We're recording. Sweet. I want to introduce my
guest today, Pastor Brian Mandel. And I think
for the podcast conversation, how about PB and
PJ? I like it. I do too. The pastor just gets
too long. It's cumbersome. So PB, PJ. PB and
J. Yeah. I thought about that as a title. That
might be a good title. PB and J. I never ate
that as a kid, though. I was like the one sandwich
I couldn't eat. I hated peanut butter. Do you
remember when they came out with that jelly that
was peanut butter and jelly mixed? Mixed together.
You probably never even tried that. Yeah, that
made me sick to my stomach to look at. Oh, man.
It was okay, but I liked adding more jelly, personally.
So, you know, it just didn't work for me. But,
hey, I want to welcome you to Living Up in a
Down World Special Edition. We call this Conversations,
and we're hanging out with folks. And Annette
has had another insane week. Yeah. And may get
her in here later today for a podcast, but we'll
see. But in the meantime, and you're not the
third date to the prom, so don't feel bad. So
Pastor Brian, it's been a while since we've had
PB in. So super excited to have you with us as
we kick off. How about a quick word of prayer?
Yeah, let's do it. Why don't you do it? All right.
Father, thank you, God, for the privilege it
is to discuss what you're up to in this world.
we have to do and be a part of in, in what's
happening in our communities and our churches
and our families and how we can be better stewards
of what you've given us. So Lord, be in this
conversation today. We pray that you'd be pleased
and honored and that people would be helped in
Jesus name. Amen. Amen. This is Jimmy, and Annette
is not on this podcast again. I've got another
conversation today, so I want to welcome you
to our podcast, Living Up in a Down World, which
it is our joy to do that. As I often say, we
get to do this. Welcome, PB. Hey, great to be
here again. Thanks for having me. Absolutely.
Thanks for leading us in with that great word
of prayer. And, you know, we were kicking some
things around before, you know, hot topics right
now. But something that's kind of hot on our
heart because it just happened last night is
we're doing a, we're sort of the guinea pig,
a .k .a. beta test group. I call it guinea pig.
For a new curriculum that the Patriot Academy,
Rick and Kara Green, have produced called Rebuilding
Liberty. Tell us a little bit about it. We're
into weeks. We did week three out of four. Just
kind of bring everybody up to speed on that.
Yeah, this is sort of a condensed, just really
accessible version of what they had done previously
called biblical citizenship, which that was a
longer eight -week course, videos that were more
like an hour and a half long, where this has
been condensed down to four weeks. Each video
is only about 45 or 50 minutes. And it's really,
it's like a highlight reel. about the founding
of our nation, the biblical roots by which the
documents and compacts and declarations and constitution
and everything about the formation of our nation
was rooted in scripture and was constructed by
men who were committed to the gospel and committed
to Jesus Christ. History that's been lost is
being restored in the minds of a new generation
because of what the Patriot Academy is doing.
And this just brings it all to the forefront
and makes it so clear, so accessible and so mind
blowing. Honestly, you know, when you realize
the truth of what happened, of who these guys
were that formed our nation and what their priorities
were, it really it'll kind of make you upset
a little bit about what you were taught in school
growing up, wouldn't you say? Yeah, there was
a lot I wasn't taught in school. And two, there's
a flip side to that coin. Even if they had taught
it probably at my age and station of life, I
would have been, when's lunch? I'm ready for
football practice. I mean, so not to excuse it
all, but it's called revisionist history. And
we hear this term thrown around a lot. But what
we're doing, what's interesting is we had dinner
last night with Doyle and Susan Jennings, one
of our elders and just long -term couple with
us. And we just sat down. We just had such a
great talk. They were so excited. This is the
first time they've really engaged in any of our
curriculum that we've offered. They weren't here
for biblical citizenship because they live in
Bernie, so they have to drive over. from there
to be with us on Wednesday night, which ends
up being a sacrifice. They're in the car all
the time getting over here for things, and they
were blown away. They were blown away by this
idea of rebuilding liberty that even though Trump
won and conservatives and Republicans alike and
a lot of independents are cheering because he's
doing some amazing things, but there's also this
sense of there's something for us to do. What
is our role? And if we don't understand that,
we can easily rest on our laurels. We can just
take it easy, kick our feet up. We won, yay,
and all that. But that's not good enough. And
that's not the heart that brought liberty into
being at the beginning of our nation through
the colonies and the leaders, the pastors, those
early, you call them governors, that were actually
over the colonies. the heart of it was we have
major problems in the world. We believe that
God has ordered our stance. So we're here by
providence, by God's will. And we're here to
change our world, not the world, our world. We're
starting and we're here to make a new start.
So we don't want to repeat the mistakes that
drove us over here. So when you begin to learn
the background of that and you realize that their
textbook, Their go -to book for all of this,
where all the principles were unearthed, and
I have a point on that about just even the signers
of the Declaration and the construction of the
Constitution, all that. But the spirit that drove
all of that and what was behind it. It's such,
it was such a fight for truth. Yeah. Such a fight
for righteousness or rightness and justice. You
know, I think one of the things that struck me
last night was a quote from John Winthrop, who
in 1630 is coming over on a ship and he preaches
a sermon. to the men on the ship. And it's a
famous sermon where we get that idea of a city
set on a hill and that message that came out
of that. But one of the quotes in his sermon,
he says, for we must consider that we shall be
as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people
are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely
with our God in this work we have undertaken
and so cause him to withdraw his present help
from us, we shall be made a story and a byword
throughout the world. And this goes on and on.
