You talked about figuring out this.

1477
01:20:23,902 --> 01:20:24,486
Yeah.

1478
01:20:24,945 --> 01:20:30,158
So what's crazy is that I didn't know
until I figured it out again.

1479
01:20:30,158 --> 01:20:33,328
And a lot of my inspiration
was Drew from a McNair book.

1480
01:20:33,578 --> 01:20:34,746
When he talks about,

1481
01:20:36,498 --> 01:20:38,583
you know, basically social engineering,

1482
01:20:38,583 --> 01:20:42,337
the operator
of the National Criminal Database

1483
01:20:43,588 --> 01:20:47,300
to run searches for him like he's
pretending to be law enforcement.

1484
01:20:48,009 --> 01:20:51,263
And because he uses the terminology
they use,

1485
01:20:51,429 --> 01:20:54,140
like I need a deck research run
on, you know,

1486
01:20:54,224 --> 01:20:58,186
because he knows that terminology deck
we like they automatically

1487
01:20:58,186 --> 01:21:02,065
assume that he's legitimate but it's only
because he's read the manual you know

1488
01:21:02,232 --> 01:21:05,944
and it kind of goes back to that
old school hacker motto of like art form,

1489
01:21:06,444 --> 01:21:07,445
you know.

1490
01:21:07,445 --> 01:21:09,614
And I think when you do that

1491
01:21:10,115 --> 01:21:12,868
for anything
you are immediately empowered.

1492
01:21:13,034 --> 01:21:17,205
It's like if you want to learn about,
you know, I want to I want to be a,

1493
01:21:17,831 --> 01:21:20,375
you know, a master of Linux,
I want to be a master Windows.

1494
01:21:20,375 --> 01:21:22,502
I want to be a master at Python.

1495
01:21:22,502 --> 01:21:25,046
Like,
you know, go grab an. O'Reilly Right.

1496
01:21:26,089 --> 01:21:28,133
Or whatever, you know, like grab,

1497
01:21:28,133 --> 01:21:31,595
grab that manual and go through it
and you're going to be, you know, way

1498
01:21:31,595 --> 01:21:35,807
more empowered than you are just hopping
on trying to figure your stuff out.

1499
01:21:35,807 --> 01:21:38,810
So like, for me, that was like the

1500
01:21:38,810 --> 01:21:42,772
the postal inspector's manual and like,
you know, their their policies

1501
01:21:42,772 --> 01:21:46,985
and practices and all of that
kind of stuff is it was public.

1502
01:21:48,069 --> 01:21:50,572
And like me going through and seeing

1503
01:21:51,156 --> 01:21:53,199
now it's like,
I know what the feds are doing,

1504
01:21:53,366 --> 01:21:55,785
but here's 50
other things they could be doing.

1505
01:21:56,161 --> 01:22:00,165
But they're not you know,
they're just not smart enough to see this.

1506
01:22:00,206 --> 01:22:00,957
You know.

1507
01:22:00,957 --> 01:22:03,543
But like, I'm planning for my adversary.

1508
01:22:03,543 --> 01:22:07,714
So, like, I'm looking at things
that they might do and like, you know,

1509
01:22:07,756 --> 01:22:14,054
a lot of stuff in there, like they make it
so that they can classify any package

1510
01:22:15,013 --> 01:22:17,140
as suspicious, right?

1511
01:22:17,140 --> 01:22:19,601
So like,
they'll classify something as suspicious.

1512
01:22:19,601 --> 01:22:22,604
But you have to have more than just
suspicion.

1513
01:22:22,604 --> 01:22:26,399
You know,
you have to have reasonable suspicion.

1514
01:22:26,775 --> 01:22:29,527
But in order to apply for
a search warrant, you also need probable

1515
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:32,656
coupled with that reasonable suspicion.

1516
01:22:32,656 --> 01:22:34,991
So like maybe like, you know,

1517
01:22:37,327 --> 01:22:38,411
you know, this package

1518
01:22:38,411 --> 01:22:41,122
is reasonably suspicious
because it has excessive teeth

1519
01:22:41,998 --> 01:22:45,335
and we have probable cause
because there's white powder leaking out,

1520
01:22:46,753 --> 01:22:49,297
you know, So then they would go
and apply for a search warrant

1521
01:22:49,589 --> 01:22:52,884
to open it
and, you know, probably be granted.

1522
01:22:53,134 --> 01:22:56,680
And then once it's opened
and they do like a field test on it.

1523
01:22:56,680 --> 01:22:57,847
Oh, yeah, it's Coke.

1524
01:22:57,847 --> 01:22:58,515
All right, cool.

1525
01:22:58,515 --> 01:23:00,767
Like,
now we're going to look at the videotapes.

1526
01:23:00,809 --> 01:23:03,228
If that post office has cameras

1527
01:23:04,020 --> 01:23:06,439
or we're going to pull graphics

1528
01:23:06,439 --> 01:23:07,565
and we're going to see,

1529
01:23:07,565 --> 01:23:10,360
you know, the license plates of the people
that drove around there

1530
01:23:10,735 --> 01:23:13,238
and try to match them up with the person
that shipped that package out.

1531
01:23:13,571 --> 01:23:15,407
Then they'll do surveillance on the house.

1532
01:23:15,407 --> 01:23:18,368
So like but like going back to a
you were saying, like

1533
01:23:18,868 --> 01:23:22,956
making a package safe to ship was actually
is kind of difficult

1534
01:23:22,956 --> 01:23:26,042
because they try to make it
as generic as possible

1535
01:23:26,376 --> 01:23:31,131
so that they can classify
almost any package as suspicious.

1536
01:23:31,339 --> 01:23:36,761
So like if you use quote unquote,
too much tape, what's too much tape?

1537
01:23:37,095 --> 01:23:39,014
Well, that's arbitrary. It's up to them.

1538
01:23:39,014 --> 01:23:41,099
So, like, if you use too much tape,

1539
01:23:41,099 --> 01:23:45,228
if you have a fake return address,
if you have a handwritten address,

1540
01:23:46,521 --> 01:23:49,691
if it's not an official USPS box.

1541
01:23:50,275 --> 01:23:51,776
Right. Like

1542
01:23:52,068 --> 01:23:54,904
all of these, you know,
a fraudulent return address, a fake

1543
01:23:55,238 --> 01:23:58,241
sender address, like all of these things

1544
01:23:59,117 --> 01:24:02,287
culminate to create a suspicious package

1545
01:24:02,287 --> 01:24:04,664
and then pairing them together

1546
01:24:06,291 --> 01:24:07,876
makes it so you can add up

1547
01:24:07,876 --> 01:24:13,048
these individual variables
to, you know, make it something where

1548
01:24:13,298 --> 01:24:15,884
now you can say you have probable cause

1549
01:24:16,092 --> 01:24:20,346
and plead their case to a federal judge
and hopefully give him,

1550
01:24:20,346 --> 01:24:22,724
you know,
he'll bring you a warrant to open it up.

1551
01:24:25,518 --> 01:24:26,561
So, you know, when you're

1552
01:24:26,561 --> 01:24:30,899
when you're preparing to try to fight
that, you are

1553
01:24:32,067 --> 01:24:34,819
making sure
that you're aware of all of those things

1554
01:24:35,070 --> 01:24:38,573
that they can possibly do
and you're having countermeasures to them.

1555
01:24:38,698 --> 01:24:40,617
And then you have to factor in, too, like,

1556
01:24:40,617 --> 01:24:44,454
you know, at the end of the day,
if I go print off your address

1557
01:24:45,163 --> 01:24:48,166
on a regular inkjet printer,
you have micro printing.

1558
01:24:48,458 --> 01:24:51,628
My IP
address is going to be in that that label.

1559
01:24:54,798 --> 01:24:58,718
What about which which

1560
01:24:59,094 --> 01:25:00,762
carrier to use?

1561
01:25:02,347 --> 01:25:04,265
Oh, for packages shipping.

1562
01:25:04,265 --> 01:25:07,727
Yeah, USPS only. Why?

1563
01:25:08,770 --> 01:25:10,688
Because it's run
by the federal government,

1564
01:25:10,688 --> 01:25:13,149
which means they require a warrant
to open it.

1565
01:25:14,359 --> 01:25:16,778
If you ship DHL, UPS,

1566
01:25:17,695 --> 01:25:21,658
FedEx, any of those are private companies,
they can open your package as well,

1567
01:25:21,866 --> 01:25:25,578
whereas with USPS they require a warrant

1568
01:25:26,830 --> 01:25:28,623
and they need reasonable suspicion

1569
01:25:28,623 --> 01:25:32,168
with probable cause
in order to apply for that search warrant.

1570
01:25:32,377 --> 01:25:37,048
And as a federal judge signed off on
their ability to even open that package.

1571
01:25:38,216 --> 01:25:38,591
Okay.

1572
01:25:38,591 --> 01:25:40,718
So when you're shipping these things, you

1573
01:25:42,220 --> 01:25:44,639
carrying the

1574
01:25:45,014 --> 01:25:47,684
you know, the is
is the mailman coming to your house

1575
01:25:47,684 --> 01:25:49,936
and picking these things up
and you're like, oh, go.

1576
01:25:49,936 --> 01:25:52,605
I got a whole bunch more packages
here. What's the process here?

1577
01:25:52,605 --> 01:25:55,150
And are you using a real name or what.

1578
01:25:55,150 --> 01:25:59,571
So, so the the process
for that essentially,

1579
01:26:00,446 --> 01:26:02,740
Absolutely not from the house.

1580
01:26:03,616 --> 01:26:05,827
So in the

1581
01:26:06,786 --> 01:26:07,162
in the

1582
01:26:07,162 --> 01:26:10,415
Department of Homeland Security
investigation was conducted,

1583
01:26:11,207 --> 01:26:14,460
the only thing that the Department
of Homeland Security

1584
01:26:15,378 --> 01:26:17,755
knew about me and the post

1585
01:26:17,755 --> 01:26:21,009
office knew about me

1586
01:26:21,009 --> 01:26:23,052
was that I worked with computers.

1587
01:26:25,096 --> 01:26:27,849
So by the time they actually investigated
me, the only thing

1588
01:26:27,849 --> 01:26:31,477
my local post office knew was like,
Yeah, he's a computer guy.

1589
01:26:31,686 --> 01:26:34,022
He fixes computers and works on computers.

1590
01:26:34,272 --> 01:26:39,402
And like, that's a result of good OPSEC
mixed with, you know, having a good cover.

1591
01:26:39,527 --> 01:26:41,654
And those two things
are completely different.

1592
01:26:41,654 --> 01:26:46,075
You know, with a cover,
you employ deception, right?

1593
01:26:46,618 --> 01:26:49,996
With OPSEC,
you know, So like, anyway, side issue.

1594
01:26:50,705 --> 01:26:52,916
So going back to that, sure.

1595
01:26:52,916 --> 01:26:55,418
How we would ship them is

1596
01:26:55,418 --> 01:26:57,420
initially,
I was going to ship them on myself.

1597
01:26:58,546 --> 01:27:01,758
And so I'm at this point
like I'm cultivating cannabis.

1598
01:27:02,175 --> 01:27:06,763
I'm, you know, producing shine and,
you know, I'm starting to

1599
01:27:06,804 --> 01:27:10,600
I've already at this point,
I've studied also mycology,

1600
01:27:10,934 --> 01:27:14,729
which is the art of science, of
of fungus, fungi,

1601
01:27:15,521 --> 01:27:18,483
so that I can do things like agar

1602
01:27:18,483 --> 01:27:22,987
transfers and, and practice proper
sterile technique

1603
01:27:23,488 --> 01:27:26,449
in order to cultivate
hallucinogenic mushrooms.

1604
01:27:27,909 --> 01:27:28,993
So, like,

1605
01:27:28,993 --> 01:27:32,080
as my business grows,
so does my knowledge.

1606
01:27:33,081 --> 01:27:35,083
And diversity.

1607
01:27:35,083 --> 01:27:39,796
You know, my, my portfolio
constantly evolves in different things.

1608
01:27:41,005 --> 01:27:45,176
And typically those things
come from intellectual stimuli, right?

1609
01:27:45,551 --> 01:27:48,054
So learning
how to be when you are bonding,

1610
01:27:48,554 --> 01:27:51,099
learning about distillation,

1611
01:27:51,099 --> 01:27:53,309
you know, learning about, you know,

1612
01:27:54,936 --> 01:27:57,522
sterile technique,
all those kind of things.

1613
01:27:57,522 --> 01:27:59,774
But so as things evolve,

1614
01:28:00,733 --> 01:28:03,611
I don't have time to ship packages.

1615
01:28:03,861 --> 01:28:08,491
So I had reached out to my cousin
and they talk about this.

1616
01:28:08,700 --> 01:28:10,660
She was indicted too.

1617
01:28:10,660 --> 01:28:12,870
So it's all a matter of public record.

1618
01:28:13,121 --> 01:28:17,000
None of it's secret,
But so I contacted my cousin

1619
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:20,211
who at the time of the island,
and she worked in a dead end job.

1620
01:28:20,586 --> 01:28:24,007
And I said, Hey, listen, like, you know,
I got a plan.

1621
01:28:24,340 --> 01:28:27,593
Do you want to come up for a weekend
and I'll talk to you about it?

1622
01:28:27,593 --> 01:28:31,472
And she drove up that weekend
and I told her, you know something, I'm

1623
01:28:31,472 --> 01:28:35,893
not to talk about selling drugs
on the Internet over the phone now.

1624
01:28:36,769 --> 01:28:37,061
Yeah.

1625
01:28:38,688 --> 01:28:41,774
I might as well just ahead of,
you know, call the NSA and let.

1626
01:28:41,774 --> 01:28:43,192
Them know, you know.

1627
01:28:43,693 --> 01:28:46,404
But again,
that's that's kind of a fallacy, too,

1628
01:28:46,571 --> 01:28:51,784
because I really have in my my,
you know, research, I've never seen

1629
01:28:51,784 --> 01:28:55,747
really intelligence agencies
cooperating with law enforcement.

1630
01:28:55,997 --> 01:29:00,126
You know, they I just
I've never seen like the NSA contact

1631
01:29:00,126 --> 01:29:04,547
the FBI or the DEA or the ATF for the
the Department of Homeland Security.

1632
01:29:04,547 --> 01:29:06,299
Like, hey, you know this guy.

1633
01:29:06,299 --> 01:29:11,596
So and panels, we you you know, like,
they just don't care how the really don't

1634
01:29:11,596 --> 01:29:13,931
seem to care about anything
except for data collection.

1635
01:29:15,433 --> 01:29:18,311
So anyways going back to the story

1636
01:29:18,311 --> 01:29:22,690
and so I told her about it and I said
listen like how it'll be is like

1637
01:29:23,232 --> 01:29:28,029
I will pay you a, you know,
a certain percentage, 5% or whatever.

1638
01:29:28,029 --> 01:29:32,367
I'm shipping out 5% of that profit
margin that that package is yours

1639
01:29:33,701 --> 01:29:34,994
plus a standard fee.

1640
01:29:34,994 --> 01:29:38,039
We'll do like $5 a package
plus the percentage

1641
01:29:38,414 --> 01:29:42,251
plus gas money
all the expenses, car payments.

1642
01:29:42,877 --> 01:29:44,462
And we had a spare bedroom.

1643
01:29:44,462 --> 01:29:46,631
So she if she wanted,
she could live there.

1644
01:29:47,215 --> 01:29:50,093
So she had you very well taken care.

1645
01:29:51,177 --> 01:29:53,888
Plus like,
you know, unlimited alcohol, moonshine,

1646
01:29:54,097 --> 01:29:58,601
weed, shrooms, ecstasy, acid,
like basically whatever you want.

1647
01:29:59,268 --> 01:30:01,687
You could take, you know.

1648
01:30:02,355 --> 01:30:05,400
So that was kind of the arrangement
that I had.

1649
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:08,736
And then she would go
and I would in the morning,

1650
01:30:09,278 --> 01:30:11,531
I would wake up, I would check my orders,

1651
01:30:11,906 --> 01:30:16,160
I would print out
addresses on thermal labels

1652
01:30:16,452 --> 01:30:20,373
because thermal labels don't use
micro printing, which means my IP

1653
01:30:20,373 --> 01:30:22,959
address won't be on that label.

1654
01:30:24,377 --> 01:30:25,711
I explain that.

1655
01:30:25,711 --> 01:30:27,713
So if I print out

1656
01:30:28,172 --> 01:30:30,967
if I print out on an envelope right now.

1657
01:30:30,967 --> 01:30:34,220
To send you a letter with micro printing

1658
01:30:35,054 --> 01:30:38,015
bill,
your printer will put your IP address

1659
01:30:39,475 --> 01:30:40,476
into that text.

1660
01:30:40,476 --> 01:30:41,769
You won't see it.

1661
01:30:41,769 --> 01:30:43,479
You have to zoom in,

1662
01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:46,649
but you have a thing called micro printing
and it's a security thing.

1663
01:30:46,983 --> 01:30:51,112
Well, like if I kidnap you and
I send a ransom note and I printed it out

1664
01:30:51,112 --> 01:30:56,075
with a printer, like they can see
the IP address inside of the text

1665
01:30:56,742 --> 01:30:59,620
that the printer used to print. Wow.

1666
01:31:00,163 --> 01:31:03,458
So when you're going to share, like
this is kind of the level

1667
01:31:04,333 --> 01:31:08,296
that you're looking at, you know,
as far as like operational security.

1668
01:31:08,296 --> 01:31:13,426
So for me, I would
I bought a thermal printer

1669
01:31:13,551 --> 01:31:15,928
because with a thermal printer
it doesn't use ink.

1670
01:31:17,138 --> 01:31:19,390
It basically just comes in strips

1671
01:31:19,807 --> 01:31:23,186
and it prints, but it doesn't use ink.

1672
01:31:23,186 --> 01:31:28,316
It uses thermal paper
and there's no micro printing with those.

1673
01:31:28,691 --> 01:31:31,694
So in the morning
I would wake up, I would print out

1674
01:31:33,070 --> 01:31:35,323
like, let's say I'm sending you,

1675
01:31:35,323 --> 01:31:38,784
you know, half a pound a week,
I print out your address.

1676
01:31:39,535 --> 01:31:43,372
And on the back of it
I write half about a week.

1677
01:31:44,832 --> 01:31:47,877
So I throw it into like a little bucket
that I have.

1678
01:31:48,628 --> 01:31:54,217
Then I go upstairs and each bucket
is organized for each drug.

1679
01:31:54,592 --> 01:31:57,220
So I know when I go to access my cannabis

1680
01:31:57,887 --> 01:32:02,475
and package my cannabis and packaging
all my cannabis orders for the day.

1681
01:32:03,142 --> 01:32:05,353
And what I do is I pick it up.

1682
01:32:05,353 --> 01:32:06,854
I see. Okay.

1683
01:32:06,854 --> 01:32:09,398
Uh, you know here is, you know,

1684
01:32:09,815 --> 01:32:12,443
here's Jack's name and his address.

1685
01:32:12,944 --> 01:32:13,861
What's Jack ordering?

1686
01:32:13,861 --> 01:32:17,281
And you flip it over half a pound a week,
a package up a half a pound, a weed.

1687
01:32:17,615 --> 01:32:20,243
I have a blue shield up in my clean room.

1688
01:32:22,203 --> 01:32:24,914
Usually
I have it sealed up in my clean room

1689
01:32:26,123 --> 01:32:28,334
and I package it.

1690
01:32:28,334 --> 01:32:31,546
I have, you know, my fake
return addresses.

1691
01:32:31,921 --> 01:32:34,882
Slap it on there, Then I peel it off

1692
01:32:36,050 --> 01:32:38,678
and I slap your

1693
01:32:38,678 --> 01:32:40,680
destination address on that box.

1694
01:32:40,972 --> 01:32:45,101
And I throw away the back side
of the label, which says half a pound.

1695
01:32:45,768 --> 01:32:48,479
So now you are guaranteed

1696
01:32:48,479 --> 01:32:51,107
to get the product that you ordered,

1697
01:32:51,607 --> 01:32:53,609
but I know you're not going to be send

1698
01:32:53,609 --> 01:32:55,486
the wrong item.

1699
01:32:57,738 --> 01:33:02,743
And like I know
like made my printings on point.

1700
01:33:02,743 --> 01:33:06,789
So like you can, you know,
with, with sending out a package example

1701
01:33:07,873 --> 01:33:11,377
if your fingerprints
are on the outside of a package.

1702
01:33:11,711 --> 01:33:14,255
So like one of the things my cousin
was concerned about, she was like,

1703
01:33:14,505 --> 01:33:18,718
if I'm sending out these packages
and like the FBI fingerprints them,

1704
01:33:18,926 --> 01:33:23,306
they'll see my fingerprints
as it gets through as a force.

1705
01:33:23,556 --> 01:33:25,016
That's true. Yeah.

1706
01:33:25,016 --> 01:33:27,518
And she was like,
well you know, like, that's

1707
01:33:28,811 --> 01:33:30,229
kind of an issue, right?

1708
01:33:30,229 --> 01:33:32,023
I was like, no,
because at the end of the day,

1709
01:33:32,023 --> 01:33:35,401
if you're at the post office
and you touch a box,

1710
01:33:36,611 --> 01:33:39,280
you have
you still have plausible deniability.

1711
01:33:40,448 --> 01:33:42,450
Right now, if your fingerprints

1712
01:33:42,450 --> 01:33:45,911
are inside
one of those, you know, the plastic

1713
01:33:46,495 --> 01:33:49,332
and seals the drugs
or on the inside of the box,

1714
01:33:50,499 --> 01:33:52,418
not so much.

1715
01:33:52,418 --> 01:33:54,587
So for me,

1716
01:33:54,587 --> 01:33:57,840
I would seal the package because I'm
working with it on the inside of it.

1717
01:33:58,215 --> 01:34:01,093
I would seal it and I would have like,
you know,

1718
01:34:01,344 --> 01:34:05,097
two or three pairs of latex gloves on.

1719
01:34:05,097 --> 01:34:07,058
And I had a shorter beard at the time.

1720
01:34:07,058 --> 01:34:09,894
But, you know, if I had hair
and I wouldn't shave my head,

1721
01:34:10,436 --> 01:34:11,562
I would have had a hair net.

1722
01:34:12,855 --> 01:34:13,439
But like I

1723
01:34:13,439 --> 01:34:16,901
bleached the
area that I did it in on a regular basis,

1724
01:34:17,318 --> 01:34:19,695
made sure there was no, you know, DNA.