And he's basically establishing almost like a
mosaic covenant by which all of this work began.
He was one of the pilgrims who came over with
the express purpose of saying, all right. We
want to do something God's way. We want to build
based on a biblical precedent. We want to establish
a government, family, society, civics based on
the principles laid out in scripture. And we
want to covenant with God at the beginning of
this thing that, you know, if we honor him, we
know he's going to show up and do things that
are going to be told around the world. But if
we deal falsely with him, if we forget how we
started this thing, he said, then we'll be made
a byword. And that's sort of where we're at now
and why this. curriculum even is called Rebuilding
Liberty because we're coming up on the 250th
birthday of our nation. And this is typically
in the cycle of nations in the world. This is
where things, you know, fall apart, the wheels
come off and it all just goes permanently south.
And so the proposition is we have an opportunity
now to either become a byword or to rebuild.
And one of the scriptures they talked about last
night was from Nehemiah chapter two, verse 17.
And that scripture says, come, let us rebuild.
so that we will no longer be a disgrace. And
I think that's such a word for our generation.
It's an invitation to say, all right, we can
reclaim how this thing began and start a whole
new season of blessing and the Lord's blessing,
or we can just keep letting it go. You know,
that's a great passage, and you were right on
with that. Good night. All of that. Amen, 100%.
I think about Nehemiah going to Artaxerxes, the
king. You know, he was the cupbearer to the king.
And he had to favor the king because basically
he's the guy who stands in the way of the king
being killed, you know, through something nefarious,
through poison, whether it's through food. So
he would drink the cup and he would eat the food
before anybody. He was the beta test guy, right?
And if it was a failed test, he's dead, right?
So who's next in line? So just by nature of what
he does, they became very close. Nehemiah felt
this call to come back and rebuild his hometown,
Jerusalem, because the city walls had been destroyed.
The king showed him great favor, basically gave
him a blank check. He had carte blanche to go
back, and he said, whatever you need, you have.
I mean, that was the heart of that king towards
Nehemiah in terms of favor. And sometimes we
have a tendency to think that government is just...
completely antithetical to faith. I've never
believed that. Even back in Abilene, back when
we were there, I was meeting with the mayors
and hanging, I was going to city council meetings
and my attitude was, no, if you think about it,
and the way I used to tell the mayor this, I
remember talking to Grady Barr, I said, you carry
the weight of civil government on your shoulders.
I carry the weight of spiritual government on
mine. We need to be partners. If we're going
to move the needle in this world, we need to
be partners, not adversaries. And that started
a friendship with him. Well, they mentioned that
last night. You know, I mean, just the observation
that God created government. That was his idea.
Absolutely. He created the church. He created
government. He created family. And his intent
is to be central to all three of those things
and for those things to overlap. And what overlaps
those three things is him. And so when God is
removed from any one or all of those things,
that's when we begin to have problems in society.
You know, we've debunked the lie of separation
of church and state, which is nowhere in the
Constitution ever. It's not in the Constitution.
It's not in the Declaration of Independence.
It came out of a letter from Thomas Jefferson
to the Danbury Baptist Association where he was
assuring them that we're not here as the state
or government. to impose upon your freedom of
religion. And he was assuring them it wasn't
the opposite. It wasn't him telling the Danbury
Baptist Association, hey, don't try to put your
stuff on us. It was actually the opposite. It
was a protection for the church from the state
or the government, not the opposite. It wasn't
the protection of the state from the church or
from religion. That's the lie that has been perpetrated
for hundreds of years. One of many, but that
is a critical one because people who bought that
narrative as truth, they quote it as truth. You
hear politicians quoting it. It's like they think
they're quoting the Constitution or law, and
it's not. Now, if you listen to what the men
who built this thing had to say back then, I
mean, their perspective was that the church,
that Christianity was designed to be the conscience
of the state, that it was in a sense. intended
to keep government on the rails and be the guardrails
for everything that government did. Yeah, their
words were religion and more religious people,
religious and moral people. Right. That was a
phrase. It's actually, you know, I've got this
statue over here in my office. Every couple of
days I walk over there and I read through all
the different foundations. Of course, the lady
standing there, her name, her area's faith. You
have morality, you have law, you have education,
and morality, law, education, and liberty, freedom.
And so I read these, and these foundations became
pillars that held up. And I love what Rick Green
and Kirk Kammer both use the same words. It's
the secret sauce for how our nation was built,
and it's also the secret sauce for how we will
come back through those pillars. And it's just
critical for us to understand. that God's original
intent, and that's the name of a book that David,
in fact, David Barton's first book was called
Original Intent. And it was this idea that God
had an original intent and he never deviated
it. He never deviated from that. Methods, technology,
things come and go, but the actual blueprint
is still the same. Just like in the scriptures,
the blueprint's still the same. I mean, it's
pretty dire warnings. In the Bible, if you mess
with this, you know, perdition, all that. But
it's the same way with the government. This was
his idea. And I've said it this way, you've heard
me say it a dozen times, that America is not
a good idea that God blessed. America is a God
idea that we're here as steward. And to me, that's
a critical distinction. It is. And so anyway,
back to this separation of church and state.