1725
01:34:21,447 --> 01:34:23,532
Like there is a ridiculous amount of stuff

1726
01:34:23,532 --> 01:34:26,452
that kind of goes into this
and then actually packaging it up.

1727
01:34:26,452 --> 01:34:29,413
So let's say I'm packaging up
just an ounce a week.

1728
01:34:30,456 --> 01:34:33,876
I'm taking I'm taking a sandwich bag

1729
01:34:34,168 --> 01:34:38,506
and putting the cannabis in them, sealing
it up, getting the air out as best I can.

1730
01:34:38,923 --> 01:34:41,801
And then I'm taking that
and I'm wiping it down with rubbing

1731
01:34:41,801 --> 01:34:44,303
alcohol with the new pair of gloves.

1732
01:34:44,970 --> 01:34:47,181
And the reason I have to do
these new pair of gloves

1733
01:34:47,556 --> 01:34:53,562
is because at the end of the day
that those the THC is microscopic,

1734
01:34:53,771 --> 01:34:56,732
like if there's even the smallest amount

1735
01:34:56,774 --> 01:34:59,235
on a layer that is exposed to the air,

1736
01:34:59,777 --> 01:35:02,822
if there is a dog around,
that dog can alert to.

1737
01:35:05,991 --> 01:35:09,036
So what I would
do is I would take the package and I would

1738
01:35:09,328 --> 01:35:12,164
I would seal it up in a
in a like a sandwich bag

1739
01:35:12,164 --> 01:35:15,334
or freezer bag,
get as much air out as I could.

1740
01:35:15,334 --> 01:35:17,586
Then I would wipe it down
with rubbing alcohol.

1741
01:35:17,795 --> 01:35:21,674
I would stick it inside a vacuum seal bag.

1742
01:35:21,966 --> 01:35:25,469
I would vacuum seal bag,
and then I would dip that whole bag in

1743
01:35:25,553 --> 01:35:28,681
and the solution of rubbing alcohol
let it dry off.

1744
01:35:28,931 --> 01:35:30,933
Then I would seal it in another bag.

1745
01:35:30,933 --> 01:35:33,436
And then the last bag that I would in

1746
01:35:34,478 --> 01:35:36,522
would be what's called a visual barrier.

1747
01:35:36,856 --> 01:35:38,941
And a visual barrier is just a

1748
01:35:39,734 --> 01:35:42,319
it's a vacuum seal bag
that's a solid color.

1749
01:35:42,319 --> 01:35:43,779
She can't see through it.

1750
01:35:43,779 --> 01:35:46,073
So I would vacuum sealed his last bag

1751
01:35:46,574 --> 01:35:51,579
and I off my thermal printer,
I would print off a label that says

1752
01:35:51,579 --> 01:35:56,125
organic dried fruit, and I would slap it
on that visual barrier.

1753
01:35:56,125 --> 01:35:59,336
Now, if I can this to you, you look at it
and you squeeze

1754
01:35:59,336 --> 01:36:02,339
it, it feels like dried fruit.

1755
01:36:02,423 --> 01:36:04,508
But you can't see it
because the visual barrier.

1756
01:36:04,759 --> 01:36:07,344
So if law enforcement

1757
01:36:07,344 --> 01:36:11,474
or a postal employee was curious about
what was in a box and stepped on the box

1758
01:36:11,474 --> 01:36:14,018
to look inside of it, Oh,
it was in actually.

1759
01:36:14,018 --> 01:36:16,270
And we didn't know.
We stepped in the box by accident.

1760
01:36:16,270 --> 01:36:18,647
You can step on this box all day.

1761
01:36:18,939 --> 01:36:21,942
And that visual barrier
is not going to the visual barrier.

1762
01:36:21,942 --> 01:36:24,236
So you could literally open the box.

1763
01:36:24,236 --> 01:36:27,031
And what you're seeing is just this thing
that says organic dried fruit.

1764
01:36:27,281 --> 01:36:31,327
You have to open this box
and cut through this, you know, two mil

1765
01:36:31,327 --> 01:36:34,955
thick plastic
in order to get the other place to go.

1766
01:36:35,164 --> 01:36:39,877
And even then, it's still so opaque
that you can't see what it actually is.

1767
01:36:40,127 --> 01:36:42,755
So you have to go through all these layers
to see what it actually is.

1768
01:36:43,047 --> 01:36:46,801
Now, the reason I would do that is because
you have a thing called permeation,

1769
01:36:47,051 --> 01:36:50,554
so I can take a pound of weed,
I can put it in a bag,

1770
01:36:50,554 --> 01:36:55,851
I can stick it in a PVC pipe
and I can stick it in a block of concrete,

1771
01:36:56,018 --> 01:36:59,021
stick
that block of concrete in a gas tank.

1772
01:36:59,188 --> 01:37:02,525
And if I leave it there for long enough,
a drug sniffing dog

1773
01:37:02,983 --> 01:37:07,905
will smell that smell of that cannabis
through the metal of the gas

1774
01:37:07,905 --> 01:37:11,534
tank, the gas in the tank,
the concrete, the pipe

1775
01:37:12,243 --> 01:37:16,330
and the plastic bag
because it permeates out breakers.

1776
01:37:16,330 --> 01:37:18,499
Nothing in this world is actually solid.

1777
01:37:18,707 --> 01:37:23,254
It's all held together by
but nothing is technically solid, right?

1778
01:37:23,295 --> 01:37:28,634
Even the inside of an atom is comprised
of basically nothing but empty space.

1779
01:37:28,843 --> 01:37:32,805
So permeation goes through everything
in anything.

1780
01:37:33,138 --> 01:37:35,182
Some substances. It takes longer.

1781
01:37:35,474 --> 01:37:37,935
Now, mind you,
I don't have to put it in concrete

1782
01:37:37,935 --> 01:37:40,813
or steel or any of this crazy
stuff that you see. Like

1783
01:37:41,856 --> 01:37:44,024
a lot
of the cartels do that that are shipping,

1784
01:37:44,316 --> 01:37:48,487
you know, large quantities
because at the end of the day, I use two.

1785
01:37:48,487 --> 01:37:50,239
To three days shipping here.

1786
01:37:50,239 --> 01:37:53,284
No, and. It's sealed in four layers.

1787
01:37:53,617 --> 01:37:57,037
So it doesn't have time
to permeate those bags

1788
01:37:57,496 --> 01:37:59,498
in order for a dog to be able to smell it.

1789
01:37:59,707 --> 01:38:02,459
And I can assure you
there's no microscopic residue

1790
01:38:02,710 --> 01:38:05,004
on the outside of it
because I've changed my gloves

1791
01:38:05,254 --> 01:38:09,341
and I've killed whatever it is,
rubbing alcohol and completely cleaned it

1792
01:38:09,675 --> 01:38:12,219
multiple times on that same package.

1793
01:38:13,512 --> 01:38:15,472
That's that's really informative.

1794
01:38:15,472 --> 01:38:17,308
Thank you. I love that.

1795
01:38:17,308 --> 01:38:18,434
So you gave your

1796
01:38:18,434 --> 01:38:21,353
you gave all these packages to your cousin
and she would drive him to work

1797
01:38:21,395 --> 01:38:22,605
like in the town.

1798
01:38:22,605 --> 01:38:26,108
And so so what would happen
was every show.

1799
01:38:26,317 --> 01:38:27,109
That every.

1800
01:38:27,109 --> 01:38:29,904
Three packages
would have a different return address.

1801
01:38:31,739 --> 01:38:34,575
So I would maintain a list

1802
01:38:36,035 --> 01:38:37,995
and the list was like a list of counties.

1803
01:38:37,995 --> 01:38:40,205
And in the counties,
you know, you have towns.

1804
01:38:40,205 --> 01:38:42,416
So what I would do is
I would pick a county.

1805
01:38:43,208 --> 01:38:44,418
It could just be random.

1806
01:38:44,418 --> 01:38:47,671
I'd pick a county off this list
and I'd say, okay, this town,

1807
01:38:47,671 --> 01:38:50,424
this town,
this town, this town, this town.

1808
01:38:50,799 --> 01:38:55,012
And then from that list,
I now have five different towns

1809
01:38:55,471 --> 01:38:58,265
now in, you know, rural Vermont, not,
you know,

1810
01:38:58,265 --> 01:39:03,187
not every some towns are actually villages
and not like.

1811
01:39:03,187 --> 01:39:07,191
So yeah, it's just it's so from each one,
what I would have to do

1812
01:39:07,274 --> 01:39:10,486
is one of the alerts for law enforcement

1813
01:39:10,903 --> 01:39:13,530
is a fraudulent return address.

1814
01:39:13,822 --> 01:39:16,533
So I had to find a database of legitimate

1815
01:39:17,242 --> 01:39:19,912
return addresses and like,

1816
01:39:19,912 --> 01:39:23,707
you know, me like if like you're an honest
guy, like you're

1817
01:39:23,707 --> 01:39:28,128
not a citizen, you're 9 to 5 guy,
you don't break the law.

1818
01:39:28,128 --> 01:39:30,673
You're not you know,
you're not evil. That I know.

1819
01:39:30,673 --> 01:39:33,717
You know, like,
so like I didn't want to send out, you

1820
01:39:33,717 --> 01:39:37,596
know, a
bunch of coke with Jack's return address,

1821
01:39:39,848 --> 01:39:42,393
because if I did that, you know, you may

1822
01:39:43,519 --> 01:39:46,480
you know, it may not be the best thing
when Homeland Security busts

1823
01:39:46,480 --> 01:39:50,776
down your door at 6 a.m., you miss work

1824
01:39:51,193 --> 01:39:54,196
where someone tells your boss
about how they saw you getting raided.

1825
01:39:54,863 --> 01:39:56,323
You lose your job, you know.

1826
01:39:56,323 --> 01:39:56,615
What do you do?

1827
01:39:56,615 --> 01:39:58,075
Say, Oh, I didn't do it.

1828
01:39:58,075 --> 01:40:00,953
Everyone says that, you know,

1829
01:40:00,953 --> 01:40:04,415
and like the stigma, the trauma
that your kids are going to have, like,

1830
01:40:04,665 --> 01:40:07,209
you know, all that kind of stuff
that goes hand-in-hand with it.

1831
01:40:08,377 --> 01:40:11,505
So like, for me, I needed a list of people
that I could find,

1832
01:40:11,922 --> 01:40:17,469
and I needed this list to be of people
in every state, every county, every town.

1833
01:40:17,845 --> 01:40:20,097
And I needed this street address.

1834
01:40:20,347 --> 01:40:23,559
I needed their real name,
and I had to be a legitimate address.

1835
01:40:23,892 --> 01:40:24,977
And like my

1836
01:40:26,562 --> 01:40:28,355
solution for that

1837
01:40:28,355 --> 01:40:30,816
was looking at the sex offender registry

1838
01:40:31,066 --> 01:40:35,988
and finding like level three
sex offenders, the worst sex offenders,

1839
01:40:36,363 --> 01:40:39,992
and, you know, putting their name
as a return address.

1840
01:40:40,242 --> 01:40:44,788
And what this did was it made it shows
a legitimate address, a legitimate return

1841
01:40:44,788 --> 01:40:48,751
address where I could be pretty sure,
you know not guaranteed, but

1842
01:40:50,002 --> 01:40:53,797
excuse me, reasonably
sure that kids didn't live at

1843
01:40:54,423 --> 01:40:58,385
and that, you know, this guy got raided
I really didn't care,

1844
01:40:58,719 --> 01:41:02,222
you know, because I have no sympathy for

1845
01:41:02,806 --> 01:41:06,810
you know, Chioma was like this are like
all federal prisons, like child molesters

1846
01:41:06,810 --> 01:41:10,647
or, peatos, as they call them
on the dark day and everywhere else.

1847
01:41:11,732 --> 01:41:14,526
So, you know,
I was like at the end of the day, like,

1848
01:41:15,069 --> 01:41:18,655
you know, I there's news a great list
have because no matter where

1849
01:41:18,655 --> 01:41:21,700
I'm shipping from in the country,
there are sex offenders.

1850
01:41:22,743 --> 01:41:24,036
And I didn't

1851
01:41:24,036 --> 01:41:27,456
feel guilty about using them

1852
01:41:27,873 --> 01:41:31,752
for my nefarious purposes,
you know because at one point

1853
01:41:32,419 --> 01:41:35,589
they would use someone else
for their nefarious purposes.

1854
01:41:35,714 --> 01:41:36,548
You know.

1855
01:41:37,466 --> 01:41:40,719
And I just kind of saw it as karma.

1856
01:41:40,719 --> 01:41:45,099
So I would print out with each package,
each package.

1857
01:41:45,099 --> 01:41:48,227
So each post office at a maximum

1858
01:41:49,186 --> 01:41:51,855
would have three packages going out.

1859
01:41:52,981 --> 01:41:53,315
Right.

1860
01:41:53,315 --> 01:41:57,402
So, you know, if we shipping nine packages

1861
01:41:57,402 --> 01:42:00,280
that day, she would probably be visiting

1862
01:42:01,031 --> 01:42:04,034
three or more post offices.

1863
01:42:05,285 --> 01:42:09,248
So our, our maximum was three packages
per post office.

1864
01:42:09,748 --> 01:42:13,627
So she would go, she would,
you know, ship out these packages

1865
01:42:13,961 --> 01:42:16,130
from these three different offices.

1866
01:42:16,130 --> 01:42:18,048
She would get receipts
and she would bring them back

1867
01:42:18,048 --> 01:42:21,885
and I would cross off
the name of that town.

1868
01:42:22,803 --> 01:42:25,305
And then the next day
I would pick a different county.

1869
01:42:25,305 --> 01:42:27,850
Right. And that's how I rotated.

1870
01:42:28,058 --> 01:42:32,354
But it's
also how I ensured that I did not visit

1871
01:42:32,646 --> 01:42:35,649
that same post office
for at least six months,

1872
01:42:37,067 --> 01:42:38,819
because
I figured, you know, if the feds are going

1873
01:42:38,819 --> 01:42:42,156
to, the feds say, we ship out this package
from this post office,

1874
01:42:43,198 --> 01:42:44,449
the feds catch it.

1875
01:42:44,449 --> 01:42:46,451
And they're like, Well,
we didn't get any video footage.

1876
01:42:46,451 --> 01:42:48,996
Like, so we're gonna set up shop.
Where do surveillance?

1877
01:42:48,996 --> 01:42:50,164
That's what they do, right?

1878
01:42:50,164 --> 01:42:52,541
We set up surveillance at this location.

1879
01:42:53,375 --> 01:42:56,044
Our fun is
we're not going to be back for six months.

1880
01:42:57,254 --> 01:42:59,381
How big is your budget?

1881
01:42:59,381 --> 01:42:59,590
You know,

1882
01:42:59,590 --> 01:43:03,343
we're not we're not sending out,
you know, five gallon buckets of Fed all.

1883
01:43:03,635 --> 01:43:07,598
In fact,
the most dangerous, the most harmful drug

1884
01:43:08,140 --> 01:43:11,310
that I shipped, I think, was alcohol

1885
01:43:11,602 --> 01:43:14,104
other people would say
was powdered cocaine.

1886
01:43:15,230 --> 01:43:17,482
I think I honestly
I think alcohol is worse.

1887
01:43:18,233 --> 01:43:19,109
You know, it's legal.

1888
01:43:20,444 --> 01:43:21,945
But like, I didn't sell heroin.

1889
01:43:21,945 --> 01:43:23,322
I didn't sell meth.

1890
01:43:23,322 --> 01:43:24,948
I mean, meth.

1891
01:43:24,948 --> 01:43:28,118
They didn't sell then? No,

1892
01:43:28,118 --> 01:43:32,080
I tried not to sell drugs
that I thought took people's souls.

1893
01:43:32,331 --> 01:43:34,708
I tried to sell what I to be

1894
01:43:35,125 --> 01:43:39,880
party drugs and again, bulimic,
You know, that's that's you just trying

1895
01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:43,508
to, you know, rationalize
your bad behavior

1896
01:43:43,508 --> 01:43:45,886
and you could absolutely say
that I wouldn't contested.

1897
01:43:45,886 --> 01:43:48,222
I wouldn't say it's wrong.

1898
01:43:48,222 --> 01:43:49,640
You know, that's what it is.

1899
01:43:49,640 --> 01:43:51,975
But at the end of the day, like,

1900
01:43:52,184 --> 01:43:54,019
for me, that was my moral,

1901
01:43:54,019 --> 01:43:57,898
you know, and I was proud of myself
for even having one,

1902
01:43:58,440 --> 01:44:00,651
because there's a lot of guys that don't,
you know.

1903
01:44:01,026 --> 01:44:01,693
Yeah. When? No.

1904
01:44:01,693 --> 01:44:05,447
What So they had a moral line
of which drugs you would sell

1905
01:44:05,447 --> 01:44:06,531
and which ones you wouldn't.

1906
01:44:06,531 --> 01:44:09,243
Buy and whose return addresses.

1907
01:44:09,243 --> 01:44:10,702
Yeah, many of the moral lines.

1908
01:44:13,747 --> 01:44:14,039
Like,

1909
01:44:14,039 --> 01:44:16,208
is there somebody who wouldn't
you wouldn't sell you.

1910
01:44:17,042 --> 01:44:19,169
Well so that's the thing, right?
Everyone's anonymous.

1911
01:44:19,169 --> 01:44:23,090
You was kind of like it's
kind of like if I sell a knife on Amazon,

1912
01:44:23,090 --> 01:44:24,299
how do I know you're over it?

1913
01:44:24,299 --> 01:44:24,967
You have?

1914
01:44:27,344 --> 01:44:28,428
Mm hmm.

1915
01:44:28,428 --> 01:44:30,389
Yeah. So you really can't tell. Right?

1916
01:44:30,389 --> 01:44:31,807
I mean, and only that man.

1917
01:44:31,807 --> 01:44:33,267
But you have, you know,

1918
01:44:33,267 --> 01:44:35,978
you know, for the people, like, well,
you know, you're selling dangerous drugs.

1919
01:44:36,311 --> 01:44:36,645
Okay.

1920
01:44:36,645 --> 01:44:39,564
Are you going to tell me that no child's
ever been prescribed oxycodone?

1921
01:44:40,941 --> 01:44:43,902
At least I'm
not in a position of trust, right?

1922
01:44:44,027 --> 01:44:45,696
I'm not your family physician.

1923
01:44:45,696 --> 01:44:49,992
Like it's like having a soccer
mom come to you and trust you.

1924
01:44:50,117 --> 01:44:52,119
You've got tennis, all right?

1925
01:44:52,119 --> 01:44:54,788
So she just doesn't play tennis
for a few days.

1926
01:44:54,788 --> 01:44:58,000
She'll be good and like,
you know, a doctor to try to make

1927
01:44:58,000 --> 01:45:02,379
it feel like he's actually done something
and to justify his,

1928
01:45:02,713 --> 01:45:06,508
you know, what he's going to charge her,
you know, prescribes OxyContin

1929
01:45:07,009 --> 01:45:09,761
and she becomes up like this is not

1930
01:45:10,637 --> 01:45:12,639
a far fetched story.

1931
01:45:13,140 --> 01:45:13,849
Right. Right.

1932
01:45:13,849 --> 01:45:15,309
This is a fairly common story.

1933
01:45:15,309 --> 01:45:18,520
And That's you know, it's my
they're I'm of the opinion that

1934
01:45:18,729 --> 01:45:22,733
that's one of the reasons we have this,
you know, opioid crisis here in America.

1935
01:45:22,983 --> 01:45:24,359
This is profitable for

1936
01:45:25,485 --> 01:45:26,737
the pharmaceutical companies.

1937
01:45:26,737 --> 01:45:30,073
And those pharmaceutical
give big donations to doctors.

1938
01:45:30,073 --> 01:45:31,491
And, you know, at the end of the day,

1939
01:45:31,491 --> 01:45:35,037
those same pharmaceutical companies
will turn around with the treatment.

1940
01:45:35,203 --> 01:45:38,832
You know, when says that person, oh,
we can't give you this OxyContin anymore,

1941
01:45:39,124 --> 01:45:40,751
you know,
because you're obviously an addict

1942
01:45:40,751 --> 01:45:43,712
now they're going to go get heroin
and then at some point

1943
01:45:44,338 --> 01:45:47,257
they're going to try to get off the heroin
and they're going to go with something,

1944
01:45:47,716 --> 01:45:50,052
you know, like mescaline

1945
01:45:50,052 --> 01:45:52,262
or I'm sorry, namaste methadone,

1946
01:45:52,262 --> 01:45:55,349
you know, And they're going to be on that
for the rest of their lives.

1947
01:45:55,599 --> 01:45:58,352
Now, why when, you know,

1948
01:45:58,352 --> 01:46:02,189
there are studies that show
that, you know, hallucinogenic mushrooms

1949
01:46:02,564 --> 01:46:06,276
can help or completely alleviate
opioid withdrawals.

1950
01:46:06,526 --> 01:46:09,112
Well, because at the end of the day,

1951
01:46:09,112 --> 01:46:11,782
a treatment is much more profitable
than a cure.

1952
01:46:11,990 --> 01:46:15,369
And in my opinion,
that kind of premeditation

1953
01:46:16,161 --> 01:46:21,208
is barbaric in comparison to a guy
selling some weed

1954
01:46:21,500 --> 01:46:25,420
and some,
you know, alcohol on the darknet.

1955
01:46:27,130 --> 01:46:28,715
And that's that's how kind of like

1956
01:46:28,715 --> 01:46:31,802
I would justify to myself,
you know, Now, is it wrong?

1957
01:46:31,802 --> 01:46:34,429
Yeah, is absolutely wrong
because it's it's illegal.

1958
01:46:34,429 --> 01:46:35,055
Right.

1959
01:46:35,347 --> 01:46:40,268
But I was also of the belief
that an unjust law is no law at all.

1960
01:46:40,310 --> 01:46:42,562
You know,
And I was also of the belief that

1961
01:46:44,106 --> 01:46:47,025
all of us
have an inherent right to our own bodies.

1962
01:46:47,025 --> 01:46:50,487
You know,
if you want to go in McDonald's for

1963
01:46:51,613 --> 01:46:55,659
the rest of your life and,
you know, become £400

1964
01:46:55,659 --> 01:46:58,870
and die of a heart attack,
you're free to do so as an American.