Once we get that out of the way, we realize.
We're not supposed to be separate. What's that
quote? I don't know if it's George Washington.
It might be somebody else. But it says that he
was talking about the Constitution, how it's
wholly inadequate to govern anybody except for
a moral and a religious people. It might have
been Adams. It might have been John Adams, yeah.
And the clarification that when they spoke of
religion, they weren't speaking of some ambiguous
idea of religion. They were always speaking of
Jesus. They were always speaking of the gospel.
They were always speaking of Christianity. And
they didn't come back and have to clarify that
because it was such a known— It was thoroughly
known. And so I just saw where a judge in San
Antonio, a federal judge in San Antonio, Texas,
just this week struck down the law that has been
passed through the state of Texas, through our
Governor Abbott in the House and Senate, that—
Every classroom, every public school classroom
in Texas is to post a copy of the Ten Commandments.
And this federal judge, we're still trying to
figure out why a federal judge got involved in
a state situation, how that's even his jurisdiction.
Somehow in San Antonio is struck that law down
in 11 school districts. It's ridiculous. the
audacity to say, well, if you're going to have
something up, you might as well put the five
tenets of Buddhism. It just is a sock in the
eye. And so obviously there'll be war over that.
There'll be drama. Well, it highlights one of
the tenets of rebuilding liberty that they're
mentioning in this course, which I think it was
the eighth one or something, but it's talking
about restoring limited government. You know,
one of the things that. haven't been taught as
Americans is the proper role of government, particularly
the federal government. It's intended, it was
originally intended only to exist to protect
the God -given rights and freedoms that we all
already have. You know, God gives us those rights
to us as people, and then the people sort of
hire the government in a sense to protect those
rights. but not to tell us what they are or to
try to change them or to even, you know, get
more involved in anything other than protection.
The Bill of Rights, the Constitution all talk
about limited government. Right. And what's happened
is through the years, elitists, Marxists, various
influences have come in to say, wait, you're
just stupid people. We know more than you. Right.
And we know better than you. We know how to run
your life better than you do. Of course, that
means encroachment upon. ownership of property,
freedom of religion, freedom of speech, all these
things start getting violated one after another.
And once that starts to pick up momentum, it's
like a snowball going down a hill. Well, and
people get duped into accepting it or even welcoming
it. Through the guise of, hey, we're going to
give you free stuff. We're going to take care
of you. We're going to provide for you. We're
going to make it so you don't have to worry about
anything. Here's a compensation check, you know,
$1 ,200. Like, that's going to fix all of this.
Nothing's free, though. Nothing's free. You accept
that, and then the next thing you know, you've
given away things that are far more important.
Which we obviously saw during the COVID debacle.
I mean, it was like, you know, we're going to
give you these shots. You don't have to pay for
them. Yeah. And we're going to give you a series
of shots. Well, they gave people something. Fortunately,
not us. They gave people something. We're now
seeing the horrific, you know, the debacle that
was medically and otherwise as psychologically
as well. But again, it was like, this is free.
Well, you become a test subject, you know, for
something that's never been tested, never been.
They broke every rule, every law in terms of
producing, you know, a vaccine that's viable
and helpful. uh just to rush something through
and they made trillions of dollars off of it
so it came it turned into and now now that all
the info is out about it they're like oops sorry
oh sorry yeah yeah i thought wait what about
accountability bad yeah hey y 'all wanted us
to make this you know and we gave it to you for
free so why are you complaining you know well
because of my trillion dollar doctor bill is
because of this so anyway now there's gonna be
a lot of stuff continuing to come out on this
but again you're right nothing's for free and
freedom isn't free freedom must be contended
for and maintained freedom is not something that
the government gives to people freedom only comes
from God. Rights come from God. Freedom comes
from God. And when you begin to remove God from
the national equation, what you're actually removing
is freedom from the national equation because
you can't have it without him. Exactly. And that
spills right over to our spiritual life too.
Freedom isn't free. We say it's a free gift,
but really it has to be contended for in our
spiritual life, just like it is in our natural
life. There's a lot of parallels there. And we
understand freedom comes from God. Whom the Son
sets free is free indeed. But yet it has to be
maintained. How many people have you known through
the years that have gone through a freedom session
of some kind? There's all kinds of different
things out there, whether it's sozo or retooling
prayer. The apostics. The apostics. There's all
these various approaches to it. And you see a
breakthrough. You see they get freedom. Instead
of taking a vigilant stance, say, now I have
to defend and contend for this and maintain it.
They drop their guard and the enemy just re -encroaches.