1965
01:46:59,287 --> 01:47:01,540
You know, and I'm of the belief that

1966
01:47:01,998 --> 01:47:05,460
if you want to do drugs,
you should be free to do so.

1967
01:47:06,128 --> 01:47:09,631
As an American, you have a right
to put whatever you on your body know.

1968
01:47:10,006 --> 01:47:13,385
Unless someone else owns your body,
no one has a right to tell you what to do

1969
01:47:13,385 --> 01:47:13,718
with.

1970
01:47:13,927 --> 01:47:17,973
It's like me telling you, you know, you
can't wear your glasses over your eyes.

1971
01:47:18,140 --> 01:47:20,016
You have to wear them on your forehead.
Who am I?

1972
01:47:20,016 --> 01:47:21,893
I have no right to your property.

1973
01:47:21,893 --> 01:47:23,728
Who am I to tell you which so?

1974
01:47:23,728 --> 01:47:26,648
That was kind of like my contention
on that whole thing.

1975
01:47:27,524 --> 01:47:29,151
I think I'm going way off topic.

1976
01:47:29,151 --> 01:47:30,694
No, I think that's good.

1977
01:47:31,987 --> 01:47:34,614
I think it kind encapsulates, you know,

1978
01:47:34,656 --> 01:47:38,577
the libertarian view and Russell Brooks
view and stuff like that. So.

1979
01:47:38,618 --> 01:47:42,038
Well, I think it does
that at the same time like you know

1980
01:47:42,038 --> 01:47:45,083
it just pro prohibitionist stupid
because it doesn't work.

1981
01:47:45,375 --> 01:47:47,210
You know the war on drugs

1982
01:47:47,210 --> 01:47:51,298
you spend billions of dollars
every fiscal quarter and you know, we have

1983
01:47:51,298 --> 01:47:55,844
we have locked up people for life
for cannabis, and it's done nothing.

1984
01:47:56,094 --> 01:47:59,431
It's like,
you know, you can execute people all day.

1985
01:47:59,473 --> 01:48:01,725
Guess what?
There's still going to be murders.

1986
01:48:01,725 --> 01:48:07,147
You know, the tough on crime stance
does nothing but get politicians elected.

1987
01:48:07,439 --> 01:48:09,858
And in my opinion, like to be a doctor.

1988
01:48:09,858 --> 01:48:11,693
You need ten years of school
to be an architect.

1989
01:48:11,693 --> 01:48:13,653
You need ten years of school to.

1990
01:48:15,113 --> 01:48:18,492
You know, to to be
a lawyer, you need seven years of college.

1991
01:48:18,492 --> 01:48:18,950
Right?

1992
01:48:18,950 --> 01:48:20,660
You know,
what do you need to be a politician?

1993
01:48:20,660 --> 01:48:22,871
You should apply to you.

1994
01:48:23,455 --> 01:48:25,540
But you know, this is going to be.

1995
01:48:25,540 --> 01:48:28,668
Willing to betray you and July

1996
01:48:28,835 --> 01:48:31,421
and to put on like this

1997
01:48:31,713 --> 01:48:35,926
holistic attitude
of how you're virtuous and wholesome.

1998
01:48:35,926 --> 01:48:37,886
And it's just disgusting to me.

1999
01:48:37,886 --> 01:48:40,222
It's like, you know, you'll see,

2000
01:48:40,222 --> 01:48:43,183
you know, you see a school shooting
and you see some horrible tragedy.

2001
01:48:43,183 --> 01:48:43,725
Right.

2002
01:48:43,725 --> 01:48:47,270
And, you know, there's a comedian
who said this much better than me.

2003
01:48:47,270 --> 01:48:48,063
But like,

2004
01:48:49,147 --> 01:48:50,857
you know, you see these people who will

2005
01:48:50,857 --> 01:48:53,860
hop on Twitter and,
you know, they'll be like like.

2006
01:48:53,860 --> 01:48:57,113
Oh, you know. Prayers and,
you know, wishes.

2007
01:48:57,113 --> 01:48:59,616
And my heart goes out to the victims.

2008
01:48:59,616 --> 01:49:01,660
And so and so it and it's like,

2009
01:49:01,660 --> 01:49:05,080
you know, when I see that post,
don't see someone who genuinely cares

2010
01:49:05,330 --> 01:49:10,752
about people who are killed or,
you know, suffered some god awful tragedy.

2011
01:49:11,086 --> 01:49:14,506
I see someone saying, you know,
social media is about what's it about?

2012
01:49:14,589 --> 01:49:15,924
Look at me.

2013
01:49:15,924 --> 01:49:19,010
You know, I see someone saying, hey,
I know this horrible thing happened,

2014
01:49:19,469 --> 01:49:20,804
but don't forget about me.

2015
01:49:21,763 --> 01:49:22,597
I'm important

2016
01:49:22,597 --> 01:49:26,560
to, you know, like, it's
just it's disgusting to me.

2017
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:29,145
And like, like, I don't know, just like.

2018
01:49:29,437 --> 01:49:29,938
You know.

2019
01:49:29,938 --> 01:49:32,274
You when you have a prohibition
on anything,

2020
01:49:33,066 --> 01:49:36,069
you empower those who are willing to walk

2021
01:49:36,069 --> 01:49:38,530
outside the lines of the law.

2022
01:49:39,197 --> 01:49:40,031
You know,

2023
01:49:40,782 --> 01:49:43,118
So like, you know, we make alcohol.

2024
01:49:43,118 --> 01:49:45,829
Well, you know, now you have

2025
01:49:49,457 --> 01:49:51,042
your people like.

2026
01:49:51,042 --> 01:49:52,335
Oh my God.

2027
01:49:52,627 --> 01:49:54,045
Someone's

2028
01:49:55,171 --> 01:49:57,882
who's a dude in Chicago, gangster

2029
01:49:59,676 --> 01:50:00,427
alcohol.

2030
01:50:00,427 --> 01:50:02,596
So like, you make alcohol legal, right?

2031
01:50:02,887 --> 01:50:06,725
And you know, you empower Al Capone,
right,

2032
01:50:06,850 --> 01:50:11,354
to make millions of dollars
of this product because now it's illegal,

2033
01:50:11,438 --> 01:50:14,482
which means it's more profitable
because it's more rare.

2034
01:50:14,691 --> 01:50:17,902
And things like, you know, the Valentine's

2035
01:50:17,902 --> 01:50:20,196
Day massacre happened.

2036
01:50:20,905 --> 01:50:21,573
Yeah.

2037
01:50:21,573 --> 01:50:24,159
I mean,
I was just reading the other day about,

2038
01:50:24,159 --> 01:50:27,037
you know, nicotine kills 400 people
a year.

2039
01:50:27,037 --> 01:50:28,955
Why not just make it illegal?

2040
01:50:28,955 --> 01:50:30,665
Well, if you did, then need to have

2041
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:35,712
dangerous nicotine in the world and not,

2042
01:50:36,171 --> 01:50:38,381
you know, regulated and safe and,

2043
01:50:39,633 --> 01:50:42,302
you know, store bought stuff
is going to be a lot safer than speed.

2044
01:50:42,302 --> 01:50:43,511
But nicotine.

2045
01:50:43,511 --> 01:50:44,721
And I mean, at the end of the day,

2046
01:50:44,721 --> 01:50:48,433
you cannot listen,
this world is not a safe place, you know,

2047
01:50:48,558 --> 01:50:52,145
And like you can try to childproof

2048
01:50:52,145 --> 01:50:55,190
the world for adults.

2049
01:50:55,190 --> 01:50:57,025
But it's it's all it's going to do

2050
01:50:57,025 --> 01:51:00,320
is give rise to predatory action.

2051
01:51:00,320 --> 01:51:04,240
You know, So like you can say we're going
to make every harmful drug illegal.

2052
01:51:04,574 --> 01:51:07,952
And what's going to happen
is someone's going to come up out of that

2053
01:51:08,286 --> 01:51:12,582
and make a black market for it,
where they're going to make 100 times

2054
01:51:12,582 --> 01:51:17,212
what they would have, you know, what
it would have been had it been regulated.

2055
01:51:17,462 --> 01:51:20,840
And not only that, when it's regulated,
you know, it's in a store.

2056
01:51:20,840 --> 01:51:24,803
So people are going
they're showing ID for it, right Like like

2057
01:51:25,428 --> 01:51:30,016
no one's
selling cigarets to kids at playgrounds.

2058
01:51:30,141 --> 01:51:32,560
Right. Like,
no one's going there with Lou.

2059
01:51:32,560 --> 01:51:35,563
She's trying to sell single sell
single cigarets.

2060
01:51:35,855 --> 01:51:38,233
But you do have crack dealers
that go to schools

2061
01:51:38,316 --> 01:51:40,276
that hand out free crack or free heroin.

2062
01:51:41,695 --> 01:51:42,112
Hello.

2063
01:51:43,405 --> 01:51:44,072
Okay,

2064
01:51:45,490 --> 01:51:47,534
so let's switch gears a little bit here.

2065
01:51:48,827 --> 01:51:52,455
There was a slide that you had
on your talk, which was I want you to talk

2066
01:51:52,455 --> 01:51:56,126
about is know what your boundaries are
and your goals as a Darknet

2067
01:51:56,126 --> 01:51:56,960
vendor.

2068
01:51:59,254 --> 01:51:59,796
Yeah.

2069
01:52:00,046 --> 01:52:03,758
So for me,
my boundaries were the ethical boundaries

2070
01:52:04,175 --> 01:52:06,052
that I spoke about.

2071
01:52:07,095 --> 01:52:09,681
You know, for other guys
it might just be like

2072
01:52:09,681 --> 01:52:12,934
not shipping to a certain place,
which was another thing.

2073
01:52:12,934 --> 01:52:15,437
I didn't ship internationally
and only ship nationally

2074
01:52:16,271 --> 01:52:16,896
because I didn't

2075
01:52:16,896 --> 01:52:21,067
want to have to deal customs
like I can send anything through the mail

2076
01:52:21,067 --> 01:52:24,571
if it's in the United States,
it's not going through customs.

2077
01:52:26,573 --> 01:52:29,200
Now, that said,
if I don't know how to ship it properly

2078
01:52:29,492 --> 01:52:31,327
or I failed to ship it properly

2079
01:52:32,412 --> 01:52:35,373
out of
complacency, then it doesn't matter.

2080
01:52:36,583 --> 01:52:40,462
But the whole thing people like, oh,
like what about drug sniffing dogs?

2081
01:52:40,462 --> 01:52:43,298
Like drug sniffing dogs don't work in
eight hour shifts.

2082
01:52:43,673 --> 01:52:44,299
They can't.

2083
01:52:44,299 --> 01:52:50,054
It's like try to go to a candle shop and
smell candles for longer than a half hour.

2084
01:52:50,054 --> 01:52:52,265
They're all going to smell the same,

2085
01:52:53,016 --> 01:52:53,349
you know.

2086
01:52:53,349 --> 01:52:58,563
So I'm kind of going back to like,
what what can, you know, your boundaries.

2087
01:52:59,147 --> 01:53:03,193
For me, it was like no international
shipments, no selling stuff there.

2088
01:53:04,235 --> 01:53:08,072
You know, heroin, meth, fennel,

2089
01:53:08,531 --> 01:53:11,326
things that kill people

2090
01:53:11,910 --> 01:53:14,537
and, you know, not ripping people off,
giving them

2091
01:53:15,205 --> 01:53:20,293
the best quality product
that I could source on a global scale.

2092
01:53:20,919 --> 01:53:25,089
You know, so like,
the theme of my shop was in quality.

2093
01:53:25,089 --> 01:53:27,509
Like if you came
in, you buy it from Dubai Times two.

2094
01:53:27,884 --> 01:53:31,971
Like you didn't buy for me
because my prices were competitive.

2095
01:53:32,222 --> 01:53:36,643
You bought from me because I sourced
the best acid or the best.

2096
01:53:36,726 --> 01:53:41,105
Molly Or the best, you know, boosted
jack mushrooms,

2097
01:53:41,272 --> 01:53:44,692
cannabis or,
you know, strongest alcohol or whatever.

2098
01:53:45,401 --> 01:53:51,616
I had a boutique, like I sourced
the best product that I could find global,

2099
01:53:52,742 --> 01:53:55,578
and that
was a point of that was my maker thing.

2100
01:53:55,578 --> 01:54:01,084
So that was I guess kind of my boundary
was don't ever sell a cheap drug.

2101
01:54:01,751 --> 01:54:05,088
Don't ever sell something that kill people

2102
01:54:07,423 --> 01:54:10,802
and you set boundaries and what else was a

2103
01:54:10,802 --> 01:54:11,678
goals.

2104
01:54:12,428 --> 01:54:17,392
So my so my goal initially that's a great
question getting into my goals like my.

2105
01:54:17,392 --> 01:54:19,143
Only goal with.

2106
01:54:19,143 --> 01:54:22,647
This was to make like 200 grand

2107
01:54:23,815 --> 01:54:26,568
because like in Vermont,
you could buy a house for a relatively

2108
01:54:26,901 --> 01:54:30,738
like you can find a cheap house
for like a hundred grand.

2109
01:54:31,197 --> 01:54:33,700
So I was like, I buy a $100,000 house

2110
01:54:34,576 --> 01:54:37,078
and I have $100,000 left,

2111
01:54:37,078 --> 01:54:40,582
which will let me pay the taxes
and, you know, live off of it

2112
01:54:40,582 --> 01:54:44,586
for long enough
until I can find something to,

2113
01:54:45,545 --> 01:54:47,922
you know, keep me afloat permanently.

2114
01:54:49,841 --> 01:54:52,510
So my goal was like 200
grand starting out.

2115
01:54:53,261 --> 01:54:55,388
But it was like between,

2116
01:54:56,472 --> 01:54:59,309
like my cousin's fee that I paid

2117
01:55:00,977 --> 01:55:04,439
and having to, like, upgrade my

2118
01:55:04,647 --> 01:55:09,235
my cannabis set up and upgrade my alcohol

2119
01:55:09,944 --> 01:55:12,155
and pay for shipping and,

2120
01:55:13,406 --> 01:55:15,909
you know, kind of evolve
with the business.

2121
01:55:16,826 --> 01:55:20,204
I always found myself always reinvesting.

2122
01:55:20,204 --> 01:55:23,917
So like if I sold something,
I made 800 bucks off of that,

2123
01:55:24,208 --> 01:55:26,461
I would be like,
All right, 400 bucks is going to be

2124
01:55:26,961 --> 01:55:30,381
for shipping fees.

2125
01:55:30,798 --> 01:55:34,510
And the other 400 of that
is going to be for gas money

2126
01:55:34,844 --> 01:55:38,056
for my cousin to ship $400 worth of stuff.

2127
01:55:38,056 --> 01:55:39,057
Hopefully.

2128
01:55:39,933 --> 01:55:42,810
So like I made enough to make a profit.

2129
01:55:42,810 --> 01:55:47,899
But like between my cousin
and my ex, who I was still living with,

2130
01:55:50,109 --> 01:55:54,530
it was I never got to that $200,000 line.

2131
01:55:54,530 --> 01:55:58,326
Now, I did get to a point
where like towards the end,

2132
01:55:58,326 --> 01:56:01,746
like your money starts to come in
exponentially.

2133
01:56:01,746 --> 01:56:06,250
So like basically the first week was like
300, second week was probably 500.

2134
01:56:06,584 --> 01:56:09,128
And then like eight weeks
where it was nothing.

2135
01:56:10,546 --> 01:56:12,131
And then you have weeks where,

2136
01:56:12,131 --> 01:56:14,467
you know, you got Bitcoin and guess what?

2137
01:56:15,051 --> 01:56:18,012
Bitcoin dropped 20% and you Yeah.

2138
01:56:18,596 --> 01:56:20,848
So now you got to hold that.

2139
01:56:21,516 --> 01:56:25,728
Till it goes back up
at least to that at least 20%.

2140
01:56:26,938 --> 01:56:29,148
And like I'm not a millionaire,
I don't have a lot of money.

2141
01:56:29,148 --> 01:56:29,857
So like

2142
01:56:30,942 --> 01:56:32,819
having that

2143
01:56:32,902 --> 01:56:35,154
being held, it kills you

2144
01:56:35,321 --> 01:56:39,158
because now like,
you know, you're eating your profits now.

2145
01:56:39,158 --> 01:56:41,077
Now you got to put that money there.

2146
01:56:41,077 --> 01:56:41,953
You have to hold in Bitcoin.

2147
01:56:41,953 --> 01:56:45,248
You put all the rest of the money
that you made into stuff like shipping,

2148
01:56:45,248 --> 01:56:48,251
shipping supplies,
you know oh, I need more nutrients.

2149
01:56:48,334 --> 01:56:49,961
I need my pump died.

2150
01:56:49,961 --> 01:56:52,422
Oh, I need, you know, this or I need that.

2151
01:56:52,422 --> 01:56:55,425
And like, you know,
you have these constant feeds.

2152
01:56:56,050 --> 01:56:59,971
Never mind the car payments
and you know, everything else rent.

2153
01:57:00,221 --> 01:57:03,307
You're I mean, like you still have
your regular bills, so, like,

2154
01:57:04,851 --> 01:57:05,393
you have all these

2155
01:57:05,393 --> 01:57:09,814
things and it's just like that person
who works that 9 to 5, you know,

2156
01:57:10,398 --> 01:57:13,568
you're on the wheel and you feel like
you're not going anywhere.

2157
01:57:13,943 --> 01:57:14,569
Right?

2158
01:57:14,569 --> 01:57:17,655
The only difference between me
and that guy is like, you know, I'm

2159
01:57:17,655 --> 01:57:20,366
risking 30 years in prison.

2160
01:57:20,992 --> 01:57:21,701
Yeah.

2161
01:57:21,701 --> 01:57:25,455
And I'm hoping that by doing that
and risking more,

2162
01:57:25,455 --> 01:57:28,249
I can make more in a shorter
amount of time.

2163
01:57:30,334 --> 01:57:32,420
And it's just

2164
01:57:32,420 --> 01:57:36,466
it's not always the case. So.

2165
01:57:37,216 --> 01:57:38,468
So like.

2166
01:57:38,468 --> 01:57:40,219
Yeah, yeah, I would, I, I don't know.

2167
01:57:40,219 --> 01:57:43,014
I have I'm trailing off
in my own mind. Out. Yeah.

2168
01:57:43,014 --> 01:57:46,726
So one of the things I wrote down as a
no I can watching your show

2169
01:57:46,893 --> 01:57:49,145
or talk is don't drink and type.

2170
01:57:49,145 --> 01:57:49,896
Yeah.

2171
01:57:51,856 --> 01:57:53,691
Yes absolutely.

2172
01:57:53,691 --> 01:57:56,819
Yeah yeah it's it's
more dangerous than drinking and driving.

2173
01:57:58,738 --> 01:57:59,489
Absolutely.

2174
01:57:59,489 --> 01:58:02,033
Yeah. Yeah. What's the danger here?

2175
01:58:02,033 --> 01:58:06,037
So like, let's say,
you know, you're, you're to a point now

2176
01:58:06,037 --> 01:58:10,750
and you know, we know like as people
who are in security on a regular basis

2177
01:58:10,750 --> 01:58:15,004
right on
you know on the left side of the scale

2178
01:58:15,755 --> 01:58:18,091
we have security right

2179
01:58:18,091 --> 01:58:20,593
And on the right side of the scale,

2180
01:58:21,636 --> 01:58:23,346
we have

2181
01:58:24,764 --> 01:58:26,641
what's the word I'm looking for?

2182
01:58:27,600 --> 01:58:29,560
Ease of access.

2183
01:58:29,560 --> 01:58:38,111
I, I want to say it is the usability.

2184
01:58:38,528 --> 01:58:41,739
Yeah. Like like usability, right. So,

2185
01:58:41,739 --> 01:58:44,617
so we have these two extremes
and they really are,

2186
01:58:45,576 --> 01:58:48,996
you know, like if you get up,
you get up in the morning

2187
01:58:49,413 --> 01:58:52,333
and you walk outside
your apartment in the city

2188
01:58:52,667 --> 01:58:55,753
and you don't close your door,

2189
01:58:56,712 --> 01:58:58,840
it's really easy
to come back in your apartment,

2190
01:58:59,924 --> 01:59:02,385
but it's
also really easy for anyone else to write.

2191
01:59:02,802 --> 01:59:04,595
Think you're not.
Going to have anything left.

2192
01:59:04,595 --> 01:59:07,098
But there
some crack is going to steal everything.

2193
01:59:07,098 --> 01:59:10,852
And so. You know, you.

2194
01:59:10,852 --> 01:59:12,353
You're going to be at a total loss.

2195
01:59:12,353 --> 01:59:15,064
But like, it's going to be really easy
to get back into your own apartment.

2196
01:59:15,064 --> 01:59:15,898
So you know?

2197
01:59:15,898 --> 01:59:18,860
But now on the flip side of that,

2198
01:59:18,860 --> 01:59:20,903
you have three medical locks.

2199
01:59:21,404 --> 01:59:24,866
You have, you know, a bar
that goes across the middle of the door.

2200
01:59:24,991 --> 01:59:28,536
It's a solid steel bar
and all the windows are barred.

2201
01:59:28,786 --> 01:59:31,080
And you have two alarm systems

2202
01:59:31,080 --> 01:59:34,667
with, you know, motion sensors, pressure
plates, all this other stuff.

2203
01:59:34,667 --> 01:59:36,836
You invest a ton of money

2204
01:59:37,086 --> 01:59:40,214
now like you have when you get
in, you have to use 20 years.

2205
01:59:40,214 --> 01:59:41,424
Don't lock your door.

2206
01:59:41,424 --> 01:59:44,844
You have to get in here to punch
in this access code that you read in

2207
01:59:44,844 --> 01:59:48,222
is scared me
all these things that you have to do.

2208
01:59:48,222 --> 01:59:53,728
So it's it's very it's not very
can be right and like you know good

2209
01:59:54,187 --> 01:59:57,732
operational security and functionality

2210
01:59:57,732 --> 02:00:01,027
and like information security policies

2211
02:00:01,694 --> 02:00:06,032
they try to find like that happy medium
between secure and convenient.

2212
02:00:08,409 --> 02:00:08,868
Yeah.

2213
02:00:09,785 --> 02:00:13,956
And like, it's an extremely difficult

2214
02:00:15,041 --> 02:00:15,791
thing to do.