Well, the scripture talks about walking in that
freedom and that verb walking describes somebody
who lives into it fully, who apprehends it and
makes use of it. Yeah. There's a vigilant attitude
that you have to have. to maintain it well that's
in the natural too so like i said you know we
had this this election things moved our way donald
trump has just been full steam ahead pedal to
the metal i mean the only breaks he takes right
now is to go to the bathroom and play a round
of golf other than that i mean he's like unbelievable
yeah a dynamo and he's doing it because he knows
his age and his time and his season of life and
he knows he's only got so much time to get things
done and so he is like Literally giving his life
away for us. And that's the spirit that we saw
in early America and the colonies in 1774, 5,
and 6, leading up to the war, where pastors were
teaching on liberty, teaching on family and freedom
and faith and holding it down, but also fueling
the fire of liberty. And now we see we have a
president doing that, but we can't coast on him.
I feel the need even just to take a second and
just speak to those who maybe have some sort
of a personal problem with a guy like Donald
Trump. You don't like his character or his personality
or things he says or the way he does certain
things. And he's not the pastor of America. He's
not Jesus. And we don't look to him for any of
those things. The real question is, is God working
in and through him to accomplish? Things right
now that are right. Is righteousness in various
areas of our nation being restored right now?
Are we moving in the right direction or the wrong
direction? Are things that need to happen happening
through an imperfect leader? And if they are,
we need to celebrate it. Are people trying to
get into America or out of America? Definitely
in. There it is. Yeah. So people want to be here
because what's happening here, what has happened
here. is the miracle of the world. And that's
not to brag or anything. It's just the truth.
Yeah. And so what makes somebody like Donald
Trump different from Joe Biden, right? Because,
you know, if we wanted to, we could rip on either
one of those guys. They're both flawed human
beings. They're both sinful men, right? You know,
we could rip them to shreds if that was our intent.
But the difference between a Joe Biden and a
Donald Trump is in one case, you have somebody
who was dismantling the fabric of the nation.
objectively. And then on the other case, you
have a guy who is attempting to bring together
people and coalitions and, and groups to reassemble
the fabric of the foundations of America, whether
imperfectly or not, it's the right direction,
not the wrong direction. Yeah. I so agree there.
And I love what you said. These are, these are
imperfect people as are we. It's amazing how
quick we are to release judgment on somebody.
Quick to judge. I think, you know, Donald Trump
made a, our president made a comment about, you
know, I'm hoping to get to heaven, you know,
because, and people just jumped all over him.
Like, you know, he was born again this last year,
according to Pastor Leon Benjamin, who's part
of the Office of Faith and meets and prays with
him often in the Oval Office. He's the one who
said the Holy Ghost is back in the Oval Office.
And he said unequivocally that Donald Trump is
born again. I mean, there's no doubt about it.
He said, however, at his age and station of life,
he's a New Yorker, straight out of New York.
He's been a gruff, hardcore businessman his entire
life. And for us to put some different level
of expectation on him than we would anybody else
is unfair. This idea that, you know, he's going
to talk like us, walk like us, whatever that
means, who's us. You know, even Christians can't
figure out what us is. You know, what's the ideal?
But already, you know, there's these judgments
leveled against him because he didn't say it
just right. Right. And he didn't have the right
verbiage. Yeah. And people, this is where people
have got to get over this and say, you know what,
we need to be praying for him. not getting upset
with him and trying to correct him. He's a man
on a journey, first spiritual journey. He's in
that, but he's also a man trying to correct and
get our country back on the rails. And he's already
doing it. It's happening. He reminds me of certain
people in the Bible, like even the centurion
that Peter got sent to in the book of Acts, who
was a God -fearer to a degree, but he wasn't.
inculcated into the religious system. And, you
know, I'm sure he had various pagan elements
of the way he lived, but something was drawing
him, you know, and what did God do? God sent
him a messenger to help bring the rest of the
message to him, you know, rather than to just,
you know, proclaim, you know, judgment against
him. Right. Stamp Ichabod on him. Right. And,
you know, you're no good. You're not doing it
just right. No, God has a heart for people. And
so we've got to give. give our president the
same grace we need ourselves, that we ourselves
require. And sometimes Christian folks are not
good about that. We tend to judge harshly. And
so anyway, I love what he's doing. I'm so thankful,
but definitely need to do our part because that's
kind of what started this part of this conversation
is our role in this. And that's what rebuilding
liberty is about is like, what can we do? What
can we do to... be a part of the solution, not
just resting and kicking back and expecting someone
else to do it. So we ourselves have to be willing
to jump in the fray at whatever level God calls
us to. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think the
other thing that came out last night was just
what's happening in this next generation of young
people, particularly Gen Z. We had a... a couple
of representatives from the Patriot Academy join
us. We had Reagan Green, who's Rick Green's son,
who's kind of taking over some of the operations
of what's happening there, as well as one of
their staff, Ben Greisinger. And, you know, Ben's
22, I think Reagan's 26. And then we had Jonathan
Edwards, who had been hosting the event. He's
37, so kind of representing. The up -and -coming
generation and getting to hear their perspective
on what God's doing in the earth right now and
amongst them was pretty cool. What was your takeaway
from all that? Well, first of all, it gave me
great hope that the next generation is in good
hands. There's strong leadership rising. We know
it statistically. People have been reporting
this. Various schools have done research. Organizations
have done research. Wall Street Journal did research
on this. And they're finding that Gen Z right
now is one of the most conservative generations
to come along in decades. And what our young
men last night attributed that to was the fact
that what they're seeing is so fake, whether
it's AI producing this fake life, it's social
media producing a fake world. You know, everything
is so fake. We used to just call Hollywood fake.
Now everything's fake. It's not just Hollywood
anymore. It's everything. And so this pendulum
swing back the other way now to the right is
that generation's rebellion is to run towards
conservatism, run towards what's traditional,
what's substantial. They want to see a cross
in the church. They want to see what a hymn book
is that people talk. And conservative in terms
of in general, kindness and gentleness is the
new rebellion. It's the new revolution. Pretty
awesome. Isn't that amazing? Pretty amazing.
And these guys were saying that last night. I
love hearing that generation talk about that.
We just want what's real. Yeah, I just read this
morning that church attendance in Gen Z has quadrupled
in the last two years. Quadrupled. And now for
the first time, children are more religious than
their parents. Wow. That's like an unheard of
thing. You know, things are happening all over.
I know that Calvary Chapels did another baptism
at Pirate's Cove last week. Another 2 ,000 people.
They've baptized in the last two years over 10
,000 people. I think Unite Us has now baptized
20 ,000 college students in the last couple of
years. Maybe more than that. I think it's more
than that. Is it more? Yeah. That's a higher
number. I mean, yay God, but yay what's going
on with the next gen. I heard a pastor, I'm going
to withhold his name to protect the guilty on
this, but he's somebody that kind of surprised
me who said, this is not revival. We're not seeing
revival. He said, everybody thinks the next generation's
in revival. They're all going to Catholic churches
and Presbyterian. And I just was like, uh. dude,
really? You know, open your eyes. This is somebody
I respect too. And so if I ever had a personal
conversation with him, I might say something.
You said it a minute ago. It breaks my heart.
One of the characteristics of this return of
Gen Z to faith is they really are seeking history
and tradition, things that are deep rooted and
have cultural, historical significance. They're
after good apologetics. That's why you're seeing
guys like Wes Huff come on the scene and blow
up on YouTube with, you know, he's an amazing
apologist. Or young men like Josh Howerton up
in the Dallas -Fort Worth area, Rockwall, who's
grown a church that's now running over 25 ,000
on a weekend. And he's, what, 40s, 30s? I'm not
even sure. He's 43 or something. But there's
this next gen. passion that's coming where they're
marrying passion with traditional thinking yeah
and it's fire right now it's on fire well i have
a theory a part of what's happening here because
you know it wasn't long ago two three years ago
what was being said about gen z was the exact
opposite of what we're hearing right now that
they were the most debaucherous worst furthest
from god generation in the history of america
and it was true just a just a couple of years
ago And it reminded me of Revelation 3 when Jesus
is speaking this message to the church in Laodicea.
And he talks about how he says, I wish you were
hot or cold. He says, but because you're lukewarm,
I'm going to spit you out of my mouth. And it
dawned on me that, you know. That generation
was the coldest generation probably in the history
of America when it came to a sensitivity to the
gospel. And now they're having the greatest.
like wave of revival hitting them in that coldness,
because sometimes it's when you're the furthest
away that you have the most profound encounter
with a need for God. And the most dangerous place
to be is not on the far extreme end of coldness.
The dangerous place is to be just somewhere in
the middle where I have, I got just enough faith,
just enough Jesus to be inoculated to the real
power of it all, which is where America existed
for. probably a large majority of the last 80
to 100 years is, you know, we weren't extreme
debauchery, but we also weren't in that deep
-rooted faith in which we began. We were more
in that middle zone, and that was the real dangerous
place to be because it's like, oh, we're still
religious, we're still Christian, but we'd lost
all the presence and the power of God that actually
gives life to it. which produced a generation
like Gen Z, but then they took it to its extreme
and it ended in its logical conclusion, which
is this is completely empty. This is completely
void. There's nothing here. We need God. And
now it's all coming back. You know, out of Revelation
and then over to the book of Acts, and it was
the Joel prophecy that says, in the last days,
it shall be, God declares that I will pour out
my spirit on all flesh. and your sons and your
daughters shall prophesy. And your young men
shall see visions, and your old men shall dream
dreams. Even on my male servants and female servants,
and in those days I will pour out my Spirit,
and they shall prophesy. I will show wonders
in the heavens above and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and vapor and smoke. Man, you
talk about a world that's groaning right now
under weather patterns and the earth. I mean,
plate tectonics, earthquakes, tsunamis. I mean,
you start to add it and begin to look at things.
You're like, this is that. We're seeing this.
And now you've got a new generation where God
promises that he's going to pour out his spirit
upon them, and they will prophesy. And the word
prophesy, it's two meanings. It means to foretell.
That means to preach. And it means to foretell,
which means to declare into the future. that
which has not happened yet, to reveal that which
has not been revealed. And so the prophesying
is a declaration of what is and what is to come,
what was, what is, and what is to come. That's
prophecy. So it's not just they're all just sitting
around telling the future, you know, like a bunch
of, you know, what do they call those? Psychics.
Psychics. Yeah. They're, they're not doing, playing
that game, tarot reading and all those things.
No, this is, this is the word of God, the message
of God coming down through another generation.