2215
02:00:15,791 --> 02:00:20,046
And when you get complacent, like,
you know, right now you,

2216
02:00:20,087 --> 02:00:24,217
you know, your first purchase on the dark
new market, you're going to be

2217
02:00:24,967 --> 02:00:27,011
it's like losing your virginity.

2218
02:00:27,303 --> 02:00:28,512
You know.

2219
02:00:28,888 --> 02:00:30,223
It'll be super nervous.

2220
02:00:30,223 --> 02:00:32,558
You're going to be clumsy.
You don't know what to do.

2221
02:00:32,642 --> 02:00:34,018
You don't know how to do it.

2222
02:00:34,018 --> 02:00:35,686
You know, you look Yeah.

2223
02:00:35,686 --> 02:00:36,646
And then you.

2224
02:00:36,646 --> 02:00:40,483
You know, you
now you fast forward 20 years later and,

2225
02:00:40,566 --> 02:00:42,860
you know, obviously not 20 years later,
but 20 years,

2226
02:00:43,027 --> 02:00:45,613
maybe an hour metaphor or whatever
you want to call it.

2227
02:00:46,530 --> 02:00:49,200
And now it's like you made 100
purchases on the darknet

2228
02:00:49,450 --> 02:00:51,535
is super comfortable, right?

2229
02:00:51,535 --> 02:00:53,704
You know, you're doing
you know how long it takes.

2230
02:00:53,829 --> 02:00:57,708
You know, how to use BGP,
you know, when you should a vendor

2231
02:00:57,708 --> 02:01:00,586
for a tracking number
or if you should ask a vendor,

2232
02:01:00,836 --> 02:01:03,256
you know, what your vendors
terms and conditions are,

2233
02:01:03,381 --> 02:01:06,133
You know how to spot an exit
scam somewhere?

2234
02:01:06,133 --> 02:01:09,762
Well, you know how to tell a fraudulent
vendor somewhere.

2235
02:01:09,762 --> 02:01:10,179
Well,

2236
02:01:12,014 --> 02:01:14,684
and you've gotten to this point
where you're kind of comfortable

2237
02:01:14,684 --> 02:01:17,895
now, you know, and now you've been
on these forums for so long,

2238
02:01:18,104 --> 02:01:21,691
it's kind of like you saw that evolution
with Fortune

2239
02:01:21,857 --> 02:01:25,069
and Anonymous where these people
talk to each other for so long.

2240
02:01:25,152 --> 02:01:27,905
They're all anonymous, but
they've talked to each other for so long.

2241
02:01:28,155 --> 02:01:33,828
They you know how this one guy
always kind of talk.

2242
02:01:33,828 --> 02:01:36,789
She has this linguistic thing
and always does.

2243
02:01:37,456 --> 02:01:41,085
He always uses a certain phrase
or he always misspells their,

2244
02:01:41,377 --> 02:01:44,964
you know, her like, well,
you pick up these things about him.

2245
02:01:44,964 --> 02:01:47,550
You know, he's anonymous
and you start to learn about each other,

2246
02:01:48,551 --> 02:01:50,303
even in this anonymous setting.

2247
02:01:50,303 --> 02:01:53,472
Now, as human beings,
we have this propensity to,

2248
02:01:53,681 --> 02:01:56,642
over time,
as we know someone to questions, right?

2249
02:01:56,642 --> 02:01:58,811
Unless you're social, you or psychopath.

2250
02:01:58,894 --> 02:01:59,603
Right.

2251
02:02:00,146 --> 02:02:03,733
Like so we tend to grow closer
to the people that we've known for longer.

2252
02:02:03,733 --> 02:02:05,985
And we've been through stuff
with for longer.

2253
02:02:06,110 --> 02:02:09,864
Well, like if you're on the darknet
for any prolonged period of time

2254
02:02:09,947 --> 02:02:11,407
and again, like there's an exit scam

2255
02:02:12,575 --> 02:02:15,453
and you're a customer and you get robbed,

2256
02:02:16,370 --> 02:02:19,665
like there are other people
go rob you, that's a bonding experience.

2257
02:02:19,999 --> 02:02:23,586
But to some degree
you all got robbed together.

2258
02:02:23,586 --> 02:02:26,422
And like what
tend to notice with human beings

2259
02:02:26,672 --> 02:02:29,925
the worst stuff you go through together,
the closure of the bond.

2260
02:02:30,092 --> 02:02:33,012
So like if me
and you go out to a club together

2261
02:02:33,637 --> 02:02:36,349
or like we meet each other at a club and,
you know,

2262
02:02:36,349 --> 02:02:38,434
we become friends,
we talk, you know, boom, boom,

2263
02:02:39,352 --> 02:02:43,189
we'll have a relatively close,
you know, maybe relationship, right?

2264
02:02:43,898 --> 02:02:46,233
But their friendship might not last that
long.

2265
02:02:46,484 --> 02:02:49,862
Now, if me and you sign up
and we go to Iraq together

2266
02:02:50,154 --> 02:02:54,909
or or you know, we're both in prison
and we're you know, we're you know,

2267
02:02:54,909 --> 02:02:58,079
fighting for our lives, this is a big ask,
you know, war or whatever.

2268
02:02:58,245 --> 02:03:01,082
Like when we get out
or we get out of that war,

2269
02:03:01,082 --> 02:03:04,543
we get out of prison, we're going to
have an extremely close bond.

2270
02:03:06,337 --> 02:03:06,796
Yeah.

2271
02:03:06,796 --> 02:03:09,673
And those are bonds that in some cases
can last a lifetime.

2272
02:03:10,091 --> 02:03:13,552
So the more you go through with someone
and the worse it is

2273
02:03:13,552 --> 02:03:17,807
that you go through the close to the bond,
you know, it's to some degree.

2274
02:03:19,225 --> 02:03:22,311
So at some point
I read it banned Darknet markets.

2275
02:03:22,436 --> 02:03:24,688
And then I think Fred created just.

2276
02:03:24,688 --> 02:03:27,608
Then yes Yeah.
Were you involved with dread right.

2277
02:03:27,608 --> 02:03:30,194
Yeah so so

2278
02:03:30,194 --> 02:03:33,823
like even use it even before that?

2279
02:03:34,782 --> 02:03:37,618
Well, we were we just started to.

2280
02:03:38,327 --> 02:03:39,370
Don't drink and type.

2281
02:03:39,370 --> 02:03:42,164
Oh. So to get to your point
like the point of not drinking

2282
02:03:42,164 --> 02:03:44,959
and taping is what happens
is that complacency.

2283
02:03:45,292 --> 02:03:49,797
So you get comfortable at a certain point
with me, just like me and like me.

2284
02:03:49,797 --> 02:03:52,675
And you might know each other in years,
four years and I or she.

2285
02:03:52,675 --> 02:03:53,134
Right.

2286
02:03:53,134 --> 02:03:55,386
And then you wasted one night and

2287
02:03:56,053 --> 02:03:58,389
you know, I call you by your handle.

2288
02:03:58,597 --> 02:03:59,974
They say, Oh, no, man, it's cool.

2289
02:03:59,974 --> 02:04:04,478
Just let me jack up a right. And

2290
02:04:05,438 --> 02:04:07,982
it's like, you know that situation.

2291
02:04:07,982 --> 02:04:09,984
But on the darknet, right?

2292
02:04:11,026 --> 02:04:13,320
Well, like I very well could be a fed.

2293
02:04:14,822 --> 02:04:18,617
Now I know something I know in identifying
piece of information about you,

2294
02:04:19,118 --> 02:04:19,994
and maybe

2295
02:04:19,994 --> 02:04:23,622
I've seen you say something a certain way
that you need to a certain area.

2296
02:04:23,789 --> 02:04:27,918
Now I know where your first name is
and a roundabout where you are.

2297
02:04:28,878 --> 02:04:31,714
And as time goes on,
like there will be more information leaks

2298
02:04:31,922 --> 02:04:34,467
than I can capitalize
on. You figure it out.

2299
02:04:34,467 --> 02:04:36,218
And that's why
I said to answer your question.

2300
02:04:36,218 --> 02:04:41,307
That's why I said don't drink in time,
because whatever complacency you have

2301
02:04:41,557 --> 02:04:44,477
is exponentially increased,

2302
02:04:44,727 --> 02:04:47,771
which means the chances of you

2303
02:04:47,771 --> 02:04:50,107
basically being a data leak on yourself

2304
02:04:50,399 --> 02:04:53,235
increases exponentially with.

2305
02:04:53,527 --> 02:04:56,030
So give me a quick rundown of some of the

2306
02:04:56,197 --> 02:04:58,657
some of the roles
you've had here on Darknet Markets. Right.

2307
02:04:58,657 --> 02:05:01,952
So 5000 posts just as a as a contributor,

2308
02:05:02,536 --> 02:05:05,080
a buyer, a vendor,

2309
02:05:05,080 --> 02:05:09,001
Dredd admin
and a PR for another Darknet market.

2310
02:05:09,418 --> 02:05:09,877
Go on.

2311
02:05:11,128 --> 02:05:15,257
So yeah, PR and then also

2312
02:05:18,427 --> 02:05:19,637
I've been like arbitration.

2313
02:05:19,637 --> 02:05:22,097
So like arbitration

2314
02:05:25,267 --> 02:05:26,435
dispute resolution.

2315
02:05:26,435 --> 02:05:29,563
So basically
when you would have a customer

2316
02:05:29,563 --> 02:05:33,192
who would dispute a sale

2317
02:05:33,484 --> 02:05:34,944
and you would have a vendor

2318
02:05:34,944 --> 02:05:37,613
who would either agree or dispute it

2319
02:05:37,613 --> 02:05:41,242
and I would, I would manage some of the
sometimes on some of those markets,

2320
02:05:41,242 --> 02:05:43,452
I would manage those disputes

2321
02:05:45,746 --> 02:05:49,833
and I would be the one to decide like,
do you get a refund?

2322
02:05:49,833 --> 02:05:51,001
Do you not get a refund?

2323
02:05:51,001 --> 02:05:53,754
Do you get a percentage of a refund?

2324
02:05:53,754 --> 02:05:55,839
Like how how is that figured out?

2325
02:05:55,839 --> 02:05:59,218
And we would do that by looking at,
you know, obviously

2326
02:05:59,218 --> 02:06:01,679
the reputation of both the buyer
and the seller.

2327
02:06:03,847 --> 02:06:05,849
We would also
look at like the account age.

2328
02:06:06,267 --> 02:06:07,726
We would look and see if like

2329
02:06:08,727 --> 02:06:09,728
they had accounts on

2330
02:06:09,728 --> 02:06:12,481
other Darknet markets,
how reputable they were.

2331
02:06:13,774 --> 02:06:16,694
And then there were like
there are some like

2332
02:06:18,153 --> 02:06:20,489
there are some of them
that were very easy because like,

2333
02:06:21,240 --> 02:06:25,411
you know, someone who puts in a, you know,
they put in to buy something

2334
02:06:26,161 --> 02:06:29,665
and five days later they open a dispute
and it's like, you know,

2335
02:06:29,665 --> 02:06:31,917
this is an Amazon,

2336
02:06:32,293 --> 02:06:34,253
you know, well, next day shipping here.

2337
02:06:34,253 --> 02:06:35,754
I mean, like I mean, there are vendors

2338
02:06:35,754 --> 02:06:37,923
that have it, don't get me wrong,
they reach for shipping.

2339
02:06:38,215 --> 02:06:39,300
But like,

2340
02:06:39,967 --> 02:06:42,845
I'm not granting your dispute, you know,

2341
02:06:43,429 --> 02:06:46,348
because you haven't gotten in five days
like you're going away.

2342
02:06:46,348 --> 02:06:50,894
And if you don't want to wait,
then if this vendor is cool with it,

2343
02:06:52,104 --> 02:06:54,315
he can give me your tracking. No.

2344
02:06:54,315 --> 02:06:57,318
And I'll look into it
and see if he actually shipped it.

2345
02:06:57,610 --> 02:07:01,697
And if he did ship it where it is or like,
you know, you should be asking

2346
02:07:02,031 --> 02:07:03,907
if he's cool with giving it up. Yeah.

2347
02:07:03,907 --> 02:07:06,285
And you should be asking, you know,

2348
02:07:07,911 --> 02:07:10,122
so there
was a lot of ways to figure out disputes,

2349
02:07:10,122 --> 02:07:13,542
but like you do have those ways
where it's like

2350
02:07:14,877 --> 02:07:16,629
he send me this box.

2351
02:07:16,629 --> 02:07:17,963
I got it in ten days.

2352
02:07:17,963 --> 02:07:21,091
The box was full of rocks.

2353
02:07:21,091 --> 02:07:23,344
Okay, Do you have pictures of the box?

2354
02:07:23,344 --> 02:07:26,555
Did you video the opening of it? No.

2355
02:07:27,848 --> 02:07:28,932
All right.

2356
02:07:29,141 --> 02:07:31,727
Like in that case,
I have to look at their reputation

2357
02:07:32,311 --> 02:07:36,315
and it might just be like, you know,
kind of like that story in the Bible.

2358
02:07:36,315 --> 02:07:39,860
We, you know, you really do,
you know, cut the baby in half.

2359
02:07:40,069 --> 02:07:40,903
You know.

2360
02:07:41,737 --> 02:07:42,655
Like.

2361
02:07:44,031 --> 02:07:48,744
Depending again, depending on reputation
of the vendor, reputation of the buyer.

2362
02:07:49,286 --> 02:07:51,372
You do that into consideration about like,

2363
02:07:51,914 --> 02:07:55,000
you know, as a dark vendor,
you should have your terms and conditions

2364
02:07:55,542 --> 02:07:58,337
so solid
that that's not even signed up for.

2365
02:07:58,962 --> 02:07:59,755
Oh, yeah.

2366
02:07:59,755 --> 02:08:02,591
I'm like,
I know I would ship without tracking.

2367
02:08:02,883 --> 02:08:07,805
I'm like, if you wanted like,
you know, an eighth of read or something

2368
02:08:07,805 --> 02:08:11,642
or like a gram of coke, I would be like,
Hey, listen, like I can ship with tracking

2369
02:08:11,642 --> 02:08:16,063
or without a really small amount,
but my terms and conditions,

2370
02:08:16,063 --> 02:08:19,983
if you don't want to pay
the extra $10 for shipping

2371
02:08:21,068 --> 02:08:23,028
and I'm
sending you without a tracking number

2372
02:08:23,028 --> 02:08:25,614
you have no ability to dispute,

2373
02:08:27,032 --> 02:08:28,867
would you have the tracking number?

2374
02:08:28,867 --> 02:08:30,160
You just didn't give it?

2375
02:08:30,160 --> 02:08:31,870
No. So like, I wouldn't have it.

2376
02:08:31,870 --> 02:08:32,204
I would.

2377
02:08:32,204 --> 02:08:35,207
I would mail
Miller would just would just stamps.

2378
02:08:35,416 --> 02:08:40,713
So like, I might take it and like,
break up your cannabis, compress it

2379
02:08:40,754 --> 02:08:45,509
into a flat, rolls of a dollar
and seal it up with the plastic bags

2380
02:08:45,759 --> 02:08:51,348
and put it in a literal way envelope,
put some stamps on it and mail it out.

2381
02:08:51,348 --> 02:08:54,476
Now you're shipping
is 1 to 2 bucks instead of,

2382
02:08:54,768 --> 02:08:56,687
you know, 15 bucks, but

2383
02:08:56,687 --> 02:08:59,022
you don't know when it's going to arrive
and if it doesn't arrive.

2384
02:08:59,231 --> 02:09:00,566
So my problem.

2385
02:09:00,566 --> 02:09:01,150
Is it's.

2386
02:09:01,150 --> 02:09:04,153
Clearly stated in my terms
and conditions that

2387
02:09:04,903 --> 02:09:06,947
if you elect David ship this way

2388
02:09:07,573 --> 02:09:11,618
and that's on you
and I have multiple ways of of shipping.

2389
02:09:11,618 --> 02:09:14,913
So you could have had that insurance
and had a guarantee.

2390
02:09:14,913 --> 02:09:17,166
Now if you elect to have shipping

2391
02:09:18,250 --> 02:09:19,418
tracking

2392
02:09:19,835 --> 02:09:22,755
and when I ship if you're like hey man
it's been ten days, I didn't get it.

2393
02:09:23,714 --> 02:09:26,967
First thing I'm going to do
is I'm going to look up that package

2394
02:09:27,676 --> 02:09:31,805
and I'm going to say, Oh, okay,
it's being held right now for like

2395
02:09:31,805 --> 02:09:37,561
it was delivered on the 23rd at 1015
and it was left on the porch.

2396
02:09:38,145 --> 02:09:41,356
Well,
I didn't get it, but that's not my problem

2397
02:09:43,567 --> 02:09:46,195
if it's delivered, it's delivered.

2398
02:09:46,195 --> 02:09:49,573
It's up to you
to supply a legitimate delivery address

2399
02:09:49,573 --> 02:09:51,325
where you can get a package.

2400
02:09:51,325 --> 02:09:53,535
So if you don't get it, that's on you.

2401
02:09:53,535 --> 02:09:56,955
Now, if it was never delivered,

2402
02:09:57,164 --> 02:09:58,373
that's totally different.

2403
02:09:58,373 --> 02:10:00,042
Like now this is a delivery.

2404
02:10:00,042 --> 02:10:02,085
I'd be like, okay you had two options.

2405
02:10:02,377 --> 02:10:05,714
I'll either resend like,
you know, you bought half a pound a week,

2406
02:10:05,923 --> 02:10:08,133
I'll send you another half a pound, a weed

2407
02:10:09,218 --> 02:10:11,261
completely free,

2408
02:10:12,221 --> 02:10:16,433
no charge for shipping,
no charge for the product or resend you

2409
02:10:16,433 --> 02:10:21,939
the full purchase at a different address
or with a different name

2410
02:10:22,898 --> 02:10:25,984
or I'll give you 50% of your money back.

2411
02:10:29,780 --> 02:10:31,490
But you make that choice.

2412
02:10:31,490 --> 02:10:33,575
Yeah, that's good. I'm.

2413
02:10:36,161 --> 02:10:39,039
I've interviewed you other

2414
02:10:40,749 --> 02:10:44,044
vendors before and I'm always like, Man,
I wish you were my hookup.

2415
02:10:44,294 --> 02:10:46,755
Is that what everyone's against?

2416
02:10:46,755 --> 02:10:49,132
That's like, you know, the Civic?

2417
02:10:49,132 --> 02:10:49,925
Like, very.

2418
02:10:49,925 --> 02:10:50,300
I don't know.

2419
02:10:50,300 --> 02:10:54,805
They're very careful and calculated it
and they just imagine buying something

2420
02:10:54,805 --> 02:10:58,183
from some wacko and nothing comes right
and it's all trash.

2421
02:10:58,517 --> 02:10:59,142
Yeah. Yeah.

2422
02:10:59,142 --> 02:11:02,145
I never mind the fact that, I mean you,
you're know, if this douche bag sprayed

2423
02:11:02,145 --> 02:11:04,606
fender on it
like the guy you got it from, like.

2424
02:11:05,232 --> 02:11:06,900
Like real life dealers.

2425
02:11:06,900 --> 02:11:08,443
I can't, like, I can't stand them.

2426
02:11:08,443 --> 02:11:09,069
They should be one.

2427
02:11:09,069 --> 02:11:11,113
But, like,
I can't stand him because it's like,

2428
02:11:11,113 --> 02:11:14,533
you know, even if it's, let's say, it's
something simple, like an abyss, right?

2429
02:11:14,825 --> 02:11:18,829
I go,
I buy cannabis off someone and he's like,

2430
02:11:18,996 --> 02:11:20,205
you know, I'm really back in the day.

2431
02:11:20,205 --> 02:11:24,877
You be like, Oh, like what kind of,
you know, kind of how he uses OJ Drew.

2432
02:11:27,045 --> 02:11:28,630
Okay, dumb ass.

2433
02:11:28,630 --> 02:11:31,925
Listen, Jarrod is sure for hydroponics,

2434
02:11:32,092 --> 02:11:36,013
that's the method of growing,
not the strain it is.

2435
02:11:36,305 --> 02:11:37,389
You idiot.

2436
02:11:37,389 --> 02:11:37,890
You're you mean.

2437
02:11:37,890 --> 02:11:39,892
I mean, it's like saying
it's like saying a.

2438
02:11:40,267 --> 02:11:43,353
A. What kind of operating system
are you using?

2439
02:11:43,896 --> 02:11:46,732
It uses electricity.

2440
02:11:46,899 --> 02:11:49,151
Well, what's it.

2441
02:11:49,151 --> 02:11:52,321
What did you just say to me?

2442
02:11:52,321 --> 02:11:54,907
It. There's no way you're this stupid,
you know?

2443
02:11:54,907 --> 02:11:55,574
I mean, it's like.

2444
02:11:55,574 --> 02:12:00,746
It's like listening to Dual-Core here
to help at the end of the song,

2445
02:12:00,829 --> 02:12:03,582
you know, the guy who's complaining about
I was Mouse doesn't work,

2446
02:12:03,749 --> 02:12:07,002
and it's still in the package,
you know, like you're a moron.

2447
02:12:07,210 --> 02:12:09,796
You know, like, you know. And.

2448
02:12:09,880 --> 02:12:10,672
But this is the guy.

2449
02:12:10,672 --> 02:12:13,133
You're buying it off
and but that's my point.

2450
02:12:13,133 --> 02:12:16,553
Like, he has no clue
what kind it is, where it was.

2451
02:12:16,720 --> 02:12:18,722
Does it have pesticides sprayed on it?

2452
02:12:18,722 --> 02:12:20,557
Does it have that No. Sprayed on it?

2453
02:12:20,557 --> 02:12:23,602
It is no,
you know, is really no much of anything.

2454
02:12:23,769 --> 02:12:25,187
That's why he's doing what he's doing.

2455
02:12:26,521 --> 02:12:28,023
Okay. So

2456
02:12:28,273 --> 02:12:30,025
what kind of

2457
02:12:31,860 --> 02:12:35,197
what what kind of payment
were you accepting?

2458
02:12:36,490 --> 02:12:39,993
So yeah, Bitcoin Bitcoin only.

2459
02:12:40,243 --> 02:12:41,203
Yeah. That was it.

2460
02:12:41,203 --> 02:12:44,915
I know a lot of guys they go Monero
and like I say, if I was doing it now.

2461
02:12:44,957 --> 02:12:50,170
Monroe Like when I was vending,
I remember Monroe being $19 right?

2462
02:12:50,170 --> 02:12:51,797
So it.

2463
02:12:51,797 --> 02:12:54,633
It was not what it is today,

2464
02:12:55,759 --> 02:12:59,846
but you did have like Libertas,
which was a Darknet

2465
02:13:00,347 --> 02:13:06,186
that was exclusively accepting
Monroe as payment.

2466
02:13:06,186 --> 02:13:09,439
It wouldn't accept anything else,

2467
02:13:09,439 --> 02:13:11,233
which my understanding is they moved to

2468
02:13:11,233 --> 02:13:14,277
HP and then got busted,

2469
02:13:14,277 --> 02:13:16,405
which I actually just learned
the other day,

2470
02:13:17,072 --> 02:13:19,825
making a documentary about dark

2471
02:13:20,242 --> 02:13:23,745
and like going through the history
because it's crazy.

2472
02:13:23,745 --> 02:13:24,997
But I'm

2473
02:13:26,915 --> 02:13:27,958
yeah, I figure, I figure whereas.

2474
02:13:27,958 --> 02:13:30,335
You know, okay, so washing
money is what I want to know.

2475
02:13:30,335 --> 02:13:32,379
How what did you do to cash out?

2476
02:13:32,379 --> 02:13:33,171
Super easy.

2477
02:13:33,171 --> 02:13:35,716
Yeah, that's,
that's probably one of the easiest things.

2478
02:13:35,716 --> 02:13:37,634
So there's a ton of guys who like,

2479
02:13:38,885 --> 02:13:41,763
Yeah, convoluted ways. But

2480
02:13:43,181 --> 02:13:45,642
I think the simplest way to out

2481
02:13:46,351 --> 02:13:47,894
is with drugs

2482
02:13:48,729 --> 02:13:49,438
and be like, what.

2483
02:13:49,438 --> 02:13:50,897
The hell you.

2484
02:13:50,897 --> 02:13:53,483
So it was so I.

2485
02:13:53,942 --> 02:13:57,029
You know it's it's super easy
like you know

2486
02:13:57,237 --> 02:14:00,699
at the end here's here's the thing right
so in Vermont

2487
02:14:01,950 --> 02:14:05,954
where like around
where I live like a really good grade.

2488
02:14:06,163 --> 02:14:07,247
Good, good, good.

2489
02:14:07,247 --> 02:14:10,333
So we buy run you like, you know,

2490
02:14:10,333 --> 02:14:16,715
to 25 to 50 a show on the darknet.

2491
02:14:17,257 --> 02:14:19,301
Like I can go and

2492
02:14:21,970 --> 02:14:24,806
like one of my favorite vendors,
he retired

2493
02:14:26,266 --> 02:14:27,601
and he's awesome.

2494
02:14:27,601 --> 02:14:28,727
He's awesome.

2495
02:14:31,271 --> 02:14:33,356
A. Would list.

2496
02:14:33,732 --> 02:14:37,360
Like, I remember the best deal
I ever got from this guy.

2497
02:14:37,360 --> 02:14:41,114
He was selling popcorn buds of Blue Dream,

2498
02:14:42,324 --> 02:14:44,534
and he would only he would sell quantity.

2499
02:14:44,826 --> 02:14:47,621
So you going to have to buy read to £10

2500
02:14:47,996 --> 02:14:50,415
at a minimum from this guy at the time.

2501
02:14:50,832 --> 02:14:51,792
But that's great.

2502
02:14:51,792 --> 02:14:56,922
You know, so but like the best deal
I ever got, I forget how much I bought,

2503
02:14:56,922 --> 02:15:01,802
but I remember I did the math on it
and I ended up being 30 bucks an ounce

2504
02:15:02,177 --> 02:15:06,139
and it's seedless,
you know, very few sticks.

2505
02:15:06,473 --> 02:15:08,058
But the buds were just they were small.

2506
02:15:08,058 --> 02:15:11,436
They were like your thumb
but like 30 bucks an ounce.

2507
02:15:11,603 --> 02:15:12,187
So like,

2508
02:15:13,271 --> 02:15:13,688
like my

2509
02:15:13,688 --> 02:15:16,233
cashier would be like, buy
a bunch in is weed.

2510
02:15:16,817 --> 02:15:19,945
And anyone that I knew in my area

2511
02:15:20,862 --> 02:15:24,366
that I knew was like a social butterfly,
you know, and I knew

2512
02:15:25,283 --> 02:15:27,494
would keep their mouths shut,
I would turn around.

2513
02:15:27,494 --> 02:15:32,457
I would say, Hey, man, listen,
you know, I will sell you, you know,

2514
02:15:32,874 --> 02:15:37,963
a pound of this weed for 1600 bucks
and I'll give it to you upfront.

2515
02:15:38,463 --> 02:15:40,423
Now, that's 100 bucks an ounce.

2516
02:15:40,423 --> 02:15:45,178
Again, the typical price in that area
was due 25 to 50.

2517
02:15:45,470 --> 02:15:50,016
This guy can turn around, sell ounces
for 150, undercut everyone

2518
02:15:50,225 --> 02:15:54,396
by almost a hundred bucks
and make a good amount of money.

2519
02:15:54,729 --> 02:15:58,150
And he never put up any money
and he would be able to do that

2520
02:15:58,483 --> 02:16:03,113
and come back with that
in like a week to two weeks.

2521
02:16:04,489 --> 02:16:08,160
So I'm getting cash

2522
02:16:08,326 --> 02:16:09,911
from all different sources.

2523
02:16:09,911 --> 02:16:10,912
You know,

2524
02:16:12,664 --> 02:16:15,125
that has no

2525
02:16:15,125 --> 02:16:17,961
and I know there's no traceable route.

2526
02:16:18,003 --> 02:16:22,215
You mean as he goes through the proxy,
which is this local dealer

2527
02:16:22,465 --> 02:16:27,262
who, you know, if this guy does get
busted, he's not going to rat me out.

2528
02:16:27,846 --> 02:16:31,558
The guy, he's selling him a pound for 600
bucks, 100 bucks an ounce.

2529
02:16:31,892 --> 02:16:32,976
He's not going to round me out.

2530
02:16:32,976 --> 02:16:36,730
He's going to rat out the guy
selling him an ounce for 175.

2531
02:16:37,939 --> 02:16:40,901
Why would he burn his best connect

2532
02:16:40,901 --> 02:16:44,154
if he's going to snatch, he's going
to snitch on the guy who's screwing over.

2533
02:16:44,279 --> 02:16:47,532
He's going to snitch on that guy
who is to sell him Grams for 20 bucks.

2534
02:16:48,867 --> 02:16:49,075
Know?

2535
02:16:49,492 --> 02:16:53,413
So I'm going to buy his loyalty,
but I'm also tripling my money.

2536
02:16:56,041 --> 02:16:56,708
Yeah.

2537
02:16:56,708 --> 02:16:57,167
So, I.

2538
02:16:57,167 --> 02:16:59,419
Mean, so that's one way of cash. Now,
that would make sense.

2539
02:16:59,419 --> 02:17:00,253
I like it.

2540
02:17:00,253 --> 02:17:03,465
So alternatively, aside from that,

2541
02:17:03,465 --> 02:17:05,759
like one of the one,
the things that I had to do

2542
02:17:05,759 --> 02:17:08,261
was, you know, there's a ton of sites
that accept Bitcoin

2543
02:17:09,012 --> 02:17:12,807
and use Bitcoin to buy
just about anything.

2544
02:17:13,683 --> 02:17:14,684
And I did.

2545
02:17:14,684 --> 02:17:18,980
But like the precursor
to any Bitcoin trends,

2546
02:17:19,439 --> 02:17:22,275
any Bitcoin transaction or spending

2547
02:17:22,609 --> 02:17:26,029
that dirty crypto anywhere

2548
02:17:26,029 --> 02:17:27,656
is for me.

2549
02:17:27,656 --> 02:17:30,367
I've never used a bitcoin
tumbling service.

2550
02:17:30,700 --> 02:17:33,828
I think they're retarded.

2551
02:17:33,828 --> 02:17:35,705
First off, I'm not paying

2552
02:17:35,705 --> 02:17:37,707
anyone a percentage

2553
02:17:39,125 --> 02:17:42,545
who's going to take double digit
percentages to clean

2554
02:17:42,545 --> 02:17:45,632
my money and I have no verification
that that's what you do.

2555
02:17:47,050 --> 02:17:47,717
But it

2556
02:17:49,886 --> 02:17:53,056
so what I'd much rather do
is take my bitcoin

2557
02:17:53,056 --> 02:17:56,142
and like back in the day,
I don't know if they still do it.

2558
02:17:56,142 --> 02:18:01,481
I have a massive crypto as you know,
it went to prison and I'm like,

2559
02:18:03,733 --> 02:18:06,111
what I would do is I would hop on.

2560
02:18:06,111 --> 02:18:08,488
You got like shapeshift at IO, right?

2561
02:18:08,863 --> 02:18:11,032
ShapeShift IO is a site that

2562
02:18:12,284 --> 02:18:15,120
you to you I know again, I don't know
if it still exists used to be able

2563
02:18:15,120 --> 02:18:19,916
to exchange cryptocurrencies,
you know, with no account information.

2564
02:18:19,916 --> 02:18:23,920
So like I can take bitcoin,
send it to them, exchange they send me

2565
02:18:24,170 --> 02:18:27,757
whatever cryptocurrency I tell them
to send me, which for me was Monroe.

2566
02:18:29,676 --> 02:18:31,052
So I would exchange like that.

2567
02:18:31,052 --> 02:18:34,556
And then like the
the rate is ridiculously low. Like

2568
02:18:35,932 --> 02:18:39,060
I remember exchanging like ten grand
I think one time and it was like,

2569
02:18:40,353 --> 02:18:42,480
like five bucks, you know, Hey.

2570
02:18:43,356 --> 02:18:45,525
It's like. Like a money. Launderer.

2571
02:18:45,817 --> 02:18:48,820
Like in real life
is probably going to charge you like ten.

2572
02:18:49,070 --> 02:18:52,032
So like 25%, you know, way more

2573
02:18:52,824 --> 02:18:57,037
the depending on who they are
and you know who you are. But

2574
02:18:58,830 --> 02:19:01,666
so I love that because I could do it
almost instantly.

2575
02:19:01,666 --> 02:19:03,251
I could do it with no account information.

2576
02:19:03,251 --> 02:19:05,587
But so here's the thing.

2577
02:19:05,587 --> 02:19:07,047
So I mentioned shapeshift.

2578
02:19:07,047 --> 02:19:08,048
I oh,

2579
02:19:08,631 --> 02:19:12,510
again, going back to OPSEC and security,

2580
02:19:13,511 --> 02:19:17,057
you know, you don't just Google a site,
find it and use it.

2581
02:19:17,057 --> 02:19:19,225
That works great.
You're not doing anything illegal.

2582
02:19:19,517 --> 02:19:22,354
But like if you're doing illegal stuff,
you need to look them up.

2583
02:19:22,354 --> 02:19:26,483
So like, I looked up, shapeshift,
audio and like, I found out that,

2584
02:19:26,983 --> 02:19:31,613
you know, a basically any time
the feds ask for anything, they bent over.

2585
02:19:32,197 --> 02:19:34,532
No, and they had no qualms.

2586
02:19:34,532 --> 02:19:38,870
It's like they like beefs with the feds,
like, you know, just like, you know,

2587
02:19:38,912 --> 02:19:44,000
Sprint and AT&T, you know, they're all
you know, they're all in love together. So

2588
02:19:45,251 --> 02:19:47,170
it was I guess screw them, show
the other side that.

2589
02:19:47,170 --> 02:19:50,048
I looked at
I was Changeling and I had found like

2590
02:19:50,465 --> 02:19:54,177
some stuff on them, but like,
it was significantly less.

2591
02:19:54,177 --> 02:19:57,639
So even though, like,
I'm, I'm accessing the site

2592
02:19:58,056 --> 02:19:59,641
through Tor

2593
02:20:02,435 --> 02:20:03,853
so it doesn't really matter

2594
02:20:03,853 --> 02:20:06,731
if they are talking to the feds, but

2595
02:20:08,775 --> 02:20:12,195
I just
I was, you know, I was security conscious.

2596
02:20:12,195 --> 02:20:13,363
So like

2597
02:20:13,905 --> 02:20:16,950
as many gaps as I could create

2598
02:20:17,200 --> 02:20:21,496
between me and what I was doing
was exactly what I would do.

2599
02:20:21,496 --> 02:20:24,666
And that's
kind of like the definition of OPSEC.

2600
02:20:26,501 --> 02:20:27,710
But I would switch my currency

2601
02:20:27,710 --> 02:20:29,796
from Bitcoin tomorrow back to Bitcoin,

2602
02:20:30,880 --> 02:20:34,092
and then I would spend it
pretty much wherever I know.

2603
02:20:34,759 --> 02:20:37,554
Towards the end I ended up ah,

2604
02:20:37,846 --> 02:20:43,560
like found this one vendor
on the darknet called Gold, Gold and

2605
02:20:44,978 --> 02:20:46,855
what he would do is

2606
02:20:46,855 --> 02:20:50,191
he would charge you 5 to 10%

2607
02:20:50,942 --> 02:20:54,487
and you would send him your bitcoin
and he would send you cash mail.

2608
02:20:55,989 --> 02:20:58,241
And I love that system.

2609
02:20:58,241 --> 02:21:00,452
And at the end of the day,

2610
02:21:00,827 --> 02:21:03,913
that's the reason the feds try to say,

2611
02:21:04,539 --> 02:21:09,461
for me, being busted is they be like,
oh, like we busted these dirty

2612
02:21:09,461 --> 02:21:12,630
three darknet vendors through Operation
Dark Gold

2613
02:21:14,883 --> 02:21:18,511
and like,

2614
02:21:19,721 --> 02:21:22,807
if you if you actually look at this,
if you look at the history of it,

2615
02:21:22,807 --> 02:21:26,895
if you go into Pacer and you look at like,
you know,

2616
02:21:27,645 --> 02:21:30,523
when for like they proposed
a fringe hearing and all this other stuff,

2617
02:21:30,732 --> 02:21:34,527
you'll see that that wasn't the case
and this is the big thing.

2618
02:21:34,527 --> 02:21:38,531
So at the end of the day, back
then KYC or a know

2619
02:21:38,531 --> 02:21:42,452
your customer policies existed,
but they were only applicable.

2620
02:21:42,452 --> 02:21:43,369
I don't know if they still are,

2621
02:21:43,369 --> 02:21:46,331
but they're only applicable
to banking institutions.

2622
02:21:47,415 --> 02:21:48,875
So like

2623
02:21:49,334 --> 02:21:54,172
there were some states that implemented
it, but they weren't heavy on enforce it.

2624
02:21:54,589 --> 02:21:57,675
So like local bitcoins had it there.

2625
02:21:57,675 --> 02:22:00,929
It was like, like you could make
a local bitcoins account and do like

2626
02:22:00,929 --> 02:22:06,476
$2,000 worth of transactions
and you didn't have to verify at all,

2627
02:22:06,726 --> 02:22:09,979
you know, So like there were days
where I spent the whole day

2628
02:22:09,979 --> 02:22:12,357
making local bitcoins

2629
02:22:13,399 --> 02:22:16,778
account,
you know, like, I'm going to this today.

2630
02:22:17,570 --> 02:22:19,948
I am going to spend all day

2631
02:22:19,948 --> 02:22:23,618
and I'm going to make 400 local Bitcoin
accounts.

2632
02:22:25,411 --> 02:22:26,412
Yeah.

2633
02:22:27,830 --> 02:22:30,375
So and it was really convenient
because it was like local bitcoins.

2634
02:22:30,375 --> 02:22:33,753
I can switch my I can switch it up,
I can use fake information

2635
02:22:33,753 --> 02:22:38,841
and I'm swapping, you know, my bitcoins,
which I've already cleaned out to

2636
02:22:39,801 --> 02:22:40,385
an Amazon

2637
02:22:40,385 --> 02:22:45,682
credit card, out to a direct deposit,
out to cash in the mail, out

2638
02:22:45,682 --> 02:22:48,643
to meeting someone in them,
handing me cash

2639
02:22:50,645 --> 02:22:51,479
so you could do this.

2640
02:22:51,479 --> 02:22:57,610
I mean, you had a little bit like,
I would like to go out and buy Bitcoin

2641
02:22:57,819 --> 02:23:02,949
and do it consistently and then build up
enough rapport with that seller where

2642
02:23:03,908 --> 02:23:07,453
now I have his cell phone
and we do private sales.

2643
02:23:08,037 --> 02:23:10,039
Yeah, you know, that's.
Where you need to get, to.

2644
02:23:10,081 --> 02:23:12,917
So like that's kind of,
you know how that, how it all works.

2645
02:23:12,917 --> 02:23:16,754
But like I'm getting like going back to it
like,

2646
02:23:17,171 --> 02:23:19,215
you know as long as you
so anyway so they would be like,

2647
02:23:19,424 --> 02:23:22,468
oh like, you know,
we caught him because he was showing

2648
02:23:22,468 --> 02:23:25,722
his Bitcoin and,
you know, that's how we caught it.

2649
02:23:25,722 --> 02:23:27,849
But, but it was nonsense because

2650
02:23:28,975 --> 02:23:33,021
you can me bitcoin legally all day know.

2651
02:23:33,688 --> 02:23:35,940
Yeah. It's not illegal you know.

2652
02:23:36,524 --> 02:23:38,318
Yeah. So but they were like but they were.

2653
02:23:38,318 --> 02:23:40,320
Like there's this guy.

2654
02:23:40,320 --> 02:23:41,321
And did you work with him?

2655
02:23:41,321 --> 02:23:43,364
Did you,
did you buy bitcoin from him or sell.

2656
02:23:43,364 --> 02:23:45,700
Bitcoin to him. No. So I sold bitcoin.
Yeah.

2657
02:23:46,743 --> 02:23:47,660
Yeah. Okay.

2658
02:23:47,660 --> 02:23:50,038
So he got caught, right?

2659
02:23:50,038 --> 02:23:54,584
And then he worked with the feds catching
other people that were on the darknet.

2660
02:23:55,627 --> 02:23:58,838
His people would send him
bitcoin and obviously, like

2661
02:23:58,963 --> 02:24:02,175
who is going to send bitcoin
to a guy advertising on the darknet?

2662
02:24:02,592 --> 02:24:05,136
Probably Darknet vendors, right?

2663
02:24:05,261 --> 02:24:08,931
Or people want to,
you know, cash out Bitcoin Anonymous.

2664
02:24:09,432 --> 02:24:10,183
Right?

2665
02:24:12,060 --> 02:24:14,854
So like they were let go
Bo because this guy

2666
02:24:14,854 --> 02:24:19,317
was buying Bitcoin on the darknet
and because they the United States

2667
02:24:19,317 --> 02:24:22,362
attorney's big thing was you paid 10%

2668
02:24:22,862 --> 02:24:26,115
your cash are your bitcoin and that shows

2669
02:24:27,158 --> 02:24:28,993
criminal intent.

2670
02:24:28,993 --> 02:24:32,205
And I was like, the one thing I said to
my defense lawyer, I'm like,

2671
02:24:32,205 --> 02:24:36,250
Dude, you know, there are Bitcoin ATMs
that charge 10%, right?

2672
02:24:36,250 --> 02:24:38,878
Like. And it's not.

2673
02:24:38,878 --> 02:24:41,547
And I'm like, that makes no sense.

2674
02:24:41,673 --> 02:24:42,799
You know

2675
02:24:43,675 --> 02:24:44,258
what?

2676
02:24:44,258 --> 02:24:46,594
Like it's like,
Yeah, I'm going to sell you

2677
02:24:47,595 --> 02:24:49,597
a, you know, a $250

2678
02:24:49,597 --> 02:24:53,267
microphone for, you know, $200.

2679
02:24:53,267 --> 02:24:57,772
And that guarantees that it's stolen
the feds idiotic, that is.

2680
02:24:57,939 --> 02:25:02,026
And like, I like to apply that
and say like, you know, like,

2681
02:25:02,235 --> 02:25:05,738
like you put that in like a viewpoint
of like the law where it's like,

2682
02:25:06,280 --> 02:25:08,866
you know,
where you're trying to hold someone to

2683
02:25:09,701 --> 02:25:13,204
guilt beyond a reasonable doubt,
Like you have no stance

2684
02:25:13,413 --> 02:25:16,416
because there is so much
doubt built into that right.

2685
02:25:18,376 --> 02:25:19,544
So, so,

2686
02:25:19,544 --> 02:25:23,631
so so you you've told to this guy
and then what was the first

2687
02:25:24,757 --> 02:25:26,259
like contact from the police?

2688
02:25:26,259 --> 02:25:27,844
Did you ever get a love letter
before that?

2689
02:25:27,844 --> 02:25:29,846
No, I never got a love letter ever.

2690
02:25:31,931 --> 02:25:32,265
All right.

2691
02:25:32,265 --> 02:25:34,809
So what was the first contact
from the police?

2692
02:25:34,809 --> 02:25:38,646
So I went one day and so I used do.

2693
02:25:38,646 --> 02:25:38,980
All right.

2694
02:25:38,980 --> 02:25:43,025
So at my house, obviously,
I'm very careful like, I never invite

2695
02:25:43,025 --> 02:25:45,486
no one ever comes to my house.

2696
02:25:45,486 --> 02:25:47,447
You know, no one comes to me.

2697
02:25:47,447 --> 02:25:48,698
So, like,

2698
02:25:50,825 --> 02:25:52,577
the only people that ever
came to my house,

2699
02:25:52,577 --> 02:25:55,580
if you knocked on the door,
like, try so paintings

2700
02:25:55,580 --> 02:25:59,125
because again, like where I'm living,
it's an affluent area, right?

2701
02:25:59,375 --> 02:26:01,502
So people would knock on door,
try to sell paintings,

2702
02:26:01,753 --> 02:26:04,672
or they'd knock on a job as witnesses
would come and knock on the door.

2703
02:26:06,674 --> 02:26:09,844
So I get a knock on the door.

2704
02:26:09,927 --> 02:26:12,346
So like I'd say like

2705
02:26:12,346 --> 02:26:14,265
715 in the morning.

2706
02:26:14,265 --> 02:26:16,267
So the guy just stole my coffee.