Yeah. And I believe we're beginning to see this
right now. And I'm excited. I actually went up
to Reagan last night and I said, you're going
to be preaching in this pulpit. Yeah. Just, he's
like, thank you, man. Whoa, man. You know, he's
like, whoa, you know, he's because there's, It's
time to let some of this next generation rise
up. Well, and I think we need it. Absolutely.
On the other end, as those who are a little older,
we need what they're bringing right now, and
then they need us. Exactly. That's one question
I have for you is, what do you think our responsibility
to this new sensitive Gen Z generation is as
the church? How do we steward them? and their
hunger well as the generation that's gone before
them. I think there's two pieces to that. One
is tremendous grace. Tremendous grace that we
have. We make room for their mistakes. We make
room for maybe them not doing it exactly like
we think they should do it. Because there is,
even when we talk about Trump, there's these
expectations we put on new Christians that's
just completely unreasonable. And we forget how
we were when we were young and dumb. And so I
was, I'll speak for myself on that one, but there
were people that were tremendously gracious with
me through my foibles and my mistakes, my missteps
and my slips, you know. And so they graced me
along, helped me along. That's good. On the flip
side of that coin, and it has to happen at the
same time, I needed coaches. I needed mentors.
I needed commanding officers. People willing
to speak into you. I needed drill sergeants who
would speak into me to try to draw out the best
in me. Those need to happen at the same time.
There needs to be great grace with great demand.
In other words, we need to be okay with putting
weight on them. They want what's real, then they
need to feel the real weight of what they're
carrying. And we can do that for them. I asked
that question out loud last night. What do you,
what do you need? What can we give you? And the
first answer was money, you know, which is hilarious.
It was a great answer. I was like, there's an
honest answer, but, but they said, seriously
though, we need you speaking wisdom into our
lives and just bring in what's real, not avoiding
us. Yeah. You know, engaging. I think we, I think
we owe them authenticity and transparency in
our faith too. Absolutely. I think they're not
going to. It's not going to go well if we give
them pat answers and shallow solutions. Or a
Bible verse prescription. And religious veneer.
Yeah, here's your prescription. Here's a Bible
verse. Yeah, so I think it puts the weight on
the older generation to re -dig the wells of
their own roots of faith and make sure that they're
standing. in real deal relationship with Jesus.
Because otherwise, Gen Z will sniff that out
in five seconds and go somewhere else. Agreed.
They need to see us alive in Christ. Not just
coasting, not just having a little bit better
life. Jesus isn't an addendum. He's not a self
-help guru. He's not a life coach. He's my Lord.
He's my master. He's my savior. And if we don't
live like that, you're right. They'll sniff it
out and they'll look other places. I think this
is a two -edged sword. Man, I'm excited about
it. One edge of this sword is they're hungry.
They're ready. They want to be led. They want
to be coached and mentored and fathered and mothered.
The flip side of that coin, the other side of
the very sharp sword, is that they're going to
be very susceptible to what comes down the line
in terms of with technology, AI, and all that.
I'm not like an anti -AI. I'm just cautious.
It's not a green or a red light with me. It's
a caution light with me. So that's how I'm viewing
it. I use it as a tool for various things, but
I don't, it's a tool. I'm not the tool. It's
a tool. But I also see susceptibility when there's
great hunger, great error can come in. So we
need to guard the deposit. The threat is always
of potential deception, right? If you don't have
wisdom. I talked about the books of 1 and 2 Peter.
The whole reason Peter had to write those books
is because these new churches, they were in pagan
lands in Asia Minor, Ephesus, Troas, all those
places, Colossae, all those, and they were surrounded
by paganism. And the people they were winning
to Christ were all coming out of pagan culture.
And you don't just drop that immediately. I mean,
sometimes miraculously that happens, but more
often than not, these things come off layer by
layer. You have to be careful to avoid the wrong
mixture. Exactly. So that's why I say it takes
both. It takes great grace, but it also takes
clear teaching, clear doctrine, clear focus.
We need to be clear about doctrine and teaching
so that this hunger doesn't go off in another
direction. To me, like I said, it's a two -edged
sword. We need to live aware, but we also need,
you said it, we need to demonstrate what holiness
looks like, what passion looks like. I don't
want to be a model at 63 years of age to say,
yeah, you need to be broken and torn down. You
need to let your body go. You need to just. Just
coast through, buy an RV and tour the country.
Not that I'm opposed to that, but I'm just saying
there's more to life. It can't be just about
that. For me, I'm just saying for me, this is
me. The drive in me is we're here to show them
the way of what a life that's been redeemed looks
like. And we do it by example. We do it by living
it out, not by faking it until we make it, but
walking this life out by faith. And when we make
mistakes. We're quick to repent, quick to apologize.
We've got to be real, but we owe them a demonstration
of the grace and the power of God. Absolutely.
Absolutely. That is what our generation owes
them. Man, anything else on last night? Because
we could talk about a million things, but we're
going to land the plane. I think this is an important
conversation, rebuilding America, rebuilding
liberty. What's your part as you're listening?
And there are a lot of people that will listen
to this and go, oh, I'm not into politics. Well,
if you're breathing and have a pulse, you're
already there. Yeah. Let me throw in one other
thing that just hit me hard last night. They
mentioned the phrase that gets often repeated
in our culture by power centers that, well, you
can't legislate morality. And Tim Barton made
the astute observation that. All legislation
is rooted in somebody's morality. That was so
good. The question is, what is the source of
that morality? Is it God? Is it an objective
source of morality? Or is it something that we're
making up on the fly that's ever -changing and
shifting? That's it. Because if it's not built
on something objective, it will be built on that
which is subjective, which is shifting sand and
blowing waves. It's just you'll never have a
firm foot in anything, which takes us back to
where we started. This began, this nation began
based on the teachings of pastors out of scripture
about faith, these pillars, faith, family, freedom.
It's amazing. And that's where I'll be preaching
this Sunday. So we're already working out my
Sunday message. Didn't they say that everything
that the founders wrote was found in sermons
from the decades prior? Absolutely. Isn't that
what they said last night? Oh, well, the entire,
the arguments, what they wrote, in fact, the
way Tim Barton put it, which I really appreciate,
he said, They didn't have a single new idea.
This had been preached in hundreds of sermons
through the colonies. In churches. In churches
by pastors. So when you say, when people say
something, well, as a pastor, you shouldn't be
involved in politics. By the way, I'm speaking
at a PAC in McKinney, and the topic is why should
we be involved in politics? Why should Christians
be involved in politics? And I can't wait to
talk to that group and talk about why should
we even think they shouldn't be? who told you
that? Yeah, who told you that? Where did this
come down the line where somebody decided, you
know, we just need to have our little Bible studies.
I love what Alan Jackson says. He says, we've
capitulated. We've given over and stepped away
from the public square, but it's time to get
back in and let our voice be heard. And that
would be my encouragement to anyone. You may
think, well, what can I do? Let me tell you the
first thing you can do. You can pray. You can
pray for our nation. You can pray for your community.
Pray for community leaders. It's easy enough
to get online and find out who your representatives
are in your state, in your local, in the nation,
senators, governors, leaders. It's so easy to
find that. You can just go to almost anything
.gov, but you can Google that and find out who
they are and pray for them by name, your school
board. Find out who your school board and just
pray for them by name. And I always pray these
things. This is my go -to. We pray for truth.
We pray for justice. And we pray for godly righteousness.
I like that. Just simple. Keep it simple. And
that's where you can start in getting back to
and rebuilding liberty when we begin to pray
for our nation again and seek God. And if somebody
thinks that's being political, they have not
read their Bible. Every prayer in the Old Testament
had to do with nations. It had to do with leaders.
It had to do with God's will on the earth. Jesus
himself in the Lord's Prayer, we call it the
Lord's Model Prayer, said, Your kingdom come,
your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
I feel like the word political has just hijacked
the word culture. And that's why I say engaging
culture. I don't even use politics anymore. It's
we're engaging culture. Culture is unavoidable.
And it captures more than just politics. Right.
Culture is the entire milieu in which we live.
And so we're engaging culture. And so anyway,
I'm looking forward to that. Anything you have
to land the plane with? I think you're right
on in praying. And I think, you know, beyond
praying, reach out to and get to know local leaders
and school board members and principals and these
people and do it with grace and peace. And be
an ally to them. Even if they're not doing what
you want them to do right now, you're going to,
we were talking about this earlier, you're going
to get a lot more bees with honey. And sometimes
you need to let the Lord open the door by being,
coming in the opposite spirit of what they expect
and then waiting for that opportunity to bring
truth. We are to be their allies, not their adversaries,
unless evil. Right. Is ruling unless, you know,
I mean, the scripture says, you know, a nation
groans. The people groan when there's unrighteous
leadership. And so we understand that. But you
always lead with grace. I always say, and it's
an old line from a Rich Mullins song, let mercy
lead. Let mercy lead. So be led by mercy. But
then when it comes time to stand, you stand.
And you do that on the shoulders of giants. And
we're not standing so much against. People, as
we are, we're standing for righteousness. We're
standing against wrong principles. And we're
warring not against flesh and blood, but against
principalities. We understand there's a deeper
thing happening here that's not the person that
you're fighting. I have a great example of that.
Joy Lynn Marsaros over in New Braunfels, she
is going into city council meetings, and she's
calling out leaders. who have been operating
in unrighteous, ungodly, and unfair ways. And
she's not going in there to be abrasive, but
she's having to take a stand. And she's taking
a stand under her rights as a citizen of the
community, of the state, of the nation. But she's
not going in there to fight. Sometimes it looks
contentious because if they fight back and they're
violating the Constitution, violating our rights.
Then you have to hold them to hold the line on
that. And I love her example of just doing her
research, seeing where the issues are, and then
speaking to them. But you don't go in to fight.
You go in to change and shift and influence.
Or just to restore truth. But it may be a fight.
It might be a fight. But nine times out of ten,
I would say more often than not, it doesn't have
to be. But that's just me. That was my approach
when I was in Abilene. I was meeting with the
mayor and going to city council meetings. sitting
in on flood, flood zoning meetings and stuff.
I wasn't there to be contentious. I was there
to be a blessing. Well, I think that leads to
the last thing, right, which is you need to educate
yourself. And it's easier than ever to do that.