2707
02:26:16,267 --> 02:26:17,810
I'm like a sip of my coffee.

2708
02:26:17,810 --> 02:26:21,898
I walk to the door, I open the door
expecting it to be Jehovah's Witness.

2709
02:26:22,315 --> 02:26:25,109
Only people in the last
three years have came to my door.

2710
02:26:25,234 --> 02:26:26,527
So I open the door.

2711
02:26:26,527 --> 02:26:29,071
We always witnesses like I open the door

2712
02:26:29,322 --> 02:26:33,075
and there's this dude standing there.

2713
02:26:33,242 --> 02:26:38,247
He's got a bulletproof
vest, he's got a badge that's sewn

2714
02:26:38,247 --> 02:26:41,459
into the bulletproof vest
that I've never seen this pair.

2715
02:26:43,503 --> 02:26:46,088
And he's holding up a piece of paper,

2716
02:26:46,088 --> 02:26:50,551
and I won't say his name,
but he's like, Hi, my name's so-and-so.

2717
02:26:51,427 --> 02:26:54,430
I'm a special agent
with the of Homeland Security.

2718
02:26:54,806 --> 02:26:56,516
And this is a federal search warrant.

2719
02:26:57,934 --> 02:26:59,727
And like, I'm
sitting there and I'm holding my coffee

2720
02:26:59,727 --> 02:27:04,106
and I'm looking back at this guy and I'm
looking at 30 people that are behind

2721
02:27:04,106 --> 02:27:07,944
this guy and have amplifiers and ski masks

2722
02:27:07,944 --> 02:27:10,112
with skulls on them on and like

2723
02:27:12,323 --> 02:27:13,783
like this is before college.

2724
02:27:13,783 --> 02:27:16,077
So seeing someone with a mask is is weird.

2725
02:27:16,118 --> 02:27:19,956
You mean so, like,
I see all these people behind this guy

2726
02:27:20,122 --> 02:27:23,334
and they're all looking through
the windows, also the nonsense. And,

2727
02:27:24,335 --> 02:27:27,880
you know, he's like, Oh, I'm
with the Department of Homeland Security.

2728
02:27:28,130 --> 02:27:29,799
I have a federal search warrant.

2729
02:27:29,799 --> 02:27:32,301
And I was like, Oh, okay.

2730
02:27:32,718 --> 02:27:35,054
I guess you want to come in there now?

2731
02:27:35,054 --> 02:27:37,098
And he was like, Yeah, how's it going?

2732
02:27:37,098 --> 02:27:40,726
So as he starts walking
in, I'm like, Listen,

2733
02:27:41,352 --> 02:27:46,274
there's, you know, there's two adult
females, you know, one's my cousin

2734
02:27:46,691 --> 02:27:49,402
and one's my ex,
and then there are three children

2735
02:27:49,694 --> 02:27:52,822
in the house
because I don't want them, you know,

2736
02:27:53,823 --> 02:27:55,658
they like to play like they're in Iraq.

2737
02:27:55,658 --> 02:27:57,994
You know,
I don't want them running through,

2738
02:27:57,994 --> 02:28:01,747
you know, pointing an MP five,
you know, my sons and my daughter,

2739
02:28:02,081 --> 02:28:05,918
you know, and like, you know,
you know, scaring the shit out of me.

2740
02:28:05,918 --> 02:28:07,336
I want them to know who's in there

2741
02:28:07,336 --> 02:28:10,548
so they're not scared, you know,
because if they're not scared,

2742
02:28:11,048 --> 02:28:13,801
they might be a little bit more relaxed
when they were.

2743
02:28:13,801 --> 02:28:17,346
And they were they were
there's a pretty courteous, calm.

2744
02:28:17,346 --> 02:28:20,766
And that was
that was my first interaction with them.

2745
02:28:23,519 --> 02:28:26,105
And just as a step back here,

2746
02:28:29,400 --> 02:28:32,528
kids in the house with the whole drug lab.

2747
02:28:33,279 --> 02:28:34,030
Yeah. Yeah.

2748
02:28:34,030 --> 02:28:36,449
There's no there's, there's no lab.

2749
02:28:36,449 --> 02:28:39,493
And it was like the room that I had like

2750
02:28:39,493 --> 02:28:42,830
the cannabis
in was separate from the main house.

2751
02:28:42,830 --> 02:28:45,291
So that wasn't
something that they were around.

2752
02:28:45,958 --> 02:28:47,293
And the packaging and all that.

2753
02:28:47,293 --> 02:28:50,129
They never and there wasn't a
that was in a clean room, right. Yeah.

2754
02:28:50,129 --> 02:28:51,547
So they didn't see any of that.

2755
02:28:51,547 --> 02:28:55,301
And all the narcotics
that I have were kept in a safe in there.

2756
02:28:56,052 --> 02:28:56,469
Okay.

2757
02:28:58,471 --> 02:28:58,846
All right.

2758
02:28:58,846 --> 02:29:01,349
So, so they come through,
they see all this stuff.

2759
02:29:02,558 --> 02:29:02,767
Yeah.

2760
02:29:02,767 --> 02:29:06,896
So what they do is they, they raid,
they go through, they find this so.

2761
02:29:07,688 --> 02:29:11,067
All right, so moving back a little bit,
one thing like my

2762
02:29:11,150 --> 02:29:14,654
that my cousin had been worried about,
but she was like, all right, let's see.

2763
02:29:14,654 --> 02:29:16,572
We do this and like, we get caught.

2764
02:29:16,572 --> 02:29:19,909
I was like, listen,
if we get caught because I screwed up,

2765
02:29:20,910 --> 02:29:22,286
I'm in charge of everything.

2766
02:29:22,286 --> 02:29:24,205
You know, I'm in charge of the security.

2767
02:29:24,205 --> 02:29:26,624
I'm in charge of everything that goes on.

2768
02:29:26,958 --> 02:29:30,753
So if something doesn't go right
and it's my fault.

2769
02:29:32,171 --> 02:29:35,383
So I was like, listen, if so, if they come
and they raid us, like,

2770
02:29:35,383 --> 02:29:36,342
I'll tell them it was all.

2771
02:29:36,342 --> 02:29:39,261
Me because at the end of the day,
why am I not you know,

2772
02:29:39,929 --> 02:29:42,098
if I don't,
then they're going to put it on everyone.

2773
02:29:42,848 --> 02:29:44,308
So like when they came in, you know,

2774
02:29:44,308 --> 02:29:46,185
they searched
and they're they're going through

2775
02:29:46,185 --> 02:29:49,146
and they come and they see me like,
oh, any, any drugs in the house.

2776
02:29:49,522 --> 02:29:51,065
I was like, Yeah, they're upstairs.

2777
02:29:51,065 --> 02:29:52,400
They're in my safe.

2778
02:29:52,400 --> 02:29:54,902
No, they're all mine on the dark. Never.

2779
02:29:55,361 --> 02:29:56,278
And were like, What?

2780
02:29:58,739 --> 02:30:00,533
And they're, they're blown away.

2781
02:30:00,533 --> 02:30:01,867
But like again,

2782
02:30:02,243 --> 02:30:07,957
I had an agreement with my cousin prior
to this that if this happened,

2783
02:30:08,124 --> 02:30:10,710
worst case scenario,
we had a ton of contingency plans.

2784
02:30:10,960 --> 02:30:11,544
That's part

2785
02:30:11,544 --> 02:30:15,881
of having good operational security
and having good information security.

2786
02:30:15,881 --> 02:30:16,590
Boss.

2787
02:30:16,632 --> 02:30:21,303
It's like, you know, do you have an
incident response policy to your work?

2788
02:30:21,637 --> 02:30:27,101
So didn't we you know,
and this was agreed to prior to anything.

2789
02:30:27,435 --> 02:30:31,230
So like that was the thing like reiterated
I admit everything was mine.

2790
02:30:31,313 --> 02:30:34,650
And I did say, listen, I'm
a darkness vendor, everything's mine,

2791
02:30:35,234 --> 02:30:38,112
which is a combination of the safe
game. The

2792
02:30:38,112 --> 02:30:38,654
what do I do?

2793
02:30:38,654 --> 02:30:40,197
Say No, I'm going to open it anyways.

2794
02:30:40,197 --> 02:30:43,826
So like, you know,
so they opened it up by a bunch of hash,

2795
02:30:43,826 --> 02:30:46,287
which they like, Oh,
there's a bunch of heroin in here.

2796
02:30:47,163 --> 02:30:49,957
Ash, Like, Oh, it looks like tar heroin.

2797
02:30:50,583 --> 02:30:51,292
All right.

2798
02:30:51,375 --> 02:30:52,835
It was really they feel tested.

2799
02:30:52,835 --> 02:30:54,712
It comes back against huge morons.

2800
02:30:56,005 --> 02:30:57,214
But But like,

2801
02:30:58,758 --> 02:31:00,843
so that was that was my first interaction.

2802
02:31:00,843 --> 02:31:03,846
But like I admitted, you know,

2803
02:31:04,263 --> 02:31:07,016
like what I what I had, who I was

2804
02:31:07,641 --> 02:31:10,811
and what I had done,

2805
02:31:10,811 --> 02:31:13,898
that I was a Darknet vendor

2806
02:31:13,898 --> 02:31:17,234
and that like, you know, I had sold drugs,

2807
02:31:18,277 --> 02:31:19,737
but that was it.

2808
02:31:19,737 --> 02:31:21,614
That's where it ended.

2809
02:31:22,031 --> 02:31:27,495
And they left his like they
they knew about my cousin.

2810
02:31:27,745 --> 02:31:31,791
They had seen her go to the post office,
but they didn't know

2811
02:31:31,791 --> 02:31:34,627
they knew I existed
but they thought I worked with computers.

2812
02:31:34,835 --> 02:31:40,299
They weren't expecting what they found,
you know, like they

2813
02:31:40,633 --> 02:31:44,303
they were expecting prior
to to find her with drugs.

2814
02:31:44,720 --> 02:31:48,099
And that was it.

2815
02:31:48,099 --> 02:31:48,766
Now, did they.

2816
02:31:48,766 --> 02:31:50,768
Take your take your cousin or take you.

2817
02:31:50,768 --> 02:31:54,188
Know, they didn't take care of us because
they didn't arrest warrants at the time.

2818
02:31:54,522 --> 02:31:56,482
They just had a search warrant.

2819
02:31:56,482 --> 02:32:01,570
But so they took every then
they lab tested it, documented everything,

2820
02:32:02,780 --> 02:32:04,990
and then they took off

2821
02:32:05,116 --> 02:32:08,494
and like, you know, we'll be in touch.

2822
02:32:09,411 --> 02:32:10,913
And, you know, they were

2823
02:32:10,913 --> 02:32:12,998
they came back a short while later
and they were like,

2824
02:32:14,542 --> 02:32:15,376
you know, they made this.

2825
02:32:15,376 --> 02:32:17,837
They said, listen, like

2826
02:32:18,212 --> 02:32:20,923
in the time that you were a vendor.

2827
02:32:20,923 --> 02:32:23,926
So I think is like in
total was like a half, two years.

2828
02:32:24,385 --> 02:32:26,470
They were like, in the short time
that you were a vendor,

2829
02:32:26,470 --> 02:32:30,641
you have crawled into more crevices

2830
02:32:30,975 --> 02:32:35,646
and learned more about this culture
and seeped into this culture

2831
02:32:36,147 --> 02:32:39,066
than we've been able to do six years.

2832
02:32:39,817 --> 02:32:44,071
Because like in my short period of time,
I inserted myself into the community

2833
02:32:44,405 --> 02:32:48,033
and, you know, I ended up
working with these kids and, you know,

2834
02:32:48,409 --> 02:32:49,577
starting up dread.

2835
02:32:49,577 --> 02:32:53,455
And like I had become
I had made myself an indispensable

2836
02:32:54,582 --> 02:32:57,293
part of the community by contributing,

2837
02:32:58,460 --> 02:33:01,964
you know,
and contributing in meaningful ways.

2838
02:33:03,757 --> 02:33:05,050
And that's of, you know, made me

2839
02:33:05,050 --> 02:33:07,511
valuable to the community and and,

2840
02:33:08,888 --> 02:33:11,056
you know, they said, hey, listen, like,
you know,

2841
02:33:11,515 --> 02:33:14,894
someone with your knowledge, like,
we could absolutely use that.

2842
02:33:14,894 --> 02:33:19,815
And, you know, going forward,
we'd like to bring you a laptop And,

2843
02:33:20,065 --> 02:33:25,070
you know, you can you can continue taking
orders and and, you know, vending, you're

2844
02:33:25,070 --> 02:33:28,866
not actually going be sending drugs,
but you're just gathering information.

2845
02:33:28,866 --> 02:33:30,993
And and I was like, yeah, I'm fine.

2846
02:33:30,993 --> 02:33:32,077
I'm what?

2847
02:33:32,077 --> 02:33:33,329
Yeah, I'm good.

2848
02:33:33,329 --> 02:33:33,495
Yeah.

2849
02:33:33,495 --> 02:33:36,081
I remember I had been to County before.

2850
02:33:36,332 --> 02:33:38,417
I had been in state prison. Really?

2851
02:33:38,584 --> 02:33:40,711
And I'm I'm served in Italy.

2852
02:33:40,920 --> 02:33:43,422
Yeah. Are you kidding me?
Like I work with cartels.

2853
02:33:43,422 --> 02:33:45,883
Do you mean I work with multiple cartels?

2854
02:33:46,217 --> 02:33:47,218
You think?

2855
02:33:47,468 --> 02:33:48,677
Oh, like.

2856
02:33:48,886 --> 02:33:51,013
Like, I don't know. I'm going
to tell on people. Think

2857
02:33:52,097 --> 02:33:52,598
I'm good.

2858
02:33:52,598 --> 02:33:53,724
I have a family, man.

2859
02:33:53,724 --> 02:33:54,600
You mean like.

2860
02:33:54,600 --> 02:33:55,976
Like I did this for my family.

2861
02:33:55,976 --> 02:33:59,772
Now you think I'm going
to risk their lives to get out of

2862
02:34:00,314 --> 02:34:03,859
whatever punishment's coming?

2863
02:34:03,859 --> 02:34:04,777
Yeah. Yeah.

2864
02:34:04,777 --> 02:34:05,986
You're delusional.

2865
02:34:05,986 --> 02:34:08,113
I'd die for them. I'd kill for them.

2866
02:34:08,614 --> 02:34:10,074
They're my family.

2867
02:34:10,074 --> 02:34:11,825
You mean so,

2868
02:34:12,493 --> 02:34:13,327
like, you know, they.

2869
02:34:13,327 --> 02:34:14,870
They obviously didn't like that.

2870
02:34:14,870 --> 02:34:17,081
And what ended up happening was

2871
02:34:20,542 --> 02:34:23,295
I had I borrowed some money from a family
member

2872
02:34:23,587 --> 02:34:26,465
is now at this point like that house
they planned on getting.

2873
02:34:26,465 --> 02:34:27,675
Obviously I'm not getting it.

2874
02:34:27,675 --> 02:34:30,552
Feds took their bubble's burst.

2875
02:34:30,552 --> 02:34:35,266
So, like,
you know, I had moved to an apartment.

2876
02:34:36,183 --> 02:34:40,604
You know, in a in a in a different city,
which, you know, going from

2877
02:34:40,604 --> 02:34:43,899
like the mansion that I was actually this
the Shiraz apartment was horrible. But

2878
02:34:45,276 --> 02:34:45,818
one thing that

2879
02:34:45,818 --> 02:34:48,612
I had, I had had that I had never had,

2880
02:34:49,738 --> 02:34:52,616
and doing that was my wife,

2881
02:34:52,616 --> 02:34:55,911
who I had met on the phone
through my actually through my cousin.

2882
02:34:56,245 --> 02:34:58,539
And we had spent two years talking

2883
02:34:59,206 --> 02:35:02,293
and like she didn't know, obviously
she'd know anything about what I was doing

2884
02:35:02,293 --> 02:35:03,794
because it would be in the eye

2885
02:35:03,794 --> 02:35:06,797
sockets to be a massive OPSEC
risk grade to tell her.

2886
02:35:07,798 --> 02:35:11,760
So like I just told her that like I had
a business and I wasn't specific about it.

2887
02:35:12,136 --> 02:35:14,471
And like,
we learned a lot about each other

2888
02:35:14,471 --> 02:35:18,767
as I was like doing my venting and she
was, you know, completely unaware of it.

2889
02:35:18,767 --> 02:35:22,229
And like, after I got raided,
I lost all my electronics.

2890
02:35:22,479 --> 02:35:24,857
So I, like,
lost her number. I lost all her info.

2891
02:35:26,191 --> 02:35:28,777
So I had to go, like, you know,
find it all.

2892
02:35:29,486 --> 02:35:32,406
And my cousin was able to do it
through her Facebook.

2893
02:35:32,406 --> 02:35:36,785
And like, I remember contacting her
and being like, you know,

2894
02:35:38,954 --> 02:35:41,707
she was like, Oh, like, you haven't
talked to me in like four days.

2895
02:35:41,707 --> 02:35:42,916
Like, is there an issue?

2896
02:35:42,916 --> 02:35:45,919
And I was like, No,
I got raided by the feds,

2897
02:35:45,919 --> 02:35:48,964
you know, And it's like it's like,
you know, those Jews are like,

2898
02:35:49,006 --> 02:35:52,217
like, breakable with a woman
and tell her that like, Oh, I'm a spy.

2899
02:35:53,635 --> 02:35:54,970
Oh, yeah, it's true.

2900
02:35:54,970 --> 02:35:55,512
I was like, You get.

2901
02:35:55,512 --> 02:35:57,681
Raided by Department of Homeland Security.

2902
02:35:57,931 --> 02:36:01,393
They came in 30 deep in cooperation with

2903
02:36:02,519 --> 02:36:05,856
the the state police to be a backup state.

2904
02:36:06,065 --> 02:36:08,150
Their backup was state police.

2905
02:36:08,525 --> 02:36:11,528
And like the cyber crimes
task force came in and.

2906
02:36:11,945 --> 02:36:12,988
And she's like, Yeah,

2907
02:36:14,198 --> 02:36:15,407
all right, whatever, Sam.

2908
02:36:15,407 --> 02:36:17,993
Like, listen, if you don't want to talk to
me, you just tell me.

2909
02:36:19,119 --> 02:36:21,288
Like, I swear to God,

2910
02:36:21,288 --> 02:36:23,457
I got raided
by the Department of Homeland.

2911
02:36:25,417 --> 02:36:26,919
You know, obviously.

2912
02:36:26,919 --> 02:36:29,088
You know,
she ended up learning that it was true.

2913
02:36:29,380 --> 02:36:31,799
Then where did you take in?

2914
02:36:31,799 --> 02:36:33,842
And then she ended up

2915
02:36:33,842 --> 02:36:38,097
moving from where was living up to up here

2916
02:36:38,639 --> 02:36:39,848
with like, with me,

2917
02:36:39,848 --> 02:36:42,017
because I told her I was like, listen,
like I have this indictment.

2918
02:36:42,017 --> 02:36:43,310
I was like, just forget about me.

2919
02:36:43,310 --> 02:36:45,104
I'm probably going to do 20 years,

2920
02:36:45,104 --> 02:36:46,814
you know, like, like cause
we wanted to get married.

2921
02:36:46,814 --> 02:36:48,315
We had learned we'd fell in love

2922
02:36:48,315 --> 02:36:52,111
by talking to each other,
and we fell in love intellectually.

2923
02:36:52,694 --> 02:36:54,196
I didn't know what she looked like.

2924
02:36:54,196 --> 02:36:56,198
And I didn't think she knew
what I look like.

2925
02:36:56,198 --> 02:36:58,117
We spent two years talking to her.

2926
02:36:58,117 --> 02:37:01,412
I hated I wouldn't take a selfie
because of my opsec.

2927
02:37:01,662 --> 02:37:01,870
Yeah,

2928
02:37:02,871 --> 02:37:05,666
it so. So

2929
02:37:05,666 --> 02:37:08,293
like, after I got raided, like,
I ended up talking to her,

2930
02:37:08,293 --> 02:37:11,213
I said to her, Sophie is now like,
Who's going to raid me now?

2931
02:37:11,380 --> 02:37:12,256
You know?

2932
02:37:12,548 --> 02:37:14,383
And she's like, Oh, look, I know.

2933
02:37:14,383 --> 02:37:15,551
Yeah, I know you look like that

2934
02:37:15,551 --> 02:37:17,636
because like your cousin
and showed me a picture of you,

2935
02:37:18,220 --> 02:37:20,347
like a while ago, I was like,
Are you kidding me?

2936
02:37:20,597 --> 02:37:22,182
That was great.

2937
02:37:22,182 --> 02:37:22,975
All that stuff.

2938
02:37:22,975 --> 02:37:26,061
It's This
she sent me a picture of herself in, like,

2939
02:37:27,229 --> 02:37:30,399
and she was like, way out of my league,
you know, She was like.

2940
02:37:31,233 --> 02:37:34,194
Like, dude,
I'm like a three, you know, She

2941
02:37:34,194 --> 02:37:35,946
using easy ten?

2942
02:37:35,946 --> 02:37:38,574
Yeah, I was like.
What the hell? She's like.

2943
02:37:39,324 --> 02:37:42,119
Usually gets No, look, this is like,
there she is.

2944
02:37:42,119 --> 02:37:43,245
She's like, You're handsome.

2945
02:37:43,245 --> 02:37:44,455
And it was a guy.

2946
02:37:44,455 --> 02:37:45,581
It whatever.

2947
02:37:45,581 --> 02:37:46,999
Like, I'm not going to argue with you.

2948
02:37:48,000 --> 02:37:48,542
I got.

2949
02:37:48,542 --> 02:37:51,295
Imposter syndrome. Okay?

2950
02:37:51,295 --> 02:37:53,505
I'm like, No way. But

2951
02:37:53,922 --> 02:37:56,633
but she, you know, I was like,
Listen, I'm going to get 20 years.

2952
02:37:56,633 --> 02:37:58,135
And she was like,

2953
02:37:58,385 --> 02:38:00,179
I was like, Yo, just forget about me.
You know?

2954
02:38:00,179 --> 02:38:03,015
We be friends stuff. And she was like,

2955
02:38:03,015 --> 02:38:06,226
she's like,
Listen, it's not all about you.

2956
02:38:06,226 --> 02:38:08,187
I was like, What did you think?