Go to patriotacademy .com. You can take the biblical
citizenship class. You can do that online. You'll
be able to access Rebuilding Liberty here pretty
soon, probably in the next month or so. And you
can lead a class. You can make a small group
out of it. And I'm telling you, once you taste...
This stuff, it's pretty amazing. Like, you're
going to love it. And then there's books and
other resources that Dale points you to. There's
no reason to be ignorant at this point. If you
had ever told me that I would be excited about
studying history, American history, I would have
told you you're nuts. Man, I'm all about the
kingdom of God, man. I'm here to advance the
kingdom. And when it finally dropped for me that
in order to advance the kingdom, I need to live
strategically. And I can only live strategically
if I know the lay of the land. You've got to
know your history. You've got to know what's
going on. And you want to stay current. And it
means, I said this from the pulpit, we have to
have amazing discernment. In every news piece
we read, filter it through a filter of this may
or may not be true. There's a good starting place.
But let it inform. And you'll hear enough voices
when you begin to swim in these waters. You get
to see patterns. Okay, that's probably true.
And two, knowing people who have already walked
this walk. I've got several people, I call them
boots on the ground, that I can reach out to
and go, hey, I did this with Trey Blocker. I
reached out and said, what are the top three
issues that Texas is dealing with right now in
this session? And he gave them to me. I said,
I'm glad you said that because those are the
top three. I thought they were. I'm just glad
to know I was right for once. So I've got guys
in those places. Annette and I had. lunch with
a precious couple. I'm not going to say their
names or anything, but they sit very high in
government in our state. And he shared things
with me that helped me have a better understanding.
So if you want it, God will lead you to it. And
if you're open to it, you'll find it. But you've
got to take the step. It's amazing the people
that God will bring into your path when you've
prepared yourself to. Absolutely. When you say
yes to Jesus, I'm willing to engage at whatever
level you call me to. And it may not, he's probably
not going to tell you to run for mayor or tell
you to run for school board, but he might, but
maybe not, probably not. But at whatever level
he calls you, just be obedient. Just say, yes,
Lord. Okay. I'm going to show up at a school
board meeting. I'm not supposed to say anything,
but I can certainly pray and change the atmosphere.
Come on. Do spiritual warfare, change the atmosphere.
It's bigger than anybody thinks. When, if Benjamin
Franklin. Oh, come on, go there. I want you to
use the quote, but I'm going to set it up for
you. I'm going to tee it up, and then we'll end
with this. If Benjamin Franklin, who's considered
the most irreligious of our founding fathers,
not anti -religious. The least religious. The
least religious. He was not a deist. He was not
an atheist. He was not an agnostic. He was a
Christian. And we have the original receipts,
and that's how we know. congregational conference
came back together, they were having massive
issues of division. And some had even felt like
we may not be able to get past this. And Benjamin
Franklin, getting older in age, called them back
to something that they started with. So why don't
you read that? And I don't have the whole quote
here, but essentially what Benjamin Franklin
said is he says, He wrote and he was essentially
praying. He says, we need to appeal to the father
of lights to illuminate our understanding is
what he was instructing. He was saying, guys,
we need to pray. And this is what the least religious
of all the founding fathers go to move was when
they were at an impasse, when they didn't know
what to do. He says, guys. pause. We need to
go to the father of lights and ask him to illuminate
our understanding, to get wisdom from the only
source of wisdom. And if that is the least religious
person at that time, I mean, that's more religious
than a lot of pastors these days, right? Exactly.
Calling them to pray and seek God for wisdom.
The action point to that was they heard there
was a Lutheran pastor in town sent for him. That
Lutheran pastor came to that meeting. And they
went into two hours of prayer before God and
pouring their hearts out to God. Two -hour prayer
meeting before making government decisions. A
two -hour prayer meeting and Bible study. Two
hours before they ever stepped in. They were
able to resolve those issues and move past it.
So that call back to prayer, if it comes from
our founding fathers who were the least religious
saying, we've got to get back to prayer, what
would we say to our people today? Here's something
you probably didn't know. By 1815, so what, roughly
40 -ish years into this American experiment,
there had already been 1 ,400 prayer proclamations
by presidents, congressmen, and governors throughout
the nation. 1 ,400. Repeat that. That is so important.
That went off in a bomb like me last night. In
the first 40 years of the nation, there were
1 ,400. proclamations of prayer nationally by
presidents and congressmen and governors across
the nation. This was the most frequent move of
government in any time of need or crisis. And
not to be offensive, but factual. These were
not prayers to a Hindu god. They were not prayers
to Muhammad. To Jesus. They were not prayers
to Buddha. They were prayers to Jesus Christ
and God. the creator who is named in the Declaration
of Independence. And that's not something that
atheists or agnostics or deists would ever do.
Because if you don't believe in God or you don't
believe God's involved in the affairs of men,
or you're not sure if there's a God, you're certainly
not praying to him as your go -to move. Yeah.
So that shows you who these guys really were.
So there's your starting place. Get back on your
knees and fight like a man. That's good. Thanks,
Brian, for being with me. Man, it is always so
fun for us to get together. It would be easy
to go for about three hours. You probably would.
Because there's so much. Go do your research.
Have a great week. Be blessed. Live up in a down
world.