2957
02:38:08,187 --> 02:38:08,937
I love you?

2958
02:38:08,937 --> 02:38:11,315
Like, I'm not I don't
I don't care how long you get know.

2959
02:38:12,983 --> 02:38:15,444
And that was that was pretty incredible.

2960
02:38:16,236 --> 02:38:19,990
But like, it was I had I had had people
in the past who had been in my life

2961
02:38:19,990 --> 02:38:24,369
who had said they were stick with me
through a a prison term.

2962
02:38:24,495 --> 02:38:25,204
And they did.

2963
02:38:25,204 --> 02:38:27,789
And so, like, I was very leery of it.

2964
02:38:27,789 --> 02:38:30,918
And that's why I kind of like just didn't
want her have to deal with that.

2965
02:38:30,918 --> 02:38:34,796
I knew how much pain and agony
was going to be going forward, and

2966
02:38:36,048 --> 02:38:36,632
she did.

2967
02:38:36,632 --> 02:38:37,966
Man, it was crazy.

2968
02:38:37,966 --> 02:38:39,885
She stuck with me

2969
02:38:40,636 --> 02:38:42,721
through my everything,
through my sentencing,

2970
02:38:42,721 --> 02:38:45,057
through my actual prison incarceration.

2971
02:38:45,057 --> 02:38:49,144
Like, so when I was in prison,
I ended up putting in a motion

2972
02:38:49,144 --> 02:38:52,814
for compassionate release
after I spent 18 months studying law.

2973
02:38:53,273 --> 02:38:55,359
But like, I would have never done that.

2974
02:38:55,359 --> 02:38:59,530
Like, the only reason I did
it was because she encouraged me to do it.

2975
02:38:59,821 --> 02:39:02,157
He was like, You can't quit fighting.
You can't quit fighting.

2976
02:39:02,366 --> 02:39:05,118
That's how like that
you're that hacker mentality of like,

2977
02:39:05,118 --> 02:39:07,371
you're going to fail
99% of the time, you know?

2978
02:39:07,371 --> 02:39:10,916
I mean, like and and you
but you just keep trying because it's

2979
02:39:11,041 --> 02:39:14,586
it's about that 1% that you make it
And like she encouraged you.

2980
02:39:14,586 --> 02:39:16,630
She's like,
you know, don't give up you're going.

2981
02:39:16,630 --> 02:39:17,631
And I kept going and

2982
02:39:18,590 --> 02:39:22,052
I filed and, you know, I won my freedom.

2983
02:39:22,427 --> 02:39:24,763
But like she was a massive part of

2984
02:39:25,305 --> 02:39:28,559
of all of the good things
that came out of it.

2985
02:39:30,269 --> 02:39:33,730
So she was your girlfriend going in
and then you later married her?

2986
02:39:33,897 --> 02:39:34,189
Yeah.

2987
02:39:34,189 --> 02:39:39,278
So so we
we had been talking for like two years.

2988
02:39:39,653 --> 02:39:41,989
Like the whole time I had been venting,
we had been talking.

2989
02:39:42,281 --> 02:39:43,657
She had no idea about it.

2990
02:39:43,657 --> 02:39:46,535
But like, I learned her life story
by talking to you,

2991
02:39:46,535 --> 02:39:50,289
we had had conversations
where we were talking for 12 hours a day.

2992
02:39:51,790 --> 02:39:54,084
You know, she like, I'm
trying to like trim cannabis.

2993
02:39:54,084 --> 02:39:58,088
Plants that fill up,
you know, a 20 gallon water buckets and,

2994
02:39:58,297 --> 02:40:02,050
you know, point out labels and managing.

2995
02:40:02,050 --> 02:40:05,804
To still talk to her for 12 hours,
you know, and that's addition to,

2996
02:40:05,929 --> 02:40:07,222
you know, three children.

2997
02:40:07,222 --> 02:40:10,267
So at that same time, I'm also like,

2998
02:40:10,267 --> 02:40:13,770
you know, making them breakfast,
lunch, dinner, they're homeschool.

2999
02:40:13,895 --> 02:40:17,858
So making sure they're doing their own
schooling while I'm managing this

3000
02:40:18,942 --> 02:40:20,068
empire.

3001
02:40:20,068 --> 02:40:25,324
And, you know, learning about this
amazing person who.

3002
02:40:25,616 --> 02:40:25,866
You know.

3003
02:40:25,866 --> 02:40:28,452
Was one of the first people
to ever have faith in.

3004
02:40:28,827 --> 02:40:30,912
And I've you know, that
I've met in my life.

3005
02:40:32,623 --> 02:40:34,041
And it was just

3006
02:40:34,041 --> 02:40:36,960
it was a
it was a really interesting experience.

3007
02:40:36,960 --> 02:40:40,255
But like, yeah, so like after
I got raided, like, I told her,

3008
02:40:40,297 --> 02:40:44,217
you know and then, you know, my,
my endgame and all that, and then like,

3009
02:40:44,801 --> 02:40:49,723
like things with my ex got really bad,
so I ended up moving out and me

3010
02:40:49,723 --> 02:40:53,602
and her moved in together
and that's like really when we solidified

3011
02:40:53,602 --> 02:40:55,562
that, you know, we had, we had one.

3012
02:40:55,562 --> 02:40:59,608
We had been engaged on the phone
before I even matter,

3013
02:40:59,608 --> 02:41:02,903
like me going to Mass like,
so she lived in Rhode Island.

3014
02:41:02,903 --> 02:41:06,114
So me going to Mass was risky
because I still had warrants.

3015
02:41:08,367 --> 02:41:08,700
So if

3016
02:41:08,700 --> 02:41:11,119
I got pulled over in Mass,
I'm not leaving.

3017
02:41:11,745 --> 02:41:14,247
I'm here. Yeah, you know.

3018
02:41:14,289 --> 02:41:17,918
Okay, So you end up marrying her, right
Yeah.

3019
02:41:18,168 --> 02:41:19,961
Yeah.
She was crazy enough to actually say.

3020
02:41:19,961 --> 02:41:22,130
Yeah. Yeah,

3021
02:41:22,297 --> 02:41:23,590
yeah, yeah. And you stayed.

3022
02:41:23,590 --> 02:41:27,135
You stopped by me through my
my little sense and,

3023
02:41:27,511 --> 02:41:31,807
you know, to this day, she's my
my biggest advocate, my biggest fan.

3024
02:41:32,182 --> 02:41:32,933
Whenever.

3025
02:41:32,933 --> 02:41:35,143
Whenever, like, cause
I get into these crazy projects

3026
02:41:35,143 --> 02:41:38,146
and she'll be that one that know
they're encouraging me

3027
02:41:38,689 --> 02:41:41,733
and, you know, help me through it all.

3028
02:41:41,983 --> 02:41:45,028
Oh, oh, I'm going to try and wrap this up
next ten, 15 minutes.

3029
02:41:45,028 --> 02:41:46,988
Okay. So.

3030
02:41:46,988 --> 02:41:49,950
So how did they know about your cousin?

3031
02:41:51,451 --> 02:41:54,496
Oh, so so my point

3032
02:41:54,496 --> 02:41:57,499
with the
with the whole previous of the story was

3033
02:41:59,501 --> 02:42:02,254
we didn't know she lied to feds.

3034
02:42:02,254 --> 02:42:06,091
Like, oh, like, you know, we caught him
because he cashed out Bitcoin,

3035
02:42:06,216 --> 02:42:09,511
which makes no sense
because, again, it's a legal transact. And

3036
02:42:11,221 --> 02:42:13,265
so what actually happened

3037
02:42:13,265 --> 02:42:15,434
was my cousin got complacent.

3038
02:42:16,226 --> 02:42:16,935
What a shock.

3039
02:42:16,935 --> 02:42:21,106
You know, as as security people,
you know, like and some were very used to,

3040
02:42:22,566 --> 02:42:25,986
you know, give me your password
for a choco bar, you know.

3041
02:42:26,737 --> 02:42:28,989
So like,

3042
02:42:29,906 --> 02:42:32,492
what she was doing is
she would go to the post office

3043
02:42:33,076 --> 02:42:36,496
with, you know, 12 packages.

3044
02:42:36,496 --> 02:42:38,582
I remember what I said.

3045
02:42:38,832 --> 02:42:41,960
Repackages
would have one return address on them

3046
02:42:42,127 --> 02:42:45,547
the next three would have a different
return address from a different town.

3047
02:42:45,756 --> 02:42:49,259
So she's going there with all.

3048
02:43:07,861 --> 02:43:08,528
Okay, I'm back.

3049
02:43:08,528 --> 02:43:10,071
Can you? Me? Yeah. Okay.

3050
02:43:11,031 --> 02:43:12,365
So She's

3051
02:43:12,365 --> 02:43:17,621
going to the post office with like
our agreed upon number was three packages

3052
02:43:18,038 --> 02:43:20,248
and now those three packages
had the same worker.

3053
02:43:20,791 --> 02:43:25,587
Now she's going to the post office
with 12, 15, 20 packages.

3054
02:43:25,837 --> 02:43:30,634
And remember, every three packages
has a different return address.

3055
02:43:30,759 --> 02:43:33,303
So she's going in some cases with,

3056
02:43:34,012 --> 02:43:36,473
you know, six different return addresses.

3057
02:43:38,391 --> 02:43:40,185
So like, they're like,
what the hell is this?

3058
02:43:40,185 --> 02:43:41,269
But again,

3059
02:43:41,770 --> 02:43:44,773
that is not enough for a warrant.

3060
02:43:45,106 --> 02:43:48,985
It's suspicious
and it's reasonable suspicion,

3061
02:43:49,361 --> 02:43:51,488
but it is not probable cause.

3062
02:43:54,366 --> 02:43:56,952
So what ended up happening
was the United States

3063
02:43:56,952 --> 02:44:01,039
postal inspector
just cut open a package with no warrant.

3064
02:44:01,414 --> 02:44:05,085
Cut open the the package.

3065
02:44:05,293 --> 02:44:08,088
He cut open the visual barrier, cut

3066
02:44:08,088 --> 02:44:12,551
open the three layers of vacuum sealed.

3067
02:44:12,759 --> 02:44:14,177
And he found some coke.

3068
02:44:15,345 --> 02:44:17,722
And then they used that Coke

3069
02:44:19,057 --> 02:44:21,852
to apply for a federal search warrant
for the house.

3070
02:44:22,060 --> 02:44:24,187
After
They followed my cousin back to the house.

3071
02:44:24,938 --> 02:44:26,565
And the.

3072
02:44:26,648 --> 02:44:29,776
So, like, for the longest time,
I was angry at my cousin

3073
02:44:29,776 --> 02:44:33,697
because I was like, you know,
you didn't follow security policy

3074
02:44:33,947 --> 02:44:36,616
and now you're potentially costing me

3075
02:44:37,117 --> 02:44:39,578
200 years in prison

3076
02:44:39,911 --> 02:44:44,165
because you were too lazy to drive,
even though you built for it.

3077
02:44:44,291 --> 02:44:47,127
You were too lazy to do your job
and drive to these different.

3078
02:44:47,335 --> 02:44:49,504
I was like,

3079
02:44:49,504 --> 02:44:51,715
I came to the realization
that at the end of the day,

3080
02:44:52,757 --> 02:44:54,384
it's not her fault.

3081
02:44:54,384 --> 02:44:55,635
It's my fault.

3082
02:44:55,635 --> 02:44:57,971
I was in charge, right?

3083
02:44:57,971 --> 02:45:00,974
That it was on me to supervise her

3084
02:45:01,474 --> 02:45:04,603
and I didn't do a good enough job
doing that.

3085
02:45:04,936 --> 02:45:06,187
And that's why we are raided.

3086
02:45:06,187 --> 02:45:09,482
So even my OPSEC at the end of the day and

3087
02:45:09,482 --> 02:45:13,361
my information
security policies were so on point

3088
02:45:13,361 --> 02:45:16,740
that I would have never had
an issue with Bond for ever,

3089
02:45:19,576 --> 02:45:22,495
which was of toe. To

3090
02:45:22,495 --> 02:45:25,832
toe to kind of prove
that answer went down.

3091
02:45:25,832 --> 02:45:30,670
Your stuff is all over that database
that was taken over by the Fed. Yep.

3092
02:45:30,670 --> 02:45:34,382
They did a massive arrest on that. Yep.

3093
02:45:35,133 --> 02:45:36,426
Hundreds of people in the U.S.

3094
02:45:36,426 --> 02:45:38,428
and so it was European, but they never.

3095
02:45:38,428 --> 02:45:40,096
Should be an NGO.

3096
02:45:40,096 --> 02:45:42,098
That did hundreds of arrests in the U.S..

3097
02:45:42,098 --> 02:45:44,351
Or dealers, mostly vendors.

3098
02:45:44,643 --> 02:45:46,144
Yeah, you weren't one of them.

3099
02:45:46,144 --> 02:45:48,313
So that kind of proves that you were

3100
02:45:49,606 --> 02:45:51,274
upset was right.

3101
02:45:51,274 --> 02:45:52,150
Right, right.

3102
02:45:52,150 --> 02:45:56,112
And like I said,
I had sure had gotten in my discovery.

3103
02:45:56,112 --> 02:45:59,115
I got in times where hello to my discovery

3104
02:45:59,324 --> 02:46:03,995
and the feds actually bought drugs off me
like 20 times.

3105
02:46:04,371 --> 02:46:08,500
They bought coke,
they bought LSD, They cannabis.

3106
02:46:09,250 --> 02:46:12,337
And the only thing they didn't buy
was moonshine, but they bought pretty much

3107
02:46:12,671 --> 02:46:13,546
everything.

3108
02:46:14,673 --> 02:46:15,882
And like,

3109
02:46:15,966 --> 02:46:18,218
there was nothing for there's
no fingerprints, there's no hair,

3110
02:46:18,510 --> 02:46:22,305
not even microscopic DNA, like nothing.

3111
02:46:23,348 --> 02:46:25,600
And, you know,
at the end of the day, again, it was like

3112
02:46:26,476 --> 02:46:29,854
that smallest thing,
you know, is what caused it.

3113
02:46:29,854 --> 02:46:32,023
And that was her complacency and

3114
02:46:33,024 --> 02:46:37,988
my being overwhelmed,
doing all these jobs, you know,

3115
02:46:38,321 --> 02:46:40,365
having my attention so divided

3116
02:46:40,991 --> 02:46:45,453
that I did not do a proper job in

3117
02:46:47,205 --> 02:46:49,416
monitoring her

3118
02:46:49,416 --> 02:46:51,793
and making sure
that she was doing her job correctly.

3119
02:46:52,335 --> 02:46:55,005
So the real kicker, this is their

3120
02:46:57,132 --> 02:46:57,882
we get raided.

3121
02:46:57,882 --> 02:47:00,301
I tell them, you know, it's all mine.

3122
02:47:00,301 --> 02:47:02,804
So I go for my arraignment, right?

3123
02:47:03,096 --> 02:47:04,764
So now I move out of the house.

3124
02:47:04,764 --> 02:47:06,850
I was in to a different apartment.

3125
02:47:06,850 --> 02:47:10,478
So this the Department of Homeland
Security showed up on the day

3126
02:47:10,478 --> 02:47:14,607
of my arraignment to that old house
because they didn't know I moved.

3127
02:47:14,941 --> 02:47:18,194
They wanted to arrest there
and bring me into court

3128
02:47:18,194 --> 02:47:20,822
and handcuffs,
but I didn't live there anymore.

3129
02:47:21,281 --> 02:47:23,992
And the geniuses
didn't know I didn't live there anymore.

3130
02:47:24,743 --> 02:47:27,871
And so, you know, the rock stars, they are

3131
02:47:29,122 --> 02:47:32,125
you know, they had no clue where I was.

3132
02:47:32,125 --> 02:47:34,627
So my ex had told them,

3133
02:47:34,627 --> 02:47:38,965
oh, he moved
in, you know, with his fiancee.

3134
02:47:38,965 --> 02:47:40,300
And this is the address.

3135
02:47:40,300 --> 02:47:43,678
And by the time they got to this address,
I was already halfway

3136
02:47:43,678 --> 02:47:47,140
to the federal courthouse
to go turn myself in to the U.S.

3137
02:47:47,140 --> 02:47:50,185
Marshals for my arraignment.

3138
02:47:51,561 --> 02:47:53,063
So I go

3139
02:47:53,063 --> 02:47:57,609
I get out of the car at the United States
District Court in Burlington, Vermont.

3140
02:47:58,234 --> 02:48:01,237
I see my lawyer, who is amazing.

3141
02:48:01,237 --> 02:48:03,907
Stephanie
Green lives a nominal federal lawyer.

3142
02:48:06,201 --> 02:48:08,536
And well, I know.

3143
02:48:08,995 --> 02:48:09,579
All right.

3144
02:48:09,704 --> 02:48:11,414
So going back a little bit.

3145
02:48:11,414 --> 02:48:14,834
So what ended up happening was

3146
02:48:16,711 --> 02:48:20,173
I had admitted to everything
and I was the only one charged.

3147
02:48:20,173 --> 02:48:25,929
So what ended up happening was my lawyer
had applied for what's the Franks hearing?

3148
02:48:25,929 --> 02:48:26,638
A phrase hearing is

3149
02:48:26,638 --> 02:48:30,600
when you can show law enforcement
broke the law in order to catch you.

3150
02:48:31,851 --> 02:48:34,938
This was my security policy from the start

3151
02:48:35,647 --> 02:48:38,024
it was like,
if you guys are going to catch me,

3152
02:48:38,024 --> 02:48:40,485
I'm going to make this maze
so complicated that

3153
02:48:40,652 --> 02:48:43,696
you're going to have to jump over a wall
in order to do it.

3154
02:48:43,863 --> 02:48:47,367
And then, of course, like it's that
whole thing you see, like on Law and Order

3155
02:48:47,534 --> 02:48:49,577
where it's like,
oh, fruit of the poisonous tree.

3156
02:48:49,786 --> 02:48:53,206
You know, they broke the law in order
to do this, so everything's invalidated.

3157
02:48:53,331 --> 02:48:55,041
And that was another part of my plan.

3158
02:48:55,041 --> 02:48:58,336
That's why I was ready to admit to it
so readily.

3159
02:48:58,336 --> 02:48:59,420
I knew my rights.

3160
02:48:59,420 --> 02:49:02,507
I knew I wasn't
under any obligation to talk.

3161
02:49:02,757 --> 02:49:05,093
I knew that I was better off
asking for a lawyer.

3162
02:49:06,177 --> 02:49:08,721
But I also knew that they would most
likely have to break the law

3163
02:49:08,721 --> 02:49:09,848
in order to bust me.

3164
02:49:09,848 --> 02:49:11,975
And that if that's the case
and I admit everything

3165
02:49:12,142 --> 02:49:16,604
and they get everything everything's got
there's nothing else they can do.

3166
02:49:16,729 --> 02:49:20,650
If every if everything from that arrest,
from that original search

3167
02:49:20,650 --> 02:49:22,902
warrant is thrown out, there's no case.

3168
02:49:24,404 --> 02:49:25,780
Now, keep in mind,

3169
02:49:25,780 --> 02:49:28,199
the feds have a conviction rate of 99%.

3170
02:49:28,575 --> 02:49:29,742
They don't lose.

3171
02:49:29,742 --> 02:49:31,536
It's like you playing chess with me.

3172
02:49:31,536 --> 02:49:34,122
And I tell you all my pawns are queens.

3173
02:49:35,540 --> 02:49:37,167
I'm not going to lose, you know?

3174
02:49:37,167 --> 02:49:38,835
So that's what it's like playing them.

3175
02:49:38,835 --> 02:49:41,588
So now I got this
Franks hearing scheduled.

3176
02:49:42,213 --> 02:49:44,716
Now that said, with this Franks hearing
scheduled,

3177
02:49:46,092 --> 02:49:49,012
a Franks hearing is very difficult to get.

3178
02:49:49,262 --> 02:49:51,306
It's super, super hard to get.

3179
02:49:52,849 --> 02:49:54,434
I couldn't find one case

3180
02:49:54,434 --> 02:49:57,687
where someone got it when I was in feds
looking at the law library.

3181
02:49:58,980 --> 02:50:01,232
So it's extremely difficult
to get to the United States.

3182
02:50:01,232 --> 02:50:04,152
Attorney Dresher contacted my lawyer

3183
02:50:04,569 --> 02:50:07,614
and tells her,
I don't want to go to this Franks here.

3184
02:50:08,323 --> 02:50:09,699
So my lawyer contacted me.

3185
02:50:09,699 --> 02:50:09,949
She's like,

3186
02:50:09,949 --> 02:50:13,828
Oh, he said, he doesn't want to go to this
Frank sharing as a guy, but he woman.

3187
02:50:13,870 --> 02:50:14,120
Couldn't

3188
02:50:15,288 --> 02:50:16,206
resist hearing,

3189
02:50:16,206 --> 02:50:18,625
you know, like, we're going to prove like,
everything that.

3190
02:50:19,083 --> 02:50:19,584
They do.

3191
02:50:19,584 --> 02:50:23,046
Virtually everything you got was
it was so illegally.

3192
02:50:25,465 --> 02:50:27,675
So I guess he told her he was like,

3193
02:50:27,675 --> 02:50:31,471
listen, tell him that if he pleads guilty,

3194
02:50:32,847 --> 02:50:36,684
I'll give him a maximum of 108 months,
which is like nine years.

3195
02:50:37,685 --> 02:50:40,813
I'll give him a maximum of 108 months.

3196
02:50:41,564 --> 02:50:43,942
So if he doesn't and we go to this rank
sharing,

3197
02:50:43,942 --> 02:50:47,445
he'll get nine of the ten of his charges
dropped,

3198
02:50:47,654 --> 02:50:50,281
but he won't get his conspiracy
charge dropped.

3199
02:50:51,241 --> 02:50:53,409
And I was like, Well, what do you mean?

3200
02:50:53,409 --> 02:50:55,536
And she was like,
Oh, did you read your PSR?

3201
02:50:56,621 --> 02:50:58,206
So PSR is a pre-sentence report.

3202
02:50:58,206 --> 02:51:01,209
It's basically
the background of your life.

3203
02:51:01,209 --> 02:51:02,168
So I was like, no.

3204
02:51:02,168 --> 02:51:05,838
So I when I looked at is like page
and like on that page

3205
02:51:06,464 --> 02:51:08,049
it said Geneva's proffer.

3206
02:51:08,049 --> 02:51:12,011
So when I had first gotten arraigned
after I got out,

3207
02:51:12,011 --> 02:51:13,680
I released on my own recognizance.

3208
02:51:13,680 --> 02:51:16,516
After I got out,
my lawyer had called me up

3209
02:51:16,516 --> 02:51:19,060
and she's like, Oh,
do you want to come in and do a proffer?

3210
02:51:19,852 --> 02:51:21,729
I was like, What's a proffer?

3211
02:51:21,729 --> 02:51:23,523
And she was like, Well, proffer.

3212
02:51:23,523 --> 02:51:27,277
Like when you come in and you tell them
what you did, who you worked for.

3213
02:51:27,610 --> 02:51:30,071
Who like, who bought off you,
who did what.

3214
02:51:30,321 --> 02:51:33,825
What vendors that you worked with
and what you know about them.

3215
02:51:34,242 --> 02:51:37,120
I was like, Yo, man,
that sounds kind of like snitching to me.

3216
02:51:37,745 --> 02:51:39,789
And she was like, Well,
we don't call it that.

3217
02:51:40,123 --> 02:51:41,749
And I was in with the people I work with.

3218
02:51:41,749 --> 02:51:42,875
Would you?

3219
02:51:44,294 --> 02:51:44,752
Yeah.

3220
02:51:44,794 --> 02:51:46,504
No, I'm not doing that.

3221
02:51:46,504 --> 02:51:49,507
It's a death sentence for me,
but my family.

3222
02:51:49,507 --> 02:51:50,383
But aside from.

3223
02:51:50,383 --> 02:51:52,885
That, like, I'm just not on that kind
time.

3224
02:51:52,885 --> 02:51:56,389
Like, I'm good, you know,
I'm not going to put people in a box

3225
02:51:56,597 --> 02:51:59,267
because I'm scared about being in a box,
you know?

3226
02:51:59,267 --> 02:51:59,642
Like what?

3227
02:51:59,642 --> 02:52:00,226
I I'm a man.

3228
02:52:00,226 --> 02:52:01,060
I was so what?

3229
02:52:01,060 --> 02:52:03,855
I did accept responsibility for.

3230
02:52:03,855 --> 02:52:05,940
So it was a very so
like when when they were like,

3231
02:52:05,940 --> 02:52:09,402
oh, did you read your PSR or read page
15 or whatever.

3232
02:52:09,485 --> 02:52:11,529
And I went back and I see Geneva's proffer

3233
02:52:12,822 --> 02:52:13,614
immediately.

3234
02:52:13,614 --> 02:52:16,576
I know what a proffer is. Now.

3235
02:52:17,910 --> 02:52:20,330
And I go to her and it says, like,

3236
02:52:20,330 --> 02:52:22,373
she confesses to all this stuff, like,

3237
02:52:22,373 --> 02:52:25,168
you know, like he had me
send these packages out.

3238
02:52:25,335 --> 02:52:27,462
I didn't know it was in the packages.

3239
02:52:27,545 --> 02:52:28,004
And like,

3240
02:52:28,004 --> 02:52:30,965
I'm like, you get a percentage of every,
you know, everything

3241
02:52:30,965 --> 02:52:32,633
that was in the package,
you had a percentage it

3242
02:52:34,052 --> 02:52:35,136
you know, and.

3243
02:52:35,136 --> 02:52:39,265
Like you like you help me with the labels,
you know what?

3244
02:52:39,515 --> 02:52:42,060
So it was just
completely mind blowing. But

3245
02:52:43,394 --> 02:52:46,856
yeah, so, so I showed went into court,

3246
02:52:48,191 --> 02:52:50,026
you know, with this plea deal.

3247
02:52:50,026 --> 02:52:54,614
So I guess like so he was like,
you know, your cousin proffered on you.

3248
02:52:54,864 --> 02:52:57,200
So at the end of the day,

3249
02:52:57,825 --> 02:53:01,037
if you go to this Frank's hearing,
you'll get your nine charges dismissed

3250
02:53:01,245 --> 02:53:04,207
and like you was like possession
with intent for a bunch drugs.

3251
02:53:04,207 --> 02:53:04,957
Then the three last

3252
02:53:04,957 --> 02:53:08,711
charges were money laundering,
but the first charge was conspiracy.

3253
02:53:08,836 --> 02:53:12,173
And the reason I had that conspiracy
charge was because my cousin

3254
02:53:12,173 --> 02:53:17,428
had already proffered on
and they also charged her with conspiracy.

3255
02:53:17,428 --> 02:53:19,764
And I told her, If you don't say anything

3256
02:53:20,264 --> 02:53:23,851
and I don't say anything,
they can't prove there's a conspiracy.

3257
02:53:25,311 --> 02:53:27,688
You have to have an admission

3258
02:53:27,688 --> 02:53:30,191
or you have to be able to prove
that we conspired.

3259
02:53:31,067 --> 02:53:33,486
And as long as you don't say anything,
they won't be able to prove that.

3260
02:53:35,071 --> 02:53:35,571
And that was.

3261
02:53:35,571 --> 02:53:37,990
But unbeknownst to me,
she'd already said something

3262
02:53:38,616 --> 02:53:41,994
and she live with me
while I was on pretrial for like a year.

3263
02:53:42,078 --> 02:53:46,624
And the whole time she was giving know,
she was talking to the feds,

3264
02:53:46,666 --> 02:53:48,668
giving them evidence.

3265
02:53:50,002 --> 02:53:52,213
So it was absolutely crazy, man.

3266
02:53:52,213 --> 02:53:53,172
But like,

3267
02:53:53,798 --> 02:53:57,343
you know, the the one takeaway
that I got was like, you know what I did?

3268
02:53:57,343 --> 02:53:59,887
I did
and I did, you know, out of desperation,

3269
02:53:59,887 --> 02:54:02,765
I had done it for my family, but
it was definitely the wrong thing to do.

3270
02:54:02,932 --> 02:54:06,018
I did it so that I can have a good place
to be with my family.

3271
02:54:06,018 --> 02:54:08,354
And like the irony of me

3272
02:54:08,354 --> 02:54:11,232
becoming a drug trafficker
or an international drug trafficker

3273
02:54:11,983 --> 02:54:15,194
because I didn't want my kids
to have to live next

3274
02:54:15,194 --> 02:54:17,321
to a house full of crack addicts.

3275
02:54:17,447 --> 02:54:19,365
You know, that irony is not on me.

3276
02:54:19,365 --> 02:54:22,452
The fact that,
like I was taken away from all of them,

3277
02:54:23,536 --> 02:54:24,996
you know, I lost I lost my family.

3278
02:54:24,996 --> 02:54:27,373
I lost everything that I had worked for.

3279
02:54:27,373 --> 02:54:30,501
I had lost with the of that one constant,

3280
02:54:30,751 --> 02:54:34,338
which was my wife, who,
you know, remained in my life.

3281
02:54:34,338 --> 02:54:39,469
And and you know, how help get me through
a lot of those rough patches.

3282
02:54:40,386 --> 02:54:43,097
And I think at the end of the day,
that's really the big difference between

3283
02:54:43,306 --> 02:54:44,432
family and relatives.

3284
02:54:44,432 --> 02:54:48,144
There's people who aren't
just blood related, but the ones who,

3285
02:54:48,519 --> 02:54:52,940
you know, stick it out with you
through the worst worst of times. No.

3286
02:54:53,524 --> 02:54:53,816
Yeah.

3287
02:54:53,816 --> 02:54:57,904
So any idea
how much you made through all this?

3288
02:54:59,197 --> 02:55:00,990
I know I've.

3289
02:55:00,990 --> 02:55:01,866
I have no idea.

3290
02:55:01,866 --> 02:55:06,496
Like you said, I think the first week is
302nd week it was 500.

3291
02:55:07,163 --> 02:55:12,502
There's a bunch of dry spells in between,
but I think I'm like the last

3292
02:55:13,711 --> 02:55:16,464
last week it was probably like

3293
02:55:16,464 --> 02:55:18,633
last month, maybe it was about 20 grand

3294
02:55:18,633 --> 02:55:21,427
by every two, three days.

3295
02:55:22,011 --> 02:55:23,930
Well, I was going to say it's

3296
02:55:23,930 --> 02:55:27,517
probably less than the 200,000
that you were receiving for.

3297
02:55:28,226 --> 02:55:28,559
Right?

3298
02:55:28,559 --> 02:55:32,897
I mean, so if you were to add up,
like all the equipment and the like,

3299
02:55:32,897 --> 02:55:35,983
the drugs and like stuff like that,

3300
02:55:37,443 --> 02:55:39,904
yeah, I would
I mean, I made a good amount,

3301
02:55:39,904 --> 02:55:42,949
but like, yeah, I was
I would have been much better.

3302
02:55:42,949 --> 02:55:45,076
I'm like my sentencing judge.

3303
02:55:45,076 --> 02:55:47,495
Basically when I went in front of music,
I've never seen a crime

3304
02:55:47,495 --> 02:55:50,540
like this before.

3305
02:55:50,540 --> 02:55:54,252
And like after he sends me,
he was like, When you get out, Mr.

3306
02:55:54,252 --> 02:55:57,380
Bennett, he was like, You know,
I hope when you're on the street,

3307
02:55:57,421 --> 02:56:00,466
like, you come up to me
and you like, Yo, introduce

3308
02:56:00,633 --> 02:56:03,719
to your family and like, he's like,
you're highly intelligent.

3309
02:56:03,928 --> 02:56:07,348
I look forward to seeing you put your mind

3310
02:56:07,348 --> 02:56:10,476
towards, you know, doing productive
and and good things.

3311
02:56:10,476 --> 02:56:11,018
And that's kind of

3312
02:56:12,937 --> 02:56:14,105
I mean, I've

3313
02:56:14,105 --> 02:56:17,233
that's pretty much like what I
my goal has been

3314
02:56:18,025 --> 02:56:21,195
this entire time with getting out
kind of letting people know

3315
02:56:21,195 --> 02:56:25,032
about federal prison letting like my big
the the main motivation

3316
02:56:25,032 --> 02:56:27,076
for giving my def con buck

3317
02:56:28,077 --> 02:56:31,289
con on you know the U.S.

3318
02:56:31,330 --> 02:56:34,750
state's attorney said that these a going
you're teaching people how to sell drugs

3319
02:56:34,750 --> 02:56:37,211
and it's it's an idiotic say

3320
02:56:38,045 --> 02:56:41,257
because it's like I see a guy on YouTube
picking locks

3321
02:56:41,465 --> 02:56:44,468
and it's like that guy is teaching
burglars how to break into houses.

3322
02:56:44,468 --> 02:56:48,222
Listen, that burglar knows how
to break into your house already, okay?

3323
02:56:48,472 --> 02:56:51,267
He's not going to YouTube to learn
how to do it.

3324
02:56:51,267 --> 02:56:52,226
You know,

3325
02:56:53,185 --> 02:56:55,521
it's like,
you know, the guy who's breaking into

3326
02:56:55,521 --> 02:56:59,317
security systems is like,
go into def con to learn how to do it.

3327
02:56:59,567 --> 02:57:02,153
You know,
he most likely here he has a pretty.

3328
02:57:02,153 --> 02:57:03,738
Good idea of what.

3329
02:57:03,738 --> 02:57:07,408
A vulnerability is
and how to leverage over the next. Now.

3330
02:57:08,701 --> 02:57:10,036
So that's moronic.

3331
02:57:10,036 --> 02:57:14,707
But like my point with there was like
listen, a lot of the people who are at Def

3332
02:57:14,707 --> 02:57:19,587
Con, they're highly intelligent people,
but we can be highly intelligent.

3333
02:57:19,587 --> 02:57:21,672
But when we were put in a situation

3334
02:57:21,672 --> 02:57:24,050
where our back is against the wall,
a lot of times,

3335
02:57:25,092 --> 02:57:28,929
you know, we make an irrational choice
and that was my case.

3336
02:57:29,263 --> 02:57:31,724
It was an irrational choice
and my old went with it.

3337
02:57:32,600 --> 02:57:38,147
It's a very easy transition
to go from hacker to vendor

3338
02:57:38,356 --> 02:57:41,525
because you already know about encryption,
you already know about,

3339
02:57:41,859 --> 02:57:44,945
you know infosec, you already know
about a lot of these things.

3340
02:57:45,279 --> 02:57:48,157
So it's it's
not a difficult transition to do.

3341
02:57:48,658 --> 02:57:51,577
And my whole goal
was really to show people like,

3342
02:57:52,953 --> 02:57:54,914
I hope you know, you know, because

3343
02:57:55,873 --> 02:57:57,541
it's not beneficial and

3344
02:57:57,541 --> 02:58:01,003
you had pointed out
like the money that you make is

3345
02:58:02,088 --> 02:58:03,339
pathetic in comparison.

3346
02:58:03,339 --> 02:58:07,301
You know, like go learn
how to break into systems

3347
02:58:07,802 --> 02:58:11,806
go to def Con,
do the black bag black bag challenge and,

3348
02:58:11,806 --> 02:58:16,227
you know, get a company that's, you know,
trying to recruit you for $150,000.

3349
02:58:16,227 --> 02:58:17,353
Year,

3350
02:58:18,020 --> 02:58:18,312
you'll be.

3351
02:58:18,312 --> 02:58:19,939
Much better. Off

3352
02:58:22,358 --> 02:58:25,569
or make a podcast, you know.

3353
02:58:26,779 --> 02:58:29,240
So I think we're running on time here.

3354
02:58:29,240 --> 02:58:32,868
So I'm going to cap it with
some of the stuff you said in your talk,

3355
02:58:32,868 --> 02:58:36,706
you know, such as staying on prison
and getting out early and six month

3356
02:58:36,997 --> 02:58:40,459
and But I want to leave you with a last
thought here.

3357
02:58:40,459 --> 02:58:40,835
Maybe.

3358
02:58:40,835 --> 02:58:45,756
And maybe it's the one you could take our
where you to go.

3359
02:58:45,756 --> 02:58:48,342
But I give you a thought
bubble to get started with

3360
02:58:49,552 --> 02:58:52,972
which, you
know, is there such thing as perfect opsec

3361
02:58:52,972 --> 02:58:56,684
and does it matter
when you're breaking the law?

3362
02:58:59,228 --> 02:59:05,776
So I think I think at the end of the day,
there's definitely so

3363
02:59:05,818 --> 02:59:10,322
I mean, that's basically like saying
can one army be better than the.

3364
02:59:11,240 --> 02:59:13,409
And the obvious answer to that is yes.

3365
02:59:13,409 --> 02:59:16,287
I don't think there's such thing
as 100% secure.

3366
02:59:16,954 --> 02:59:19,039
I think anyone

3367
02:59:19,582 --> 02:59:21,041
and it tries to sell those

3368
02:59:21,041 --> 02:59:23,627
wolf tickets is, you know,

3369
02:59:24,670 --> 02:59:27,882
ignorant to security.

3370
02:59:27,882 --> 02:59:29,759
But I definitely think that one army

3371
02:59:29,759 --> 02:59:31,427
can overcome.

3372
02:59:33,596 --> 02:59:35,681
And that's that's
that's essentially what it is.

3373
02:59:35,890 --> 02:59:37,725
It's two opposing forces.

3374
02:59:37,725 --> 02:59:41,645
You know, how good are your moves in
comparison to your enemies?

3375
02:59:41,812 --> 02:59:42,980
You're playing chess.

3376
02:59:42,980 --> 02:59:45,149
One of you is going to win,

3377
02:59:45,733 --> 02:59:47,651
you know, like it's
not always going to be a stalemate.

3378
02:59:49,695 --> 02:59:51,697
And like there's evidence of that.

3379
02:59:51,697 --> 02:59:53,783
I would say no. At the end of the day,

3380
02:59:54,950 --> 02:59:57,661
I met a ton of drug traffickers
in federal prison.

3381
02:59:57,912 --> 03:00:02,166
Not surprising, considering the fact
that like some like 70% of people

3382
03:00:02,333 --> 03:00:04,543
are in federal prison are there for drugs

3383
03:00:05,461 --> 03:00:07,254
or drug trafficking.

3384
03:00:08,130 --> 03:00:10,257
I didn't meet one Darknet.

3385
03:00:12,968 --> 03:00:14,887
But I bet as well

3386
03:00:14,887 --> 03:00:18,098
you weren't went there that long.

3387
03:00:18,307 --> 03:00:19,767
So surrendered

3388
03:00:19,767 --> 03:00:24,021
October 1st of 2090 and I had six months.

3389
03:00:24,021 --> 03:00:25,731
There's no parole in feds.

3390
03:00:25,731 --> 03:00:29,360
I mean, so I should be there until one,

3391
03:00:29,777 --> 03:00:32,947
three, 20, 24 is my release date.

3392
03:00:33,823 --> 03:00:38,202
But because I studied law
and I learned that the powerful,

3393
03:00:39,036 --> 03:00:41,080
you know, the the lawyers programing.

3394
03:00:42,498 --> 03:00:46,001
I learned it, you know.

3395
03:00:46,001 --> 03:00:47,503
And I wrote a buffer overflow.

3396
03:00:47,503 --> 03:00:51,215
I wrote a Georgia page
motion and I sent it in and,

3397
03:00:52,216 --> 03:00:53,092
you know, the last

3398
03:00:53,092 --> 03:00:56,887
the last part of that buffer overflow was
let me out.

3399
03:00:57,137 --> 03:00:58,389
And I worked.

3400
03:01:00,432 --> 03:01:01,392
Well. Nice job there.

3401
03:01:01,392 --> 03:01:02,393
That was the way to do it.

3402
03:01:02,393 --> 03:01:04,478
I'm super impressed with that part.

3403
03:01:05,437 --> 03:01:06,730
Okay. I want to leave it here.

3404
03:01:06,730 --> 03:01:08,774
I think we covered enough for me.

3405
03:01:09,066 --> 03:01:11,193
I just feel for you.

3406
03:01:11,777 --> 03:01:13,404
Yeah, I mean, I think.

3407
03:01:13,404 --> 03:01:13,737
I think.

3408
03:01:13,737 --> 03:01:15,364
I mean, I.

3409
03:01:15,364 --> 03:01:17,700
It's been if you've watched any of my
YouTube videos,

3410
03:01:18,909 --> 03:01:21,036
it's been a while
since I talked this fast.

3411
03:01:21,036 --> 03:01:27,209
And that was mainly to try to cram in
as much information as possible.

3412
03:01:27,209 --> 03:01:28,460
But 3 hours.

3413
03:01:28,460 --> 03:01:31,922
I mean, dude, honestly, we could go on
as like a Joe Rogan, you know?

3414
03:01:31,922 --> 03:01:37,219
I mean, yeah, we, we could go on
for another 4 hours on these things.

3415
03:01:37,219 --> 03:01:39,179
I mean, it's absolutely insane.

3416
03:01:39,179 --> 03:01:40,264
So they give,

3417
03:01:40,389 --> 03:01:42,516
you know,
if you ever run out of gas or like,

3418
03:01:42,850 --> 03:01:46,645
you know, the the one you have disappears
or whatever, man, you want to

3419
03:01:46,979 --> 03:01:50,316
you want to jump back it,
let me know because I will be

3420
03:01:50,983 --> 03:01:52,151
I'm working on a by myself.

3421
03:01:52,151 --> 03:01:54,695
So yeah, it's fucking insane. But like

3422
03:01:55,779 --> 03:01:57,281
but you're the kind of guy to do that.

3423
03:01:57,281 --> 03:02:00,701
You're the one figure things out
and to, like, say, all right, this

3424
03:02:00,743 --> 03:02:03,037
I mean, other people can figure it out.
I can figure it out.

3425
03:02:03,495 --> 03:02:03,704
Yeah.

3426
03:02:03,704 --> 03:02:07,666
So, um, I have a 600 page book
that I'm about to publish,

3427
03:02:08,834 --> 03:02:12,254
and it has all the lore,
all the key sides,

3428
03:02:12,463 --> 03:02:14,924
and how to structure
a compassionate release motion

3429
03:02:15,174 --> 03:02:18,010
so I can empower
all those guys that are still stuck

3430
03:02:18,260 --> 03:02:21,430
in federal prison
to get themselves out like I did.

3431
03:02:22,431 --> 03:02:25,392
And like what the some of the dirty shit
the Bureau of Prisons does

3432
03:02:25,517 --> 03:02:29,813
is they block you from being able to go to
the law library and they blame it on it.

3433
03:02:30,147 --> 03:02:34,652
So like me making this book
and putting it out there will empower them

3434
03:02:34,818 --> 03:02:38,822
to fight that system and get out
then my next move

3435
03:02:39,531 --> 03:02:42,242
as I'm doing that
and I'm at 600 pages right now

3436
03:02:42,576 --> 03:02:45,955
and I'm editing it right now, it's
and so we're about to publish it.

3437
03:02:45,955 --> 03:02:49,124
Probably I'm going to publish
in like 2 to 3 months at the longest.

3438
03:02:49,500 --> 03:02:54,421
But at the same time,
I'm doing a massive documentary.

3439
03:02:54,672 --> 03:02:58,175
I've never made a documentary before,
so I'm teaching myself

3440
03:02:58,175 --> 03:03:03,847
after Effects and Premiere Pro as I do
my YouTube videos and audition

3441
03:03:05,975 --> 03:03:07,101
and writing

3442
03:03:07,101 --> 03:03:09,728
my book and working 60 hours a week.

3443
03:03:10,854 --> 03:03:13,565
I'm closing on a house tomorrow.

3444
03:03:13,565 --> 03:03:14,400
Looking.

3445
03:03:15,442 --> 03:03:17,569
Yeah, you're a high powered guy.

3446
03:03:17,569 --> 03:03:21,323
So like, and I'm still trying to run
my blog, make my blog posts.

3447
03:03:22,241 --> 03:03:25,327
And then after this book is published,
I'll be I'm

3448
03:03:25,327 --> 03:03:29,206
still working on that documentary,
but then I have to start my second book,

3449
03:03:29,748 --> 03:03:33,502
which is everything that you just
I just told you about

3450
03:03:33,836 --> 03:03:36,338
is basically going to be in
that just more verbose.

3451
03:03:36,755 --> 03:03:37,423
Yeah,

3452
03:03:38,716 --> 03:03:39,049
well, cool.

3453
03:03:39,049 --> 03:03:40,968
I'm going to hit
the start button here. Yeah.